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(South Jersey Courier-Post)   Red light cameras have brought New Jersey a 20% increase in rear-end collisions and an additional $1 million in property damage per intersection   (courierpostonline.com) divider line 170
    More: Asinine, New Jersey, red light cameras, seat, prices, South Jersey, Gloucester Township  
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7183 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Nov 2012 at 1:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-27 01:52:40 PM  

StrandedInAZ: The speed limit on that road is 45 mph. Since they put a speed camera there, everyone slows down to well below 40 mph when they hit that stretch of road. Of course, it's also right after you come down a hill.


Swan down to River isn't that bad. Uphill is pain, though, due to idiots hitting the brakes in front of the delivery trucks.
 
2012-11-27 01:53:35 PM  

Kanemano: Gig103: I had to do an emergency stop from 50mph because the yellow at a particular intersection isn't long enough

Yellow light means S L O W D O W N.


3.bp.blogspot.com

What... ... ... does... ... ... a... ... ... yellow... ... ... light... ... ... mean?
 
2012-11-27 01:53:58 PM  

Kanemano: Gig103: I had to do an emergency stop from 50mph because the yellow at a particular intersection isn't long enough

Yellow light means S L O W D O W N.


Yes it does. Slowdown =/= stop though. Also, when most red light camera's are installed, the duration of the yellow light is reduced to increase revinue from the camera. People who have driven for a while are accustomed to a standard timing of a yellow light. When this is reduced, it leads to more 'red light running' and thus more tickets and more sudden stops. More sudden stops leads to more rear end collisions.
 
2012-11-27 01:58:42 PM  

bostonbd: Kanemano: Gig103: I had to do an emergency stop from 50mph because the yellow at a particular intersection isn't long enough

Yellow light means S L O W D O W N.

Yes it does. Slowdown =/= stop though. Also, when most red light camera's are installed, the duration of the yellow light is reduced to increase revinue from the camera. People who have driven for a while are accustomed to a standard timing of a yellow light. When this is reduced, it leads to more 'red light running' and thus more tickets and more sudden stops. More sudden stops leads to more rear end collisions.


Again, you should be prepared for the car in front of you to come to a sudden stop at all times - that means maintaining a safe following distance AT ALL TIMES. Why is this so farking difficult to understand?
 
2012-11-27 02:01:16 PM  

Hrist: I've personally witnessed countless numbers of people lock their brakes up the instant the light turns yellow


Anybody who does that, I believe some would based on my mom's driving, is an idiot and should not be driving.

Maybe they should install a visible timer showing the number of seconds the yellow light will last. If they're truly interested in public safety that should be no problem. All revenue should go to driver education programs and not into general town/state coffers. Problem solved.
 
2012-11-27 02:04:05 PM  

bostonbd: Kanemano: Gig103: I had to do an emergency stop from 50mph because the yellow at a particular intersection isn't long enough

Yellow light means S L O W D O W N.

Yes it does. Slowdown =/= stop though. Also, when most red light camera's are installed, the duration of the yellow light is reduced to increase revinue from the camera. People who have driven for a while are accustomed to a standard timing of a yellow light. When this is reduced, it leads to more 'red light running' and thus more tickets and more sudden stops. More sudden stops leads to more rear end collisions.


Most? Really? You're just pulling shiat out of your ass at this point.
 
2012-11-27 02:04:42 PM  
Politicians just love their money. I mean they REALLY love their money.
Given sufficient money, you can make a politician do anything you want. Especially if it is for "safety" (and" campaign contributions")

Scum in suits. Living in the lap of luxury.
 
2012-11-27 02:05:49 PM  

bostonbd: Kanemano: Gig103: I had to do an emergency stop from 50mph because the yellow at a particular intersection isn't long enough

Yellow light means S L O W D O W N.

