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(Slate)   Herbal supplements like ephedra, birthwort, glucosamine, marijuana, and echinacea are unregulated, overhyped, and potentially deadly. And they don't really work either   (slate.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, herbalism, Education Act, Baylor College of Medicine, fish oils, alternative medicines, Stony Brook University, natural products, marijuana  
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8099 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Nov 2012 at 1:19 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-11-27 10:43:12 PM  
9 votes:
In other words, the pharmaceutical companies aren't making any money off them, so buy their drugs instead?
2012-11-28 03:35:20 AM  
3 votes:
I take milk thistle extract (silymarin) to make up for years of drinking in an earlier life. It has quite a number of big name studies to its credit showing a protective effect for the liver - for alcohol damage, diabetes, chemotherapy damage, mushroom poisoning, and other toxins that damage the liver. It is also suspected to have strong general antioxidant activity, and shown to have mild anti-inflammatory activity. In any case, it's cheap, been used for thousands of years, unlike fad herbals, and the mayo clinic notes no significant toxicity in therapeutic doses taken for many years.

So blow me. 

/if you drink, I recommend it
2012-11-28 01:45:45 AM  
3 votes:
It's a couple years old, but here's a cool infographic on the various supplements and the amount of evidence that supports their claims.

Link
2012-11-28 01:42:08 AM  
3 votes:
Glucosamine: not herbal. Comes from shell fish.
2012-11-27 10:56:40 PM  
3 votes:

SundaesChild: In other words, the pharmaceutical companies aren't making any money off them, so buy their drugs instead?


Bingo

/ask your doctor wholly owned prescription dispenser
2012-11-28 11:01:35 AM  
2 votes:

quietwalker: For anyone interested in a comic approach on alternative remedies, I recommend Dara O'Brien's "Dara O'Brien Talks Funny" show. Paraphrased, "All the stuff that worked, they purified, concentrated, and called it medicine, and everything that's left is a nice cup of tea and some potpourri."

Or in other words, "If alternative medicine worked, they'd just call it 'medicine'."



Pharmaceutical drugs, properly prescribed and taken as directed kill and maim MANY times more people every year than all supplements AND illegal drugs (heroin, coke meth, etc) combined.


/Safe and effective
2012-11-28 04:00:29 AM  
2 votes:

Vaneshi: Tobin_Lam: bacterial flu.

myheadisfulloffark.jpg

You either had flu (a virus) or a chest infection (bacterial). If you're coughing up green gunge it's most commonly a bacterial infection, if your joints hurt and shiat it's probably flu.

/Not a doctor.
//Does not constitute medical advice.


buttonpushingmonkey.files.wordpress.com

Hey, how's it hang, ese?

Says here you've got, like, a flu thing, but this is all, you know, BACTERIAL and shiat, so we need to PUMP you with some super-rad anti-bacteria to negate the flu bacteria and, you know, un-bacterialize your flu.
2012-11-28 03:52:39 AM  
2 votes:
i.usatoday.net

Smilin' Bob and Enzyte's "Natural Male Enhancement".... wow, they did that scam on a massive scale. And strangely enough, they went for the "creepy" Smilin' Bob. Why did "creepy" work here at all?? Think about that!!

Enzyte used pharmaceutical packaging and a fake pharmaceutical name- "Suffragium asotas". Suffragium is Latin for "to vote", "asotas" is not a word, but guessing it to be a made-up form of a word of close spelling, it might translate as "refuge for the dissipated".

It's a collection of 11 supplements, none of which are new or unique. Ginkgo biloba, niacin, etc. Some have some basis in science, some are disproven. Of course none have ever suggested to enlarge a guy's dick by any form of science. They're purported to improve erection quality and/or sex drive.

www.dietresearch.com

Lipozene one was epic, too. Packaged like a pharmaceutical, commercial is "intense"... "Be advised, Lipozene is ONLY for people who have to lose a SIGNIFICANT amount of weight". WTF did that mean, actually? Are you saying it's too dangerous for minor weight loss?? One commercial said "It's far too powerful- and far too expensive- for casual weight loss."

Had to look this one up. Lipozene is caffeine, B6 & B12 vitamins, and konjac fiber (glucomannan). Also they did one called "Proplene" which was just konjac fiber. Which they've hugely inflated in price, and really just want your credit card number to scam with recurring bills you can't cancel.
2012-11-28 02:16:21 AM  
2 votes:
Well, no.

