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(Jezebel)   Lawyer accuses victim of being a "conniving spider" who "lured" his client and 20 of his friends into gang raping her over a 4 month period because she didn't cry rape until a sex tape of her was circulated. The victim, by the way, is 11 years old   (jezebel.com) divider line 222
    More: Sick, sex tapes, orbital period, Infraction  
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17258 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Nov 2012 at 10:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-28 06:26:50 PM
Given a jury consisting entirely of pedophiles, and a passed-out judge, this is a winning strategy.
 
2012-11-28 06:35:14 PM

St_Francis_P: Given a jury consisting entirely of pedophiles, and a passed-out judge, this is a winning strategy.


He is entitled to a jury by his peers, a bunch of other sick farks. This is an insane truth is stranger than fiction story.
 
2012-11-28 06:40:25 PM
Regardless. Statutory rape.
 
2012-11-28 07:49:01 PM
Wow - that's a um, novel, defense . When I first read about this story a while back, I remembered there was a bunch of outrage in the community not about what happened but because of who was implicated. Steve Taylor, defense attorney, is a true scumbag.
 
2012-11-28 08:33:33 PM
Steve Taylor, defense attorney, is the biggest #$%$%^#% in the whole story which is quite a feat considering the others are grown men who rape eleven year olds. 

Burn 'em all I say.
 
2012-11-28 08:36:37 PM
*reads article*

I'm feeling very, very stabby.
 
2012-11-28 08:39:18 PM
How does this man sleep at night?
 
2012-11-28 08:42:09 PM
This is in some backwards ass third world hell hole nation that allows people to "honor rape", right?

*checks link*

Texas.

Well, it's a backwards ass third world hell hole, at least.
 
2012-11-28 08:44:11 PM
Ugh. I would like to lure that guy's ass to my boot.
 
2012-11-28 08:46:46 PM
...and this is why I killed him Your Honor...

In fairness, in Texas, that would be a perfectly cromulent defense.
 
2012-11-28 08:53:11 PM

Donnchadha: This is in some backwards ass third world hell hole nation that allows people to "honor rape", right?

*checks link*

Texas.

Well, it's a backwards ass third world hell hole, at least.


Texas: because who needs to move to Pakistan?
 
2012-11-28 08:58:45 PM
I think we have a contender for the honor of Scummiest Lawyer of All Time.
All. Time.
 
2012-11-28 09:02:18 PM

Krymson Tyde: I think we have a contender for the honor of Scummiest Lawyer of All Time.
All. Time.


Man, and Joe Amendola was just dusting a spot on his bookshelf for the trophy, too.
 
2012-11-28 09:15:40 PM
If I were on that jury, I'd request a decontamination shower in the jury room as listening to that defense would make me feel soiled and unclean. Also, vomit bags placed in each seat.
 
2012-11-28 09:16:37 PM
Oh, by the way? Cruse is already serving an eight-year sentence on convictions for aggravated robbery and aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. But that's irrelevant, right?

Well, depending on what they allowed into evidence, it could be irrelevant.
 
2012-11-28 09:53:33 PM
So how does he figure that one 11 year old girl is able to consent and trick people into gang raping her? And 20 people thought this was a good idea to get involved? Gaaaah! Too much wrong.
 
2012-11-28 09:53:39 PM
Without a doubt, you will read numerous comments in this thread that describe Steve Taylor as a heartless, soulless, unconscionable, disgusting, repugnant, unscrupulous, nauseating, repulsive, deplorable, unethical, vile, slimy, unsympathetic, inhuman, all-around no-good scumbaggian piece of trash.

This would be one of those comments.
 
2012-11-28 09:58:10 PM
 
2012-11-28 09:59:51 PM
Blaming the victim? Implying it was not legitimate rape? Sounds Republican to me.
 
2012-11-28 10:05:10 PM
Back in the day having a self-appointed interwebby Esq at the end of you login meant that you were RESPECTABLE pond scum.
 
2012-11-28 10:11:45 PM

minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."
 

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.


In all fairness, he's obligated to give the best defense he can give to the client, and since the rapes were videotaped, he could really only argue that it was consensual. I sincerely doubt he thought it would work, but he can't walk into court and say "fark THIS GUY - send him away." For all we know, it was double-super-secret-reverse-psychology and he figured the "she asked for it" argument would be so reprehensible that his client would be found guilty anyway. And so he was - life in prison. 

I'd bet anything he was asking for a plea deal and his client wouldn't accept, so he had to go outlandish during trial. It's not like this was a rich client, so there wasn't an upside for the lawyer going to trial.
 
2012-11-28 10:17:57 PM
Hmmm I have to wonder how some defense attorneys make it through the day. They must be very good at compartmentalizing and just kind of shutting down certain parts of their mind.
 
2012-11-28 10:18:21 PM

Coco LaFemme: *reads article*

I'm feeling very, very stabby.


Ditto - that poor kid. Hope someone is saving up for the kid's therapy bills.
 
2012-11-28 10:18:37 PM

Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?


On a bed made of money.
 
2012-11-28 10:19:08 PM
Bad call, lawyer dude.

If you had used the term "legitimate rape" you could be in the US House or Senate today.
 
2012-11-28 10:19:28 PM
Ever known an 11 year old girl? Conniving spiders, all of them. It just gets worse from there.
 
2012-11-28 10:20:41 PM

Lsherm: minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."


And lawyers wonder why people hate them.

In all fairness, he's obligated to give the best defense he can give to the client, and since the rapes were videotaped, he could really only argue that it was consensual.


A much better defense would be to tell his client to find Jesus, and throw himself upon the mercy of the court. Maybe up the ante by faking a suicide attempt.
 
2012-11-28 10:22:05 PM

Lsherm: minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."
 

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.

In all fairness, he's obligated to give the best defense he can give to the client, and since the rapes were videotaped, he could really only argue that it was consensual. I sincerely doubt he thought it would work, but he can't walk into court and say "fark THIS GUY - send him away." For all we know, it was double-super-secret-reverse-psychology and he figured the "she asked for it" argument would be so reprehensible that his client would be found guilty anyway. And so he was - life in prison. 

I'd bet anything he was asking for a plea deal and his client wouldn't accept, so he had to go outlandish during trial. It's not like this was a rich client, so there wasn't an upside for the lawyer going to trial.


Horseshiat.

I could give a scumbag client the best defense possible without having to resort to blaming an 11year old child for instigating her own gang-rape by 20 adult men. And even without feeling bad about trying to get him found not guilty.

This attorney is probably raping his own daughter if he's got one, and somebody needs to check if he's been sanctioned lately.
 
2012-11-28 10:22:29 PM
I am normally a turn the other cheek kind of person, but I am having difficulty not wanting to send that lawyer straight to his maker (The Devil in this case). This douche nozzle probably justifies this by saying "My client has the right to the most zealous defense I can give him". There is a difference between a zealous defense and being a soulless evil motherfarker straight from the pit of hell... a very narrow line, granted, but there is a line.
 
2012-11-28 10:22:56 PM
FFS
 
2012-11-28 10:23:42 PM

Gergesa: Hmmm I have to wonder how some defense attorneys make it through the day. They must be very good at compartmentalizing and just kind of shutting down certain parts of their mind.


Only if it's a legitimate form of defense.
 
2012-11-28 10:24:16 PM

Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?


Even the most despicable clients deserve a vigorous defense.
 
2012-11-28 10:24:19 PM
i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-11-28 10:24:58 PM

Gergesa: Hmmm I have to wonder how some defense attorneys make it through the day. They must be very good at compartmentalizing and just kind of shutting down certain parts of their mind.


Either you get a public defender who works for the jurisdiction or you get a local lawyer who defends pro-bono, but it's part of your Miranda rights to have an advocate in court. These people can't do a shiatty job just because their clients are total assholes. I'm sure they are good at compartmentalizing, but we all are. Back when I did desktop support in the early 90's for people who hadn't ever seen a computer before, I would dream about sabotaging the truly stupid people so they'd get fired and I wouldn't have to support them anymore. I never did, but I sure wanted to.

OK, it's not close to the same thing, but you get my point. You do the job because that's the job. It just gets really reprehensible when you're dealing with the worst society has to deal with. Attorneys aren't cops - they can't just beat people senseless and get away with it when they have a bad day.
 
2012-11-28 10:25:11 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?

On a bed made of money.


Of the many attorneys I know, the criminal defense attorneys are usually the worst paid.
 
2012-11-28 10:25:16 PM
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-28 10:26:20 PM
Sometimes I honestly believe that defense lawyers demand that their clients tell them the horrible truth, and then they do a Jedi mind trick into making themselves and their clients believing the contrary.
 
2012-11-28 10:26:32 PM
Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.
 
2012-11-28 10:27:13 PM
Let's send that acid attack dude over.
 
2012-11-28 10:27:50 PM
I normally hate Jezebel and everything it stands for, but goddamnit, they are right on this one.
 
2012-11-28 10:28:18 PM
Stay classy, lawyers.
 
2012-11-28 10:28:22 PM

Lsherm: In all fairness, he's obligated to give the best defense he can give to the client, and since the rapes were videotaped, he could really only argue that it was consensual.


As sick as this defense is, THIS. As an American, the guy deserves a defense attorney.

This is the best the defense attorney can come up with.

Why this client is going on trial instead of pleading guilty and taking a lesser charge is beyond me.
 
2012-11-28 10:29:21 PM
Too bad that he hadn't directed a couple good movies. He'd have half of Hollywood defending him.
 
2012-11-28 10:29:55 PM

Gyrfalcon: Horseshiat.

I could give a scumbag client the best defense possible without having to resort to blaming an 11year old child for instigating her own gang-rape by 20 adult men. And even without feeling bad about trying to get him found not guilty.

This attorney is probably raping his own daughter if he's got one, and somebody needs to check if he's been sanctioned lately.


What do you mean horseshiat? The rape was videotaped. He can't challenge the fact that his client had sex with an 11 year old. He can't challenge that he urged other people to have sex with her. He can't argue that his client urged other rapists to slap the girl. The best possible defense that attorney (or you) could offer is that the sex, and everything else, was consensual.

What magical defense would you offer? That it wasn't him on the tape?

And like I speculated before - he probably knew this strategy wasn't going to fly, but if his client demanded he go with it, then that's what he's obligated to do.
 
2012-11-28 10:30:53 PM
Clicks link.

Sees Texas mentioned.

Closes window.

applejack.ponychan.net
 
2012-11-28 10:32:02 PM
In his end, he'll get what's coming to him.
 
2012-11-28 10:32:46 PM
I am a defense attorney. One of the things I tell my clients is that I'll do anything I can within the bounds of law to make sure they get a fair trial. But I also let them know that if I can't say it with a straight face I won't say it on the record. This statement doesn't even come close.

Given the video tape, about the best you can do is question his ability to discern her age. Spread the blame with the co-defendants, "They said she was 18." And don't go after her other than making sure the jury knows it was "consentual." The worst thing you can do is victimize her even more.
 
2012-11-28 10:33:31 PM
sick.. truly sick.. did anyone read some of commens on the bottom? lke hat one from poe alexander? god that made me want to fap
 
2012-11-28 10:34:13 PM

TanHamster: [upload.wikimedia.org image 250x333]


That would be too quick. I'm thinking a chipper shredder an inch at a time.
 
2012-11-28 10:34:14 PM
You know, it's bad enough that you could find one, maybe two guys who would be willing to fark a 11 year old that was willing, but seriously? 20? Wtf is wrong with you people? And how as a lawyer, could you stand in front of the court and spew this bullshiat without being disbarred? If he would have said that shiat to me, and i was the trial judge, i would have thrown both him and his scumbag client in FPYITA prison for life. There is no excuse..none...i don't care if she was naked screaming your name, begging you to fark her, she's 11. Everyone who did this should be jailed for long and long. Comon people, that's someone's daughter.

Reminds me of that case where the attractive young white couple was kidnapped, and raped and beaten before being killed. The guy who thought of it called up a bunch of his friends. I wonder how that convo went? Esp since a bunch of his friends came over to help rape her. I have moments where i have faith in people, then there is a story like this. Where nobody seems to have any sense of empathy, or a clear mind on what is right or wrong. fark people suck sometimes.
 
2012-11-28 10:35:16 PM

trivial use of my dark powers: Steve Taylor, defense attorney, is the biggest #$%$%^#% in the whole story which is quite a feat considering the others are grown men who rape eleven year olds. 

Burn 'em all I say.


This guy got it right.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-28 10:35:26 PM

minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."
 

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.


Most lawyers are nice people.

