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(Daily Mail)   Glacier Park is quickly becoming a water park   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 19
    More: Sad, Glacier Park, nature reserve, U.S. Geological Survey, global warming, climate change  
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11746 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Nov 2012 at 2:21 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-11-28 05:04:16 AM
4 votes:
Scary, isn't it?

I'd love to say something mind boggling and profound that would kick people into high gear about this, but no one's listening anymore.

I've seen far too often what Big Business can do while appearing to be your best friend with your interests in mind. Over the decades I watched thousands of acres of wild woods locally fall to become developments, saw water shortages suddenly appear, noticed air pollution increase, the huge schools of fish in the lagoon vanish and local wild life numbers reduced by more than 75%.

Through it all, I was assured that things were just fine, it was all good, how the additional income would provide my city with better medical care, lower taxes, greater resources, thousands of jobs and everyone was being ecologically responsible.

When winter all but vanished here in Florida, folks decided it was a good thing. When the majority of the night skies lost their stars to light pollution, I was assured that it was best, since it indicated a healthy, thriving economy, a deterrent against criminal activity, a richer shopping experience and access to a vast number of new medical resources.

When my land flooded for the first time in 50 years during a hurricane, I noticed it was due to my area being massively developed, new zoning laws requiring houses to be built on filled in lots, making my old home the lowest spot on the block. The now paved road replaced the old dirt one, which was level with my land. Now, it's 6 inches higher and the old swale ditches used for drainage have been closed off.

I've been told that's progress. The additional 16 homes on my block indicate a thriving economy. An active home building process is a great economic indicator.

I thought about that as 'gray days' became more frequent in the summer months. (Days of gray haze, high heat and high humidity.) I thought about that when the drainage ditches across the street, once containing a stream-like ripple of clean water became half full of dark, dank fluid, often supporting a scummy growth on the surface.

Then, the huge swarms of lightening bugs that used to appear during summer twilight vanished along with the massive swarms of the rainbow hued, comical and amazing Dragonflies, ranging from small to huge went away.

Along with the majority of the song birds.

Rats, however, remained and thrived.

Rich farmland, worked for generations abruptly became condominiums. Ground water levels fell so dramatically from so many wells being sunk in a small area that eventually we had to sink them deeper and deeper, and finally have to hook up to the city water system.

We have droughts we never had before. Hurricanes hit us with greater fury than previously. The once pristine and clean lagoon is off limits to shell fishing several times a year due to human fecal bacteria pollution, but commercial crabbers and harvesters have depleted the supply drastically anyhow.

I yelled about this for decades. The developers moved in anyhow.

Now my area is polluted, crowded, faces shortages of resources, crime and illnesses are rising and I so miss the crisp, cold winters we used to have.

Basically, I've been called an old fool. Told the industries are good for the city and the county. Heck, cramming in millions more folks every year is good for the State.

I watched a major highway into my city go from two lane to 4 -- then to 6 and now it's being redeveloped for 8.

Costs have risen hugely. The prolific medical care the taxes from so much development has given us is now out of reach financially for a whole lot of folks. Property taxes have soared. More money is needed to keep up the roads and bridges which now have to tolerate 4 times the traffic they were designed for. Money is needed to clean up the increasing mess from the booming population.

As more folks pour in and more development is done, the state climate degrades. Hundreds of thousands of new roofs reflect the suns heat back into the atmosphere, thousands of acres of water replenishing wild woods get paved over and thousands of air conditioners pump billions of BTU's of waste heat in to the wind.

Changes in the local climate has changed off shore currents, which have taken away our vast, beautiful beaches, meaning we spend millions each year trucking in sand to 'renourish' them. The vast schools of ocean fish close to shore are vanishing and being replaced by an increasing amount of sharks.

People don't listen. Big Business is interested only in profits. The majority of the owners of the development companies which flooded the state with over priced homes during the housing boom do not even live here. Many do not even live in the US.

By the time Big Business starts taking hits in the pockets over Global Warming and do something about it, the rest of us will be living in hell.

