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(NYPost)   The Yankees and Andy Pettitte are close to a one-year deal in the $11 million range. Perks include a AARP membership and a lifetime supply of Metamucil   (nypost.com) divider line 57
    More: Spiffy, Andy Pettitte, Yankees, Hiroki Kuroda, Metamucil, Ivan Nova, Mariano Rivera, left-handed, CC Sabathia  
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167 clicks; posted to Sports » on 27 Nov 2012 at 2:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-27 02:16:27 PM  
I'm sure this'll win the division for them.
 
2012-11-27 02:18:57 PM  
So, that way Andy can afford the good PEDs again?
 
2012-11-27 02:30:56 PM  

LucklessWonder: So, that way Andy can afford the good PEDs again?


Yeah, forget the Metamucil, throw in some adderall and hgh.

/Yankees fan
 
2012-11-27 02:36:00 PM  
My life milestones, as measured by MLB players:

First player younger than me: Ivan Rodriguez
Player born the same day as me: Javy Lopez
Last player older than me: either Mariano Rivera or Jim Thome
First player nearly two years younger than me to be the subject of AARP/Metamucil jokes: Andy Pettitte

/goddamitsomuchgetoffmylawnihateyousubby
 
2012-11-27 02:40:01 PM  
Well, there goes the Blue Jays best chance of playoff baseball in 20 years.
 
2012-11-27 02:46:17 PM  
And a nose job
 
2012-11-27 03:04:12 PM  
he can still strike your ass out subby
 
2012-11-27 03:06:00 PM  

Super Chronic: My life milestones, as measured by MLB players:

First player younger than me: Ivan Rodriguez
Player born the same day as me: Javy Lopez
Last player older than me: either Mariano Rivera or Jim Thome
First player nearly two years younger than me to be the subject of AARP/Metamucil jokes: Andy Pettitte

/goddamitsomuchgetoffmylawnihateyousubby


I am dreading the day when I look at a ball player, think to myself "He's getting on in years", and then realize that the player is younger than me.
 
2012-11-27 03:06:55 PM  

Freakin Rican: he can still strike your ass out subby


Is subby Bryce Harper?
 
2012-11-27 03:13:30 PM  
Cashman is a terrible GM. The word came down from ownership to trim payroll, so he can't park an 18-wheeler full of cash in front of the top free agents' houses anymore. So what is his solution? A one year contract worth over ten million dollars to an over-the-hill pitcher with elbow issues . Also, they let Soriano go so that Mariano can have his farewell season with minimal NY sporting press pressure to go to an alternative if the Yanks slip in the standings. Loyalty is laudable, but Cashman will max out two 40+ year old pitchers, while taking less time to negotiate with their younger free agents. I don't think Swisher needs to be on the team, but he's a switch hitting, corner outfielding, homerun threat, with a high OBP and there aren't a ton of them available. He's not worth Jayson Werth money, Werth isn't worth the money Washington paid him, but there will be a team out there that will offer him that type of contract (Mets? Cubs?). The Yanks would be foolish to match that kind of an offer, and they'd look asinine in the process. You can't stress that you're goal is to trim payroll while signing Pettitte, Rivera, and outbidding for Swisher, while letting go of a younger closer like Soriano and ignoring the rest of the less expensive corner outfield market.

/Yankees fan
 
2012-11-27 03:26:42 PM  

cobby97: Cashman is a terrible GM. The word came down from ownership to trim payroll, so he can't park an 18-wheeler full of cash in front of the top free agents' houses anymore. So what is his solution? A one year contract worth over ten million dollars to an over-the-hill pitcher with elbow issues . Also, they let Soriano go so that Mariano can have his farewell season with minimal NY sporting press pressure to go to an alternative if the Yanks slip in the standings. Loyalty is laudable, but Cashman will max out two 40+ year old pitchers, while taking less time to negotiate with their younger free agents. I don't think Swisher needs to be on the team, but he's a switch hitting, corner outfielding, homerun threat, with a high OBP and there aren't a ton of them available. He's not worth Jayson Werth money, Werth isn't worth the money Washington paid him, but there will be a team out there that will offer him that type of contract (Mets? Cubs?). The Yanks would be foolish to match that kind of an offer, and they'd look asinine in the process. You can't stress that you're goal is to trim payroll while signing Pettitte, Rivera, and outbidding for Swisher, while letting go of a younger closer like Soriano and ignoring the rest of the less expensive corner outfield market.

/Yankees fan


Signing guys like Pettitte and Rivera to one year deals helps the 2013 team compete without hampering the 2014 budget. And Soriano turns 33 next month. He's not what I'd call a young closer.