Also, yes, you can tell someone's age by cutting off their legs. Like trees, human bones also have growth rings that you can count. Although, it's not generally the preferred way to find out.
 
2012-11-28 10:35:38 PM

Donnchadha: This is in some backwards ass third world hell hole nation that allows people to "honor rape", right?

*checks link*

Texas.

Well, it's a backwards ass third world hell hole, at least.


Well the first guy got 99 years, some of the others plead out and got 15 a piece. They all are going to prison with the stigma of being kiddie rapists and Bubba will probably have a great time with them. Yeah Texas totally condones "honor rape" Derp

Honestly though the juveniles involved should have got more than probation. Time in juvie at least.

Also:

"Oh, then it would have totes been the little girl's fault,"


/anyone over the age of 16 who uses the term totes, should also go to prison.
 
2012-11-28 10:36:17 PM

earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.


Sadly a lot of the time with these cases, the bastards that raped him or her were not the first. These people know how to spot damaged good and know that their victims believe that they deserve what happens to them and will stay quiet.
 
2012-11-28 10:36:47 PM

Spanky_McFarksalot: [i.chzbgr.com image 499x374]


I like your take on our angle better. Rip out their eyes with septic infested claws!
 
2012-11-28 10:37:52 PM

Harry_Seldon: Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?

Even the most despicable clients deserve a vigorous defense.


Define 'vigorous'.
 
2012-11-28 10:38:06 PM
earthworm2.0

Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Funny how you're blaming HER parents and not, you know, the TEENAGE RAPIST'S parents.

Is this a new form of victim blaming or are you just stupid?
 
2012-11-28 10:38:53 PM

Anderson's Pooper: I am a defense attorney. One of the things I tell my clients is that I'll do anything I can within the bounds of law to make sure they get a fair trial. But I also let them know that if I can't say it with a straight face I won't say it on the record. This statement doesn't even come close.

Given the video tape, about the best you can do is question his ability to discern her age. Spread the blame with the co-defendants, "They said she was 18." And don't go after her other than making sure the jury knows it was "consentual." The worst thing you can do is victimize her even more.


I'm going to guess by your Fark handle that you have a good sense of humor, are probably a pretty good defense attorney, and you frequently make poor decisions related to your personal life.

Either that, or you're a 15 year-old defense attorney.
 
2012-11-28 10:39:27 PM
www.badassoftheweek.com

"And you all wonder why I try to destroy humanity every time I wake up..."
 
2012-11-28 10:39:27 PM
And humanity does it again. Now where's the story that balances this shiat out? Next in news 18 year old hired as pool boy at the playboy mansion.
 
2012-11-28 10:39:37 PM

earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.


1 out of 21 people enjoy distracting parents.
 
2012-11-28 10:39:58 PM
www.getcampbell.com

"Steve Taylor?"


"Yeah, that's me! What can I do for y-"

i153.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-28 10:41:41 PM
At a rally last night, Houston community activist Quanell X suggested investigators are racially biased because only black men and boys have been charged with the rape of the 11-year-old victim, who is Hispanic. "We do not want someone with a malicious racist motive to rid your community of an entire generation of black men," he said.


/.........
fark you..fark you long and hard Quanell, you race card playing douchebag. And how can the investigators be racists, when ALL THE SUSPECTS WERE BLACK? Don't let the facts cloud your race baiting ass.
 
2012-11-28 10:42:39 PM

St_Francis_P: Given a jury consisting entirely of pedophiles, and a passed-out judge, this is a winning strategy.


This is a Phoenix Wright case I'd like to see
 
2012-11-28 10:42:56 PM
Can we just gang-rape the attorney for this scumbag? Dry...no spit either.
 
2012-11-28 10:44:45 PM
Sheesh, did a bunch of you catch Texas in bed with your wife or something? Yes, it's terrible here, especially Austin. Don't move here or we'll rape rape your entire family.

/Opens 40lb rape box
//rape
 
2012-11-28 10:44:48 PM
If I was on that jury...
29.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-28 10:46:52 PM

MeanJean: earthworm2.0

Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Funny how you're blaming HER parents and not, you know, the TEENAGE RAPIST'S parents.

Is this a new form of victim blaming or are you just stupid?


That was one of the questions from a neighbor in a NY Times article about the rape. Which of course led to a petition. Which led to a NY Times response.
 
2012-11-28 10:46:54 PM

Lsherm: Gyrfalcon: Horseshiat.

I could give a scumbag client the best defense possible without having to resort to blaming an 11year old child for instigating her own gang-rape by 20 adult men. And even without feeling bad about trying to get him found not guilty.

This attorney is probably raping his own daughter if he's got one, and somebody needs to check if he's been sanctioned lately.

What do you mean horseshiat? The rape was videotaped. He can't challenge the fact that his client had sex with an 11 year old. He can't challenge that he urged other people to have sex with her. He can't argue that his client urged other rapists to slap the girl. The best possible defense that attorney (or you) could offer is that the sex, and everything else, was consensual.

What magical defense would you offer? That it wasn't him on the tape?

And like I speculated before - he probably knew this strategy wasn't going to fly, but if his client demanded he go with it, then that's what he's obligated to do.


No, I mean that the best strategy was to imply that the victim instigated the rape. The lawyer could have argued the sex was consensual--it may well have been the only strategy, although given statutory rape laws it was doomed to failure anyway--but proceeding on the theory that the girl actually lured the men in and wanted the treatment (I think the article quoted the attorney at some length describing her as a temptress and a "spider luring men into her web") was NEVER going to help the defendant's case. And if the client suggested that course of action, the attorney, if he was any good at all, should not have bought into it to that degree.

At least in CA, a lawyer is obligated to give his client the best defense possible; he's NOT obligated to help his client cut his own throat in court.
 
2012-11-28 10:47:04 PM

Igor Jakovsky: Well the first guy got 99 years, some of the others plead out and got 15 a piece. They all are going to prison with the stigma of being kiddie rapists and Bubba will probably have a great time with them. Yeah Texas totally condones "honor rape" Derp


Hey, this thread is for out of context outrage only! None of this "reading the article" and "citing facts" crap.

Also, I did remove that part after the *checks link* bit... so you know... reading is fundamental and all...
 
2012-11-28 10:48:14 PM
Theory: Lawyer REALLY hates his defendants, comes up with this shiat and laughs all the way to his clients lethal injection? /All i got
 
2012-11-28 10:48:24 PM

slayer199: Can we just gang-rape the attorney for this scumbag? Dry...no spit either.


As long as it's with an axe handle wrapped with rusty barbed wire.
Can we throw in the juvies who only got probation?
 
2012-11-28 10:48:28 PM

Lsherm: Gyrfalcon: Horseshiat.

I could give a scumbag client the best defense possible without having to resort to blaming an 11year old child for instigating her own gang-rape by 20 adult men. And even without feeling bad about trying to get him found not guilty.

This attorney is probably raping his own daughter if he's got one, and somebody needs to check if he's been sanctioned lately.

What do you mean horseshiat? The rape was videotaped. He can't challenge the fact that his client had sex with an 11 year old. He can't challenge that he urged other people to have sex with her. He can't argue that his client urged other rapists to slap the girl. The best possible defense that attorney (or you) could offer is that the sex, and everything else, was consensual.

What magical defense would you offer?


My client is clinically insane. To support this statement, I point to the fact that he thought videotaping himself raping an 11 year old is perfectly normal behavior.

Yes, yes, the guy is entitled to the best defense his attorney can provide. But saying that his client couldn't tell that an 11 year old was underage, and by the way, isn't a defense - it's inciting the jurors to leap out of their chairs and personally execute him.
 
2012-11-28 10:50:15 PM
Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?

with children, I presume.
 
2012-11-28 10:50:58 PM

naughtyrev: Wow - that's a um, novel, defense . When I first read about this story a while back, I remembered there was a bunch of outrage in the community not about what happened but because of who was implicated. Steve Taylor, defense attorney, is a true scumbag.


Yeah, there was a previous article on fark and I've seen some local coverage. The local community (black) were angry that the accused (blacks) were even being charged by the local prosecutor (white) for attacking the victim (hispanic). There were a lot of quotes from the community calling her a slut and saying this was just whites persecuting them, as "there were enough blacks in jail as it is."

People, I'm not from Texas, moved here last year. I fully know that the cops and justice system here are racist as hell. But this is NOT the case you want to use to try to get "justice."
 
2012-11-28 10:52:08 PM

Lsherm: MeanJean: earthworm2.0

Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Funny how you're blaming HER parents and not, you know, the TEENAGE RAPIST'S parents.

Is this a new form of victim blaming or are you just stupid?

That was one of the questions from a neighbor in a NY Times article about the rape. Which of course led to a petition. Which led to a NY Times response.


I think wondering where the parents of the 11 year old are is a bit more natural than wondering where the parents of a 20 year old are. That's not victim blaming. That's wondering how the hell the parents weren't aware of this.
 
2012-11-28 10:52:12 PM
I 100% approve of defense lawyers doing anything for their client, no matter what the crime is. But when I say anything, I mean anything that is not unethical. Please someone tell me he can be disbarred for that kind of unprofessional disgusting conduct.
 
2012-11-28 10:52:23 PM

Lsherm: I'm going to guess by your Fark handle that you have a good sense of humor, are probably a pretty good defense attorney, and you frequently make poor decisions related to your personal life.

Either that, or you're a 15 year-old defense attorney.


Waaaaaaaaaaaaay past 15, good sense of humor. Both my clients left court this afternoon under their own power so I do alright. My ex-wife will be happy to verify that I make poor decisions.

One of my friends had a client get 14 years today for raping a minor. Having your name in the paper for a big case is helpful to a career. But BS like this is hurtful to both the client and the career, as well as to the profession. Just a bad move over all.
 
2012-11-28 10:52:46 PM
This is so very vile and disgusting. I hope those sick farks have their manhood rot off in a horrible, excruciating, and painful way.
 
2012-11-28 10:54:16 PM

minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."
 

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.


At least she's still alive.

Right now, there are parents here in Washington, in court being tried for homicide by abuse, for killing their (approximately) 13-year-old adopted daughter, Hana Williams - basically, by starving her, then leaving her outside to die of hypothermia brought on by malnutrition. They also had seven other kids taken away from them - six biological, who weren't abused, and the brother of the dead girl, who was also abused. Apparently, they tried the bizarre "To Train Up Your Child" techniques, but only on the adopted kids. They're attempting to worm out of the homicide by abuse charge by using a bizarre technicality to repudiate the charge.

Their attorney is attempting to claim that, because she was adopted from Ethiopia, her Ethiopian birth certificate shouldn't be considered accurate - this is a defense because, in Washington, you can't be charged with homicide by abuse if the person you beat to death is 16 or older. In Washington, homicide by abuse carries the same penalties as first-degree murder. If their attorney can get that charge dropped, the parents then get charged with manslaughter and assault by abuse - both charges carrying far less in the way of penalties. The lawyer's claiming that the girl could be 16, and so the parents can't be charged with homicide by abuse.

Just to ensure this defense attorney can't use this technicality at the request of these reprehensible "parents", the prosecutors had to ask that the dead girl be exhumed so a forensic expert can use her teeth, bones, and other physiological attributes to validate her age. The defense attorney fought against the exhumation, but lost because of the "extraordinary circumstances" of the case.
 
2012-11-28 10:54:54 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: At a rally last night, Houston community activist Quanell X suggested investigators are racially biased because only black men and boys have been charged with the rape of the 11-year-old victim, who is Hispanic. "We do not want someone with a malicious racist motive to rid your community of an entire generation of black men," he said.


/.........
fark you..fark you long and hard Quanell, you race card playing douchebag. And how can the investigators be racists, when ALL THE SUSPECTS WERE BLACK? Don't let the facts cloud your race baiting ass.


You're shiatting me?

/also....Quanell X...
 
2012-11-28 10:55:01 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: Ever known an 11 year old girl? Conniving spiders, all of them. It just gets worse from there.


Having dated a few, I concur.
 
2012-11-28 10:55:15 PM
Okay, maybe I could see a "my client was under the influence of medication" or "my client was suffering from a mental breakdown" defense, but this? That attorney needs to be shot.
 
2012-11-28 10:55:23 PM

Brontes: He is entitled to a jury by his peers, a bunch of other sick farks.


Only in England. In the USA, he is merely entitled to an "impartial" jury.
 
2012-11-28 10:56:24 PM
Gergesa:

Hmmm I have to wonder how some defense attorneys make it through the day.

A defendant is entitled to the best defense you can give him.


