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(WTKR)   New surveillance video shows F-18 passing mere feet from the camera before crashing into an apartment complex in April. Amazingly no one died   (wtkr.com) divider line 19
    More: Followup, apartment complex, Good Friday  
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21152 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Nov 2012 at 7:52 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-11-27 08:38:07 AM
14 votes:
The official accident report on this crash (which I couldn't find again online) makes for an interesting read if you are into aviation. The pilots lost an engine while on their takeoff roll, and reasonably thought it was due to a tire failure (rubber ingestion by the engine isn't unheard of if the nose gear fails). They followed protocol and took off, then almost immediately lost most (but not all) thrust on the second engine for reasons unknown. Had they put the gear up and ditched their external tanks at that instant, they MIGHT have been able to limp it out to sea before ejecting. But their training said that with a tire failure you don't put the gear up, and you don't dump your fuel tanks over a populated area. So they flew the jet for about 90 seconds, ran out of airspeed, and ejected 50 feet above the ground (when they finally stalled and their jet stopped responding to control inputs and began to roll).

What makes the crash report interesting is that the lower level investigators put some blame on the pilots at first, saying that it was technically possible for the pilots to avoid the crash had they ditched the tanks and raised the gear. But then the SENIOR officials who had to sign off on the report said that was hogwash, and that the pilots had followed existing protocol to the letter. They said that naval aviation education about dual engine failure on takeoff was deficient, and that training needed to be changed and that the pilots did absolutely the best they could based on what they'd been taught. I was very impressed that in a high visibility accident like this, the senior brass did not throw the pilots under the bus but instead blamed the system (and the jet for failing).

/CSB (or at least I thought it was).
2012-11-27 09:27:47 AM
2 votes:
Marshall Willenholly

Mazzic518: Shakespeare's Monkey: Marshall Willenholly: Well, that's the problem then. Why was the guy trying to get so close to the camera?

Thats an F-14

BS. That's a F-15. But a brontosaurus is flying.

There's no such thing as a "Brontosaurus" 

-themoreyouknow.jpg-
2012-11-27 08:39:38 AM
2 votes:

Marshall Willenholly: Mazzic518: Shakespeare's Monkey: Marshall Willenholly: Well, that's the problem then. Why was the guy trying to get so close to the camera?

Thats an F-14

BS. That's a F-15. But a brontosaurus is flying.


It is a cartoon jet, with aspects of both:
Parallel intakes (F-15) (F-14 are canted)
Tails directly on the engine pod (F-14) (F-15 tails are outboard of the engines)

/this discussion has been here before
2012-11-27 08:37:41 AM
2 votes:

fappomatic: As heavily populated as the area is, there have been very few incidents at Oceana that were a threat to residents.


I thought we were at war with Oceana....or is it Eastasia?
2012-11-27 03:01:48 PM
1 votes:

obamadidcoke: baldrik78: obamadidcoke:
Pushed the angle of attack to 30 degrees, max power to the one working engine, gear up to clean up the airframe and ride it like a rocket to the ocean less than 3 miles away. Of course the pilots would have been lost, but they volunteered for this B.S.

Jenius. Why didn't the pilots think of this?

Because they valued their own lives over those on the ground and decided to eject to safety rather than try everything.


obamadidcoke can only sustain an erection when American service persons die.
2012-11-27 12:39:49 PM
1 votes:
I never thought that it would be so clear, what with all the trolls and half-wits that do pop in from time to time, that the dumbest person on Fark would be so easy to spot.

For the record, I'm saying that Obamadidcoke is the dumbest person on Fark. At this point, I'm flummoxed by someone being so incredibly stupid.
2012-11-27 12:16:37 PM
1 votes:

obamadidcoke: Okay I give up it's a miracle that poor aircraft design, poor maintenance by the Navy, and a "save yourself" attitude by the pilots only resulted in millions of dollars of property damage but no deaths.

It still doesn't address the larger question which is; why do we let these jerkoffs who can't keep a plane in the air practice over U.S. cities?


See, people...this is one of those times, when you have no idea what you're talking about...you shouldn't say anything.
obamadidcoke does not know this.
2012-11-27 12:12:27 PM
1 votes:

obamadidcoke: baldrik78: obamadidcoke:
Pushed the angle of attack to 30 degrees, max power to the one working engine, gear up to clean up the airframe and ride it like a rocket to the ocean less than 3 miles away. Of course the pilots would have been lost, but they volunteered for this B.S.

Jenius. Why didn't the pilots think of this?

Because they valued their own lives over those on the ground and decided to eject to safety rather than try everything.


Well obviously. I mean, I would too. You guys have no idea how many of you I would kill so that I could keep living.
2012-11-27 10:57:10 AM
1 votes:

obamadidcoke: No, I just believe that If you fly a plane you are responsable for everything that happens when you are flying. These guys could have flown this plane into the ground in an unpopulated area, but they chose to eject to save themselves without regard for the people on the ground. They should never be allowed to fly again because their actions show a callous disregard for the innocent people on the ground.

When they had a problem they should have stayed over their own base instead of flying over a populated area to try to work it out.