Yes it does. Slowdown =/= stop though. Also, when most red light camera's are installed, the duration of the yellow light is reduced to increase revinue from the camera. People who have driven for a while are accustomed to a standard timing of a yellow light. When this is reduced, it leads to more 'red light running' and thus more tickets and more sudden stops. More sudden stops leads to more rear end collisions.


Actually, a yellow light means 'clear the intersection', one way or another.

gunther_bumpass: Again, you should be prepared for the car in front of you to come to a sudden stop at all times - that means maintaining a safe following distance AT ALL TIMES. Why is this so farking difficult to understand?


Because some people live in the real world where maintaining a huge gap between cars isn't always possible.
 
2012-11-27 02:07:21 PM  
clyph: "I know (or at least hope) you're being sarcastic"

Quite. Any "stimulus" effect would be as illusionary as the revenue.
 
2012-11-27 02:07:44 PM  

swaxhog: Around here they have been modifying pedestrian walk lights with a digital countdown timer which makes it very easy to see when the light is about to change and make a judgement call on whether you should begin stopping or make a run for it. Very handy and avoids the anxiety of knowing there's a red light camera and only seeing a flashing no walk light which could be anywhere from 1-10 secs before the light changes.


I love those so very very much.

Get rid if me having to guess when it's gonna turn
 
2012-11-27 02:08:32 PM  

LiberalEastCoastElitist: Hrist: I've personally witnessed countless numbers of people lock their brakes up the instant the light turns yellow

Anybody who does that, I believe some would based on my mom's driving, is an idiot and should not be driving.

Maybe they should install a visible timer showing the number of seconds the yellow light will last. If they're truly interested in public safety that should be no problem. All revenue should go to driver education programs redesign the unsafe, camera-requiring intersections and not into general town/state coffers. Problem solved.

 

Actually, I find intersections with crosswalks that have signals that count down to be perfect for knowing if I will be able to cleanly make the intersection or if I should start slowing down knowing I won't make it.
 
2012-11-27 02:09:53 PM  

bostonbd: Kanemano: Gig103: I had to do an emergency stop from 50mph because the yellow at a particular intersection isn't long enough

Yellow light means S L O W D O W N.

Yes it does. Slowdown =/= stop though. Also, when most red light camera's are installed, the duration of the yellow light is reduced to increase revinue from the camera. People who have driven for a while are accustomed to a standard timing of a yellow light. When this is reduced, it leads to more 'red light running' and thus more tickets and more sudden stops. More sudden stops leads to more rear end collisions.


Why would you be doing 50 MPH approaching an intersection, obviously this is not on the highway, this is city driving, he also had enough time to actually stop the vehicle from 50 MPH, so 100 feet if optimal more likely 150 feet.
 
2012-11-27 02:11:33 PM  
I thought the problem with drivers in the northeast (based on my travels there) was that when the cross-traffic is driving at 35-40mph, dumbasses making a right on red dawdle through their turn at 12mph and accelerate to the speed limit after about 200 yards after rounding the corner.
 
2012-11-27 02:12:36 PM  

Land Ark: Actually, I find intersections with crosswalks that have signals that count down to be perfect for knowing if I will be able to cleanly make the intersection or if I should start slowing down knowing I won't make it.


YOU HAVE FIFTEEN SECONDS TO CROSS! YOU HAVE TEN SECONDS TO CROSS! FIVE! ... FOUR! ...

i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-27 02:14:36 PM  
Know how to fix rear end collisions? Stop tailgating and pay attention to where you're going.

If the car in front of you slams on his brakes and you hit him, it is 100% entirely your own fault.
 
2012-11-27 02:15:38 PM  

ShamanGator: Sure doesn't say much for the over all level of driving skills in New jersey. If your to close for the car in front of you to stop at a red light then you my friend are driving like an idiot.

Of course we cant be honest about these things, like blaming the morons who run the lights in the first place. With out them we would not need the cameras. And any one who rear ends a car stopping for a light should not be driving in the first place.


