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(NHL)   City of Glendale approves arena lease agreement for the Phoenix Coyotes, leaving Coyotes fan very happy that the team is staying   (coyotes.nhl.com) divider line 49
    More: Stupid, coyotes, Sharks, New Hampshire  
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393 clicks; posted to Sports » on 28 Nov 2012 at 11:25 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-28 09:02:16 AM  
While Phoenix was not a great experience over all, I have to say, that I miss the Arena and a good number of folks involved with the Arena and the team. Great professional experience, absolutely idiotic personal one, save for a few folks attached to the Arena.
 
2012-11-28 10:19:04 AM  
So is the City of Glendale still going to float eight figure checks to the team to pad their losses?

You know, once they actually start playing again and go back to hemorrhaging cash.
 
2012-11-28 10:39:01 AM  
I know technically speaking thanks to my home team's horrible owner none of them exist right now, but if they did, how the fark do the Coyotes continue to exist? It's almost like it's Betteman's personal line in the sand when it comes to his dystopian opinion about Southern hockey teams....
 
2012-11-28 10:52:05 AM  

FriarReb98: I know technically speaking thanks to my home team's horrible owner none of them exist right now, but if they did, how the fark do the Coyotes continue to exist? It's almost like it's Betteman's personal line in the sand when it comes to his dystopian opinion about Southern hockey teams....


Especially, in the wake of last year's playoffs...
 
2012-11-28 11:28:05 AM  
On to more important Hockey Things: Do we know who Cheap Throat is yet?
 
2012-11-28 11:29:29 AM  

Rev.K: So is the City of Glendale still going to float eight figure checks to the team to pad their losses?

You know, once they actually start playing again and go back to hemorrhaging cash.


And still no team in KC, Milwaukee, Quebec, or Seattle.
 
2012-11-28 11:32:42 AM  

FriarReb98: It's almost like it's Betteman's personal line in the sand when it comes to his dystopian opinion about Southern hockey teams....


That's exactly what it is.

Gary Bettman would rather destroy the sport than admit the Southern strategy failed.
 
2012-11-28 12:03:58 PM  

sigdiamond2000: Gary Bettman would rather destroy the sport than admit the Southern strategy failed.


then why did the league approve the Atlanta-to-Winnipeg thing in like a month?

Gary Bettman doesn't get to dictate where teams go. If he was the holdup, they'd just fire him.
 
2012-11-28 12:10:16 PM  
Canadian Province Massive Electrostatic Discharge's head will explode in 3...2...1...
 
2012-11-28 12:12:16 PM  

sigdiamond2000: That's exactly what it is.

Gary Bettman would rather destroy the sport than admit the Southern strategy failed.



I still can't for the life of me figure out why the 29 owners are standing behind this turd in Phoenix. Since 2009, when the league took over ownership of the team, the Coyotes are operating exclusively on the dime of all other owners.

If I was a huge revenue contributor like Toronto or Montreal or New York, I'd be furious that my cash is going down the sewer year after year in Arizona.

16 years in the desert and not a penny made. FFS, why are they still there?
 
2012-11-28 12:14:37 PM  
It don't mean shiat if the NHL isn't playing. I'll withhold all excitement until the owners and Fehr get their heads out of their asses and get a deal done.

/FYI, a bunch of players are scrimmaging at the Coyotes part time practice facility in Scottsdale this week
//Just read that Sidney Crosby is joining them today
 
2012-11-28 12:16:35 PM  

Rev.K: sigdiamond2000: That's exactly what it is.

Gary Bettman would rather destroy the sport than admit the Southern strategy failed.


I still can't for the life of me figure out why the 29 owners are standing behind this turd in Phoenix. Since 2009, when the league took over ownership of the team, the Coyotes are operating exclusively on the dime of all other owners.

If I was a huge revenue contributor like Toronto or Montreal or New York, I'd be furious that my cash is going down the sewer year after year in Arizona.

