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(South Jersey Courier-Post)   Red light cameras have brought New Jersey a 20% increase in rear-end collisions and an additional $1 million in property damage per intersection   (courierpostonline.com) divider line 170
    More: Asinine, New Jersey, red light cameras, seat, prices, South Jersey, Gloucester Township  
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7177 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Nov 2012 at 1:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-27 04:00:37 PM

Slaxl: tallguywithglasseson: Replace them all with roundabouts!

//runs

I love roundabouts.

That is all.


You want to see people freak for no reason? Just watch your city, county or state transportation department propose a roundabout. You'd think they were going to build a child molester halfway house in the neighborhood with how angry people get.

Get over it folks: roundabouts are more efficient and safer than intersections.
 
2012-11-27 04:06:59 PM

Jument: Putting aside the issue of whether or not cameras are good, people who slam on their brakes and cause a collision because of red light cameras ARE FARKING IDIOTS.

Do you really think risking the destruction of your car and your health is worth it to avoid a petty ticket? Grow a brain, morans.


Do you really think that putting a camera that issues false tickets, and doesn't improve safety at an intersection is worth your constituencies health? Just so the local government can get a bit more money from the people while filling the pockets of some corporation, at the expense of our health?
 
2012-11-27 04:09:01 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: bostonbd: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Most? Really? You're just pulling shiat out of your ass at this point.

Yes, most. 63 out of 85 traffic lights in NJ were shown to not be correctly calibrated to meet the state law. 74% seems like most to me.

Link

Sorry, I didn't know you were only referring to one state.


OK, this article lists cities in other states that were caught reducing the length of the yellow light. It seems fairly prevalent if multiple states have had to discharge tickets and write laws requiring a minimum length of time the lights shall be yellow.

The cameras are not safety devices but purely revenue generators.
 
2012-11-27 04:13:03 PM

Jument: petty ticket


Petty ticket? In CA they're close to $500!

What happened to, "Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted." ?

I've said it in every red camera thread I run across on FARK, and I'll say it again:

The real solution to the mostly benign "red light running" that the cameras are timed to catch? Something that gives motorists knowledge of how much time is remaining on a green light. Such as:

i01.i.aliimg.com 

Too bad that cities take the short sighted approach and choose SCAMeras over improvements that would actually make for a far less stressful driving experience.
 
2012-11-27 04:13:31 PM
A New Jersey girl is the LAST thing you want on camera.
spotadouche.com
 
2012-11-27 04:20:48 PM

Slaxl: tallguywithglasseson: Replace them all with roundabouts!

//runs

I love roundabouts.

That is all.


Medford, WI just installed two roundabouts on State Hwy 13. They are only about a half-mile apart and the second one intersects only with the farking Wallmart parking lot entrance.

Really.
Was that necessary? 
I'll bet the semi drivers don't love them.
 
2012-11-27 04:23:19 PM
Go the speed limit, keep safe distance and pay attention to what's going on on the road, and you won't rear end anyone.
Run a red light, pay $1000 fine, do 100 hours community service and lose your license for 6 months...for the first offense.
Problem solved.
 
2012-11-27 04:24:38 PM

mjohnson71: Slaxl: tallguywithglasseson: Replace them all with roundabouts!

//runs

I love roundabouts.

That is all.

You want to see people freak for no reason? Just watch your city, county or state transportation department propose a roundabout. You'd think they were going to build a child molester halfway house in the neighborhood with how angry people get.

Get over it folks: roundabouts are more efficient and safer than intersections.


Jughandles are better.

But circles and jughandles are each far better than the crap they put in PA.

NJ has some of the best laid out roads in the East Coast.
 