They must be very good at compartmentalizing and just kind of shutting down certain parts of their mind.

Yes.
 
2012-11-28 10:56:30 PM

ultraholland: Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?

with children, I presume.

 

www.whoateallthepies.tv
 
2012-11-28 10:57:02 PM

Karac: My client is clinically insane. To support this statement, I point to the fact that he thought videotaping himself raping an 11 year old is perfectly normal behavior.


IANAL, but I'm pretty sure you have to claim insanity for a defense before going to trial, and someone has to back you up, like a state psychologist. You can't just introduce rampant stupidity as an insanity plea once the ball is rolling.

I guess you could argue retardation, but even that requires an evaluation by the state.
 
2012-11-28 10:58:01 PM

RatMaster999: AverageAmericanGuy: Ever known an 11 year old girl? Conniving spiders, all of them. It just gets worse from there.

Having dated a few, I concur.


'If you don't let me ride the merry go round, I'm gonna tell my mommy about you'
'If you don't buy me an ice cream cone, I'm gonna tell my mommy about you'

Jeez, it's like these kids know how to manipulate the system from birth.
 
2012-11-28 10:59:26 PM

FormlessOne: Just to ensure this defense attorney can't use this technicality at the request of these reprehensible "parents", the prosecutors had to ask that the dead girl be exhumed so a forensic expert can use her teeth, bones, and other physiological attributes to validate her age. The defense attorney fought against the exhumation, but lost because of the "extraordinary circumstances" of the case.


I'd be interested to see how that case plays out, because a malnourished 16 year old might, MIGHT be similar to a 13 year old. At the very least, it would make for a good Bones episode.
 
2012-11-28 10:59:32 PM

Bit'O'Gristle: You know, it's bad enough that you could find one, maybe two guys who would be willing to fark a 11 year old that was willing, but seriously? 20? Wtf is wrong with you people? And how as a lawyer, could you stand in front of the court and spew this bullshiat without being disbarred? If he would have said that shiat to me, and i was the trial judge, i would have thrown both him and his scumbag client in FPYITA prison for life. There is no excuse..none...i don't care if she was naked screaming your name, begging you to fark her, she's 11. Everyone who did this should be jailed for long and long. Comon people, that's someone's daughter.

Reminds me of that case where the attractive young white couple was kidnapped, and raped and beaten before being killed. The guy who thought of it called up a bunch of his friends. I wonder how that convo went? Esp since a bunch of his friends came over to help rape her. I have moments where i have faith in people, then there is a story like this. Where nobody seems to have any sense of empathy, or a clear mind on what is right or wrong. fark people suck sometimes.


Yeah that has me stumped too - 20?!?!?!

Can they even find 12 peeps in the community who were NOT involved to be on the jury?

Scum - is about the only word that comes to mind.
 
2012-11-28 11:00:28 PM

Lollipop165: As sick as this defense is, THIS. As an American, the guy deserves a defense attorney.

This is the best the defense attorney can come up with.


This isn't a "defense."

In fact, this is "offense." As in, it's offensive. And it's slander.

Which is part of the problem with the US... our system relies upon slander as much as actual evidence. Everyone should have the right to an attorney and a defense, but we allow the law to become a f*cking joke with this kind of stuff.
 
2012-11-28 11:01:37 PM

pciszek: Brontes: He is entitled to a jury by his peers, a bunch of other sick farks.

Only in England. In the USA, he is merely entitled to an "impartial" jury.


I was going to say WUT? and then I Google and found an awesome site confirming you are correct!

Things That Are Not In the U.S. Constitution
 
2012-11-28 11:04:20 PM
pbfcomics.com
 
2012-11-28 11:04:25 PM

Lollipop165: Lsherm: MeanJean: earthworm2.0

Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Funny how you're blaming HER parents and not, you know, the TEENAGE RAPIST'S parents.

Is this a new form of victim blaming or are you just stupid?

That was one of the questions from a neighbor in a NY Times article about the rape. Which of course led to a petition. Which led to a NY Times response.

I think wondering where the parents of the 11 year old are is a bit more natural than wondering where the parents of a 20 year old are. That's not victim blaming. That's wondering how the hell the parents weren't aware of this.


Sometimes you farkers astound me. Let me ask you this, at 11 years old were you under constant parental supervision? Were there never times where you and your friends went off and played at a local park or something of that nature for several hours? Or went on adventures in some nearby woods with your friends for a few hours? Or maybe just rode your bike around an extended neighborhood area for an hour or so?

I could see asking the question of whether or not the parents realized something was wrong with their daughter after coming home crying or what have you, but asking where the parents were like they're supposed to be hovering around her watching her every move anytime she wasn't in school is asinine. 

/lawyer and client in this case should be strung up by their nutsacks and beaten, then buried alive.
 
2012-11-28 11:04:58 PM

trivial use of my dark powers: Steve Taylor, defense attorney, is the biggest #$%$%^#% in the whole story which is quite a feat considering the others are grown men who rape eleven year olds. 

Burn 'em all I say.


Everyone is entitled to a zealous defense. I'm sure the lawyer is taking great pleasure in raping the wallet of the defendant.
 
2012-11-28 11:05:27 PM
The child-farker in this specific case was convicted and sentenced to life in prison today, and will not be eligible for parole.

And as disgusting as the argument the lawyer made may have been, the result is that the child-farker doesn't have room to claim the defense attorney didn't make every effort, does he?
 
2012-11-28 11:07:59 PM
Link

Link to other part of story, including herpaderp from the black and white community. That town is a cesspool it seems. Nuke it from orbit..ect.
 
2012-11-28 11:08:26 PM

FormlessOne: minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."
 

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.

At least she's still alive.

Right now, there are parents here in Washington, in court being tried for homicide by abuse, for killing their (approximately) 13-year-old adopted daughter, Hana Williams - basically, by starving her, then leaving her outside to die of hypothermia brought on by malnutrition. They also had seven other kids taken away from them - six biological, who weren't abused, and the brother of the dead girl, who was also abused. Apparently, they tried the bizarre "To Train Up Your Child" techniques, but only on the adopted kids. They're attempting to worm out of the homicide by abuse charge by using a bizarre technicality to repudiate the charge.

Their attorney is attempting to claim that, because she was adopted from Ethiopia, her Ethiopian birth certificate shouldn't be considered accurate - this is a defense because, in Washington, you can't be charged with homicide by abuse if the person you beat to death is 16 or older. In Washington, homicide by abuse carries the same penalties as first-degree murder. If their attorney can get that charge dropped, the parents then get charged with manslaughter and assault by abuse - both charges carrying far less in the way of penalties. The lawyer's claiming that the girl could be 16, and so the parents can't be charged with homicide by abuse.

Just to ensure this defense attorney can't use this technicality at the request of these reprehensible "parents", the prosecutors had to ask that the dead girl be exhumed so a forensic expert can use her teeth, bones, and other physiological attributes to validate her age. The defense attorney fought against the exhumation, but lost because of the "extraordinary circumstances" of the case.


Holy fark - that's horrible. I was adopted by abusive parents but at least the bastards made sure to feed me. That poor girl and her brother - I hope they find someone to give him the love and support he will need. Same for their biological children - they didn't ask for this happen either. As for the adoptive parents and the attorney - fark them both, there isn't a pit in hell deep enough for either of them. I wonder if the method you mentioned is what is now replacing "rebirthing" Link now that it has had some bad press (some idiots still use it).
 
2012-11-28 11:08:26 PM
HindiDiscoMonster:

This douche nozzle probably justifies this by saying "My client has the right to the most zealous defense I can give him". There is a difference between a zealous defense and being a soulless evil motherfarker straight from the pit of hell... a very narrow line, granted, but there is a line.

Clearly you don't understand how the American "justice" system works.

It's a defense lawyer's job to do that, to advocate and fight for a client. Any client they take. A professional ethical obligation. If they can't do that they have no business being defense lawyers. I stand behind that 100%, given the givens: a lawyer who usually tells his clients to plea-bargain should be shot.

It's the flip side to prosecutors sending a guy in a 3-strikes state to prison for a long long time for shoplifting a pair of socks. How do they sleep at night? The guy was homeless and his feet were cold. The same for a security guard who held him for the cops: I'd pay for the socks myself, even buy him a jacket too, but tell him to please not come back to that Walmart because I need the job. But most security guards are pissed that they don't qualify to be real cops, and a DA needs a good record if he's going to run for a higher office. Get tough on crime!

It's a flawed system but it is better than some. Ever heard of North Korea?
 
2012-11-28 11:11:50 PM

MeanJean: earthworm2.0

Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Funny how you're blaming HER parents and not, you know, the TEENAGE RAPIST'S parents.

Is this a new form of victim blaming or are you just stupid?


I wonder where her parents were too. This was over a 4 month period. If I had a child I can't imagine not being trusted enough for her tell me that she had been assaulted by 20 men. Or at least notice that she sloshed when she walked by.
 
2012-11-28 11:14:51 PM
But what if he's right?
 
2012-11-28 11:17:14 PM
Gergesa:
Hmmm I have to wonder how some defense attorneys make it through the day. They must be very good at compartmentalizing and just kind of shutting down certain parts of their mind.

"Every shiatbag is entitled to a competent defense". That said, this sounds like a lousy defense as well as being a morally deplorable argument.
 
2012-11-28 11:21:05 PM
As the father of an eleven year old daughter I'd like to volunteer to take the lawyer and his defendant, inflict a few thousand paper cuts on each and then dip them in lemon juice. That would be day 1. I'm sure I could come up with something new and interesting each day to keep them occupied screaming for at least a year or two.
 
2012-11-28 11:21:15 PM

Dingleberry Dickwad: Lollipop165: Lsherm: MeanJean: earthworm2.0

Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Funny how you're blaming HER parents and not, you know, the TEENAGE RAPIST'S parents.

Is this a new form of victim blaming or are you just stupid?

That was one of the questions from a neighbor in a NY Times article about the rape. Which of course led to a petition. Which led to a NY Times response.

I think wondering where the parents of the 11 year old are is a bit more natural than wondering where the parents of a 20 year old are. That's not victim blaming. That's wondering how the hell the parents weren't aware of this.

Sometimes you farkers astound me. Let me ask you this, at 11 years old were you under constant parental supervision? Were there never times where you and your friends went off and played at a local park or something of that nature for several hours? Or went on adventures in some nearby woods with your friends for a few hours? Or maybe just rode your bike around an extended neighborhood area for an hour or so?

I could see asking the question of whether or not the parents realized something was wrong with their daughter after coming home crying or what have you, but asking where the parents were like they're supposed to be hovering around her watching her every move anytime she wasn't in school is asinine. 

/lawyer and client in this case should be strung up by their nutsacks and beaten, then buried alive.


Um, at 11? I think my parents would know something was wrong if for 4 months I had been regularly raped by 20+ men who were videotaping it.

I have a big feeling mom and dad were pretty neglectful and THAT needs to be looked into as well. She may have siblings. It IS a logical concern.
 
2012-11-28 11:22:07 PM

The One True TheDavid:

It's a flawed system but it is better than some. Ever heard of North Korea?


Comparing yourself to the derp in the community tends not to be a good idea.

EVERYONE is better than North Korea, even Iran and Israel ;)
 
2012-11-28 11:24:15 PM
So every one of the accused is black? What a shocking development. Must have been all that marijuana and jazz music
 
2012-11-28 11:24:35 PM

John Buck 41: Harry_Seldon: Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?

Even the most despicable clients deserve a vigorous defense.

Define 'vigorous'.


A tug job from your girlfriend's sister after she was dumped by her husband for a younger man?
 
2012-11-28 11:25:48 PM

The One True TheDavid: It's a flawed system but it is better than some. Ever heard of North Korea?


No good has ever come out of anyone saying "well, at least we're not North Korea"
 
2012-11-28 11:28:04 PM
In all fairness, on the first day of 8th grade I asked a girl if she was a teaching student: she seemed too um "mature" (mentally as well as mammarily) to be in middle school. She turned out to be in 6th grade, age 12. (And she did have a very high IQ.) Point is, she looked & carried herself like she was 18: if she'd said she was old enough most people would believe her. (36DD? Not baby-faced? You would too.)

BUT. If they knew she was only 11 they're legally culpable. Regardless of whether Statutory Rape of a willing "victim" should be a crime, if they knew it was illegal and did it anyway they knew what they were doing. How hard can it be to not fark somebody? Maybe I'm weird, but it seems to me that doing something uses more energy and involves more risk than not doing it. "Come back when you're 16. By the way, do you have a picture of your mom?"
 
