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(Fox Business)   The Land of the Free strikes again. Intrade has to pull its US operations because federal regulators have left it with no path to legally function   (foxbusiness.com) divider line 59
    More: Sad, Land Of The Free, Commodity Futures Trading Commission, U.S., governors  
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3635 clicks; posted to Business » on 27 Nov 2012 at 7:53 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-27 04:44:37 PM
What dicks. farking regulators also made me close down my meth lab and moonshine operations.
 
2012-11-27 04:47:16 PM
You can only bet on futures if Wall Street makes money off of it.
 
2012-11-27 04:48:52 PM
Illegal gambling is still illegal?
 
2012-11-27 04:56:26 PM

xynix: Illegal gambling is still illegal?


True, but it's still stupid.
 
2012-11-27 04:58:44 PM
Does this mean ETFs are illegal now too?
 
2012-11-27 05:00:15 PM

BSABSVR: xynix: Illegal gambling is still illegal?

True, but it's still stupid.


Regulating commodity exchanges is stupid?
 
2012-11-27 05:16:12 PM

rumpelstiltskin: BSABSVR: xynix: Illegal gambling is still illegal?

True, but it's still stupid.

Regulating commodity exchanges is stupid?



No, but the government should have a path for a site like this to be under the umbrella of regulators.
 
2012-11-27 05:20:48 PM

downstairs: rumpelstiltskin: BSABSVR: xynix: Illegal gambling is still illegal?

True, but it's still stupid.

Regulating commodity exchanges is stupid?


No, but the government should have a path for a site like this to be under the umbrella of regulators.


It's gambling.. It's regulated in Vegas. Take it to Vegas.
 
2012-11-27 05:22:11 PM

rumpelstiltskin: BSABSVR: xynix: Illegal gambling is still illegal?

True, but it's still stupid.

Regulating commodity exchanges is stupid?


Intrade is a commodity exchange? I didn't think anything changed hands on it. It was just a speculation market.
 
2012-11-27 05:30:33 PM
Gambling in America is just dandy, as long as the suckers are giving their money to the government or casino operators. This on-line stuff threatens their bottom line.
 
2012-11-27 05:32:17 PM

downstairs: rumpelstiltskin: BSABSVR: xynix: Illegal gambling is still illegal?

True, but it's still stupid.

Regulating commodity exchanges is stupid?


No, but the government should have a path for a site like this to be under the umbrella of regulators.


They did have a path. An agreement signed in 2005 or so between Intrade and the CFTC stipulated that Intrade wouldn't sell bets to US citizens on regulated commodities. Intrade signed the agreement, then ignored it, prompting the recent CFTC complaint.
 
2012-11-27 05:34:53 PM

BSABSVR: rumpelstiltskin: BSABSVR: xynix: Illegal gambling is still illegal?

True, but it's still stupid.

Regulating commodity exchanges is stupid?

Intrade is a commodity exchange? I didn't think anything changed hands on it. It was just a speculation market.


Commodities hardly ever change hands in a commodity market (relative to transaction volume). That would be an almost worthless characterization a commodity market.
 
2012-11-27 05:36:37 PM
Actually, it had to pull out because while the stuff it is known for - betting on elections and all of that - is perfectly legal, people were placing money on commodities exchanges, which Intrade promised to keep off but failed to do so.
 
2012-11-27 05:37:34 PM
Well, not "perfectly" legal, but not the problem.

But hey, let's ignore the actual facts for some Fox butthurt.
 
2012-11-27 05:38:35 PM

rumpelstiltskin: They did have a path. An agreement signed in 2005 or so between Intrade and the CFTC stipulated that Intrade wouldn't sell bets to US citizens on regulated commodities. Intrade signed the agreement, then ignored it, prompting the recent CFTC complaint.



Can you explain this more?  Is "Will Romney or Obama win in 2012" a regulated commodity?  Because isn't that all they're selling?
 
Isn't a regulated commodity something like oranges, soy beans, stocks, etc.?
 
2012-11-27 05:42:07 PM

rumpelstiltskin: BSABSVR: rumpelstiltskin: BSABSVR: xynix: Illegal gambling is still illegal?

