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(Jezebel)   "The Casanova myth is so deeply ingrained that people are convinced that boys who claim to want relationships rather than casual sex are either incredibly rare or full of crap." or are trying to claw their way out of the "Friend Zone"   (jezebel.com ) divider line 387
    More: Interesting, Giacomo Casanova, friend zones, interpersonal relationship, cultural landscape, sexual excitement, Challenging Casanova, A Natural History of Rape, Petraeus  
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10262 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Nov 2012 at 8:46 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-27 09:11:13 PM  

Ishkur: fta: The new research about young men and romance is hard to accept because the emerging trend of "caring, romantic boys" doesn't gibe with our experiences of an older generation of men. [link goes to stat about teen pregnancies being down]

There is no trend. Teen pregnancies are down because of the availability of contraception and accessibility of pornography, not because teen boys are caring and understanding. In fact, the reverse is true, and again, its because of pornography:

Online porn has effectively desensitized teenagers from understanding what true intimacy really is. It has made teenage girls more experimentative at a time when they probably shouldn't be and it has made boys a lot more misogynistic and demanding.

There has been a noted rise in teen girls seeking their first sexual gratification from their friends (the so-called lesbian phase) because all the boys in their schools are absolute monsters. Virgin teen girls are nervous and apprehensive and vulnerable when they become sexually active. They want their first experience to be with someone they trust, and teenage boys seem to be not that interested in intimacy or anything meaningful. They want to get off and move on, in the most demeaning way possible, just like the videos they watch every night.

By the time they get to college, girls are basically competing with Redtube and Bangbus. They must put out or the guys don't care. And they must be lascivious, nasty, filthy little cum dumpsters willing to deepthroat a full load or no guy will pay any attention to them. It's all very cruel and atavistic and probably would not be so extreme without such easy access to hardcore porn as part of one's sexual education.


Go on...
 
2012-11-27 09:11:32 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: I wouldn't last long in a relationship if the sex wasn't casual.


Really? Because if the sex is frenetic and anxiety-filled, it would only come in number two on the list of "greatest things", right after "casual sex".
 
2012-11-27 09:11:49 PM  

blazemongr: It's not that guys ONLY want sex.

It's just that they want sex far, far more than anything else.


No, we want variety more than you. You have no idea of the desperately perverse things men fantasize about when they have a partner who wants to make love.
 
2012-11-27 09:11:49 PM  

Ishkur:

And they must be lascivious, nasty, filthy little cum dumpsters willing to deepthroat a full load




farm2.staticflickr.com
 
2012-11-27 09:11:56 PM  
The friend zone sucks. Don't ever be that guy in the friend zone. As the good man recommended above. Walk away.
 
2012-11-27 09:12:22 PM  
Casanova would have never gotten laid if he had gone by the English version of his name, Jack Newhouse.

Chicks are suckers for that Dago shiat.

/Changed my name from Whitehouse to Casablanca...oh man...it really works.
 
2012-11-27 09:12:31 PM  
Oh my - yes men are emotional too. Big surprise there. But I'm sorry - given the opportunity to get it on, I don't know many guys that would say no to that, emotional commitment there or not.

Now if you really want an insight into it, I suggest you google Ladder Theory.
 
2012-11-27 09:12:50 PM  
I'm asexual, so I have no choice. :-|
 
2012-11-27 09:12:57 PM  
I prefer having one beautiful, sexy, and emotionally stable girlfriend than infinite beautiful and sexy women who lack mental stability. Better alive than dead.
 
2012-11-27 09:14:08 PM  
Now that I think about it, every girl I've dated for over a year started with sex on the first "date". I don't do friend zone.
 
2012-11-27 09:14:13 PM  

CygnusDarius: AverageAmericanGuy: What a dickish thing to do. You're willing to throw away a friendship because of your own selfishness?

It hurts, it reaaaaally hurts, did this only twice, but burning bridges -while sad and horrifying as it is- is the only way out. The last friendzone festered the friendship.


Of course you realize that the person who put you in the 'friend zone' was yourself. You were the one who thought that you could ever be more than friends and pushed the point.
 
