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(Jezebel)   Lawyer accuses victim of being a "conniving spider" who "lured" his client and 20 of his friends into gang raping her over a 4 month period because she didn't cry rape until a sex tape of her was circulated. The victim, by the way, is 11 years old   (jezebel.com ) divider line
    More: Sick, sex tapes, orbital period, Infraction  
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17279 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Nov 2012 at 10:14 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2012-11-28 10:25:16 PM  
6 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org
2012-11-28 10:11:45 PM  
6 votes:

minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."
 

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.


In all fairness, he's obligated to give the best defense he can give to the client, and since the rapes were videotaped, he could really only argue that it was consensual. I sincerely doubt he thought it would work, but he can't walk into court and say "fark THIS GUY - send him away." For all we know, it was double-super-secret-reverse-psychology and he figured the "she asked for it" argument would be so reprehensible that his client would be found guilty anyway. And so he was - life in prison. 

I'd bet anything he was asking for a plea deal and his client wouldn't accept, so he had to go outlandish during trial. It's not like this was a rich client, so there wasn't an upside for the lawyer going to trial.
2012-11-28 11:21:05 PM  
4 votes:
As the father of an eleven year old daughter I'd like to volunteer to take the lawyer and his defendant, inflict a few thousand paper cuts on each and then dip them in lemon juice. That would be day 1. I'm sure I could come up with something new and interesting each day to keep them occupied screaming for at least a year or two.
2012-11-28 10:24:19 PM  
4 votes:
i.chzbgr.com
2012-11-29 12:40:09 PM  
3 votes:

Flagg99: It's not uncommon to be sexually active at that age.


If it was 11/one boy close to eleven, it would be an entirely different story. When this first broke, it was reported that her blood was all over that trailer, and quite a lot of blood, too. Twenty adult men tore the shiat out of her little girl body. That is completely, totally uncommon and not normal.

As I said before, I believe this little girl grew up in an environment of severe sexual abuse, and as a result has no sense of normal, healthy sexuality. She will need a lot of good, intensive therapy to be anything close to normal ever again.

And none of that for one second makes this not rape. His sentence is entirely appropriate.
2012-11-28 10:41:41 PM  
3 votes:
At a rally last night, Houston community activist Quanell X suggested investigators are racially biased because only black men and boys have been charged with the rape of the 11-year-old victim, who is Hispanic. "We do not want someone with a malicious racist motive to rid your community of an entire generation of black men," he said.


/.........
fark you..fark you long and hard Quanell, you race card playing douchebag. And how can the investigators be racists, when ALL THE SUSPECTS WERE BLACK? Don't let the facts cloud your race baiting ass.
2012-11-28 10:39:58 PM  
3 votes:
www.getcampbell.com

"Steve Taylor?"


"Yeah, that's me! What can I do for y-"

i153.photobucket.com
2012-11-28 10:38:06 PM  
3 votes:
earthworm2.0

Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Funny how you're blaming HER parents and not, you know, the TEENAGE RAPIST'S parents.

Is this a new form of victim blaming or are you just stupid?
2012-11-28 10:29:21 PM  
3 votes:
Too bad that he hadn't directed a couple good movies. He'd have half of Hollywood defending him.
2012-11-28 10:26:32 PM  
3 votes:
Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.
2012-11-28 09:15:40 PM  
3 votes:
If I were on that jury, I'd request a decontamination shower in the jury room as listening to that defense would make me feel soiled and unclean. Also, vomit bags placed in each seat.
2012-11-28 08:58:45 PM  
3 votes:
I think we have a contender for the honor of Scummiest Lawyer of All Time.
All. Time.
2012-11-28 08:42:09 PM  
3 votes:
This is in some backwards ass third world hell hole nation that allows people to "honor rape", right?

*checks link*

Texas.

Well, it's a backwards ass third world hell hole, at least.
2012-11-28 08:36:37 PM  
3 votes:
*reads article*

I'm feeling very, very stabby.
2012-11-28 06:40:25 PM  
3 votes:
Regardless. Statutory rape.
2012-11-28 06:26:50 PM  
3 votes:
Given a jury consisting entirely of pedophiles, and a passed-out judge, this is a winning strategy.
2012-11-30 08:27:36 AM  
2 votes:

bluefoxicy: namegoeshere: People do not want to be told that you think an eleven year old child is a slut.

When I was 8 I knew a 9 year old that was~~~~

I didn't know what the hell crazy shiat she was on about, so declined to stick parts into other parts. Another boy a year younger introduced me to her...

People do not want to be told the truth when it's unpalatable. Like how kids hate to eat broccoli or brussle sprouts because they're bitter, but they're good for you somehow. They're food, even if they taste like poison.

Sometimes small children just ... have that spark. I knew a girl that never messed around with guys until she was 16, but since she was like 11 or 12 she's had it on her mind... she grew up uh. She became real friendly with a lot of boys in college.

Unfortunately most people don't like that particular spark. It's unfortunate because when you tell them you saw that spark, they tell you there's no such thing as that spark, and they don't believe it even when that spark ignites a trashcan and burns their house down around them. Often they'll even remain in the burning building, denying it's on fire. For example, in this case, the parents could deny that their precious angel could have been complicit at all, in which case she doesn't get in trouble, she gets to go out 'with friends', so she involves 2 or 3 of her 10 or 11 year old friends, and now there's 4 girls going out getting reamed by guys twice their age.

People value their views and beliefs more than the consequences of ignoring those beliefs and accepting that the world is sometimes not pretty and things happen that need to be addressed. Children are irresponsible (even most adults are irresponsible); if nothing else, the child could get HIV or wind up pregnant by the time she's 13, or (as I said) use her friends to give her parents a false sense of control and get them involved in these shenanigans.


[Whatthefarkamireading.jpg]

Yes, pubescent kids can have intense sexual desires, no one is unaware of that. It's not some "spark" that only you can see because you're so supposedly clear-headed, it's a simple biological fact. What's also a fact is that kids often have incredibly shiatty judgement about what's good for them, and adults have had enough time to learn that they shouldn't be taking advantage of that. It doesn't at all matter whether a kid fully intends to entice adults into having sex with her-- she doesn't have the mental maturity to understand the repercussions, and it's adults' obvious responsibility to recognize that fact!