16 years in the desert and not a penny made. FFS, why are they still there?


Because the owners tell Bettman what to do and they backed keeping them in Phoenix? How many times do I have to tell you people that Bettman works for the owners and not the other way around?

I swear, talking to a brick wall would be more productive sometimes.
 
2012-11-28 12:22:23 PM  
END THE LOCKOUT!

/Or at least bring a minor league team back to the Richmond Colosseum, I miss my hockey fix
 
2012-11-28 12:24:30 PM  

desertgeek: Because the owners tell Bettman what to do and they backed keeping them in Phoenix? How many times do I have to tell you people that Bettman works for the owners and not the other way around?


Did you read what I said?

I acknowledged that its the 29 owners that support this, not just Bettman.

That's the whole point of what I posted. 29 owners have said, it's ok Phoenix, our revenues will keep you alive.
 
2012-11-28 12:25:38 PM  

Rev.K: sigdiamond2000: That's exactly what it is.

Gary Bettman would rather destroy the sport than admit the Southern strategy failed.


I still can't for the life of me figure out why the 29 owners are standing behind this turd in Phoenix. Since 2009, when the league took over ownership of the team, the Coyotes are operating exclusively on the dime of all other owners.

If I was a huge revenue contributor like Toronto or Montreal or New York, I'd be furious that my cash is going down the sewer year after year in Arizona.

16 years in the desert and not a penny made. FFS, why are they still there?


To build a hockey culture where there was none.

The Coyotes tried out their first native born Arizonian for the NHL. That's why they're in Phoenix. To build up a hockey culture, from the ground up. That means kids' programs, high school, college, and on. It is odd, given the current situation, but it is a strategy of investment in the future.

For the folks who are upset at the move of the Coyotes to Phoenix, look at the population of the city of Phoenix compared to the entire province of Manitoba. In a metro and surrounding metro area, you have over 4,000,000 people.

Gretzky should have given over the coaching duties years ago. Tippet did an amazing job with the team in his run, and that is sort of what he does. After last season, I am bitter as Hells at this intransigence on the owners, because it's hurting not just the players and fans, but cities that the teams are in as well. It was a season that upset a lot of ideas about the expansion teams, and now, we are back to square one...
 
2012-11-28 12:28:01 PM  
Hockey in a warm weather climate with no history of winter sports will never be profitable. They will just go bankrupt again.
 
2012-11-28 12:29:37 PM  
Suck it ontariolightning?

/end the lockout, or end the season
//just end something now
 
2012-11-28 12:30:37 PM  
I want to feel glad that they're staying but since my own team is leaving, I'm annoyed that Quebec City has to wait until expansion to get a new team and I don't expect that to occur anytime soon.
 
2012-11-28 12:32:32 PM  

Rev.K: desertgeek: Because the owners tell Bettman what to do and they backed keeping them in Phoenix? How many times do I have to tell you people that Bettman works for the owners and not the other way around?

Did you read what I said?

I acknowledged that its the 29 owners that support this, not just Bettman.

That's the whole point of what I posted. 29 owners have said, it's ok Phoenix, our revenues will keep you alive.


Actually, only 8 owners have to say it's OK. Once in place Bettman only needs 8 votes to do what he wants.
 
2012-11-28 12:32:45 PM  

hubiestubert: To build a hockey culture where there was none.

The Coyotes tried out their first native born Arizonian for the NHL. That's why they're in Phoenix. To build up a hockey culture, from the ground up. That means kids' programs, high school, college, and on. It is odd, given the current situation, but it is a strategy of investment in the future.



I'd be more accepting of this strategy if it were a real problem. Canada, the United States, Russia, Sweden, Finland and the Czech Republic are cranking out just as much high quality hockey talent as they ever have. There is no need to go and look for other sources of talent, especially where that talent would be starting from ground zero.

hubiestubert: For the folks who are upset at the move of the Coyotes to Phoenix, look at the population of the city of Phoenix compared to the entire province of Manitoba. In a metro and surrounding metro area, you have over 4,000,000 people.


