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(Yahoo)   The new Era of Bipatisan cooperation is here: Dem Senator introduces a bill to expand hunter's rights to hunt of federal land and block the EPA from regulating lead in bullets-and the GOP blocks it, "on principle"-it's gonna be a long four years   (news.yahoo.com ) divider line 249
    More: Asinine, EPA, GOP, Public Works Committee, lead in, Senate Budget Committee, shooting ranges, Wildlife Services, environmental laws  
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6097 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Nov 2012 at 12:27 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-27 11:33:17 AM  
That's the Party of "No" for you.

I honestly think the GOP is so heavily leveraged into their current 'win it all or refuse to do anything' mindset that a Democrat could propose a bill to the Tea Party sponsor a NRA-led lynch mob that had a legal mandate to drag Bill & Hilary, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Joe Biden, and Barack Obama into the street, stone them half to death,and then cover them in kerosene and set them alight to spend their last moments on Earth in soul-rending agony, and the GOP would vote no. Just because a Republican didn't author the bill.
 
2012-11-27 11:38:06 AM  
And the GOP likes to paint the Dems as the anti-gun party?! Whatever.
 
2012-11-27 11:39:30 AM  
WTF? No, really, WTF?
 
2012-11-27 11:39:38 AM  
Sessions is such a little twerp. He's also a signer of Norquist's tax pledge.
 
2012-11-27 11:40:29 AM  
In total, the bill would be something Teddy Roosevelt would have supported.

But that's not good enough for today's GOP.
 
2012-11-27 11:48:45 AM  
If there's one thing the conservatives cannot stand, it's conservation
 
2012-11-27 11:50:29 AM  
Wait... Lead shot and weights are still legal in the US? I presume that you've taken it out of paint and fuel at this point, though. Although, that would explain a whole lot.
 
2012-11-27 11:54:05 AM  

unyon: Wait... Lead shot and weights are still legal in the US? I presume that you've taken it out of paint and fuel at this point, though. Although, that would explain a whole lot.


Bad in Chinese products. Just swell when we pollute our natural resources with it.
 
2012-11-27 11:54:58 AM  

unyon: Wait... Lead shot and weights are still legal in the US? I presume that you've taken it out of paint and fuel at this point, though. Although, that would explain a whole lot.


Yea, I have a problem with the lead thing, otherwise the rest of the bill seemed ok.
 
2012-11-27 11:57:41 AM  

unyon: Wait... Lead shot and weights are still legal in the US? I presume that you've taken it out of paint and fuel at this point, though. Although, that would explain a whole lot.


The U.S. military finally ditched it. I think the new rounds are made from some tungsten-tin alloy, but don't quote me on that. Using lead rounds for training was a huge hassle with the German version of the EPA, for units based in Germany.
 
2012-11-27 11:59:15 AM  

Diogenes: Sessions is such a little twerp. He's also a signer of Norquist's tax pledge.


Jeff Sessions (R)

There, I said the same thing, using less words.
 
2012-11-27 12:03:24 PM  

minoridiot: unyon: Wait... Lead shot and weights are still legal in the US? I presume that you've taken it out of paint and fuel at this point, though. Although, that would explain a whole lot.

Yea, I have a problem with the lead thing, otherwise the rest of the bill seemed ok.


Not a scientist but the lead in bullets is measured in grains which are fractions of a gram or ounce, in fact if Google isn't lying to me a typical 180 Gr 30-06 slug is about 0.4 oz of lead or for you non-imperials about 11 grams of lead. Unless you are hunting with a full auto that seems to be a case of "De minimis non curat lex" aka "the law should not concern itself with trifles"
 
2012-11-27 12:10:39 PM  

Sgt Otter: The U.S. military finally ditched it. I think the new rounds are made from some tungsten-tin alloy, but don't quote me on that.


It was bismuth-tin but I guess there were accuracy problems in high heat. So now they're working with an all copper slug.

The "problem" with all of these non-lead solutions is they're armor piercing under US law and people get all freaked out about making that legal. Well, you can have it for a rifle, but in pistol rounds it's a no-go.
 
2012-11-27 12:15:34 PM  

Magorn: Not a scientist but the lead in bullets is measured in grains which are fractions of a gram or ounce, in fact if Google isn't lying to me a typical 180 Gr 30-06 slug is about 0.4 oz of lead or for you non-imperials about 11 grams of lead. Unless you are hunting with a full auto that seems to be a case of "De minimis non curat lex" aka "the law should not concern itself with trifles"


Two points: a) The lead in line shot and weights is more significant, and always ends up at the bottom of a body of water, and b) presuming most shot is shotgun shells, and most shooting is at waterfowl, the lead is being distributed in the most environmentally hazardous way possible.

