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(24/7 Wall Street)   The Seattle Mariners finally win a title - Most Abandoned Team of the Decade, followed closely by 3 more MLB teams   (247wallst.com) divider line 66
    More: Fail, MLB teams, Mariners, Major League Baseball, American Airlines, Minute Maid Park, major league sports, Jeff Bagwell, Diamondbacks  
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2487 clicks; posted to Sports » on 27 Nov 2012 at 3:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-27 12:36:00 PM
Well, going from 116 wins in a relatively new park to consistently below .500 after the new-park smell has worn off has a way of doing that.
 
2012-11-27 12:37:42 PM

IAmRight: Well, going from 116 wins in a relatively new park to consistently below .500 after the new-park smell has worn off has a way of doing that.


That, and an ownership that obviously couldn't give a shiat about putting a good team on the field.
 
2012-11-27 12:44:39 PM

seumasokelly: IAmRight: Well, going from 116 wins in a relatively new park to consistently below .500 after the new-park smell has worn off has a way of doing that.

That, and an ownership that obviously couldn't give a shiat about putting a good team on the field.


The Cubs seem to be able to do that very well....
 
2012-11-27 12:48:23 PM
The Mets - 22% decrease. They note the stadium went from 57K in Shea to 45K in Citi. that's a 21% decrease in capacity. I think the loss in revenue is more telling than the fact that less people are showing up to a smaller stadium.
 
2012-11-27 02:54:30 PM
The Blue Jays aren't on this list simply because their attendance tanked before 2002.
 
2012-11-27 03:05:32 PM
fromthepoint.com

Great player but not so good as a GM from what I hear.
 
2012-11-27 03:08:08 PM
I'm sorry I can't talk about the article because that website was absolutely terrible.
 
2012-11-27 03:12:30 PM

Tr0mBoNe: The Blue Jays aren't on this list simply because their attendance tanked before 2002.


Exactly, it's just because of the arbitrary year that you get certain teams. Make it a 5-year span and I'm gonna guess the Mariners don't lose as much, simply because they didn't start off as high in that situation.
 
2012-11-27 03:13:48 PM
Promotion and relegation!
 
2012-11-27 03:13:53 PM
Since both the Bucks and Blue Jackets are both rumored furture tennants for the Sprint center in KC I'm ok with them not drawing fans in their cities
 
2012-11-27 03:15:16 PM

Foxxinnia: I'm sorry I can't talk about the article because that website was absolutely terrible.


13 worst attendence declines in the past decade:

13) Miami Dolphins -17.1%
12) Milwaukee Bucks -19%
11) Washington Wizards -19.1%
10) Columbus Blue Jackets -19.2%
9) Baltimore Orioles -19.7%
8) New York Mets -22%
7) Detroit Pistons -22.3%
6) Oakland A's -22.6%
5) Dallas Stars -23.2%
4) Arizona Diamondbacks -32%
3) Houston Astros -36.1%
2) Cleveland Indians -38.7%
1) Seattle Mariners -51.4%
 
2012-11-27 03:17:21 PM

Gunny Highway: Great player but not so good as a GM from what I hear.


In fairness, if you took the random numbers and based it on 2003-04 numbers instead of 2001-02 numbers, they improved 14,000+ per game.

/realistically you could just put every NHL team on this list right now at 100% abandonment
 
2012-11-27 03:17:37 PM
People actually come here from places like New York to see their team play.

And I felt kinda bad for all the Japanese tour groups that showed up in August and September.

OTOH, tickets are cheap and plentiful, which is since I live 15 minutes from Safeco.
 
2012-11-27 03:19:01 PM

IAmRight: Tr0mBoNe: The Blue Jays aren't on this list simply because their attendance tanked before 2002.

Exactly, it's just because of the arbitrary year that you get certain teams. Make it a 5-year span and I'm gonna guess the Mariners don't lose as much, simply because they didn't start off as high in that situation.


They did say that the M's capacity percentage was the lowest in baseball last season. They're hurting as far as attendence goes no matter how you look at it. That doesn't, unfortunately, hit them so much in the pocketbook. No incentive for this ownership group to do anything different. They're still making money, so they'll keep being shiatty.
 
2012-11-27 03:19:38 PM

Kuta: Promotion and relegation!


How do you do a player draft in that system? Is every decent rookie forced into the lower league? Or are lower league teams just farked out of getting elite young talent?
 
2012-11-27 03:19:45 PM

Tr0mBoNe: The Blue Jays aren't on this list simply because their attendance tanked before 2002.


