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(TSN)   Toronto Maple Leafs become the first ever NHL team valued at 1 billion dollars. In other news, incompetence is a valued commodity   (tsn.ca) divider line 56
    More: Amusing, Maple Leafs, NHL, Toronto, Winnipeg Jets, Calgary Flames, Boston Bruins, Blackhawks, Phoenix Coyotes  
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362 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 Nov 2012 at 5:21 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-28 05:03:18 PM
What does one billion dollars buy in the post-expansion era (1967-onward)?

Zero Stanley Cups
Zero Conference Championships
Zero President's Trophies
Zero Hart/Art Ross/Norris/Vezina Trophies

s9.postimage.org

soshable.com

/lifelong leafs fan
//glutton for punishment
 
2012-11-28 05:06:08 PM
mojoimage.com


Anyone know what this means? I think they're words, I'm not sure. Maybe heiroglyphics...it's so old...
 
2012-11-28 05:26:30 PM
whats this hockey? are they that former sport with the awesome commissioner
 
2012-11-28 05:27:35 PM

gopher321: [mojoimage.com image 640x558]


Anyone know what this means? I think they're words, I'm not sure. Maybe heiroglyphics...it's so old...


Christ, so much has changes since they last won.

I'm pretty sure the Hip will make an epic song when they finally do win. Better freeze them now.
 
2012-11-28 05:31:28 PM
Stupid Leafs fans.



Last time I was in Toronto during the hockey season I decided to try and check out a Leafs game. Even for a weeknight game against the Avalanche the cheapest ticket I could find was almost $100 for nosebleed seats in the 500's.

You guys seriously need a second team in that area: sad thing is that will never happen.
 
2012-11-28 05:32:58 PM
Wouldn't it have been easier for everyone if the author had just made a simple list and then commented on it?
 
2012-11-28 05:36:13 PM
In other news, incompetence is a valued commodity

Redskin and Cowboy fans know this all too well.
 
2012-11-28 05:54:09 PM
I wouldn't value Toronto for a billion dollars...
 
2012-11-28 06:04:09 PM
How the hell did the Leafs value jump from $521 million to 1 billion dollars in a single year?

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlm45kdmi/1-toronto-maple-leafs/
 
2012-11-28 06:10:56 PM

BunkyBrewman: How the hell did the Leafs value jump from $521 million to 1 billion dollars in a single year?

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlm45kdmi/1-toronto-maple-leafs/


I'd imagine being aquired by a joint ownership of two telecommunications giants had something to do with it.
 
2012-11-28 06:21:47 PM
Why bother improving, so long as they keep raking in the season tickets and selling out their games why should they care.

Financially it would cost them more to reorganize the team and make it be a Stanley Cup contender than it would to sit back in mediocrity and swim in the cash.
 
2012-11-28 06:25:00 PM

BunkyBrewman: How the hell did the Leafs value jump from $521 million to 1 billion dollars in a single year?

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlm45kdmi/1-toronto-maple-leafs/


Apparently, incompetence is so highly valued that not having your team play at all doubles your value.
 
2012-11-28 06:26:47 PM
NHL profits this year may be on the down side.
 
2012-11-28 06:27:40 PM
So if the Leafs won, they'd be worth 2 billion?!?

/Southern Ontario franchise FTW
 
2012-11-28 06:32:45 PM
So the Blues are the KC Royals of the NHL?
 
2012-11-28 06:37:23 PM
Actually, they're only worth as much as they're selling in merchandise...which is...I dunno. I guess you could add in the NBC TV revenue.
 
2012-11-28 06:42:09 PM
As a Habs fan, it would be easy to pile onto the Leafs fans...but it's not even funny for them. The average fan is priced out of seeing games live so that stuffy assholes can buy the tickets and leave halfway through the 3rd. They've had incompetent management that has squandered away their budget on washed up losers who were a few years or surgeries past their best. Aside from a small stretch in the late 90's, early 2000's where they went deep(er) into the playoffs, they've never had a very competitive team since their last cup win.

I may be a fan of their rival team...but I'm not a sadist. I honestly wish you guys better luck in the coming seasons...just not too lucky. Not before I gets mines.
 
2012-11-28 06:56:50 PM

Patterson: As a Habs fan, it would be easy to pile onto the Leafs fans...but it's not even funny for them. The average fan is priced out of seeing games live so that stuffy assholes can buy the tickets and leave halfway through the 3rd. They've had incompetent management that has squandered away their budget on washed up losers who were a few years or surgeries past their best. Aside from a small stretch in the late 90's, early 2000's where they went deep(er) into the playoffs, they've never had a very competitive team since their last cup win.