The politicians, if you haven't noticed, mainly listen only to big bucks -- not the average Joe who elected them in the first place.

So, I get to have a front seat as the environment around me collapses and have to listen to the decades long squabble over whether or not Global Warming is real.

If not real, then where did my winter go? What happened to the huge, seemingly endless schools of fish in the lagoon? Why are there more hurricanes than before?

I also want my starry night skies back along with the lightening bugs.
2012-11-28 08:15:26 AM
2 votes:

hlehmann: oukewldave: Looks like the old pictures are from winter and new ones are from spring or summer.

Glaciers don't disappear in the summer only to come back again in the winter. That's why their glaciers and not just snow banks. They form over thousands of years when more snow falls during the winter than melts in the summer. These days it's the other way around.


Good answer. Is it any wonder that the uneducated cannot wrap a thought around something as complex as global warming? It's easier to deny the existence of what one doesn't understand than to learn about it. Nicolaus Copernicus was considered an insane moron by many, in his day. Things haven't changed that much in the intervening 470 years.
2012-11-28 02:54:39 AM
2 votes:
Glacier National Park is named as such because it was sculpted by glacial forces, NOT because of the glaciers actually in the park according to park rangers last summer.

I'm not disputing climate change or loss of the glaciaers, but whoever wrote that shlock should get their facts straight.

/Miss it
//so much...
2012-11-28 02:42:57 AM
2 votes:
That's beautiful camera work, nice job to have duplicated the POV and angles so accurately.
2012-11-28 03:34:30 PM
1 votes:

0z79: Bontesla: SwiftFox: One thing certain, any prediction of climate change will be way the fark off, as will the effects.

Might mean famine or plenty. California becoming dependent on an annual monsoon and nearby warming depleting ocean life near there, or continued upwelling of cold nutrients into now warmer differential and a flood of life. Literal flooding, or drastic drops in sea level caused by drastic increases in Antarctic and Greenland snow accumulation, the former largely in desert conditions now. The Sahara might become a prairie again.

Get ready to adapt. People are supposed to be able to do that.

Except that's not true. Humans adapt rather poorly and we're very close to our limit (look up deaths during heat waves and cold spells ). Scientists say we're very near our "boiling point" and so are many things we eat for food.

I hate to sound heartless, but most of those people who died in dought were too dumb to live; otherwise, they were elderly or otherwise infirm.

Stuff like buying a pop instead of water or gatorade, not stopping to rest when overheating, not slowing down to account for the heat, etc.

I think we'll adapt just fine, after a little turbulence. I think the greater danger would be your fellow panic-stricken, overreacting, "seriously-it's-gonna-be-okay-if-you-just-chill-the-FARK-out!!" human being.


The problem with your assumption is that adaption requires large consensus. Biologically, we're poorly suited for adaptation. Many times we can compensate for being a vulnerable species by reasoning out solutions.

In this case, the reasonable approach is to realize we're heading toward a point of no return. The only disagreement on this subject is whether or not we've passed it. However, we're honestly having a discussion as to whether or not bottled water is going to be what saves species from mass extinction events. This discussion is why we're not as clever as we think we are.

Ffs. 100% of scientists agree that this ends badly for the things we require to sustain life (a statistical 100%). But because there are variations in the models - you remain skeptical and suggest others to do the same. Specifically how many of those models show no major changes after the temperature increases by two degrees celcius? A statistical 0. So, yes, there are varied models but every single damned model that is credible shows some major changes that will make it tremendously difficult to sustain many current population of species.

There is nothing reasonable about choosing inaction especially given all of the benefits that would result in preemptive strategy. We could see significant advances in green energy, an overall healthier society, and one less consumed with consumption. God forbid we consider improving life because every single model isn't predicting identical disasters.
2012-11-28 11:32:01 AM
1 votes:

snocone: starsrift: snocone: You would be quite wrong, but then, we knew that.

It's called soil, oh purveyor of the royal "we". Not only does there have to BE soil, but soil with certain properties and biologies extant. Receding glaciers do not farmland make, until much more time has passed.

