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(Slashdot)   Good news: Oceans are not rising like researchers predicted. Bad news: Oceans are rising *faster* than researchers predicted   (science.slashdot.org) divider line 147
    More: Scary, researchers predicted, Electric energy consumption, purpose in life, soylent greens  
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7332 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Nov 2012 at 10:21 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-28 10:57:01 AM

clane: just wait 10 more years we will be back to the global cooling scare

[greenplanetethics.com image 400x527]


I found you problem ... you get your science from magazines. Only morons do that.
 
2012-11-28 10:58:35 AM
Let's just get this out of the way:
i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-28 11:00:28 AM
I'm just waiting for this stupid species to go extinct, the planet needs new management.
 
2012-11-28 11:00:58 AM

Farking Canuck: I found you problem ... you get your science from magazines. Only morons do that.


Well, I DO like my subscription to Scientific American (even after the format change), and I read the Economist regularly, but TIME is pretty much out of the question.
 
2012-11-28 11:01:37 AM

spentmiles: mankind has managed to destroy a 4.5 billion year old planet.


Oh please. We haven't destroyed the earth. The earth, and life will go on just as it has for ages.
We just won't be on earth anymore. We have destroyed ourselves.
 
2012-11-28 11:03:42 AM

Grungehamster: ...before going into another topic within the next month to claim the EPA should be eliminated because it exists only a tool for Obama to attempt to strike down capitalism.


They've done that ever since the EPA was in Jimmy Carter's hands! Other things that are an "evil socialist conspiracy to bring down capitalism" - OSHA, Peace Corps, the Consumer Credit Protection Act, Unemployment Insurance, and many others.
 
2012-11-28 11:04:01 AM

Pocket Ninja: The problem with these "OMG the sky is falling" climate-change horror predictions is that nobody looks at the big pictures. Oceanographers just look at oceans, Geographers just look at earth. Weatherographers just look at their latest Super Doppler7000 and circle their arms around weather patterns. And so on.

See, data is meaningless when it's taken as an isolated point. See, for example, here's a piece of data:

2230

Impressive, right? Now, if I just told you that number and said it was vitally important, what would happen? I'll tell you what: an entire realm of science would pop into being dedicated to finding out what that number means, how it impacts our life. By the time the 2230ists were finished, the Theory of 2230 would relate to everything. Then other scientists would come along and say, no, you guys are wrong, the real Theory of 2230 is *this*. And so on, and so on, and so on. That's what scientists *do*. They create meaning for things, then other scientists create another meaning, then they argue, then the government gives them grant money.

And here's the kicker: the truth is that 2230 *is* important, but each of them is just looking at it in isolation. Without understanding the big picture. They don't know how all the parts fit together, or even what the parts are. And so they're all wrong.

Don't get it? OK, let's try it this way. Let's pull back the lens a bit, subby, take a look at the situation you're describing. Water levels are rising. Oooh, scary. They're rising faster than predicted. OOOOOOH, scarier. But what happens when you increase the total amount of water in a given surface? Hm?

Volume, remember that? The water's volume increases. OK, see that's something that an oceanographer doesn't consider, because it's about math. So tell me: what happens when a water's volume increases?

That's right, very good. The water becomes heavier. Because there's more of it. Need proof? Here's an experiment for you to conduct: pick up a 5-gallon jug of water. Now pick up a 1-gallon jug. Which is heavier?

So what happens when the water's weight increases? Well, now we're into geography, another part of the big picture. The heavier water pushes down on the ocean's floor. Now, in some places, that will actually make the ocean deeper -- sort of like when the bottom of a plastic dish bows outward. In other places, though, the heavier water won't be able to actually move the floor, but will put tremendous pressure on it. TREMENDOUS pressure. And what happens when you put tremendous pressure on the earth's crust?

That's right, volcanoes. See, now we're into volcanology, which teaches us that magma, which is produced by volcanoes, is earth's building material. The pressure produced by the rising sea will force volcanic eruptions of magma to the surface, which in effect will create new land. So, even as the oceans are rising, land is rising, too. This is how planets get bigger, subby (and -- see? -- we're into astrology now). Do you think the Earth was always this same size? No! Thousands upon thousands of years ago it was much smaller. There was also a lot less water. Now we have lots of water, and lots of land. A few thousand years from now, there will be even more of both. It's the natural way of things. It's science. SCIENCE. But not science studied in isolation, subby. Science as part of the greater whole.