Yet they can't turn a profit, even once, in 16 years.

hubiestubert: Gretzky should have given over the coaching duties years ago. Tippet did an amazing job with the team in his run, and that is sort of what he does. After last season, I am bitter as Hells at this intransigence on the owners, because it's hurting not just the players and fans, but cities that the teams are in as well. It was a season that upset a lot of ideas about the expansion teams, and now, we are back to square one...


I do agree with you here. This lockout comes at a very unfortunate time for Phoenix. Dave Tippet did a great job and took them on a deep run which could have had a real impact on getting a solid fanbase going, but that momentum has come to a screeching halt.
 
2012-11-28 12:34:49 PM  
All of this traditional vs. nontraditional market stuff is moot if the NHL leadership (both players and owners) are going to insist on killing the league by staging a protracted work stoppage every damn time the CBA expires.

Hockey is my favorite sport and the NHL is my favorite thing to watch on TV, and that will remain the case however this thing finally gets settled. But mostly I just find it mind-boggling how myopic and short-sighted the league is being. Do they not realize how much damage they are inflicting on themselves. There are a lot of fans going to be lost. Most of the casual fans painstakingly gained in recent years have already found other things to do, and a lot of the diehards are a lot angrier and less forgiving than I am. Any "victory" the owners win here is going to be a pyrrhic one, as it will take the NHL several years to recover.
 
2012-11-28 12:35:18 PM  

macdaddy357: Hockey in a warm weather climate with no history of winter sports will never be profitable.


except in all the places that it is
 
2012-11-28 12:39:52 PM  

Rev.K: desertgeek: Because the owners tell Bettman what to do and they backed keeping them in Phoenix? How many times do I have to tell you people that Bettman works for the owners and not the other way around?

Did you read what I said?

I acknowledged that its the 29 owners that support this, not just Bettman.

That's the whole point of what I posted. 29 owners have said, it's ok Phoenix, our revenues will keep you alive.


Sorry. Chalk it up to hearing the same bullshiat for the last few years and having instant reactions to it.

Rev.K: hubiestubert: Gretzky should have given over the coaching duties years ago. Tippet did an amazing job with the team in his run, and that is sort of what he does. After last season, I am bitter as Hells at this intransigence on the owners, because it's hurting not just the players and fans, but cities that the teams are in as well. It was a season that upset a lot of ideas about the expansion teams, and now, we are back to square one...

I do agree with you here. This lockout comes at a very unfortunate time for Phoenix. Dave Tippet did a great job and took them on a deep run which could have had a real impact on getting a solid fanbase going, but that momentum has come to a screeching halt.


Exactly. Keep in mind that the last lockout started 7 months after that very arena in Glendale opened and the Coyotes were on the upswing at that time too. Add on that the other local teams here aren't anything special (in a good way) and this year had massive potential until the owners f*cked it up.

/F*ck the owners
 
2012-11-28 12:40:40 PM  
Last year this time, this thread would have had 100 posts by now.

The damage is clearly visable.
 
2012-11-28 12:44:00 PM  

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: Suck it ontariolightning?

/end the lockout, or end the season
//just end something now


He is technically now banned from all hockey fark threads this season (bet he made with me after the Cup).

Of course, there is no season.

Sigh.
 
2012-11-28 12:45:10 PM  

Rev.K: hubiestubert: To build a hockey culture where there was none.

The Coyotes tried out their first native born Arizonian for the NHL. That's why they're in Phoenix. To build up a hockey culture, from the ground up. That means kids' programs, high school, college, and on. It is odd, given the current situation, but it is a strategy of investment in the future.


