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(The New York Times)   It turns out the American Psychiatric Association can't figure out how to deal with subby's ex-wives either   (nytimes.com) divider line 118
    More: Scary, American Psychiatric Association, Thinking Clearly, narcissistic personality disorder, clinical practice, self-help, Ares, diagnostic, Binghamton  
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12195 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Nov 2012 at 11:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-27 12:57:14 PM  
There is no such thing as a "personality". There are only disorders and syndromes.
 
2012-11-27 12:58:20 PM  

QueenMamaBee: I work with someone I swear has histronic personality disorder. She took two days off because she had to have her dog put down and actually told me that her dogs are just like kids.... that it's like a child dying. First time in my life I was speechless.


I'm kinda disturbed when people *aren't* upset when their pets die. Makes me wonder if they'd kill me/husband/wife/random neighbor with that "had to be done" attitude.
 
2012-11-27 12:59:35 PM  

doubled99: There is no such thing as a "personality". There are only disorders and syndromes.


you sound like a disciple of BF Skinner
 
2012-11-27 01:00:45 PM  

JackieRabbit: Personality disorders are quite real and not just made up.


There's no difference between "real" and "made up" in this field. You define a set of traits that you don't like and *bam!* you've just made up a real personality disorder.  Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't help people who have problems, but what is an isn't a problem is defined by people, within a given social context. That's why these guys can't agree on any of it.
 
2012-11-27 01:02:21 PM  

FarkinHostile: Sorry, but I don't buy it. When things were good, they were great, so she knew her actions had significance and when it suited her, she was wonderful. After I left her, she acknowledged her "problems" as she tried to get me to take her back, while doing all of the things that made me leave her.
She knew. She controlled it when it suited her.
In all honesty, I could have been diagnosed with a personality disorder when I was a teen/young man. I'm not the most "sane" fellow, and I struggle with my issues every day. The difference is I try. You can program your programming if you really want to and work on it.


I know, I'm in the same boat--but you and I would never have been diagnosed with a PD. Because we have insight into our actions--we have a conscience, and even if we did awful things, we KNEW that we were farking up. Personality disorders don't really know this. They can say the right things, they learn how to act like they have a conscience, but they don't really understand it.

I was a drunk when I was younger. Exhibited a lot of the characteristics of a borderliner, and was in complete denial about my problem. But I was able to change because I hurt others, and I knew it. Then I had severe PTSD (thanks, Hubby!) for several years--it looks a hell of a lot like BPD. (I thought that was ironic, that my psycho ex turned me into someone just like him.) And while I was in the relationship, I did a lot of things that were pretty farked up, because he trained me to.

But see, the very fact that I can write those words means that I don't have a personality disorder. Because I can see that stuff by myself and I can change, and I can do it for myself, not because I'm trying to manipulate someone. They can't. They can control it to a degree, they can say the right things so that they can continue to leech off others, and they can even hide it completely in front of most of the world, but deep down, they know that there's nothing wrong with them and that YOU are the problem.

My mother had a minor personality disorder--she farked up us kids pretty good, but in her later years, when I stood up to her and told her a few things, she could see it. She changed her behavior towards me, not just to manipulate me, but because she actually felt bad about how she'd raised us. Shortly before she died, she told me, "I wish I'd been a better mother" and she meant it--it wasn't just something that her brain told her was the right thing to say to stay on my good side.

My ex wouldn't even be capable of admitting anything like that. Even today, he doesn't understand why I hate him, and he doesn't understand why his son doesn't like him. Even though he threatened to kill both of us, and kept me in court for 12 years over custody. He still thinks that we should all be good buddies, and why won't I talk to him?

Oh, and he also was all over that "I have problems and i"m working to fix them" stuff after I left him. He'd come over with roses for me (creepy as fark, but then, he was a stalker) then leave and go talk to his lawyer about the best way to have me declared an unfit mother, so he could have full custody. His lawyer told him what to say, and like most of them, he is a pathological liar. He never got it and he never will. And now, since we've rejected him, he's moved right on to another family and has some completely different personality for them. I have no idea what he tells them about his past and I don't care. I know it's a lie.
 
2012-11-27 01:06:46 PM  

Bad_Seed: JackieRabbit: Personality disorders are quite real and not just made up.

There's no difference between "real" and "made up" in this field. You define a set of traits that you don't like and *bam!* you've just made up a real personality disorder.  Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't help people who have problems, but what is an isn't a problem is defined by people, within a given social context. That's why these guys can't agree on any of it.


