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(Philly.com)   Now looks like a good time to fire Andy Reid   (philly.com) divider line 122
    More: Obvious, Jeffrey Lurie, Nick Foles, Jason Babin, Lincoln Financial Field, Rich Kotite, LeSean McCoy, franchise quarterback, Nnamdi Asomugha  
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2285 clicks; posted to Sports » on 27 Nov 2012 at 10:25 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-27 12:34:23 PM  

Kurmudgeon: I've got to wonder if Tomlin may make the list. No protection for his quarterback plus no backups except wore out over the hill guys


a Superbowl and 2 AFC Championships in 6 seasons, plus the team was playing pretty well this year until the QB went down.

And they say Eagles fans are unreasonable for wanting Reid out
 
2012-11-27 12:34:25 PM  

MugzyBrown: Would you keep a coach who missed the playoffs two years in a row and hasn't won a playoff game in 5 years?


And who also, despite 14 years of being in the same position, has rarely:

- demonstrated decent clock mgmt?
- been good at in-game adjustments?
- shown a willingness to change his gameplan week-after-week?
- acknowledged the idea of a consistent running game?

And this is on top of the questionable-to-downright-insane personnel decisions he's made in the past several years on pretty much every level. Remember, in addition to the coaching staff, he also has final say on drafting and free agents, as well as a lot of influence and control over areas like scouting and - sadly enough - the front office.
 
2012-11-27 12:35:48 PM  

Gonz: And whatever team hires Tom Cable becomes an immediate contender. I don't know why his name is not mentioned more, that guy can flat-out coach.


I agree, actually. Most of the problems associated with him can be attributed to two words: Al Davis.
 
2012-11-27 12:36:31 PM  

IanMoone: I don't see the Eagles firing Reid before the end of the season. Why?

Who will take his place? The defensive coordinator? Umm no. The VP of communications? Umm no. They have no one to step into the role.


The OC has head coaching experience.

prosportsblogging.com
 
2012-11-27 12:36:37 PM  

AdamK: meh, i've never cared for the eagles but i've always respected Andy Reid, i wonder where they guy will land


San Diego. I'd bet on it. Most of us won't be happy about it either.
 
2012-11-27 12:37:10 PM  

Gonz: And whatever team hires Tom Cable becomes an immediate contender. I don't know why his name is not mentioned more, that guy can flat-out coach.


shutupshutupSHUTUP

/specifically avoided mentioning him earlier
 
2012-11-27 12:39:35 PM  
Ouch.

DeSean Jackson is out for the year, fractured ribs.

It just keeps getting better for the Iggles.
 
2012-11-27 12:39:48 PM  

sammyk: Going to be a lot of coaching changes this year.

My predictions
Chiefs
Panthers
Chargers
Eagles

The maybe list
Cowboys
Browns
Raiders
Jaguars


This list isn't that good. The Browns and Jets go in the definite category. The Raiders and Jags can come off the list as they both have first year coaches under first year GMs/Owners. They don't make a change. Then to the maybe list you can Detroit, NO (if Peyton goes to Dallas), Cardinals and maybe Minnesota
 
2012-11-27 12:42:20 PM  

xaks: Ouch.

DeSean Jackson is out for the year, fractured ribs.

It just keeps getting better for the Iggles.


It hardly matters. This team is a dumpster fire and most of the players stopped several weeks ago. DeSean might as well avoid head injuries for a while.
 
2012-11-27 12:47:08 PM  

sammyk: Going to be a lot of coaching changes this year.

My predictions
Chiefs
Panthers
Chargers
Eagles

The maybe list
Cowboys
Browns
Raiders
Jaguars



My predictions
Chiefs
Eagles
Browns

The maybe list
Panthers
Jaguars

No way they fire Norv at this point.

Jerry will not admit Garrett is a problem after putting him on such a pedestal. He'll allow at least one more mediocre season.

Holmgren quit the Browns. The next guy will bring in his own coach.

Al Davis is dead, and so far it seems Reggie McKenzie is actually running the team. The coach is his guy, for now.
 
2012-11-27 12:49:21 PM  

roc6783: sammyk: ***snip***


Forgot to add Jets to the Maybe list. They seem to be starting a long downward spiral, but who knows if Rex will take the blame.
 