Any non-mentally-challenged adult who succumbs to the wiles of a friggin' 11-year-old is still at fault, because they're the adults, the ones with developed brain that's supposed to tell them "no, I shouldn't".

Goddamn, I hope you're trolling.
2012-11-29 01:13:21 PM  
2 votes:

Profedius: I am not trying to defend the boys and men in their actions, but the girl did approach them and willing went with them. She might not have known what was going to happen the first time, but she then returned many more times knowing full well what was going to take place. The girl never reported anything until after the video came to light and she was approached by law enforcement. I am thinking this girl had a history of child abuse long before these men and in her twisted mind was ready, willing and able. I am not saying a crime wasn't committed I am just saying there is guilt enough to go around.


So, the precedent we really want to be setting here is: don't come forward about sex abuse because, if you are (even in you're eleven) you're going to get blamed for it- partially if not entirely.

Sounds like great incentive to come forward, particularly if you're already not disposed to doing so.
2012-11-29 10:38:28 AM  
2 votes:

ace in your face: I know 2 people who lost their virginity "consensually" at 11 (to other 11 year olds). Both had been molested as children. I don't think it was a coincidence.


I don't think so either. I was in social work, and worked with pregnant and parenting teens young people. The youngest we had was ten. Yes, ten.

Anecdotal evidence of course, but in my experience, the younger the girl was at pregnancy, the greater the chance that she first became sexually active at an early age at the hands of a family member or other parentified adult.
2012-11-29 10:15:51 AM  
2 votes:

earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.


Her behavior would suggest sexual abuse from a young age. She didn't disclose, and gave the illusion of "consent" because this behavior is her normal. (BRB- need to vomit and cry) I strongly suspect that this child's life has been hell fromm the get-go.

Awful, soul-sucking truth: just like victims of domestic violence will sometimes provoke an attack, because the escalating tension and walking on eggshells is horrible, and getting it over with usually leads to the peaceful period afterwards, child victims of sexual abuse will sometimes initiate the contact, because it will happen anyway and by initiating it they both get it over with and have a little bit of control over the situation. It doesn't mean they want it.

This whole situation makes me sick. I hate this lawyer. I hate this whole town. I wish that girl a whole new life filled with intense therapy and a calm, normal, sex-free environment.
2012-11-29 07:10:21 AM  
2 votes:

The One True TheDavid: It's a defense lawyer's job to do that, to advocate and fight for a client. Any client they take. A professional ethical obligation. If they can't do that they have no business being defense lawyers. I stand behind that 100%, given the givens: a lawyer who usually tells his clients to plea-bargain should be shot.


There is a difference between "advocate and fight for" and "lie for".

Calling an 11 yr old a spider who can lure 20 men into having sex with her falls squarely in the "lie for".
2012-11-29 01:21:58 AM  
2 votes:
Holy shiat, someone give me the 21 names. I've got a shotgun and heavy ball-peen hammer and want to make my life worthwhile.
2012-11-28 11:28:53 PM  
2 votes:

TV's Vinnie: Clicks link.

Sees Texas mentioned.

Closes window.


Not to make excuses or anything, but to put this story in complete context you have to realize that East Texas is banjo-land. Black or white, there are some seriously farked-up people there. We'd be a lot better off by sawing off the part of the state along and east of U.S. 59 and giving it to Louisiana.
2012-11-28 11:28:04 PM  
2 votes:
In all fairness, on the first day of 8th grade I asked a girl if she was a teaching student: she seemed too um "mature" (mentally as well as mammarily) to be in middle school. She turned out to be in 6th grade, age 12. (And she did have a very high IQ.) Point is, she looked & carried herself like she was 18: if she'd said she was old enough most people would believe her. (36DD? Not baby-faced? You would too.)

BUT. If they knew she was only 11 they're legally culpable. Regardless of whether Statutory Rape of a willing "victim" should be a crime, if they knew it was illegal and did it anyway they knew what they were doing. How hard can it be to not fark somebody? Maybe I'm weird, but it seems to me that doing something uses more energy and involves more risk than not doing it. "Come back when you're 16. By the way, do you have a picture of your mom?"
2012-11-28 11:25:48 PM  
2 votes:

The One True TheDavid: It's a flawed system but it is better than some. Ever heard of North Korea?


No good has ever come out of anyone saying "well, at least we're not North Korea"
2012-11-28 11:22:07 PM  
2 votes:

The One True TheDavid:

It's a flawed system but it is better than some. Ever heard of North Korea?


Comparing yourself to the derp in the community tends not to be a good idea.

EVERYONE is better than North Korea, even Iran and Israel ;)
2012-11-28 10:50:58 PM  
2 votes:

naughtyrev: Wow - that's a um, novel, defense . When I first read about this story a while back, I remembered there was a bunch of outrage in the community not about what happened but because of who was implicated. Steve Taylor, defense attorney, is a true scumbag.


Yeah, there was a previous article on fark and I've seen some local coverage. The local community (black) were angry that the accused (blacks) were even being charged by the local prosecutor (white) for attacking the victim (hispanic). There were a lot of quotes from the community calling her a slut and saying this was just whites persecuting them, as "there were enough blacks in jail as it is."

People, I'm not from Texas, moved here last year. I fully know that the cops and justice system here are racist as hell. But this is NOT the case you want to use to try to get "justice."
2012-11-28 10:36:17 PM  
2 votes:

earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.


Sadly a lot of the time with these cases, the bastards that raped him or her were not the first. These people know how to spot damaged good and know that their victims believe that they deserve what happens to them and will stay quiet.
2012-11-28 10:34:14 PM  
2 votes:
You know, it's bad enough that you could find one, maybe two guys who would be willing to fark a 11 year old that was willing, but seriously? 20? Wtf is wrong with you people? And how as a lawyer, could you stand in front of the court and spew this bullshiat without being disbarred? If he would have said that shiat to me, and i was the trial judge, i would have thrown both him and his scumbag client in FPYITA prison for life. There is no excuse..none...i don't care if she was naked screaming your name, begging you to fark her, she's 11. Everyone who did this should be jailed for long and long. Comon people, that's someone's daughter.