I'd be more accepting of this strategy if it were a real problem. Canada, the United States, Russia, Sweden, Finland and the Czech Republic are cranking out just as much high quality hockey talent as they ever have. There is no need to go and look for other sources of talent, especially where that talent would be starting from ground zero.

hubiestubert: For the folks who are upset at the move of the Coyotes to Phoenix, look at the population of the city of Phoenix compared to the entire province of Manitoba. In a metro and surrounding metro area, you have over 4,000,000 people.

Yet they can't turn a profit, even once, in 16 years.

hubiestubert: Gretzky should have given over the coaching duties years ago. Tippet did an amazing job with the team in his run, and that is sort of what he does. After last season, I am bitter as Hells at this intransigence on the owners, because it's hurting not just the players and fans, but cities that the teams are in as well. It was a season that upset a lot of ideas about the expansion teams, and now, we are back to square one...

I do agree with you here. This lockout comes at a very unfortunate time for Phoenix. Dave Tippet did a great job and took them on a deep run which could have had a real impact on getting a solid fanbase going, but that momentum has come to a screeching halt.


It's not so much where the talent comes from. For example, there's a reason the NFL keeps going back to London for games. They need to grow the audience. The NHL is just trying to do the same thing. It's too bad they have that deal in Glendale, though. They should be sharing a building with the Suns, somewhere in Phoenix. It was silly to think a hockey team could be the main tenant for an arena in the suburbs.
 
2012-11-28 12:47:42 PM  

Rev.K: hubiestubert: I'd be more accepting of this strategy if it were a real problem. Canada, the United States, Russia, Sweden, Finland and the Czech Republic are cranking out just as much high quality hockey talent as they ever have. There is no need to go and look for other sources of talent, especially where that talent would be starting from ground zero.


It's not just about the talent pool, but the interest. Kids who play hockey, tend to stay interested. Guys who play in local leagues. Their families stay interested. It's not just about growing a pool of talent, but growing a pool of local fans, as opposed to just interested transplants who then leave the market in a few years. It's about growing the sport.

That you can find hockey in LA is shocking, but that you can have hockey fans in LA who are native born Angelinos, is even more shocking. Same with Phoenix.
 
2012-11-28 12:53:26 PM  

Funzo: It's not so much where the talent comes from. For example, there's a reason the NFL keeps going back to London for games. They need to grow the audience. The NHL is just trying to do the same thing. It's too bad they have that deal in Glendale, though. They should be sharing a building with the Suns, somewhere in Phoenix. It was silly to think a hockey team could be the main tenant for an arena in the suburbs.


You mean across the street from Cardinals stadium? Just down the road from a couple of MLB training camps? Yeah, Tempe has their camps as well--LOVE the facilities down in Tempe Diablo--but Glendale and the city planners are looking to develop the areas and get traffic moving and boost businesses in those areas as well. Glendale Arena does more than hockey--the Navaho tribes hold basketball in the Arena and a lot of high school teams as well. It's about servicing the community all around. Phoenix has some boneheaded ideas on development sometimes, but in this case, I can see what they're trying to accomplish, and why they're sweetening the pot, and it gets butts in more than just seats in the Arena, but in restaurants, hotels, and clubs in the area as well.
 
2012-11-28 01:30:42 PM  

hubiestubert: It's not just about the talent pool, but the interest. Kids who play hockey, tend to stay interested. Guys who play in local leagues. Their families stay interested. It's not just about growing a pool of talent, but growing a pool of local fans, as opposed to just interested transplants who then leave the market in a few years. It's about growing the sport.

That you can find hockey in LA is shocking, but that you can have hockey fans in LA who are native born Angelinos, is even more shocking. Same with Phoenix.



Have the benefits been worth the costs?

Obviously, I'd say no.
 
2012-11-28 01:41:29 PM  

poisonedpawn78: Last year this time, this thread would have had 100 posts by now.

The damage is clearly visable.