/They won't outbid anyone for Swisher. He's going somewhere else
 
2012-11-27 03:31:52 PM  

Rex_Banner: cobby97: Cashman is a terrible GM. The word came down from ownership to trim payroll, so he can't park an 18-wheeler full of cash in front of the top free agents' houses anymore. So what is his solution? A one year contract worth over ten million dollars to an over-the-hill pitcher with elbow issues . Also, they let Soriano go so that Mariano can have his farewell season with minimal NY sporting press pressure to go to an alternative if the Yanks slip in the standings. Loyalty is laudable, but Cashman will max out two 40+ year old pitchers, while taking less time to negotiate with their younger free agents. I don't think Swisher needs to be on the team, but he's a switch hitting, corner outfielding, homerun threat, with a high OBP and there aren't a ton of them available. He's not worth Jayson Werth money, Werth isn't worth the money Washington paid him, but there will be a team out there that will offer him that type of contract (Mets? Cubs?). The Yanks would be foolish to match that kind of an offer, and they'd look asinine in the process. You can't stress that you're goal is to trim payroll while signing Pettitte, Rivera, and outbidding for Swisher, while letting go of a younger closer like Soriano and ignoring the rest of the less expensive corner outfield market.

/Yankees fan

Signing guys like Pettitte and Rivera to one year deals helps the 2013 team compete without hampering the 2014 budget. And Soriano turns 33 next month. He's not what I'd call a young closer.

/They won't outbid anyone for Swisher. He's going somewhere else


you think so? who will they get? well if ichiro stays but wouldnt we need someone else?
 
2012-11-27 03:41:51 PM  

Rex_Banner: Signing guys like Pettitte and Rivera to one year deals helps the 2013 team compete without hampering the 2014 budget. And Soriano turns 33 next month. He's not what I'd call a young closer.

/They won't outbid anyone for Swisher. He's going somewhere else


Swisher sealed his own fate with those asinine remarks about hurt feelings. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he ends up in Boston, then the Bleacher Creatures will really hate him.

As far as Pettitte goes, I don't care if he's a hundred as long as he gets the job done. Same with Mo. As far as switch hitters go, hi, Mark Teixiera, time to start earning your money.
 
2012-11-27 03:50:32 PM  

Freakin Rican: Rex_Banner: cobby97: Cashman is a terrible GM. The word came down from ownership to trim payroll, so he can't park an 18-wheeler full of cash in front of the top free agents' houses anymore. So what is his solution? A one year contract worth over ten million dollars to an over-the-hill pitcher with elbow issues . Also, they let Soriano go so that Mariano can have his farewell season with minimal NY sporting press pressure to go to an alternative if the Yanks slip in the standings. Loyalty is laudable, but Cashman will max out two 40+ year old pitchers, while taking less time to negotiate with their younger free agents. I don't think Swisher needs to be on the team, but he's a switch hitting, corner outfielding, homerun threat, with a high OBP and there aren't a ton of them available. He's not worth Jayson Werth money, Werth isn't worth the money Washington paid him, but there will be a team out there that will offer him that type of contract (Mets? Cubs?). The Yanks would be foolish to match that kind of an offer, and they'd look asinine in the process. You can't stress that you're goal is to trim payroll while signing Pettitte, Rivera, and outbidding for Swisher, while letting go of a younger closer like Soriano and ignoring the rest of the less expensive corner outfield market.

/Yankees fan

Signing guys like Pettitte and Rivera to one year deals helps the 2013 team compete without hampering the 2014 budget. And Soriano turns 33 next month. He's not what I'd call a young closer.

/They won't outbid anyone for Swisher. He's going somewhere else

you think so? who will they get? well if ichiro stays but wouldnt we need someone else?


The OF on opening day, barring injuries, will be Gardner-Granderson-Ichiro.

Granderson and Cano hit free agency after the 2013 season. There is no way that they keep those two guys, plus Swisher and get under the luxury tax limit in 2014. Well, unless one or more of them wants to give them a big time discount, but that's probably not happening. Cano is pretty much the priority, since he's easily the best and youngest player of the bunch. That leaves Swish in a rough spot because the Yankees will want to have flexibility to secure Robbie. They're not going to throw money towards Swish if it hurts their chances of getting Cano.
 
2012-11-27 03:57:50 PM  

Marisyana: As far as Pettitte goes, I don't care if he's a hundred as long as he gets the job done. Same with Mo. As far as switch hitters go, hi, Mark Teixiera, time to start earning your money.


Remember when Teixeira used to hit line drives? All the way back in 2009? Those were the days........
 
2012-11-27 04:20:53 PM  
Sweet. That's 1/6 of the Kansas City Royals player payroll.
 
2012-11-27 04:23:00 PM  

Rex_Banner: Freakin Rican: Rex_Banner: cobby97: Cashman is a terrible GM. The word came down from ownership to trim payroll, so he can't park an 18-wheeler full of cash in front of the top free agents' houses anymore. So what is his solution? A one year contract worth over ten million dollars to an over-the-hill pitcher with elbow issues . Also, they let Soriano go so that Mariano can have his farewell season with minimal NY sporting press pressure to go to an alternative if the Yanks slip in the standings. Loyalty is laudable, but Cashman will max out two 40+ year old pitchers, while taking less time to negotiate with their younger free agents. I don't think Swisher needs to be on the team, but he's a switch hitting, corner outfielding, homerun threat, with a high OBP and there aren't a ton of them available. He's not worth Jayson Werth money, Werth isn't worth the money Washington paid him, but there will be a team out there that will offer him that type of contract (Mets? Cubs?). The Yanks would be foolish to match that kind of an offer, and they'd look asinine in the process. You can't stress that you're goal is to trim payroll while signing Pettitte, Rivera, and outbidding for Swisher, while letting go of a younger closer like Soriano and ignoring the rest of the less expensive corner outfield market.