Geography is not a "consensual" science, so I see your problem.
Nobody tole' ya what to believe about that yet?



I'm not sure how truly effective an insult it is to insinuate that your opponent is basing their opinion on more information.
2012-11-28 10:27:28 AM
1 votes:

snocone: You would be quite wrong, but then, we knew that.


It's called soil, oh purveyor of the royal "we". Not only does there have to BE soil, but soil with certain properties and biologies extant. Receding glaciers do not farmland make, until much more time has passed.
2012-11-28 10:20:27 AM
1 votes:

chuckufarlie: JackieRabbit: hlehmann: oukewldave: Looks like the old pictures are from winter and new ones are from spring or summer.

Glaciers don't disappear in the summer only to come back again in the winter. That's why their glaciers and not just snow banks. They form over thousands of years when more snow falls during the winter than melts in the summer. These days it's the other way around.

Good answer. Is it any wonder that the uneducated cannot wrap a thought around something as complex as global warming? It's easier to deny the existence of what one doesn't understand than to learn about it. Nicolaus Copernicus was considered an insane moron by many, in his day. Things haven't changed that much in the intervening 470 years.

Let's see. You have a theory supported by faulty data that is run through a bad model and you think that you have something solid? You really should not make snarky remarks about the uneducated. They will come back to haunt you.


Snarky? Theory? Oh please, give it a break. I see you are one of the ones who choose to remain ignorant and get your misinformation about this phenomenon from Fox or the oil companies propaganda machine. Global warming is not a theory. It is quite real and deniers only display their ignorance (or agenda) with their absurd and completely false claims. What is conjecture at this time (though this conjecture is quickly disappearing) is how much of the phenomenon is attributable to anthropogenic factors and how much to natural climatological factors. If you don't understand this basic premise, you are indeed uneducated on this subject and should not be discussing it, much less criticizing others.
2012-11-28 10:01:46 AM
1 votes:

bluefoxicy: Awe-inspiring: Frozen wasteland
i.dailymail.co.uk

Shrunken: Blossoming life, green growth.


There's no green in the first picture because color photography didn't exist yet, dumbass.
2012-11-28 09:42:08 AM
1 votes:
I'd much rather be coming OUT of an ice age than going INTO one.

10,000 years ago where I live was under a glacier.
2012-11-28 09:16:35 AM
1 votes:
One thing certain, any prediction of climate change will be way the fark off, as will the effects.

Might mean famine or plenty. California becoming dependent on an annual monsoon and nearby warming depleting ocean life near there, or continued upwelling of cold nutrients into now warmer differential and a flood of life. Literal flooding, or drastic drops in sea level caused by drastic increases in Antarctic and Greenland snow accumulation, the former largely in desert conditions now. The Sahara might become a prairie again.

Get ready to adapt. People are supposed to be able to do that.
2012-11-28 08:22:01 AM
1 votes:

Deacon Blue: Global warming is going to be great. Around 40% of the world's population lives in low-lying costal regions. When the sea level rises and floods them out, where are they going to go? Why, they'll be crowding the rest of us. Initial conflicts will quickly morph into a global war between real people and the displaced. Civilization will crumble. It'll be like Mad Max. God I can't wait. Gotta stock up on weapons, though. AR's, AK's, sniper rifles (including both a .50 and a 20mm), pistols of every variety, compound bows and crossbows for when ammunition starts running low, and by God some close in weapons such as Katanas, tomahawks, Kukri knives...

/excuse me, I have to go masturbate


www.freeimagehosting.net

"This world, what it is now, this is where you belong. And I may not have what it takes to last for long, but that's okay. 'Cause at least I can say when the world goes to shiat, I didn't let it take me down with it."
2012-11-28 06:29:44 AM
1 votes:

dready zim: Allegorical local nimby stuff


He old, leave him alone. If he wants to yell at clouds, let him.