I may be a fan of their rival team...but I'm not a sadist. I honestly wish you guys better luck in the coming seasons...just not too lucky. Not before I gets mines.


Don't forget the early 90's and thank you for your kind words! Have you ever been to Toronto? Our College Street subway station has your colors on one side and the Leaf's colors on the other. Good rivalry indeed.
 
2012-11-28 07:11:37 PM

Patterson: As a Habs fan, it would be easy to pile onto the Leafs fans...but it's not even funny for them. The average fan is priced out of seeing games live so that stuffy assholes can buy the tickets and leave halfway through the 3rd. They've had incompetent management that has squandered away their budget on washed up losers who were a few years or surgeries past their best. Aside from a small stretch in the late 90's, early 2000's where they went deep(er) into the playoffs, they've never had a very competitive team since their last cup win.

I may be a fan of their rival team...but I'm not a sadist. I honestly wish you guys better luck in the coming seasons...just not too lucky. Not before I gets mines.


As a Bruins' fan, I concur... Besides, I've never had a problem with any Leafs' fans. They're fun to drink with. Spent many a night getting tanked in Sullivan's Tap with various Leafs' fans over the years. Good people. They deserve a team that respects them.
 
2012-11-28 07:12:05 PM
And yet, the League would like us all to know that its franchises are hemorrhaging money and the only way to stay solvent is to make the players pay for it.
 
2012-11-28 07:13:28 PM
Imagine what they;d be worth if they actually played hockey!
 
2012-11-28 07:27:09 PM

Patterson: As a Habs fan, it would be easy to pile onto the Leafs fans...but it's not even funny for them. The average fan is priced out of seeing games live so that stuffy assholes can buy the tickets and leave halfway through the 3rd. They've had incompetent management that has squandered away their budget on washed up losers who were a few years or surgeries past their best. Aside from a small stretch in the late 90's, early 2000's where they went deep(er) into the playoffs, they've never had a very competitive team since their last cup win.

I may be a fan of their rival team...but I'm not a sadist. I honestly wish you guys better luck in the coming seasons...just not too lucky. Not before I gets mines.


Well said. As a Wings fan the Leafs fans were tons of fun when they'd come to the Joe. I really do wish them the best. I would be fine with another southern Ontario franchise since I really would like new fans to be able to afford to see a game live in their own barn. Hamilton maybe?
 
2012-11-28 07:29:16 PM

Ishkur: And yet, the League would like us all to know that its franchises are hemorrhaging money and the only way to stay solvent is to make the players pay for it.


yes, and it was all due to the players forcing such an awful CBA onto the owners last time. shame on you players for giving into every demand, making the league record profits, and then expecting your contracts to be honored. how dare you!

/and no, you cant look at their *real* books
//what do you mean you have to count ALL profit sources!?!?!
 
2012-11-28 07:35:50 PM

Lego_Addict: Have you ever been to Toronto? Our College Street subway station has your colors on one side and the Leaf's colors on the other. Good rivalry indeed.


. . . I'm now picturing a kid in a Sens jersey, gently rocking back and forth on the edge of the platform in the foetal position, tears streaming down his face, quietly saying to himself "we exist, we exist, we exist . . . don't we?" 

/yeah, yeah, handbasket
 
2012-11-28 07:55:22 PM

caira: Lego_Addict: Have you ever been to Toronto? Our College Street subway station has your colors on one side and the Leaf's colors on the other. Good rivalry indeed.

. . . I'm now picturing a kid in a Sens jersey, gently rocking back and forth on the edge of the platform in the foetal position, tears streaming down his face, quietly saying to himself "we exist, we exist, we exist . . . don't we?" 

/yeah, yeah, handbasket


You did for a few years in the early 2000's, we had some good playoff series. Good times!
 
2012-11-28 07:57:41 PM

BunkyBrewman: How the hell did the Leafs value jump from $521 million to 1 billion dollars in a single year?

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlm45kdmi/1-toronto-maple-leafs/


Not playing hockey has really improved the viability of the Leaf brand.

// long suffering Leaf fan
 
2012-11-28 08:07:26 PM

Lego_Addict: caira: Lego_Addict: Have you ever been to Toronto? Our College Street subway station has your colors on one side and the Leaf's colors on the other. Good rivalry indeed.