Reminds me of that case where the attractive young white couple was kidnapped, and raped and beaten before being killed. The guy who thought of it called up a bunch of his friends. I wonder how that convo went? Esp since a bunch of his friends came over to help rape her. I have moments where i have faith in people, then there is a story like this. Where nobody seems to have any sense of empathy, or a clear mind on what is right or wrong. fark people suck sometimes.
2012-11-28 10:32:46 PM  
2 votes:
I am a defense attorney. One of the things I tell my clients is that I'll do anything I can within the bounds of law to make sure they get a fair trial. But I also let them know that if I can't say it with a straight face I won't say it on the record. This statement doesn't even come close.

Given the video tape, about the best you can do is question his ability to discern her age. Spread the blame with the co-defendants, "They said she was 18." And don't go after her other than making sure the jury knows it was "consentual." The worst thing you can do is victimize her even more.
2012-11-28 10:27:13 PM  
2 votes:
Let's send that acid attack dude over.
2012-11-28 09:59:51 PM  
2 votes:
Blaming the victim? Implying it was not legitimate rape? Sounds Republican to me.
2012-11-28 09:53:39 PM  
2 votes:
Without a doubt, you will read numerous comments in this thread that describe Steve Taylor as a heartless, soulless, unconscionable, disgusting, repugnant, unscrupulous, nauseating, repulsive, deplorable, unethical, vile, slimy, unsympathetic, inhuman, all-around no-good scumbaggian piece of trash.

This would be one of those comments.
2012-11-28 08:53:11 PM  
2 votes:

Donnchadha: This is in some backwards ass third world hell hole nation that allows people to "honor rape", right?

*checks link*

Texas.

Well, it's a backwards ass third world hell hole, at least.


Texas: because who needs to move to Pakistan?
2012-11-28 08:46:46 PM  
2 votes:
...and this is why I killed him Your Honor...

In fairness, in Texas, that would be a perfectly cromulent defense.
2012-11-28 08:44:11 PM  
2 votes:
Ugh. I would like to lure that guy's ass to my boot.
2012-11-28 08:33:33 PM  
2 votes:
Steve Taylor, defense attorney, is the biggest #$%$%^#% in the whole story which is quite a feat considering the others are grown men who rape eleven year olds. 

Burn 'em all I say.
HBK
2012-11-29 08:45:37 PM  
1 vote:

MeanJean: Profedius

For those calling me an idiot even more so those that are telling there was no way she was willing you need to read the details, because she was very willing and she didn't bleed all over the place as some have suggested.

The early reports said she did.

How do you know otherwise?

Were you a participant?


This guy and his conversation with the other weirdo has been about the creepiest thing I've seen on fark.
2012-11-29 03:43:06 PM  
1 vote:

namegoeshere: People do not want to be told that you think an eleven year old child is a slut.


When I was 8 I knew a 9 year old that was~~~~

I didn't know what the hell crazy shiat she was on about, so declined to stick parts into other parts. Another boy a year younger introduced me to her...

People do not want to be told the truth when it's unpalatable. Like how kids hate to eat broccoli or brussle sprouts because they're bitter, but they're good for you somehow. They're food, even if they taste like poison.

Sometimes small children just ... have that spark. I knew a girl that never messed around with guys until she was 16, but since she was like 11 or 12 she's had it on her mind... she grew up uh. She became real friendly with a lot of boys in college.

Unfortunately most people don't like that particular spark. It's unfortunate because when you tell them you saw that spark, they tell you there's no such thing as that spark, and they don't believe it even when that spark ignites a trashcan and burns their house down around them. Often they'll even remain in the burning building, denying it's on fire. For example, in this case, the parents could deny that their precious angel could have been complicit at all, in which case she doesn't get in trouble, she gets to go out 'with friends', so she involves 2 or 3 of her 10 or 11 year old friends, and now there's 4 girls going out getting reamed by guys twice their age.

People value their views and beliefs more than the consequences of ignoring those beliefs and accepting that the world is sometimes not pretty and things happen that need to be addressed. Children are irresponsible (even most adults are irresponsible); if nothing else, the child could get HIV or wind up pregnant by the time she's 13, or (as I said) use her friends to give her parents a false sense of control and get them involved in these shenanigans.
2012-11-29 03:02:18 PM  
1 vote:

Lsherm: Magorn: As someone who done Crim Law, I can tell you that correct play when the case against your guy is this strong is to get to the prosecutor FAST and negotiate the best possible plea deal for your client BEFORE the crime gets splashed across the front pages

How do you know he didn't? He can't force his client to take a plea deal.


IMO judging by the fact that the jury took ten freakin' minutes to return a verdict, blaming the victim, especially as harshly as he did, was 100% the wrong tack to take here. It most likely angered the jury. Pissed me right the fark off.

People do not want to be told that you think an eleven year old child is a slut.

I am thinking that ten minutes was 10 seconds of "Farking guilty" and 9 minutes 50 seconds of "How long do we have to sit in here before we can go back out and tell him he's farking guilty?"
2012-11-29 02:23:20 PM  
1 vote:
Profedius

I am not trying to defend the boys and men in their actions, but the girl did approach them and willing went with them. She might not have known what was going to happen the first time, but she then returned many more times knowing full well what was going to take place. The girl never reported anything until after the video came to light and she was approached by law enforcement. I am thinking this girl had a history of child abuse long before these men and in her twisted mind was ready, willing and able. I am not saying a crime wasn't committed I am just saying there is guilt enough to go around.

"Guilt enough to go around"? "In her twisted mind"?

Yeah sure you're not victim blaming.