Never been to New Jersey eh? It is often not possible to follow at a safe distance as another car will cut in between you and the car in front of you. The little gambit about not following too close doesn't help when the car behind you is too close and puts you in a sandwich.

/lived in NJ for 20 years
//traffic sucks worse here in NYC
 
2012-11-27 02:15:54 PM  

Kanemano: Why would you be doing 50 MPH approaching an intersection, obviously this is not on the highway, this is city driving, he also had enough time to actually stop the vehicle from 50 MPH, so 100 feet if optimal more likely 150 feet.


The speed limit on this 4 lane road is 45mph, and the flow of traffic is 50mph. A yellow light means to use caution. It is more cautious to continue through a light at 50mph when I'm 100 feet from the intersection since a BMW's stopping distance from 60mph is about 170 feet. And the yellow light on this intersection is shorter than the traffic lights before and after it, intentionally to increase revenue.

Georgia did it right, and said that yellow lights need to be 4 seconds long if there's going to be a redlight camera, because that gives people ample time to safely stop. And so many people were able to safely stop that the cameras didn't generate enough revenue
 
2012-11-27 02:16:15 PM  

gunther_bumpass: Again, you should be prepared for the car in front of you to come to a sudden stop at all times - that means maintaining a safe following distance AT ALL TIMES. Why is this so farking difficult to understand?


You can talk all day about how people should drive, but until you deal with how people actually do drive, you aren't dealing with reality.
 
2012-11-27 02:17:06 PM  
But hey, keep voting in democrat...
 
2012-11-27 02:17:20 PM  

Jument: Putting aside the issue of whether or not cameras are good, people who slam on their brakes and cause a collision because of red light cameras ARE FARKING IDIOTS.

Do you really think risking the destruction of your car and your health is worth it to avoid a petty ticket? Grow a brain, morans.


The guy slamming on his brakes isn't causing the collision; the asshole tailgating him is.
 
2012-11-27 02:18:54 PM  

Pocket Ninja: No, the real question is how many countless lives have actually been saved by this. Consider this scenario:


Here's the pitch, and the swing... and it's outta here. Nicely done, as usual.
 
2012-11-27 02:24:03 PM  

jjorsett: Land Ark: Actually, I find intersections with crosswalks that have signals that count down to be perfect for knowing if I will be able to cleanly make the intersection or if I should start slowing down knowing I won't make it.

YOU HAVE FIFTEEN SECONDS TO CROSS! YOU HAVE TEN SECONDS TO CROSS! FIVE! ... FOUR! ...

[i47.tinypic.com image 320x200]


"Ring ring!"
Hello?
Is it about my cube?
 
2012-11-27 02:25:30 PM  

max_pooper: It should not even be a problem. If you travel at the legally allotted sleep limit and pay attention you should never be put in a position to have to choose from slamming on the breaks and having the person behind you ram into you or run a red light.


Except that yellow signal timing has been shortened. I'm not saying this applies in New Jersey's case, buuuut....New Jersey shut down 63 of the cameras because the towns failed to certify that the yellow signal timing was correct (according to New Jersey's new formula).
 
2012-11-27 02:27:38 PM  
Anyone else live in a place that shortens yellows, so you're nearly guaranteed to be a violator, and $165 poorer? With no realistic way to "fight" it in court?
 
2012-11-27 02:27:38 PM  

Kanemano: bostonbd: Kanemano: Gig103: I had to do an emergency stop from 50mph because the yellow at a particular intersection isn't long enough

Yellow light means S L O W D O W N.

Yes it does. Slowdown =/= stop though. Also, when most red light camera's are installed, the duration of the yellow light is reduced to increase revinue from the camera. People who have driven for a while are accustomed to a standard timing of a yellow light. When this is reduced, it leads to more 'red light running' and thus more tickets and more sudden stops. More sudden stops leads to more rear end collisions.