Either they don't work--and hence are not dangerous, because they do nothing; or they DO work, and thus are dangerous because their effects have not been thoroughly tested and studied under controlled conditions.

You can't have it both ways.

Myself, I'm guessing that in fact most of these herbal supplements do work, and in fact the chemicals in them work quite well; however, because they have not been tested adequately subject to rigorous scientific testing, the full range of effects (both desired and so-called "side" effects) are not completely known, nor are the drug interactions.

As to why they have not been tested, again, my own suspicion is that nobody's hands are clean. The drug companies really have no reason NOT to test them, since they'd love to have another market to make $$$$!!! from; however, the herbal remedy market has a lot to lose by having their herbs subjected to rigorous testing, and a lot more to lose by having their squeaky-clean image tarnished by having a Merck label slapped on the side; plus, they make all their buckage by proclaiming that their cures are made because their "herbs" and "minerals" are not merely a bunch of chemical compounds but are "natural" and "organic" and would lose a lot of devotees if scientists and doctors came in and proved that the active ingredient in that wholesome St. John's Wort is really chemically identical to sertraline or whatever it is that the holistic herbalist is telling you it isn't.

OTOH, a lot of mainstream doctors get a lot of mileage out of pretending that they're above the naturopathic holistic cures and what you REALLY need is a pill and not a pile of leaves; and why should they waste their time testing a bunch of plants when we all know that drinking a cup of Grandma's chicken soup does nothing more for the flu than a zinc lozenge (nothing) except make you feel warm. Or getting a shot of penicillin either, which does nothing against a virus. Anyhoo, the point of all this is that NOBODY wants to do the hard thing, double-blind test these various herbal remedies, find out what's in them that either works or doesn't, regulate the ones that work and ignore the ones that don't; and everyone is making money off not doing it. One way or another.
2012-11-28 01:47:58 AM  
2 votes:

TheJoe03: fusillade762: Belladonna is still cool, though, right?

The pornstar?


Entertaining, yes. Safe, no.
2012-11-28 01:22:17 AM  
2 votes:
I died from marijuana years ago.

I'm still dead today.
2012-11-27 09:44:11 PM  
2 votes:
At least one of those herbs works for me, submitter.

/you naughty boy
2012-11-29 05:41:41 AM  
1 vote:
BronyMedic, I commend you for your patience, frankly I would have given up long before you did. You made a clear, concise, and very correct argument that fell on what seems to be completely deaf ears. ANYTHING potent enough to have an effect on the human body is a risk/reward calculation. It helps in some ways and hurts in other, only when you have ALL the information can you make a proper decision. This goes for medical marijuana, or traditional pharmaceuticals. And intentionally misleading to get your way is unethical, the ends do NOT justify the means.

Do not just take supplements, you are only wasting your money. If you have a SPECIFIC deficiency in something, which you will probably only know by getting a blood test, then yes take something as your doctor will tell you to. SPECIFIC supplements to address SPECIFIC and documented problems is the only legitimate use of supplements. For example, Vitamin D deficiency is rather common here in Norway in the winter, but even then you should get tested so you can properly dose yourself.

Multi-vitamins are a waste of money, they do nothing for your health. If you aren't eating a healthy diet then taking one will not improve your health, and if you are eating a healthy diet then you have no reason to take one.

Most herbal supplements are utterly useless, in that they have no documented effect at all. Even with the few herbs that have a documented effect, due to the completely unregulated industry you have NO IDEA what you are buying. Does the herb contain enough of the actual herb to even have that documented effect? What is a proper dose when the concentration of active ingredients is unknown and varies wildly? How much are you supposed to take? Why?

I've never met someone that supports Alt-Med that understands just how rigorous and precise REAL medicine needs to be to be consistently effective. Now, even with all these controls in place traditional medicine often fails to maintain rigor, how reliable do you think a completely unregulated and untested industry is?

/Girlfriend runs a pharmacy
//Epidemiology nerd
2012-11-29 01:54:17 AM  
1 vote:

BronyMedic: That's nice. It's still a federal crime to possess and sell any quantity. The feds can still come down on you, despite what your state says about the de-facto legality of it. And FSM-help you if they catch you transporting it interstate.


Yeah I know, it's disgusting, but the Feds have their own reasons that have nothing to do with what we're talking about. It's called the drug war, and it's very corrupt.

