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(Telegraph)   UK: I know, we'll tax the rich 50%. They'll just lie back and think of England. The rich: My oh my, but isn't tax exile lovely this time of year   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 281
    More: Obvious, Lib Dems, parliamentary debate, Ed Miliband, cull, tax rates, Britain, income taxes  
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10792 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Nov 2012 at 8:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-28 04:42:23 PM
Super-rich people don't live in London because they want low taxes. They live in London because they'd go to jail for life if they stayed in their native Moscow or Athens.

For one thing, the UK Government will finally get serious about cleaning up its overseas tax-havens, which will enable them to catch the rich on the re-bound.

You can run but you can't hide! If Cameron doesn't get you, Putin or the Greeks will get you!

Where are you gonna go? New Obamaland?

Well, there's an idea. Lowest taxes this side of Tokyo. Lots of luck buying a giant house in Tokyo. A $100 million apartment in Tokyo can be described as "cozy".

It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's right
I hope you had the time of your life

Read more: GREEN DAY - GOOD RIDDENCE LYRICS
 
2012-11-28 04:45:37 PM

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: "prosporous"


In favor of having spores?
 
2012-11-28 05:37:40 PM
Sell their land back to the state then.

"Taxes are up! Time to leave the nation that was kind enough to allow us to make millions."
 
2012-11-28 06:13:31 PM

SlothB77: Can you name a more prosperous period for a particular country/ organized group of people in the history of the world that lasted even half as long?


China - 618AD - 1279AD
 
2012-11-28 06:28:30 PM
A pension is a contractual obligation that both the worker and the company paid into.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension
Why are so many people frothing at the mouth trying to demonize people who collect pensions?

The company made a contractual promise and has an obligation to pay the employee their pension.

If the pension isn't funded properly, then it's the company's fault, NOT the employee for drawing the pension.
The employee is fulfilling their end of the contract - it's the company that is welching on their duty.

/sometimes I feel like I'm in bizarro world, where people should be paying companies for the honor of working, and companies can do no wrong.
 
2012-11-28 06:36:12 PM

Buffalo77: Lord Summerisle

Been working and paying a large chunk of my salary in tax and NI since I was 17, chum. Which is more than most of these rich coonts can say, most of whom owe their wealth to being born into the privileged classes and who use the loopholes and tax havens provided for them to avoid paying their share.

Sorry your Lordship but you are clueless. "The privileged class", really.


I wonder why he passed up the screenname Lord Schadenfreude.
 
2012-11-28 07:16:27 PM

thecpt: Arkanaut: I guess they'll be moving to Slovakia, the Czech Republic, Estonia or Poland? Why didn't they do that already?

Top marginal combined personal incomes tax rates in OECD countries (Excel file download)

Cool file. Totes moving to Estonia to be a job creator. And hopefully mack on eastern European chicks.

/that income line is depressing.


Did you mean for Estonia specifically? It's all about cost of living - There are lots of places in the world where salary is low, but so is just living. Granted, your savings will be shiat, but there are plenty of positives.

Estonia was already the most expensive of the three Baltic states and now is on the Euro. If it's anything like Slovakia, prices have climbed much faster than (rising) incomes. Anyway, if you're going to move so one of those places as a foreigner, you should probably be doing so with some specialized skill which will earn you more than the average income.

/would have a tough time choosin the ladies between Czech, Slovak, Estonian and Polish.
//OK, Slovak
 
2012-11-28 07:23:03 PM

onyxruby: Flat tax 20 regardless of income source. No penalty for success, fair for everyone. Get rid of all the corporate tax loopholes for sending jobs overseas etc.


That depends on whether a 20% tax rate would raise adequate revenue to meet expenditure. It's quite a low rate.
 
2012-11-28 07:25:39 PM

MarkEC: Taxes should be viewed as a means of raising revenue for the government. When you raise taxes and revenue falls, you are doing it wrong! Why is that such a hard lesson to learn?


It's more complicated than that. As someone already mentioned, it's possible that the wealthy are earning less because of the economic slowdown. So their tax contribution will also be less.
 
2012-11-28 07:26:23 PM

Fade2black: Lord Summerisle: They all left? Good. Piss off, you psychopathic bastards.

Who's gonna pay for your free stuff now?

God forbid you get up off your ass and work for a living.


What in the wide, wide world of sports are you talking about?
 
2012-11-28 07:28:03 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: Stop it. The difference between taxation and theft is that you don't get to elect representatives to the Thieves Guild to tell them how much to steal from you, much less contribute to their elections and try to influence their outcomes. You also don't get to tell those representatives what to do with that money.

Come to think of it, the Thieves Guild should really be more transparent.


You think your voice matters to the representatives?


