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(IGN)   Good news for Nintendo: They sold over 400,000 Wii U consoles over Black Friday Week. Better news for Microsoft: They sold over 750,000 XBox 360s during the same week   (ign.com) divider line 125
    More: Interesting, Wii U, xbox, Nintendo, Microsoft, Xbox Live  
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1345 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Nov 2012 at 7:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-28 10:02:05 AM  

Smackledorfer: Smackledorfer: That seems a stretch.

also, we are talking about whether company A is a failure we should all pile on or not. Nobody is making that claim about microsoft, but if they were I'd have no problem pointing to other revenue streams.

I don't think anyone, not even the most rabid nintendo fanboy, is claiming nintendo is the superior gaming company.

Also a prediction: the 'gimmick' of the wii-u will be poorly executed, but done just well enough that both microsoft and sony get in on the game for their next gen :)


Microsoft smart glass is pretty much already there and it's accomplished by a firmware update for the 360. A standard size screen would be an improvement but the possibilities are endless. Imagine having a Google maps like interface for a map of skyrim or Los Santos on your phone or tablet. That's just plain awesome no matter how you slice it.
 
2012-11-28 10:02:40 AM  

Smackledorfer: Dedicated gamimg devices, even including pcs for gaming, seems like a better category than one including cellphones.


Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch, but I would have thought the PC would have been the one being objected to. Cell phones are currently encroaching on the 3DS and Vita market in a big way. Windows Phones not so much, but the iPhone/iPod touch scares the living hell out of Nintendo and Sony in terms of stealing their mobile market share.
 
2012-11-28 10:12:33 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Smackledorfer: Dedicated gamimg devices, even including pcs for gaming, seems like a better category than one including cellphones.

Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch, but I would have thought the PC would have been the one being objected to. Cell phones are currently encroaching on the 3DS and Vita market in a big way. Windows Phones not so much, but the iPhone/iPod touch scares the living hell out of Nintendo and Sony in terms of stealing their mobile market share.


which I don't quite get. For casual gamers maybe. The Dungeon Hunter type games I can muddle through on a small touch only interface like my cell phone, and ones like Angry Birds. My 3ds is great for PM: Sticker Star, and my Vita is geting a work out with Gravity Rush, All stars and GOW titles. I've tried doing the GTA ports on ipad etc, and really am not a fan of the touch controls
 
2012-11-28 10:16:47 AM  

Doc Daneeka: But even if you're only talking about home consoles and excluding handhelds and other devices, Nintendo moved 700,000 last week (400,000 Wii U + 300,000 Wii), which is practically the same number of Xboxes that Microsoft sold.


That's more of a fair comparison, in my opinion. Once you start adding in handhelds, it gets weird these days because you have smartphones starting to eat up the mobile gaming marketshare, especially with Xbox Live support for the games on Windows Phone. Windows Phone hasn't been setting the world on fire so far, but the Lumia 920 and HTC 8X to be selling strong, so there is the potential for Windows Phone to eventually carve out a decent chunk of marketshare over time. Certain games don't translate well over to the phone like act
 
2012-11-28 10:29:30 AM  

olapbill: Mad_Radhu: Smackledorfer: Dedicated gamimg devices, even including pcs for gaming, seems like a better category than one including cellphones.

Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch, but I would have thought the PC would have been the one being objected to. Cell phones are currently encroaching on the 3DS and Vita market in a big way. Windows Phones not so much, but the iPhone/iPod touch scares the living hell out of Nintendo and Sony in terms of stealing their mobile market share.

which I don't quite get. For casual gamers maybe. The Dungeon Hunter type games I can muddle through on a small touch only interface like my cell phone, and ones like Angry Birds. My 3ds is great for PM: Sticker Star, and my Vita is geting a work out with Gravity Rush, All stars and GOW titles. I've tried doing the GTA ports on ipad etc, and really am not a fan of the touch controls


It depends on the type of game you are looking at. Platformers aren't great unless you adapt them to the touch interface, and maybe use some of the tricks like the Wii U uses like drawing a path on screen. RTS and RPGs, however, translate into touch pretty well since they are driven by onscreen options. Something like Infinity Blade really shows what you can do with a touch UI, however.
 
2012-11-28 10:42:02 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Smackledorfer: Dedicated gamimg devices, even including pcs for gaming, seems like a better category than one including cellphones.

Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch, but I would have thought the PC would have been the one being objected to. Cell phones are currently encroaching on the 3DS and Vita market in a big way. Windows Phones not so much, but the iPhone/iPod touch scares the living hell out of Nintendo and Sony in terms of stealing their mobile market share.