It isn't mental illness unless it's harming their quality of life. Sit in a room with some individuals with diagnosed personality disorders and it won't take long for you to see how harmful these are for themselves and/or their family/friends/coworkers. Yes, human cognition/personality is a very complex subject but then again so are many other areas of medicine. That doesn't mean such individuals should be ignored. You're implying these individuals are getting loaded onto trucks and being lobotomized. If anything, identifying such individuals can assist them in helping structure their lives in a way that they can maximize their self-actualization.
 
2012-11-27 01:10:00 PM  

cryinoutloud: I know, I'm in the same boat--but you and I would never have been diagnosed with a PD. Because we have insight into our actions--we have a conscience, and even if we did awful things, we KNEW that we were farking up. Personality disorders don't really know this. They can say the right things, they learn how to act like they have a conscience, but they don't really understand it.


Not necessarily. They can certainly know that they're acting wrong. Remember feelings come from thoughts.

Like when I was suffering from depression, my thoughts kept repeating things that made me feel depressed. I did realize this, but had no idea how to make it stop.

And sometimes a person with a personality disorder can realize that something is wrong, or that they are acting wrong. And that in turn, can make them feel depressed.
 
2012-11-27 01:10:12 PM  

FarkinHostile: cryinoutloud: I have no problem with you guys divorcing your loony ex (I divorced mine too) but it's not just an "excuse." It's how they think, it's how their brains are wired. When they appear to have no idea how they have hurt or offended you, they really don't.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. When things were good, they were great, so she knew her actions had significance and when it suited her, she was wonderful. After I left her, she acknowledged her "problems" as she tried to get me to take her back, while doing all of the things that made me leave her.

She knew. She controlled it when it suited her.

In all honesty, I could have been diagnosed with a personality disorder when I was a teen/young man. I'm not the most "sane" fellow, and I struggle with my issues every day. The difference is I try. You can program your programming if you really want to and work on it.


This right here.
But, remember, when things are going well, us humans tend to take that for granted and stop trying. It takes a degree of self-introspection that I have observed VEEERY FEW people have the ability to start, much less continue on.
Plus patterning. It's so easy to slip backwards either out of control, or into control but going back to destructive behavior. Guess that's where 'old habits die hard with a vengeance' comes from.
Oh, waitaminnit...

=^D

I do think of myself as a work in progress. We all should, really- strive for better. Hard to accomplish in all we do at once, but chipping away constantly over the years produces results.

I'm just not content with stimulus~response~stimulus~response living. Not understanding when things around you swirl out of control? Why do these things always happen to me?
That's a hell I can't live in.
 
2012-11-27 01:10:30 PM  

QueenMamaBee: I work with someone I swear has histronic personality disorder. She took two days off because she had to have her dog put down and actually told me that her dogs are just like kids.... that it's like a child dying. First time in my life I was speechless.


That doesn't sound strange to me at all.
 
2012-11-27 01:14:08 PM  

Skyrmion:
That doesn't sound strange to me at all.


Not to me either. You don't have to feel the same way in order to validate other peoples' feelings.
 
2012-11-27 01:14:29 PM  
Rindred: "A psych will tell you that if you're capable of honestly questioning your own sanity, you're probably sane"

Seems like that old chestnut only applies to psychotics.
I mean, how else would a sociopath develop a workable facsimile of "normal", than by seriously questioning the difference between themselves and "normal"?

Or does that disqualify as "honestly", because we're defining "honestly" tautologically to exclude said sociopaths?
 
2012-11-27 01:17:05 PM  

Bad_Seed: JackieRabbit: Personality disorders are quite real and not just made up.

There's no difference between "real" and "made up" in this field. You define a set of traits that you don't like and *bam!* you've just made up a real personality disorder.  Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't help people who have problems, but what is an isn't a problem is defined by people, within a given social context. That's why these guys can't agree on any of it.


I don't know of any personality disorders that are just made up from personality traits someone decided they didn't like. There are only 10 of them and they were all identified many decades ago. It isn't a case that the experts cannot agree on what constitutes the disorders, but rather how to logically classify them and standardize on diagnostic methods. Right now, this is something of a muddle. What I think you are confusing this with is the "disorder of the day" phenomenon, in which practitioners lock in on a disorder and diagnose everyone with it. ADHD was the first of these and today's darling diagnosis is autism. It isn't that the disorders are made up, but rather that doctors will cherry-pick some classic symptoms and see them in people who do not suffer from the disorder. Hence, brat children, with behavioral issues get a diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome instead of discipline.
 