/Yankees fan

Signing guys like Pettitte and Rivera to one year deals helps the 2013 team compete without hampering the 2014 budget. And Soriano turns 33 next month. He's not what I'd call a young closer.

/They won't outbid anyone for Swisher. He's going somewhere else

you think so? who will they get? well if ichiro stays but wouldnt we need someone else?

The OF on opening day, barring injuries, will be Gardner-Granderson-Ichiro.

Granderson and Cano hit free agency after the 2013 season
. There is no way that they keep those two guys, plus Swisher and get under the luxury tax limit in 2014. Well, unless one or more of them wants to give them a big time discount, but that' ...


Gardner and Suzuki play a similar offensive game, save for the fact that Gardner actually takes a few pitches. Granderson is obviously going to have to be the only power option in the outfield, if they go with those three as everyday outfielders, which means another higher strike out, lower OBP season, and his free agency value will go down.

As far as Cano goes, they are obviously banking on Rodriguez, Jeter, Rivera and Pettitte to be gone by then, either via trade or retirement. Cano won't give a home team discount to a sinking ship (mixed metaphor), and he will go to the highest bidder, and rightfully so. He is a young, top talent. Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, potential MVP. He should get what he wants, and if he wants to play for a winner and make as much money as possible, he's done nothing to show that he is not deserving.

Someone else said that Soriano wasn't what they'd call a young closer. When your other option for closer is 43, a 33 year old closer who has saved 45 and 42 games in the last two seasons in which he appeared in at least 50 games, I'm going to refer to him as a good young closer.
 
2012-11-27 04:28:52 PM  

theurge14: Sweet. That's 1/6 of the Kansas City Royals player payroll.


And it's twice what the Marlins have committed for 2014!

And most of that is for the departed Heath Bell.
 
2012-11-27 04:38:12 PM  

cobby97: Gardner and Suzuki play a similar offensive game, save for the fact that Gardner actually takes a few pitches. Granderson is obviously going to have to be the only power option in the outfield, if they go with those three as everyday outfielders, which means another higher strike out, lower OBP season, and his free agency value will go down.


I'm not saying that I'm happy with that OF. But that's what it'll be. No power from either of the corners is...... not ideal.

cobby97: As far as Cano goes, they are obviously banking on Rodriguez, Jeter, Rivera and Pettitte to be gone by then, either via trade or retirement. Cano won't give a home team discount to a sinking ship (mixed metaphor), and he will go to the highest bidder, and rightfully so. He is a young, top talent. Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, potential MVP. He should get what he wants, and if he wants to play for a winner and make as much money as possible, he's done nothing to show that he is not deserving.


Pettitte and Rivera will be gone. A-Rod and Jeter will be there in 2014. I don't see anyone taking A-Rod off their hands. Jeter is an interesting case. He has a player option for 2014, so he'll be on the team that year. No way he passes on that and retires. However, if he has a year like he did this year (which is a bit of a tall order), he might opt out and try to get another 3ish year deal. It'll be interesting to see how the Yankees respond to that. But yeah, Cano is going to the highest bidder regardless. That's part of why Swisher won't be back - any money that goes to him now can't go to Cano later.

cobby97: Someone else said that Soriano wasn't what they'd call a young closer. When your other option for closer is 43, a 33 year old closer who has saved 45 and 42 games in the last two seasons in which he appeared in at least 50 games, I'm going to refer to him as a good young closer.


Sure, 33 is young compared to 43, but I'd take a 43 year old Mariano Rivera over a 33 year old Rafael Soriano any day of the week. Plus, Soriano will get a multi-year deal in free agency with easily north of $10 million per season, and that's a bit of a risk, not so much for 2013 but for each season after that.
 
2012-11-27 05:18:58 PM  
Sure, 33 is young compared to 43, but I'd take a 43 year old Mariano Rivera over a 33 year old Rafael Soriano ...

I'd take a 43 year old Mo NOT coming off a missed season due to a knee injury. Any joint injury, actually. I'd also take the 2011 version of Robertson as the heir apparent, but that's just not how it is. The Yanks were fortunate to have Soriano last season. This season the reality is that they have a 43 year old closer with knee trouble and a set-up man with significantly less confidence than he had a year ago. They have an outfield full of centerfielders, only one who hits for power, another is near the end of his career and one coming off an injury and burdened with being a prime OBP guy. A first baseman who is a slick-fielder who either hits a homerun, or a grounder into a shifted infield, and a left side of the infield that (put in the most delicate way possible) has lost a step. Jeter can still hit, but Rodriguez is so deep into his own head that he's come out the other side and comes across as lethargically uninterested. The team's fate in 2013 rests on a healthy rotation, good fortune for a sub-par bullpen (apart from a healthy Rivera), a full season like last season from Jeter, and an MVP type of season from Cano.