BronyMedic: And you don't care about the fact that someone with a dime bag gets treated the same as someone who raped a 12 year old girl in the eyes of the police? Or that your tax dollars are wasted on these people?


I do, I do a lot, and I find it strange you blames stoners in California (and other states like it) for ignorant laws in your backyard. It's a regional issue, like gay marriage, blame your own state and people for it's bad laws.

BronyMedic: Uh no. It narrowly failed because of a smear campaign by one of the state's largest anti-drug groups. A campaign which took advantage of your exact mentality.


Sucks how gullible Arkansas is, other states didn't seem to have that problem, weird isn't it?

BronyMedic: 18 states have, actually. Not 25. You do know that is half of 50, right? Arkansas would have been the first southern state to legalize for medicinal use, and it would have spurred Tennessee and Mississippi to do the same.


Did you miss the word decriminalized?

BronyMedic: Remember what I said about ridicule versus reality?


Not really, it wasn't relevant.

TheJoe03: Plus I don't have the balls to stand what I stand for? What? I just said weed should be legal and no one here in California is acting like that's not the goal. You really don't know the deal because you live in a shiatty state that has bad laws. Funny you blame people like me instead of the fascist morons in your own state.

Translation:I gots' mine, fark anyone else.


Yup, sucks to live in a redneck shiat state. 

But yeah, it's totally not obvious you have some kind of anti-weed agenda. Weird thing to be mad about. THOSE STONERS! ARG!
2012-11-29 01:39:09 AM  
1 vote:

BronyMedic: Congratulations. You've just proven my point. You're just another one of those "I gots mine, fark the rest of ya'll" people who don't really care about "People Suffering" like they claim. Please, don't ever pretend to lecture anyone on "caring about the suffering of others" when you post self-serving tripe like this.


I don't, I just want weed to be legal. Weed is available no matter what. It's more about southerners not caring about people suffering because of those damn hippies. You're blaming the wrong people. I thought you wanted us to be honest bro, why you mad that I'm stating the point of this whole thing, to legalize marijuana and stop this bogus war on drugs. It's working, we have more and more states decriminalizing weed and more states with medical marijuana. You talk about Arkansas (really dude?) but don't bring up the fact that almost half the states now have either medical marijuana or decriminalized weed. Oh boy, us stoners are really holding the movement back! LOL.

Plus I don't have the balls to stand what I stand for? What? I just said weed should be legal and no one here in California is acting like that's not the goal. You really don't know the deal because you live in a shiatty state that has bad laws. Funny you blame people like me instead of the fascist morons in your own state.
2012-11-29 01:26:12 AM  
1 vote:

BronyMedic: I gave you a specific example, the Arkansas Medicinal Legalization Measure on the 2012 ballot


What the hell do I care happens in a place like Arkansas? I guess Arkansas is against gay marriage because of all those crazy queers! No it's because they're social conservatives, they don't like change and they think weed is bad. Sucks to be them, it's why I'm glad I'm out of the south. Instead of blaming stoners for the situation, blame your region. Plus, conservatives in the West don't give a shiat about weed anyway, the south is just crazy about social issues.
2012-11-29 12:21:40 AM  
1 vote:

TheJoe03: should we just flat out deny alternative medicine?


pretty much.
2012-11-28 02:53:56 PM  
1 vote:

alienated: ThrobblefootSpectre: it's cheap, been used for thousands of years

And thats it in a nutshell- how is there profit in that ? You can grow that plant, yourself, and use it.
I am not saying all of big Pharma is evil, I am sure that there are quite a few involved that really do mean well,
but big Pharma is evil, overall. Marijuana is not some cancer busting drug, regardless of who says that it is. It is however, the best pain reliever out there for arthritis and chronic pain, and as an oil it has proven to help many folks muscular pain, when properly massaged into the skin.
At least, in my experience of about 25 years, give or take 2. You Mileage May Vary
And many plants also help, for other things. Big Pharma came to be from making aspirin, from the bark of a tree. They just made it synthetic. Science is a wonderful thing- it allows us to expand our future and remember how we got here in the fist place.
Those are my thoughts anyhow.


Here's the thing about pot and cancer, chemo wrecks the body and makes most people extremely nauseous. However, anti-nausea drugs kill appetite, causing cancer patients to eat even less, which weakens cancer patients even more, making them even more susceptible to chemo and infections.

Pot is one of the few anti-nauseatives that actually increases appetite (munchies). It also is a pain reviler and has some anti-inflammatory properties, making it even better for cancer patients.