2012-11-27 04:33:51 PM
I am glad to see so many people aware that the local governments are retarding yellow lights/changing intersection boundaries to profit more from tickets. I have been saying these things are nothing more than a scam for years now.
Since when is the onus on the accused to prove innocence? Why isn't this a violation of due processes?
The Communistwealth of VA tried this crap years back, a report was generated that showed they did nothing but increase rear-end collisions and "serious accidents" showed little to no improvement, but then they changed their minds and put it back in place. The red light cameras are supposedly only provisional and pending analysis on if they are to become a permanent nuisance.
The cameras don't do a damn thing other than make people slam on their brakes suddenly. Someone that is determined to run a red light doesn't give a rat's ass if there is a camera there or not.

I don't know what this jackass upthread is going on about with "Don't follow to closely" bullshiat. I tell you what, have someone cut in front of you and slam on their damn brakes for a red light camera and lets roll the dice to see if your brakes and tires stop as they are supposed to. Better hope the roads are dry and free of debris, your brakes are warmed up, the tires are warm and free of any sand, dirt, gravel that could impede traction, your ABS is working properly, you have proper air pressure in your tires...you really wanna play this game? There is more than just "time to stop" that affects braking distance. Suffice it to say, there is just shiat that is out of your control ESPECIALLY on city streets. The red light cameras cause undue harm and serve only to punish the innocent while the contractor and local government laugh all the way to the bank.

Great thing about VA though is you don't have to pay those dumbass tickets by law until you are delivered the summons by hand. I mean...you COULD pay it early, but make em work for that money. The more people that do that, the less effective this charade becomes.
 
2012-11-27 04:34:01 PM

Leeds: NJ has some of the best laid out roads in the East Coast.


New Jersey has an irrational love of shared on/off ramps with crossing traffic. I guess it's really that they're just old roads and it's impossible to fix the interchanges without using a whole lot more space than there is available, but there are certainly some very bad roads in Jersey. The "stop every 15 miles for another toll" system on the GS Parkway is terrible, too.
 
2012-11-27 04:37:41 PM
StrandedInAZ: There is a major road that I have to take. It leads to my development. The speed limit on that road is 45 mph. Since they put a speed camera there, everyone slows down to well below 40 mph when they hit that stretch of road. Of course, it's also right after you come down a hill.

I'm thinking... west Valencia? Is that in a 45 zone? Otherwise it sounds like La Cholla (the one just north of River, not the one just south of River), but that one and Swan don't get a whole lot of serious slowing like that IME.

(Now having typed that, it'll be some completely different part of town.)

I'm sure they got lots of tickets generated when the cameras first went up, but we have them all over town now, and I can't remember the last time I saw someone get flashed by one.

I see it fairly regularly at Speedway/Kolb and Grant/Swan, both runners and speeders. Not so much at Tanque Verde/Grolb, which is why there's occasionally cops running radar just south of there on Kolb. Getting flashed for speeding is dumb on the driver's part anyway, since they have a 10 mph leeway. (Empirically tested.)

We vote on every other thing in this silly state. I don't understand why we can't get a referendum on the ballot to get rid of the cameras.

Because government isn't bad when it's fueling your authoritarian fetish.

Less snarkily, I don't remember, did that happen to the expressway ones in Phoenix, or was it a simple DPS budget decision?
 
2012-11-27 04:40:34 PM

mjohnson71: Slaxl: tallguywithglasseson: Replace them all with roundabouts!

//runs

I love roundabouts.

That is all.

You want to see people freak for no reason? Just watch your city, county or state transportation department propose a roundabout. You'd think they were going to build a child molester halfway house in the neighborhood with how angry people get.

Get over it folks: roundabouts are more efficient and safer than intersections.


It isn't the roundabouts I hate, it's those mountains that come out of the sky and just stand there.
 
2012-11-27 04:50:06 PM

Krieghund: moothemagiccow: DubyaHater: Perhaps you shouldn't speed and tailgate people. Typically, if one follows traffic laws, the risk of an accident is minimal.

The yellow light duration is reduced and people are either terrified of running the red or anxious to make the light on green and yellow. The combination is not good. They're also inexplicably slow in moving forward on the green, but that's normal.

I don't think you understood what he was saying so I'll repeat it: "you shouldn't speed and tailgate people. Typically, if one follows traffic laws, the risk of an accident is minimal."