I'll be wearing my Yankee cap all season, just like every year, but the dynasty was built by Watson and managed by Torre. All Cashman has done is throw cash at free agents and trade away the farm system, and all Girardi has done is micromanaged his pitching staff into a nervous, talent questioning state of disrepair. That's my opinion, at least.
 
2012-11-27 05:20:54 PM  

cobby97: Cashman is a terrible GM. The word came down from ownership to trim payroll, so he can't park an 18-wheeler full of cash in front of the top free agents' houses anymore. So what is his solution? A one year contract worth over ten million dollars to an over-the-hill pitcher with elbow issues . Also, they let Soriano go so that Mariano can have his farewell season with minimal NY sporting press pressure to go to an alternative if the Yanks slip in the standings. Loyalty is laudable, but Cashman will max out two 40+ year old pitchers, while taking less time to negotiate with their younger free agents. I don't think Swisher needs to be on the team, but he's a switch hitting, corner outfielding, homerun threat, with a high OBP and there aren't a ton of them available. He's not worth Jayson Werth money, Werth isn't worth the money Washington paid him, but there will be a team out there that will offer him that type of contract (Mets? Cubs?). The Yanks would be foolish to match that kind of an offer, and they'd look asinine in the process. You can't stress that you're goal is to trim payroll while signing Pettitte, Rivera, and outbidding for Swisher, while letting go of a younger closer like Soriano and ignoring the rest of the less expensive corner outfield market.

/Yankees fan


I've been told by numerous Yankee fans that Cashman is a great GM. All of the bad signings from the past are Steinbrenner's ego gone mad. Therefore I don't believe you
 
2012-11-27 05:33:58 PM  

HaywoodJablonski: I've been told by numerous Yankee fans that Cashman is a great GM. All of the bad signings from the past are Steinbrenner's ego gone mad. Therefore I don't believe you


I'm a Red Sox fan who thinks that Cashman is a great GM.

Does that count?
 
2012-11-27 05:35:54 PM  
The fark are you people biatching about? Had he not had the fluke broken leg, he'd probably have another stellar season. He's one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball, and he came cheap. What he's paying for Pettitte and Kuroda combined, would only pay for either Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay that the Phillies are stuck with. Let's meet back here in September and see the pitching lines of all four.
 
2012-11-27 05:49:29 PM  

HaywoodJablonski: cobby97: Cashman is a terrible GM. The word came down from ownership to trim payroll, so he can't park an 18-wheeler full of cash in front of the top free agents' houses anymore. So what is his solution? A one year contract worth over ten million dollars to an over-the-hill pitcher with elbow issues . Also, they let Soriano go so that Mariano can have his farewell season with minimal NY sporting press pressure to go to an alternative if the Yanks slip in the standings. Loyalty is laudable, but Cashman will max out two 40+ year old pitchers, while taking less time to negotiate with their younger free agents. I don't think Swisher needs to be on the team, but he's a switch hitting, corner outfielding, homerun threat, with a high OBP and there aren't a ton of them available. He's not worth Jayson Werth money, Werth isn't worth the money Washington paid him, but there will be a team out there that will offer him that type of contract (Mets? Cubs?). The Yanks would be foolish to match that kind of an offer, and they'd look asinine in the process. You can't stress that you're goal is to trim payroll while signing Pettitte, Rivera, and outbidding for Swisher, while letting go of a younger closer like Soriano and ignoring the rest of the less expensive corner outfield market.

/Yankees fan

I've been told by numerous Yankee fans that Cashman is a great GM. All of the bad signings from the past are Steinbrenner's ego gone mad. Therefore I don't believe you


I'll say one thing good about Cashman, when he sets his sights on a player, he gets them. But they had a dynasty built on Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte and Posada, and key free agents like O'Neill and Martinez because Watson did not trade the farm for every run at the post season. He didn't sign the biggest names just to keep them away from the competition. He built the dynasty of my lifetime, took a job with the MLB and Cashman brought in a different mindset. If the boss was going to let him spend for players, he was going to spend. His spending got the Yanks Giambi, Mussina, Kevin Brown, Carl Pavano, AJ Burnett. It also got them Johnny Damon and Sabathia. They traded away a great farm system to get players like a .219 hitting Ivan Rodriguez, an injured Xavier Nady, a 5.40 ERA reliver Damaso Marte, and a classic Jeff Weaver for Carlos Pena and Ted Lilly move, all for playoff pushes that resulted in early exits. Don't forget the four prospects for a three seasons too late Bobby Abreau. It wasn't all bad for Cashman at the deadline though. My favorite deal was snagging Aaron Boone from the Reds in 2003 for a World Series push for two young lefty pitchers Brandon Claussen and Charlie Manning
 
2012-11-27 05:55:49 PM  

hbk72777: The fark are you people biatching about? Had he not had the fluke broken leg, he'd probably have another stellar season. He's one of the most consistent pitchers in baseball, and he came cheap. What he's paying for Pettitte and Kuroda combined, would only pay for either Cliff Lee or Roy Halladay that the Phillies are stuck with. Let's meet back here in September and see the pitching lines of all four.