For chronic pain suffers considering that many doctors just prescribe powerful pain-killers like Oxycotin, which is far more addicting than pot. I work at a mental health and addictions hospital and the paitients in our methadone clinics are typically NOT heroin or cocaine users, it's people addicted to pills like Oxycontin.

One caveat is that we don't quite know the correct dosage for pot for cancer and chronic pain patients, but more research needs to be done in this area.

Hippies will run around saying pot is a cure-all for everything, which IMHO harms medical efforts and it IS addictive, like cigarettes, caffeine, and alcohol.
2012-11-28 10:42:12 AM  
1 vote:

The All-Powerful Atheismo: ladyfortuna: My MIL gives it to her old dog, and he seems to do better on the days he gets it. Pretty sure he's not operating under the placebo effect...

there's your placebo effect.


I had a friend whose dog suffered arthritis or some joint ailment. Her vet recommended glucosamine pills for dogs. They were freaking huge like horse sized pills, prescription I think and my friend complained that they cost a ton. The dog originally stayed up nights whining and wailing in pain and apparently when the dog started receiving the glucosamine supplement, the dog could sleep through the nights without crying. I think the "not squealing bloody murder" is a fairly concrete measurement of the dog's status that does not allow for observer's bias. It isn't proof that glucosamine is a magic cure for any human ailment or even proof that it cured anything for the dog. The dog still eventually died from ailments relating to its age. I just hope that the dog was in less pain near the end. Just because a person reports a positive/negative experience with some sort of drug, doesn't mean they are crazy or biased (the person isn't even the patient in the examples). All research does is iterate experiences like that and actively work to reduce bias.

Some research shows that glucosamine can be clinically useful. That's the problem with supplements. They don't make money so they don't inspire a shiat ton of well designed research studies. Another problem is that they aren't highly regulated, so you don't always know what you are getting when you buy a bottle. The substances aren't guaranteed pure like the prescription pills at the pharmacy.
2012-11-28 10:33:52 AM  
1 vote:
But Seth MacFarlane has gotten millions of dollars out of suckers because of one of those supplements. So it must be working.
2012-11-28 10:18:52 AM  
1 vote:

Headso: meanmutton: there's no such thing as homeopathic medicine.

tell that to the cancer patients that smoke weed to keep food down.


Homeopathic medicine has no more in common with the anti-nauseogenic properties of marijuana than chiropracty does.
2012-11-28 08:36:23 AM  
1 vote:

SundaesChild: In other words, the pharmaceutical companies aren't making any money off them, so buy their drugs instead?


If they worked, the pharmaceutical companies would just patent them and make money off of them.
2012-11-28 08:24:05 AM  
1 vote:

GardenWeasel: HindiDiscoMonster: fusillade762: Belladonna is still cool, though, right?

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 390x295]
/Approves

Eh? So... Belladonna is a witch?


No, it's what they used in Contac cold medicine's "tiny time pills" before the FDA banned it.
2012-11-28 07:57:22 AM  
1 vote:

whidbey: Wow another right-wing "expert" utterly dismissing homeopathic medicine.

How novel.


Homeopathic is crap, you know that right? Homeopathic "medicine" is created by taking some substance with no proven ability to cure an ailment and diluting it with so much water that there are statistically 0 molecules of the original substance in the vial given to the patient.


IT'S JUST WATER
2012-11-28 07:42:01 AM  
1 vote:

fusillade762: Belladonna is still cool, though, right?


3.bp.blogspot.com
/Approves
2012-11-28 07:41:20 AM  
1 vote:
ITT: buttheads who don't understand the scientific method share anecdotes and whine about nonexistent conspiracies because they are reluctant to own up to believing in a set of myths that together add up to a derptastic new age religion.
2012-11-28 06:58:24 AM  
1 vote:

BostonEMT: If we're going to get technical here, the FDA considers OXYGEN a drug and regulates it (in its pure form), then lets not forget that CHEERIOS was threatened by the FDA because they help lower cholesterol... the FDA is a joke and a sham. just like 1/2 of the other federal agencies...


The FDA told General Mills to stop making unproven health claims, such as they help lower cholesterol, which is their job.
2012-11-28 05:32:52 AM  
1 vote:

That Guy in the Dos Equis Commercials: Anyone who says marijuana doesnt work clearly was using the placebo.