Well maybe if you smell marshmallows sticks aren't your bag
 
2012-11-27 05:13:34 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Only problem is the rear ends and the property damage is all private while the revenue generated is all going to the guberment. There is no incentive for the guberment to change.


Generally at least 60% of the income is going to the red light company.

gwowen: Except rear-end collisions (which tend to be low speed) are up massively and total collisions (including T-bone crashes, the ones that tend to be high speed) are down so there is only a very slight climb in total collisions.


Source? Preferably one for New Jersey? I say this because I've seen studies that show no decreases in side impact/injuries, and some that show modest improvements. In many cases the worst accidents happen when an impaired driver totally blows through an intersection, and I don't see red light cameras fixing that.
 
2012-11-27 05:16:52 PM

Job Creator: Yea, see the corrupt red light cameras are a byproduct of the no-new-taxes-no-matter-what attitude in this country. We can't raise taxes to reflect increasing costs so instead it costs $100 to license your dog and you have red light cameras everywhere.

/$213 to register my car in NYC for 2 years


Down here in Mississippi, it cost over $500 to register a Mitsubishi Outlander for one year...registration costs are based on the value of the vehicle. Unique way to do it I guess.
 
2012-11-27 05:31:03 PM

gunther_bumpass: Some 'Splainin' To Do: gunther_bumpass: Again, you should be prepared for the car in front of you to come to a sudden stop at all times - that means maintaining a safe following distance AT ALL TIMES. Why is this so farking difficult to understand?

You can talk all day about how people should drive, but until you deal with how people actually do drive, you aren't dealing with reality.

Get bent, buttplug.


Wow! Well that escalated quickly.

Best of luck working on that temper, buddy.
 
2012-11-27 05:48:41 PM
It figures....

but its still easier to install a bunch of cameras and some crummy, probably-buggy software than to actually pay humans to watch for these kinds of traffic violations.

Replace people with cameras and machines and you get what you ask for
 
2012-11-27 05:52:38 PM

SurelyShirley: Live in the boondocks, go the speed limit, keep safe distance and pay attention to what's going on on the road, and you won't rear end anyone.


FTFY

It is impossible to "keep safe distance" when other cars keep merging into it. It is called "bumper to bumper traffic" for a reason.
 
2012-11-27 05:52:46 PM
Bobby Ericson, 9, is playing in his yard. He kicks the softball and runs out into the street to retrieve it.

I've identified the problem already... what do I win?
 
2012-11-27 06:10:40 PM
See the Safety.
Worship the Safety.
All believe in the safety.
That there is Safety, I tell you.

/what profit?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-11-27 06:19:57 PM
Down here in Mississippi, it cost over $500 to register a Mitsubishi Outlander for one year...registration costs are based on the value of the vehicle.

Here the registration is flat rate but the RMV sends registration info to cities who send you tax bills. The municipal tax rate is fixed by state law, or at least the maximum rate is and everybody charges the maximum rate. It would be much simpler to collect taxes at registration time.
 
2012-11-27 06:30:44 PM

Job Creator: Yea, see the corrupt red light cameras are a byproduct of the no-new-taxes-no-matter-what attitude in this country. We can't raise taxes to reflect increasing costs so instead it costs $100 to license your dog and you have red light cameras everywhere.

/$213 to register my car in NYC for 2 years


Mine is about $500 a year in AZ. My car insurance may be cheaper than yours, though. The first time I registered a car here, I'd moved from PA, where it was $36 a year. Here they base it on the value of your car, so if you have an expensive ride, you're going to pay through the nose for registration.
 
2012-11-27 06:30:55 PM

JacksonBryan: Job Creator: Yea, see the corrupt red light cameras are a byproduct of the no-new-taxes-no-matter-what attitude in this country. We can't raise taxes to reflect increasing costs so instead it costs $100 to license your dog and you have red light cameras everywhere.