So what happens when the water's weight increases? Well, now we're into geography, another part of the big picture. The heavier water pushes down on the ocean's floor. Now, in some places, that will actually make the ocean deeper -- sort of like when the bottom of a plastic dish bows outward. In other places, though, the heavier water won't be able to actually move the floor, but will put tremendous pressure on it. TREMENDOUS pressure. And what happens when you put tremendous pressure on the earth's crust?

For all your going-on about "the big picture," you failed to do so yourself.

That "extra weight" already exists,in Arctic & Antarctic ice.As it melts and mingles with seawater, it will actually distribute that weight over a larger area. You're not going to get enough localized pressure to trigger a volcanic reaction.
 
2012-11-28 11:07:15 AM

GhostfacedFiddlah: Let's just get this out of the way:


You should have posted a porn picture instead in this thread.
 
2012-11-28 11:09:14 AM

fluffy2097: spentmiles: mankind has managed to destroy a 4.5 billion year old planet.

Oh please. We haven't destroyed the earth. The earth, and life will go on just as it has for ages.
We just won't be on earth anymore. We have destroyed ourselves.


Mission not yet accomplished.
Be happy, we are working on it.

/Git er dun
 
2012-11-28 11:10:03 AM
clane:

just wait 10 more years we will be back to the global cooling scare

You might want to know that none of the sensationalist magazine covers you posted had anything to do with "global cooling." The upper left one was about a crunch in heating oil prices and the lower right one was about a drop in industrial production from a massive coal strike.

You wouldn't want to go around looking like you are just parroting some talking point and don't know what you're talking about.

TMYK
 
2012-11-28 11:11:53 AM

MaliFinn: Obviously, we need to detonate the Yellowstone caldera to trigger a supervolcano and rapidly cool the Earth for 100 years or so.


GTFO. You all can stay there on the coasts and drown, since you're all too good for "fly-over country" anyway. This is OUR turf.

fluffy2097: spentmiles: mankind has managed to destroy a 4.5 billion year old planet.
Oh please. We haven't destroyed the earth. The earth, and life will go on just as it has for ages.
We just won't be on earth anymore. We have destroyed ourselves.


Oh please. It's spentmiles.
 
2012-11-28 11:15:17 AM

spentmiles: In the 260 years since the Industrial Revolution, mankind has managed to destroy a 4.5 billion year old planet. Despite the negative press, you really have to marvel at our power. We are a truly unique and innovative species with more power sitting on our shoulders than all the suns in the universe. If there is life out there on other planets, I cannot imagine it even coming close to our immense strength. We shall rule the universe just as we've ruled the apes of our own planet. Bow at our feet or suffer our wrath!


Yep, you didn't just fail science classes AND reading classes, you never even attended them.
 
2012-11-28 11:15:24 AM

WelldeadLink: How can that be an unfetchable link, Fark? I fetched it. Fetch.
Link


Dear sir, you have an appropriate choice for a user name .
 
2012-11-28 11:16:04 AM
well they did just find all those new life forms in the ocean, so they will have more room now, which is good.
 
2012-11-28 11:17:20 AM

Cythraul: Yay! Raleigh, North Carolina will finally be a port city!


Still won't be shiat to do here, but at least the beach will be closer

/Grew up in a port city, it was boring there too
 
2012-11-28 11:19:30 AM

Kesherz: Pocket Ninja: So what happens when the water's weight increases? Well, now we're into geography, another part of the big picture. The heavier water pushes down on the ocean's floor. Now, in some places, that will actually make the ocean deeper -- sort of like when the bottom of a plastic dish bows outward. In other places, though, the heavier water won't be able to actually move the floor, but will put tremendous pressure on it. TREMENDOUS pressure. And what happens when you put tremendous pressure on the earth's crust?

For all your going-on about "the big picture," you failed to do so yourself.

That "extra weight" already exists,in Arctic & Antarctic ice.As it melts and mingles with seawater, it will actually distribute that weight over a larger area. You're not going to get enough localized pressure to trigger a volcanic reaction.


Well obviously, when that weight is removed the ground underneath "springs back", displacing the water and making it "appear" to rise. The volume of H2O is unchanged. Duh.