Here in Canada, there are a few limited circumstances where lead shot is still permitted. But given how restrictive that is, it's easier just to use shells with non-lead shot. It's not that big of a deal.
 
2012-11-27 12:20:08 PM  

unyon: Magorn: Not a scientist but the lead in bullets is measured in grains which are fractions of a gram or ounce, in fact if Google isn't lying to me a typical 180 Gr 30-06 slug is about 0.4 oz of lead or for you non-imperials about 11 grams of lead. Unless you are hunting with a full auto that seems to be a case of "De minimis non curat lex" aka "the law should not concern itself with trifles"

Two points: a) The lead in line shot and weights is more significant, and always ends up at the bottom of a body of water, and b) presuming most shot is shotgun shells, and most shooting is at waterfowl, the lead is being distributed in the most environmentally hazardous way possible.

Here in Canada, there are a few limited circumstances where lead shot is still permitted. But given how restrictive that is, it's easier just to use shells with non-lead shot. It's not that big of a deal.


Good points, both. Especially for shot where ballistic characterisitics aren't terribly important, I'm kinda suprised they haven't moved to some sort of hard plastic, or even glass shot. Given what China has done to the metals market, it would also seem a hell of a lot cheaper
 
2012-11-27 12:21:00 PM  

unyon: b) presuming most shot is shotgun shells, and most shooting is at waterfowl, the lead is being distributed in the most environmentally hazardous way possible.


That particular one has been banned. You can't hunt waterfowl with lead shot.
 
2012-11-27 12:24:52 PM  
They would have voted for it if their was a provision to perform CPR and zombie revitilization rituals on dead polar bears. 
 
2012-11-27 12:26:15 PM  
FTA: Sessions said he supported the overall bill but objected to spending on conservation programs that he said violated budget rules.

Such as? If it's important enough to object to, shouldn't that be included in the news reporting?

And while we're on the subject, would it have killed Mary Claire Jalonik to include some identifying detail about the bill -- a link, or a Senate bill number to search for on Thomas?
 
2012-11-27 12:28:09 PM  
Bipatisan:

spunfull.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-27 12:30:10 PM  
That tack might work out for the GOP in another time and place, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Obama will be ready, willing and able to exploit that intractability whenever possible. It's going to be a long four years...for the GOP.
 
2012-11-27 12:30:22 PM  
We really are reaching the point that Democrats could propose a bill stating breathing is essential, and Republicans would quit breathing just to be obstructionists.

Interesting.

/someone propose the Breathing is Essential bill!
 
2012-11-27 12:33:42 PM  
In Congress, it's going to be a long four years for some, and a short two years for others.
 
2012-11-27 12:33:52 PM  
I realize it is a minimal amount of lead, but given I plan on eating what I shoot, I prefer lead free. Personally I'd be fine with just banning lead bullets and forcing the industry to switch too alternatives. Also while we're at it, I want chalk ammo made easier to get so I can go shoot my buddies (while we are all wearing proper safety equipment of course).
 
2012-11-27 12:34:01 PM  
Obama: "As President of the United States I feel it is my duty to speak out AGAINST blowing one's own head off. Futher, I would like to advocate ..."

/sound of 56 million gunshots and 56 million THUDS as bodies hit the floor
//game over
 
2012-11-27 12:34:13 PM  
What a dumb farking bill in the first place...
 
2012-11-27 12:35:19 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: We really are reaching the point that Democrats could propose a bill stating breathing is essential, and Republicans would quit breathing just to be obstructionists.

Interesting.

/someone propose the Breathing is Essential bill!


"My fellow Americans, with this winter season coming upon us, I, Barack Hussein Obama, feel it is a matter of national importance to bring an issue to your attention. Do not, I repeat, do not eat yellow snow. It is not lemon-flavored. Thank you, and may God Bless America."
 
2012-11-27 12:35:46 PM  

Blues_X: Bipatisan:

[spunfull.files.wordpress.com image 320x240]


Damn you! You stole my post!
 
2012-11-27 12:36:35 PM  

whistleridge: That's the Party of "No" for you.

I honestly think the GOP is so heavily leveraged into their current 'win it all or refuse to do anything' mindset that a Democrat could propose a bill to the Tea Party sponsor a NRA-led lynch mob that had a legal mandate to drag Bill & Hilary, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Joe Biden, and Barack Obama into the street, stone them half to death,and then cover them in kerosene and set them alight to spend their last moments on Earth in soul-rending agony, and the GOP would vote no. Just because a Republican didn't author the bill.


El Fin, en uno.
 