Yeah unfortunately for you marijuana actually does not work for a lot of people, and often doesn't work any better than an NSAID or a placebo. As mentioned in another post, a lot of relief people with chronic pain feel is placebo effect, simply because chronic pain usually has a psychogenic component, Red pills work better than blue, injections of saline work better than sugar pills. And just because it can't literally kill you does not mean long-term marijuana use doesn't have side effects (besides being intensely boring and giggly).

Just because stoners like to get high doesn't make marijuana some sort of wonder medicine. And stop riding on the backs of desperately ill people because you're too lame to just stand up in front of the world and say "I like to get farked up, I like to do it with marijuana, and I want it to be legal".

You're not helping, coward. In fact, you're hurting the cause for medical marijuana.
2012-11-28 03:38:20 AM  
1 vote:

Pointy Tail of Satan: Tobin_Lam: Ashelth: ktybear: Fixxor: any word on the effectiveness of echinacea? anyone?

/srsly. my gf makes me take it when i start to look/sound sick and i just want to know.

It works to help zinc uptake by your immune system but it doesn't work when you're sick. You have to take it before you get sick. Same with Vitamin C. It sort of helps but only if you're well. If you are already sick Vitamin C in large doses wrecks your kidneys. [not getting citations cause I'm sick but I do remember these studies ]

So much fail in 2 lines of text.

Yep, I remember the studies that said Vitamin C doesn't really do anything. It won't keep you from getting a cold and it won't make it go away any faster.

I suspect historical sufferers of scurvy might take umbrage with your assessment.


You're assuming the majority of people in the West are getting the RDA of Vitamin C, every day. Truth is, very few are.

Most people are, at least in terms of vit C, potassium and a whole load of other vitamins and minerals, quite malnourished. Ergo, if they're coming down with a cold, taking a load of vitamin C isn't going to do much to stop the cold itself, but will counteract the normal malnourishment they've got, and so will make them feel better, and help their body fight the infection (which it wouldn't actually need help fighting if they weren't so fricking scurvy-ridden).

If you think this is not true, I can tell you of a recent local health survey, where tests showed that almost 40% of under-10's in the area had mild vit. C malnourishment, and around 1% were technically suffering from scurvy.
Turns out a quarter-pounder with cheese don't got much vitamin C.
2012-11-28 03:29:57 AM  
1 vote:
Anyone who says marijuana doesnt work clearly was using the placebo.
2012-11-28 03:22:48 AM  
1 vote:

SundaesChild: 1000 Ways to Dye: It's a couple years old, but here's a cool infographic on the various supplements and the amount of evidence that supports their claims.

Link

I like that chart. I'd move Aloe up though. I have been using it as a facial cleanser since I was 16. I am 41 now. I get carded all the time. I get carded when other people at my table who are my age or younger are passed over. Aloe Vera is awesome for skin care.


Yeeeees, because the amount of acne you get to begin with doesn't change between 16 and 41 on its own or anything.

Tobin_Lam: fluffy2097: Gyrfalcon: Or getting a shot of penicillin either, which does nothing against a virus.

Nobody prescribes antibiotics for a virus. They kill bacteria, not viruses.

They don't use penicillin anymore either. Bacteria have become resistant to it.

I recently got told by a nurse at an Urgent Care clinic that I had bacterial flu. I skip them now and just go to the ER.


Medical personnel don't like using the phrase "a cold" to describe... a cold, for some reason. There's not really a general-use word for the general category of mild respiratory diseases with similarly mild fever, so they often use "flu" as a colloquial fill-in. In common use, the vast majority of the time that someone has 'the flu' they don't literally have the influenza virus either.

Also, if you're seriously going to the ER/Urgent Care for a goddamned cold, you're a terrible person and for once I mean that entirely seriously instead of with the usual internet hyperbolic tone. People like you are why folks with actual for real medical problems sometimes can't get help or can't afford it.
2012-11-28 03:11:11 AM  
1 vote:
Hit piece. Now go back to your genetically modified wheat, high fructose corn syrup, fluoridated water. And of course pharmaceuticals.
2012-11-28 02:40:56 AM  
1 vote:

ktybear: Fixxor: any word on the effectiveness of echinacea? anyone?

/srsly. my gf makes me take it when i start to look/sound sick and i just want to know.