/Stupid Libs
 
2012-11-28 11:21:04 AM

fluffy2097: spentmiles: mankind has managed to destroy a 4.5 billion year old planet.

Oh please. We haven't destroyed the earth. The earth, and life will go on just as it has for ages.
We just won't be on earth anymore. We have destroyed ourselves.


Not even that. Global warming, even the very direst predictions of it, won't make our species extinct. The danger is to our way of life, our organizations and that people's lives in local areas could be in jeopardy. There is danger, just not the danger of extinction.
 
2012-11-28 11:23:18 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: GhostfacedFiddlah: Let's just get this out of the way:

You should have posted a porn picture instead in this thread.


You, sir, just made my favourite list.
 
2012-11-28 11:23:59 AM
We're gonna party like it's 2230!
 
2012-11-28 11:29:30 AM

mongbiohazard: There is danger, just not the danger of extinction.


This. Not even close to extinction.

But that doesn't mean it won't be bad. Especially in the poor parts of the world that won't be able to handle the increased costs of food, etc.
 
2012-11-28 11:30:52 AM
i26.photobucket.com
wanted for questioning
 
2012-11-28 11:32:50 AM
Kesherz:

Volume, remember that? The water's volume increases. OK, see that's something that an oceanographer doesn't consider, because it's about math. So tell me: what happens when a water's volume increases?

That's right, very good. The water becomes heavier. Because there's more of it. Need proof? Here's an experiment for you to conduct: pick up a 5-gal ...


You have been around too long to fall for a pocketninja post.
 
2012-11-28 11:34:04 AM

Cythraul: Pocket Ninja: The problem with these "OMG the sky is falling" climate-change horror predictions is that nobody looks at the big pictures. Oceanographers just look at oceans, Geographers just look at earth. Weatherographers just look at their latest Super Doppler7000 and circle their arms around weather patterns. And so on.

See, data is meaningless when it's taken as an isolated point. See, for example, here's a piece of data:

2230

I [heart] Pocket Ninja. I am now a firm believer in 2230.


This is how religions form.

/2230 believer
//all hail Pocket Ninja
 
2012-11-28 11:35:47 AM

Pocket Ninja: See, now we're into volcanology, which teaches us that magma, which is produced by volcanoes, is earth's building material. The pressure produced by the rising sea will force volcanic eruptions of magma to the surface, which in effect will create new land. So, even as the oceans are rising, land is rising, too. This is how planets get bigger


You magnificent bastard. I'll be willing to bet one of my clipped toenails that your entire hypothesis ends up repeated nearly word for word across climate hoaxer websites across the world for eternity.

Or at least until the data centers hosting them get flooded. 

9.9/10
 
2012-11-28 11:36:09 AM
wow, quote fail.not used to the mobile editor.
 
2012-11-28 11:39:34 AM

Pocket Ninja: The problem with these "OMG the sky is falling" climate-change horror predictions is that nobody looks at the big pictures. Oceanographers just look at oceans, Geographers just look at earth. Weatherographers just look at their latest Super Doppler7000 and circle their arms around weather patterns. And so on...

*SNIP*


This...this is another example of why you're highlighted in green and one of my favorites.

PocketNinja is an alien brought from another planet to amuse the ever-loving shiat out of us while they take over.
 
2012-11-28 11:41:08 AM

IlGreven: bim1154: The earth just reinvents itself on a regular basis. Nothing to see here are get excited about.

The last time the earth "reinvented" itself on a scale like this, the dinosaurs died out (or became chickens).


Dinosaurs were dumbshiats, plus how can get anything done with those short arms?
 
2012-11-28 11:47:35 AM
Why do so many people still believe these computer models when every few months an announcement is made that they were wrong and that the world is actually heating up at a more rapid pace than originally predicted by the computer models? I have a strong hunch that these inaccuracies strongly correlate with the expiration of grant funding.

i1103.photobucket.com

Mercury!, Getcha red-hot Mercury today! Right here! Great for the kids! Doubles as a pesticide! Ya can't get enough Mercury! Buy today! Crappy light, but expensive! It's win-win! For us, anyway! Mercury! All you suckers fine people just line up right over there for ya Mercury!
 