True, but it's still stupid.

Regulating commodity exchanges is stupid?

Intrade is a commodity exchange? I didn't think anything changed hands on it. It was just a speculation market.

Commodities hardly ever change hands in a commodity market (relative to transaction volume). That would be an almost worthless characterization a commodity market.


Are you going to explain why I am incorrect or are you just going to continue to be a farking prick? I am always interested in learning new things. I am significantly less interested in being condescended to by a douche.
 
2012-11-27 05:46:09 PM
If there's one thing we wont' stand for as Americans it's market based solutions to complex future predictions
 
2012-11-27 05:47:59 PM

GAT_00: Actually, it had to pull out because while the stuff it is known for - betting on elections and all of that - is perfectly legal, people were placing money on commodities exchanges, which Intrade promised to keep off but failed to do so.


Wait, so intrade is being shutdown because it accidentally became a commodity options exchange, and not because it's a casino?

I never saw that coming.
 
2012-11-27 05:48:50 PM

downstairs: rumpelstiltskin: They did have a path. An agreement signed in 2005 or so between Intrade and the CFTC stipulated that Intrade wouldn't sell bets to US citizens on regulated commodities. Intrade signed the agreement, then ignored it, prompting the recent CFTC complaint.


Can you explain this more?  Is "Will Romney or Obama win in 2012" a regulated commodity?  Because isn't that all they're selling?
 
Isn't a regulated commodity something like oranges, soy beans, stocks, etc.?


You could also make bets on things like "Will oil sell for more than a hundred dollars a barrel by Christmas?"
The CFTC didn't care at all about the prop bets. What they did care about were the things that looked like futures contracts on commodities. Now, I don't know if they should have cared; I don't know if anyone ever placed a serious bet on oil on Intrade. I can imagine it happening, though, and if it did happen, then you would want to be sure about things like who's making the market, and can they afford to make the market, and what if they blow up. I suspect no serious bets were placed because no serious bettor would risk his money on Intrade. The CFTC is just making sure stupid (American) bettors don't risk their money, either, I guess.
 
2012-11-27 05:49:06 PM

rumpelstiltskin: BSABSVR: rumpelstiltskin: BSABSVR: xynix: Illegal gambling is still illegal?

True, but it's still stupid.

Regulating commodity exchanges is stupid?

Intrade is a commodity exchange? I didn't think anything changed hands on it. It was just a speculation market.

Commodities hardly ever change hands in a commodity market (relative to transaction volume). That would be an almost worthless characterization a commodity market.


While true, there is an underlying item of real value.  With Intrade there isn't.
 
 
2012-11-27 05:50:36 PM

rumpelstiltskin: downstairs: rumpelstiltskin: They did have a path. An agreement signed in 2005 or so between Intrade and the CFTC stipulated that Intrade wouldn't sell bets to US citizens on regulated commodities. Intrade signed the agreement, then ignored it, prompting the recent CFTC complaint.


Can you explain this more?  Is "Will Romney or Obama win in 2012" a regulated commodity?  Because isn't that all they're selling?
 
Isn't a regulated commodity something like oranges, soy beans, stocks, etc.?

You could also make bets on things like "Will oil sell for more than a hundred dollars a barrel by Christmas?"
The CFTC didn't care at all about the prop bets. What they did care about were the things that looked like futures contracts on commodities. Now, I don't know if they should have cared; I don't know if anyone ever placed a serious bet on oil on Intrade. I can imagine it happening, though, and if it did happen, then you would want to be sure about things like who's making the market, and can they afford to make the market, and what if they blow up. I suspect no serious bets were placed because no serious bettor would risk his money on Intrade. The CFTC is just making sure stupid (American) bettors don't risk their money, either, I guess.



Thanks.  I just went to intrade (never been there before, really)... and indeed they have a slew of bets in their "financial" category.
 
Why they hell didn't they remove that?  Wow.
 