It works to help zinc uptake by your immune system but it doesn't work when you're sick. You have to take it before you get sick. Same with Vitamin C. It sort of helps but only if you're well. If you are already sick Vitamin C in large doses wrecks your kidneys. [not getting citations cause I'm sick but I do remember these studies ]


So much fail in 2 lines of text.
2012-11-28 02:27:59 AM  
1 vote:

Gyrfalcon: Or getting a shot of penicillin either, which does nothing against a virus.


Nobody prescribes antibiotics for a virus. They kill bacteria, not viruses.

They don't use penicillin anymore either. Bacteria have become resistant to it.
2012-11-28 02:15:56 AM  
1 vote:
Bah. I'll stick with my old fashioned Nuka-Colas and stimpaks.
2012-11-28 02:15:43 AM  
1 vote:

Smeggy Smurf: Bullshiat glucosamine doesn't work. It was the only thing that helped me recover from bursitis in both knees at the same time. Physical therapy, large doses of NSAIDS, opiates, etc. Not a goddamned thing did more than dull the agony. It made it so I could walk without a cane but that was all. I started taking glucosamine and it made enough of an improvement that after 4 years of barely being able to walk the other therapies were able to finally start working.

Today I'm limited only in my ability to run. A quarter mile is all the knees can handle but I can walk 10 miles or ride a bike halfway to forever.


Heh, I'm sure your physical therapist appreciates that. "I worked with this guy for four years, and finally got him walking, and he credits the snake oil pill he started taking two weeks ago."

Just think about what you're saying. If glucosamine significantly improved bursitis, why wouldn't a doctor recomend that instead of physical therapy? Conspiracy?
2012-11-28 02:13:29 AM  
1 vote:

ladyfortuna: wiredmaverick: Glucosamine was recently upgraded to an "A" rating for osteoarthritis of the knee by Natural Standard (generally considered to be the most important natural health products resource among health care professionals).

They consider an "A" to be:

Statistically significant evidence of benefit from >2 properly randomized trials (RCTs), OR evidence from one properly conducted RCT AND one properly conducted meta-analysis, OR evidence from multiple RCTs with a clear majority of the properly conducted trials showing statistically significant evidence of benefit AND with supporting evidence in basic science, animal studies, or theory.

My MIL gives it to her old dog, and he seems to do better on the days he gets it. Pretty sure he's not operating under the placebo effect...


Well for an adult human it's supposed to take several weeks to a month of taking it 3x daily to start feeling an effect, so I kind of doubt it. But who knows really. Maybe dogs have different cartilage building mechanisms than we do.

Anyway my point was just that glucosamine with chondroitin is currently considered to be one of the safest, most effective and most cost effective therapies for mild-moderate osteoarthritis of the knee. Unlike the majority of natural health products, this one seems to work.

/pharmacist
2012-11-28 02:06:14 AM  
1 vote:

ladyfortuna: The All-Powerful Atheismo: ladyfortuna: My MIL gives it to her old dog, and he seems to do better on the days he gets it. Pretty sure he's not operating under the placebo effect...

there's your placebo effect.

Yeah, because his ability to go on longer hikes is really just in my mind. /shrug


That's the problem with anecdotal evidence. For every story like yours there are untold stories where nothing happened to benefit someone taking the same dose with a similar problems. You end up with confirmation bias skewing the results. You could have been taking sugar pills and had the same result.

That's why controlled studies are important -- to filter out bias and coincidence.

How many people insisted radium pills and toothpaste "invigorated" their health in the 1910's?
2012-11-28 02:00:12 AM  
1 vote:

GarretSidzaka: my condolences


light up a doobie for me would you? Just put it on the tombstone. There's a little hole on the top for it.

/The casket is actually quite comfy. I've got a computer and TV and everything down here.
//Getting rid of the poo is a bit complicated but I do manage.
2012-11-28 02:00:06 AM  
1 vote:

ladyfortuna: My MIL gives it to her old dog, and he seems to do better on the days he gets it. Pretty sure he's not operating under the placebo effect...


there's your placebo effect.
2012-11-28 01:59:29 AM  
1 vote:
Thanks be to Orrin Hatch!!!

/"business" in Mormon-speak = MLM via unregulated supplements
2012-11-28 01:58:56 AM  
1 vote:

Fano: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: SundaesChild: In other words, the pharmaceutical companies aren't making any money off them, so buy their drugs instead?