2012-11-27 12:49:44 PM  

Banacek: As much as it bothers me, Reid has to play out the year. There is no reason to fire him now. I don't want to watch the Marty Mornhinweg show almost as much as I don't want to watch Reid finish the season, and no one is getting hired in the next few weeks.

I can't believe that Eagles fans are serious when they say they want Gruden to come in next year. It's like they don't know anything about football...

/ Chip Kelly is the best prospect out there


If they knew anything about football, they wouldn't be Eagles fans...
 
2012-11-27 12:50:06 PM  
I can't believe I'm saying this, but.... this season isn't Andy Reid's fault.

He's still likely going to take the fall for it, but the fact is he has a sustained record of excellence. For all his faults as a coach, he still hasn't had a sub-.500 season since 2005 (until this year, most likely).

It's probably time for change after his 14 years at the helm, but hard to blame his shortcomings as a coach for the Eagle's struggles this season. And I'm skeptical they'll be able to attract a better coach anyway given the current situation with the team.

Not that it matters, since barring something dramatic Reid will be gone at the end of the season at latest.
 
2012-11-27 12:52:22 PM  
Firing Reid at this point doesn't make much sense. That's something you do if you are trying to salvage a season. This season is already lost.
 
2012-11-27 12:55:51 PM  

Supes: I can't believe I'm saying this, but.... this season isn't Andy Reid's fault.


Considering Andy Reid has picked all of the players and rearranged the whole coaching staff, how on earth is it not his fault?
 
2012-11-27 12:56:17 PM  

Supes: I can't believe I'm saying this, but.... this season isn't Andy Reid's fault.

He's still likely going to take the fall for it, but the fact is he has a sustained record of excellence. For all his faults as a coach, he still hasn't had a sub-.500 season since 2005 (until this year, most likely).

It's probably time for change after his 14 years at the helm, but hard to blame his shortcomings as a coach for the Eagle's struggles this season. And I'm skeptical they'll be able to attract a better coach anyway given the current situation with the team.

Not that it matters, since barring something dramatic Reid will be gone at the end of the season at latest.


Bolded the important part. I think it's akin to a John Fox with the Panthers/Jeff Fischer with the Titans situation- after being in one place for so long in today's league, it's just time for a change of scenery.

/Loved John Fox with Carolina and cursed FSM when he went to the Broncos.
 
2012-11-27 12:57:34 PM  

On the Side: Banacek: thecpt: Banacek: The choices are either:

1) An offensive/defensive coordinator: I already watched Dirk Koetter coach the Sun Devils. He doesn't know what defense means. Jack Del Rio, Josh McDaniels, and Mike Nolan already failed as head coaches. Who else is there?

I don't know, sometimes it good to give failed coaches a second shot after they've gone back to coordinating. Belicheck failed in Cleveland then went crawling back to big papa Parcells for a couple more years before taking the Pats gig, and that has since turned out pretty well. You can learn a lot in failure and if you're wide turn it to your advantage next time. I know there is a lot of Belicheat hate on fark, but what other team has been as consistently good for as long as the pats have this last dozen years? All the otehr teams that rose have also fallen.

My point, McDaniels or more likely Nolan might not be bad options.


As a Niners fan, I'm obviously pretty happy with where we're at, but I think Nolan has a coaching future somewhere.
 
2012-11-27 12:57:50 PM  
Reid is the best coach the Eagles have had. It will be extremely difficult to upgrade. Most likely, any replacement will not be as good.
That said, the dough boy can lose a few tons. How can someone so grotesquely overweight coach world class athletes?
 
2012-11-27 12:58:14 PM  

Supes: I can't believe I'm saying this, but.... this season isn't Andy Reid's fault.

He's still likely going to take the fall for it, but the fact is he has a sustained record of excellence. For all his faults as a coach, he still hasn't had a sub-.500 season since 2005 (until this year, most likely).

It's probably time for change after his 14 years at the helm, but hard to blame his shortcomings as a coach for the Eagle's struggles this season. And I'm skeptical they'll be able to attract a better coach anyway given the current situation with the team.

Not that it matters, since barring something dramatic Reid will be gone at the end of the season at latest.