. . . I'm now picturing a kid in a Sens jersey, gently rocking back and forth on the edge of the platform in the foetal position, tears streaming down his face, quietly saying to himself "we exist, we exist, we exist . . . don't we?" 

/yeah, yeah, handbasket

You did for a few years in the early 2000's, we had some good playoff series. Good times!


The Food Bank fine was a favorite offshoot of those series. My dad went to one of those games with a couple of bags and told me by the time he got there people were placing donations on the floor because the baskets were overloaded. It was harmless fun and went to a good cause.
 
2012-11-28 08:27:24 PM

Ishkur: And yet, the League would like us all to know that its franchises are hemorrhaging money and the only way to stay solvent is to make the players pay for it.



How exactly are the players paying for it? You signed a contract that states that an organization will pay you an X amount and maybe performance based bonuses. Your job is to do what you're paid to do and play the best you can. If the organization makes money or not it shouldn't matter to a player as long as the mutually agreed salary is paid. A player doesn't get less if the team loses money so why should they get more when they turn a profit?

Shane Doan should be the last player biatching about any of this (but still seems very vocal). Your team is the welfare case of the NHL!

Which brings me to............How does St.Louis make less money than Phoenix? Any Blues fans have any input on this?
 
2012-11-28 08:33:16 PM

hitmanric: A player doesn't get less if the team loses money


Ah, but that's exactly what the lockout is about.
 
2012-11-28 09:17:22 PM

Ishkur: hitmanric: A player doesn't get less if the team loses money

Ah, but that's exactly what the lockout is about.


Exactly what part of the lockout is about. Sad but both parties seem to have forgotton the whole spirit of what a contract is.

It's not that the players are entirely to blame. It's that they have to realize they have just as much to lose (if not more) as the owners. The NHL existed decades before the current players. It will still exist long after they've been forgotten, you're making assloads of money to play a game. Enjoy it while you're still relavent.
 
2012-11-28 09:20:30 PM

hitmanric: It's that they have to realize they have just as much to lose (if not more) as the owners.


The players do not need the NHL to play hockey for a living.
 
2012-11-28 11:55:40 PM

hitmanric: Ishkur: And yet, the League would like us all to know that its franchises are hemorrhaging money and the only way to stay solvent is to make the players pay for it.


How exactly are the players paying for it? You signed a contract that states that an organization will pay you an X amount and maybe performance based bonuses. Your job is to do what you're paid to do and play the best you can. If the organization makes money or not it shouldn't matter to a player as long as the mutually agreed salary is paid. A player doesn't get less if the team loses money so why should they get more when they turn a profit?

Shane Doan should be the last player biatching about any of this (but still seems very vocal). Your team is the welfare case of the NHL!

Which brings me to............How does St.Louis make less money than Phoenix? Any Blues fans have any input on this?


Not a Blues fan, but I can say three years of not being embezzled anymore has something to do with it.
 
2012-11-29 12:53:28 AM

Ishkur: hitmanric: It's that they have to realize they have just as much to lose (if not more) as the owners.

The players do not need the NHL to play hockey for a living.


They need it if they want the money they're accustomed to.

Both parties are losing big coin right now. It comes down who can afford to lose the most. The marquee players don't need to worry, the 3rd and 4th liners will be feeling the pinch sooner than later. 2mil NHL salary vs 150k swiss league salary.

That's what I think will make alot of the players start reconsidering.
 
2012-11-29 01:03:37 AM

spoony_pandora: Why bother improving, so long as they keep raking in the season tickets and selling out their games why should they care.

Financially it would cost them more to reorganize the team and make it be a Stanley Cup contender than it would to sit back in mediocrity and swim in the cash.


Hey, that's what the Sabres do, only without the swimming in cash part.
 
2012-11-29 01:07:08 AM

hitmanric: They need it if they want the money they're accustomed to.


No, not really.

In fact, they'd probably make more if they just formed their own league. When the labor is also the product, the ownership is not needed.
 
2012-11-29 01:16:25 AM

keylock71: Patterson: As a Habs fan, it would be easy to pile onto the Leafs fans...but it's not even funny for them. The average fan is priced out of seeing games live so that stuffy assholes can buy the tickets and leave halfway through the 3rd. They've had incompetent management that has squandered away their budget on washed up losers who were a few years or surgeries past their best. Aside from a small stretch in the late 90's, early 2000's where they went deep(er) into the playoffs, they've never had a very competitive team since their last cup win.

I may be a fan of their rival team...but I'm not a sadist. I honestly wish you guys better luck in the coming seasons...just not too lucky. Not before I gets mines.