2012-11-27 01:20:50 PM  

Doom MD: It isn't mental illness unless it's harming their quality of life. Sit in a room with some individuals with diagnosed personality disorders and it won't take long for you to see how harmful these are for themselves and/or their family/friends/coworkers. Yes, human cognition/personality is a very complex subject but then again so are many other areas of medicine. That doesn't mean such individuals should be ignored. You're implying these individuals are getting loaded onto trucks and being lobotomized. If anything, identifying such individuals can assist them in helping structure their lives in a way that they can maximize their self-actualization.


I'm not. I'm pointing out the inherent subjectivity here. The unspoken assumption in TFA, and in most discussion is that this is "just medicine", that it's not inherently different from physical illness, and that all you have to do is find the "right" diagnosis and treatment. That's bollocks, they can't even agree on the right definition and they never will, because we're dealing with a completely different kind of beast.

I would suggest that this sort of thing is taken out of medical doctors' hands completely, but there's probably no other institution that can deal with this sort of thing in today's world (especially if you're not religious).
 
2012-11-27 01:26:42 PM  

finnished: Not necessarily. They can certainly know that they're acting wrong. Remember feelings come from thoughts.
Like when I was suffering from depression, my thoughts kept repeating things that made me feel depressed. I did realize this, but had no idea how to make it stop.
And sometimes a person with a personality disorder can realize that something is wrong, or that they are acting wrong. And that in turn, can make them feel depressed.


My ex did not, although he was a pretty bad case. He had psychotic breaks, and even when he didn't, he could re-write events so quickly and so well that he really never knew when he did anything wrong. he beat the crap out of me once, and by the time the police arrived, he'd already re-written it so that it was mostly my fault, and even if he did hit me, I goaded him into it, and it was all my fault anyway, since i was going to take the kid and leave the country, and well, a man loses control (I'm sure those of you with psycho exes know this story.)

The way my shrink explained it (who also tried to manipulate my ex, but failed), people with personality disorders feel so badly when they do something wrong--I mean, so, so badly that they might kill themselves--that their brains will re-write anything to make it so that they are not at fault. This makes sense, since a lot of people think that personality disorders are caused by abuse and shaming kids when they are very young. They develop a defense mechanism so that they never have to feel that shame anymore, and it's a good one--they're usually farked for life. On the other hand, they feel shame and worthlessness constantly, since their parents farked them up, and that's why it's a tricky thing to tell them that they have a serious mental disorder--most of the time, it just isn't done. They get diagnosed with depression or anxiety or something so they'll come to counseling, but they don't get told that they have a personality disorder.

I don't claim to understand it all, but then I don't understand alcoholism either, and I am one. But I've had way too many of these people in my life, and I see how they are. I suppose some of the less severe cases have some insight, but just lie and twist things around a lot so that they aren't at fault, even while sort of knowing what they're doing. (And you know if you tell yourself a lie enough times, it becomes true, even if you don't have a PD.) But some of them cannot take the blame for anything, no matter what they did or how often it's pointed out to them. They literally can't remember what happened in certain incidents if it reflects badly on them. Their brain makes up a whole new story to protect them.
 
2012-11-27 01:29:42 PM  
www.empireonline.com

/he's been right the entire time
 
2012-11-27 01:31:17 PM  

Bad_Seed: Doom MD: It isn't mental illness unless it's harming their quality of life. Sit in a room with some individuals with diagnosed personality disorders and it won't take long for you to see how harmful these are for themselves and/or their family/friends/coworkers. Yes, human cognition/personality is a very complex subject but then again so are many other areas of medicine. That doesn't mean such individuals should be ignored. You're implying these individuals are getting loaded onto trucks and being lobotomized. If anything, identifying such individuals can assist them in helping structure their lives in a way that they can maximize their self-actualization.

I'm not. I'm pointing out the inherent subjectivity here. The unspoken assumption in TFA, and in most discussion is that this is "just medicine", that it's not inherently different from physical illness, and that all you have to do is find the "right" diagnosis and treatment. That's bollocks, they can't even agree on the right definition and they never will, because we're dealing with a completely different kind of beast.

I would suggest that this sort of thing is taken out of medical doctors' hands completely, but there's probably no other institution that can deal with this sort of thing in today's world (especially if you're not religious).


