If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CNN)   At the Microsoft store directly across from the Apple store at the Mall of America, Surface tablets are flying off the shelf at the amazing hourly rate of.... wait for it... ZERO, compared to eleven iPads   (tech.fortune.cnn.com) divider line 188
    More: Obvious, Microsoft Research, Mall of America, Apple iPad, Microsoft, apples, Microsoft Surface, Piper Jaffray, Munsters  
•       •       •

4575 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Nov 2012 at 4:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



188 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-11-26 01:36:55 PM
I went to the Microsoft store that opened back in October here just to check it out. Some guy gave me a demo of Windows 8 and could not answer a single one of my questions. All he could do was demo it.

I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.
 
2012-11-26 01:39:55 PM
...and more people eat McDonald's than In-N-Out burgers.
 
2012-11-26 01:46:34 PM
Obviously they need more obnoxious advertising
 
2012-11-26 01:48:38 PM
Windows 8 is Vista redux.
 
2012-11-26 01:56:28 PM
This is what I'm waiting for: The 8 hour Asus Taichi 

cdn.slashgear.com
 
2012-11-26 01:57:58 PM
Meh, the Microsoft store near me is always jammed, a constant flow of people walking out with bags o' stuff. With the Christmas season in full gear, it's definitely more of an Xbox store than a Surface store, but whatever, I'll keep my cheerleading for various forms of sportsball.

I will never, in my life, understand peoples' wild-eyed allegiance to corporations. Generational thing? Probably... I just don't get it.
 
2012-11-26 02:06:08 PM
Once again, MS arrives a few years late and millions of dollars short, then wonders why no one will buy their stuff. Did the Windows Phone and the Zune teach them nothing?
 
2012-11-26 02:10:33 PM
A good friend of mine picked up a Samsung Slate tablet running Windows 8. I played with it for about half an hour and did not want to give it back. I would have traded in my iPad right there for it (granted, the tablet was about $550 more expensive than my iPad, but still).

But I'll be keeping my iMac. The operating system would be a nightmare to navigate without a touchscreen.
 
2012-11-26 02:12:13 PM

ThatGuyGreg: Meh, the Microsoft store near me is always jammed, a constant flow of people walking out with bags o' stuff. With the Christmas season in full gear, it's definitely more of an Xbox store than a Surface store, but whatever, I'll keep my cheerleading for various forms of sportsball.

I will never, in my life, understand peoples' wild-eyed allegiance to corporations. Generational thing? Probably... I just don't get it.


I don't get the corporational allegiance of Apple people either. I use Windows 7 and have Android phone, but I wouldn't call myself loyal to Microsoft or Google. They just have the better products. If you aren't an iFanatic and you actually compare products, you realize you're paying a farkton more for a product that is questionable at best in superiority. Plus I'm not buying shiat that's locked down like iPhones are.
 
2012-11-26 02:13:31 PM

Diogenes: I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.


IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them
 
2012-11-26 02:18:10 PM
There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.
 
2012-11-26 02:23:17 PM

EatHam: There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.


No, but there is a superior philosophy, if walled gardens win the consumers lose

Imagine if car companies could fit oddly shaped gas caps to your car so you had to go to certain gas stations, same principal
 
2012-11-26 02:24:28 PM

xynix: This is what I'm waiting for: The 8 hour Asus Taichi 

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x386]


As much as I love Asus products, I just don't get the two screen thing on that device.
 
2012-11-26 02:30:52 PM

Diogenes: I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.


They are certainly hotter, which is what usually draws me in, but ask them anything beyond the basics and they get just as flustered. That said, every time I have had an issue with one of my machines they have been very helpful and timely.
 
2012-11-26 02:31:34 PM

EatHam: There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.


I try using an iPhone, and I feel like a kid playing with a toy. Like those emergency phones you can get for kids that call Mom, Dad, and 911, but nothing else. It's one goddamn button. I have a Droid 4 and I LOVE the keyboard, plus there is something besides a home button.
 
2012-11-26 02:38:05 PM

BunkyBrewman: xynix: This is what I'm waiting for: The 8 hour Asus Taichi 

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x386]

As much as I love Asus products, I just don't get the two screen thing on that device.