I'd say finding new markets more than taking them.

My galaxy 2 is no ds for gaming fun.
 
2012-11-28 10:57:41 AM  

Smackledorfer: Mad_Radhu: Smackledorfer: Dedicated gamimg devices, even including pcs for gaming, seems like a better category than one including cellphones.

Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch, but I would have thought the PC would have been the one being objected to. Cell phones are currently encroaching on the 3DS and Vita market in a big way. Windows Phones not so much, but the iPhone/iPod touch scares the living hell out of Nintendo and Sony in terms of stealing their mobile market share.

I'd say finding new markets more than taking them.

My galaxy 2 is no ds for gaming fun.


I have an iPad (3rd gen) and an iPhone 4S and a Nook Tablet.

I'd still rather play games on my five-year-old DS. Touchscreen games are often a PITA to control. You really need at least a d-pad and some buttons. And when you download iPhone games for free or for 99¢, you generally get what you pay for - extremely shallow, simplistic games with no depth or lasting value.

When television first became commonplace, and everyone started getting sets installed in their homes, plenty of people were sounding the death knell for movie theaters. Why would anyone go pay more money to sit in a theater and watch a film when they can watch as many hours of television broadcasts as they want for free? Of course, Hollywood is still doing fine all these decades later, and blockbuster movies make hundreds of millions of dollars in box office. That's because movie theaters offer an experience that you can't get in your living room, so they offer a different value proposition.

In the same way, both cheap phone/tablet/Facebook games and full-price console/handheld games will coexist. They offer different value propositions. You pay more for a 3DS game or a console game than you do to play Angry Birds or Farmville, but you get a much richer experience for your money.
 
2012-11-28 11:06:24 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Smackledorfer: Mad_Radhu: Smackledorfer: Dedicated gamimg devices, even including pcs for gaming, seems like a better category than one including cellphones.

Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch, but I would have thought the PC would have been the one being objected to. Cell phones are currently encroaching on the 3DS and Vita market in a big way. Windows Phones not so much, but the iPhone/iPod touch scares the living hell out of Nintendo and Sony in terms of stealing their mobile market share.

I'd say finding new markets more than taking them.

My galaxy 2 is no ds for gaming fun.

I have an iPad (3rd gen) and an iPhone 4S and a Nook Tablet.

I'd still rather play games on my five-year-old DS. Touchscreen games are often a PITA to control. You really need at least a d-pad and some buttons. And when you download iPhone games for free or for 99¢, you generally get what you pay for - extremely shallow, simplistic games with no depth or lasting value.

When television first became commonplace, and everyone started getting sets installed in their homes, plenty of people were sounding the death knell for movie theaters. Why would anyone go pay more money to sit in a theater and watch a film when they can watch as many hours of television broadcasts as they want for free? Of course, Hollywood is still doing fine all these decades later, and blockbuster movies make hundreds of millions of dollars in box office. That's because movie theaters offer an experience that you can't get in your living room, so they offer a different value proposition.

In the same way, both cheap phone/tablet/Facebook games and full-price console/handheld games will coexist. They offer different value propositions. You pay more for a 3DS game or a console game than you do to play Angry Birds or Farmville, but you get a much richer experience for your money.


You just haven't tried hard enough. May I suggest the Moga Pivot for your smartphone?

canadianonlinegamers.com
cdn.androidpolice.com
www.offdutygamers.com

It folds up to be very compact, but when you want to game you pop your phone into it and pair via Bluetooth. It works great in Android once you load the unlock patch available on the Google Play Store (for free). It's compatible with all the best emulators, too, after being patched.

This way you get the joy of controls, plus the low cost of smartphone games.

This isn't the only option, but it's a damned good one.
 
2012-11-28 11:16:00 AM  
I could see an RPG market taking off on smart phones, but even then you lose a ton of screen to get your commands up - which goes directly to your movie theater comparison, Doc Daneeka.

The weirdest thing about people who defend smart-phone gaming is that they try to play up the touch screen and play down the deficits thereof, while we see with the Wii-U and the DS that there are a ton of people who consider the second screen, the controller screen, the stylus, etc to be horrible add-ons to basic gaming.

How can something that is viewed in a negative light by so many for even being an option, but then people turn around and count angry birds or fruit ninja sales numbers and declare a touchscreen-only device the death knell for portable gaming systems? One of these two views is massively wrong, or there is a lot of overlap and people are contradicting their own views, OR the two groups are completely separate and the cellphones aren't going to dent the DS market.