2012-11-28 11:28:53 PM

TV's Vinnie: Clicks link.

Sees Texas mentioned.

Closes window.


Not to make excuses or anything, but to put this story in complete context you have to realize that East Texas is banjo-land. Black or white, there are some seriously farked-up people there. We'd be a lot better off by sawing off the part of the state along and east of U.S. 59 and giving it to Louisiana.
 
2012-11-28 11:30:00 PM

Anderson's Pooper: I am a defense attorney. One of the things I tell my clients is that I'll do anything I can within the bounds of law to make sure they get a fair trial. But I also let them know that if I can't say it with a straight face I won't say it on the record. This statement doesn't even come close.

Given the video tape, about the best you can do is question his ability to discern her age. Spread the blame with the co-defendants, "They said she was 18." And don't go after her other than making sure the jury knows it was "consentual." The worst thing you can do is victimize her even more.


Was going to suggest something like this, but IANAL and you are. Good to know a better-qualified person has made that post.
 
2012-11-28 11:30:04 PM
I have the perfect pics for this thread, but luckily I already used them. Ok maybe one:
files.animatedsuperheroes.com
 
2012-11-28 11:32:03 PM

RatMaster999: AverageAmericanGuy:

Ever known an 11 year old girl? Conniving spiders, all of them. It just gets worse from there.

Having dated a few, I concur.


Pics or it didn't happen!1!

(This IS Fark, y'know.)
 
2012-11-28 11:32:17 PM
That sucks, but the rapist does have the RIGHT to an attorney, and that unfortunate attorney is obligated to give the best defense possible. Still makes me sick, and I don't think it will work.
 
2012-11-28 11:38:07 PM

Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?


With the light on and one eye open if he has the sense to poor piss out of a boot.
 
2012-11-28 11:40:47 PM
While I'm sure there is plenty of outrage, perhaps it should be directed toward the defendant instead of his lawyer, You know the guy there to make sure the defendant gets a fair trial and due process is followed. It's only required by the constitution.

I really really do hate it when people vilify defense attorneys. They serve to protect our rights from the government. They make sure the government has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Any other system is simply unacceptable.
 
2012-11-28 11:43:04 PM
I was involved in a case with a 9 year old. The kid was asked how often her dad raped her and her answer was "hundreds and thousands". The lawyer actually tried to discredit and brow beat her because, and I quote "well, was it hundreds or thousands?"
 
2012-11-28 11:43:54 PM

Lsherm: Oh, by the way? Cruse is already serving an eight-year sentence on convictions for aggravated robbery and aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. But that's irrelevant, right?

Well, depending on what they allowed into evidence, it could be irrelevant.


It is irrelevant, Unless that robbery and assault had something to do with the current case no sane judge would allow it to be brought into evidence as its an easy appeal for the defendant.
 
2012-11-28 11:45:26 PM

SundaesChild: Blaming the victim? Implying it was not legitimate rape? Sounds Republican to me.


Oh, give it up. Politics has nothing to do with this and Republicans=pro-rape is the most hackneyed retarded accusation ever.
 
HBK
2012-11-28 11:46:12 PM
The only "Steve Taylor" currently eligible to practice law in Texas is an-at-least 61 year old attorney who claims to office in New Braunfels (three and a half hours away) and specializes in Real Estate.

It's odd a real estate guy would be trying such a high profile criminal case.
 
2012-11-28 11:46:17 PM

Dingleberry Dickwad: Sometimes you farkers astound me. Let me ask you this, at 11 years old were you under constant parental supervision? Were there never times where you and your friends went off and played at a local park or something of that nature for several hours? Or went on adventures in some nearby woods with your friends for a few hours? Or maybe just rode your bike around an extended neighborhood area for an hour or so?


While those are all fair questions, she was raped over a period of months, not a day. Like, the videotape date stamp changes for each rape.

Maybe at that point it's a fair question to ask about the parents.
 
2012-11-28 11:49:20 PM

HBK: The only "Steve Taylor" currently eligible to practice law in Texas is an-at-least 61 year old attorney who claims to office in New Braunfels (three and a half hours away) and specializes in Real Estate.

It's odd a real estate guy would be trying such a high profile criminal case.


Most public defenders aren't actually government employees - they are local lawyers that work pro-bono. Like your volunteer fire department, public defenders are routinely made up of other professionals who volunteer. That's not unusual.
 
2012-11-28 11:51:02 PM
This makes my head hurt. But, there is a cure. Scalpel, hollow tubing, rubber bands and some quality time spent. People who even think of kids like that.....well.
Next stop! Woodchipper foot massage.
 
2012-11-28 11:54:53 PM

GAT_00: Texas: because who needs to move to Pakistan?


Heard this being read in Dudley Moore's voice.

/just watched Crazy People
//was perfect
///too bad he's dead
 
2012-11-28 11:56:11 PM

yukichigai: Was going to suggest something like this, but IANAL and you are. Good to know a better-qualified person has made that post.


Does anyone else pronounce that word "EYE ANAL"?
 
HBK
2012-11-28 11:56:16 PM

Lsherm: Most public defenders aren't actually government employees - they are local lawyers that work pro-bono. Like your volunteer fire department, public defenders are routinely made up of other professionals who volunteer. That's not unusual.


So this non-criminal defense attorney traveled three and a half hours to Cleveland, TX for a trial when there's a bastion of potential criminal defense in Houston (an hour or so away) that could have been appointed?

I guess it's possible the guy lives out there now and hasn't updated his bar registration.
 
2012-11-28 11:56:47 PM
25.media.tumblr.com

You hear me talkin' hillbilly boy? I ain't through with you by a damn sight! I'm gonna get medieval on your ass.
 
2012-11-28 11:57:00 PM

Lsherm: Dingleberry Dickwad: Sometimes you farkers astound me. Let me ask you this, at 11 years old were you under constant parental supervision? Were there never times where you and your friends went off and played at a local park or something of that nature for several hours? Or went on adventures in some nearby woods with your friends for a few hours? Or maybe just rode your bike around an extended neighborhood area for an hour or so?

While those are all fair questions, she was raped over a period of months, not a day. Like, the videotape date stamp changes for each rape.

Maybe at that point it's a fair question to ask about the parents.


Thus you'll notice the other part of my post that lollipop ignored. The part where I said "I could see asking the question of whether or not the parents realized something was wrong with their daughter after coming home crying or what have you, but asking where the parents were like they're supposed to be hovering around her watching her every move anytime she wasn't in school is asinine."

I was also partly responding to

earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

 
2012-11-28 11:58:22 PM

Lsherm: FormlessOne: Just to ensure this defense attorney can't use this technicality at the request of these reprehensible "parents", the prosecutors had to ask that the dead girl be exhumed so a forensic expert can use her teeth, bones, and other physiological attributes to validate her age. The defense attorney fought against the exhumation, but lost because of the "extraordinary circumstances" of the case.

I'd be interested to see how that case plays out, because a malnourished 16 year old might, MIGHT be similar to a 13 year old. At the very least, it would make for a good Bones episode.


Just search for her name - it's a fairly notorious case here, in part because of the connection to the crazy "To Train Up Your Child" bit, in part because the parents continue to screw things up. They were both released on bail, with the condition that they have no contact with any of the kids taken from them - both parents violated that order, apparently to intimidate the other adopted kid. Some of the media outlets out here keep dodging the "To Train Up Your Child" angle in their coverage, apparently because of its popularity among right-wing religious kooks.
 
2012-11-29 12:00:25 AM
Jezebel, realizing that the normal worthless drivel they "publish" and also having some time ago stopped being a safe haven for out of work iVillage "authors" who will once again be out of work, does the only logical thing. Write about something abhorrent that we can all agree is terrible.

Can't call a website completely and utterly farking worthless when they play the 11 year old rape card.

Hang on to what is left of your "relevancy" Jezebel. But well played, nonetheless. Hang onto the buoy for dear life, don't mind those 11 foot waves, you'll still float.
 
2012-11-29 12:00:40 AM
wat

i.imgur.com

Wow. That's just...
 
HBK
2012-11-29 12:01:30 AM

HBK: Lsherm: Most public defenders aren't actually government employees - they are local lawyers that work pro-bono. Like your volunteer fire department, public defenders are routinely made up of other professionals who volunteer. That's not unusual.

So this non-criminal defense attorney traveled three and a half hours to Cleveland, TX for a trial when there's a bastion of potential criminal defense in Houston (an hour or so away) that could have been appointed?

I guess it's possible the guy lives out there now and hasn't updated his bar registration.


Well this is strange. There's a different guy with an avvo listing saying he graduated from TSU in 1989 and works crim defense out of Conroe. But, he is not listed on the texas bar website. No name, no address, and not even a bar card number or whether he's been disciplined. Maybe they unlisted him due to backlash, but you would think they'd at least keep his bar card number and discipline history.
 
2012-11-29 12:05:59 AM

queen biatch of the universe: Holy fark - that's horrible. I was adopted by abusive parents but at least the bastards made sure to feed me. That poor girl and her brother - I hope they find someone to give him the love and support he will need. Same for their biological children - they didn't ask for this happen either. As for the adoptive parents and the attorney - fark them both, there isn't a pit in hell deep enough for either of them. I wonder if the method you mentioned is what is now replacing "rebirthing" Link now that it has had some bad press (some idiots still use it).


The details of the case are unsettling not just because of the torture and abuse, but because of the connection to the "To Train Up Your Child" craziness being pushed by an extremist Christian ministry. From the Slate article, some details of the report regarding her torture, abuse, and death:

Carri and Larry Williams starved Hana for days, put her in a locked closet, shower room and forced her to sleep outside in the barn in the cold. She wasn't allowed to use the bathroom in the house, instead a porta-potty behind the barn. In addition, Hana was struck daily with a plumbing tool, a tube with a round ball on the end.

When police found Hana, her naked body-30 pounds underweight-was wrapped in sheet in the backyard.

The story goes on to mention that a controversial child-rearing book-To Train Up a Child, by Michael and Debi Pearl-was found in the Williams home. Since the book's original publication in 1994, a bevy of child abuse cases have citied the Pearls' evangelical guidebook as the source of the offending parents' behavior, but formal action has never been taken against the authors.


The worst part about this case is that it's not unique, thanks to that damned book. Other child abuse and child death cases are piling up, because morons are following those instructions thinking that, somehow, this is what Christians should do to their children.
 
2012-11-29 12:06:53 AM

earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.


Sounds like they were busy selling tickets. I mean, how do you miss THAT happening?
 
2012-11-29 12:16:25 AM
Warlordtrooper
2012-11-28 11:40:47 PM
While I'm sure there is plenty of outrage, perhaps it should be directed toward the defendant instead of his lawyer, You know the guy there to make sure the defendant gets a fair trial and due process is followed. It's only required by the constitution.

I really really do hate it when people vilify defense attorneys. They serve to protect our rights from the government. They make sure the government has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Any other system is simply unacceptable.


This and this. The lawyer has a job to do and someone has to do it. He has no obligation to put up a defense that fits your morals (the community's morals) or doesn't offend you. He is to put up a competent defense what is allowed under the law. Whether his choice of defense strategy is good for his client in this case is a whole other issue.

And those who posted how much they hate all lawyers - well, criminal defense lawyers who do sex crime stuff are really a special breed who aren't even especially liked within the legal profession - but we all understand that they are a necessary component to the justice system.... and certainly a job I wouldn't do.
 
2012-11-29 12:26:07 AM

antiFodder: yukichigai: Was going to suggest something like this, but IANAL and you are. Good to know a better-qualified person has made that post.

Does anyone else pronounce that word "EYE ANAL"?


I always read it as "I anal". Also, YMMV used to stand for "you make me vomit", in some long forgotten 90's message boards. It was an insult.
 
2012-11-29 12:29:33 AM

talkertopc: I 100% approve of defense lawyers doing anything for their client, no matter what the crime is. But when I say anything, I mean anything that is not unethical. Please someone tell me he can be disbarred for that kind of unprofessional disgusting conduct.


Assuming, of course, that she was not in fact a conniving spider, that he knew this at the time, and that he was the one who said it, not his client, then probably yes. I'll admit I don't keep track of the rules for other states, but in mine lawyers are specifically prohibited from engaging in conduct that undermines the integrity of the judicial process, including knowingly misleading the court/jury or assisting their client in knowingly misleading the court/jury.

If the false statement was made by the client and disclosing that it was false would hurt the client's defense, he would likely not be allowed to disclose to the court that the statement was false and would not be sanctionable for failing to do so.