Why would you be doing 50 MPH approaching an intersection, obviously this is not on the highway, this is city driving, he also had enough time to actually stop the vehicle from 50 MPH, so 100 feet if optimal more likely 150 feet.


Route 70 & Springdale Road in Cherry Hill. NJ Route 70 has a 45 or 50 MPH approach speed at the intersection with a red light camera.
 
2012-11-27 02:29:15 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Most? Really? You're just pulling shiat out of your ass at this point.


Yes, most. 63 out of 85 traffic lights in NJ were shown to not be correctly calibrated to meet the state law. 74% seems like most to me.

Link
 
2012-11-27 02:29:58 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: gunther_bumpass: Again, you should be prepared for the car in front of you to come to a sudden stop at all times - that means maintaining a safe following distance AT ALL TIMES. Why is this so farking difficult to understand?

You can talk all day about how people should drive, but until you deal with how people actually do drive, you aren't dealing with reality.


So much this. There is a vast difference between driving defensively and driving like a jack-hole that causes wrecks to occur. You cannot drive like someone is always going to completely slam on their brakes. You know what happens when you do that? You leave just enough a gap and are going just slow enough that the guy behind or next to you decides to pass you real quick and cut in front of you causing a huge accident. Driving the speed limit? Lol now that too is funny. If the guy behind you is going faster than you and you can safely get over a lane, let them pass.
 
2012-11-27 02:30:21 PM  

Snarfangel: But collisions are paid for by drivers and insurance companies, while government gets splits that sweet camera loot with the private camera contractor.


FTFY

/hates red-light cams
 
2012-11-27 02:38:33 PM  

Skraeling: swaxhog: Around here they have been modifying pedestrian walk lights with a digital countdown timer which makes it very easy to see when the light is about to change and make a judgement call on whether you should begin stopping or make a run for it. Very handy and avoids the anxiety of knowing there's a red light camera and only seeing a flashing no walk light which could be anywhere from 1-10 secs before the light changes.

I love those so very very much.

Get rid if me having to guess when it's gonna turn


Here in Sweden, we had the lights go from green, green+yellow to yellow and then red. But we had to change that in the nineties because it didn't follow international standards...
 
2012-11-27 02:43:48 PM  
You want to actually make intersections safer? Install those countdown timers so people can see from a block away whether they're going to make the light or not and adjust accordingly. Then set a nationwide standard for yellow light lengths per road speed (25 mph = 2.5 sec, 35 mph = 3 sec, etc, or at least something CONSISTENT) so people know what to expect. At that point you can put the cameras in if you want.
 
2012-11-27 02:48:19 PM  

bostonbd: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Most? Really? You're just pulling shiat out of your ass at this point.

Yes, most. 63 out of 85 traffic lights in NJ were shown to not be correctly calibrated to meet the state law. 74% seems like most to me.

Link


Indeed. However, once the first one was discovered, they stopped issuing tickets from all of those 63 cameras, voided all the tickets that had been issued from them, and even gave refunds to people who had already paid for tickets from those cameras. They've all been recertified and are back in use.

So yeah, there are lots of reasons to hate red light cameras, but in the case of New Jersey, intentionally shortening yellow lights to increase revenue isn't one of them
 
2012-11-27 02:53:40 PM  
Yea, see the corrupt red light cameras are a byproduct of the no-new-taxes-no-matter-what attitude in this country. We can't raise taxes to reflect increasing costs so instead it costs $100 to license your dog and you have red light cameras everywhere.

/$213 to register my car in NYC for 2 years
 
2012-11-27 02:54:11 PM  
Is this the thread where I'm supposed to blame red light cameras for the fact that stupid people follow too closely and drive too fast?
 
2012-11-27 02:56:23 PM  

ShamanGator: Sure doesn't say much for the over all level of driving skills in New jersey. If your to close for the car in front of you to stop at a red light then you my friend are driving like an idiot.