Anecdotal: I don't know a single person who likes phone games who would have bought a DS if the phone games didn't exist. I know gamers, non-gamers, and the non-gamers are split between those who goof around with phone games and those who don't. I'm still going to have to call them non-gamers though.

To say nothing of phone batter power. Call me when I have an absolute minimum of 5 hours of batter life when using my phone to its fullest extent. Am I going to use my phone for 5 hours straight? Probably not, but there is nothing more frustrating than running out of battery because you browsed the internet for an extra 20 minutes during some downtime.
 
2012-11-28 11:25:46 AM  

Doc Daneeka: I'd still rather play games on my five-year-old DS. Touchscreen games are often a PITA to control. You really need at least a d-pad and some buttons. And when you download iPhone games for free or for 99¢, you generally get what you pay for - extremely shallow, simplistic games with no depth or lasting value.


You just haven't been playing enough smartphone games:

wmpoweruser.com

www.wpcentral.com

winsource.com

And that's just some examples from Windows Phone. I'm sure iOS has a lot more examples of DS-quality games.
 
2012-11-28 11:31:58 AM  

Mad_Radhu: Doc Daneeka: I'd still rather play games on my five-year-old DS. Touchscreen games are often a PITA to control. You really need at least a d-pad and some buttons. And when you download iPhone games for free or for 99¢, you generally get what you pay for - extremely shallow, simplistic games with no depth or lasting value.

You just haven't been playing enough smartphone games:

[wmpoweruser.com image 464x323]

[www.wpcentral.com image 850x253]

[winsource.com image 480x320]

And that's just some examples from Windows Phone. I'm sure iOS has a lot more examples of DS-quality games.


Yes they do. As an example Square enix makes full RPG style games available for about $14 bucks. There are many others in the $3-$5 range Personally I just don't like the controls/platform for those types of games, and prefer them on an actual hand held. YMMV.
 
2012-11-28 11:38:37 AM  

Smackledorfer: The weirdest thing about people who defend smart-phone gaming is that they try to play up the touch screen and play down the deficits thereof, while we see with the Wii-U and the DS that there are a ton of people who consider the second screen, the controller screen, the stylus, etc to be horrible add-ons to basic gaming.

How can something that is viewed in a negative light by so many for even being an option, but then people turn around and count angry birds or fruit ninja sales numbers and declare a touchscreen-only device the death knell for portable gaming systems? One of these two views is massively wrong, or there is a lot of overlap and people are contradicting their own views, OR the two groups are completely separate and the cellphones aren't going to dent the DS market.


My skepticism about the Wii U is more based on the Xbox already working SmartGlass functionality into games like Forza Horizon. Right now the support is a bit limited,] compared to what the Wii U games are doing with the touchscreen, but over time I'm seeing that removing the advantage of the Wii U's innovative controller, especially as they tweak SmartGlass to be more responsive than it currently is. Also, the majority of the titles are going to be multiplatform, so I have a feeling that the game devs will inevitably target the lowest common denominator, which means that most titles will have the touchscreen functionality tacked on rather than being integral to the game, in order to make it easier to port between the Xbox, PS3, and Wii U in the short term, and in the long term the touch screen functionality might be more built around what SmartGlass can do rather than what the Wii U controller can do (as tablet prices keep dropping, especially if Microsoft ports SmartGlass over to Kindle Fires, tablets might become cheaper than Wii U controllers).
 
2012-11-28 12:44:24 PM  

Smackledorfer: The weirdest thing about people who defend smart-phone gaming is that they try to play up the touch screen and play down the deficits thereof, while we see with the Wii-U and the DS that there are a ton of people who consider the second screen, the controller screen, the stylus, etc to be horrible add-ons to basic gaming.

How can something that is viewed in a negative light by so many for even being an option, but then people turn around and count angry birds or fruit ninja sales numbers and declare a touchscreen-only device the death knell for portable gaming systems? One of these two views is massively wrong, or there is a lot of overlap and people are contradicting their own views, OR the two groups are completely separate and the cellphones aren't going to dent the DS market.


IME, the people who deride smartphone gaming are the very same people who deride Nintendo's reliance on "gimmicks" like touchscreens.
 
2012-11-28 12:45:26 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Smackledorfer: The weirdest thing about people who defend smart-phone gaming is that they try to play up the touch screen and play down the deficits thereof, while we see with the Wii-U and the DS that there are a ton of people who consider the second screen, the controller screen, the stylus, etc to be horrible add-ons to basic gaming.