As a Bruins' fan, I concur... Besides, I've never had a problem with any Leafs' fans. They're fun to drink with. Spent many a night getting tanked in Sullivan's Tap with various Leafs' fans over the years. Good people. They deserve a team that respects them.


Hey, while I'm in a saucy mood (read: drunk); I'd like to apologize for some douchey behavior a few year back when the Montreal and Boston faced each other in the 1st round and took it to 7 games. It was a great series between rivals and I remember taking shiat seriously at the time and making biatchy comments towards you in particular.

It sometimes takes a lockout to appreciate rival teams...I can't wait until I get to hate the Leaves, the Broons and their fans again :(

I miss hockey dammit.
 
2012-11-29 07:17:57 AM

Patterson: keylock71: Patterson: As a Habs fan, it would be easy to pile onto the Leafs fans...but it's not even funny for them. The average fan is priced out of seeing games live so that stuffy assholes can buy the tickets and leave halfway through the 3rd. They've had incompetent management that has squandered away their budget on washed up losers who were a few years or surgeries past their best. Aside from a small stretch in the late 90's, early 2000's where they went deep(er) into the playoffs, they've never had a very competitive team since their last cup win.

I may be a fan of their rival team...but I'm not a sadist. I honestly wish you guys better luck in the coming seasons...just not too lucky. Not before I gets mines.

As a Bruins' fan, I concur... Besides, I've never had a problem with any Leafs' fans. They're fun to drink with. Spent many a night getting tanked in Sullivan's Tap with various Leafs' fans over the years. Good people. They deserve a team that respects them.

Hey, while I'm in a saucy mood (read: drunk); I'd like to apologize for some douchey behavior a few year back when the Montreal and Boston faced each other in the 1st round and took it to 7 games. It was a great series between rivals and I remember taking shiat seriously at the time and making biatchy comments towards you in particular.

It sometimes takes a lockout to appreciate rival teams...I can't wait until I get to hate the Leaves, the Broons and their fans again :(

I miss hockey dammit.


No worries, my man! I never take shiat talking seriously. It's all part of the game as far as I'm concerned.
Montreal/Boston is quite possibly one of the best rivalries in the history of sports (Well, it is to me, anyway).

Boston/Montreal or Boston/Toronto are the two match ups I try to catch live at least once a season.

...and dammit, I miss NHL hockey, too. Thankfully, the Providence Bruins are only 15 minutes away, so I can still get my fix.

realtalksn.com
 
2012-11-29 08:24:42 AM

Ishkur: hitmanric: They need it if they want the money they're accustomed to.

No, not really.

In fact, they'd probably make more if they just formed their own league. When the labor is also the product, the ownership is not needed.


Where exactly would they play and still be able to demand the same amount of money?

Atlanta?
KC?
 
2012-11-29 08:55:09 AM

hitmanric: Where exactly would they play and still be able to demand the same amount of money?


Here.
 
2012-11-29 10:26:45 AM

Ishkur: hitmanric: Where exactly would they play and still be able to demand the same amount of money?

Here.


The NHL has been established for so long. Any new start-up league will not have the same draw or interest where anyone could demand the money they're currently makiing. Plus so many arenas are owned by team owners now you run into the problems of having decent venues.
 
2012-11-29 11:38:39 AM

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: Which brings me to............How does St.Louis make less money than Phoenix? Any Blues fans have any input on this?

Not a Blues fan, but I can say three years of not being embezzled anymore has something to do with it.


I'm sort of a Blues fan, but I'm not sure what you're talking about. The Lauries sold the team in 2006 (thank God) and Checketts just sold them again this past offseason, I believe. Or are you talking about when Towerbrook put them up for sale initially, at the end of the '10-'11 season?

As far as why they don't make any money, a few reasons. They've kept the ticket prices low in an effort to get fans back - the combination of the Lauries mismanagement and the lockout really crushed the team, so when Checketts came in in 2006 and brought John Davidson on board, they were committed to restructuring the roster in a big way. To keep the fans happy as the team went from mediocre to terrible, they actually cut ticket prices initially and have kept them fairly static over the last four-five years. That has helped them stay near the top in attendance, but they're not pulling the gate of other clubs.