You would be shocked at how much of medicine is subjective and up for argumentation. It's a common routine on the wards to see arguing over whether Patient X is having a CHF exacerbation vs. COPD exacerbation vs. pneumonia. There is an art to medicine, but it is one based in science. Part of adhering to empirical principles is being willing to change in light of new evidence. Plugging in numbers to puke out a diagnosis is cookie-cutter medicine and if that was all there was to it you could have middle schoolers do it for a fraction of the cost. The years of rigorous training do serve to internalize information but also to refine a sense of clinical judgement and pattern recognition. The fact there is so much debate over this subject is a good thing and will lead to progress.
 
2012-11-27 01:31:30 PM  

JackieRabbit: I don't know of any personality disorders that are just made up from personality traits someone decided they didn't like.


Eh, all of them? Have you actually ready any of the definitions?
 
2012-11-27 01:39:59 PM  
My brother is going through something like this with his MiL. She is bipolar and has had many violent outbursts. At one I was called over to pick up my niece that was 6 at the time and bring her to my parents. I have never seen that look on her face before it was a confused, scared shiatless look. She latched on to me and was so happy she made it to my parents. My brother and his wife have banned the MiL from the house if she is off her meds and once even just told her to not bother ever coming over. But recently "God healed her" and she has been back over to the house. Im lucky I get to avoid her. My SiL brother was diagnosed with bipolar disorder I think within the last 5 years. Its been odd seeing the transformation he has made. He quit drinking which for his condition is fine, but he is taking the train to crazy town with his mom. He was teaching at a religious school and quit because they didnt teach enough Jesus. He annouced he is no longer celebrating christmas for whatever reason. I think he is a few years away from joing some cult, heading to the middle of nowhere and do a Waco style compound. I worry for my brother and his family at times.
 
2012-11-27 01:45:20 PM  
Now for my story, like anyone cares...

I have a couple of mood disorders (anxiety and major depression) and personality disorders (avoidant personality with dependent and schizoid personality traits).

I'm actually pretty embarrassed to type this all out, but at least I'm trying to get some help with them. I've only ever had one meaningful relationship, and I let my disorders get the better of me and I farked it up. In my mid-30's, I'm pretty pissed at myself that I didn't do this in my mid-20's or even sooner.

On the other hand, she lied to me about her sex addiction (it went to the extent that she took money for sex) and other things in her past (in my eyes, your past matters...I don't care how much you think you've changed). She was, however, pretty up front about her meth use. I'll give her that. I think it's because she quit on her own about a year and a half before we met and she was proud of it. You have to be very strong to quit on your own.

Unfortunately, she was traumatized sexually at a young age and was diagnosed with PTSD and Adult ADD (which scares me because it's being treated with dextroamphetamine). I think due to these things, she avoided intimacy and sex with me at all costs because I don't think she could handle the emotion. Maybe I like to think that, because the alternative is that I was just that awful that a sex addict would only have sex with me a couple times in the span of a year.

So, I dunno. At the end of the day, I feel like our issues didn't mix, especially considering that they remained unresolved. She kept telling me how much work she was doing and consistently berated me for not doing enough. But, of course, she never came clean to me about her past. I only found out about that after we broke up. I sort of figured that would be part of the "work she was putting in", as in not being a compulsive liar.

As for me, I only became motivated when it was already too late to salvage anything. I think it's because I thought going into it, albeit wrongly in retrospect, that if I could just find someone who could actually love and care about me and some good things actually started happening, it would change my world view. And, it did for a while, and then things started snowballing, and I wound up being more of a mess emotionally and mentally than going into it. I don't know if I hit "rock bottom", so to speak, but I felt like it became evident that if this unhealthy shiat went on for too much longer, I would never be able to ever dig myself out of it.

So, as selfish as it sounds, I have to work on me and hope that she has a good life as well even if I'll never know, as I have cut off all contact. The therapist I'm seeing and the self-help book I'm reading seem to endorse this approach, even though I was made to feel quite guilty about how immature I was being.

And then I found five dollars.
 
2012-11-27 01:48:30 PM  

KrispyKritter: there are so many facets to mankind's behavior the psychiatric field seems reluctant to classify. personality disorders is painfully obvious and overdue for recognition. most people are very complex multi layered little buffets of varied input/output. i hope mankind lives the modern life long enough to really sort things out.

as for folks that have to jump on the medication hatred bandwagon. first, you don't have to take it. second, many people who need medication are instead chasing their demons with alcohol and street drugs and doing themselves absolutely no good. third, if you yourself found relief or had someone in your life that was helped by mental health related medication you would know first hand it works and its not just sold for fun and profit.