I think that Andy Reid has reached the same point that Jeff Fisher reached with the Titans. Reid has a better won-loss record than Fisher, but both coaches produced consistently good (but not great) teams over a long period of time, lost a Super Bowl, and eventually went into decline.

Whether this season is Reid's fault or not, change is needed.
 
2012-11-27 12:58:32 PM  

MugzyBrown: Supes: I can't believe I'm saying this, but.... this season isn't Andy Reid's fault.

Considering Andy Reid has picked all of the players and rearranged the whole coaching staff, how on earth is it not his fault?


THIS.

Reid has had god-level control over personnel and coaching staff decisions. Whatever this squad is, whatever results it gets on the field or off, are a direct result of HIS decision making.

I don't understand one single logical way you could possibly make an argument that this is anything BUT his direct responsibility.
 
2012-11-27 12:58:34 PM  
It's 1:00 pm in the east..

WHERE THE fark IS THE PRESS RELEASE????

/I've been calling for this fat dope to be canned since 2008..
 
2012-11-27 12:59:26 PM  
I don't know about the Jets. Their problem seems to be personnel, not coaching. Their game plan is solid. Their execution is horrible. Example from the butt fumble game.

Notice that when the players weren't handing the ball over to the other team, the offense was moving just as well as the Patriots offense. I'm not sure how a coach is responsible for players running into their own O-Line.
 
2012-11-27 01:00:05 PM  

FriarReb98: SilentStrider: Firing Reid won't keep Brown from having the dropsies.

Or Vick from being their regular QB. Or, most importantly, from them being the "two Super Bowl appearances and no championships since 1960" Eagles.


these are just more reasons he needs to go. No, he can't control what the players do.. BUT he IS the director of personnel. He's responsible for bringing awful players into town.

Remember, Vick is only an Eagle because Kevin Kolb was a miserable failure. Kevin Kolb was a miserable failure because anyone with eyes and a brain could see he sucks. Andy Reid made the decision to draft him anyway.
 
2012-11-27 01:00:36 PM  

sammyk: The crappy part is we will probably lose Del Rio to a HC position so the DC merry go round is still going.


Hope that Carolina fires Rivera so you have a shot at him as a DC. He's not a great HC, but he's an excellent DC.
 
2012-11-27 01:02:34 PM  

havocmike: It's 1:00 pm in the east..

WHERE THE fark IS THE PRESS RELEASE????

/I've been calling for this fat dope to be canned since 2008..


Here you go
 
2012-11-27 01:03:13 PM  

Kurmudgeon: sammyk: The maybe list

I've got to wonder if Tomlin may make the list. No protection for his quarterback plus no backups except wore out over the hill guys. I understand that stability is a good thing, but you have to wonder when the front office is going to say enough is enough.


No. The Steelers are the Anti-Rooneys. Tomlin has that job until he decides to retire
 
2012-11-27 01:03:48 PM  

Lost Thought 00: Kurmudgeon: sammyk: The maybe list

I've got to wonder if Tomlin may make the list. No protection for his quarterback plus no backups except wore out over the hill guys. I understand that stability is a good thing, but you have to wonder when the front office is going to say enough is enough.

No. The Steelers are the Anti-Rooneys Snyders. Tomlin has that job until he decides to retire


f*cking preview, how does it work
 
2012-11-27 01:04:55 PM  

IAmRight: Gonz: And whatever team hires Tom Cable becomes an immediate contender. I don't know why his name is not mentioned more, that guy can flat-out coach.

shutupshutupSHUTUP

/specifically avoided mentioning him earlier


Yeah, because if a guy on the internet knows about a really good coach, NFL front offices won't.

OK, I'll make an exception for about 4 franchises, but still, my point holds.
 
2012-11-27 01:06:58 PM  

havocmike: Remember, Vick is only an Eagle because Kevin Kolb was a miserable failure. Kevin Kolb was a miserable failure because anyone with eyes and a brain could see he sucks. Andy Reid made the decision to draft him anyway.


Kevin Kolb was a success for the Eagles. They drafted him in the 2nd, then traded him for a 2nd + DRC. Arizona is stuck with yet another low ceiling QB, but that's not Reid's problem.