2012-11-28 11:48:29 AM
I'm just happy to have been here for the birth of the 2230 movement.
 
2012-11-28 11:49:43 AM
Are these the same researchers who said we would have no snow by this point?

Are these the same researches who said there would be hundreds of thousands of climate change refuges by this point?

Are these the same researches who said there would be more frequent hurricanes? On that note, are these the same researches who run forward after every single solitary weather related disaster to proclaim that this is "climate change" even if its contradictory to what they said the last time?

I'm still laughing over the fact that lack of snowfall in a particular area of Canada was "climate change" but then massive snow fall just a few months later in a portion of the United States was "just weather, not climate".
 
2012-11-28 11:49:52 AM

Farking Canuck: mongbiohazard: There is danger, just not the danger of extinction.

This. Not even close to extinction.

But that doesn't mean it won't be bad. Especially in the poor parts of the world that won't be able to handle the increased costs of food, etc.


Don't expect the "rich" parts to be immune. More hungry poor people likely means more instability and insecurity for the not-hungry rich folks.
 
2012-11-28 11:50:13 AM

CornerPocket: Why do so many people still believe these computer models when every few months an announcement is made that they were wrong and that the world is actually heating up at a more rapid pace than originally predicted by the computer models? I have a strong hunch that these inaccuracies strongly correlate with the expiration of grant funding.

[i1103.photobucket.com image 280x280]

Mercury!, Getcha red-hot Mercury today! Right here! Great for the kids! Doubles as a pesticide! Ya can't get enough Mercury! Buy today! Crappy light, but expensive! It's win-win! For us, anyway! Mercury! All you suckers fine people just line up right over there for ya Mercury!


You know who tells us that mercury is bad for us? Scientists!! You know ... the same ones that say AGW is real.

Why do you feel mercury is bad if scientists are all lying scumbags scamming for their next grant?!?
 
2012-11-28 11:59:41 AM

randomjsa: Are these the same researchers who said we would have no snow by this point?


Nope. Worst case scenarios are not actually proposed as likely. If scientists do not list what is possible and the unlikely extreme actually happens, Luddites like yourself get all pitchforky. See recent events in Italy.

Predictions are made with ranges usually with Gaussian distributions. This means that the center of the range of the prediction and the extreme that you keep harping on and on about is actually highly unlikely.
 
2012-11-28 12:01:22 PM
But only twice a day.
 
2012-11-28 12:05:23 PM
Spentmiles you never cease to amaze me in your abilities to snare dumb asses. I applaud you sir.
 
2012-11-28 12:13:32 PM

LovingTeacher: Pocket Ninja: The problem with these "OMG the sky is falling" climate-change horror predictions is that nobody looks at the big pictures. Oceanographers just look at oceans, Geographers just look at earth. Weatherographers just look at their latest Super Doppler7000 and circle their arms around weather patterns. And so on.

See, data is meaningless when it's taken as an isolated point. See, for example, here's a piece of data:

2230

Impressive,

This is the most impressive I've seen from you so far, kudos to you sir. Keep up the effort. You have made my morning, maybe I will even share this with my physics class and show them the wisdom of the internet.


2230 is just plagarizing the '42' concept from HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy.

/lazy
 
2012-11-28 12:19:50 PM
s1.djyimg.com

F*ck!
 
2012-11-28 12:21:21 PM
Then stop farking around and build nuke power plants. Jeez.
 
2012-11-28 12:25:13 PM
t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-11-28 12:27:53 PM
www.proscoinc.com
 
2012-11-28 12:34:03 PM

Farking Canuck: randomjsa: Are these the same researchers who said we would have no snow by this point?

Nope. Worst case scenarios are not actually proposed as likely. If scientists do not list what is possible and the unlikely extreme actually happens, Luddites like yourself get all pitchforky. See recent events in Italy.

Predictions are made with ranges usually with Gaussian distributions. This means that the center of the range of the prediction and the extreme that you keep harping on and on about is actually highly unlikely.


So then we're not going to have extreme climate changes? Cool - we can all relax then!
 
2012-11-28 12:35:50 PM

imtheonlylp: Awesome! The world WON'T be taken over by Zombies, because everyone knows they can't swim!


Don't some movies depict them simply walking along the bottoms of lakes etc. till they finally walk right out on the other side though?