The problem is that psychiatry is so unscientific. What looks like inappropriate rage to one practitioner might be the doctor's own inability to understand the source of anger or the patient's inability to express its cause. It's all so nebulous.

I bet everyone knows somebody who engages in rigid thinking, or is needy or self-centered or tells lies. I think its called being human.
 
2012-11-27 01:49:29 PM  

cryinoutloud: stuff...


It looks like you're confusing the broad category term "Personality Disorder" with a specific disorder, perhaps Borderline Personality Disorder, or BPD. Some of the other personality disorders, like Avoidant Personality Disorder, would not fit your description at all.

Just me being pedantic.

/somewhere between avoidant and dependent
//extremely isolated
///not enjoying life
 
2012-11-27 01:59:15 PM  

Hamster On A Wheel: QueenMamaBee: I work with someone I swear has histronic personality disorder. She took two days off because she had to have her dog put down and actually told me that her dogs are just like kids.... that it's like a child dying. First time in my life I was speechless.

People with kids tells me the same thing about their pets all the time. I figure they know best what they feel and it's not up to me to judge.

Anyway...that being said...subby, seriously, getting divorced once is unfortunate, getting divorced more than once means you have an issue. Think about it. Hey, at least no one can accuse you of having commitment issues, as I have been so accused. Rightfully so, really.


Check out table 6

It looks like about 20% of the population in the upper age ranges has been married twice, with about 5% of the total population married twice and divorced. You could argue that getting divorced twice means subby has issues, but he's not alone. In my case the woman I met at age 19 was a completely different person by age 36, and we both needed a change.

My second wife slowly developed (over a dozen years) into an alcoholic, among other negative behaviors once she had kids and stopped working. Things got really bad, and the choice was was to either enable her bad behavior by providing a roof over her head, or walk. I begged her repeatedly to get help, but she refused to even consider it, so I was left with no option but to leave. The last I heard my money ran out and she conned some other poor naive geek into letting her move in.

So, if being unable to spot latent personality disorders and alcoholism is a problem, then I guess I do have "issues".  When you look at it from the perspective of a lifetime, having multiple serious relationships makes sense for different phases of life.
 
2012-11-27 02:02:00 PM  

Bad_Seed: JackieRabbit: I don't know of any personality disorders that are just made up from personality traits someone decided they didn't like.

Eh, all of them? Have you actually ready any of the definitions?


All of them in great detail. And I've had patients with each of them. Believe me, they ARE NOT made up. They are quite real.
 
2012-11-27 02:08:35 PM  

czei: When you look at it from the perspective of a lifetime, having multiple serious relationships makes sense for different phases of life.


You're right. But, divorcing multiple times because you've grown apart and divorcing multiple times because you picked a crazy person - again - ??? You have to ask yourself, why am I drawn to crazy people? Or they to me, or whatever.
 
2012-11-27 02:16:38 PM  

cryinoutloud: But some of them cannot take the blame for anything


Exactly. They will even go on internet forums to post one-sided walls of text about how all of their problems are solely caused by their "crazy ex" in an attempt to seek approval for their own behavior. It is obvious that these people will never accept responsibility for any of their failures.
 
2012-11-27 02:28:27 PM  
As long as they don't try to make being an asshole a disorder I'm ok with this
 
2012-11-27 02:35:11 PM  

the_rhino: They also can't formulate a coherent and logical style guide either.

/Chicago MLA, ftw


FTFY
 
2012-11-27 02:51:01 PM  

JackieRabbit: Bad_Seed: JackieRabbit: I don't know of any personality disorders that are just made up from personality traits someone decided they didn't like.

Eh, all of them? Have you actually ready any of the definitions?

All of them in great detail. And I've had patients with each of them. Believe me, they ARE NOT made up. They are quite real.


Of course they're real, the psychiatrists made them up!
 
2012-11-27 03:27:14 PM  

cryinoutloud: FarkinHostile: kokomo61: ....and I know what it's like to be married to someone with BPD. It IS an excuse.
Bingo.
/Divorced her when she refused to go to counseling

I have no problem with you guys divorcing your loony ex (I divorced mine too) but it's not just an "excuse." It's how they think, it's how their brains are wired. When they appear to have no idea how they have hurt or offended you, they really don't. Their brains don't work right. You can't just say, "well, they don't want to take responsibility for their actions." They don't know how--they don't even know what it means, or how you'd go about doing something like that.