2012-11-27 09:14:45 PM  
There is a big difference between "friends" and "just friends"
 
2012-11-27 09:15:13 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: What a dickish thing to do. You're willing to throw away a friendship because of your own selfishness?


To be fair, it is really really really hard to be friends with a girl you want to fark. (cf. Ladder Theory)

You might as well just cut your losses and walk away. Saves you time and needless amounts of blue-balled frustration.
 
2012-11-27 09:15:29 PM  

RoyBatty: The guy tried to kill his girlfriend.
As a professor, the guy took a group of students on a weekend trip and slept with four of the girls.
As a professor, the guy regularly slept with his students.
He repeatedly had sex with a woman, and helped her deceive her husband into believing it was his when there was a very good chance it was Hugo's kid. He has tried to justify this continuing and ongoing deception by saying he wasn't ready to be a father.


What's his Fark handle?
 
2012-11-27 09:15:31 PM  

GreenSun: I prefer having one beautiful, sexy, and emotionally stable girlfriend than infinite beautiful and sexy women who lack mental stability. Better alive than dead.


Every man dies. Not every man really lives.
 
2012-11-27 09:15:38 PM  
Even when they're "hooking up" (a practice that is neither as novel nor as ubiquitous as wistful and censorious aging pundits imagine) these guys are engaging in the gateway behavior into what they hope will be a relationship.

Then why don't men call back after one-night stands/first date sex?

Gem from the comments: Do men JUST want sex? No. Do they choose immediate sex over a fulfilling long-term relationship? Often.

Damn right. Men often choose immediate sex, dead stop. Sorry article, still not convinced.
 
2012-11-27 09:16:13 PM  
Hugo Schwyzer is a real turd. Just a pseudo-intellectual, hypocritical clown. I loves it when Dan Savage tore him apart.
 
2012-11-27 09:16:19 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: CygnusDarius: AverageAmericanGuy: What a dickish thing to do. You're willing to throw away a friendship because of your own selfishness?

It hurts, it reaaaaally hurts, did this only twice, but burning bridges -while sad and horrifying as it is- is the only way out. The last friendzone festered the friendship.

Of course you realize that the person who put you in the 'friend zone' was yourself. You were the one who thought that you could ever be more than friends and pushed the point.


Which is the cause of about 90% of the friendzones.
 
2012-11-27 09:16:20 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: What a dickish thing to do. You're willing to throw away a friendship because of your own selfishness?


Yes, most men should be. I have plenty of male friends, more than I have time to stay in touch with anymore sadly. So maybe not that many these days. I've had female friends, we also frequently slept together. Hard to be friends with them anymore now that I'm married, but no one was very sad about it.
 
2012-11-27 09:17:17 PM  
Can't I have sex and a relationship?

/would settle for either/or at this point.
 
2012-11-27 09:17:23 PM  
I don't really want multiple sex partners, but I must admit, sexually I was happiest when I was in college and had a new girlfriend every 4-5 months.
 
2012-11-27 09:18:35 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy:
What a dickish thing to do. You're willing to throw away a friendship because of your own selfishness?


It's selfish to keep yourself on the same level as someone you admire? As he said, the relationship changed - it's not even a friendship anymore. It's something more or it's not.

We need more CygnusDarius's, really. Would break the friend zone trap guys fall into by showing girls that the easy way out (let's be friends) isn't acceptable.
 
2012-11-27 09:18:44 PM  
'Friendzoned' is a nice way of saying 'unattractive'.
 
2012-11-27 09:19:27 PM  

CygnusDarius: Outcome one.