Flagg99

An adult woman outside of pornography who would willingly let 20 men gangbang her is pretty damn rare. If you honesty think that an ELEVEN YEAR OLD GIRL would be just freaking happy to go along with it without coercion, then you're a farking idiot. Her vagina wouldn't even be fully developed yet. She tore and bled all over that farking trailer. How can you possibly claim she wanted that?
2012-11-29 01:22:12 PM  
1 vote:

dustman81: If I were on that jury, I'd request a decontamination shower in the jury room as listening to that defense would make me feel soiled and unclean. Also, vomit bags placed in each seat.


Your honor, we the jury find the defendants guilty on all counts, and even though you didn't ask , further Find that the defense attorney needs an atomic cock-punch, daily, for the rest of his life. 

/have defended actual murderers in court and still never done anything that made me feel as sleazy as just READING that attorney's statement did
2012-11-29 12:32:53 PM  
1 vote:

Profedius: I am not trying to defend the boys and men in their actions, but the girl did approach them and willing went with them. She might not have known what was going to happen the first time, but she then returned many more times knowing full well what was going to take place. The girl never reported anything until after the video came to light and she was approached by law enforcement. I am thinking this girl had a history of child abuse long before these men and in her twisted mind was ready, willing and able. I am not saying a crime wasn't committed I am just saying there is guilt enough to go around.


I wouldn't call her twisted. It's not uncommon to be sexually active at that age. We just like to lie to ourselves and say otherwise. The problem is she wasn't legally old enough to consent. She admitted on the stand that she consented and wanted the sex... the onus is on the older party to say "no, sorry, you're too young, see you in a few years."

I don't blame the lawyer for trying, given she admitted she wanted the sex. I doubt he had any other options.
2012-11-29 11:37:05 AM  
1 vote:

Dingleberry Dickwad: Thus you'll notice the other part of my post that lollipop ignored. The part where I said "I could see asking the question of whether or not the parents realized something was wrong with their daughter after coming home crying or what have you, but asking where the parents were like they're supposed to be hovering around her watching her every move anytime she wasn't in school is asinine."


At 11? Seriously?

No, I wasn't "hovered" at 11. But my parents always knew where I was and who I was with.

And damn skippy they would have noticed if I was being regularly gang raped.
2012-11-29 10:24:51 AM  
1 vote:

Verzio: The child-farker in this specific case was convicted and sentenced to life in prison today, and will not be eligible for parole.

And as disgusting as the argument the lawyer made may have been, the result is that the child-farker doesn't have room to claim the defense attorney didn't make every effort, does he?


LIBERTY - Jurors took less than 10 minutes on Wednesday to hand a life sentence to Jared Len Cruse, who shook his head and dabbed his eyes with tissue after being convicted of participating in the gang rape of an 11-year-old girl.

Convicted of aggravated sexual assault of a child in concert with others, the 20-year-old will not be eligible for parole.


Thank you. I feel better now. This almost makes up for the whole Caylee Anthony mess.
2012-11-29 08:45:32 AM  
1 vote:
I know 2 people who lost their virginity "consensually" at 11 (to other 11 year olds). Both had been molested as children. I don't think it was a coincidence.
2012-11-29 04:01:30 AM  
1 vote:

The One True TheDavid: HindiDiscoMonster:

This douche nozzle probably justifies this by saying "My client has the right to the most zealous defense I can give him". There is a difference between a zealous defense and being a soulless evil motherfarker straight from the pit of hell... a very narrow line, granted, but there is a line.

Clearly you don't understand how the American "justice" system works.

It's a defense lawyer's job to do that, to advocate and fight for a client. Any client they take. A professional ethical obligation. If they can't do that they have no business being defense lawyers. I stand behind that 100%, given the givens: a lawyer who usually tells his clients to plea-bargain should be shot.

It's the flip side to prosecutors sending a guy in a 3-strikes state to prison for a long long time for shoplifting a pair of socks. How do they sleep at night? The guy was homeless and his feet were cold. The same for a security guard who held him for the cops: I'd pay for the socks myself, even buy him a jacket too, but tell him to please not come back to that Walmart because I need the job. But most security guards are pissed that they don't qualify to be real cops, and a DA needs a good record if he's going to run for a higher office. Get tough on crime!

It's a flawed system but it is better than some. Ever heard of North Korea?


It's about as good as it gets, actually. It's a flawed and imperfect system because it deals with, and was designed by, flawed and imperfect human beings.
HBK
2012-11-29 02:31:05 AM  
1 vote:

gadian: Couldn't an attorney refuse to defend someone? What happens if no attorney is willing to take the job, is some poor schmuck forced into it?


Yes, ordinarily if someone goes to a lawyer's office, the lawyer has every right to refuse representation for any matter.

There are two exceptions:

1) The court can appoint an attorney. As an appointed attorney, you need a really good excuse to turn the case down. "This client sickens me" is not a sufficient excuse. If you don't have an excuse and decline to represent the defendant, you can be held in contempt and have violated most state's codes of legal ethics (lawyer can be reprimanded, suspended, probably not disbarred though).

2) If the person has gone to every other attorney around and been turned down, you are stuck representing him. It's not an express ethical rule for which you could get in trouble, but it's more just this-is-what-lawyer's-do type thing for the sake of professional integrity. Even the scummiest people deserve representation, so if everyone else has turned them down you have a professional duty to take the case.

The interesting thing about court appointments- if it's a big case, like capital murder or the OKC bombing case, the court will go out of their way to seek really, really good lawyers. Capital murder cases won't just grab a first year lawyer and throw him in the lion's den, as far as appointments go.


/not a lawyer
2012-11-29 02:28:21 AM  
1 vote:
And, let's see, several more dumbasses take shots at Texas, after it's been pointed out the defense argument utterly failed; the verdict is in and the child-farker got life without parole.
2012-11-29 02:00:30 AM  
1 vote:
OK. She consented. Drop any forcible rape charges. All the statutory rape charges will still stand, and the participants could be charged for each instance of sexual contact. They should be out of the way for a very long time, amongst people who hate child rapers (regardless of whether or not the girl consented).
2012-11-29 01:55:27 AM  
1 vote:

queen biatch of the universe: earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Sadly a lot of the time with these cases, the bastards that raped him or her were not the first. These people know how to spot damaged good and know that their victims believe that they deserve what happens to them and will stay quiet.