How can something that is viewed in a negative light by so many for even being an option, but then people turn around and count angry birds or fruit ninja sales numbers and declare a touchscreen-only device the death knell for portable gaming systems? One of these two views is massively wrong, or there is a lot of overlap and people are contradicting their own views, OR the two groups are completely separate and the cellphones aren't going to dent the DS market.

My skepticism about the Wii U is more based on the Xbox already working SmartGlass functionality into games like Forza Horizon. Right now the support is a bit limited,] compared to what the Wii U games are doing with the touchscreen, but over time I'm seeing that removing the advantage of the Wii U's innovative controller, especially as they tweak SmartGlass to be more responsive than it currently is. Also, the majority of the titles are going to be multiplatform, so I have a feeling that the game devs will inevitably target the lowest common denominator, which means that most titles will have the touchscreen functionality tacked on rather than being integral to the game, in order to make it easier to port between the Xbox, PS3, and Wii U in the short term, and in the long term the touch screen functionality might be more built around what SmartGlass can do rather than what the Wii U controller can do (as tablet prices keep dropping, especially if Microsoft ports SmartGlass over to Kindle Fires, tablets might become cheaper than Wii U controllers).


it's kind of still a market division tho, as in every Wii U comes with the tablet, it's a necessary component to running the system while smartglass is completely optional

i think the real threat to the Wii U is when tablets become powerful enough they can use Wifi Miracast (the tech the Wii U uses to push super low latent video to the tablet in 480p) to push 1080p from the tablet to any tv

at that point the Wii U largely becomes meaningless, nintendo is probably hoping that won't happen until the Wii U is well established if not near the end of its life cycle (which is also when tablets will become that powerful, so it works out either way)
 
2012-11-28 12:46:29 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Smackledorfer: The weirdest thing about people who defend smart-phone gaming is that they try to play up the touch screen and play down the deficits thereof, while we see with the Wii-U and the DS that there are a ton of people who consider the second screen, the controller screen, the stylus, etc to be horrible add-ons to basic gaming.

How can something that is viewed in a negative light by so many for even being an option, but then people turn around and count angry birds or fruit ninja sales numbers and declare a touchscreen-only device the death knell for portable gaming systems? One of these two views is massively wrong, or there is a lot of overlap and people are contradicting their own views, OR the two groups are completely separate and the cellphones aren't going to dent the DS market.

IME, the people who deride smartphone gaming are the very same people who deride Nintendo's reliance on "gimmicks" like touchscreens.


100% true :/
 
2012-11-28 12:49:50 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Smackledorfer: The weirdest thing about people who defend smart-phone gaming is that they try to play up the touch screen and play down the deficits thereof, while we see with the Wii-U and the DS that there are a ton of people who consider the second screen, the controller screen, the stylus, etc to be horrible add-ons to basic gaming.

How can something that is viewed in a negative light by so many for even being an option, but then people turn around and count angry birds or fruit ninja sales numbers and declare a touchscreen-only device the death knell for portable gaming systems? One of these two views is massively wrong, or there is a lot of overlap and people are contradicting their own views, OR the two groups are completely separate and the cellphones aren't going to dent the DS market.

My skepticism about the Wii U is more based on the Xbox already working SmartGlass functionality into games like Forza Horizon. Right now the support is a bit limited,] compared to what the Wii U games are doing with the touchscreen, but over time I'm seeing that removing the advantage of the Wii U's innovative controller, especially as they tweak SmartGlass to be more responsive than it currently is. Also, the majority of the titles are going to be multiplatform, so I have a feeling that the game devs will inevitably target the lowest common denominator, which means that most titles will have the touchscreen functionality tacked on rather than being integral to the game, in order to make it easier to port between the Xbox, PS3, and Wii U in the short term, and in the long term the touch screen functionality might be more built around what SmartGlass can do rather than what the Wii U controller can do (as tablet prices keep dropping, especially if Microsoft ports SmartGlass over to Kindle Fires, tablets might become cheaper than Wii U controllers).


People keep saying that XBox can do the same thing with Smartglass and PS3 can do the same thing with the Vita, but those people forget one major factor -- both of those require additional hardware. Peripheral hardware tends not to be well supported in the console world, because it acts as an arbitrary limiter on sales. Kinect was an exception to this for a while, largely due to aggressive bundling strategies by Microsoft, but even that has seen its support wane considerably. The Wii U, OTOH, comes with its touchscreen controller in the box.