Here, however, the article pretty clearly indicates that (based on the question asked) the lawyer was helping the client make this argument. It's not as if he asked "what happened" (a perfectly OK question), and the client lied. The lawyer pretty much asked "she *lie lie lie lie lie lie* didn't she?"

But who knows. Texas is a pretty farked up state. It could be totally OK there.  And in any event, it could be pretty damn hard to prove, short of the client turning on the lawyer.
 
2012-11-29 12:42:44 AM

Anderson's Pooper: I am a defense attorney. One of the things I tell my clients is that I'll do anything I can within the bounds of law to make sure they get a fair trial. But I also let them know that if I can't say it with a straight face I won't say it on the record. This statement doesn't even come close.

Given the video tape, about the best you can do is question his ability to discern her age. Spread the blame with the co-defendants, "They said she was 18." And don't go after her other than making sure the jury knows it was "consentual." The worst thing you can do is victimize her even more.


Just a thought, as I know lawyers aren't allowed to intentionally sabotage their case without being disbarred, but is it possible that this is what he was trying to accomplish? Swing even more sympathy to the child by making such wild accusations? Certainly worked here..... I just have trouble believing anyone could be that callous even for the job.. ( and yeah I haven't been here long, so... Not quite that jaded yet).
 
2012-11-29 12:45:12 AM

earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.


Sounds like typical gang indoctrination activity. Girls aren't allowed membership until all the gang members fark 'em. Boys "just" get beaten up by everyone as part of their hazing ritual. But gangbangs aren't just for victims, it's part of what gangs do to their own.

There are cases where the parents are also gang members, and are actually there to help as part of the ritual and even supply condoms. Go watch some documentaries on MS-13 and other gangs.
 
2012-11-29 12:55:22 AM
You know... Normally I automatically assume anything that Jezebel is biatching about, is probably no big deal at all.

This though. WTF? For once I agree with Jezebel.
ಠ_ಠ
 
2012-11-29 12:58:30 AM

FormlessOne: queen biatch of the universe: Holy fark - that's horrible. I was adopted by abusive parents but at least the bastards made sure to feed me. That poor girl and her brother - I hope they find someone to give him the love and support he will need. Same for their biological children - they didn't ask for this happen either. As for the adoptive parents and the attorney - fark them both, there isn't a pit in hell deep enough for either of them. I wonder if the method you mentioned is what is now replacing "rebirthing" Link now that it has had some bad press (some idiots still use it).

The details of the case are unsettling not just because of the torture and abuse, but because of the connection to the "To Train Up Your Child" craziness being pushed by an extremist Christian ministry. From the Slate article, some details of the report regarding her torture, abuse, and death:

Carri and Larry Williams starved Hana for days, put her in a locked closet, shower room and forced her to sleep outside in the barn in the cold. She wasn't allowed to use the bathroom in the house, instead a porta-potty behind the barn. In addition, Hana was struck daily with a plumbing tool, a tube with a round ball on the end.

When police found Hana, her naked body-30 pounds underweight-was wrapped in sheet in the backyard.

The story goes on to mention that a controversial child-rearing book-To Train Up a Child, by Michael and Debi Pearl-was found in the Williams home. Since the book's original publication in 1994, a bevy of child abuse cases have citied the Pearls' evangelical guidebook as the source of the offending parents' behavior, but formal action has never been taken against the authors.

The worst part about this case is that it's not unique, thanks to that damned book. Other child abuse and child death cases are piling up, because morons are following those instructions thinking that, somehow, this is what Christians should do to their children.


*cringe*

yeah I followed those links too - why doesn't my brain have a delete file button :(
 
2012-11-29 01:00:48 AM

God-is-a-Taco: God damn I hate that virtual cesspool. Someone please fly a plane into the Gawker data center.


God threw a hurricane at it and flooded it.

The farkers are still online.
 
2012-11-29 01:00:58 AM

hubiestubert: ...and this is why I killed him Your Honor...

In fairness, in Texas, that would be a perfectly cromulent defense.


Yep. In some parts of Texas, "he needed killin'" is a perfectly acceptable defense.
 
2012-11-29 01:07:31 AM

John Buck 41: Harry_Seldon: Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?

Even the most despicable clients deserve a vigorous defense.

Define 'vigorous'.


Up the pooper w/ a rusty cheese grater?
 
2012-11-29 01:08:46 AM
AJisaff
Smartest
Funniest

2012-11-29 12:42:44 AM
Anderson's Pooper: I am a defense attorney. One of the things I tell my clients is that I'll do anything I can within the bounds of law to make sure they get a fair trial. But I also let them know that if I can't say it with a straight face I won't say it on the record. This statement doesn't even come close.

Given the video tape, about the best you can do is question his ability to discern her age. Spread the blame with the co-defendants, "They said she was 18." And don't go after her other than making sure the jury knows it was "consentual." The worst thing you can do is victimize her even more.

Just a thought, as I know lawyers aren't allowed to intentionally sabotage their case without being disbarred, but is it possible that this is what he was trying to accomplish? Swing even more sympathy to the child by making such wild accusations? Certainly worked here..... I just have trouble believing anyone could be that callous even for the job.. ( and yeah I haven't been here long, so... Not quite that jaded yet).


Risk your legal career and "meal ticket" (aka bar license) so some guy will go to jail? Real unlikely. Also, you are laying grounds for having the whole trial thrown out on appeal due to incompetent legal representation.

Blaming the victim on some level can be a pretty standard legal defense for crim defense attorneys who deal with this stuff.
 
2012-11-29 01:09:39 AM

rwa2: earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Sounds like typical gang indoctrination activity. Girls aren't allowed membership until all the gang members fark 'em. Boys "just" get beaten up by everyone as part of their hazing ritual. But gangbangs aren't just for victims, it's part of what gangs do to their own.

There are cases where the parents are also gang members, and are actually there to help as part of the ritual and even supply condoms. Go watch some documentaries on MS-13 and other gangs.


You sound racist.
 
2012-11-29 01:13:16 AM
I understand that everyone is entitled to the best defense possible, but this is just wrong.

I hope she gets away with the insanity defense in a few years when she shows up at the lawyer's house and goes all Audition on his ass
 
2012-11-29 01:15:06 AM

John Buck 41: Harry_Seldon: Chariset: How does this man sleep at night?

Even the most despicable clients deserve a vigorous defense.

Define 'vigorous'.


I believe that is the interest you pay to a loan shark?
 
2012-11-29 01:19:45 AM
That man is living proof as to why lawers wear neckties: To keep the foreskin from creeping over their faces.
 
2012-11-29 01:20:22 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
HBK
2012-11-29 01:20:32 AM

Mega Steve: I understand that everyone is entitled to the best defense possible, but this is just wrong.


Not true. You're entitled to the effective assistance of counsel, not the best defense possible. Whether or not to blame the victim is the lawyer's call. If the defendant tells his attorney to go after a girl with a "reputation," in a rape case, the attorney does not have to listen to him. If the defendant has a problem with that he can fire the lawyer. A lawyer is under no ethical or professional responsibility to be a sleazeball. This was a trial tactic by a farking disgusting lawyer who went to the worst law school in Texas and deserves all of the scorn he receives.

/not a lawyer, but I know a little bit
 
2012-11-29 01:21:58 AM
Holy shiat, someone give me the 21 names. I've got a shotgun and heavy ball-peen hammer and want to make my life worthwhile.
 
2012-11-29 01:44:22 AM
(deleted: wrong thread, eh?)

no no. just waiting to see if a spider trifecta got put into play.
 
2012-11-29 01:55:27 AM

queen biatch of the universe: earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Sadly a lot of the time with these cases, the bastards that raped him or her were not the first. These people know how to spot damaged good and know that their victims believe that they deserve what happens to them and will stay quiet.


Yeah, there's been a lot of studies on both the predatory nature of sex offenders (and their ability to pick easy targets), and people who have been abused - especially as children - and not recognising the situation they're in might be dangerous until later than people who haven't gone through that trauma in the past.

/At work so don't have the couple of papers on the subject at hand sadly.
 
2012-11-29 02:00:30 AM
OK. She consented. Drop any forcible rape charges. All the statutory rape charges will still stand, and the participants could be charged for each instance of sexual contact. They should be out of the way for a very long time, amongst people who hate child rapers (regardless of whether or not the girl consented).
 
2012-11-29 02:13:10 AM
Couldn't an attorney refuse to defend someone? What happens if no attorney is willing to take the job, is some poor schmuck forced into it?
 
2012-11-29 02:28:21 AM
And, let's see, several more dumbasses take shots at Texas, after it's been pointed out the defense argument utterly failed; the verdict is in and the child-farker got life without parole.
 
HBK
2012-11-29 02:31:05 AM

gadian: Couldn't an attorney refuse to defend someone? What happens if no attorney is willing to take the job, is some poor schmuck forced into it?


Yes, ordinarily if someone goes to a lawyer's office, the lawyer has every right to refuse representation for any matter.

There are two exceptions:

1) The court can appoint an attorney. As an appointed attorney, you need a really good excuse to turn the case down. "This client sickens me" is not a sufficient excuse. If you don't have an excuse and decline to represent the defendant, you can be held in contempt and have violated most state's codes of legal ethics (lawyer can be reprimanded, suspended, probably not disbarred though).

2) If the person has gone to every other attorney around and been turned down, you are stuck representing him. It's not an express ethical rule for which you could get in trouble, but it's more just this-is-what-lawyer's-do type thing for the sake of professional integrity. Even the scummiest people deserve representation, so if everyone else has turned them down you have a professional duty to take the case.

The interesting thing about court appointments- if it's a big case, like capital murder or the OKC bombing case, the court will go out of their way to seek really, really good lawyers. Capital murder cases won't just grab a first year lawyer and throw him in the lion's den, as far as appointments go.


/not a lawyer
 
2012-11-29 02:37:16 AM

HBK: /not a lawyer


well you coulda fooled me. darn good explanation.
 
2012-11-29 03:11:56 AM

Gyrfalcon: Lsherm: minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."
 

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.

In all fairness, he's obligated to give the best defense he can give to the client, and since the rapes were videotaped, he could really only argue that it was consensual. I sincerely doubt he thought it would work, but he can't walk into court and say "fark THIS GUY - send him away." For all we know, it was double-super-secret-reverse-psychology and he figured the "she asked for it" argument would be so reprehensible that his client would be found guilty anyway. And so he was - life in prison. 

I'd bet anything he was asking for a plea deal and his client wouldn't accept, so he had to go outlandish during trial. It's not like this was a rich client, so there wasn't an upside for the lawyer going to trial.

Horseshiat.

I could give a scumbag client the best defense possible without having to resort to blaming an 11year old child for instigating her own gang-rape by 20 adult men. And even without feeling bad about trying to get him found not guilty.

This attorney is probably raping his own daughter if he's got one, and somebody needs to check if he's been sanctioned lately.


So, if you were an attorney and was given this case, how would you defend him?

To Lsherm: using the double-super-secret-reverse-psychology would, at the very least, open him up to being disbarred. You MUST do everything you legally can to defend your client.
 
2012-11-29 03:13:46 AM

Gergesa: Hmmm I have to wonder how some defense attorneys make it through the day. They must be very good at compartmentalizing and just kind of shutting down certain parts of their mind.


Just like those who support the troops.
 
2012-11-29 03:31:53 AM

The One True TheDavid: HindiDiscoMonster:

This douche nozzle probably justifies this by saying "My client has the right to the most zealous defense I can give him". There is a difference between a zealous defense and being a soulless evil motherfarker straight from the pit of hell... a very narrow line, granted, but there is a line.

Clearly you don't understand how the American "justice" system works.

It's a defense lawyer's job to do that, to advocate and fight for a client. Any client they take. A professional ethical obligation. If they can't do that they have no business being defense lawyers. I stand behind that 100%, given the givens: a lawyer who usually tells his clients to plea-bargain should be shot.

It's the flip side to prosecutors sending a guy in a 3-strikes state to prison for a long long time for shoplifting a pair of socks. How do they sleep at night? The guy was homeless and his feet were cold. The same for a security guard who held him for the cops: I'd pay for the socks myself, even buy him a jacket too, but tell him to please not come back to that Walmart because I need the job. But most security guards are pissed that they don't qualify to be real cops, and a DA needs a good record if he's going to run for a higher office. Get tough on crime!

It's a flawed system but it is better than some. Ever heard of North Korea?


A lawyer's job is to also advise his client on what is in the client's best interest. If this means taking a deal because the lawyer doesn't think that the case is winnable at trial, so be it. If the client does not want to deal, then the lawyer's obligation is to present the most vigorous defense possible within the boundaries of law and ethics.
 