Yeah, there's been a lot of studies on both the predatory nature of sex offenders (and their ability to pick easy targets), and people who have been abused - especially as children - and not recognising the situation they're in might be dangerous until later than people who haven't gone through that trauma in the past.

/At work so don't have the couple of papers on the subject at hand sadly.
HBK
2012-11-29 01:20:32 AM  
1 vote:

Mega Steve: I understand that everyone is entitled to the best defense possible, but this is just wrong.


Not true. You're entitled to the effective assistance of counsel, not the best defense possible. Whether or not to blame the victim is the lawyer's call. If the defendant tells his attorney to go after a girl with a "reputation," in a rape case, the attorney does not have to listen to him. If the defendant has a problem with that he can fire the lawyer. A lawyer is under no ethical or professional responsibility to be a sleazeball. This was a trial tactic by a farking disgusting lawyer who went to the worst law school in Texas and deserves all of the scorn he receives.

/not a lawyer, but I know a little bit
2012-11-29 01:09:39 AM  
1 vote:

rwa2: earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Sounds like typical gang indoctrination activity. Girls aren't allowed membership until all the gang members fark 'em. Boys "just" get beaten up by everyone as part of their hazing ritual. But gangbangs aren't just for victims, it's part of what gangs do to their own.

There are cases where the parents are also gang members, and are actually there to help as part of the ritual and even supply condoms. Go watch some documentaries on MS-13 and other gangs.


You sound racist.
2012-11-29 12:05:59 AM  
1 vote:

queen biatch of the universe: Holy fark - that's horrible. I was adopted by abusive parents but at least the bastards made sure to feed me. That poor girl and her brother - I hope they find someone to give him the love and support he will need. Same for their biological children - they didn't ask for this happen either. As for the adoptive parents and the attorney - fark them both, there isn't a pit in hell deep enough for either of them. I wonder if the method you mentioned is what is now replacing "rebirthing" Link now that it has had some bad press (some idiots still use it).


The details of the case are unsettling not just because of the torture and abuse, but because of the connection to the "To Train Up Your Child" craziness being pushed by an extremist Christian ministry. From the Slate article, some details of the report regarding her torture, abuse, and death:

Carri and Larry Williams starved Hana for days, put her in a locked closet, shower room and forced her to sleep outside in the barn in the cold. She wasn't allowed to use the bathroom in the house, instead a porta-potty behind the barn. In addition, Hana was struck daily with a plumbing tool, a tube with a round ball on the end.

When police found Hana, her naked body-30 pounds underweight-was wrapped in sheet in the backyard.

The story goes on to mention that a controversial child-rearing book-To Train Up a Child, by Michael and Debi Pearl-was found in the Williams home. Since the book's original publication in 1994, a bevy of child abuse cases have citied the Pearls' evangelical guidebook as the source of the offending parents' behavior, but formal action has never been taken against the authors.


The worst part about this case is that it's not unique, thanks to that damned book. Other child abuse and child death cases are piling up, because morons are following those instructions thinking that, somehow, this is what Christians should do to their children.
HBK
2012-11-29 12:01:30 AM  
1 vote:

HBK: Lsherm: Most public defenders aren't actually government employees - they are local lawyers that work pro-bono. Like your volunteer fire department, public defenders are routinely made up of other professionals who volunteer. That's not unusual.

So this non-criminal defense attorney traveled three and a half hours to Cleveland, TX for a trial when there's a bastion of potential criminal defense in Houston (an hour or so away) that could have been appointed?

I guess it's possible the guy lives out there now and hasn't updated his bar registration.


Well this is strange. There's a different guy with an avvo listing saying he graduated from TSU in 1989 and works crim defense out of Conroe. But, he is not listed on the texas bar website. No name, no address, and not even a bar card number or whether he's been disciplined. Maybe they unlisted him due to backlash, but you would think they'd at least keep his bar card number and discipline history.
2012-11-28 11:58:22 PM  
1 vote:

Lsherm: FormlessOne: Just to ensure this defense attorney can't use this technicality at the request of these reprehensible "parents", the prosecutors had to ask that the dead girl be exhumed so a forensic expert can use her teeth, bones, and other physiological attributes to validate her age. The defense attorney fought against the exhumation, but lost because of the "extraordinary circumstances" of the case.

I'd be interested to see how that case plays out, because a malnourished 16 year old might, MIGHT be similar to a 13 year old. At the very least, it would make for a good Bones episode.


Just search for her name - it's a fairly notorious case here, in part because of the connection to the crazy "To Train Up Your Child" bit, in part because the parents continue to screw things up. They were both released on bail, with the condition that they have no contact with any of the kids taken from them - both parents violated that order, apparently to intimidate the other adopted kid. Some of the media outlets out here keep dodging the "To Train Up Your Child" angle in their coverage, apparently because of its popularity among right-wing religious kooks.
2012-11-28 11:57:00 PM  
1 vote:

Lsherm: Dingleberry Dickwad: Sometimes you farkers astound me. Let me ask you this, at 11 years old were you under constant parental supervision? Were there never times where you and your friends went off and played at a local park or something of that nature for several hours? Or went on adventures in some nearby woods with your friends for a few hours? Or maybe just rode your bike around an extended neighborhood area for an hour or so?

While those are all fair questions, she was raped over a period of months, not a day. Like, the videotape date stamp changes for each rape.

Maybe at that point it's a fair question to ask about the parents.


Thus you'll notice the other part of my post that lollipop ignored. The part where I said "I could see asking the question of whether or not the parents realized something was wrong with their daughter after coming home crying or what have you, but asking where the parents were like they're supposed to be hovering around her watching her every move anytime she wasn't in school is asinine."

I was also partly responding to

earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

2012-11-28 11:56:47 PM  
1 vote:
25.media.tumblr.com

You hear me talkin' hillbilly boy? I ain't through with you by a damn sight! I'm gonna get medieval on your ass.
2012-11-28 11:56:11 PM  
1 vote:

yukichigai: Was going to suggest something like this, but IANAL and you are. Good to know a better-qualified person has made that post.