Vick is an Eagle because they gave him a really dumb extension after he put together a couple good games. It's still on Andy, but the Kolb part of the situation was handled fine. Drafting QBs is always a little dicey and he got out of it without losing much.
 
2012-11-27 01:07:42 PM  

roc6783: sammyk: Going to be a lot of coaching changes this year.

My predictions
Chiefs
Panthers
Chargers
Eagles

The maybe list
Cowboys
Browns
Raiders
Jaguars


My predictions
Chiefs
Eagles
Browns

The maybe list
Panthers
Jaguars

No way they fire Norv at this point.

Jerry will not admit Garrett is a problem after putting him on such a pedestal. He'll allow at least one more mediocre season.

Holmgren quit the Browns. The next guy will bring in his own coach.

Al Davis is dead, and so far it seems Reggie McKenzie is actually running the team. The coach is his guy, for now.


I'm okay with the Raiders keeping Allen for now, new GM and new coach, of course there will be some growing pains (team was a mess to begin with). However, I will have no problem if they can Knapp and his shiatty play calling that has nullified McFadden with the stupid zone blocking scheme.
 
2012-11-27 01:08:51 PM  

MugzyBrown: Supes: I can't believe I'm saying this, but.... this season isn't Andy Reid's fault.

Considering Andy Reid has picked all of the players and rearranged the whole coaching staff, how on earth is it not his fault?


True, but preseason for both this year and last year commentators and pundits have called the Eagles roster one of the deepest and most talented in the league, labeling the team as Super Bowl contenders.

It's easy to blame Reid for "having a talented team" and failing to succeed. But the fact is players got injured and other players failed to live up to expectations. Blame him for choosing the wrong players if you want, but in that case everyone was wrong when evaluating the Eagles roster.

Just because he "hand-picked" players and coaches doesn't mean it's all his fault they don't perform.

/Giants fan, and I can't count how many "fire Tom Coughlin" articles I've read in the past 8 years....
 
2012-11-27 01:14:17 PM  
The biggest shock to me is Asomugha's play. What happened to that guy? Is he not able to play in a zone? The raiders always had him in man coverage on only one side of the field (wouldn't follow #1 WR). I feel bad for arguing Asomugha vs Revis a couple seasons ago.
 
2012-11-27 01:16:07 PM  

Supes: True, but preseason for both this year and last year commentators and pundits have called the Eagles roster one of the deepest and most talented in the league, labeling the team as Super Bowl contenders.

It's easy to blame Reid for "having a talented team" and failing to succeed. But the fact is players got injured and other players failed to live up to expectations. Blame him for choosing the wrong players if you want, but in that case everyone was wrong when evaluating the Eagles roster.


Andy Reid fired a defensive coordinator, hired a defensive line coach, then couldn't find a defensive coordinator to work with the defensive line coach, so he moved a very successful offensive line coach to defensive coordinator so he could bring Howard Mudd out of retirement to fark up the offensive line.

That alone is fireable.

This doesn't take into account some of the worst drafting in franchise history over the past few years.
 
2012-11-27 01:19:44 PM  

Devo: If you had a coach that made the playoffs 9 of the last 12 years would you keep him? Plenty of teams would be very happy with that result.

2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010


For reference the bills haven't been to the playoffs in Any of the 2000's

And for whatever insane reason or gm says our coaches job is safe
 
2012-11-27 01:19:52 PM  

4NSpy: The biggest shock to me is Asomugha's play. What happened to that guy? Is he not able to play in a zone? The raiders always had him in man coverage on only one side of the field (wouldn't follow #1 WR). I feel bad for arguing Asomugha vs Revis a couple seasons ago.


This is pretty much it.

He's a very good man-cover, bump n run type cover corner.

Zone, not so much.
 
2012-11-27 01:19:56 PM  

degenerate-afro: I don't know about the Jets. Their problem seems to be personnel, not coaching. Their game plan is solid. Their execution is horrible. Example from the butt fumble game.
Notice that when the players weren't handing the ball over to the other team, the offense was moving just as well as the Patriots offense. I'm not sure how a coach is responsible for players running into their own O-Line.