Guy: Sorry, but the relationship changed the moment I felt something for you. I can't really accept your friendship because of it. Good day *walk away*


This is what I've been doing. I use to get friendzoned HARD pretty often. You know how in 90's sitcoms like Family Matters, Step by Step, etc there would always be stories about the douchebag alpha male trying to hit on the girl but in the end the nerdy genuine sweet guy would win her heart? Yeah, I grew up believing all that. So it's not even that I didn't just wanna get laid (of course I did) it's that I literally thought that what girls really wanted was that sweet genuine guy to treat them like a person. I spent years believing this, even seeing zero results, I just kept believing it.
The last year or so, since I got back from my last deployment, has really been an eye opening time for me. I've had a lot more success with women and it's because I stopped letting myself get walked over. I do exactly what you say. I start flirting with a girl and so forth. But the minute she gives me a "I just want to be friends"/"I'm actually talking to another guy right now..." speech, I truthfully explain to her that I cannot be friends with girls. I end up liking them too much and it ends badly anyways. Might as well end it now. Most of them are shocked that I didn't just accept their "be my friend I can ask for favors" suggestion. But a small portion have actually texted me back maybe a week later and reconsidered, and now are considering dating/hooking up. And for the majority that don't and I never see again, we're both better off.

The problem with friendzoning is just as much the guys as the girls. Guys let it happen because we're so desperate to just be around that hot girl in class/work/etc. They know it, and use it to their advantage. If guys would just man up and lay their cards down "date me or don't be part of my life" I think there would be a lot more healthy relationships. But it takes so long for individual guys to figure that out. It took me like a decade. We've been told for so long by media that the really hot popular girls want a sweet genuine honest awkward best-friend boyfriend, so tons of guys keep waiting for that to finally happen. And it (almost) never does.
 
2012-11-27 09:19:58 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: CygnusDarius: Here's an enactment of how to avoid friendzones:

Guy: See, I really like you. Let's date, and see what happens

Girl: Sorry, but, I'd like us to remain friends

Here's the two outcomes.

Outcome one.

Guy: Sorry, but the relationship changed the moment I felt something for you. I can't really accept your friendship because of it. Good day *walk away*

Outcome two.

Guy: *flips finger/vocal insult, walks away*

It's gonna be a lonely road, but it's gonna give you one thing: Self-respect.

/Has been frienzoned in college
//It ain't pretty

What a dickish thing to do. You're willing to throw away a friendship because of your own selfishness?


Friendzone isn't a friendship, it is master and slave. That sort of relationship is destructive to the slave while the woman couldn't care less and will continue to abuse the slave because they see nothing wrong with it. It is best to get your feelings out in the open and be done with it. It forces you to stop lying to yourself, to face the reality that you can't earn attraction no matter what you do.
 
2012-11-27 09:20:39 PM  
Well, you can't help it because what you see in the media is that most rich and successful men prefer farking various women than one. That's why marriage can only be applied if a person is more spiritual than usual.
 
2012-11-27 09:21:02 PM  

CygnusDarius: AverageAmericanGuy: What a dickish thing to do. You're willing to throw away a friendship because of your own selfishness?

It hurts, it reaaaaally hurts, did this only twice, but burning bridges -while sad and horrifying as it is- is the only way out. The last friendzone festered the friendship.


what? Hello no. Your an adult, not a petulant child. You don't throw a tantrum because you didn't get what you wanted.
 
2012-11-27 09:22:21 PM  

taurusowner: But a small portion have actually texted me back maybe a week later and reconsidered, and now are considering dating/hooking up. And for the majority that don't and I never see again, we're both better off.


Excellent point. The only outcomes are both wins, and you've probably actually got a better chance of hooking up with her if you show some sack.
 
2012-11-27 09:22:27 PM  
Well, sometimes we DO just want sex. But sometimes we want more.
I fail to see why these are mutually exclusive options.
If the point is that men don't want casual sex *exclusively* then yeah, sure. Everyone at some point is interested in deep, long-term companionship. But even for guys in his "3rd group", not every hook-up is an attempt or practice round for starting up a relationship. Sometimes we DO just want to slut around, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
2012-11-27 09:22:31 PM  
 
2012-11-27 09:22:42 PM  

LazerFish: There is a big difference between "friends" and "just friends"


Just friends is worse than mortal enemies. Enemies can't ruin your day by doing nothing. The have to try hard and succeed to do that. Just friends, though, can only do one thing to not ruin your day. Everything else they do or do not do hits you where it hurts.
 
