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(ESPN)   Marvin Miller, founder of MLBPA and achieved the right of free agency, is now going to the big bargaining table in the sky   (espn.go.com) divider line 42
    More: Sad, MLBPA, free agent, San Francisco Giants, California Angels, Dodgers, Atlanta Braves, sky  
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169 clicks; posted to Sports » on 27 Nov 2012 at 12:02 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-27 12:11:11 PM  
I've heard be refused to cross a picket line at the Pearly Gates.....he is, by far, the most significant person in the history of the business of sport. RIP, labor man
 
2012-11-27 12:22:41 PM  
Maybe this means he'll finally be elected into the Hall of Fame?

"Marvin Miller, along with Babe Ruth and Jackie Robinson, is one of the two or three most important men in baseball history." - Red Barber
 
2012-11-27 12:23:53 PM  
4.bp.blogspot.com

RIP Mitch Miller 
 
2012-11-27 12:32:17 PM  
Greatest man in baseball of the last 50 years, no question. Well. him and whomever invented the DH.
 
2012-11-27 12:43:24 PM  

JosephFinn: Well. him and whomever invented the DH.


Whoever invented the DH was almost certainly dead 50 years ago. There's 4 guys worth mentioning: Ted Sullivan (who died in 1929), William Temple (who died in 1917), Connie Mack (who died in 1956) and John Heydler (who ALSO died in 1956).

Charlie O. Finley was the driving force behind the AL adopting it, but he wasn't even close to being the inventor.
 
2012-11-27 12:46:32 PM  
RIP sir. You're the reason our game is so great.
 
2012-11-27 12:53:29 PM  
The MLBPA is probably the strongest and most enduring players union in all of sports.
 
2012-11-27 01:06:54 PM  
Richard Nixon recommended Miller to the nascent players union after turning down the job himself!
Nixon also once turned down the offer to become the commissioner of baseball.
 
2012-11-27 01:09:11 PM  

Delawheredad: Richard Nixon recommended Miller to the nascent players union after turning down the job himself!
Nixon also once turned down the offer to become the commissioner of baseball.


Where's your Nixon now?
 
2012-11-27 01:18:39 PM  

Supes: Maybe this means he'll finally be elected into the Hall of Fame?

"Marvin Miller, along with Babe Ruth and Jackie Robinson, is one of the two or three most important men in baseball history." - Red Barber


Miller and Branch Rickey are probably the two most influential non-players in the history of the game.
 
2012-11-27 01:22:52 PM  

Rex_Banner: Miller and Branch Rickey are probably the two most influential non-players in the history of the game.


Branch Rickey was a player. I mean, he didn't do anything at all important as a player, but still.
 
2012-11-27 01:26:45 PM  

Delawheredad: Richard Nixon recommended Miller to the nascent player union after turning down the job himself!
Nixon also once turned down the offer to become the commissioner of baseball.


Not true, on either account.

According to this obituary from the Boston Globe, he was recommended by an economist who was a friend of former pitcher and current HOF'er Robin Roberts.

And according to this obituary from the New York Daily News, Nixon was offered the position of "general counsel of the union", not commissioner. He didn't get it because Miller refused to work with him, and the player's union wanted Miller more.
 
2012-11-27 01:26:49 PM  
I'm fascinated by this guy's role in the transformation of athletes into celebrities. Discuss?
 
2012-11-27 01:29:45 PM  

star_topology: I'm fascinated by this guy's role in the transformation of athletes into celebrities. Discuss?


That started long before him (Babe Ruth)
 
2012-11-27 01:36:39 PM  

The Bestest: star_topology: I'm fascinated by this guy's role in the transformation of athletes into celebrities. Discuss?

That started long before him (Babe Ruth)


In fairness, it's pretty obvious that the line "Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio" was only written because Miller became MLBPA director the previous year.
 
2012-11-27 01:40:10 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Rex_Banner: Miller and Branch Rickey are probably the two most influential non-players in the history of the game.

Branch Rickey was a player. I mean, he didn't do anything at all important as a player, but still.


Hey, Rickey is supposed to have been a pretty terrible baseball player. That's notable..... sorta.

/The two people who most influenced the game without being players at the time that they made their impact?
 
2012-11-27 01:49:15 PM  

Rex_Banner: /The two people who most influenced the game without being players at the time that they made their impact?