Another reason they're not that profitable is because of the (lack of) success of the team. Last year was the first time they've made it past the first round of the playoffs in a decade, so they haven't been pulling in the playoff money that other clubs have. The extra gate, the TV bonuses, etc, haven't been there for the Blues for a long time, which has hurt the bottom line. And because the on-ice talent has been mediocre for a while, there hasn't been a lot of merchandising to take advantage of, either. You're still more likely to see Brett Hull jerseys at a game than David Backes jerseys (although that has been getting better). For the same reason, they don't get many top-tier TV games, with damn near all the schedule ending up on a regional Fox Sports channel. There's no local TV deal, just a radio deal, and they don't get on national TV more than once or twice a year, if that, and that's on VS.

And finally, probably the major reason, is that the Lauries farked the franchise with the arena deal. When they built the Kiel way back in the early 90s, part of the deal was to renovate the historic opera house right next door. Instead, the Lauries kept putting the project off for over a decade, wouldn't let anybody else take a stab at it, and then saddled the new ownership with it, who finally pulled it off. Oh, and the Kiel name didn't last long, either. The Lauries sold the naming rights and got a huge chunk of the payment in farking late 90s tech stocks. Yeah, that turned out real well a few years later. They don't do a bad job of keeping the place full, but they've made so many missteps in the past that it has hurt the bottom line.

So, TL;DR: 1) Stan Laurie farked this team so hard it's still hurting from the pounding, 2) there's no superstars to drive any sort of extra revenue sources, and 3) when Checketts was owner, he didn't squeeze the fans for every penny.

On paper, though, this should be a successful and profitable franchise. The roster is under control and they're always closer to the floor than the cap, the arena is full for home games and has plenty of other things going on year round to keep the money coming in, and the team improved dramatically last year and if they can stay good, they're going to get a lot more money/exposure from outside the geographic area. Hopefully Stillman doesn't screw the pooch on the whole shebang.
 
2012-11-29 12:54:39 PM

LemSkroob: /and no, you cant look at their *real* books
//what do you mean you have to count ALL profit sources!?!?!



The NHLPA has been provided with that information. But they're private documents, and you can be damn sure they won't be released to the general public.

Or did you forget that bit with the NHL backing a truck full of crated documents up to the NHLPA's office doors this summer?


Ishkur: hitmanric: They need it if they want the money they're accustomed to.

No, not really.

In fact, they'd probably make more if they just formed their own league. When the labor is also the product, the ownership is not needed.


This is laughably moronic.
 
2012-11-29 03:08:54 PM

hitmanric: Any new start-up league will not have the same draw or interest where anyone could demand the money they're currently makiing.


The best players will command the most attention and interest no matter where they play. They have a marketable skill.
 
2012-11-29 03:10:27 PM

cptjeff: Or did you forget that bit with the NHL backing a truck full of crated documents up to the NHLPA's office doors this summer?


Can you give me a source for this? I asked you last time but you're strangely silent when asked to back up your assertions.
 
2012-11-29 03:53:08 PM
How about we root out every business owned by every NHL owner and boycott those until this is fixed?
 
2012-11-29 06:12:13 PM

Ishkur: cptjeff: Or did you forget that bit with the NHL backing a truck full of crated documents up to the NHLPA's office doors this summer?

Can you give me a source for this? I asked you last time but you're strangely silent when asked to back up your assertions.


Strangely enough he also said that anybody who claimed to have insider info on the revenues/profits is a liar.
 
2012-11-29 06:20:37 PM

Ishkur: hitmanric: Any new start-up league will not have the same draw or interest where anyone could demand the money they're currently makiing.

The best players will command the most attention and interest no matter where they play. They have a marketable skill.


Even the likes of Crosby, Ovie, Luongoal would have a hard time getting that money anywhere else. The KHL would be the closest bet but even that would be a very select few who may make close to as much as before.
 
2012-11-29 06:38:57 PM

hitmanric: Even the likes of Crosby, Ovie, Luongoal would have a hard time getting that money anywhere else. The KHL would be the closest bet but even that would be a very select few who may make close to as much as before.


Who said anything about other leagues?
 
2012-11-29 08:37:06 PM
I've locked out the NHL for this season. They can start tomorrow and I won't care. I'll keep watching Canadian Major Junior, AHL, and KHL hockey instead.
If the Boston Bruins make the playoffs I may not be able to not watch, but I don't think that will be a problem

WWW.HOCKEYSTREAMS.COM
 
2012-11-30 08:33:13 AM

Ishkur: hitmanric: Even the likes of Crosby, Ovie, Luongoal would have a hard time getting that money anywhere else. The KHL would be the closest bet but even that would be a very select few who may make close to as much as before.

Who said anything about other leagues?


You did.
 
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