/$213 to register my car in NYC for 2 years

Down here in Mississippi, it cost over $500 to register a Mitsubishi Outlander for one year...registration costs are based on the value of the vehicle. Unique way to do it I guess.


ZAZ: Down here in Mississippi, it cost over $500 to register a Mitsubishi Outlander for one year...registration costs are based on the value of the vehicle.

Here the registration is flat rate but the RMV sends registration info to cities who send you tax bills. The municipal tax rate is fixed by state law, or at least the maximum rate is and everybody charges the maximum rate. It would be much simpler to collect taxes at registration time.


I have to say, your states suck. $100, 2 year registration, no taxes or inspections required.
 
2012-11-27 06:32:07 PM

StrandedInAZ: Job Creator: Yea, see the corrupt red light cameras are a byproduct of the no-new-taxes-no-matter-what attitude in this country. We can't raise taxes to reflect increasing costs so instead it costs $100 to license your dog and you have red light cameras everywhere.

/$213 to register my car in NYC for 2 years

Mine is about $500 a year in AZ. My car insurance may be cheaper than yours, though. The first time I registered a car here, I'd moved from PA, where it was $36 a year. Here they base it on the value of your car, so if you have an expensive ride, you're going to pay through the nose for registration.


Yeah, but PA has inspections, and I know very few people who seem to be able to just get the inspection done without something magically being wrong with their vehicle.
 
2012-11-27 06:41:30 PM

devildog123: Yeah, but PA has inspections


So do we.

(Which reminds me.)
 
2012-11-27 06:50:10 PM
Sounds like New Jersey has a problem with drivers not using appropriate following distances.
 
2012-11-27 06:50:12 PM

Leeds: NJ has some of the best laid out roads in the East Coast.


2/10
 
2012-11-27 06:51:31 PM

you have pee hands: I guess it's really that they're just old roads and it's impossible to fix the interchanges without using a whole lot more space than there is available


Yet they've got the room for a million goddamn jughandles and roundabouts.
 
2012-11-27 06:53:13 PM

ZAZ: The next question is, are the new statistics accurate or trimmed to make the cameras look better?


Given the source, I'm more inclined to believe it's inflated by some reporter who doesn't know how to use a traffic signal and got popped.
 
2012-11-27 06:58:11 PM

Jument: Putting aside the issue of whether or not cameras are good, people who slam on their brakes follow too closely and cause a collision because of red light cameras ARE FARKING IDIOTS.

Do you really think risking the destruction of your car and your health is worth it to avoid a petty ticket just to pretend you are drafting? Grow a brain, morans.


What you meant to say.
 
2012-11-27 07:05:28 PM

Gig103: Snarfangel: But collisions are paid for by drivers and insurance companies, while government gets that sweet camera loot.

Yup. Around here (AZ) I watch idiots tap their brakes on green lights "just in case" it's about to turn yellow. I had to do an emergency stop from 50mph because the yellow at a particular intersection isn't long enough (no surprise there either).


Let AZDOT know if that yellow phase is less than 6.5 seconds. (speed in mph divided by 10 plus 1.5 is the minimum time allowed in seconds for yellow lights). Otherwise, try increasing your following distance and travel at or below the speed limit.
 
2012-11-27 07:05:58 PM

Baloo Uriza: Sounds like New Jersey has a problem with drivers not using appropriate following distances.


Sounds like you have never driven in an area where using the "proper" following distances makes it impossible to merge, nor can you maintain it without being cut off.
 
2012-11-27 07:14:31 PM
The law of unintended consequences...

How duz it werk?
 
2012-11-27 07:16:07 PM

This text is now purple: Leeds: NJ has some of the best laid out roads in the East Coast.

2/10


Obviously someone missed the words "East Coast."
 
2012-11-27 07:17:02 PM

Contribution Corsair: And is it bad that I took his tale as a reason why we should allow more speeding to teach kids to stay out of the street?


Yes, probably. While the scenario is a good example of a time to stay out of the street, the street is how we all get where we're going. Eventually, they need to get someplace, too.
 