Idiot

It's like no one ever heard of Big Nutra, right? Where can I get on a piece of the " we don't have to prove it works, nor do we have to verify dosages, but just trust that this root will rewangify you"


THIS

Imply that your nutraceutical does something, but never state it outright.Foreign-sounding words and magic ingredients are crack to the yoga-loving pseudo-hippie chicks at Sprouts and Whole Foods. If they want to take something home and pretend it's good for them, it should be me.
2012-11-28 01:53:24 AM  
1 vote:

1000 Ways to Dye: It's a couple years old, but here's a cool infographic on the various supplements and the amount of evidence that supports their claims.

Link


I like that chart. I'd move Aloe up though. I have been using it as a facial cleanser since I was 16. I am 41 now. I get carded all the time. I get carded when other people at my table who are my age or younger are passed over. Aloe Vera is awesome for skin care.
2012-11-28 01:50:57 AM  
1 vote:

fluffy2097: I died from marijuana years ago.

I'm still dead today.


my condolences
2012-11-28 01:43:42 AM  
1 vote:

SundaesChild: In other words, the pharmaceutical companies aren't making any money off them, so buy their drugs instead?


Except, the major pharmaceutical companies make a killing off selling herbal supplements. They play both sides of the fence, and do it effectively.
2012-11-28 01:43:20 AM  
1 vote:

fusillade762: Belladonna is still cool, though, right?


The pornstar?
2012-11-28 01:40:09 AM  
1 vote:
Belladonna is still cool, though, right?
2012-11-28 01:38:14 AM  
1 vote:

Herr Docktor Heinrich Wisenheimer: Glucosamine is not entirely useless.


There is only ONE clinical study where glucosamine/chondroitin was shown to have any affect on joint health and the statistical benefits were within the margin of error. The snake oil industry jumped on it like Elmo on a 16 year old.

Otherwise it's marketing hype + placebo effect.
2012-11-28 01:35:19 AM  
1 vote:

Notabunny: You know how I know you've never taken Codeine


I did as a wayward Texan teen in the mid 00s.

i264.photobucket.com
2012-11-28 01:34:11 AM  
1 vote:

Herr Docktor Heinrich Wisenheimer: Glucosamine is not entirely useless.

Ephedra works for weight loss and on asthma, but yeah, it's dangerous.


FYI, in 2010 there was a study that is making people back off on the effectiveness of glucosamine. Like a 'Maybe this isn't as effective as we thought.'

For six months, he and his colleagues gave 250 adults with chronic lower back pain and degenerative osteoarthritis either 2,500 mg daily of glucosamine sulfate or a placebo. At the six-month and one-year marks, there weren't any significant differences among patients in the two groups. Both groups did seem to be helped by the placebo effect, which is common in pain patients, in which people apparently feel better simply because they are receiving treatment.
2012-11-28 01:28:27 AM  
1 vote:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: SundaesChild: In other words, the pharmaceutical companies aren't making any money off them, so buy their drugs instead?

Idiot


It's like no one ever heard of Big Nutra, right? Where can I get on a piece of the " we don't have to prove it works, nor do we have to verify dosages, but just trust that this root will rewangify you"
2012-11-28 01:27:35 AM  
1 vote:

Notabunny: TheJoe03: If marijuana doesn't work, then all the BS pills made for "pain relief" don't work either. Subby be trollin.

You know how I know you've never taken Codeine and Flexeril?


Gah. Never talk to me about Codeine. Never again.

/the spins
//oh god, the spins
2012-11-28 01:26:28 AM  
1 vote:
Uhh, ephedra is so regulated, because they forced all the manufacturers to replace it with something else. Metabolife was in interesting experiment, back when I was just out of highschool.

/I blame my ex and his constant search for weight loss remedies
2012-11-28 01:24:20 AM  
1 vote:
One of these things is not like the other.

And that thing works like a hot damn.
2012-11-28 01:24:10 AM  
1 vote:
I have a right to expensive pee!
2012-11-28 01:23:21 AM  
1 vote:
If marijuana doesn't work, then all the BS pills made for "pain relief" don't work either. Subby be trollin.
2012-11-28 01:22:48 AM  
1 vote:

SundaesChild: In other words, the pharmaceutical companies aren't making any money off them, so buy their drugs instead?


Idiot
2012-11-28 01:21:24 AM  
1 vote:
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
2012-11-27 10:28:39 PM  
1 vote:
Glucosamine is not entirely useless.

Ephedra works for weight loss and on asthma, but yeah, it's dangerous.
 
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