2013 Pettitte and Kuroda combined will not equal Halladay, or Lee. I'd trade both Pettitte and Kuroda, and probably a few other players for Halladay or Lee
 
2012-11-27 06:00:48 PM  

cobby97: Don't forget the four prospects for a three seasons too late Bobby Abreau


Yeah, C.J. Henry, Jesus Sanchez, Carlos Monasterios and Matt Smith were so much better.
 
2012-11-27 06:06:42 PM  

DeWayne Mann: cobby97: Don't forget the four prospects for a three seasons too late Bobby Abreau

Yeah, C.J. Henry, Jesus Sanchez, Carlos Monasterios and Matt Smith were so much better.


When you measure success in championships, they were exactly the same, and what's worse is that the Yankees no longer had them to trade for someone who could help them win a world series. So, snark aside, the way I see it, they were all of equal worth to the franchise.
 
2012-11-27 06:14:38 PM  

cobby97: HaywoodJablonski: cobby97: Cashman is a terrible GM. The word came down from ownership to trim payroll, so he can't park an 18-wheeler full of cash in front of the top free agents' houses anymore. So what is his solution? A one year contract worth over ten million dollars to an over-the-hill pitcher with elbow issues . Also, they let Soriano go so that Mariano can have his farewell season with minimal NY sporting press pressure to go to an alternative if the Yanks slip in the standings. Loyalty is laudable, but Cashman will max out two 40+ year old pitchers, while taking less time to negotiate with their younger free agents. I don't think Swisher needs to be on the team, but he's a switch hitting, corner outfielding, homerun threat, with a high OBP and there aren't a ton of them available. He's not worth Jayson Werth money, Werth isn't worth the money Washington paid him, but there will be a team out there that will offer him that type of contract (Mets? Cubs?). The Yanks would be foolish to match that kind of an offer, and they'd look asinine in the process. You can't stress that you're goal is to trim payroll while signing Pettitte, Rivera, and outbidding for Swisher, while letting go of a younger closer like Soriano and ignoring the rest of the less expensive corner outfield market.

/Yankees fan

I've been told by numerous Yankee fans that Cashman is a great GM. All of the bad signings from the past are Steinbrenner's ego gone mad. Therefore I don't believe you

I'll say one thing good about Cashman, when he sets his sights on a player, he gets them. But they had a dynasty built on Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte and Posada, and key free agents like O'Neill and Martinez because Watson did not trade the farm for every run at the post season. He didn't sign the biggest names just to keep them away from the competition. He built the dynasty of my lifetime, took a job with the MLB and Cashman brought in a different mindset. If the boss was going to let him spend for playe ...


Where do I start?

-O'Neill was acquired through one of those evil trades you're ranting about
-Ivan Rodriguez was acquired for Kyle Farnsworth. He's a "great player"?
-Abreu worked out just fine (120 OPS+ in NY) and they got him for peanuts
-If you think they gave up stars for Nady and Marte, then your definition of "stars" sucks........
 
2012-11-27 06:19:42 PM  

HaywoodJablonski: cobby97: Cashman is a terrible GM. The word came down from ownership to trim payroll, so he can't park an 18-wheeler full of cash in front of the top free agents' houses anymore. So what is his solution? A one year contract worth over ten million dollars to an over-the-hill pitcher with elbow issues . Also, they let Soriano go so that Mariano can have his farewell season with minimal NY sporting press pressure to go to an alternative if the Yanks slip in the standings. Loyalty is laudable, but Cashman will max out two 40+ year old pitchers, while taking less time to negotiate with their younger free agents. I don't think Swisher needs to be on the team, but he's a switch hitting, corner outfielding, homerun threat, with a high OBP and there aren't a ton of them available. He's not worth Jayson Werth money, Werth isn't worth the money Washington paid him, but there will be a team out there that will offer him that type of contract (Mets? Cubs?). The Yanks would be foolish to match that kind of an offer, and they'd look asinine in the process. You can't stress that you're goal is to trim payroll while signing Pettitte, Rivera, and outbidding for Swisher, while letting go of a younger closer like Soriano and ignoring the rest of the less expensive corner outfield market.

/Yankees fan

I've been told by numerous Yankee fans that Cashman is a great GM. All of the bad signings from the past are Steinbrenner's ego gone mad. Therefore I don't believe you


Just a reminder that this guy is apparently against resigning the greatest reliever of all time. His opinion might be just a bit...... off
 
2012-11-27 06:22:03 PM  

cobby97: When you measure success in championships,


Well at least we're comfortable with saying that 97% of GMs are failures every year. Or does that standard only apply to the Yankees, because they're *special*?

