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(Guardian)   You Yanks and your fiscal cliff, always thinking you're so big and all. Well, take a look at our European debt crisis   (guardian.co.uk) divider line 44
    More: Scary, European debt crisis, cliffs  
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2168 clicks; posted to Business » on 27 Nov 2012 at 3:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-27 02:48:19 PM
Meh, we're all farked. We'll get over this too.
 
2012-11-27 03:04:50 PM
Let's just all agree that on January 1st nobody owes anybody anything and let's move on from there.
 
2012-11-27 03:34:32 PM

Lando Lincoln: Let's just all agree that on January 1st nobody owes anybody anything and let's move on from there.


Someone should run on a platform of general cancellation of debts. That would be hilarious.
 
2012-11-27 03:35:09 PM

Lando Lincoln: Let's just all agree that on January 1st nobody owes anybody anything and let's move on from there.


She, as long as I don't have any debts, too.
 
2012-11-27 04:06:47 PM
Great - a debt-crisis dick-waving contest!

I miss the cold war.
 
2012-11-27 04:10:51 PM
G'day Mate!
 
2012-11-27 04:13:47 PM
"I think it's certainly apparent by now that one of the things I enjoy in life is excess... I like things that are excessive. I like excessive behavior, excessive language, excessive violence... it's fun. It's interesting. It's exciting. I like it when nature is excessive. That's why I like natural disasters. All these natural disasters that've been going on, I farking love 'em. I can't get enough of them. Ah, when nature's going crazy, throwing things around, scaring people and destroying property, I'm a happy farking guy. I'm a happy farking guy. I look at it this way... For centuries now, man has done everything he can to destroy, defile, and interfere with nature: clear-cutting forests, strip-mining mountains, poisoning the atmosphere, over-fishing the oceans, polluting the rivers and lakes, destroying wetlands and aquifers... so when nature strikes back, and smacks me in the head and kicks me in the nuts, I enjoy that. I have absolutely no sympathy for human beings whatsoever. None. And no matter what kind of problem humans are facing, whether it's natural or man-made, I always hope it gets worse. Don't you? Don't you? Don't you have a part of you, a part of you that secretly hopes everything gets worse? When you see a big fire on TV... don't you hope it spreads? Don't you hope it gets completely out of control and burns down six counties?"


/miss ya Carlin
 
2012-11-27 04:18:56 PM
Yeah, but angry, old, white southerners know that only ours matters.
 
2012-11-27 04:28:18 PM

oldfarthenry: Great - a debt-crisis dick-waving contest!

I miss the cold war.


The "fiscal cliff" is kind of an anti-debt crisis -- economists are afraid that anti-debt measures (tax hikes + spending cuts) will work too effectively. Just look at all the proposed solutions: both sides are responding to the fear of tax hikes + spending cuts by proposing their own tax hikes and/or spending cuts.

This is the most retarded crisis ever.
 
2012-11-27 04:29:17 PM
Pay up, you rich farks.
 
2012-11-27 04:30:58 PM

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Pay up, you rich farks.


Or jump. That works
 
2012-11-27 04:42:34 PM

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Pay up, you rich farks.


Even IF you could confiscate all their money, it would amount to about 2 weeks worth of the massive spending.
 
2012-11-27 04:49:53 PM

Arkanaut: oldfarthenry: Great - a debt-crisis dick-waving contest!

I miss the cold war.

The "fiscal cliff" is kind of an anti-debt crisis -- economists are afraid that anti-debt measures (tax hikes + spending cuts) will work too effectively. Just look at all the proposed solutions: both sides are responding to the fear of tax hikes + spending cuts by proposing their own tax hikes and/or spending cuts.

This is the most retarded crisis ever.


The people who are really freaking out about this are the Republicans. . .who are beholden to their Lord and Master Grover Norquist to never, ever raise taxes, no matter what. . .and the Media, who want a crisis that can be good for ratings.