I finally made my way to Roger's this year. Can't wait for next year.

/The Toronto Marlins will be pretty good
 
2012-11-27 03:20:01 PM

IAmRight: Well, going from 116 wins in a relatively new park to consistently below .500 after the new-park smell has worn off has a way of doing that.


Exactly. Cleveland is in a similar spot - in 2001, they made the playoffs for the 6th time in 7 seasons. Since then, they've made the playoffs once and have only been over .500 twice (and once more at exactly .500). Of course their attendance dropped in that span.
 
2012-11-27 03:22:38 PM

Rex_Banner: IAmRight: Well, going from 116 wins in a relatively new park to consistently below .500 after the new-park smell has worn off has a way of doing that.

Exactly. Cleveland is in a similar spot - in 2001, they made the playoffs for the 6th time in 7 seasons. Since then, they've made the playoffs once and have only been over .500 twice (and once more at exactly .500). Of course their attendance dropped in that span.


Basically this is a list of "here are teams that were good and/or got a new stadium 10 years ago and now suck."
 
2012-11-27 03:22:54 PM

seumasokelly: Foxxinnia: I'm sorry I can't talk about the article because that website was absolutely terrible.

13 worst attendence declines in the past decade:

13) Miami Dolphins -17.1%
12) Milwaukee Bucks -19%
11) Washington Wizards -19.1%
10) Columbus Blue Jackets -19.2%
9) Baltimore Orioles -19.7%
8) New York Mets -22%
7) Detroit Pistons -22.3%
6) Oakland A's -22.6%
5) Dallas Stars -23.2%
4) Arizona Diamondbacks -32%
3) Houston Astros -36.1%
2) Cleveland Indians -38.7%
1) Seattle Mariners -51.4%


Thank you. I couldn't even load the thing.
 
2012-11-27 03:23:30 PM
Expect Nintendo to sell once they hemorrhage more money because of their latest console failure
 
2012-11-27 03:25:46 PM

thisiszombocom: Expect Nintendo to sell once they hemorrhage more money because of their latest console failure


that oddly works here.
 
2012-11-27 03:28:51 PM

thisiszombocom: Expect Nintendo to sell once they hemorrhage more money because of their latest console failure


Why would you sell an entity that is making you money?
 
2012-11-27 03:29:31 PM
And people keep telling me MLB is doing better than ever. But I see a lot of MLB teams on these lists. What gives? As far as I can tell people don't watch or care about MLB.
 
2012-11-27 03:37:18 PM

theurge14: And people keep telling me MLB is doing better than ever. But I see a lot of MLB teams on these lists. What gives? As far as I can tell people don't watch or care about MLB.


Watch? Maybe. But the stadium experience is expensive and inconvenient. Now that I have a DVR, I can watch games at my own home, at my own convenience.
 
2012-11-27 03:42:44 PM

theurge14: And people keep telling me MLB is doing better than ever. But I see a lot of MLB teams on these lists. What gives? As far as I can tell people don't watch or care about MLB.


You're right. An incomplete listing of total attendance trends independent of absolute values, featuring no data on franchise-by-franchise profitability, along with a lack of information on overall television/radio/internet consumption, merchandise sales, and other sources of revenue, tells the entire story.
 
2012-11-27 03:43:10 PM

seumasokelly: thisiszombocom: Expect Nintendo to sell once they hemorrhage more money because of their latest console failure

Why would you sell an entity that is making you money?


If you have a $1000 dollar debt coming due and you own an object that is worth $1200 but earns you $100 a year, what do you do to stay solvent?
 
2012-11-27 03:46:12 PM
2. Cleveland Indians
> 10-yr. attendance decline: -38.7%
> 2002 W-L record: 74-88 (finished 3rd in AL Central)
> 2012 W-L record: 68-94 (finished 4th in AL Central)


yeah, way to pick the end of the long line of selling out every game as the starting point

2002 - 2,616,940
2003 - 1,730,002
2012 - 1,603,596

so a 1 year drop of 33.9% then over 9 years 7.3% and over those 9 years, only one year, 2010 with 1,391,644 was lower than either of the bookends 

/frustrated indians fan
 
2012-11-27 03:48:08 PM

Saiga410: seumasokelly: thisiszombocom: Expect Nintendo to sell once they hemorrhage more money because of their latest console failure

Why would you sell an entity that is making you money?

If you have a $1000 dollar debt coming due and you own an object that is worth $1200 but earns you $100 a year, what do you do to stay solvent?


Run away from math.
 