Or how about this for the discussion. Global warming is about long term trends. Like the average temperature for an entire year. I live in Wisconsin. Our average temperature for this year to date is a new record. And we didn't just break the old record, we shattered it by nearly ten degrees.

The argument isn't if global warming is happening any more, but what do we do about it. And that's why nothing is happening. Developing nations aren't willing to slow down development, and developed nations aren't willing to give up any of their modern conveniences. Oh sure, a lot of people give the environment lip service, but when it comes down to making any real changes, nothing happens. And it won't either. The reduction in carbon emissions required to slow global warming are so large that radical changes would have to be made to our lifestyles. And not just in developed nations, but world wide; a level of cooperation never seen before. I'm sorry, I just don't see it happening. People are too self centered, and far too short sighted.

Please tell me I'm wrong. Please tell me of your vision of a glorious future. I really would like to have hope.
2012-11-28 06:19:14 AM
1 votes:
The hardest thing to grasp in photos like these is the sense of scale. It's easy to see the landscape and it just kinda looks like a few feet of snow has melted... but those white patches are tens of feet thick of solid ice. Used to be hundreds of feet thick in some spots. You don't get that kind of melting in a "seasonal variation."

=Smidge=
2012-11-28 05:24:13 AM
1 votes:

Rik01: When my land flooded for the first time in 50 years during a hurricane, I noticed it was due to my area being massively developed, new zoning laws requiring houses to be built on filled in lots, making my old home the lowest spot on the block. The now paved road replaced the old dirt one, which was level with my land. Now, it's 6 inches higher and the old swale ditches used for drainage have been closed off.


Rik01: Then, the huge swarms of lightening bugs that used to appear during summer twilight vanished along with the massive swarms of the rainbow hued, comical and amazing Dragonflies, ranging from small to huge went away.

Along with the majority of the song birds.

Rats, however, remained and thrived.

Rich farmland, worked for generations abruptly became condominiums. Ground water levels fell so dramatically from so many wells being sunk in a small area that eventually we had to sink them deeper and deeper, and finally have to hook up to the city water system.


Rik01: The once pristine and clean lagoon is off limits to shell fishing several times a year due to human fecal bacteria pollution, but commercial crabbers and harvesters have depleted the supply drastically anyhow.


Rik01: I watched a major highway into my city go from two lane to 4 -- then to 6 and now it's being redeveloped for 8.

Costs have risen hugely. The prolific medical care the taxes from so much development has given us is now out of reach financially for a whole lot of folks. Property taxes have soared. More money is needed to keep up the roads and bridges which now have to tolerate 4 times the traffic they were designed for. Money is needed to clean up the increasing mess from the booming population.

As more folks pour in and more development is done, the state climate degrades. Hundreds of thousands of new roofs reflect the suns heat back into the atmosphere, thousands of acres of water replenishing wild woods get paved over and thousands of air conditioners pump billions of BTU's of waste heat in to the wind.


Rik01: If not real, then where did my winter go? What happened to the huge, seemingly endless schools of fish in the lagoon? Why are there more hurricanes than before?

I also want my starry night skies back along with the lightening bugs.



Sounds like the input of water got paved over, you sucked the water out using wells faster than it is replaced, the fish were fished and you flooded because they shut the drains. All of which reduces coping with hurricanes so to the person on the ground they seem worse. Also, wildlife doesn`t like to live near people (except rats which love it)

Also, there are not more hurricanes than before. Citation required.jpg

Your environment is collapsing from over development. Good emotion filled heart string tugging prose but very little to support your claim. Allegorical local nimby stuff.
2012-11-28 03:19:05 AM
1 votes:
The planet gets warm... then it gets cold... then it gets warm... then it gets cold... then it gets warm... then it gets cold... then it gets warm... then it gets cold... then it gets warm...

That's what it does.
2012-11-28 03:02:30 AM
1 votes:
zippythepinhead.com
2012-11-28 02:27:42 AM
1 votes:
In before the global warming charts and graphs no one gives a shiat about from 100 sources no ones ever heard of
2012-11-28 02:21:56 AM
1 votes:
meh
 
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