It makes it easier to play Battleship.
 
2012-11-26 02:38:15 PM

GAT_00: EatHam: There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.

I try using an iPhone, and I feel like a kid playing with a toy. Like those emergency phones you can get for kids that call Mom, Dad, and 911, but nothing else. It's one goddamn button. I have a Droid 4 and I LOVE the keyboard, plus there is something besides a home button.


I have a Droid myself and love it, but there is absolutely no chance in hell that my dad figures it out.  
 
2012-11-26 02:38:49 PM

L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.


Windows 8 on a tablet (e.g. Surface) makes sense.

On a PC or laptop, especially without a touchscreen, it does not. Yeah you can click a few times and get to a more-or-less mouse/key friendly UI, but so what?

No idea why they thought unifying the interfaces across devices with completely different input hardware made any sense whatsoever.
 
2012-11-26 02:42:02 PM

BunkyBrewman: xynix: This is what I'm waiting for: The 8 hour Asus Taichi 

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x386]

As much as I love Asus products, I just don't get the two screen thing on that device.


For me it will be 100% business tool. Right now I have an iPad for short trips and a laptop for long trips. This will simply combine both technologies. I can read kindle books on it like a tablet and quickly write emails on the keyboard. It's a niche thing as I'm not sure a lot of people would get much use out of it. May be really good for students too though.

It's just giving me the advantages of both a tablet and a laptop in a single device which means I can board a plane with just it on day trips and put it in my suit bag on longer trips. Small, light, long battery life.
 
2012-11-26 02:54:38 PM

vartian: Diogenes: I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.

They are certainly hotter, which is what usually draws me in, but ask them anything beyond the basics and they get just as flustered. That said, every time I have had an issue with one of my machines they have been very helpful and timely.


Helpful and timely - definitely qualities I appreciate in hot guys who want to help me out.
 
2012-11-26 02:59:14 PM

L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.


I recently started playing with Server 2012 and parts of it reminded me more of Windows 3.1 than anything else. There are some serious problems with the interface, but then this is an even-numbered release, so it was expected.
 
2012-11-26 03:09:03 PM

Diogenes: Helpful and timely - definitely qualities I appreciate in hot guys who want to help me out.


That, and I kind of have a thing for scruffy guys in teal.
 
2012-11-26 03:13:20 PM

xynix: BunkyBrewman: xynix: This is what I'm waiting for: The 8 hour Asus Taichi 

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x386]

As much as I love Asus products, I just don't get the two screen thing on that device.

For me it will be 100% business tool. Right now I have an iPad for short trips and a laptop for long trips. This will simply combine both technologies. I can read kindle books on it like a tablet and quickly write emails on the keyboard. It's a niche thing as I'm not sure a lot of people would get much use out of it. May be really good for students too though.

It's just giving me the advantages of both a tablet and a laptop in a single device which means I can board a plane with just it on day trips and put it in my suit bag on longer trips. Small, light, long battery life.


You don't need two screens for that... Almost all major manufacturers are coming out with convertibles so the screen twists or comes off for laptop/tablet mode.
 
2012-11-26 03:22:52 PM

xynix: BunkyBrewman: xynix: This is what I'm waiting for: The 8 hour Asus Taichi 

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x386]

As much as I love Asus products, I just don't get the two screen thing on that device.

For me it will be 100% business tool. Right now I have an iPad for short trips and a laptop for long trips. This will simply combine both technologies. I can read kindle books on it like a tablet and quickly write emails on the keyboard. It's a niche thing as I'm not sure a lot of people would get much use out of it. May be really good for students too though.

It's just giving me the advantages of both a tablet and a laptop in a single device which means I can board a plane with just it on day trips and put it in my suit bag on longer trips. Small, light, long battery life.


Why not get the VivoTab?

That combines both technologies along with a detachable keyboard... plus it comes standard with Office RT.
 
2012-11-26 03:27:43 PM

xynix: This is what I'm waiting for: The 8 hour Asus Taichi 

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x386]


Be forewarned - only the outer screen is a touchscreen. The inner screen is a standard LCD display.
 
