burndtdan: God created and manipulates the universe
This About That: Good for Pat Robertson, but WTF is "revealed science"? Is there also "secret science"?
Ego edo infantia cattus: They grow up so fast.
MrEricSir: They gave up on that teaching centuries ago. Turns out not being an asshole isn't conducive to spreading your religion.
eraser8: Son of Thunder: If only there were people who dedicated their careers to questions like this, who earned PhDs in fields like theology and biblical studiesThose are basically the sciences of explaining why the Bible doesn't really mean what it really says...which speaks to my point: when the Bible can mean whatever anyone wants it to mean, it doesn't mean anything at all.
Ego edo infantia cattus: [www.glennbeck.com image 600x396]They grow up so fast.
xynix: abb3w: Nohow, it's an inaccurate minimization to say Leviticus means "nothing" to "modern" Christians.From a historical outlook it's interesting and puts some things into perspective from a Christian standpoint. However it's outdated. The "revealed" knowledge of the New Testament confirms this and it's excluded as we're gentiles and not Jews. Fundies just blithely choose to ignore this fact or have no knowledge of this fact which means they have little knowledge of their own religion. They choose to use outdated arguments for their own personal distaste/hatred/whatever.FitzShivering: /really smart dude and a good hearted guy, who treats me like a human even though I share none of his beliefs, which is more than can be said for a lot of people out there in the religious argument landThe church I go to follows this doctrine. I have a magnet on my car that says "Love God, Love People" and it's the slogan if you will of our church. Gay people, Muslims, Atheists, etc are all our people and we're to love them as such. None of Christs teachings were exclusive but mostly inclusive which leaves those of us that are Christians with the "wiggle room" to accept and include people into our faith regardless of lifestyle. I realize I'm one of the few Christians who comment on this site and that's fine with me because the majority of your opinions are of value to me regardless of whatever religions background or affiliation you have.The one thing that many "Christians" fail to realize among various political topics is that Christ was very clear that the government perform only government acts. So even if Christ were to be against Gay marriage it's not relevant at the government level. Same with abortion which I'm strongly opposed to but feel should be legal for those who aren't of my faith. In the church there are mechanisms in place to help girls/women who might want to have an abortion. There are many children adopted because churches have stepped in and helped those girl ...
FitzShivering: So, in short, I agree with you.
FitzShivering: To be fair, while I am an atheist, a very good priest has now answered those very same questions in a way that likely would have kept me in the fold if I hadn't spent so many years examining all of my beliefs
eraser8: Marine1: Problem is, everything means what we want it to mean. We're humans.I'll agree to that. So, maybe we should stop pretending there's anything divine in the Bible. Or, at least, we should stop pretending the Bible is any more divine than anything written by Wittgenstein or Proust.All are the products of human imagination, so far as we can tell. And, none -- again, so far as we can tell -- was inspired by any supernatural agent.
xynix: Mentioning stuff like Leviticus is cute for Atheists to do but it means nothing to a modern Christian.
Vegan Meat Popsicle: Unless there's just nobody else available, there's no real reason to consider the opinions of people who say "god flicked the singularity and that started everything else, but I accept all the science after that point" anymore than you would people who say "god pissed in the dirt and made muck men out of the result, but I accept all the science after that point".
Jeremysbrain: Young Earth creationism is not a widely held belief despite what some may have everyone believe.
abb3w: This About That: Good for Pat Robertson, but WTF is "revealed science"? Is there also "secret science"?Well, it may be he's trying to indicate that there are still answers out there that science hasn't come up with or hasn't yet validated. But it is a very interesting word choice, given how "revealed knowledge" from God is usually religiously considered privileged from further question.
eraser8: burndtdan: It's only "god of the gaps" if you insist that something happens "because God, tada!", as if God were the methodology.I'm not technically addressing the "god of the gaps" argument. I'm posing a very simple question: if any part of the Bible can be taken as anything less than literal (that is, less that true), how can we know that any of it is true? And, who is to decide what's strict and true and what just poetic license?
Sick and Tired of Being Sick and Tired: It's been a REALLY long time since I've seen him post. I wonder if he's finally given up preaching to the unwashed masses of Fark.
Silverstaff: This post from May 27, 2012 is the last known post of his I could find.
burndtdan: I should clarify that it puts God outside the physical world we can experience, which puts the belief in God squarely in the realm of spiritual experience (or lack thereof). This does remove belief entirely from the realm of science.
Marine1: Ed Grubermann: Marine1: This view also, however, makes God an unknowable, unprovable element that exists beyond the world that we can experience. Which is why I'm an ...But that's not the God of the Bible, or the God of Jesus. Which is why you're a heretic.Oh teh noes./everyone iseraser8: burndtdan: Separate the parts that deal with philosophical or spiritual things (this at least gets to the true meaning of the religion) and the parts that deal with knowable, provable, physical things (incidental, often laughable attempts to explain how you can see those spiritual aspects at work in the world or history from an author who we should have no expectations from about greater knowledge than was available to him).If that's the case, I'll just repeat what I wrote to Marine1: then the Bible means whatever you want it to mean. But, any document that means whatever the reader wants it to mean ultimately means nothing./meanNot really. Stuff like "treat your neighbor as you'd like to be treated" is more or less foolproof and steadfast, unless you're a sociopath, in which case you need other help.
Kurmudgeon: No, he said it didn't take 6000 years, which if anyone ever read the account in Genesis, you would readily see that there is no way from the account given just how many years it took.Same as it doesn't state the length of time a Day of Creation was.
Vegan Meat Popsicle: More god of the gaps bullshiat that religionists use to backpeddle when they get proven plainly wrong about something yet again.
eraser8: The next task is for him to explain exactly how people are to distinguish the "poetic" or "metaphorical" aspects of the Bible from the literal.
Rev. Skarekroe: Pat Robertson is mellowing a bit in his old age.
common sense is an oxymoron: NutznGum: scannersexplodinghead.gifBevets may look something like that right about now.
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