If you have the prescribed "safe" distance between you and the car in front of you (two seconds, plus 1 second for every 10 miles over 30) then in any heavy traffic area in NJ you will be continually cut off.
 
2012-11-27 02:58:01 PM  

Fubegra: Snarfangel: But collisions are paid for by drivers and insurance companies, while government gets splits that sweet camera loot with the private camera contractor.

FTFY

/hates red-light cams


Contractors who lobby the ever loving hell across the states to have their for profit devices installed regardless of what the "safety" concerns are....hint, your local government does not care about anyone's safety as long as it's not cutting into their budget.

you have pee hands: You want to actually make intersections safer? Install those countdown timers so people can see from a block away whether they're going to make the light or not and adjust accordingly. Then set a nationwide standard for yellow light lengths per road speed (25 mph = 2.5 sec, 35 mph = 3 sec, etc, or at least something CONSISTENT) so people know what to expect. At that point you can put the cameras in if you want.


Yes those countdown timers make things a lot safer, now you have people gunning it to make the light. Seriously go stand by one on a busy street and listen to the engines rev when the timer gets short.
 
2012-11-27 03:09:49 PM  
Rear-enders mentioned are probably quite a lot less lethal than the T-bones those cameras prevent.
 
2012-11-27 03:10:41 PM  

Coming on a Bicycle: Rear-enders mentioned are probably quite a lot less lethal than the T-bones those cameras prevent.


They don't prevent T-Bones. No one running a light 10 seconds late is looking for cameras, and no one running a light 1 second late is T-Boning anyone.
 
2012-11-27 03:12:09 PM  

IRQ12: Yes those countdown timers make things a lot safer, now you have people gunning it to make the light. Seriously go stand by one on a busy street and listen to the engines rev when the timer gets short.


I don't see any more people gunning through them than there already were already through yellows.
 
2012-11-27 03:20:15 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: bostonbd: Kanemano: Gig103: I had to do an emergency stop from 50mph because the yellow at a particular intersection isn't long enough

Yellow light means S L O W D O W N.

Yes it does. Slowdown =/= stop though. Also, when most red light camera's are installed, the duration of the yellow light is reduced to increase revinue from the camera. People who have driven for a while are accustomed to a standard timing of a yellow light. When this is reduced, it leads to more 'red light running' and thus more tickets and more sudden stops. More sudden stops leads to more rear end collisions.

Most? Really? You're just pulling shiat out of your ass at this point.


Actually, he's totally correct. Red light systems are typically owned and operated by private companies like Lockheed-Martin. There's a profit-sharing scheme in place and the yellow lights are definitely shortened to increase the chances of a red light violation. They also expand the zone that counts as "intersection" so there are times when stopping completely, but still being within this zone will trigger the camera and generate a ticket. In Lockheed-Martin's case, if the city reduces the yellow light to 1.5 seconds, then the city's share of the ticket revenue is 50%. If they do not reduce it and keep it at a much safer (and recommended) 4 seconds, then the city's share plummets to 10%. Obviously, this is a money making scheme in every way, and shortened yellow lights are designed to increase the number of red light violations even in circumstances where ordinarily there would be no safety issues.

What's worse, in many contracts the city has to PAY Lockheed for intersections where the cameras are installed that are UNDER PERFORMING. That is, if they don't write a certain number of tickets each month, then the city pays a fine to Lockheed. How to ensure you write the requisite number of tickets? Change the rules of course.

How do I know? I have a family member who works at Lockheed on the marketing team that sells the systems to municipalities. Everyone at Lockheed Martin knows it's a scam, and his marketing materials designed for Lockheed to use when selling the system to cities use the words "profit" and "revenue" more than the word "safety" by about a 6:1 ratio. But in brochures designed and distributed (by Lockheed, of course) for the police to hand out to citizens, the word "safety" is used exclusively and the word "profit" doesn't appear at all.

Rigged? You be the judge.
 