On the 0.1% chance you're not trolling and are actually serious:
1. With few exceptions, aircraft fly in one direction. Forward. About 3 seconds after they left the ground, they were over populated land.
2. With one engine out and the other failing, your options are limited and getting worse.
3. When the second engine eventually does not provide enough thrust to keep it in the air (speed + lift vs drag+gravity), it will come down.
4. Off either end of the Oceana runway, there is no unpopulated land until you get to the ocean (about 3 miles). They did not have enough thrust to make it that far.
5. When the base was built in the 40's, it was surrounded by unpopulated farmland. That has since changed.

In truth, they had one option. Invoke the reverse time machine in the cockpit, go back in time about a minute or so, and not take off.

In your vast aircraft experience, what do you think they should have done?

/but yes..you are trolling
2012-11-27 10:55:21 AM
1 votes:

obamadidcoke: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: JustGetItRight: obamadidcoke: They should be put in jail for ejecting and leaving the jet to crash in a populated area.

As opposed to staying on board and uncontrollable aircraft and dying when it crashed into the same populated area?

-5/10

feeding a troll

-eleventybillion/potato

No, I just believe that If you fly a plane you are responsable for everything that happens when you are flying. These guys could have flown this plane into the ground in an unpopulated area, but they chose to eject to save themselves without regard for the people on the ground. They should never be allowed to fly again because their actions show a callous disregard for the innocent people on the ground.

When they had a problem they should have stayed over their own base instead of flying over a populated area to try to work it out.


Either your trolling or have absolutely no knowledge of aviation or how aircraft work.

They had 0 power from one engine, and partial from the second. They were below the required power to maintain airspeed and were slowing down, whether they wanted to or not. It takes a certain amount of power to keep an airplane at a given speed, they did not have that amount of power available. Now, if an airplane doesnt maintain a certain speed (known as "stall speed", varies by aircraft) then the aircraft stalls. Now this isnt the stall a car does, "stall" in aviation terms means the wings are no longer getting the proper amount of airflow to maintain lift, and the aircraft literally falls out of the sky. The flight control surfaces also tend to lose handling below stall speed as well, making maneuvering nearly impossible. If your are several thousand feet up, its possible to recover from a stall. They werent high enough.

Bottom line, that airplane was falling out of the sky, and there was nothing anyone was doing about it.

Why yes, Ive spent my share of time around aviation...

/2 private pilots in the family
//good friend was a pilot
///worked at an airport
2012-11-27 10:48:46 AM
1 votes:
i66.photobucket.com

/too soon?????
2012-11-27 10:46:37 AM
1 votes:

obamadidcoke: No, I just believe that If you fly a plane you are responsable for everything that happens when you are flying. These guys could have flown this plane into the ground in an unpopulated area, but they chose to eject to save themselves without regard for the people on the ground. They should never be allowed to fly again because their actions show a callous disregard for the innocent people on the ground.

When they had a problem they should have stayed over their own base instead of flying over a populated area to try to work it out


See, there is the problem in your logic...they weren't flying it anymore. They were stalled at that point so there was no more control. That plane was going to hit that spot at that time regardless of any further actions. Hell, even if they somehow managed to get an engine re-lit, they would probably still hit that spot only slightly faster. They were in extremis, time to punch.
2012-11-27 09:55:22 AM
1 votes:
Having crashed an F-4, I'm getting a kick out of this.
2012-11-27 09:54:46 AM
1 votes:

Minerva8918: This was actually a training flight, there was the pilot and the instructor who wasn't a pilot (again, IIRC). That detail brought a lot of outrage, but these guys did the best they could, given the situation


The 'instructor' was a fully qualified pilot. The word student conjures up images of a brand new kid sitting in the seat for the first time.
The guy driving, the 'student', could have been anything from a newbie, to an regular pilot on a periodic checkride. But even the newbies have many, many hours in the simulator before leaving the ground. And then hours and hours in training jets (T-45) before getting into a real fighter.

/almost all flights from Oceana are 'training flights'
//that primarily means 'non-combat'
2012-11-27 08:49:46 AM
1 votes:
"Then families certifiable morons with small children ..."

FTFT
2012-11-27 08:41:00 AM
1 votes:

Marshall Willenholly: Mazzic518: Shakespeare's Monkey: Marshall Willenholly: Well, that's the problem then. Why was the guy trying to get so close to the camera?

Thats an F-14

BS. That's a F-15. But a brontosaurus is flying.



It's looks like it has features of both, but it's supposed to be an F-14. The F-14 has the vertical stabilizers on the engine nacelles like in the picture (F-15 is offset). Also, the square "tip" between the tails/engines is an F-14 feature, not 15.
2012-11-27 08:29:23 AM
1 votes:
You were in a 4g inverted dive?
Yes, ma'am.
At what range?
Um, about two meters. It was actually about one and a half I think. It was one and a half. I've got a great picture of it, and he's right there, must be one and a half.
Eh, lieutenant, what were you doing there?
Showing my RIO my new TV I got for my birthday, you can see it through the window
2012-11-27 08:21:00 AM
1 votes:
Negative, Ghostrider, the apartment is full.
2012-11-27 08:16:12 AM
1 votes:

Deep Contact: Um, it's now November.


/check calendar
I missed Halloween again. :-(
 
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