2012-11-29 03:46:10 AM

The One True TheDavid: In all fairness, on the first day of 8th grade I asked a girl if she was a teaching student: she seemed too um "mature" (mentally as well as mammarily) to be in middle school. She turned out to be in 6th grade, age 12. (And she did have a very high IQ.) Point is, she looked & carried herself like she was 18: if she'd said she was old enough most people would believe her. (36DD? Not baby-faced? You would too.)

BUT. If they knew she was only 11 they're legally culpable. Regardless of whether Statutory Rape of a willing "victim" should be a crime, if they knew it was illegal and did it anyway they knew what they were doing. How hard can it be to not fark somebody? Maybe I'm weird, but it seems to me that doing something uses more energy and involves more risk than not doing it. "Come back when you're 16. By the way, do you have a picture of your mom?"


You are legally culpable even if you don't know that the victim is underage in many jurisdictions (such as Texas). As statutory rape is a strict liability crime in those jurisdictions, mens rea is irrelevant. Only the actus reus needs to be considered by the jury in establishing guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The only thing that pleading that kind of ignorance will get you is the possibility of leniency during sentencing.

/not a lawyer
//but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night
 
2012-11-29 03:54:26 AM

RatMaster999: AverageAmericanGuy: Ever known an 11 year old girl? Conniving spiders, all of them. It just gets worse from there.

Having dated a few, I concur.


Shenanigans! Had you actually dated a conniving spider your head would have been ripped off immediately after mating.
 
2012-11-29 03:59:42 AM
The Chewbacca defense is the only thing saving this guy from the chair.
 
2012-11-29 04:01:30 AM

The One True TheDavid: HindiDiscoMonster:

This douche nozzle probably justifies this by saying "My client has the right to the most zealous defense I can give him". There is a difference between a zealous defense and being a soulless evil motherfarker straight from the pit of hell... a very narrow line, granted, but there is a line.

Clearly you don't understand how the American "justice" system works.

It's a defense lawyer's job to do that, to advocate and fight for a client. Any client they take. A professional ethical obligation. If they can't do that they have no business being defense lawyers. I stand behind that 100%, given the givens: a lawyer who usually tells his clients to plea-bargain should be shot.

It's the flip side to prosecutors sending a guy in a 3-strikes state to prison for a long long time for shoplifting a pair of socks. How do they sleep at night? The guy was homeless and his feet were cold. The same for a security guard who held him for the cops: I'd pay for the socks myself, even buy him a jacket too, but tell him to please not come back to that Walmart because I need the job. But most security guards are pissed that they don't qualify to be real cops, and a DA needs a good record if he's going to run for a higher office. Get tough on crime!

It's a flawed system but it is better than some. Ever heard of North Korea?


It's about as good as it gets, actually. It's a flawed and imperfect system because it deals with, and was designed by, flawed and imperfect human beings.
 
2012-11-29 04:10:49 AM
I predict that there will soon be 21 prison inmates murdered in Texas.
 
2012-11-29 05:27:56 AM

MeanJean: Funny how you're blaming HER parents and not, you know, the TEENAGE RAPIST'S parents


There is plenty enough blame to go around.
The rapist organiser first.
Then his fellow rapists.
Then the rapists parents.
Then the child's parents.

You can apply blame to any group without removing blame from the others.

Using the "don't blame anyone but the rapists" will let others who are also culpable off with a free angle to do it again.

My 11 year old would not have an opportunity to be gang raped in this fashion without me knowing something was wrong. It does sound like all the parents involved turned a blind eye to this horrific situation. This makes them partially to blame without offering forgiveness to the more serious offenders.
 
2012-11-29 05:49:55 AM
These kind of threads make me sad. Someone has to defend people who do these things and they have to do it as well as they can. The system wouldn't work otherwise.

Think of defence lawyers not as friends of the evil, but as quality control for prosecutors and the government. Whether someone has been raped is not actually the true issue here - the ultimate issue is whether there is enough compelling evidence, which has been properly adduced, to justify the use of the State's punitive powers. This power, being one of the most harsh powers the State can use against the individual, must only be used in the most certain circumstances.
 
2012-11-29 06:12:32 AM

highwayrun: RatMaster999: AverageAmericanGuy: Ever known an 11 year old girl? Conniving spiders, all of them. It just gets worse from there.

Having dated a few, I concur.

Shenanigans! Had you actually dated a conniving spider your head would have been ripped off immediately after mating.


I've managed to avoid the praying mantises in the crowd... They got those weird bug eyes. Total turn-off.
 
2012-11-29 06:52:28 AM
Oh please Mr. Defense Attorney, just say what you mean: Legitimate spider-rape.
 
2012-11-29 07:10:21 AM

The One True TheDavid: It's a defense lawyer's job to do that, to advocate and fight for a client. Any client they take. A professional ethical obligation. If they can't do that they have no business being defense lawyers. I stand behind that 100%, given the givens: a lawyer who usually tells his clients to plea-bargain should be shot.


There is a difference between "advocate and fight for" and "lie for".

Calling an 11 yr old a spider who can lure 20 men into having sex with her falls squarely in the "lie for".
 
2012-11-29 07:26:20 AM

naughtyrev: Wow - that's a um, novel, defense . When I first read about this story a while back, I remembered there was a bunch of outrage in the community not about what happened but because of who was implicated. Steve Taylor, defense attorney, is a true scumbag.


It's not a novel defense at all. Women have been the ones getting blamed when they get raped for the better part of our 5 million year history. When I clicked the link, I actually thought that this was another story that I recently read about in California.

Anyone know how we as a society can prevent things like this from happening?

/Not that this should matter, but I'm a guy (who believes that women deserve the same rights that I do )
 
2012-11-29 07:28:17 AM
So anybody that endures prolonged abuse is just asking for it?
 
2012-11-29 08:45:32 AM
I know 2 people who lost their virginity "consensually" at 11 (to other 11 year olds). Both had been molested as children. I don't think it was a coincidence.
 
2012-11-29 08:55:49 AM

Gijick:

Anyone know how we as a society can prevent things like this from happening?



If women don't want to be raped then they can stop saying "no". It's pretty easy really.
 
2012-11-29 09:15:29 AM

trivial use of my dark powers: Steve Taylor, defense attorney, is the biggest #$%$%^#% in the whole story which is quite a feat considering the others are grown men who rape eleven year olds.


This
 
2012-11-29 09:38:51 AM
Hey come on !! How did they know she was 11

She looked 12
 
2012-11-29 10:15:51 AM

earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.


Her behavior would suggest sexual abuse from a young age. She didn't disclose, and gave the illusion of "consent" because this behavior is her normal. (BRB- need to vomit and cry) I strongly suspect that this child's life has been hell fromm the get-go.

Awful, soul-sucking truth: just like victims of domestic violence will sometimes provoke an attack, because the escalating tension and walking on eggshells is horrible, and getting it over with usually leads to the peaceful period afterwards, child victims of sexual abuse will sometimes initiate the contact, because it will happen anyway and by initiating it they both get it over with and have a little bit of control over the situation. It doesn't mean they want it.

This whole situation makes me sick. I hate this lawyer. I hate this whole town. I wish that girl a whole new life filled with intense therapy and a calm, normal, sex-free environment.
 
2012-11-29 10:20:44 AM
 
2012-11-29 10:24:24 AM

fiver5: rwa2: earthworm2.0: Where the hell was this girls parents? How does an 11 year old girl have the free time out of supervision to get gang raped by 20 guys? I think there should.be charges for her parents too.

Sounds like typical gang indoctrination activity. Girls aren't allowed membership until all the gang members fark 'em. Boys "just" get beaten up by everyone as part of their hazing ritual. But gangbangs aren't just for victims, it's part of what gangs do to their own.

There are cases where the parents are also gang members, and are actually there to help as part of the ritual and even supply condoms. Go watch some documentaries on MS-13 and other gangs.

You sound racist.


Well, I /do/ come from a racist part of the country (DC), and my wife used to teach middle and high school in neighborhoods with MS-13 & Serrano activity, so that's what jumped to mind first. /DNRTFA

But yes, for all the ITG talk in this thread, this kind of thing happens all the time (albeit without the lawyer clowning). And I submit that racism is probably a big factor why more isn't being done to prevent it.
 
2012-11-29 10:24:51 AM

Verzio: The child-farker in this specific case was convicted and sentenced to life in prison today, and will not be eligible for parole.

And as disgusting as the argument the lawyer made may have been, the result is that the child-farker doesn't have room to claim the defense attorney didn't make every effort, does he?


LIBERTY - Jurors took less than 10 minutes on Wednesday to hand a life sentence to Jared Len Cruse, who shook his head and dabbed his eyes with tissue after being convicted of participating in the gang rape of an 11-year-old girl.

Convicted of aggravated sexual assault of a child in concert with others, the 20-year-old will not be eligible for parole.


Thank you. I feel better now. This almost makes up for the whole Caylee Anthony mess.
 
2012-11-29 10:27:11 AM

Igor Jakovsky: Bit'O'Gristle: At a rally last night, Houston community activist Quanell X suggested investigators are racially biased because only black men and boys have been charged with the rape of the 11-year-old victim, who is Hispanic. "We do not want someone with a malicious racist motive to rid your community of an entire generation of black men," he said.


/.........
fark you..fark you long and hard Quanell, you race card playing douchebag. And how can the investigators be racists, when ALL THE SUSPECTS WERE BLACK? Don't let the facts cloud your race baiting ass.

You're shiatting me?

/also....Quanell X...


Got him beat. Our local "community activist" calls himself Christopher "2X"

I usually refer to him as X-tra Large.
 
2012-11-29 10:38:28 AM

ace in your face: I know 2 people who lost their virginity "consensually" at 11 (to other 11 year olds). Both had been molested as children. I don't think it was a coincidence.


I don't think so either. I was in social work, and worked with pregnant and parenting teens young people. The youngest we had was ten. Yes, ten.

Anecdotal evidence of course, but in my experience, the younger the girl was at pregnancy, the greater the chance that she first became sexually active at an early age at the hands of a family member or other parentified adult.
 
2012-11-29 11:37:05 AM

Dingleberry Dickwad: Thus you'll notice the other part of my post that lollipop ignored. The part where I said "I could see asking the question of whether or not the parents realized something was wrong with their daughter after coming home crying or what have you, but asking where the parents were like they're supposed to be hovering around her watching her every move anytime she wasn't in school is asinine."


At 11? Seriously?

No, I wasn't "hovered" at 11. But my parents always knew where I was and who I was with.

And damn skippy they would have noticed if I was being regularly gang raped.
 
2012-11-29 12:23:45 PM
I am not trying to defend the boys and men in their actions, but the girl did approach them and willing went with them. She might not have known what was going to happen the first time, but she then returned many more times knowing full well what was going to take place. The girl never reported anything until after the video came to light and she was approached by law enforcement. I am thinking this girl had a history of child abuse long before these men and in her twisted mind was ready, willing and able. I am not saying a crime wasn't committed I am just saying there is guilt enough to go around.
 
2012-11-29 12:32:53 PM

Profedius: I am not trying to defend the boys and men in their actions, but the girl did approach them and willing went with them. She might not have known what was going to happen the first time, but she then returned many more times knowing full well what was going to take place. The girl never reported anything until after the video came to light and she was approached by law enforcement. I am thinking this girl had a history of child abuse long before these men and in her twisted mind was ready, willing and able. I am not saying a crime wasn't committed I am just saying there is guilt enough to go around.


I wouldn't call her twisted. It's not uncommon to be sexually active at that age. We just like to lie to ourselves and say otherwise. The problem is she wasn't legally old enough to consent. She admitted on the stand that she consented and wanted the sex... the onus is on the older party to say "no, sorry, you're too young, see you in a few years."

I don't blame the lawyer for trying, given she admitted she wanted the sex. I doubt he had any other options.
 
2012-11-29 12:40:09 PM

Flagg99: It's not uncommon to be sexually active at that age.


If it was 11/one boy close to eleven, it would be an entirely different story. When this first broke, it was reported that her blood was all over that trailer, and quite a lot of blood, too. Twenty adult men tore the shiat out of her little girl body. That is completely, totally uncommon and not normal.

As I said before, I believe this little girl grew up in an environment of severe sexual abuse, and as a result has no sense of normal, healthy sexuality. She will need a lot of good, intensive therapy to be anything close to normal ever again.

And none of that for one second makes this not rape. His sentence is entirely appropriate.
 