2012-11-27 07:19:57 PM

Chevello: Jument: Putting aside the issue of whether or not cameras are good, people who slam on their brakes follow too closely and cause a collision because of red light cameras ARE FARKING IDIOTS.

Do you really think risking the destruction of your car and your health is worth it to avoid a petty ticket just to pretend you are drafting? Grow a brain, morans.

What you meant to say.


Oh look, I think we found the farkstick that pulls into the left lane of an expressway at 50mph because he is a frustrated traffic cop.

/What I meant to say
 
2012-11-27 07:28:36 PM

StrandedInAZ: Job Creator: Yea, see the corrupt red light cameras are a byproduct of the no-new-taxes-no-matter-what attitude in this country. We can't raise taxes to reflect increasing costs so instead it costs $100 to license your dog and you have red light cameras everywhere.

/$213 to register my car in NYC for 2 years

Mine is about $500 a year in AZ. My car insurance may be cheaper than yours, though. The first time I registered a car here, I'd moved from PA, where it was $36 a year. Here they base it on the value of your car, so if you have an expensive ride, you're going to pay through the nose for registration.


I pay $825/year for comprehensive coverage on a luxury car in Manhattan. Figure that's pretty cheap but then again we don't drive our cars much, I put about 4-5k miles on the car per year so maybe that figures into it. Paid $1300/yr in NJ on the same car.
 
2012-11-27 07:32:51 PM

JerkStore: Sadly, red light cameras are a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Sure, we can all agree that running red lights is bad, but it's nowhere near an epidemic and a vast, vast majority of drivers stop for red lights. When it happens, something awful may result, but it's also like saying that sometimes airplanes crash, so we should outlaw airplanes. Statistically, red-light running is a non-event.


No, statistically, plane crashes in the US are a non-event. Terrorism in the US is a non-event. 30,000 traffic fatalities and six figures of serious injuries per year in the US is, by comparison, substantial, especially since you can bet all of the serious injuries and a significant chunk of the fatalities blew vast wads of cash on the least effective health care system per dollar spent going (sure, we have fantastic healthcare, but it's inaccessibly expensive for most people, meaning now they're in debt for life or passing that care plus profit margin onto the taxpayer). Most incorporated cities and towns in the US have way fewer than 30,000 people in them. Sadly, this country doesn't have the balls to do the right thing, and that would be to make it harder to get a license, require regular (every other year at least) skills testing, make it easier to lose your license, and make the penalties for driving without a valid license severe. We're not talking people riding around on bicycles, weight combined with the rider, 300 pounds, that will bounce off damn near anything that isn't brittle or squishy and consequences for misuse tend to be immediate and painful almost exclusively for the operator. We're talking about two ton weapons capable of killing off entire farmer's markets at once while protecting the operator in a cushy, soundproofed box.
 
2012-11-27 08:02:59 PM

Kanemano: Gig103: I had to do an emergency stop from 50mph because the yellow at a particular intersection isn't long enough

Yellow light means S L O W D O W N.


Actually, it means "Clear the intersection: Stop if you can, finish crossing if you can't." Same as a flashing hand on pedestrian signals, or a yellow light on bicycle signals.
 
2012-11-27 08:07:57 PM

JacksonBryan: Job Creator: Yea, see the corrupt red light cameras are a byproduct of the no-new-taxes-no-matter-what attitude in this country. We can't raise taxes to reflect increasing costs so instead it costs $100 to license your dog and you have red light cameras everywhere.

/$213 to register my car in NYC for 2 years

Down here in Mississippi, it cost over $500 to register a Mitsubishi Outlander for one year...registration costs are based on the value of the vehicle. Unique way to do it I guess.


California also goes by vehicle value.
In beautiful Oregon, on the other hand, registration fees are $86 for two years for any passenger vehicle.
Then again, you get to live in Mississippi, at least you got that goin' for you.
 