Better...I think.

(Though I find it endlessly amusing that, despite being retired from playing for like 7 years, he randomly used himself as a pinch hitter TWICE as a manager) 

I think we might be overlooking Landis, though. Yeah, he was a massive racist, and it's amusing to mention him & Rickey together since they completely disagreed on, well, everything...but there probably wouldn't be baseball anymore if not for him.
 
2012-11-27 01:50:21 PM  

The Bestest: star_topology: I'm fascinated by this guy's role in the transformation of athletes into celebrities. Discuss?

That started long before him (Babe Ruth)


Indeed. It's estimated that Ruth was the most photographed man in the world in the 1920's. That's quite impressive.

DeWayne Mann: In fairness, it's pretty obvious that the line "Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio" was only written because Miller became MLBPA director the previous year.


Before Miller came along, players like DiMaggio would never hold out for more money, right?
 
2012-11-27 01:55:33 PM  

The Bestest: The MLBPA is probably the strongest and most enduring players union in all of sports.


This.

SkylineRecords: RIP sir. You're the reason our game is so great.


And that.

/puts cap on heart
//bows head
 
2012-11-27 01:58:51 PM  

Rex_Banner: Before Miller came along, players like DiMaggio would never hold out for more money, right?


A hold out? Well, I NEVER.

Everyone knows the players back then were paid precisely what they were worth to the team. Unlike nowadays, when they bleed these poor owners for every last cent.
 
2012-11-27 02:07:57 PM  
He should be in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Period.
 
2012-11-27 02:17:34 PM  

DeWayne Mann: JosephFinn: Well. him and whomever invented the DH.

Whoever invented the DH was almost certainly dead 50 years ago. There's 4 guys worth mentioning: Ted Sullivan (who died in 1929), William Temple (who died in 1917), Connie Mack (who died in 1956) and John Heydler (who ALSO died in 1956).

Charlie O. Finley was the driving force behind the AL adopting it, but he wasn't even close to being the inventor.


You are absolutely correct. Put them all in then. (Yeah, I know some are already.)
 
2012-11-27 03:08:54 PM  
All sports leagues owe Marvin Miller for wiping the idea of a "reserve clause" from our lexicon.

He should be in all professional sports halls of fame.
 
2012-11-27 03:10:31 PM  

DeWayne Mann: I think we might be overlooking Landis, though. Yeah, he was a massive racist, and it's amusing to mention him & Rickey together since they completely disagreed on, well, everything...but there probably wouldn't be baseball anymore if not for him.


Ohhh Landis is a good choice. Yeah, he's definitely in the discussion
 
2012-11-27 03:40:04 PM  

Rex_Banner: DeWayne Mann: I think we might be overlooking Landis, though. Yeah, he was a massive racist, and it's amusing to mention him & Rickey together since they completely disagreed on, well, everything...but there probably wouldn't be baseball anymore if not for him.

Ohhh Landis is a good choice. Yeah, he's definitely in the discussion


If there is any justice, Landis is right now in Hell getting sodomized with a nail-encrusted baseball bat that has been dipped in hydrochloric acid.
 
2012-11-27 03:59:36 PM  
feindishFellow05

According to this source I am correct .

Link
 
2012-11-27 04:10:30 PM  
The LA Times also claims he was offered both positions.

Link
 
2012-11-27 06:07:11 PM  

DeWayne Mann:
I think we might be overlooking Landis, though. Yeah, he was a massive racist, and it's amusing to mention him & Rickey together since they completely disagreed on, well, everything...but there probably wouldn't be baseball anymore if not for him.



Massive racist and the reason Buck Weaver and Joe Jackson are unfairly not in the Hall. Forget it.
 
2012-11-27 06:25:39 PM  

JosephFinn: Massive racist and the reason Buck Weaver and Joe Jackson are unfairly not in the Hall. Forget it.


...Buck Weaver in the Hall? Huh?
 
2012-11-27 06:57:18 PM  

DeWayne Mann: JosephFinn: Massive racist and the reason Buck Weaver and Joe Jackson are unfairly not in the Hall. Forget it.

...Buck Weaver in the Hall? Huh?