FTFY

I think people in here also assume that tax havens charge NO taxes, when in fact they are lower tax rates. There are people with businesses outside of their home country who would prefer not to be taxed at high rates twice.
 
2012-11-28 07:54:31 PM
Who is John Gault?
 
2012-11-28 09:56:34 PM

Alonjar: *shrug* weak laws allowed this. I would be willing to bet that those people who "no longer live in Britain" are still drawing income and benefits of British citizenship from there.


Damn straight. They need stronger laws... Maybe a fence, too. Toss in some barbed wire and guard dogs and we're getting somewhere, right?
 
2012-11-28 10:16:46 PM

Cythraul: This is why we should just raise an army of the people, arrest them, and take what they have. Maybe even find a final solution for these pests later on.


Ur a clown

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
 
2012-11-29 01:19:12 AM
Lived off social welfare and willingly pays taxes in the UK: 

images.dailyexpress.co.uk
 
2012-11-29 02:19:56 AM
The simple solution is to out them; especially while they are away from their unprotected homes.
 
2012-11-29 03:29:51 AM

AaronSynn: Who is John Gault?


Willie's much slower cousin.
 
2012-11-29 03:57:27 AM
Keep in mind, people can simply work less and then they will disappear from the income rolls for their previous income. They don't need to move abroad.

Say you are a top notch heart surgeon and make a ton of money per operation, but each operation is a grueling 12 hour session, not to mention pre-op and post-op work.

If there were 0% taxes you would work as much as you liked compared to your love for leisure time.

Now imagine that there is a 100% tax rate. You would not do a single operation.

Now, in between, is where its gets tricky, but at the margin, there is always that "final" patient that is worth doing and the one that is not because you'd rather be home with the kids. When you increase taxes you change that calculation, ever so slightly, but the economy is huge, and so slight changes make a huge difference.

Many on the left cannot imagine these little marginal changes actually add up to affect the economy, but they do. Just imagine you are a comedian who makes $1,000 per gig, but you have to fly and travel and miss your kids and work week-ends...do you take that extra gig when the taxman takes 50%? 20%? 75%?

So, the claim that these bastards fled the country, and are not patriots may be false. They may instead they decide they love their wife and kids more than designing another building or whatever. I know, heartless rich bastards...I believe in times past we called them "wreckers" or "kulaks".
 
2012-11-29 04:46:01 AM

kronicfeld: onyxruby: Simplifying the tax code would save the economy Billions of dollars a year in accounting costs alone.

You think those dollars just disappear into Narnia now?


When a person pays for accounting services, he can't also use that money to buy other things. Get rid of all the accountants and we'd all have higher standards of living. So, in a way, yes, that money does disappear. Not all jobs benefit the economy; many jobs are parasites on the economy.
 
2012-11-29 04:48:39 AM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: DrPainMD: Arkanaut: Dadoody: There is no real reason ANYONE should be forced to pay a 50% tax on anything. That's not taxation - that's outright theft of income. What governments need to do, but will not, is live within their budgets and means.

Stop it. The difference between taxation and theft is that you don't get to elect representatives to the Thieves Guild to tell them how much to steal from you, much less contribute to their elections and try to influence their outcomes. You also don't get to tell those representatives what to do with that money.

Come to think of it, the Thieves Guild should really be more transparent.

So, if they raised the income tax on everybody to 99.99% and eliminated all deductions, that wouldn't be theft? Because we have elections?

/"It's not the people who vote that count; it's the people who count the votes."

No, the difference between taxation and theft is that, in theory, you get something of value for your taxes (schools, roads, police, your neighbors not having to rob your house so they can put food on the table). Theft is just theft, your money is gone and you'll never see it again.


All those things of value to the taxpayer could be paid for if taxes are cut by 75% or more. By that definition, it's still theft.
 
2012-11-29 04:49:54 AM

Cobataiwan: Keep in mind, people can simply work less and then they will disappear from the income rolls for their previous income. They don't need to move abroad.


It can get even MORE complicated. Human psychology is complex and varied. Take your surgeon. Let's say that he gets $10k per operation, including incidentals. As you say, it's grueling, he has to remain certified, etc...

Okay, let's say that his 'magic number' for being satisfied with life is $500k. With a 0% tax rate, he does 50 operations, with a 10% tax rate, he goes ahead and does 6 more operations. But, at 50% he can only reach 100 operations by getting perilously close to burning out, and may decide to 'settle' for $200k while only doing 40 operations a year. This can be especially pronounced with progressive tax rates - Only making $5k on that last operation might not be worth it for him, while the initial 1 at the full $10k is easily worth it.

Basically, a low tax rate can actually cause people to work more to meet what they consider a optimal quality of life/money supply.
 