2012-11-27 05:56:06 PM

downstairs: rumpelstiltskin: downstairs: rumpelstiltskin: They did have a path. An agreement signed in 2005 or so between Intrade and the CFTC stipulated that Intrade wouldn't sell bets to US citizens on regulated commodities. Intrade signed the agreement, then ignored it, prompting the recent CFTC complaint.


Can you explain this more?  Is "Will Romney or Obama win in 2012" a regulated commodity?  Because isn't that all they're selling?
 
Isn't a regulated commodity something like oranges, soy beans, stocks, etc.?

You could also make bets on things like "Will oil sell for more than a hundred dollars a barrel by Christmas?"
The CFTC didn't care at all about the prop bets. What they did care about were the things that looked like futures contracts on commodities. Now, I don't know if they should have cared; I don't know if anyone ever placed a serious bet on oil on Intrade. I can imagine it happening, though, and if it did happen, then you would want to be sure about things like who's making the market, and can they afford to make the market, and what if they blow up. I suspect no serious bets were placed because no serious bettor would risk his money on Intrade. The CFTC is just making sure stupid (American) bettors don't risk their money, either, I guess.


Thanks.  I just went to intrade (never been there before, really)... and indeed they have a slew of bets in their "financial" category.
 
Why they hell didn't they remove that?  Wow.


They didn't expect the rules to be enforced. Probably figured they had someone paid off.
 
2012-11-27 05:57:08 PM

BSABSVR: rumpelstiltskin: BSABSVR: rumpelstiltskin: BSABSVR: xynix: Illegal gambling is still illegal?

True, but it's still stupid.

Regulating commodity exchanges is stupid?

Intrade is a commodity exchange? I didn't think anything changed hands on it. It was just a speculation market.

Commodities hardly ever change hands in a commodity market (relative to transaction volume). That would be an almost worthless characterization a commodity market.

Are you going to explain why I am incorrect or are you just going to continue to be a farking prick? I am always interested in learning new things. I am significantly less interested in being condescended to by a douche.


Well, gee, I didn't realize I was being condescending. You claimed the CFTC's actions were "stupid", so I assumed you knew what Intrade does and why the CFTC was interested in that.
 
2012-11-27 06:05:32 PM

impaler: Wait, so intrade is being shutdown because it accidentally became a commodity options exchange, and not because it's a casino?



And I'm curious how they get away by not being nailed as a casino as well...
 
2012-11-27 08:06:23 PM
You suck sometimes 'murica
 
2012-11-27 08:12:10 PM
Play by the rules or GTFO
 
2012-11-27 08:21:21 PM
Regulations made me close down my white slavery enterprises!
 
2012-11-27 08:21:40 PM
I'm sure this was about 'regulations' and protecting the market and not about Wall Street being left out of the profits.

(some of) you people are total suckers. Help us regulators, people are making free exchange!
 
2012-11-27 08:26:37 PM
Somebody sold 20,000 bushels of corn without mega bank's approval, stop them before the ruin the economy like we did.
 
2012-11-27 08:30:12 PM
How about we call it what it is? Gambling.
The more we do to separate and eliminate gambling from actual risk-taking, the stronger our economy will be.
 
2012-11-27 08:46:25 PM
Wow, those are some nice spreads = profit for the market maker. Intrade must be loving this free publicity.
 
2012-11-27 08:49:21 PM

rumpelstiltskin: Commodities hardly ever change hands in a commodity market


I heard a story about a statistics professor who thought he could do commodities futures. He got into the market, made a little money, and then forgot about it until he got a phone call from the trainyard asking when the truck was going to pick up his several tons of corn.
 
2012-11-27 08:56:57 PM
I have an Intrade account but I only used it to bet on climate stats. Not many places around you can bet when the Arctic will be ice-free...why does the US have to spoil everything it touches?
 
2012-11-27 09:30:30 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: How about we call it what it is? Gambling.
The more we do to separate and eliminate gambling from actual risk-taking, the stronger our economy will be.


... But at this point, our economy is practically based on gambling!

Oh, that's what you meant.
 
2012-11-27 09:37:13 PM

BSABSVR: xynix: Illegal gambling is still illegal?

True, but it's still stupid.


I agree with both of you.
 