It's not like they need to breathe.

So this probably won't prevent the world from being taken over by Zombies.

Just sayin'. . .

/pro-tip: it's already happened
//no one even noticed
 
2012-11-28 12:37:52 PM
Bull(cough)
 
2012-11-28 12:39:26 PM
the planet doesn't give a shiat.. it's the honey badger

we however do sorta kinda care about conditions on the planet we have to live on.
 
2012-11-28 12:40:09 PM
"What's so unpleasant about being drunk?"
"Ask a glass of water!"


Since were looking all smart with quoting Hitchhikers.
 
2012-11-28 01:01:25 PM
so where is all those H2O stealing aliens when you need them...
 
2012-11-28 01:04:14 PM

Onkel Buck: Cythraul: Yay! Raleigh, North Carolina will finally be a port city!

Still won't be shiat to do here, but at least the beach will be closer

/Grew up in a port city, it was boring there too


Maybe you should log off Fark and go outside more often. I found plenty to do when I lived in Raleigh. Tons of stuff to do in Wilmington too, but I guess it's a matter of perspective.
 
2012-11-28 01:04:43 PM

HindiDiscoMonster: starsrift: Oh, fark, two GW threads posted to Main already, and it's not even noon.

It's going to be one of those days.


I'm gonna need more liquor.

Pick me up some rum while you are there... something nice... mixable, sip-able, but not to expensive... maybe:

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]


With the topic at hand, maybe Kraken would be more appropriate.
 
2012-11-28 01:04:57 PM
Fark will miss Florida when it's gone.
 
2012-11-28 01:05:27 PM

Farking Canuck: CornerPocket: Why do so many people still believe these computer models when every few months an announcement is made that they were wrong and that the world is actually heating up at a more rapid pace than originally predicted by the computer models? I have a strong hunch that these inaccuracies strongly correlate with the expiration of grant funding.

[i1103.photobucket.com image 280x280]

Mercury!, Getcha red-hot Mercury today! Right here! Great for the kids! Doubles as a pesticide! Ya can't get enough Mercury! Buy today! Crappy light, but expensive! It's win-win! For us, anyway! Mercury! All you suckers fine people just line up right over there for ya Mercury!

You know who tells us that mercury is bad for us? Scientists!! You know ... the same ones that say AGW is real.

Why do you feel mercury is bad if scientists are all lying scumbags scamming for their next grant?!?



Didn't say all of 'em were. Some are. Just like policemen, office workers, landscape architects, and every other segment of society. I knew a medicinal chemistry professor from India who was the smartest and most honest human being I ever met. Nevertheless, anybody who tells you that the research on climate change is refined enough to inform public policy today is just wrong or a very wishful thinker. Hence all the revisions. I don't deny the research is potentially useful, but it's in its infancy and has no real predictive power yet. Again, I believe this due to all the revisions that have consistently appeared. Yet the scam artists are trying to use this quite incomplete and impractical data to drive policy, frighten people for their own gain (because that's what such people always do), and make a few bucks in the process. Also, the toxicity of mercury is easily demonstrable and repeatable in any decently appointed pharmacology lab. Not so with climate change. That doesn't invalidate climate science, it just makes it much fuzzier (and less well developed) than toxicology. That Washington would allow such a product to hit the market makes me very uncomfortable. Ultimately, though, I think this will turn out like the common cold. Nobody's trying to find a cure for it anymore, like they used to. At least according to what I read. There is no way to predict effectively the level and direction of the antigenic shifts and drifts of the garden-variety rhinovirus over time. Climate change ultimately will turn out the same, IMHO. No collection of people, no matter how smart, are going to be able to predict the behavior of any system as complex as the Earth's climate. As Yogi Berra said: "Predictions are tricky, especially when they involve the future."

E=mc2. = science. Nuclear reactors in good repair behave exactly as predicted by relativity theory, at least to the limits of the uncertainty principle.

"I can tell you how hot the world will be in 100 years. Cause that's what my computer program says." = not so much.


Well played, though. I had to work on that response for much longer than ususal. 

BTW, I love Canada. Especially PEI. My wife and I used to travel there every summer. Now, with the kids, it's a lot harder. Nicest people I ever met were the locals on that Island.

MD apointment in a little while, must go. Thanks everybody
 
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