2012-11-26 03:28:01 PM

Ryan2065: You don't need two screens for that... Almost all major manufacturers are coming out with convertibles so the screen twists or comes off for laptop/tablet mode.


OK fine.. It's farking cool.. thats why :)
 
2012-11-26 04:48:34 PM
Shoppers at the Apple Store bought an average of 11 iPads per hour. Despite heavy TV, print and billboard advertising for the new Microsoft Surface tablet, not one was sold sold during the two hours Piper Jaffray spent monitoring that store. Doesn't bode well for Microsoft's answer to the iPad.

He said sold twice
 
2012-11-26 04:51:10 PM

L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.


Windows 8 is actually really good.. Microsoft just has done an absolutely shiatty job advertising it and any questions and critiques regarding it are responded by putting their fingers in their ears and saying "I CAN"T HEAR YOU I CAN"T HEAR YOU"..

Metro has been blown so completely out of proportion it's ridiculous.
 
2012-11-26 04:51:17 PM
Maybe people would be more excited for it Microsoft hadn't decided they needed to force an upgrade cycle and cram a tablet OS onto a desktop, generating a lot of tepid/negative press about their new OS and leaving a bad taste in the mouths of early adopters? Just sayin'...
 
2012-11-26 04:55:18 PM
apple fan bois are like starbucks coffee drinkers, its not so much about the product as about being seen buying the product.
 
2012-11-26 04:56:30 PM
I just don't get the clicking thing. In all the commercials, everyone is skateboarding and clicking, dancing and clicking, clicking and clicking. So I go to the MS Store just to look at the device in my hands and they tell me that the clicky-able keyboard is an additional feature that costs an additional 120 bucks. I thought to myself, if i can't dance and skateboard and click with it out of the box, what's the point?
 
2012-11-26 04:58:16 PM

zedster: EatHam: There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.

No, but there is a superior philosophy, if walled gardens win the consumers lose


Agreed. Can you send me a copy of the source code for Windows 8, incidentally? Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?

Imagine if car companies could fit oddly shaped gas caps to your car so you had to go to certain gas stations, same principal

cdn-store.shopandroid.com
 
2012-11-26 04:58:37 PM

zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them


Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.
 
2012-11-26 04:59:10 PM

styckx: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

Windows 8 is actually really good.. Microsoft just has done an absolutely shiatty job advertising it and any questions and critiques regarding it are responded by putting their fingers in their ears and saying "I CAN"T HEAR YOU I CAN"T HEAR YOU"..

Metro has been blown so completely out of proportion it's ridiculous.


Ok, i tried it out by installing it on a virtual machine (Hyper-V) with 4 GB of memory, 1 processor, and it seemed to lag quite a bit. Also, i couldn't figure out how to enable remote access. ALSO, NO GOD DAMN START BUTTON. So, I faced all of these fundamental problems in the first 5 minutes of using it. What's so good about it?
 
2012-11-26 05:04:52 PM

styckx: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

Windows 8 is actually really good.. Microsoft just has done an absolutely shiatty job advertising it and any questions and critiques regarding it are responded by putting their fingers in their ears and saying "I CAN"T HEAR YOU I CAN"T HEAR YOU"..

Metro has been blown so completely out of proportion it's ridiculous.


You can get used to Metro, sure, but the thing is, from a desktop perspective it's change for the sake of change. There's no good reason to do that to the Start Menu. On a tablet or some kind of touch screen sure, makes sense and probably is a lot more efficient. But on a desktop, it's just something you have to adapt to.
 
2012-11-26 05:06:48 PM

GAT_00: I don't get the corporational allegiance of Apple people either. I use Windows 7 and have Android phone, but I wouldn't call myself loyal to Microsoft or Google. They just have the better products. If you aren't an iFanatic and you actually compare products, you realize you're paying a farkton more for a product that is questionable at best in superiority. Plus I'm not buying shiat that's locked down like iPhones are.


You biatch about 'iFanatics' with the same zeal as those iFanatics you somehow despise . I at least get people who love certain things. I don't get those that feel the need to bash other peoples toys because you think your toy is prettier.