2012-11-27 12:37:04 PM  

unyon: Magorn: Not a scientist but the lead in bullets is measured in grains which are fractions of a gram or ounce, in fact if Google isn't lying to me a typical 180 Gr 30-06 slug is about 0.4 oz of lead or for you non-imperials about 11 grams of lead. Unless you are hunting with a full auto that seems to be a case of "De minimis non curat lex" aka "the law should not concern itself with trifles"

Two points: a) The lead in line shot and weights is more significant, and always ends up at the bottom of a body of water, and b) presuming most shot is shotgun shells, and most shooting is at waterfowl, the lead is being distributed in the most environmentally hazardous way possible.

Here in Canada, there are a few limited circumstances where lead shot is still permitted. But given how restrictive that is, it's easier just to use shells with non-lead shot. It's not that big of a deal.


I'm not sure if this is state or federal law, but in Illinois, at least, it is illegal to use lead shot while hunting waterfowl. Most people use steel. There are some other options, but they're generally expensive.
 
2012-11-27 12:37:42 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: We really are reaching the point that Democrats could propose a bill stating breathing is essential, and Republicans would quit breathing just to be obstructionists.

Interesting.

/someone propose the Breathing is Essential bill!


With a $0.01 per breath tax on all income earners over $250k (government employees exempted), no doubt.
 
2012-11-27 12:37:46 PM  
If this wasn't GOP dick sauce for the dick goose, I don't know what is. And the fact they shot it down is god damn proof they are just total dicks.

//dicks
 
2012-11-27 12:37:58 PM  

meat0918: What a dumb farking bill in the first place...


Lead is kinda of a problem in watersheds. Especially from shot.
 
2012-11-27 12:38:34 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: FirstNationalBastard: We really are reaching the point that Democrats could propose a bill stating breathing is essential, and Republicans would quit breathing just to be obstructionists.

Interesting.

/someone propose the Breathing is Essential bill!

"My fellow Americans, with this winter season coming upon us, I, Barack Hussein Obama, feel it is a matter of national importance to bring an issue to your attention. Do not, I repeat, do not eat yellow snow. It is not lemon-flavored. Thank you, and may God Bless America."


"My fellow Americans, NEVER put salt in your eyes."

(everybody named Danny will be dead in a week)
 
2012-11-27 12:38:59 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: And the GOP likes to paint the Dems as the anti-gun party?! Whatever.


They also like to paint themselves as fiscally conservative.
 
2012-11-27 12:40:44 PM  

lordjupiter: Obama: "As President of the United States I feel it is my duty to speak out AGAINST blowing one's own head off. Futher, I would like to advocate ..."

/sound of 56 million gunshots and 56 million THUDS as bodies hit the floor
//game over


That's the sound of FREEDOM!
 
2012-11-27 12:41:22 PM  
God I cannot wait until the new Congress is sworn in. It won't be vastly improved, but this one has been one of the most absurd in memory. If Boehner is lucky he'll simply be forgotten down the road, but I think he's edging ever more closely towards "One of the worst Speakers ever."
 
2012-11-27 12:42:19 PM  

Magorn: Not a scientist but the lead in bullets is measured in grains which are fractions of a gram or ounce, in fact if Google isn't lying to me a typical 180 Gr 30-06 slug is about 0.4 oz of lead or for you non-imperials about 11 grams of lead. Unless you are hunting with a full auto that seems to be a case of "De minimis non curat lex" aka "the law should not concern itself with trifles"


The problem isn't so much with large(ish) projectiles like the 30-06, it's with shotgun pellets. They're much easier for wildlife to consume and there's a LOT more of them.

Also I think the proposal is for Federal regulations. States are still free to do as they please. Didn't look it up but I think MA has outlawed lead shot for decades now.
 
2012-11-27 12:43:02 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: "My fellow Americans, with this winter season coming upon us, I, Barack Hussein Obama, feel it is a matter of national importance to bring an issue to your attention. Do not, I repeat, do not eat yellow snow. It is not lemon-flavored. Thank you, and may God Bless America."


"Today, we are proud to announce S.R. 1024, the "Ted Kennedy Rich People Should Not Pay a Reasonable Amount of Taxes Resolution," which declares, as a matter of Democratic principle, that people making an extraordinarily large amount of money should not have to contribute to the cost of running a nation, but rather those costs should be extracted out of the poor and working class."

Budget crisis would be solved in a week, as Republicans scramble to soak the rich for all they're worth.
 
2012-11-27 12:43:23 PM  

unyon: Magorn: Not a scientist but the lead in bullets is measured in grains which are fractions of a gram or ounce, in fact if Google isn't lying to me a typical 180 Gr 30-06 slug is about 0.4 oz of lead or for you non-imperials about 11 grams of lead. Unless you are hunting with a full auto that seems to be a case of "De minimis non curat lex" aka "the law should not concern itself with trifles"

Two points: a) The lead in line shot and weights is more significant, and always ends up at the bottom of a body of water, and b) presuming most shot is shotgun shells, and most shooting is at waterfowl, the lead is being distributed in the most environmentally hazardous way possible.