2012-11-27 03:23:44 PM  

you have pee hands: You want to actually make intersections safer? Install those countdown timers so people can see from a block away whether they're going to make the light or not and adjust accordingly. Then set a nationwide standard for yellow light lengths per road speed (25 mph = 2.5 sec, 35 mph = 3 sec, etc, or at least something CONSISTENT) so people know what to expect. At that point you can put the cameras in if you want.


There's two competing standards for yellow signal timing. MUTCD and IETF. Although both have been weakened in recent years, there are other factors than speed limit that need to be taken into account (and I argue that approach speed, not speed limit, should be used as previous versions of the standard have used). You have to have human reaction time, you have to account for the width of the intersection, you have to account for special features at intersections. There is no single correct number.

I think Georgia's approach was a good one. You can use the traffic cameras, but you have to time the yellow signal to one full second more than the formula in the MUTCD. When Georgia did this, red light running at those intersections dropped 80%. The cameras became unprofitable, the intersections became safer, and the cameras were removed.
 
2012-11-27 03:26:26 PM  
 
2012-11-27 03:28:06 PM  

you have pee hands: IRQ12: Yes those countdown timers make things a lot safer, now you have people gunning it to make the light. Seriously go stand by one on a busy street and listen to the engines rev when the timer gets short.

I don't see any more people gunning through them than there already were already through yellows.


Well I guess we both only have anecdotes but if you think about the chance for excessive speed is a lot more possible when you see a counter at 15 1000feet ahead than when you have 1-2 seconds for a yellow. For a yellow in most scenarios you will be just within stopping distance or free to go when you see it.
 
2012-11-27 03:31:14 PM  

JerkStore: Sadly, red light cameras are a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Sure, we can all agree that running red lights is bad, but it's nowhere near an epidemic and a vast, vast majority of drivers stop for red lights.


One of the unwritten rules of driving in Jacksonville FL is to wait two to three seconds after you light turns green for the drivers to finish running their red light.
 
2012-11-27 03:31:25 PM  

bostonbd: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Most? Really? You're just pulling shiat out of your ass at this point.

Yes, most. 63 out of 85 traffic lights in NJ were shown to not be correctly calibrated to meet the state law. 74% seems like most to me.

Link


Sorry, I didn't know you were only referring to one state.
 
2012-11-27 03:33:02 PM  

Pocket Ninja: No, the real question is how many countless lives have actually been saved by this. Consider this scenario:

Bobby Ericson, 9, is playing in his yard. He kicks the softball and runs out into the street to retrieve it. What he doesn't know is that Douglas Macavoy, 34, is speeding up the residential street, which has a 25-mile-per-hour limit, at 43 miles per hour. Mr. Macavoy is going that fast because he just finished running the red light at the previous intersection, which had started turning yellow even as he approached it. However, seeing no camera on the pole, he floored the accelerator and ran the light. Now, as he rounds the Pete's Plumbing van parked on the curve, he's shocked to find little sandy-haired Bobby crouching in the street right in front of him. And, splat, just like that, two lives are irreparably destroyed -- Bobby is paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of his life. Mr. Macavoy is in jail. His wife leaves him after a few months after starting an affair with his probation officer. She takes his children. Despondent, alone, he attempts to take his own life by jumping out a window in a ramshackle motel, but he lands on a pedestrian and breaks her neck. Now he's in jail again, only for murder this time. And all he can think on those long nights as he's gripped in Bubba's sweaty embrace is: If only I had stopped for that light. If only there had been a camera, I would have stopped for that life.

Would you seriously, subby, weigh a little bit of property damage, a bent fender, against these two shattered lives. What's one million dollars when compared to infinite suffering and shattered lives? Next time, remember Mr. Macavoy's sad tale before you post.


So wait, you get a probation officer while you're still in jail?
 