The Jets have bigger issues than what's on the field. They have had a divided locker room for two seasons. That was a problem in Baltimore under Billick/Ryan, and one of the main reasons Baltimore signed Harbaugh instead of Ryan. Ryan's statements that he had 'no clue' (easy GIS to find) at the end of last season were very telling. If you can't get the players to work and think as a team when it matters, you should not be the HC. Ryan is a great DC, except for the locker dividing quality, which is terrible in a HC.
 
2012-11-27 01:25:45 PM  

Rhypskallion: degenerate-afro: I don't know about the Jets. Their problem seems to be personnel, not coaching. Their game plan is solid. Their execution is horrible. Example from the butt fumble game.
Notice that when the players weren't handing the ball over to the other team, the offense was moving just as well as the Patriots offense. I'm not sure how a coach is responsible for players running into their own O-Line.

The Jets have bigger issues than what's on the field. They have had a divided locker room for two seasons. That was a problem in Baltimore under Billick/Ryan, and one of the main reasons Baltimore signed Harbaugh instead of Ryan. Ryan's statements that he had 'no clue' (easy GIS to find) at the end of last season were very telling. If you can't get the players to work and think as a team when it matters, you should not be the HC. Ryan is a great DC, except for the locker dividing quality, which is terrible in a HC.


I wasn't even the running into his own OL that was the sad part. What was sad was that Sanchez and the RB had a complete miscommunication on a basic "hand off the ball and run straight ahead" play. How in the hell can you miss that?
 
2012-11-27 01:26:14 PM  

Supes: Just because he "hand-picked" players and coaches doesn't mean it's all his fault they don't perform.


Forget the players, Andy Reid is *DIRECTLY* responsible for the mess on the defense. He's the one who hired a defensive line coach - before hiring a new DC, I might add - to implement a gimmicky scheme that they didn't have the right players (or rest of the coaching staff, for that matter) to run. He then compounded that mess by moving his o-line coach to be DC, a move that not one person outside of the Eagles organization could see the logic of. He then *blamed* that particular person (For letting Reid promote him, I guess) for the defense not being able to overcome the offensive ineptitude, and fired him during the bye to "send a message", yet left every other part of the defense and coaching staff intact. The team responded by... having one of the worst Eagle defenses in the past 30 years since then.

I'm sorry, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with injuries or anything else. Every part of that is on Andy Reid's shoulders.
 
2012-11-27 01:29:43 PM  

Supes: True, but preseason for both this year and last year commentators and pundits have called the Eagles roster one of the deepest and most talented in the league, labeling the team as Super Bowl contenders.

It's easy to blame Reid for "having a talented team" and failing to succeed. But the fact is players got injured and other players failed to live up to expectations. Blame him for choosing the wrong players if you want, but in that case everyone was wrong when evaluating the Eagles roster.


And where exactly is that talent? Anyone who pays a lick of attention to the league should know that the Eagles are far from talented. Sure, they have some "name" players, but none of those guys have talent where it matters - hitting people. They are a soft, soft team all around. They have speed but no size, which is why they get bullied on both sides of the ball. They also have no depth whatsoever, which is why their special teams are terrible.

Those pundits and commentators don't lose their jobs if they're wrong about the talent on one team, so they stick with what they know. The eagles have been a moderately successful team for a while, so they don't bother to look any deeper than that. The Eagles haven't been a good team - or a team with a lot of talent - for a few seasons now. It takes some time for the talking heads to catch up to reality.
 
2012-11-27 01:38:23 PM  

Why Would I Read the Article: 3) A college coach: I think Kelly is at the best of the lot, but I'm willing to hear other suggestions.

I actually think the best college coach is the only guy this year to beat Chip Kelly. I believe that any team that hires David Shaw will be very happy with their decision, so I hope he doesn't go to a team I hate, like the Raiders or Cowboys.


O'Brien or whatever his name is at Penn St did a near amazing job. He seems like he might be a good choice. I hope he stays at Penn St though.
 
2012-11-27 01:42:29 PM  

Joe_diGriz: Forget the players, Andy Reid is *DIRECTLY* responsible for the mess on the defense. He's the one who hired a defensive line coach - before hiring a new DC, I might add...


I agree with all of that but it is even worse. He hired an offensive line coach to be the new DC. They guy hadn't coached defense since 1989, when he was the DC of a high school team.