Here in Canada, there are a few limited circumstances where lead shot is still permitted. But given how restrictive that is, it's easier just to use shells with non-lead shot. It's not that big of a deal.


Great, way to give the game away, now they all know about the gunssocialized fire sticks.
 
2012-11-27 12:43:56 PM  
Gerrymander:
Such as? If it's important enough to object to, shouldn't that be included in the news reporting?

Yeah, that's one sure way to find out that it's really too expensive - if they "forget" to mention the budget cost, it's probably expensive - or doesn't actually mention how much the final cost will really be.

It's S. 3525, by the way. There are a few direct allocations in it - $6.5 million here, $20 million there. It's the "Reauthorizations" part that gets interesting.

There's a bunch of things like "MANAGEMENT FEES- The Foundation may assess and collect fees for the management of amounts received under this paragraph." With no limitation of how big those fees might be.

Overall? It's another of those "hyperlink" bills, that have a lot of "modifications" of other Federal laws, that will take a couple of months for everyone to sort out before anyone knows what's really in it. The actual subject of the bill is the least important part, it's the "payload" buried somewhere in those modifications that is going to represent the real cost.
 
2012-11-27 12:44:46 PM  
"Sessions said he supported the overall bill but objected to spending on conservation programs that he said violated budget rules. Democrats argued that the bill also raised money for those provisions."

So what are these conservation programs? Are they turning ruts in driveways into wetlands or cleaning up trash in national parks? Isn't that kind of important to know before making a judgement?
 
2012-11-27 12:45:14 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: WTF? No, really, WTF?


yeah, i really thougth this was just an internet meme. this isn't an article from the onion right?
 
2012-11-27 12:45:35 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: FirstNationalBastard: We really are reaching the point that Democrats could propose a bill stating breathing is essential, and Republicans would quit breathing just to be obstructionists.

Interesting.

/someone propose the Breathing is Essential bill!

"My fellow Americans, with this winter season coming upon us, I, Barack Hussein Obama, feel it is a matter of national importance to bring an issue to your attention. Do not, I repeat, do not eat yellow snow. It is not lemon-flavored. Thank you, and may God Bless America."


Obama is reminding us that Winter is Coming?
 
2012-11-27 12:45:58 PM  
t0.gstatic.com
 
2012-11-27 12:46:50 PM  
A new era of Bapp-partisanship.
 
2012-11-27 12:47:11 PM  
This was a soft ball... And the Republicans failed to hit.

That, or the Dixiecrats are returning to the party.
 
2012-11-27 12:47:22 PM  
i159.photobucket.com
Oh, it's just Sen. Jeff Sessions of Alabama. He's been like that ever since those uppity "socialists" got to ride in the front of the bus.
 
2012-11-27 12:47:40 PM  
Shouldn't the NRA be boiling mad about this? The GOP just killed a bill that would have expanded hunting rights. Why aren't their lobbyists leaping into action? Why haven't I received a raging, "end of the Republic" screed of a newsletter that demands the removal of these Republican turncoats?
 
2012-11-27 12:48:13 PM  

minoridiot: unyon: Wait... Lead shot and weights are still legal in the US? I presume that you've taken it out of paint and fuel at this point, though. Although, that would explain a whole lot.

Yea, I have a problem with the lead thing, otherwise the rest of the bill seemed ok.


I should say that it my problem.

the lead thing. Steel kills just as well, stop using shot type as an excuse for why you're a shiatty aim.

//Not you particularly, you as in the yous that complain about not being able to use lead in a wetlands.
 
2012-11-27 12:49:47 PM  

Magorn: minoridiot: unyon: Wait... Lead shot and weights are still legal in the US? I presume that you've taken it out of paint and fuel at this point, though. Although, that would explain a whole lot.

Yea, I have a problem with the lead thing, otherwise the rest of the bill seemed ok.

Not a scientist but the lead in bullets is measured in grains which are fractions of a gram or ounce, in fact if Google isn't lying to me a typical 180 Gr 30-06 slug is about 0.4 oz of lead or for you non-imperials about 11 grams of lead. Unless you are hunting with a full auto that seems to be a case of "De minimis non curat lex" aka "the law should not concern itself with trifles"


One shotgun shell or a lead fishing weigh or two won't pollute to much. However, multiply that out by however many people will be hunting or fishing in a year, and you start to have a problem.

The military ditched it a while ago because they got tired of their rifle ranges being considered superfund sites. A regular day at a training range would have you at least 100 people firing 50 rounds each. One 5.56mm round might not be that much lead, but 5000 a day adds up real quick.
 
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