2012-11-27 03:46:06 PM  

ShamanGator: Of course we cant be honest about these things, like blaming the morons who run the lights in the first place. With out them we would not need the cameras.


You're mistaken. We don't need the cameras for any reason.
 
2012-11-27 03:48:24 PM  

JerkStore: Sadly, red light cameras are a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Sure, we can all agree that running red lights is bad, but it's nowhere near an epidemic and a vast, vast majority of drivers stop for red lights. When it happens, something awful may result, but it's also like saying that sometimes airplanes crash, so we should outlaw airplanes. Statistically, red-light running is a non-event.

However, it is BIG money and a cause the public will blindly get behind. Never mind that it changes the dynamics of accidents around the light and that they are specifically designed to cause MORE people to run red lights (and thus drive up revenue).

It's a money grab, pure and simple. There are no statistics in favor of red light cameras except those the companies supply to municipalities telling them about the money they can collect from them.


The lights are sometimes retimed when those are installed and small "No turn on red"signs are known to appear in an area where right on red has always been legal. Now? Nope! Disputing the ticket is pointless.Pay us now citizen!.
They are a goddamn scam and the insurance companies and politicans are in bed with each other.
Why yes, I got one of those.
 
2012-11-27 03:57:34 PM  

Pocket Ninja: No, the real question is how many countless lives have actually been saved by this. Consider this scenario:

Bobby Ericson, 9, is playing in his yard. He kicks the softball and runs out into the street to retrieve it. What he doesn't know is that Douglas Macavoy, 34, is speeding up the residential street, which has a 25-mile-per-hour limit, at 43 miles per hour. Mr. Macavoy is going that fast because he just finished running the red light at the previous intersection, which had started turning yellow even as he approached it. However, seeing no camera on the pole, he floored the accelerator and ran the light. Now, as he rounds the Pete's Plumbing van parked on the curve, he's shocked to find little sandy-haired Bobby crouching in the street right in front of him. And, splat, just like that, two lives are irreparably destroyed -- Bobby is paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of his life. Mr. Macavoy is in jail. His wife leaves him after a few months after starting an affair with his probation officer. She takes his children. Despondent, alone, he attempts to take his own life by jumping out a window in a ramshackle motel, but he lands on a pedestrian and breaks her neck. Now he's in jail again, only for murder this time. And all he can think on those long nights as he's gripped in Bubba's sweaty embrace is: If only I had stopped for that light. If only there had been a camera, I would have stopped for that life.

Would you seriously, subby, weigh a little bit of property damage, a bent fender, against these two shattered lives. What's one million dollars when compared to infinite suffering and shattered lives? Next time, remember Mr. Macavoy's sad tale before you post.


I'm pretty sure there are four shattered lives in your story.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-27 03:57:53 PM  
gwowen

Suppose on average 40% of non rear-end accidents cause injuries and 20% of rear-end accidents do.

Before: 100 accidents, 50% rear-enders, 30 injury accidents.

After: 140 accidents, 70% rear-enders, 30 injury accidents.

You know how many injury accidents you have, the same before and after. If the goal of the cameras was to reduce injuries, they failed. Some ticket camera analyses (e.g. Virginia) will call this a success because rear end accidents are less serious.  But the non-serious accidents were already removed from the counting. What's left are the serious accidents.
 
2012-11-27 03:59:48 PM  

Some 'Splainin' To Do: gunther_bumpass: Again, you should be prepared for the car in front of you to come to a sudden stop at all times - that means maintaining a safe following distance AT ALL TIMES. Why is this so farking difficult to understand?

You can talk all day about how people should drive, but until you deal with how people actually do drive, you aren't dealing with reality.


Get bent, buttplug. I've been driving for 25 years - most of that in heavy city commute conditions. You know how many times
I've rear-ended someone? Once. When I was 16, and I learned my lesson with a steering wheel jammed into my larynx. It's really very simple - get your head out of your ass and you'll hit fewer things.
 
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