Yeah, even if Weaver had been allowed to finish his MLB career, he would not have made it in, nor should he have. And Cicotte deserves more consideration numbers-wise. 209 wins and a 2.38 ERA. He only won 20+ three times, but two of those times were his last two seasons. He was 36 in his last season, so he could have put together another couple solid years to add to the wins and get another 20+ season. He compares closely with HOFers Coveleski, Bender and Chesbro. I don't think I'd vote for him today if he was on a ballot, but he deserves some consideration.

Anyone have any opinions on the upcoming veterans ballot?
 
2012-11-27 07:05:18 PM  

The Downfall: Anyone have any opinions on the upcoming veterans ballot?


Dahlen SHOULD be in the Hall; Ferrell & White wouldn't be terrible. Wouldn't be surprised to see Ruppert.

But, really, going back to look at JUST pre-1947 guys is just dumb. Then again, I would expect nothing less from the VC.
 
2012-11-27 07:24:33 PM  

DeWayne Mann: The Downfall: Anyone have any opinions on the upcoming veterans ballot?

Dahlen SHOULD be in the Hall; Ferrell & White wouldn't be terrible. Wouldn't be surprised to see Ruppert.

But, really, going back to look at JUST pre-1947 guys is just dumb. Then again, I would expect nothing less from the VC.


I'd vote for Breadon, Dahlen, Mullane, Reach, Ruppert and White. With Dahlen, I was on the fence at first glance, because I took his numbers at face value. Looking at them in the context of his era and he gets my vote. I'm surprised Mullane didn't get in earlier.
 
2012-11-27 07:39:30 PM  

The Downfall: Breadon


I'm not entirely convinced that "hired Branch Rickey" is really Hall worthy. A smart move, to be sure. But that's really all he did.

The Downfall: Mullane


I tend to hold the belief that 1800s pitching quality didn't matter all that much, and that there's way too much noise (from things like poor fielding) to really make a good determination on anyone.

The Downfall: Reach


With an exec, I'm looking for someone who significantly changed something about the game. Founding a team & being a worse businessman than Spalding doesn't really qualify for me.
 
2012-11-27 07:58:27 PM  

DeWayne Mann: The Downfall: Breadon

I'm not entirely convinced that "hired Branch Rickey" is really Hall worthy. A smart move, to be sure. But that's really all he did.

The Downfall: Mullane

I tend to hold the belief that 1800s pitching quality didn't matter all that much, and that there's way too much noise (from things like poor fielding) to really make a good determination on anyone.

The Downfall: Reach

With an exec, I'm looking for someone who significantly changed something about the game. Founding a team & being a worse businessman than Spalding doesn't really qualify for me.


With Breadon, I'm going on the pennants and WS wins, along with the hiring/working with Rickey and the farm system.
I understand your argument about judging the 1800s. But I do think Mullane belongs with Galvin and Keefe and such. I don't know how well those 300 game winners from the 1800s would do today, but they were the best of their era, and should be in.

With Reach, it's really more of the "Reach guide" should be in. It was pretty damn influential and popular. But leaving him off is a pretty fair choice when you put more thought into it.
 
2012-11-27 08:12:31 PM  

DeWayne Mann: The Downfall: Anyone have any opinions on the upcoming veterans ballot?

Dahlen SHOULD be in the Hall; Ferrell & White wouldn't be terrible. Wouldn't be surprised to see Ruppert.

But, really, going back to look at JUST pre-1947 guys is just dumb. Then again, I would expect nothing less from the VC.


Ruppert should have been in a long time ago...just as it will take a long time to get Steinbrenner in.

You forgot that Hank O'Day is on the ballot - an original NL umpire who made one of the ballsiest calls in baseball history in the infamous Merkle's Boner game of 1908. O'Day was one of the best in a day when umpires were spit on, poorly paid and were under constant physical threat.

Funny how, generally speaking, both owners and umpires usually have to be dead before they get in the HOF. The same thing with Miller - eventually he will get in...but not for a long time!
 
2012-11-27 08:16:51 PM  

zeppo: DeWayne Mann: The Downfall: Anyone have any opinions on the upcoming veterans ballot?

Dahlen SHOULD be in the Hall; Ferrell & White wouldn't be terrible. Wouldn't be surprised to see Ruppert.

But, really, going back to look at JUST pre-1947 guys is just dumb. Then again, I would expect nothing less from the VC.

Ruppert should have been in a long time ago...just as it will take a long time to get Steinbrenner in.