/and the 90s called - he wants his tired anti-apple arguments back
 
2012-11-26 05:07:26 PM

styckx: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

Windows 8 is actually really good.. Microsoft just has done an absolutely shiatty job advertising it and any questions and critiques regarding it are responded by putting their fingers in their ears and saying "I CAN"T HEAR YOU I CAN"T HEAR YOU"..

Metro has been blown so completely out of proportion it's ridiculous.


I ended up upgrading (on my desktop) out of curiosity to basically wanted to see what all the whining was about, and whether or not it was overblown. I ended up being surprise by how good it is. Windows 8 is a much better, and faster, interface than the old start menu. I also find myself using many more metro apps than I thought I would, especially the ones that are easier to use than the website equivalent (like NBC News).

The full web integration is especially nice.

/Designer by profession
//Still spend most of my time in the desktop
 
2012-11-26 05:07:48 PM

jayhawk88: styckx: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

Windows 8 is actually really good.. Microsoft just has done an absolutely shiatty job advertising it and any questions and critiques regarding it are responded by putting their fingers in their ears and saying "I CAN"T HEAR YOU I CAN"T HEAR YOU"..

Metro has been blown so completely out of proportion it's ridiculous.

You can get used to Metro, sure, but the thing is, from a desktop perspective it's change for the sake of change. There's no good reason to do that to the Start Menu. On a tablet or some kind of touch screen sure, makes sense and probably is a lot more efficient. But on a desktop, it's just something you have to adapt to.


I dunno, the Start Menu is nigh useless in 7. I only ever use the "Pin to Start Menu", and the search box. Everything else is ignored. The list of programs is totally useless since it gets too long, and when was the last time you ever used the "Documents", "Pictures" or "Music" links from there?
 
2012-11-26 05:08:36 PM

Diogenes: I went to the Microsoft store that opened back in October here just to check it out. Some guy gave me a demo of Windows 8 and could not answer a single one of my questions. All he could do was demo it.

I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.


In all fairness, the majority of Apple customers only need to know how get to the internet. Or I suppose how to do the 5 things the product they just purchased allows them to do.
 
2012-11-26 05:10:16 PM
Went to the Microsoft pop-up store in the local mall the day that Surface was released for sale. It was staffed by what appeared to be some transients in brightly colored MS t-shirts. Then there was this exchange:

Customer next to me: Are you selling these here?
MS store "employee": I'm not sure...

Yeah, I'm sure they're flying off the shelves.
 
2012-11-26 05:11:44 PM

xynix: This is what I'm waiting for: The 8 hour Asus Taichi 

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x386]


yeah, if i was going to get a tablet, I'd go asus.
 
2012-11-26 05:16:18 PM
Ms screwed themselves with the pricing. I wanted one till they finally cracked the lube jar and told us how much. Too high for a tablet hitting the market this late in the game.
 
2012-11-26 05:16:38 PM

tallguywithglasseson: Windows 8 on a tablet (e.g. Surface) makes sense.

On a PC or laptop, especially without a touchscreen, it does not. Yeah you can click a few times and get to a more-or-less mouse/key friendly UI, but so what?

No idea why they thought unifying the interfaces across devices with completely different input hardware made any sense whatsoever.


yeah, if 8 on a desktop was just the updated 7, i'd probably get it (the performance appears much better.) But it looks like a PITA with the enforced tablet start interface so i'll stick with 7. going to buy a surface when the full version comes out (the GF's netbook is on its last legs, since she needs a new laptop anyway and i've been promising her a tablet for her birthday this seems like the perfect situation)
 
2012-11-26 05:21:31 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.


You can ssh into a server and run emacs on it through terminal?
 
2012-11-26 05:21:41 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Once again, MS arrives a few years late and millions of dollars short, then wonders why no one will buy their stuff. Did the Windows Phone and the Zune teach them nothing?


SweetSaws: Ok, i tried it out by installing it on a virtual machine (Hyper-V) with 4 GB of memory, 1 processor, and it seemed to lag quite a bit. Also, i couldn't figure out how to enable remote access. ALSO, NO GOD DAMN START BUTTON. So, I faced all of these fundamental problems in the first 5 minutes of using it. What's so good about it?


did your host have SLAT enabled?

also Wiki: Features New to Windows 8

/required disclaimer: i work for M
//I hate the new start screen too
 
2012-11-26 05:21:45 PM

styckx: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

Windows 8 is actually really good.. Microsoft just has done an absolutely shiatty job advertising it and any questions and critiques regarding it are responded by putting their fingers in their ears and saying "I CAN"T HEAR YOU I CAN"T HEAR YOU"..