2012-11-29 12:45:57 PM

Profedius: I am thinking this girl had a history of child abuse long before these men and in her twisted mind was ready, willing and able. I am not saying a crime wasn't committed I am just saying there is guilt enough to go around.


You sick bastard.
 
2012-11-29 01:13:21 PM

Profedius: I am not trying to defend the boys and men in their actions, but the girl did approach them and willing went with them. She might not have known what was going to happen the first time, but she then returned many more times knowing full well what was going to take place. The girl never reported anything until after the video came to light and she was approached by law enforcement. I am thinking this girl had a history of child abuse long before these men and in her twisted mind was ready, willing and able. I am not saying a crime wasn't committed I am just saying there is guilt enough to go around.


So, the precedent we really want to be setting here is: don't come forward about sex abuse because, if you are (even in you're eleven) you're going to get blamed for it- partially if not entirely.

Sounds like great incentive to come forward, particularly if you're already not disposed to doing so.
 
2012-11-29 01:15:20 PM

Slartibartfaster: You can apply blame to any group without removing blame from the others.


Yep. This.
 
2012-11-29 01:22:12 PM

dustman81: If I were on that jury, I'd request a decontamination shower in the jury room as listening to that defense would make me feel soiled and unclean. Also, vomit bags placed in each seat.


Your honor, we the jury find the defendants guilty on all counts, and even though you didn't ask , further Find that the defense attorney needs an atomic cock-punch, daily, for the rest of his life. 

/have defended actual murderers in court and still never done anything that made me feel as sleazy as just READING that attorney's statement did
 
2012-11-29 01:30:45 PM

Magorn: have defended actual murderers in court



Oh, oh no. I have always liked you, Magorn. Now I just, I don't know... I'm so confused.



/snark
//really didn't know that, though
 
2012-11-29 01:31:05 PM

Lsherm: minoridiot: "People don't come with signs telling their age," Taylor said. "How does a young man know? You can't cut off their legs and count the rings like a tree."
 

And lawyers wonder why people hate them.

In all fairness, he's obligated to give the best defense he can give to the client, and since the rapes were videotaped, he could really only argue that it was consensual. I sincerely doubt he thought it would work, but he can't walk into court and say "fark THIS GUY - send him away." For all we know, it was double-super-secret-reverse-psychology and he figured the "she asked for it" argument would be so reprehensible that his client would be found guilty anyway. And so he was - life in prison. 

I'd bet anything he was asking for a plea deal and his client wouldn't accept, so he had to go outlandish during trial. It's not like this was a rich client, so there wasn't an upside for the lawyer going to trial.


But he's NOT giving his client the best possible representation. In fact he seems to be harming his client's interests to gain noteriety for himself. As someone who done Crim Law, I can tell you that correct play when the case against your guy is this strong is to get to the prosecutor FAST and negotiate the best possible plea deal for your client BEFORE the crime gets splashed across the front pages and Nancy Grace is howling for your client's blood on a nightly basis and the prosecutor feels pressure to go for the maximums
 
2012-11-29 01:42:09 PM

Spanky_McFarksalot: [i.chzbgr.com image 499x374]


That quote does not support your point in context.

/Nitpicking
//It distracts from the urge to stab TFA's lawyer
 
2012-11-29 01:42:12 PM

SundaesChild: Blaming the victim? Implying it was not legitimate rape? Sounds Republican to me.


Yeah, we don't care anymore...

1/10.
 
2012-11-29 02:14:20 PM
Slartibartfaster

You can apply blame to any group without removing blame from the others.

Using the "don't blame anyone but the rapists" will let others who are also culpable off with a free angle to do it again.

My 11 year old would not have an opportunity to be gang raped in this fashion without me knowing something was wrong. It does sound like all the parents involved turned a blind eye to this horrific situation. This makes them partially to blame without offering forgiveness to the more serious offenders.


That's swell and all, but its rather telling that earthworm2.0 first blamed the 11-year-olds parents and DIDNT EVEN MENTION parents of her rapists, some of whom, by the way, Lollipop165, were as young as 14-15, not 20-year-olds. I can't really accept this as a valid point when commentors don't even mention the parents of her rapists.
 
2012-11-29 02:23:20 PM
Profedius

I am not trying to defend the boys and men in their actions, but the girl did approach them and willing went with them. She might not have known what was going to happen the first time, but she then returned many more times knowing full well what was going to take place. The girl never reported anything until after the video came to light and she was approached by law enforcement. I am thinking this girl had a history of child abuse long before these men and in her twisted mind was ready, willing and able. I am not saying a crime wasn't committed I am just saying there is guilt enough to go around.

"Guilt enough to go around"? "In her twisted mind"?

Yeah sure you're not victim blaming.

Flagg99

An adult woman outside of pornography who would willingly let 20 men gangbang her is pretty damn rare. If you honesty think that an ELEVEN YEAR OLD GIRL would be just freaking happy to go along with it without coercion, then you're a farking idiot. Her vagina wouldn't even be fully developed yet. She tore and bled all over that farking trailer. How can you possibly claim she wanted that?
 
2012-11-29 02:25:27 PM

Magorn: As someone who done Crim Law, I can tell you that correct play when the case against your guy is this strong is to get to the prosecutor FAST and negotiate the best possible plea deal for your client BEFORE the crime gets splashed across the front pages


How do you know he didn't? He can't force his client to take a plea deal.
 
2012-11-29 02:54:51 PM

Flagg99: Profedius: I am not trying to defend the boys and men in their actions, but the girl did approach them and willing went with them. She might not have known what was going to happen the first time, but she then returned many more times knowing full well what was going to take place. The girl never reported anything until after the video came to light and she was approached by law enforcement. I am thinking this girl had a history of child abuse long before these men and in her twisted mind was ready, willing and able. I am not saying a crime wasn't committed I am just saying there is guilt enough to go around.

I wouldn't call her twisted. It's not uncommon to be sexually active at that age. We just like to lie to ourselves and say otherwise. The problem is she wasn't legally old enough to consent. She admitted on the stand that she consented and wanted the sex... the onus is on the older party to say "no, sorry, you're too young, see you in a few years."

I don't blame the lawyer for trying, given she admitted she wanted the sex. I doubt he had any other options.


Yeah twisted was not the best way to put it, but I felt being willing to have sex with lots of men and boys at the same time would seem to be odd even for someone who is sexual active. Perhaps this gang bang is a result of her being sexually active and young so it is not a sign of mental problems but a lack of experience to make better judgments. I have never had a case where one who is sexually active at a very young age engaged in more than three at the same time and reported that they would be willing have more in fact they often report they wish they hadn't had the three or two.

For those calling me an idiot even more so those that are telling there was no way she was willing you need to read the details, because she was very willing and she didn't bleed all over the place as some have suggested. Also a vagina of an 11 year old can handle the penis of a full grown adult. You also need to get your head out of the idea that under 18 people are sweet little innocent humans who would never do anything an adult would normally do, because that is a fairy tale that if it ever did exist it died a long time ago.
 
2012-11-29 03:02:18 PM

Lsherm: Magorn: As someone who done Crim Law, I can tell you that correct play when the case against your guy is this strong is to get to the prosecutor FAST and negotiate the best possible plea deal for your client BEFORE the crime gets splashed across the front pages

How do you know he didn't? He can't force his client to take a plea deal.


IMO judging by the fact that the jury took ten freakin' minutes to return a verdict, blaming the victim, especially as harshly as he did, was 100% the wrong tack to take here. It most likely angered the jury. Pissed me right the fark off.

People do not want to be told that you think an eleven year old child is a slut.

I am thinking that ten minutes was 10 seconds of "Farking guilty" and 9 minutes 50 seconds of "How long do we have to sit in here before we can go back out and tell him he's farking guilty?"
 
2012-11-29 03:11:02 PM

Gyrfalcon: I could give a scumbag client the best defense possible without having to resort to blaming an 11year old child for instigating her own gang-rape by 20 adult men. And even without feeling bad about trying to get him found not guilty.


When I was 8 I had a 9 year old girl tell me I should stick it in her but I declined.

Young girls are pretty vicious. Regardless, in any circumstances, when they think they're going to be in trouble, the whole world is suddenly everybody else's fault. It's a believable assertion, but irrelevant as a defense--sex with an 11 year old is illegal, even if she wanted it; what's going on here is she's well aware she's not supposed to do that, and now people are gonna find out, and she's trying to not get punished by mommy and daddy. That's how girls work, that's how they always work: girls lie to solve their problems, guys use their fists to solve their problems. Girls often lie to make guys not use their fists on them, or to make guys like them and use their fists on other guys.

Great buddy, but you're still going to jail. Forever. And you young lady are GROUNDED UNTIL YOU'RE 18.
 
2012-11-29 03:17:24 PM

Profedius: Also a vagina of an 11 year old can handle the penis of a full grown adult.


www.blogcdn.com
 
2012-11-29 03:36:14 PM

Lsherm: While those are all fair questions, she was raped over a period of months, not a day. Like, the videotape date stamp changes for each rape.

Maybe at that point it's a fair question to ask about the parents.


Maybe she was getting away with it. You know, making sure she wasn't getting caught, because she's a misbehaved conniving spider luring barely-sentient hormonal moron men into her web.
 
2012-11-29 03:41:21 PM

SkunkWerks: Profedius: Also a vagina of an 11 year old can handle the penis of a full grown adult.

[www.blogcdn.com image 350x525]


Lol no it was not something I personally experienced nor is it something I care to experience. My former line of work before I became a network admin. Was disturbingly enlightening as to matters and details of underage sex.
 
2012-11-29 03:43:06 PM

namegoeshere: People do not want to be told that you think an eleven year old child is a slut.


When I was 8 I knew a 9 year old that was~~~~

I didn't know what the hell crazy shiat she was on about, so declined to stick parts into other parts. Another boy a year younger introduced me to her...

People do not want to be told the truth when it's unpalatable. Like how kids hate to eat broccoli or brussle sprouts because they're bitter, but they're good for you somehow. They're food, even if they taste like poison.

Sometimes small children just ... have that spark. I knew a girl that never messed around with guys until she was 16, but since she was like 11 or 12 she's had it on her mind... she grew up uh. She became real friendly with a lot of boys in college.

Unfortunately most people don't like that particular spark. It's unfortunate because when you tell them you saw that spark, they tell you there's no such thing as that spark, and they don't believe it even when that spark ignites a trashcan and burns their house down around them. Often they'll even remain in the burning building, denying it's on fire. For example, in this case, the parents could deny that their precious angel could have been complicit at all, in which case she doesn't get in trouble, she gets to go out 'with friends', so she involves 2 or 3 of her 10 or 11 year old friends, and now there's 4 girls going out getting reamed by guys twice their age.

People value their views and beliefs more than the consequences of ignoring those beliefs and accepting that the world is sometimes not pretty and things happen that need to be addressed. Children are irresponsible (even most adults are irresponsible); if nothing else, the child could get HIV or wind up pregnant by the time she's 13, or (as I said) use her friends to give her parents a false sense of control and get them involved in these shenanigans.
 
2012-11-29 03:56:42 PM

Profedius: My former line of work before I became a network admin. Was disturbingly enlightening as to matters and details of underage sex.


Lateral career move?

I'm bound to logic; some defect in my brain prevents me from remaining emotional under any meter of stress. That includes romantic feelings (which are stress) and personal attachments (again, stress). As such, shiat like this just doesn't bother me; I evaluate it on merit, directly.

I'm also an information addict. Everything information is good. All understanding of all psychology is good, even warped psychology. Children are even more diverse than adults--I can't personally stand them (I'm actually aggressive toward children, it's a subconscious reflex; I find them disturbing so I bark at them to get out of my way and not touch me or my personal possessions, whereas I'm much gentler with adults), but I have to admit that children are ritually abused by society forcing them into a mold.

Everything we give children produces a narrow range of adults--we give them religion, social views, ideals on what's right and wrong, ideals on what's socially acceptable, what gets you friends and what keeps your friends away, what's good and bad, what's normal and weird. Whatever makes them different that falls outside the positively-reenforced guidelines is weakened; whatever falls into negative reenforcement is outright sheared off, boxed up, protected against. People become insecure. Girls that are afraid of sex because "it's wrong to have sex before marriage," because of a social stigma we taught them. Girls that believe money, power, cars, muscles, whatever makes boys cool. Rebels, boys that believe they must all be cassinovas, punk rockers, that smoking makes them cool, that gangster thug life makes them cool. Boys won't do anything "too gay," girls ... don't really care much, because all they get is "Oooooh lala!" and some smiles but there's no pressure to do that or not.