The reaction to posts on the NHL Facebook page is hilarious.
NHL: "Hey everyone, check out these awesome videos from 2 years ago"
Everyone: "STFU & GBTW"
 
2012-11-28 01:43:30 PM  

Rev.K: hubiestubert: It's not just about the talent pool, but the interest. Kids who play hockey, tend to stay interested. Guys who play in local leagues. Their families stay interested. It's not just about growing a pool of talent, but growing a pool of local fans, as opposed to just interested transplants who then leave the market in a few years. It's about growing the sport.

That you can find hockey in LA is shocking, but that you can have hockey fans in LA who are native born Angelinos, is even more shocking. Same with Phoenix.


Have the benefits been worth the costs?

Obviously, I'd say no.


As someone who used to be employed at Glendale Arena, and at Cricket Pavilion and Tempe Diablo, I'd say that there are some folks who are glad to see the teams there.
 
2012-11-28 02:12:35 PM  
Glendale could've saved more than $100 million and just bought the damn team themselves.
 
2012-11-28 03:34:08 PM  

Rev.K: Have the benefits been worth the costs?

Obviously, I'd say no.


Can you quantify and accurately assess the costs and benefits right now? How about in 5 years? Or 10? Or 20?

I do think contraction should be on the table, but I also agree (in principle) with the idea of southern expansion. The NHL, and any professional league, is first and foremost a business, and any business needs to focus on growth. You'd be hard-pressed to find a successful business model based on "let's just keep the status quo" because current and potential investors, shockingly, want to earn successful and long-term returns. Now, "growth" doesn't necessarily equal expansion teams, but the NHL was in the odd position, comparatively speaking, of having virtually no interest or foothold south of the Mason-Dixon line as of 15 or so years ago, and having such a huge swath of geography and population in the same country you're trying to negotiate national television deals presents some obstacles. Perhaps he backed the wrong horses, but, that's a swing you have to take.
 
2012-11-28 03:35:48 PM  

Killer Cars: and having such a huge swath of geography and population be a black hole...


How did I lose that in my post?
 
2012-11-28 03:51:39 PM  

Killer Cars: Can you quantify and accurately assess the costs and benefits right now? How about in 5 years? Or 10? Or 20?


16 years, zero profit made. Since 2009, a complete and total net drain on league revenues.

If Phoenix was a critical step to the southern expansion strategy, it has been a very expensive one. In most cases, such an expense should yield a halfway decent return.

I don't see much of a return at all from Phoenix. There is a case that can be made for others like Nashville and Carolina, but Phoenix is lost cause.
 
2012-11-28 05:19:03 PM  
 
2012-11-28 06:02:37 PM  

Rev.K:

16 years in the desert and not a penny made. FFS, why are they still there?


My favourite conspiracy theory is: Phoenix keeps the salary cap down. If they were to move to Southern Ontario or Quebec, they would be much more successful and as a result the salary cap for all the other teams would rise. As it is, the other 29 owners haven't had to pay for the Coyotes' losses -- the city of Glendale has cut them a big cheque at the end of the last couple of seasons, right?
 
2012-11-28 06:09:28 PM  

Rectum damn near killed em: In other news, fark Jeremy Jacobs


It's about bloody time somebody wrote that article. I've been force fed utter BS from Cox and Simmons and other "blame the players" sycophants since this crap started.
 
2012-11-28 06:24:55 PM  

Rectum damn near killed em: In other news, fark Jeremy Jacobs


Why does this not shock me one bit? I hope that starts the movement to force Jacobs out.
 
2012-11-28 07:04:52 PM  

desertgeek: Rectum damn near killed em: In other news, fark Jeremy Jacobs

Why does this not shock me one bit? I hope that starts the movement to force Jacobs out.


Jacobs goes, Bettman's name is numbered.
 
2012-11-28 07:05:27 PM  
*days
 
2012-11-28 07:36:10 PM  

Rev.K: That's the whole point of what I posted. 29 owners have said, it's ok Phoenix, our revenues will we will slash player salaries and benefits to keep you alive.


FTFY.
 
2012-11-28 07:38:23 PM  

hubiestubert: To build a hockey culture where there was none.