Smartglass has the added problem that the tablet hardware does not have a built-in traditional gamepad (with the exception of some dodgy Chinese Android devices, and I doubt MS will support the controllers on those things in a million years), while the Vita and Wii U controller do.
 
2012-11-28 01:05:38 PM  

Mad_Radhu: I have a feeling that the game devs will inevitably target the lowest common denominator


This is not a hard and fast rule by any means. If game devs were doing that then the Wii would have a much larger library than it does and we wouldn't be having this conversation at all :D

The real question will be market share. The Wii-U will never match the market share of the 360 and ps3, so that might cause non touchscreen games to be made for all three (which if I were a wii-U owner I would be hoping for). It may have enough market share when the next gen sony and microsoft systems come out that the Wii-U gets to set the lowest common denominator instead.

We'll see whether the makers of games even need or use any extra power those two systems will offer. I haven't upgraded my computer in years and it does everything I could need it to.
 
2012-11-28 01:34:49 PM  

MrHappyRotter: Suck it haters. For every WiiU you don't buy, I'll buy 3.


I didn't buy 100 of them.
 
2012-11-28 02:52:13 PM  

Smackledorfer: Imperious Rex!: I love my 360. That is all.

My Wii is collecting dust and has been after the first six months, and so far I see no incentive in purchasing the Wii U

I see a lot of this here. It is either hyperbole, people buying it despite not liking mario/zelda/kirby, or stupidity.

Mario galaxy 2 and skyward sword were both a blast.


It was a gift, I didn't purchase it. I like Mario, but it's not like the game has long-lasting appeal.

My wife used it for a while for Wii Fit, but she stopped when she realized she didn't need to 'play' a game to do basic exercise.
 
2012-11-28 03:31:58 PM  
Dear Microsoft,

Please bring back Rare's Killer Instinct on the 720.
 
2012-11-28 04:25:27 PM  

Dr.Knockboots: Dear Microsoft,

Please bring back Rare's Killer Instinct on the 720.


For the Kinect!
 
2012-11-28 10:42:55 PM  

Dr.Knockboots: Dear Microsoft,

Please bring back Rare's Killer Instinct on the 720.


Microsoft, if you're listening...here lies the path to my $$$. This would make me walk away from my running chain of PS/PS2/PS3 devotion. So very much THIS.

(oh how I miss throwing my controller into my opponent's lap while the Ultimate was still rolling...so satisfyling)
 
2012-11-29 09:42:02 AM  

Fano: I sure would like a decent game for the 3ds that isn;t named Ocarina of Time. I'm still waiting


If you like turn-based strategy, "Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars" was decent enough.
 
2012-11-29 03:17:57 PM  

Egoy3k: Imagine having a Google maps like interface for a map of skyrim or Los Santos on your phone or tablet. That's just plain awesome no matter how you slice it.


On one hand yes, that does sound pretty nifty. On the other... how much more shiatty are the games on the 360 going to become to make use of it?

To do Skyrim (or Fallout 3 or indeed any big open world game) it's already had the map chunks reduced in size, the graphics turned down, the FOV locked, draw distance reduced and it can just.. JUST do 720p and maintain 30fps. Now you want it to dedicate a chunk of it's 512MB RAM (90% of which is in use by the GPU at this point in time) and CPU cycles to encode a video stream and send it over the network?

Sure, but now you're running at 15fps or your having to render the game as a postage stamp and upscale it.

It's a good idea and I'm sure the 720 will do it justice but the 360 is pretty much at its limit already.
 
2012-11-29 07:49:07 PM  
I picked up the Wii U on launch day. Nintendo land games are good fun with other people, hell some of the single player ones even kick ass.

New Super Mario Wii U is great. It is very nostalgic and brings me back to the days of super mario world.

Unfortunately there are no other games I want yet. I really bought this thing for the TVii functionality that is not yet here...

With this being said, Mario Kart U and Super Smash U will kick some serious ass, i can bet on it. I really think Nintendo did a really great job with the Wii U; if only because it's HD. The jump from Wii to Wii U will be much more significant than the jump from a ps3 to ps4.

I'm really intrigued by the tablet controller and seriously think this system is going to surprise the Ps3/360 fanboys with some of Nintendos quality releases. I plan to buy the next gen consoles as well (specifically Ps4), but Nintendo has something here that is really going to be huge if executed correctly.

/I've owned almost every major system since NES
//only 2 i missed were 360 and Gamecube
 
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