Personally, I say we jump right off the cliff. Spread eagle and no parachute. Let taxes go up, let spending get cut.

Yeah, the spending cuts will hurt, but in the end I realize the county needs it, and that tax "hike" is just setting taxes back to where they were about a decade ago, before the massive tax cuts that cause much of our deficit in the first place.

Of course, if we go off the "cliff" and the economy improves, it really shows how ridiculous trickle down economics is.
 
2012-11-27 04:54:43 PM
This is the Internet, I need stacks if dollars next to semis to illustrate how large the debt is.
 
2012-11-27 04:58:25 PM

Spare Me: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Pay up, you rich farks.

Even IF you could confiscate all their money, it would amount to about 2 weeks worth of the massive spending.


Can you paint me a picture of what spending would look like if the total confiscation of wealth was the only funding mechanism?
 
2012-11-27 05:02:35 PM

Silverstaff: Personally, I say we jump right off the cliff. Spread eagle and no parachute. Let taxes go up, let spending get cut.


No, we could do the action-movie thing where we jump off and scare everybody, but then five seconds later the camera cuts to the side of the cliff and we're actually hanging on by our nails.

In real life what I mean is that the Democrats should stonewall until Jan 1st. Then the tax rates reset to Clinton-era rates, capital gains goes back up to 20%, and then they can hammer out a bipartisan "tax cut" that pushes certain taxes (e.g. for wages below $400,000) back down to Bush-era rates, as well as create new "jobs programs" for defense contractors (who would have been directly targeted by the spending cuts). Republicans can claim they're not responsible for breaking the no-tax-hikes pledge by blaming the Dems, and everybody can claim they're doing something for their constituents. Meanwhile the impact on the economy should be minimal.
 
2012-11-27 05:12:47 PM

Spare Me: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Pay up, you rich farks.

Even IF you could confiscate all their money, it would amount to about 2 weeks worth of the massive spending.


I'm big on efficiency so rather than tell us all the shiat you don't know could you just alert us when you DO understand something?
 
2012-11-27 05:15:24 PM

stuhayes2010: This is the Internet, I need stacks if dollars next to semis to illustrate how large the debt is.


I did the math on this once. I think if you used 100 dollar bills and covered a football field, the stack would be about six hundred feet high.

I could be wrong though. Too lazy to do the math again.
 
2012-11-27 05:21:19 PM

Arkanaut: Silverstaff: Personally, I say we jump right off the cliff. Spread eagle and no parachute. Let taxes go up, let spending get cut.

No, we could do the action-movie thing where we jump off and scare everybody, but then five seconds later the camera cuts to the side of the cliff and we're actually hanging on by our nails.

In real life what I mean is that the Democrats should stonewall until Jan 1st. Then the tax rates reset to Clinton-era rates, capital gains goes back up to 20%, and then they can hammer out a bipartisan "tax cut" that pushes certain taxes (e.g. for wages below $400,000) back down to Bush-era rates, as well as create new "jobs programs" for defense contractors (who would have been directly targeted by the spending cuts). Republicans can claim they're not responsible for breaking the no-tax-hikes pledge by blaming the Dems, and everybody can claim they're doing something for their constituents. Meanwhile the impact on the economy should be minimal.


September and October 2013 will be a blast. As will, most likely, April 2014.
 
2012-11-27 05:38:34 PM
The IMF has warned the US not to choose austerity as it would lead to a world wide Depression.
 
2012-11-27 05:42:49 PM

mcreadyblue: The IMF has warned the US not to choose austerity as it would lead to a world wide Depression.


Maybe we could hold the world economy hostage.

"PAY UP OR WE'LL GO THE AUSTERITY ROUTE! I SWEAR, WE'LL DO IT!"
 
2012-11-27 05:43:51 PM

djkutch: Lando Lincoln: Let's just all agree that on January 1st nobody owes anybody anything and let's move on from there.