But, hey, maybe you're right, and Abreu TOTALLY screwed them out of a championship. Let's see what he did...

Well, in the 2006 ALDS, he hit .083/.083/.083. WORTHLESS.

Wait, no, that was Gary Sheffield. Abreu hit .333/.412/.400.

I'm sure he was terrible in 2007, right? Looks like he .176/.176/.176. What a washed up bum, right?

Oh, oh crap. I looked at the wrong line again. That was Jeter. Abreu hit .267/.353/.533.

And then in 2008, they didn't even make the playoffs! I'm sure this is because of Abreu, and not, say, Melky Cabrera hitting .249/.301/.341 and Darrell Rasner getting the third most starts on the team. If only they had traded those 4 crappy guys for someone who could've put up 8 WAR that year instead of just 2....
 
2012-11-27 06:22:56 PM  

cobby97: DeWayne Mann: cobby97: Don't forget the four prospects for a three seasons too late Bobby Abreau

Yeah, C.J. Henry, Jesus Sanchez, Carlos Monasterios and Matt Smith were so much better.

When you measure success in championships, they were exactly the same, and what's worse is that the Yankees no longer had them to trade for someone who could help them win a world series. So, snark aside, the way I see it, they were all of equal worth to the franchise.


Abreu was one of the few guys that hit in the '06 and '07 playoffs
 
2012-11-27 06:27:04 PM  

Rex_Banner: Abreu was one of the few guys that hit in the '06 and '07 playoffs


Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

You're killing the narrative! Plus we ALL KNOW CJ Henry would've hit .800/.900/1.250 if he had only had a chance!
 
2012-11-27 06:28:53 PM  
O'Neill was a Watson deal, and the Pudge and Abreu acquisitions didn't yield a single ring. This is a franchise that has defined itself by championships, not just in my lifetime, but through the history of the sport. Cashman is not the worst GM that they've ever had, but he cannot be given credit for the dynasty which was built by the previous GM. It's like a college athletic director coming in, keeping the same coaching staff and taking credit for the team's success. All Cashman had to do for the first 7-10 years that he was GM was NOT screw up the core. Mission accomplished. Since then, he's fixed it so that the Yankees will have to buy their next franchise foundation pieces because, aside from Cano, there aren't any ready for the MLB, and if they are in the hunt this July, Cashman will trade away more of what's left of the farm system to get the team to October.
 
2012-11-27 06:36:18 PM  

cobby97: O'Neill was a Watson deal, and the Pudge and Abreu acquisitions didn't yield a single ring. This is a franchise that has defined itself by championships, not just in my lifetime, but through the history of the sport. Cashman is not the worst GM that they've ever had, but he cannot be given credit for the dynasty which was built by the previous GM. It's like a college athletic director coming in, keeping the same coaching staff and taking credit for the team's success. All Cashman had to do for the first 7-10 years that he was GM was NOT screw up the core. Mission accomplished. Since then, he's fixed it so that the Yankees will have to buy their next franchise foundation pieces because, aside from Cano, there aren't any ready for the MLB, and if they are in the hunt this July, Cashman will trade away more of what's left of the farm system to get the team to October.


So trading for Abreu was bad because they didn't win the World Series, even though Abreu was really, really good those years? What should he ave done instead? Not get Abreu and lose even worse?

Also, when was the last Cashman traded the farm away at the deadline?
 
2012-11-27 06:39:51 PM  
Just so we're clear, if Brian Cashman had traded a used tissue for Mark Teixeira at the 2008 trade deadline, that would've been a bad deal, since they would've missed the playoffs anyway?
 
2012-11-27 06:40:41 PM  

Rex_Banner: Also, when was the last Cashman traded the farm away at the deadline?


Well, if you assume every player in the farm system is the greatest prospect in history....
 
2012-11-27 06:43:21 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Rex_Banner: Abreu was one of the few guys that hit in the '06 and '07 playoffs

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

You're killing the narrative! Plus we ALL KNOW CJ Henry would've hit .800/.900/1.250 if he had only had a chance!


Abreu was a good player, but a lot of his success as a Yankee was due in part to hitting third in a 1-8 murderers row type of line-up. I didn't want to make Abreu out to be the lone rotten apple, and like you said he had two decent post seasons, but all that adds up to nothing. I saw no reason to keep Ibanez after this past season, even though he was the only one on the team who knew what a bat was for in October. I thought Abreu was a good fit for the Yankees when they opted to take Mondesi instead, and when he finally did become a Yankee, I thought his window had closed. Right person at the wrong time.

As for CJ Henry, I doubt he could have helped, but if they didn't trade him for Abreu, who helped the Yankees get zero championships, perhaps they could have included him in a different deal for a player who would have helped them get a championship. That's all I was thinking.
 
2012-11-27 06:49:48 PM  

cobby97: perhaps they could have included him in a different deal for a player who would have helped them get a championship.