It's all from social molding. It's either following what you're given or rebelling and identifying with another group. Non-conformists conform to a group they're not being forced into. Children aren't blank; they have impulses we encourage or cull, and they have reactions by which they chose to encourage or cull some of their own impulses because of rebellion or acceptance, role models or strict discipline.

I'm a tough case. It's hard to tell what happened; a lot, really, mostly internal. At some point maybe I tried to rebel, but I was aware of my dependence on those I wanted to rebel against, and had nowhere else to turn, so I just closed up emotionally. In any case there's nothing human left here; I am a machine of cold logic. I've tried sex but it is difficult and awkward, and highly stressful. Not really enjoyable, and there is a lot of strange fluid exchange and strange smells and it's messy and not pleasant. I've tried socialization, but friends are hard to keep--they are much work for almost no return, save some amusement watching their reactions to things I say. Attachments don't happen, mostly; when they do, it's an obvious psychological defect, something that occurs out of nowhere in force, blunt insanity. This, too, was forged; as a child I was much different and on a path my parents would have never approved of; I removed their influence, but had nothing to substitute, as any attempt to pursue my own development on my own impulses was... too risky. So I abstained from developing as a human entirely.

Oh well.
 
2012-11-29 04:23:12 PM

hubiestubert: ...and this is why I killed him Your Honor...

In fairness, in Texas, that would be a perfectly cromulent defense.


he needed killing
 
2012-11-29 04:42:40 PM

bluefoxicy: Profedius: My former line of work before I became a network admin. Was disturbingly enlightening as to matters and details of underage sex.

Lateral career move?

I'm bound to logic; some defect in my brain prevents me from remaining emotional under any meter of stress. That includes romantic feelings (which are stress) and personal attachments (again, stress). As such, shiat like this just doesn't bother me; I evaluate it on merit, directly.

I'm also an information addict. Everything information is good. All understanding of all psychology is good, even warped psychology. Children are even more diverse than adults--I can't personally stand them (I'm actually aggressive toward children, it's a subconscious reflex; I find them disturbing so I bark at them to get out of my way and not touch me or my personal possessions, whereas I'm much gentler with adults), but I have to admit that children are ritually abused by society forcing them into a mold.

Everything we give children produces a narrow range of adults--we give them religion, social views, ideals on what's right and wrong, ideals on what's socially acceptable, what gets you friends and what keeps your friends away, what's good and bad, what's normal and weird. Whatever makes them different that falls outside the positively-reenforced guidelines is weakened; whatever falls into negative reenforcement is outright sheared off, boxed up, protected against. People become insecure. Girls that are afraid of sex because "it's wrong to have sex before marriage," because of a social stigma we taught them. Girls that believe money, power, cars, muscles, whatever makes boys cool. Rebels, boys that believe they must all be cassinovas, punk rockers, that smoking makes them cool, that gangster thug life makes them cool. Boys won't do anything "too gay," girls ... don't really care much, because all they get is "Oooooh lala!" and some smiles but there's no pressure to do that or not.

It's all from social molding. It's eithe ...


The answer to your question is more money in my current work that is with the same entity I worked with before just a different section.

I also do not get emotional over issues and things of this nature do not disturb me the disturb comment was meant for how the content would be viewed by society. To me the content and details are viewed as humans having sexual encounters with the same amount of emotion as watching someone bake a cake. It is too bad about your personal experience with sex, because I can not think of anything in this world that is better than good sex and even bad sex is still pretty good. I agree with your mold thoughts but the idea that women are made to think sex should only be after they are married might be pasted down from the parents, but quickly dismissed by society and has been for years. I have never met a woman of around my age group or younger that was a virgin past the age of 15 and I know quite a few as young as 12. I myself was 13 the first time I had intercourse and was 11 the first time I had and gave oral.
 
2012-11-29 05:01:46 PM

Profedius: I can not think of anything in this world that is better than good sex and even bad sex is still pretty good.


See I don't understand how this happens. I have met lots of guys who are hounds. As soon as sex is in the equation they are not thinking. Their single driver is sex. They get laid the most, too--they'll stick it in anything, they're at a party they're on a drunk girl before they leave. Girlfriend? Girlfriend isn't here! And so on.

It's not overriding for me. It's there but it doesn't work in real life. It's not even a mind-with-the-body thing; it's two parts of the mind that aren't working together, which I'm trying to fix. (And they tell me I need a therapist... what is she going to do, open her robe and slowly introduce me to sex in a non-stressful situation? That would be a huge violation of ethics!)
 
2012-11-29 05:49:18 PM

bluefoxicy: Profedius: I can not think of anything in this world that is better than good sex and even bad sex is still pretty good.

See I don't understand how this happens. I have met lots of guys who are hounds. As soon as sex is in the equation they are not thinking. Their single driver is sex. They get laid the most, too--they'll stick it in anything, they're at a party they're on a drunk girl before they leave. Girlfriend? Girlfriend isn't here! And so on.

It's not overriding for me. It's there but it doesn't work in real life. It's not even a mind-with-the-body thing; it's two parts of the mind that aren't working together, which I'm trying to fix. (And they tell me I need a therapist... what is she going to do, open her robe and slowly introduce me to sex in a non-stressful situation? That would be a huge violation of ethics!)


Yeah I never understood the jump on someone you just met myself and you will find that those guys get a lot of sex, but few relationships and even few repeats with the same woman. For me the sex part has always come after a long time of knowing the person with the shortest time between meeting and sex being 2 months but most have been around 6 months to a year. When you know a person that long the sex comes in stages starting with just touching like placing a hand on her leg, shoulder arm or around the waist. As time move on you both get comfortable and you start touching more of each other's bodies and then kissing. At some point your hands begin to venture under each other's clothes which in most cases leads to those clothes coming off soon after and your hands start to explore each other's nude bodies. Once both of you are nude and exploring oral stars to come into play and in most cases the woman will start, but if she doesn't it is always a good idea to kiss her breasts making sure to roll your tongue around her nipples. Timing is not a big issue but don't spend a great deal of time kissing her breasts before moving down towards the thighs and then to the vulva. It is important to do some reading on the vulva, because what you see in porn for the most part is not what you want to be doing when you are down there. In porn you see them mostly licking, but what you really want to be doing is sucking and flicking your tongue on her clitoris trust me on this I can make any woman have an orgasm in under two minutes without fail, though it is important to know that it is not a race so take your time. If you are with a good woman after you have taken care of her in this manner she will return the favor if you have not already entered into the 69. At this point you will both have had at least one orgasm so return to running your hands over each other and a little oral until you become erect again, if you have a good woman she will give you a helping hand. Intercourse is pretty straight forward just remember it is not just an in and out thing wiggle it around some and pull it out now and then to rub it around the vulva. If you have spent a good amount of time with the woman she will most often start this whole affair by undoing your pants during a heavy kissing session and taking out your penis which is a great way to tell if you don't already know whether she is willing to do oral or not by if she starts to give you oral or just uses her hand. That is just a ruff example and things might change up a bit, but that gives you a good idea of how things go when two people have known each other for some time before having sex.
 
2012-11-29 06:12:27 PM
man, I never get invited to those kinds of parties...

/runs away
 
2012-11-29 07:57:19 PM
Profedius

For those calling me an idiot even more so those that are telling there was no way she was willing you need to read the details, because she was very willing and she didn't bleed all over the place as some have suggested.

The early reports said she did.

How do you know otherwise?

Were you a participant?
 
HBK
2012-11-29 08:45:37 PM

MeanJean: Profedius

For those calling me an idiot even more so those that are telling there was no way she was willing you need to read the details, because she was very willing and she didn't bleed all over the place as some have suggested.

The early reports said she did.

How do you know otherwise?

Were you a participant?


This guy and his conversation with the other weirdo has been about the creepiest thing I've seen on fark.
 
2012-11-29 09:20:01 PM
And this is why I signed the petition for Texas to get kicked out of peacefully leave the Union.
 
HBK
2012-11-29 09:31:30 PM

NephilimNexus: And this is why I signed the petition for Texas to get kicked out of peacefully leave the Union.


Statistically, every rapist involved in this story likely would have voted for Obama (had they voted).
 
2012-11-29 09:42:52 PM

NephilimNexus: And this is why I signed the petition for Texas to get kicked out of peacefully leave the Union.


So, do you think Texas was too harsh, having rejected the lawyer's argument and sentenced the rapist in this story to the absolute maximum penalty legal under the rulings of the US Supreme Court a whole day before you commented? Or are you just another illiterate, ignorant, bigoted farktard moron shiathead?
 
2012-11-30 05:01:58 AM

Maul555: man, I never get invited to those kinds of parties...

/runs away


I wouldn't either - there would likely be 20 eunuchs before the 'fun' even started.
 
2012-11-30 08:27:36 AM

bluefoxicy: namegoeshere: People do not want to be told that you think an eleven year old child is a slut.

When I was 8 I knew a 9 year old that was~~~~

I didn't know what the hell crazy shiat she was on about, so declined to stick parts into other parts. Another boy a year younger introduced me to her...

People do not want to be told the truth when it's unpalatable. Like how kids hate to eat broccoli or brussle sprouts because they're bitter, but they're good for you somehow. They're food, even if they taste like poison.

Sometimes small children just ... have that spark. I knew a girl that never messed around with guys until she was 16, but since she was like 11 or 12 she's had it on her mind... she grew up uh. She became real friendly with a lot of boys in college.

Unfortunately most people don't like that particular spark. It's unfortunate because when you tell them you saw that spark, they tell you there's no such thing as that spark, and they don't believe it even when that spark ignites a trashcan and burns their house down around them. Often they'll even remain in the burning building, denying it's on fire. For example, in this case, the parents could deny that their precious angel could have been complicit at all, in which case she doesn't get in trouble, she gets to go out 'with friends', so she involves 2 or 3 of her 10 or 11 year old friends, and now there's 4 girls going out getting reamed by guys twice their age.

People value their views and beliefs more than the consequences of ignoring those beliefs and accepting that the world is sometimes not pretty and things happen that need to be addressed. Children are irresponsible (even most adults are irresponsible); if nothing else, the child could get HIV or wind up pregnant by the time she's 13, or (as I said) use her friends to give her parents a false sense of control and get them involved in these shenanigans.




[Whatthefarkamireading.jpg]

Yes, pubescent kids can have intense sexual desires, no one is unaware of that. It's not some "spark" that only you can see because you're so supposedly clear-headed, it's a simple biological fact. What's also a fact is that kids often have incredibly shiatty judgement about what's good for them, and adults have had enough time to learn that they shouldn't be taking advantage of that. It doesn't at all matter whether a kid fully intends to entice adults into having sex with her-- she doesn't have the mental maturity to understand the repercussions, and it's adults' obvious responsibility to recognize that fact!

Any non-mentally-challenged adult who succumbs to the wiles of a friggin' 11-year-old is still at fault, because they're the adults, the ones with developed brain that's supposed to tell them "no, I shouldn't".

Goddamn, I hope you're trolling.
 
2012-11-30 10:07:23 AM

MeanJean: Profedius

For those calling me an idiot even more so those that are telling there was no way she was willing you need to read the details, because she was very willing and she didn't bleed all over the place as some have suggested.

The early reports said she did.

How do you know otherwise?

Were you a participant?


Follow up reports indicate that the earlier reports of blood had no basis in fact and were a fabrication. No I wasn't there, I am white.
 
2012-11-30 02:19:11 PM
Profedius


Follow up reports indicate that the earlier reports of blood had no basis in fact and were a fabrication.


Gosh, that makes 20 dudes railing on an 11-year-old just a-farking-okay then.
 
2012-11-30 05:44:04 PM
Isildur:  It doesn't at all matter whether a kid fully intends to entice adults into having sex with her-- she doesn't have the mental maturity to understand the repercussions, and it's adults' obvious responsibility to recognize that fact!

Or rather, it matters (she should be given professional counseling), but not in terms of criminal responsibility -- it's an adult's responsibility to know what boundaries can't be crossed.

(As for cases of say a teenager and someone who has just turned legally adult, those can admittedly sometimes be more morally ambiguous cases, and I think some laws take that into consideration, but ultimately it's still the adult's responsibility to keep from crossing the legal limits, and be well-aware of the good reasons behind them. Even if the precise legal age seems like an artificial cutoff, given that people can mentally mature (and start being adequately capable of standing up to authority pressure) at somewhat different ages, a cutoff is the only practical means of upholding the general principle, and any compos mentis adult is aware of the boundaries. )
 
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