Someone should run on a platform of general cancellation of debts. That would be hilarious.


I would love to see a "christian political call for a Jubilee. Never gonna happen of course...
 
2012-11-27 05:47:19 PM
That's what you get for following our lead and changing to a conservative economic platform.
 
2012-11-27 06:02:33 PM
Austerity sure has worked wonders for Europe, amiright?
 
2012-11-27 06:09:47 PM

zerkalo: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Pay up, you rich farks.

Or jump. That works


Raise the estate taxes first.
 
2012-11-27 06:19:18 PM
Can we all just admit that most of "economics" is at best guess work with some horribly flawed base assumptions? Even the concept of lower supply or greater demand = higher prices isn't true. Any "science" that starts with the assumption that humans are "rational utility maximizers" isn't going to work out simply because humans are almost never rational. Your emotions color your perceptions and thoughts in such a way that it's almost impossible to act as most mainstream (mainly neoclassical) economists would describe.
 
2012-11-27 06:33:45 PM

AngryDragon: zerkalo: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Pay up, you rich farks.

Or jump. That works

Raise the estate taxes first.

GIMME!!!

/ftfyg
 
2012-11-27 06:38:50 PM

stuhayes2010: This is the Internet, I need stacks if dollars next to semis to illustrate how large the debt is.


yeah, this or it's not real. also beside famous buildings is ok
 
2012-11-27 06:42:43 PM

Communist_Manifesto: Can we all just admit that most of "economics" is at best guess work with some horribly flawed base assumptions? Even the concept of lower supply or greater demand = higher prices isn't true. Any "science" that starts with the assumption that humans are "rational utility maximizers" isn't going to work out simply because humans are almost never rational. Your emotions color your perceptions and thoughts in such a way that it's almost impossible to act as most mainstream (mainly neoclassical) economists would describe.


Which is why the first time a psychologist took a look at economics he invented prospect theory and won the Nobel prize in economics!
 
2012-11-27 06:43:57 PM

Lando Lincoln: stuhayes2010: This is the Internet, I need stacks if dollars next to semis to illustrate how large the debt is.

I did the math on this once. I think if you used 100 dollar bills and covered a football field, the stack would be about six hundred feet high.

I could be wrong though. Too lazy to do the math again.


Wow. I'd say you're way off.

Football field is 57,600sq ft (360*160), sq ft of dollar bill is about .11 sq ft, 232 bills to an inch = 57,600/.11*232*12 inches to foot * 600 ft * $100 per bill = about $87 trillion.

Well, maybe not that far off, depending on what debt number you are using.
 
2012-11-27 06:46:42 PM

Silverstaff: Arkanaut: oldfarthenry: Great - a debt-crisis dick-waving contest!

I miss the cold war.

The "fiscal cliff" is kind of an anti-debt crisis -- economists are afraid that anti-debt measures (tax hikes + spending cuts) will work too effectively. Just look at all the proposed solutions: both sides are responding to the fear of tax hikes + spending cuts by proposing their own tax hikes and/or spending cuts.

This is the most retarded crisis ever.

The people who are really freaking out about this are the Republicans. . .who are beholden to their Lord and Master Grover Norquist to never, ever raise taxes, no matter what. . .and the Media, who want a crisis that can be good for ratings.

Personally, I say we jump right off the cliff. Spread eagle and no parachute. Let taxes go up, let spending get cut.

Yeah, the spending cuts will hurt, but in the end I realize the county needs it, and that tax "hike" is just setting taxes back to where they were about a decade ago, before the massive tax cuts that cause much of our deficit in the first place.

Of course, if we go off the "cliff" and the economy improves, it really shows how ridiculous trickle down economics is.


It would also show how ridiculous keynesian economics is, but I agree with you that we should just go off the cliff. We'll never have a better opportunity than now to raise taxes to where they ought to be, and to take a big chunk out of spending.
 