And therapy, unless they're a very mild case, doesn't work. (And even if they are capable of change, it takes years and years of very hard work, something that people with PDs don't like, because, of course--none of it is their fault!) Skip the therapy and just dump them.

Hell, my shrink told me not only that he couldn't work with my ex, he said that he couldn't even tell him that he had a mental disorder--it would cause a psychotic break and put us in more danger. Because they really do not know that there's anything wrong with them. It would be like me coming up to you and saying, "Hey guys, guess what--you have a serious mental disorder, and all those bad things that keep happening to you? You did it all. Everyone hates you, and they have good reasons for it."

So fine if you booted these people from your life, but it's a little more complicated than they just don't want to take responsibility for themselves.


ALL OF THIS. Now imagine it's your Mom or your sister or brother. It's amazing how many psychiatrist will not DIAGNOSE them because it may cause a psychotic break. Well ya know what. Maybe that psychotic break is what they need.
 
2012-11-27 03:36:44 PM  

Fark Rye For Many Whores: QueenMamaBee: I work with someone I swear has histronic personality disorder. She took two days off because she had to have her dog put down and actually told me that her dogs are just like kids.... that it's like a child dying. First time in my life I was speechless.

I'm kinda disturbed when people *aren't* upset when their pets die. Makes me wonder if they'd kill me/husband/wife/random neighbor with that "had to be done" attitude.


Well, if it had to be done, it had to be done... The real issue is what would seem like an adequate reason to them.
 
2012-11-27 03:38:05 PM  

kokomo61: I think my sister had it nailed when she said 'Borderline Personality Disorder' is just an excuse for bad behavior.

If you can blame it on a 'disorder', then TaDa! No personal responsibility!


very true. We have become the society of "It's not my fault!"
 
2012-11-27 03:41:34 PM  

kokomo61: ....and I know what it's like to be married to someone with BPD. It IS an excuse.


....crap....


well, sometimes
 
2012-11-27 03:42:22 PM  

Bad_Seed: JackieRabbit: Bad_Seed: JackieRabbit: I don't know of any personality disorders that are just made up from personality traits someone decided they didn't like.

Eh, all of them? Have you actually ready any of the definitions?

All of them in great detail. And I've had patients with each of them. Believe me, they ARE NOT made up. They are quite real.

Of course they're real, the psychiatrists made them up!

No one here knows the history of psychiatry like Bad Seed does
www.rick.com
 
2012-11-27 03:47:33 PM  

screwzloos: It looks like you're confusing the broad category term "Personality Disorder" with a specific disorder, perhaps Borderline Personality Disorder, or BPD. Some of the other personality disorders, like Avoidant Personality Disorder, would not fit your description at all.
Just me being pedantic.
/somewhere between avoidant and dependent
//extremely isolated
///not enjoying life


Yeah, right. I'm just counting the "bad" ones, the ones I had trouble with. I don't know much about the other cluster of them--the ones where the people don't drive everyone else crazy too. I guess I'm talking about borderline, narcissistic, OC, and histrionic mostly.

And if you're trying to classify someone--it isn't necessary, but if it interests you to do so--they can all overlap a lot. My ex was a mix of at least three of them.

umad: cryinoutloud: But some of them cannot take the blame for anything
Exactly. They will even go on internet forums to post one-sided walls of text about how all of their problems are solely caused by their "crazy ex" in an attempt to seek approval for their own behavior. It is obvious that these people will never accept responsibility for any of their failures.


Oh yeah, you're the guy who told us all that you were a sociopath and you were proud of it, or something. Yup, you're the guy I'd trust for advice about mental disorders.

Douche.
 
2012-11-27 03:52:15 PM  
I've been upset when my pets have died, but not to the point that I've taken off work, or even cried at work. Maybe a few sniffles, but not hysterical sobbing. I've only had to have one euthanized, but she had leukemia, which is terribly contagious and I had another kitten, and the vet said she had a week at most and would sleep pretty much the whole time. Yeah, "it had to be done." I could have kept her around for that last week, but that would have been rather selfish of me.

Maybe I picked the wrong anecdote to describe what a crazy lady this chick is, or maybe "histronic personality disorder" was the wrong term. Is "drama queen attention whore" an actual diagnosis? Seriously, it's like she's the only person EVER in the course of history to have to euthanize a dog. And she's always SICKER than anyone EVER, or sadder than anyone ever, or whatever. Whatever is brought up, she's had it worse.
 