2012-11-27 03:49:41 PM

R.A.Danny: seumasokelly: IAmRight: Well, going from 116 wins in a relatively new park to consistently below .500 after the new-park smell has worn off has a way of doing that.

That, and an ownership that obviously couldn't give a shiat about putting a good team on the field.

The Cubs seem to be able to do that very well....


cubs fans are idiots.
 
2012-11-27 03:52:57 PM

thisiszombocom: Expect Nintendo to sell once they hemorrhage more money because of their latest console failure


Not to threadjack, but I'm curious: by what measure is the Wii U a failure at this point?
 
2012-11-27 03:55:00 PM
Thank you, writer of the article, for highlighting one of the biggest mysteries in baseball... why there's never been so much as a sniff of a rumor that Chuck Armstrong and Howard Lincoln are on the hot seat. They're both jokes. These are the men that signed Bill Bavasi as a general manager. I wouldn't like it, but I'd understand if they were going the cubs route - lose but who cares as long as you are making money. That would suck. But I can at least understand letting the winning slide if you are raking it in at the gate. But losing while attendance declines year after year after year? I do NOT understand the point of that. I do NOT understand how after this long that anyone could see this as anything but a complete and utter failure by upper management. So what will they do about it? I predict cute commercials, a Jay Buhner night, and some kind of think tank employed to figure out how to squeak out just one more Ken Griffey Jr. bobblehead.
 
2012-11-27 03:56:31 PM

seumasokelly: thisiszombocom: Expect Nintendo to sell once they hemorrhage more money because of their latest console failure

Why would you sell an entity that is making you money?


Because only newbs, grandmas, and kids like it. Or as they are known in marketing circles, 98% of the population.

Good bye Bucks!! I never watched you, and we will get along just fine without you.
 
2012-11-27 04:03:49 PM

theurge14: And people keep telling me MLB is doing better than ever. But I see a lot of MLB teams on these lists. What gives? As far as I can tell people don't watch or care about MLB.


What gives is the Dodgers and Yankees and Red Sox could play in front of empty ballparks and still rake it in from their local TV deals
 
2012-11-27 04:07:45 PM
Not surprisingly, the Rockies are not on this list. *sigh* We be like Cubs fan, not as fatally jaded, but we still show up no matter how awful the product.
 
2012-11-27 04:08:15 PM

R.A.Danny: seumasokelly: IAmRight: Well, going from 116 wins in a relatively new park to consistently below .500 after the new-park smell has worn off has a way of doing that.

That, and an ownership that obviously couldn't give a shiat about putting a good team on the field.

The Cubs seem to be able to do that very well....


Cubs fans are the worst sports fans on the planet.
 
2012-11-27 04:09:54 PM
The A's problem is their stadium, full stop. The Coliseum is a horrible place to watch a baseball game. If you're sitting behind the dugouts with that big foul space, it's like the game is taking place a mile away. They want to build a 32,000 seat stadium in San Jose, but per the Wikipedia article on it:

The Giants have repeatedly refused to cede their territorial rights to the San Jose area (which had been yielded by the A's in the early 1990s when the Giants had been in danger of relocating to Tampa Bay, previously both teams had shared the South Bay)

F**k the Giants, MLB should do the vote of owners and override them.
 
2012-11-27 04:11:09 PM

Saiga410: seumasokelly: thisiszombocom: Expect Nintendo to sell once they hemorrhage more money because of their latest console failure

Why would you sell an entity that is making you money?

If you have a $1000 dollar debt coming due and you own an object that is worth $1200 but earns you $100 a year, what do you do to stay solvent?


Refinance. If you can borrow at an interest rate of less than 8.33% or less, you'll turn a profit.

/also, from what I've heard the Wii U is selling surprisingly well; the Wii just might not be dead yet
 
2012-11-27 04:11:14 PM
Sure, for the D-Backs pick the 2nd year after a World Series win as the starting point.
 
2012-11-27 04:12:01 PM

Super Chronic: less than 8.33% or less


yeah, well, y'all know what I meant there.
 
2012-11-27 04:14:01 PM

Now That's What I Call a Taco!: Kuta: Promotion and relegation!

How do you do a player draft in that system? Is every decent rookie forced into the lower league? Or are lower league teams just farked out of getting elite young talent?


Player draft? Pay top dollar and get top talent. The draft only exists to keep costs down by funneling college players through a rigid scheme.
 
2012-11-27 04:14:27 PM

Super Chronic: /also, from what I've heard the Wii U is selling surprisingly well; the Wii just might not be dead yet


They've sold 400,000 units, with rollout just now happening in Europe and the launch date in Japan about a week away. And we're not done with the holiday season.