2012-11-27 06:47:31 PM

Lando Lincoln: Let's just all agree that on January 1st nobody owes anybody anything and let's move on from there.


would that include social security, medicare, as well as pension obligations?
 
2012-11-27 06:54:17 PM

Lando Lincoln: Let's just all agree that on January 1st nobody owes anybody anything and let's move on from there.


Jubilee?

/ in the Old-Testament meaning
 
2012-11-27 07:38:15 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: Lando Lincoln: Let's just all agree that on January 1st nobody owes anybody anything and let's move on from there.

would that include social security, medicare, as well as pension obligations?


Or the money I do have saved up and in my retirement? I'm not sure, but I would like to be able to get that back someday.
 
2012-11-27 07:42:43 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: Austerity sure has worked wonders for Europe, amiright?


I'm really curious, do you think there's some magic pot of money out there that, if you could find it and wrest it from the leprechauns, would be able to keep the musical chair game going?
 
2012-11-27 08:10:20 PM

Lando Lincoln: stuhayes2010: This is the Internet, I need stacks if dollars next to semis to illustrate how large the debt is.

I did the math on this once. I think if you used 100 dollar bills and covered a football field, the stack would be about six hundred feet high.

I could be wrong though. Too lazy to do the math again.


Should have saved it to the cloud, where old men could shout at it.
 
2012-11-27 08:17:53 PM

HeadLever: Debeo Summa Credo: Lando Lincoln: Let's just all agree that on January 1st nobody owes anybody anything and let's move on from there.

would that include social security, medicare, as well as pension obligations?

Or the money I do have saved up and in my retirement? I'm not sure, but I would like to be able to get that back someday.


Depends. Any that is in bond funds would be gone. Of course, if we eliminated all debt equity prices would be destroyed in the ensuing economic carnage as well most likely, so that part of your porfolio would be farked too. I hate to say it, but gold would be a good investment in the 'all debt goes away' scenario.
 
2012-11-27 08:20:28 PM

jjorsett: TofuTheAlmighty: Austerity sure has worked wonders for Europe, amiright?

I'm really curious, do you think there's some magic pot of money out there that, if you could find it and wrest it from the leprechauns, would be able to keep the musical chair game going?


If those greedy leprechaun 1%ers would only pay their 'fair share' everything would be perfect.
 
2012-11-27 08:27:15 PM
Someone at work asked me if I would move to Europe if I could, and I said I wouldn't now because they're more farked than the U.S. The PIIGS are ruining the Eurozone economy, I doubt few companies in countries over there are looking to hire expats over Europeans.

I really wonder if the stronger European countries would be better off to just tell Greece, Spain, etc to just fark off and save your own economies.
 
2012-11-27 09:27:55 PM

jjorsett: TofuTheAlmighty: Austerity sure has worked wonders for Europe, amiright?

I'm really curious, do you think there's some magic pot of money out there that, if you could find it and wrest it from the leprechauns, would be able to keep the musical chair game going?


It's right next to the giant wasted pile of money that conservatives keep telling us about.

They can't show us this giant wasted pile of money, but they know it's in there. We just have to keep looking.
 
2012-11-27 09:47:36 PM
Looking to Europe is the exact reason we need to get spending under control. We cannot keep racking debt upon debt and chug our way towards $20,000,000,000,000.

I cannot afford $55,000+ per person to get back to zero--can you?

Common-sense cuts plus common-sense tax increases are needed to meet in the middle, in essence pissing everyone off. If we're all annoyed, then it must be the right plan.
 
2012-11-27 11:33:29 PM
So how will this get blamed on Obama? You know that somehow it will.
 
2012-11-28 03:07:41 AM
It's even scarier when you know that their figures and projections are always wrong, and that reality is always worse than they say it is.
 
2012-11-28 07:11:47 AM
Man, I am so not going to buy a lottery ticket today. I don't want to win all that money and become one of the targeted, hated 1%.
 
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