Does anyone else pronounce that word "EYE ANAL"?
2012-11-28 11:46:17 PM  
1 vote:

Dingleberry Dickwad: Sometimes you farkers astound me. Let me ask you this, at 11 years old were you under constant parental supervision? Were there never times where you and your friends went off and played at a local park or something of that nature for several hours? Or went on adventures in some nearby woods with your friends for a few hours? Or maybe just rode your bike around an extended neighborhood area for an hour or so?


While those are all fair questions, she was raped over a period of months, not a day. Like, the videotape date stamp changes for each rape.

Maybe at that point it's a fair question to ask about the parents.
2012-11-28 11:45:26 PM  
1 vote:

SundaesChild: Blaming the victim? Implying it was not legitimate rape? Sounds Republican to me.


Oh, give it up. Politics has nothing to do with this and Republicans=pro-rape is the most hackneyed retarded accusation ever.
2012-11-28 11:40:47 PM  
1 vote:
While I'm sure there is plenty of outrage, perhaps it should be directed toward the defendant instead of his lawyer, You know the guy there to make sure the defendant gets a fair trial and due process is followed. It's only required by the constitution.

I really really do hate it when people vilify defense attorneys. They serve to protect our rights from the government. They make sure the government has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Any other system is simply unacceptable.
2012-11-28 11:08:26 PM  
1 vote:

FormlessOne: minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."
 

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.

At least she's still alive.

Right now, there are parents here in Washington, in court being tried for homicide by abuse, for killing their (approximately) 13-year-old adopted daughter, Hana Williams - basically, by starving her, then leaving her outside to die of hypothermia brought on by malnutrition. They also had seven other kids taken away from them - six biological, who weren't abused, and the brother of the dead girl, who was also abused. Apparently, they tried the bizarre "To Train Up Your Child" techniques, but only on the adopted kids. They're attempting to worm out of the homicide by abuse charge by using a bizarre technicality to repudiate the charge.

Their attorney is attempting to claim that, because she was adopted from Ethiopia, her Ethiopian birth certificate shouldn't be considered accurate - this is a defense because, in Washington, you can't be charged with homicide by abuse if the person you beat to death is 16 or older. In Washington, homicide by abuse carries the same penalties as first-degree murder. If their attorney can get that charge dropped, the parents then get charged with manslaughter and assault by abuse - both charges carrying far less in the way of penalties. The lawyer's claiming that the girl could be 16, and so the parents can't be charged with homicide by abuse.

Just to ensure this defense attorney can't use this technicality at the request of these reprehensible "parents", the prosecutors had to ask that the dead girl be exhumed so a forensic expert can use her teeth, bones, and other physiological attributes to validate her age. The defense attorney fought against the exhumation, but lost because of the "extraordinary circumstances" of the case.


Holy fark - that's horrible. I was adopted by abusive parents but at least the bastards made sure to feed me. That poor girl and her brother - I hope they find someone to give him the love and support he will need. Same for their biological children - they didn't ask for this happen either. As for the adoptive parents and the attorney - fark them both, there isn't a pit in hell deep enough for either of them. I wonder if the method you mentioned is what is now replacing "rebirthing" Link now that it has had some bad press (some idiots still use it).
2012-11-28 11:07:59 PM  
1 vote:
Link

Link to other part of story, including herpaderp from the black and white community. That town is a cesspool it seems. Nuke it from orbit..ect.
2012-11-28 11:05:27 PM  
1 vote:
The child-farker in this specific case was convicted and sentenced to life in prison today, and will not be eligible for parole.

And as disgusting as the argument the lawyer made may have been, the result is that the child-farker doesn't have room to claim the defense attorney didn't make every effort, does he?
2012-11-28 11:04:25 PM  
1 vote:

Lollipop165: Lsherm: MeanJean: earthworm2.0

Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Funny how you're blaming HER parents and not, you know, the TEENAGE RAPIST'S parents.

Is this a new form of victim blaming or are you just stupid?

That was one of the questions from a neighbor in a NY Times article about the rape. Which of course led to a petition. Which led to a NY Times response.

I think wondering where the parents of the 11 year old are is a bit more natural than wondering where the parents of a 20 year old are. That's not victim blaming. That's wondering how the hell the parents weren't aware of this.


Sometimes you farkers astound me. Let me ask you this, at 11 years old were you under constant parental supervision? Were there never times where you and your friends went off and played at a local park or something of that nature for several hours? Or went on adventures in some nearby woods with your friends for a few hours? Or maybe just rode your bike around an extended neighborhood area for an hour or so?

I could see asking the question of whether or not the parents realized something was wrong with their daughter after coming home crying or what have you, but asking where the parents were like they're supposed to be hovering around her watching her every move anytime she wasn't in school is asinine. 

/lawyer and client in this case should be strung up by their nutsacks and beaten, then buried alive.
2012-11-28 11:04:20 PM  
1 vote:
pbfcomics.com
2012-11-28 10:59:26 PM  
1 vote:

FormlessOne: Just to ensure this defense attorney can't use this technicality at the request of these reprehensible "parents", the prosecutors had to ask that the dead girl be exhumed so a forensic expert can use her teeth, bones, and other physiological attributes to validate her age. The defense attorney fought against the exhumation, but lost because of the "extraordinary circumstances" of the case.


I'd be interested to see how that case plays out, because a malnourished 16 year old might, MIGHT be similar to a 13 year old. At the very least, it would make for a good Bones episode.
2012-11-28 10:57:02 PM  
1 vote:

Karac: My client is clinically insane. To support this statement, I point to the fact that he thought videotaping himself raping an 11 year old is perfectly normal behavior.


IANAL, but I'm pretty sure you have to claim insanity for a defense before going to trial, and someone has to back you up, like a state psychologist. You can't just introduce rampant stupidity as an insanity plea once the ball is rolling.

I guess you could argue retardation, but even that requires an evaluation by the state.
2012-11-28 10:54:16 PM  
1 vote:

minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."
 

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.


At least she's still alive.