Right after he did it people were calling it insane...and it was
 
2012-11-27 02:20:21 PM  

ghall3: Right after he did it people were calling it insane...and it was


The funny thing is that it was sort of working out at the beginning of the season (they were giving up some points, but the offense was turning the ball over like crazy and you can only ask the defense to make so many stops with a short field), then he fired Castillo and it totally went to shiat.
 
2012-11-27 02:29:41 PM  
Andy Reid could murder a hooker and leave her hanging from the Independence Hall balcolny and STILL seem to not get fired nowadays.
 
2012-11-27 02:47:38 PM  

ghall3: Joe_diGriz: Forget the players, Andy Reid is *DIRECTLY* responsible for the mess on the defense. He's the one who hired a defensive line coach - before hiring a new DC, I might add...

I agree with all of that but it is even worse. He hired an offensive line coach to be the new DC. They guy hadn't coached defense since 1989, when he was the DC of a high school team.

Right after he did it people were calling it insane...and it was


The funny part about all of this is that the defense played better when Juan Castillo was the DC than they are now under Todd Bowles.
 
2012-11-27 02:49:02 PM  

4NSpy: roc6783: sammyk: ***snip***

I'm okay with the Raiders keeping Allen for now, new GM and new coach, of course there will be some growing pains (team was a mess to begin with). However, I will have no problem if they can Knapp and his shiatty play calling that has nullified McFadden with the stupid zone blocking scheme.


Things should be really interesting for the Raiders in a few years if McKenzie pans out as well as either guy he worked for. Hopefully for them, he is a little more Ron Wolf and a little less Ted Thompson.

///Yes, I am still (barely) bitter about not giving Buffalo a 4th rounder for Marshawn Lynch.
 
2012-11-27 02:49:07 PM  

you have pee hands: ghall3: Right after he did it people were calling it insane...and it was

The funny thing is that it was sort of working out at the beginning of the season (they were giving up some points, but the offense was turning the ball over like crazy and you can only ask the defense to make so many stops with a short field), then he fired Castillo and it totally went to shiat.


Or I could have just quoted this. Castillo was a better DC and the prerequisite scape goat.
 
2012-11-27 02:57:54 PM  

degenerate-afro: Or I could have just quoted this. Castillo was a better DC and the prerequisite scape goat.


Was it a good decision to promote him in the first place? No, of course not. But Castillo also had a HUGE disadvantage outside of the experience thing - he was being forced to run someone else's system. (A system, I might add, which isn't exactly straightforward to begin with.) He was doing okay, all things considered, and probably could have grown into the job given enough time. But it's amazing how quickly the defense kinda just threw up their hands and quit once Reid hit the panic button and fired him.
 
2012-11-27 03:04:49 PM  

havocmike: FriarReb98: SilentStrider: Firing Reid won't keep Brown from having the dropsies.

Or Vick from being their regular QB. Or, most importantly, from them being the "two Super Bowl appearances and no championships since 1960" Eagles.

these are just more reasons he needs to go. No, he can't control what the players do.. BUT he IS the director of personnel. He's responsible for bringing awful players into town.

Remember, Vick is only an Eagle because Kevin Kolb was a miserable failure. Kevin Kolb was a miserable failure because anyone with eyes and a brain could see he sucks. Andy Reid made the decision to draft him anyway.


Vick is the Eagles starting QB because Kolb got concussed in the first game of what was supposed to be his season as the starter.
 
2012-11-27 03:21:19 PM  

degenerate-afro: The funny part about all of this is that the defense played better when Juan Castillo was the DC than they are now under Todd Bowles.


Juan Castillo's stock should really just keep going up. I mean, with no experience really, on that side of the ball, they move him to DC from O-Line, the O-Line is now complete and utter sh*t. They get rid of him at DC, and the defense gets significantly worse.
 
2012-11-27 03:28:09 PM  

degenerate-afro: ghall3: Joe_diGriz: ***snip***
The funny part about all of this is that the defense played better when Juan Castillo was the DC than they are now under Todd Bowles.


Every time the Eagles gave up a huge play, they cut to him on the sidelines and he had this weird half smile smirk-thing. Creeped me out.
 
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