2012-11-27 09:40:03 PM
Well this sucks. I'd like to thank both Intrade and Barack Obama for making me $1,400 richer this election season. Shame it won't be around for 2016.
 
2012-11-27 09:50:22 PM

Fubini: I heard a story about a statistics professor who thought he could do commodities futures. He got into the market, made a little money, and then forgot about it until he got a phone call from the trainyard asking when the truck was going to pick up his several tons of corn.


[morbo.jpg]

Commodity trades do not work that way!

Everybody's heard that story because it sounds good, but it doesn't happen. Unless you have an established business reason (for example, you're a manufacturer who routinely needs, say, copper) to take those deliveries and made arrangements beforehand to make that happen, you don't just get a big shipment of copper, you get a receipt that allows you to pick it up.

That being said, you'd have to be pretty stupid to even get the receipt. Brokerages watch those positions like hawks and are all over your ass to make the necessary arrangements as the position approaches maturity specifically so that doesn't happen. You'd have to actively ignore them or be completely indisposed to actually wind up the proud owner of ten tons of unprocessed bacon.
 
2012-11-27 09:50:29 PM
Won't someone cry for the corporations?
 
2012-11-27 09:51:14 PM
Broke the law, getting sued, forced to stop breaking the law. What's the problem, again?
 
2012-11-27 10:01:20 PM
Funny how regulators couldn't be bothered to shutdown MF Global or even locate the missing $1.8 billion, but are all over this small time operation.
 
2012-11-27 10:32:50 PM
personally, I am ok with this, because I had 250$ on Obama saying "titty sprinkles" in his Thanksgiving address.....
 
2012-11-27 10:38:21 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: You'd have to actively ignore them or be completely indisposed to actually wind up the proud owner of ten tons of unprocessed bacon.


But just imagine what kind of party such an irresponsible investor could throw with ten tons of bacon...
 
2012-11-27 11:53:47 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Fubini: I heard a story about a statistics professor who thought he could do commodities futures. He got into the market, made a little money, and then forgot about it until he got a phone call from the trainyard asking when the truck was going to pick up his several tons of corn.

[morbo.jpg]

Commodity trades do not work that way!

Everybody's heard that story because it sounds good, but it doesn't happen. Unless you have an established business reason (for example, you're a manufacturer who routinely needs, say, copper) to take those deliveries and made arrangements beforehand to make that happen, you don't just get a big shipment of copper, you get a receipt that allows you to pick it up.

That being said, you'd have to be pretty stupid to even get the receipt. Brokerages watch those positions like hawks and are all over your ass to make the necessary arrangements as the position approaches maturity specifically so that doesn't happen. You'd have to actively ignore them or be completely indisposed to actually wind up the proud owner of ten tons of unprocessed bacon.


Or doing Xanax with beer. I go from 0 to blackout like *snaps fingers*

It's entirely possible I'd get on the phone and make arrangements for delivery.
 
2012-11-28 12:08:28 AM
FTA: "...violating the agency's ban on off-exchange options trading."

You must trade thru the exchange that bribes the government into letting it be the monopoly. If anybody else sets up a business to do exactly what it is doing, they go to jail.
 
2012-11-28 12:33:50 AM
S

Titor's Time Machine: What dicks. farking regulators also made me close down my meth lab and moonshine operations.


REVENOOOOOOOOOORS!
 
2012-11-28 12:56:38 AM

GAT_00: Well, not "perfectly" legal, but not the problem.

But hey, let's ignore the actual facts for some Fox butthurt.


I see a recitation of facts in the article and not one bit of editorializing. Once again the very mention of "FOX!" causes people to start seeing phantasms.

Get your eyes checked.
i49.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-28 01:37:06 AM
Boo hoo.
 
2012-11-28 01:45:18 AM
I'm confused - do we blame Bush for this too?
 
2012-11-28 06:55:44 AM
Should I farking care about this?
 
2012-11-28 07:39:58 AM

Fenrisulfr: I'm confused - do we blame Bush for this too?


No, you just don't care because there isn't a story. Troll headline is trollerific.
 
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