I'm genuinely curious if there's something besides retarded fanboyism that people are basing their "Wii U is a horrible failure" pronouncements on.
 
2012-11-27 04:15:06 PM
Here is the best part....
They raised season ticket prices going into the offseason.
The party this town is gonna throw when Chuck and Howie are gone is gonna be two to three times bigger than we would throw had we just won the world series
 
2012-11-27 04:20:18 PM
The Mariners have two AAA teams in Washington State, one in Seattle and another in Tacoma. Convenient, that
 
2012-11-27 04:44:45 PM

zerkalo: The Mariners have two AAA teams in Washington State, one in Seattle and another in Tacoma. Convenient, that


That's nothing, New York has 4 before the majors

A-Brooklyn
AA- Binghamton
AAA-Buffalo
AAAA-Queens
 
2012-11-27 05:11:03 PM
Cripplingly high Ticket Prices + Team totally Sucks = I don't want to pay money to watch you play.

Make it so an average non-farking-Millionaire can afford to go to your games and win something (or at least show fans that you care more about winning something instead of their money) and I'll go to your games again.

Paying over a hundred bucks for myself and my family and/or friends, drive around forever looking for parking, pay too much to park on some jerk's front lawn, pay ludicrous prices for terrible food and flavorless, watered down beer and sodas, fight to take a piss in some disgusting, urine-soaked shiathole men's room, and then on top of all of that your team gets their asses kicked will make you decide that the whole hassle isn't worth it.
 
2012-11-27 05:23:07 PM

JasonThomasX: Cripplingly high Ticket Prices + Team totally Sucks = I don't want to pay money to watch you play.

Make it so an average non-farking-Millionaire can afford to go to your games and win something (or at least show fans that you care more about winning something instead of their money) and I'll go to your games again.

Paying over a hundred bucks for myself and my family and/or friends, drive around forever looking for parking, pay too much to park on some jerk's front lawn, pay ludicrous prices for terrible food and flavorless, watered down beer and sodas, fight to take a piss in some disgusting, urine-soaked shiathole men's room, and then on top of all of that your team gets their asses kicked will make you decide that the whole hassle isn't worth it.


I only paid over 30 bucks a seat once at Safeco this year, and it wasn't much over 30
 
2012-11-27 05:26:35 PM

JasonThomasX: Cripplingly high Ticket Prices + Team totally Sucks = I don't want to pay money to watch you play.

Make it so an average non-farking-Millionaire can afford to go to your games and win something (or at least show fans that you care more about winning something instead of their money) and I'll go to your games again.

Paying over a hundred bucks for myself and my family and/or friends, drive around forever looking for parking, pay too much to park on some jerk's front lawn, pay ludicrous prices for terrible food and flavorless, watered down beer and sodas, fight to take a piss in some disgusting, urine-soaked shiathole men's room, and then on top of all of that your team gets their asses kicked will make you decide that the whole hassle isn't worth it.


Is your favorite team owned by a Selig? Mine was, it was bad.
 
2012-11-27 05:31:44 PM

Kuta: Now That's What I Call a Taco!: Kuta: Promotion and relegation!

How do you do a player draft in that system? Is every decent rookie forced into the lower league? Or are lower league teams just farked out of getting elite young talent?

Player draft? Pay top dollar and get top talent. The draft only exists to keep costs down by funneling college players through a rigid scheme.


Wouldn't work for baseball. Too big, too many players at too young an age. The reason it works in England is because they have the youth academies, which would have to be put in place here, which would take time, and oodles of money.
 
2012-11-27 05:36:01 PM
I still care about the Mariners, despite all the good reasons not to. *sigh *
 
2012-11-27 05:45:24 PM

Gunny Highway: [fromthepoint.com image 250x300]

Great player but not so good as a GM from what I hear.


It may be too early to tell. He hasn't even had a full season with stable ownership. Nieuwendyk options have been limited by the ownership mess. This isn't to say he has or hasn't done a good job with what he had to work with, but I thinks it's hard to render a final judgement at this point.
I'm pretty sure the decline in the Stars' attendance can also be traced back to the whole Hicks debacle. A slumping team with no relief in sight because there's no ownership to invest or make moves doesn't inspire a lot of enthusiasm. There still seems to be a sizable, loyal fan base around here (and surely my anecdotal experience is better than, you know, "numbers" or "facts") so I expect attendance will start to tick back up if they ever start playing again.
 
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