Right now, there are parents here in Washington, in court being tried for homicide by abuse, for killing their (approximately) 13-year-old adopted daughter, Hana Williams - basically, by starving her, then leaving her outside to die of hypothermia brought on by malnutrition. They also had seven other kids taken away from them - six biological, who weren't abused, and the brother of the dead girl, who was also abused. Apparently, they tried the bizarre "To Train Up Your Child" techniques, but only on the adopted kids. They're attempting to worm out of the homicide by abuse charge by using a bizarre technicality to repudiate the charge.

Their attorney is attempting to claim that, because she was adopted from Ethiopia, her Ethiopian birth certificate shouldn't be considered accurate - this is a defense because, in Washington, you can't be charged with homicide by abuse if the person you beat to death is 16 or older. In Washington, homicide by abuse carries the same penalties as first-degree murder. If their attorney can get that charge dropped, the parents then get charged with manslaughter and assault by abuse - both charges carrying far less in the way of penalties. The lawyer's claiming that the girl could be 16, and so the parents can't be charged with homicide by abuse.

Just to ensure this defense attorney can't use this technicality at the request of these reprehensible "parents", the prosecutors had to ask that the dead girl be exhumed so a forensic expert can use her teeth, bones, and other physiological attributes to validate her age. The defense attorney fought against the exhumation, but lost because of the "extraordinary circumstances" of the case.
2012-11-28 10:52:46 PM  
1 vote:
This is so very vile and disgusting. I hope those sick farks have their manhood rot off in a horrible, excruciating, and painful way.
2012-11-28 10:52:23 PM  
1 vote:

Lsherm: I'm going to guess by your Fark handle that you have a good sense of humor, are probably a pretty good defense attorney, and you frequently make poor decisions related to your personal life.

Either that, or you're a 15 year-old defense attorney.


Waaaaaaaaaaaaay past 15, good sense of humor. Both my clients left court this afternoon under their own power so I do alright. My ex-wife will be happy to verify that I make poor decisions.

One of my friends had a client get 14 years today for raping a minor. Having your name in the paper for a big case is helpful to a career. But BS like this is hurtful to both the client and the career, as well as to the profession. Just a bad move over all.
2012-11-28 10:50:15 PM  
1 vote:
Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?

with children, I presume.
2012-11-28 10:48:28 PM  
1 vote:

Lsherm: Gyrfalcon: Horseshiat.

I could give a scumbag client the best defense possible without having to resort to blaming an 11year old child for instigating her own gang-rape by 20 adult men. And even without feeling bad about trying to get him found not guilty.

This attorney is probably raping his own daughter if he's got one, and somebody needs to check if he's been sanctioned lately.

What do you mean horseshiat? The rape was videotaped. He can't challenge the fact that his client had sex with an 11 year old. He can't challenge that he urged other people to have sex with her. He can't argue that his client urged other rapists to slap the girl. The best possible defense that attorney (or you) could offer is that the sex, and everything else, was consensual.

What magical defense would you offer?


My client is clinically insane. To support this statement, I point to the fact that he thought videotaping himself raping an 11 year old is perfectly normal behavior.

Yes, yes, the guy is entitled to the best defense his attorney can provide. But saying that his client couldn't tell that an 11 year old was underage, and by the way, isn't a defense - it's inciting the jurors to leap out of their chairs and personally execute him.
2012-11-28 10:48:24 PM  
1 vote:

slayer199: Can we just gang-rape the attorney for this scumbag? Dry...no spit either.


As long as it's with an axe handle wrapped with rusty barbed wire.
Can we throw in the juvies who only got probation?
2012-11-28 10:48:14 PM  
1 vote:
Theory: Lawyer REALLY hates his defendants, comes up with this shiat and laughs all the way to his clients lethal injection? /All i got
2012-11-28 10:46:54 PM  
1 vote:

Lsherm: Gyrfalcon: Horseshiat.

I could give a scumbag client the best defense possible without having to resort to blaming an 11year old child for instigating her own gang-rape by 20 adult men. And even without feeling bad about trying to get him found not guilty.

This attorney is probably raping his own daughter if he's got one, and somebody needs to check if he's been sanctioned lately.

What do you mean horseshiat? The rape was videotaped. He can't challenge the fact that his client had sex with an 11 year old. He can't challenge that he urged other people to have sex with her. He can't argue that his client urged other rapists to slap the girl. The best possible defense that attorney (or you) could offer is that the sex, and everything else, was consensual.

What magical defense would you offer? That it wasn't him on the tape?

And like I speculated before - he probably knew this strategy wasn't going to fly, but if his client demanded he go with it, then that's what he's obligated to do.


No, I mean that the best strategy was to imply that the victim instigated the rape. The lawyer could have argued the sex was consensual--it may well have been the only strategy, although given statutory rape laws it was doomed to failure anyway--but proceeding on the theory that the girl actually lured the men in and wanted the treatment (I think the article quoted the attorney at some length describing her as a temptress and a "spider luring men into her web") was NEVER going to help the defendant's case. And if the client suggested that course of action, the attorney, if he was any good at all, should not have bought into it to that degree.

At least in CA, a lawyer is obligated to give his client the best defense possible; he's NOT obligated to help his client cut his own throat in court.
2012-11-28 10:46:52 PM  
1 vote:

MeanJean: earthworm2.0

Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Funny how you're blaming HER parents and not, you know, the TEENAGE RAPIST'S parents.

Is this a new form of victim blaming or are you just stupid?


That was one of the questions from a neighbor in a NY Times article about the rape. Which of course led to a petition. Which led to a NY Times response.
2012-11-28 10:44:48 PM  
1 vote:
If I was on that jury...
29.media.tumblr.com
2012-11-28 10:42:56 PM  
1 vote:
Can we just gang-rape the attorney for this scumbag? Dry...no spit either.
2012-11-28 10:39:27 PM  
1 vote:
www.badassoftheweek.com

"And you all wonder why I try to destroy humanity every time I wake up..."
2012-11-28 10:35:38 PM  
1 vote:

Donnchadha: This is in some backwards ass third world hell hole nation that allows people to "honor rape", right?

*checks link*

Texas.