2012-11-27 03:56:41 PM  

cryinoutloud: Oh yeah, you're the guy who told us all that you were a sociopath and you were proud of it, or something. Yup, you're the guy I'd trust for advice about mental disorders.


I can't help it. My crazy ex made me this way. It isn't my fault.
 
2012-11-27 04:08:35 PM  

umad: I can't help it. My crazy ex made me this way. It isn't my fault.


I called it right the first time--you're an asshole who likes to troll around here and I caught you out the last time you were blithering on about how you were this bad dude who was a bona-fide sociopath, and no one could stop you because you were a sociopath. Maybe you could address the reason you feel the need to do stupid stuff like that, but actually, who cares? You aren't even good enough to piss very many people off. Even with that name.
 
2012-11-27 04:51:25 PM  

Eps05: As someone with Avoidant Personality Disorder, I'm getting a kick, etc...

I had signs of it since early childhood, but people thought i was just shy. Well, i was, but the problem was/is much more complicated than that. Only realized i had it a few years ago.

Makes social interactions almost impossible to create, all the while i can deal with people formally without much trouble. It's one of those issues that's almost impossible to notice unless you know me. And it's hard to get to know me because, well, i avoid people beyond the strictly utilitarian.

I always feel like people are judging me constantly, like a thousand eyes watching me, and i can't ignore or let go. Because those eyes include mine. It's terrible and makes me paranoid. Completely unable to deal with social pressure. I'm always in a state of super-inhibition. I can't "just do it", break off the mold, etc. i have mental blocks, i panic, etc.

It sucks.



I haven't read the symptoms of that disorder yet, but when I read the title, I thought that could well be me.

What you wrote was pretty much me, word for word.

I also have a little bit of post concussion syndrome from, of all the embarassing sports, Soccer. It's not an aggresive sport like american football, but taking a few hard balls to the face (ha ha) really scrambled my brains up a little.

Things for the most part have changed for me in the past year, though. I found a fiancee who and her family who are incredibly supportive and loving to me, and that has made a huge difference.


I still really dread social events, and I really don't have any friends, but to a certain degree, I have accepted it. I may need my meds upped a smidge, but very slightly. Counselling helped me as well, because I just had someone to talk to (but honestly, i did feel he was judging me as well, but that's just the disorder.)

. I'm finally in a career that I love, and am better at than most people, based on my life experiences.

I tell you all this because I don't want you to give up hope. It's beenincredibly hard work,but it's been so worth it. I'm also working on a presentation to take to schools, to not give up, and help them find the proper resources, because we aren't alone, and if it helps one person, it's worth it to me

If you ever need someone to vent to, feel freeto shoot me a message.

Best of luck
 
2012-11-27 05:05:03 PM  

doczoidberg: More disorders = more reasons to prescribe people expensive medications.


It all makes sense if you think of Freud, Jung et al as fraudulent prophets, therapists as dubious pastors, disorders as sin and therapy as the purchase of indulgence. Forget scientology; psychotherapy is the twentieth century's quack religion.
 
2012-11-27 05:08:19 PM  

cryinoutloud: umad: I can't help it. My crazy ex made me this way. It isn't my fault.

I called it right the first time--you're an asshole who likes to troll around here and I caught you out the last time you were blithering on about how you were this bad dude who was a bona-fide sociopath, and no one could stop you because you were a sociopath.


I am a self-described asshole, so good work on figuring that one out.

Maybe you could address the reason you feel the need to do stupid stuff like that

Sure. I do it because I like to fark with trailer trash welfare queens who have victim complexes.
 
2012-11-27 05:09:56 PM  

Doom MD: It's difficult to treat convince someone who doesnt think they have a problem to spend huge amounts of money on therapy.


FTFY
 
2012-11-27 06:04:46 PM  
Interesting comments. There's so much people don't seem to know about personality disorders, therapy, and medication when they're not involved in the field - which of course makes sense - but I wish there was an easy, quick way to provide psychoeducation to people so everyone could be more understanding and empathic about individuals with mental illness.
 
2012-11-27 07:18:02 PM  

sugarhi: Interesting comments. There's so much people don't seem to know about personality disorders, therapy, and medication when they're not involved in the field - which of course makes sense - but I wish there was an easy, quick way to provide psychoeducation to people so everyone could be more understanding and empathic about individuals with mental illness.