Makes sense, because the Phillies immediately turned around and flipped him to

um

oh, they released him after 2007 and then the Yankees signed him again until THEY released him at the end of '08, at which point he went back to college to play Basketball.  Yep, he was a hot commodity, I'll tell you what.

In fact, of those 4 players, only Monasterios was ever traded again, and that was for an incredibly small sum of cash.
 
2012-11-27 06:56:05 PM  

cobby97: DeWayne Mann: Rex_Banner: Abreu was one of the few guys that hit in the '06 and '07 playoffs

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

You're killing the narrative! Plus we ALL KNOW CJ Henry would've hit .800/.900/1.250 if he had only had a chance!

Abreu was a good player, but a lot of his success as a Yankee was due in part to hitting third in a 1-8 murderers row type of line-up. I didn't want to make Abreu out to be the lone rotten apple, and like you said he had two decent post seasons, but all that adds up to nothing. I saw no reason to keep Ibanez after this past season, even though he was the only one on the team who knew what a bat was for in October. I thought Abreu was a good fit for the Yankees when they opted to take Mondesi instead, and when he finally did become a Yankee, I thought his window had closed. Right person at the wrong time.

As for CJ Henry, I doubt he could have helped, but if they didn't trade him for Abreu, who helped the Yankees get zero championships, perhaps they could have included him in a different deal for a player who would have helped them get a championship. That's all I was thinking.


There was virtually no way they were going to get someone better than Abreu for those guys. It sucks that they didn't win, but you can't say that they maybe could've possibly in some parallel universe found someone better. Sometimes you make the right moves and still lose. That's baseball.
 
2012-11-27 06:57:43 PM  

Rex_Banner: you can't say that they maybe could've possibly in some parallel universe found someone better.


You can if you believe the GM has 100% control over what happens in the playoffs.
 
2012-11-27 06:58:49 PM  

DeWayne Mann: cobby97: perhaps they could have included him in a different deal for a player who would have helped them get a championship.

Makes sense, because the Phillies immediately turned around and flipped him to

um

oh, they released him after 2007 and then the Yankees signed him again until THEY released him at the end of '08, at which point he went back to college to play Basketball.  Yep, he was a hot commodity, I'll tell you what.

In fact, of those 4 players, only Monasterios was ever traded again, and that was for an incredibly small sum of cash.


If he was good enough to be trade bait for Abreu at the time, perhaps he was good enough to be trade bait for someone different, someone better, at that time. Not the year after, not even later in the same season. I'm saying they jumped at Abreu too quickly without examining other areas of need. I'm not comparing any of the players who Abreu was traded for to him, I'm saying that at the time, if they were good enough to get Abreu, maybe they'd have been good enough to get someone different. A different position need. Someone to bolster the bullpen. An extra starter for the stretch run. No matter how I put it, it makes me sound like I'm saying Abreu was bad, when what I'm trying to say is that he wasn't the piece that was going to help them win the World Series, which is what al managers, and GM's should be measured by, especially if their ownership has been as outspoken as George Steinbrenner about second place being another word for loser.
 
2012-11-27 07:04:46 PM  

cobby97: DeWayne Mann: cobby97: perhaps they could have included him in a different deal for a player who would have helped them get a championship.

Makes sense, because the Phillies immediately turned around and flipped him to

um

oh, they released him after 2007 and then the Yankees signed him again until THEY released him at the end of '08, at which point he went back to college to play Basketball.  Yep, he was a hot commodity, I'll tell you what.

In fact, of those 4 players, only Monasterios was ever traded again, and that was for an incredibly small sum of cash.

If he was good enough to be trade bait for Abreu at the time, perhaps he was good enough to be trade bait for someone different, someone better, at that time. Not the year after, not even later in the same season. I'm saying they jumped at Abreu too quickly without examining other areas of need. I'm not comparing any of the players who Abreu was traded for to him, I'm saying that at the time, if they were good enough to get Abreu, maybe they'd have been good enough to get someone different. A different position need. Someone to bolster the bullpen. An extra starter for the stretch run. No matter how I put it, it makes me sound like I'm saying Abreu was bad, when what I'm trying to say is that he wasn't the piece that was going to help them win the World Series, which is what al managers, and GM's should be measured by, especially if their ownership has been as outspoken as George Steinbrenner about second place being another word for loser.


Like who?
 
2012-11-27 07:08:45 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Rex_Banner: you can't say that they maybe could've possibly in some parallel universe found someone better.

You can if you believe the GM has 100% control over what happens in the playoffs.


It's a video game, right?
 
2012-11-27 07:12:06 PM  

cobby97: If he was good enough to be trade bait for Abreu at the time, perhaps he was good enough to be trade bait for someone different, someone better, at that time.


This logic is flawless. Similarly, if Ichiro is willing to take a $5 million contract, there's probably someone even BETTER who will also take a $5mil contract. Cashman should call up BJ Upton immediately to test this theory.

cobby97: what I'm trying to say is that he wasn't the piece that was going to help them win the World Series


No, the piece they needed was a Derek Jeter ACL tear in September 2007. They should've traded Jesus Sanchez for one of those, then let CJ Henry play SS instead.
 