2012-11-27 09:23:01 PM  
If you grew balls and made your intentions known from the start, you wouldn't wind up in the "friendzone."
 
2012-11-27 09:23:13 PM  

coco ebert: RoyBatty: Please don't greenlight Hugo Schwyzer links.

The guy tried to kill his girlfriend.
As a professor, the guy took a group of students on a weekend trip and slept with four of the girls.
As a professor, the guy regularly slept with his students.
He repeatedly had sex with a woman, and helped her deceive her husband into believing it was his when there was a very good chance it was Hugo's kid. He has tried to justify this continuing and ongoing deception by saying he wasn't ready to be a father.

That guy is a sociopath.

I'm no expert on this guy, but hasn't he owned up to those things and explored them in his work?


Thereby profiting from them again while publicly embarrassing everybody else involved?
 
2012-11-27 09:23:39 PM  

Thisbymaster: Friendzone isn't a friendship, it is master and slave. That sort of relationship is destructive to the slave while the woman couldn't care less and will continue to abuse the slave because they see nothing wrong with it. It is best to get your feelings out in the open and be done with it. It forces you to stop lying to yourself, to face the reality that you can't earn attraction no matter what you do.


Sorry to hear that your female friends are so terrible to you.

Or that you have such a low opinion of women.

Whichever. Sorry to hear it.
 
2012-11-27 09:23:56 PM  

Ishkur: And they must be lascivious, nasty, filthy little cum dumpsters willing to deep throat a full load or no guy will pay any attention to them.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-27 09:24:28 PM  

Ishkur:
Online porn has effectively desensitized teenagers from understanding what true intimacy really is. It has made teenage girls more experimentative at a time when they probably shouldn't be and it has made boys a lot more misogynistic and demanding.


That's a nice, juicy intelligent post you have there, with the above being my personal favorite. You really hit the nail on the head for behavior I've seen. Welcome to my favorites list. :)
 
2012-11-27 09:24:38 PM  

harrydorcas: Well, you can't help it because what you see in the media is that most rich and successful men prefer farking various women than one. That's why marriage can only be applied if a person is more ugly, broke, or dysfunctional than usual.


Fixed that for ya. And I'm not judging, it's just a fact that most people get married because they figure they can't do any better and might as well anchor down whatever piece of ass they're with at the time. This is also why the divorce rate it so high - one of the partners in the marriage changes status, either loses weight, gets fake boobs, gets a better-paying job, etc. and then realizes they can "do better."

There are always the exceptions though, the two mature, well-adjusted adults who marry for the right reasons and realize that it's a lifelong job and are prepared to see it through.
 
2012-11-27 09:27:36 PM  

wedun: CygnusDarius: AverageAmericanGuy: What a dickish thing to do. You're willing to throw away a friendship because of your own selfishness?

It hurts, it reaaaaally hurts, did this only twice, but burning bridges -while sad and horrifying as it is- is the only way out. The last friendzone festered the friendship.

what? Hello no. Your an adult, not a petulant child. You don't throw a tantrum because you didn't get what you wanted.


Throwing a tantrum would be saying things about her in her back, and act like a complete dick infront of her. My way is taking the god-damned high road. She doesn't want you, and no one likes to be treated like a second-grade person. You cut the problem in the bud, she doesn't see you again, you get self-respect, everyone's a winner.
 
2012-11-27 09:28:13 PM  
One piece of advice I wish I knew in my 20s - the thing that gets you into one girl's pants will stick you in the "friend zone" with another.
 
2012-11-27 09:28:53 PM  

bleeding_heart_fascist: [www.manipudating.com image 580x307]
Link


This is by far the most import work ever published on the internet. Just because it is funny does not make it any less true.
 
2012-11-27 09:29:02 PM  
everythingfunny.org
 
2012-11-27 09:29:33 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: I wouldn't last long in a relationship if the sex wasn't casual.


I'd quit my job if it wasn't.
 
2012-11-27 09:29:33 PM  

hundreddollarman: One piece of advice I wish I knew in my 20s - the thing that gets you into one girl's pants will stick you in the "friend zone" with another.