I think a useful distinction can be made between mental illness as a treatable deviation from an individual's normal state and all those waffly disorders which are an individuals normal state.
 
2012-11-27 07:40:09 PM  
groppet:
My brother is going through something like this with his MiL. She is bipolar and has had many violent outbursts. At one I was called over to pick up my niece that was 6 at the time and bring her to my parents. I have never seen that look on her face before it was a confused, scared shiatless look. She latched on to me and was so happy she made it to my parents. My brother and his wife have banned the MiL from the house if she is off her meds and once even just told her to not bother ever coming over. But recently "God healed her" and she has been back over to the house. Im lucky I get to avoid her. My SiL brother was diagnosed with bipolar disorder I think within the last 5 years. Its been odd seeing the transformation he has made. He quit drinking which for his condition is fine, but he is taking the train to crazy town with his mom. He was teaching at a religious school and quit because they didnt teach enough Jesus. He annouced he is no longer celebrating christmas for whatever reason. I think he is a few years away from joing some cult, heading to the middle of nowhere and do a Waco style compound. I worry for my brother and his family at times.

When my wife recently told me that some people use prayer to manage their anxiety (as an atheistic Buddhist, she wasn't endorsing it, mind you), this is the sort of thing I couldn't help wondering about. Because IMO there's a fine line between "looking to a higher power to give you strength to manage your issues" and "piling religious weirdness on TOP of your issues until you have a whole stinking pile that allows you to act crazy, justify it, and rebuke any attempts to give you insight as 'satanic' or whatnot".
 
2012-11-27 07:43:29 PM  

orbister: sugarhi: Interesting comments. There's so much people don't seem to know about personality disorders, therapy, and medication when they're not involved in the field - which of course makes sense - but I wish there was an easy, quick way to provide psychoeducation to people so everyone could be more understanding and empathic about individuals with mental illness.

I think a useful distinction can be made between mental illness as a treatable deviation from an individual's normal state and all those waffly disorders which are an individuals normal state.


Your adjectives aside, that is exactly what the psychiatric field is trying to determine.
 
2012-11-27 07:53:29 PM  

cherryl taggart: I know I was loony for marrying my ex, but no one ever diagnosed him, so I will ask the Fark panel of experts to call it. He has been remarried for 20 years, and every so often will contact mutual acquaintances and ask them if I have tried to pump them for info on him. Not only no, but hell no. In fact, if I know of a situation in which he might appear, I send my regrets and don't attend. He made a point of having someone contact me when a distant family member of his died, "just in case you wanted to know."

So, what is he? Garden variety of loser, long-distance semi-stalker, creep, or something else?


Truthfully, Cheryl? I think he's still somewhat obsessed. You're doing the right thing for yourself. Best of luck ... and just enjoy your life to its fullest.
 
2012-11-27 08:06:06 PM  
If Subby has multiple crazy ex-wives, maybe he should be looking at his own personality issues.
 
2012-11-27 08:23:33 PM  
You don't know how badly I wanted to point out the "common denominator" theme to my ex. Of course, I'm also oh-fer, so I don't have any room to talk myself...cuts both ways.

But, I'm trying to actually learn and apply those lessons so that, maybe eventually, I'll have a chance.
 
2012-11-27 08:34:49 PM  

Hamster On A Wheel: czei: When you look at it from the perspective of a lifetime, having multiple serious relationships makes sense for different phases of life.

You're right. But, divorcing multiple times because you've grown apart and divorcing multiple times because you picked a crazy person - again - ??? You have to ask yourself, why am I drawn to crazy people? Or they to me, or whatever.


Hey, you should write a book; there's millions of divorced people who would love to hear what they should have done.
 
2012-11-27 09:21:49 PM  

Bender The Offender: kokomo61: I think my sister had it nailed when she said 'Borderline Personality Disorder' is just an excuse for bad behavior.

If you can blame it on a 'disorder', then TaDa! No personal responsibility!

I've always said BPD is psychiatry's way of calling you an asshole.


I dont think you guys know what BPD is or maybe you just dont know any BPD people. Im pretty sure you cant rely on a BPD person to dilligently take responsibility for their own drama and problems whether they've been given a diagnosis or not.

I think BPD ppl are scary to get into relationships with, but i wouldnt call them all assholes. Some are, but you dont need a mental illness to be an asshole. People with personality disorders are likely just fractured people who quite probably will never find cures for their problems. Be thankful you dont have such a disorder (if you dont).
 
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