2012-11-27 07:13:03 PM  

Rex_Banner: DeWayne Mann: Rex_Banner: you can't say that they maybe could've possibly in some parallel universe found someone better.

You can if you believe the GM has 100% control over what happens in the playoffs.

It's a video game, right?


As someone who may have spent half the day playing OotP, don't even get me started.
 
2012-11-27 07:13:48 PM  

Rex_Banner: cobby97: DeWayne Mann: cobby97: perhaps they could have included him in a different deal for a player who would have helped them get a championship.

Makes sense, because the Phillies immediately turned around and flipped him to

um

oh, they released him after 2007 and then the Yankees signed him again until THEY released him at the end of '08, at which point he went back to college to play Basketball.  Yep, he was a hot commodity, I'll tell you what.

In fact, of those 4 players, only Monasterios was ever traded again, and that was for an incredibly small sum of cash.

If he was good enough to be trade bait for Abreu at the time, perhaps he was good enough to be trade bait for someone different, someone better, at that time. Not the year after, not even later in the same season. I'm saying they jumped at Abreu too quickly without examining other areas of need. I'm not comparing any of the players who Abreu was traded for to him, I'm saying that at the time, if they were good enough to get Abreu, maybe they'd have been good enough to get someone different. A different position need. Someone to bolster the bullpen. An extra starter for the stretch run. No matter how I put it, it makes me sound like I'm saying Abreu was bad, when what I'm trying to say is that he wasn't the piece that was going to help them win the World Series, which is what al managers, and GM's should be measured by, especially if their ownership has been as outspoken as George Steinbrenner about second place being another word for loser.

Like who?


I don't know, but at the same deadline Greg Maddux, a young Kyle Lohse and Sean Casey were all traded. Casey wasn't an outfielder, but he was as steady a bat at Abreu and they might not have had to trade al the pieces of the Abreu trade for him, and used the others in a package for someone else.
 
2012-11-27 07:19:28 PM  

cobby97: Sean Casey


wait, wait, wait. hold on a second. i must've misread. let me look again

cobby97: Sean Casey


Nope, you clearly just suggested Sean Casey.

Sean Casey, who went on to hit .245/.286/.364 after the trade. After hitting .296/.377/.408 before the trade.

No, clearly, that's the guy you want, instead of getting the TERRIBLE Abreu who was hitting .277/.427/.434 with the Phillies and went on to hit .330/.419/.507.
 
2012-11-27 07:22:52 PM  
That's what I said. I said Abreu was terrible. I also said that the trade exactly proposed for Abreu was the only one that would get Casey, and I clearly never mentioned the possibility of a Casey trade leaving open an option for a second trade.
 
2012-11-27 07:26:06 PM  

cobby97: That's what I said. I said Abreu was terrible. I also said that the trade exactly proposed for Abreu was the only one that would get Casey, and I clearly never mentioned the possibility of a Casey trade leaving open an option for a second trade.


Well, you did say that Casey's bat was "as steady" as Abreu, whatever the crap that means.

Does it mean "much much worse?"
 
2012-11-27 07:32:09 PM  

cobby97: Rex_Banner: cobby97: DeWayne Mann: cobby97: perhaps they could have included him in a different deal for a player who would have helped them get a championship.

Makes sense, because the Phillies immediately turned around and flipped him to

um

oh, they released him after 2007 and then the Yankees signed him again until THEY released him at the end of '08, at which point he went back to college to play Basketball.  Yep, he was a hot commodity, I'll tell you what.

In fact, of those 4 players, only Monasterios was ever traded again, and that was for an incredibly small sum of cash.

If he was good enough to be trade bait for Abreu at the time, perhaps he was good enough to be trade bait for someone different, someone better, at that time. Not the year after, not even later in the same season. I'm saying they jumped at Abreu too quickly without examining other areas of need. I'm not comparing any of the players who Abreu was traded for to him, I'm saying that at the time, if they were good enough to get Abreu, maybe they'd have been good enough to get someone different. A different position need. Someone to bolster the bullpen. An extra starter for the stretch run. No matter how I put it, it makes me sound like I'm saying Abreu was bad, when what I'm trying to say is that he wasn't the piece that was going to help them win the World Series, which is what al managers, and GM's should be measured by, especially if their ownership has been as outspoken as George Steinbrenner about second place being another word for loser.

Like who?

I don't know, but at the same deadline Greg Maddux, a young Kyle Lohse and Sean Casey were all traded. Casey wasn't an outfielder, but he was as steady a bat at Abreu and they might not have had to trade al the pieces of the Abreu trade for him, and used the others in a package for someone else.


Maddux and Casey were traded for MLB-level players. BAD players, yes, but guys that had actually made it to the show. The guys in the Abreu deal were low-level minor leaguers - only one had even seen AA at the time! And they were not highly ratedprospects. They were not getting Maddux with those guys. No chance.

Those guys got Abreu largely because Philly wanted to dump salary, not because they had any real trade value.
 
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