Well, it's a backwards ass third world hell hole, at least.


Well the first guy got 99 years, some of the others plead out and got 15 a piece. They all are going to prison with the stigma of being kiddie rapists and Bubba will probably have a great time with them. Yeah Texas totally condones "honor rape" Derp

Honestly though the juveniles involved should have got more than probation. Time in juvie at least.

Also:

"Oh, then it would have totes been the little girl's fault,"


/anyone over the age of 16 who uses the term totes, should also go to prison.
2012-11-28 10:34:13 PM  
1 vote:

TanHamster: [upload.wikimedia.org image 250x333]


That would be too quick. I'm thinking a chipper shredder an inch at a time.
2012-11-28 10:30:53 PM  
1 vote:
Clicks link.

Sees Texas mentioned.

Closes window.

applejack.ponychan.net
2012-11-28 10:29:55 PM  
1 vote:

Gyrfalcon: Horseshiat.

I could give a scumbag client the best defense possible without having to resort to blaming an 11year old child for instigating her own gang-rape by 20 adult men. And even without feeling bad about trying to get him found not guilty.

This attorney is probably raping his own daughter if he's got one, and somebody needs to check if he's been sanctioned lately.


What do you mean horseshiat? The rape was videotaped. He can't challenge the fact that his client had sex with an 11 year old. He can't challenge that he urged other people to have sex with her. He can't argue that his client urged other rapists to slap the girl. The best possible defense that attorney (or you) could offer is that the sex, and everything else, was consensual.

What magical defense would you offer? That it wasn't him on the tape?

And like I speculated before - he probably knew this strategy wasn't going to fly, but if his client demanded he go with it, then that's what he's obligated to do.
2012-11-28 10:28:22 PM  
1 vote:

Lsherm: In all fairness, he's obligated to give the best defense he can give to the client, and since the rapes were videotaped, he could really only argue that it was consensual.


As sick as this defense is, THIS. As an American, the guy deserves a defense attorney.

This is the best the defense attorney can come up with.

Why this client is going on trial instead of pleading guilty and taking a lesser charge is beyond me.
2012-11-28 10:24:58 PM  
1 vote:

Gergesa: Hmmm I have to wonder how some defense attorneys make it through the day. They must be very good at compartmentalizing and just kind of shutting down certain parts of their mind.


Either you get a public defender who works for the jurisdiction or you get a local lawyer who defends pro-bono, but it's part of your Miranda rights to have an advocate in court. These people can't do a shiatty job just because their clients are total assholes. I'm sure they are good at compartmentalizing, but we all are. Back when I did desktop support in the early 90's for people who hadn't ever seen a computer before, I would dream about sabotaging the truly stupid people so they'd get fired and I wouldn't have to support them anymore. I never did, but I sure wanted to.

OK, it's not close to the same thing, but you get my point. You do the job because that's the job. It just gets really reprehensible when you're dealing with the worst society has to deal with. Attorneys aren't cops - they can't just beat people senseless and get away with it when they have a bad day.
2012-11-28 10:23:42 PM  
1 vote:

Gergesa: Hmmm I have to wonder how some defense attorneys make it through the day. They must be very good at compartmentalizing and just kind of shutting down certain parts of their mind.


Only if it's a legitimate form of defense.
2012-11-28 10:22:29 PM  
1 vote:
I am normally a turn the other cheek kind of person, but I am having difficulty not wanting to send that lawyer straight to his maker (The Devil in this case). This douche nozzle probably justifies this by saying "My client has the right to the most zealous defense I can give him". There is a difference between a zealous defense and being a soulless evil motherfarker straight from the pit of hell... a very narrow line, granted, but there is a line.
2012-11-28 10:22:05 PM  
1 vote:

Lsherm: minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."
 

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.

In all fairness, he's obligated to give the best defense he can give to the client, and since the rapes were videotaped, he could really only argue that it was consensual. I sincerely doubt he thought it would work, but he can't walk into court and say "fark THIS GUY - send him away." For all we know, it was double-super-secret-reverse-psychology and he figured the "she asked for it" argument would be so reprehensible that his client would be found guilty anyway. And so he was - life in prison. 

I'd bet anything he was asking for a plea deal and his client wouldn't accept, so he had to go outlandish during trial. It's not like this was a rich client, so there wasn't an upside for the lawyer going to trial.


Horseshiat.

I could give a scumbag client the best defense possible without having to resort to blaming an 11year old child for instigating her own gang-rape by 20 adult men. And even without feeling bad about trying to get him found not guilty.

This attorney is probably raping his own daughter if he's got one, and somebody needs to check if he's been sanctioned lately.
2012-11-28 10:19:28 PM  
1 vote:
Ever known an 11 year old girl? Conniving spiders, all of them. It just gets worse from there.
2012-11-28 10:19:08 PM  
1 vote:
Bad call, lawyer dude.

If you had used the term "legitimate rape" you could be in the US House or Senate today.
2012-11-28 10:18:37 PM  
1 vote:

Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?


On a bed made of money.
2012-11-28 10:18:21 PM  
1 vote:

Coco LaFemme: *reads article*

I'm feeling very, very stabby.


Ditto - that poor kid. Hope someone is saving up for the kid's therapy bills.
2012-11-28 09:58:10 PM  
1 vote:
2012-11-28 09:53:33 PM  
1 vote:
So how does he figure that one 11 year old girl is able to consent and trick people into gang raping her? And 20 people thought this was a good idea to get involved? Gaaaah! Too much wrong.
2012-11-28 08:39:18 PM  
1 vote:
How does this man sleep at night?
2012-11-28 07:49:01 PM  
1 vote:
Wow - that's a um, novel, defense . When I first read about this story a while back, I remembered there was a bunch of outrage in the community not about what happened but because of who was implicated. Steve Taylor, defense attorney, is a true scumbag.
2012-11-28 06:35:14 PM  
1 vote:

St_Francis_P: Given a jury consisting entirely of pedophiles, and a passed-out judge, this is a winning strategy.


He is entitled to a jury by his peers, a bunch of other sick farks. This is an insane truth is stranger than fiction story.
 
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