You forgot that Hank O'Day is on the ballot - an original NL umpire who made one of the ballsiest calls in baseball history in the infamous Merkle's Boner game of 1908. O'Day was one of the best in a day when umpires were spit on, poorly paid and were under constant physical threat.

Funny how, generally speaking, both owners and umpires usually have to be dead before they get in the HOF. The same thing with Miller - eventually he will get in...but not for a long time!


I don't feel like I can fairly judge umpires from before I was born, but you have a great point. According to the BBHOF's site:
Hank O'Day spent 30 years as a major league umpire during a period from 1888-1927, officiating 10 World Series, tied for second most in history. Was selected to umpire the first World Series in 1903. Also played and managed in the majors, as a pitcher from 1884-1890. Managed the 1912 Reds and the 1914 Cubs.

30 years and 10 World Series is nothing to thumb a nose at. Sounds as deserving or more so than the other umps in the Hall already.
 
2012-11-27 08:20:51 PM  

The Downfall: I don't know how well those 300 game winners from the 1800s would do today, but they were the best of their era, and should be in.


I just don't see any way of saying, for instance, that Mullane was definitely better than Jim Whitney. He pitched longer, yes, but was he more talented?

And if we're talking Whitney, well, what about Charlie Buffinton? Or Gus Weyhing?

There's just a whole bunch of guys from that era who seem roughly equal to me, especially knowing how bad defense was at the time (and this is good chance to point out that I don't like using ERA NOW because of defensive issues, so I really don't like it for back then). And while I'm not a Small Hall guy by any means, I'd rather not stick them all in.
 
2012-11-27 08:22:49 PM  

zeppo: You forgot that Hank O'Day is on the ballot - an original NL umpire who made one of the ballsiest calls in baseball history in the infamous Merkle's Boner game of 1908. O'Day was one of the best in a day when umpires were spit on, poorly paid and were under constant physical threat.


I literally do not care about Umps in the Hall. Put them all in, leave them all out. Honestly, don't care a bit.
 
2012-11-27 08:41:38 PM  

star_topology: I'm fascinated by this guy's role in the transformation of athletes into celebrities. Discuss?


America's earliest sports celebrities is actually a fascinating topic. For example, one of the most famous people in America during the 1870s was...a race walker.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8339692/brian-phillips-edward-pay s on-weston
 
2012-11-27 08:48:43 PM  

DeWayne Mann: The Downfall: Breadon

I'm not entirely convinced that "hired Branch Rickey" is really Hall worthy. A smart move, to be sure. But that's really all he did.


The Downfall: Reach

With an exec, I'm looking for someone who significantly changed something about the game. Founding a team & being a worse businessman than Spalding doesn't really qualify for me.


You do understand that Reach was in business with Spalding, right? Here is a rough order of business:

Al Spalding retires as a player, and goes in the business of making baseballs and other sporting goods. He gets the contract to be the sole supplier of baseballs to the National League, by GIVING THE BALLS TO THEM FOR FREE. He figures, quite correctly, that being the only supplier of baseballs to the only big league at the time, would be good advertising. Spalding becomes one of the biggest sporting goods companies in the country.

When Ban Johnson is putting the American League together in 1900/01, he needs ateam in Philadelphia, so he makes a deal with Reach, and Reach ends up owning the Philly franchise, plus getting the AL baseball contract.

Not long after, Reach sells his company to Spalding -BUT- remains as titular head of the Reach Sporting Goods company, as Spalding wants everyone to think Reach is a separate company. Why? Because Spalding wants to use Reach's better facility to make the Spalding ball also! Spalding also buys up pretty much the rest of his competition in the same manner - keeping them as outwardly separate companies, but with every single one of their baseballs being made at the Reach plant. Apparently, just a few select people knew this, even though the "Reach" company advertised in the Spalding Guide, and Spalding doing the same in the Reach Guide.

Doesn't sound like too bad a businessman to me!
 
2012-11-27 09:08:58 PM  

zeppo: You do understand that Reach was in business with Spalding, right? Here is a rough order of business:


Can't say I've ever heard this version of things before...but I still don't see how that leads us to a different conclusion than "Spalding was a better businessman then Reach"
 
2012-11-30 01:32:55 PM  

JosephFinn: Greatest man in baseball of the last 50 years, no question. Well. him and whomever invented the DH.


Agree.
 
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