2012-11-27 08:09:54 PM

Baloo Uriza: Let AZDOT know if that yellow phase is less than 6.5 seconds. (speed in mph divided by 10 plus 1.5 is the minimum time allowed in seconds for yellow lights). Otherwise, try increasing your following distance and travel at or below the speed limit.


Awesome, I will actually time it and do that, thank you.
 
2012-11-27 08:44:45 PM
Again, by paying attention to signals and the traffic around you, you can avoid nearly every situation mentioned in this thread.

I love the boogeyman story about someone cutting you off to slam on their brakes for a yellow light bit. Honestly now - how often does that happen to you? If it's yellow and there's enough room in front of you for a car to squeeze in, then have enough room to slam on his brakes to stop, there was enough room and time for you to start slowing down for the yellow in the first place.

At least have the balls to own your lousy driving habits - don't blame them on other people.
 
2012-11-27 09:08:16 PM

Gig103: Baloo Uriza: Let AZDOT know if that yellow phase is less than 6.5 seconds. (speed in mph divided by 10 plus 1.5 is the minimum time allowed in seconds for yellow lights). Otherwise, try increasing your following distance and travel at or below the speed limit.

Awesome, I will actually time it and do that, thank you.


No problem! I'd link you directly to the US Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, and the Arizona Addendum to the same, but I'm just far enough away from Tulsa that Ma Bell has only been talking about stringing us line for the last 80 years, they haven't actually done it yet. So T-Mobile is both my wireless carrier and my home internet provider. EDGE is slow...
 
2012-11-27 09:14:52 PM
I recently got a ticket from a red light camera. I actually don't mind...they sent pictures and a video that showed I clearly ran the light even though at the time I thought it was still yellow. If a cop had pulled me over I'd have been pissed. I have no complaint that I was ticketed for running the light and I'm glad it doesn't go on my record.
 
2012-11-27 09:47:25 PM
If you guys go to thenewspaper.com, often linked on the main page, they have a lot of studies that show that just adding an extra second or two to a yellow light drastically reduces accidents. There is even a move to make a minimal yellow duration an official federal traffic rule.

Some cities have been found to reduce the yellow duration at intersections with red-light cameras, then had to reimburse every ticket issued because it most often didn't follow states rules.
And let's not mention the cameras that became unprofitable once the yellow got an extra second or two...
 
2012-11-27 09:56:41 PM

SurelyShirley:
Then again, you get to live in Mississippi, at least you got that goin' for you.


Hmm...I see sarcasm in that statement. Moved here for work, hopefully moving back to PA early in 2013.
 
2012-11-27 09:56:59 PM

dustygrimp: The law of unintended consequences...

How duz it werk?


Well, first you start by asking how it works.
 
2012-11-27 09:58:44 PM

Job Creator: Chevello: Jument: Putting aside the issue of whether or not cameras are good, people who slam on their brakes follow too closely and cause a collision because of red light cameras ARE FARKING IDIOTS.

Do you really think risking the destruction of your car and your health is worth it to avoid a petty ticket just to pretend you are drafting? Grow a brain, morans.

What you meant to say.

Oh look, I think we found the farkstick that pulls into the left lane of an expressway at 50mph because he is a frustrated traffic cop.

/What I meant to say


Um, nope but thanks for playing. I think we have a few lovely parting gifts for you. How about a nice aggressive driving ticket and a personal injury lawsuit? Ohh, and let's not forget the wonderful increase in insurance rates because everyone knows that in almost all circumstances, a rearend accident is the fault of the rear car. Have fun out there but remember, not everyone knows the length of every yellow they are approaching.

\new to this "trolling" thing. How'm I doing?
 
2012-11-27 10:02:41 PM
Getting rear ended at low speed is safer then being T-boned at high speed.

/keep farking that chicken
//while drinking a coffee, eating and texting.
 
2012-11-27 10:08:20 PM

Mokmo: There is even a move to make a minimal yellow duration an official federal traffic rule.


The fed beat you to it. Take a look at the manual on uniform traffic control devices, and keep in mind the yellow light guidelines are nowhere near new.
 
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