How would ruphees ever get you in the friend zone??
 
2012-11-27 09:29:34 PM  
Sex doesn't interest me like it did when I was in college. In fact, casual sex has never interested me. I need that mental stimulation along with the physical. Getting laid is not a challenge, it's finding someone worth wanting to lay. I can go out and get laid fairly easy, but it's just not worth the energy and time. I'd rather do other, more meaningful, things.
 
2012-11-27 09:30:06 PM  

taurusowner: CygnusDarius: Outcome one.

Guy: Sorry, but the relationship changed the moment I felt something for you. I can't really accept your friendship because of it. Good day *walk away*

This is what I've been doing. I use to get friendzoned HARD pretty often. You know how in 90's sitcoms like Family Matters, Step by Step, etc there would always be stories about the douchebag alpha male trying to hit on the girl but in the end the nerdy genuine sweet guy would win her heart? Yeah, I grew up believing all that. So it's not even that I didn't just wanna get laid (of course I did) it's that I literally thought that what girls really wanted was that sweet genuine guy to treat them like a person. I spent years believing this, even seeing zero results, I just kept believing it.
The last year or so, since I got back from my last deployment, has really been an eye opening time for me. I've had a lot more success with women and it's because I stopped letting myself get walked over. I do exactly what you say. I start flirting with a girl and so forth. But the minute she gives me a "I just want to be friends"/"I'm actually talking to another guy right now..." speech, I truthfully explain to her that I cannot be friends with girls. I end up liking them too much and it ends badly anyways. Might as well end it now. Most of them are shocked that I didn't just accept their "be my friend I can ask for favors" suggestion. But a small portion have actually texted me back maybe a week later and reconsidered, and now are considering dating/hooking up. And for the majority that don't and I never see again, we're both better off.

The problem with friendzoning is just as much the guys as the girls. Guys let it happen because we're so desperate to just be around that hot girl in class/work/etc. They know it, and use it to their advantage. If guys would just man up and lay their cards down "date me or don't be part of my life" I think there would be a lot more healthy relationships. But it takes ...


Bingo.

Fell for that exact same shiat growing up. Got abused for it as well.

Of course, I didn't get much play one way or the other. Just not good looking enough for women to want to fark. Now I'm married, and my wife constantly claims otherwise, but she's got no supporting evidence. I always tell her that she's just giving me the "Mom's Opinion." Never trust the opinion of a female that is emotionally invested - her perception is skewed.

Same goes for males as well, but that's usually reserved for things like cars and boats and secretaries.
 
2012-11-27 09:30:11 PM  

BuckTurgidson: [everythingfunny.org image 540x450]


If this is true, it is a small minority and I applaud and approve of that :').
 
2012-11-27 09:30:23 PM  
I'd much rather have a meaningful relationship instead of casual sex.

That said, if casual sex comes around, I'm sure as hell not going to turn it down.
 
2012-11-27 09:30:32 PM  

Gawdzila: Sometimes we DO just want to slut around, and there's nothing wrong with that.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-27 09:30:53 PM  

CygnusDarius: wedun: CygnusDarius: AverageAmericanGuy: What a dickish thing to do. You're willing to throw away a friendship because of your own selfishness?

It hurts, it reaaaaally hurts, did this only twice, but burning bridges -while sad and horrifying as it is- is the only way out. The last friendzone festered the friendship.

what? Hello no. Your an adult, not a petulant child. You don't throw a tantrum because you didn't get what you wanted.

Throwing a tantrum would be saying things about her in her back, and act like a complete dick infront of her. My way is taking the god-damned high road. She doesn't want you, and no one likes to be treated like a second-grade person. You cut the problem in the bud, she doesn't see you again, you get self-respect, everyone's a winner.


This. As someone rightly mentioned up-thread, the friendzone is more than just his/her disinterest in you; it's someone who uses leverages their position to use the other person.
 
2012-11-27 09:31:02 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: I wouldn't last long in a relationship if the sex wasn't casual.


Is it still "casual sex" if I'm wearing a Chippendale's collar, or would that be "formal sex?"
 
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