Supply Side economics just needs more time, say Republicans! That trickle-down is going to come any day now!
 
2012-11-28 07:54:05 PM  
Good News: Yotes are staying

Bad News: FARK BETTMAN! FARK YOU TO HELL!
 
2012-11-28 08:35:54 PM  

eddievercetti: Good News: Yotes are staying

Bad News: FARK BETTMAN! FARK YOU TO HELL!


Pretty damn much. My friends out there are feeling the pain. The Arena is still booking events, but it's not the same.
 
2012-11-28 08:47:57 PM  

hubiestubert: eddievercetti: Good News: Yotes are staying

Bad News: FARK BETTMAN! FARK YOU TO HELL!

Pretty damn much. My friends out there are feeling the pain. The Arena is still booking events, but it's not the same.


Co-signed. I've mentioned before that I have family that work at the Phoenix Suns arena and they were having a hard time last year with the NBA lockout.
 
2012-11-29 08:54:36 AM  
LOL at "building a hockey culture". Please. Have you seen what ratings the NHL pulls in those southern markets, INCLUDING the Bay Area?

The Sharks TV ratings are still a tire fire compared to the Warriors, and the Warriors have only approached relevance ONCE in the last 15 years.

General NHL TV ratings aren't faring equally to the Sharks in the Bay Area.


Once you get into Anaheim and LA ratings (please, tell me more about how the Cup Run last year changed everything and how the Kings didn't average 0.1 for the regular season), its still a failure.

Ooh, more kids are playing the game! Whoopty freakin' doo. Apparently when push comes to shove, the Cardinals still kick the shiat out of the Coyotes in TV ratings.

Southern Expansion? Sure. What we got was southern OVERexpansion. Phoenix is a failure. try again when the league doesn't need to lockout the players 3 times in 15 years.
 
2012-11-29 09:07:52 AM  

Flappyhead: Rectum damn near killed em: In other news, fark Jeremy Jacobs

It's about bloody time somebody wrote that article. I've been force fed utter BS from Cox and Simmons and other "blame the players" sycophants since this crap started.


To be fair, there has been a movement to get rid of Jacobs for a long long long long time. I grew up hearing yearly grumbles about Jacobs never willing to spend that little extra cash to make it all the way. That Jacobs just wanted to make the first round of the playoffs to get that extra gate and beer money. That Jacobs and Harry Sinden were clueless, useless, drunks.

It had somewhat quieted down after the Cup victory in 2011, but us New Englanders know how to hold a grudge.

This is from 2009, but it could go all the way back to 1993. Very NSFW language...

FU Jeremy Jacobs (Link) 

From 2010:
It's Time for the Boston Bruins To Dump the Jeremy Jacobs Regime Link
 
2012-11-29 10:03:01 AM  

WSUCanuck: LOL at "building a hockey culture". Please. Have you seen what ratings the NHL pulls in those southern markets, INCLUDING the Bay Area?

The Sharks TV ratings are still a tire fire compared to the Warriors, and the Warriors have only approached relevance ONCE in the last 15 years.

General NHL TV ratings aren't faring equally to the Sharks in the Bay Area.


Once you get into Anaheim and LA ratings (please, tell me more about how the Cup Run last year changed everything and how the Kings didn't average 0.1 for the regular season), its still a failure.

Ooh, more kids are playing the game! Whoopty freakin' doo. Apparently when push comes to shove, the Cardinals still kick the shiat out of the Coyotes in TV ratings.

Southern Expansion? Sure. What we got was southern OVERexpansion. Phoenix is a failure. try again when the league doesn't need to lockout the players 3 times in 15 years.




Football and basketball appeal to the lowest common denominator...as does watching these televised karaoke contests...It's easy to understand and since so many schmucks at the office watch it, why wouldn't you do the same so you have something to talk about other than how much your job sucks and how getting married and having kids ruined your life. Or something like that.
 
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