2012-11-29 04:51:08 AM

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: DrPainMD: my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: This sounds lke a win-win type of story? They still can live lavishly on $250,000/year, wife can stay home with kids and the dog, her old job can be filled by someone who actually NEEDS a job to support their family (and who will pay taxes on the money they earn so the government will still get theirs whether it comes from this woman or not). What is bad about this?

Win-win? How so? With his wife's lack of income and him reducing/deferring his, they will have less to spend (costing the economy jobs) and will pay less in taxes (reducing the jobs that the government can create). Any way you look at it, the effect on GDP and jobs will be negative.

Nope, his wife isn't erasing her job, she is merely not working it anymore. There will be someone else filling her position. Spending her paycheck to increase the GDP and paying her taxes...all this situation did was oopen up a job for someone who obviously needs it more desperately and give the wife more time to spend with her family.


Literally every economist on the planet would disagree with you.
 
2012-11-29 04:56:22 AM

DrPainMD: When a person pays for accounting services, he can't also use that money to buy other things. Get rid of all the accountants and we'd all have higher standards of living. So, in a way, yes, that money does disappear. Not all jobs benefit the economy; many jobs are parasites on the economy.


Hey! My parents are accountants... Still, even if you went to a tax system that takes a single billable hour for Exxon to prepare their tax return, there would be plenty of work for them, you'd just drop something like 10-20% of the demand for accountants.

You're still very much correct that the money could go towards more productive use though, and 20% of the national demand for accountants isn't a minor thing. I'd compare the benefit as comparable to the development of the cash register. Heck, put the accountants towards helping to audit stuff and stamp out fraud, waste, and abuse.
 
2012-11-29 06:06:08 AM

DrPainMD: my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: DrPainMD: my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: This sounds lke a win-win type of story? They still can live lavishly on $250,000/year, wife can stay home with kids and the dog, her old job can be filled by someone who actually NEEDS a job to support their family (and who will pay taxes on the money they earn so the government will still get theirs whether it comes from this woman or not). What is bad about this?

Win-win? How so? With his wife's lack of income and him reducing/deferring his, they will have less to spend (costing the economy jobs) and will pay less in taxes (reducing the jobs that the government can create). Any way you look at it, the effect on GDP and jobs will be negative.

Nope, his wife isn't erasing her job, she is merely not working it anymore. There will be someone else filling her position. Spending her paycheck to increase the GDP and paying her taxes...all this situation did was oopen up a job for someone who obviously needs it more desperately and give the wife more time to spend with her family.

Literally every economist on the planet would disagree with you.


Suuuuuure they do buddy. Suuuuure they do.

/Sorry for angering the self-appointed economic world-boss of the internet.
//I would have thought he wouldn't be such an idiot though...
 
2012-11-29 09:03:07 AM
My client has been declared dead for tax purposes.
 
2012-11-29 09:58:12 AM
This sounds legit and in no way like propaganda.
 
2012-11-29 02:49:32 PM
This is pathetic. Leaving your homeland because you see it as oppressive and you are against taxation without representation. You would never catch my country's founding fathers doing such a thing.

To everyone who say the rich should be taxed more: Did you fail at math? Do you understand how percentages work? Do you actually believe this statement: 25% of 20,000 = 25% 20,000,000 is true?
 
2012-11-29 03:22:01 PM

Keeve: This is pathetic. Leaving your homeland because you see it as oppressive and you are against taxation without representation. You would never catch my country's founding fathers doing such a thing.

To everyone who say the rich should be taxed more: Did you fail at math? Do you understand how percentages work? Do you actually believe this statement: 25% of 20,000 = 25% 20,000,000 is true?


I wasn't aware that the rich lost their right to vote. I wonder why they bother throwing billions of dollars into the political field then.
 
2012-11-29 05:47:23 PM

TheVeryDeadIanMartin: Lived off social welfare and willingly pays taxes in the UK: 

[images.dailyexpress.co.uk image 285x214]


Did you happen to see Rowling on the Daily Show, talking about that? Made the heart stir, someone who understands what taxes are for and they good they can do.
 
2012-11-29 07:00:17 PM

JosephFinn: Made the heart stir, someone who understands what taxes are for and they good they can do.


The operative word there is CAN.

As in "the Cubs CAN win the World Series" or "Kate WInslet and Vera Farmiga CAN decide they want to have a three-way with me tonight."
 
2012-11-30 08:24:18 AM

giftedmadness: Cythraul: This is why we should just raise an army of the people, arrest them, and take what they have. Maybe even find a final solution for these pests later on.

Ur a clown

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.


You're a slave. Keep eating the shiat your 'betters' give you while telling them how good it tastes.
 
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