Metro has been blown so completely out of proportion it's ridiculous.


It's a disjointed mess. Microsoft has three operating systems: Windows Phone 8, RT and 8. I'm not sure what the point is. Do you need to have a separate OS because of a hardware requirement?

Technically, it might be OK. The problem is that it's so late. Everyone has already chosen iOS or Android in a phone. People already running Windows will probably wait and see before upgrading. It's like Vista in that uptake will be slow and the product will be labelled a dog. If Microsoft has to retool 8 like they did with Vista, they're going to end up seven or eight years behind Apple and Android. Game over.
 
2012-11-26 05:22:53 PM
I only have interest in the SurfacePro... Unfortunately for Microsoft they're waiting too damn long to release it and I'll probably buy something else instead.

I've been waiting to see the ThinkPad Tablet 2 but Lenovo seems to be taking their sweet time releasing that too.
 
2012-11-26 05:23:32 PM

L.D. Ablo: It's a disjointed mess. Microsoft has three operating systems: Windows Phone 8, RT and 8


hint: not so disjoint as you think.
 
2012-11-26 05:24:32 PM
The Surface pissed me off. It was just another tablet. Any given time I have three windows open and the Win8 interface isn't geared for that.

Productivity without a numberpad is greatly limited for real people.
 
2012-11-26 05:24:36 PM

Diogenes: I went to the Microsoft store that opened back in October here just to check it out. Some guy gave me a demo of Windows 8 and could not answer a single one of my questions. All he could do was demo it.

I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.


They're really not. These are the guys that graduated from the Geek Squad for being SMRT smart!
 
2012-11-26 05:25:04 PM
also.. Microsoft Tablet PC . let's be accurate as to who was first to market...

Apple did the same thing with PDAs - they had the Apple Newton, right concept.. but tech/market not ready. Palm comes along at the right time and is lucky
Microsoft did the same thing with tablets, except Apple was the benefactor of proper timing this time.
 
2012-11-26 05:25:38 PM

styckx: Shoppers at the Apple Store bought an average of 11 iPads per hour. Despite heavy TV, print and billboard advertising for the new Microsoft Surface tablet, not one was sold sold during the two hours Piper Jaffray spent monitoring that store. Doesn't bode well for Microsoft's answer to the iPad.

He said sold twice


He likes sold.
 
2012-11-26 05:25:56 PM

wildcardjack: The Surface pissed me off. It was just another tablet. Any given time I have three windows open and the Win8 interface isn't geared for that.

Productivity without a numberpad is greatly limited for real people.


i only use my numpad for gaming occasionally. i didn't know i wasn't "real people".
 
2012-11-26 05:26:30 PM

wildcardjack: Any given time I have three windows open and the Win8 interface isn't geared for that.


You can have 3 windows open in Win8 in Desktop mode.

i1-news.softpedia-static.com
 
2012-11-26 05:28:15 PM

tallguywithglasseson: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

Windows 8 on a tablet (e.g. Surface) makes sense.

On a PC or laptop, especially without a touchscreen, it does not. Yeah you can click a few times and get to a more-or-less mouse/key friendly UI, but so what?

No idea why they thought unifying the interfaces across devices with completely different input hardware made any sense whatsoever.


Because convergance is a thing, and pretty soon all of those different devices with completely different input hardware won't be. You are on the very leading edge of a wave that will ultimately end up with the Star Trek "Computer" button on your shirt.
 
2012-11-26 05:29:33 PM

RexTalionis: demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.

You can ssh into a server and run emacs on it through terminal?


Yes, you could do that, which would still be confusing.
Why would customers leave open ssh tunnels into their own/work servers on random laptops in an Apple store?
 
2012-11-26 05:30:12 PM
Personally, I'd take a Surface over an iPad any day. I can't really afford to be dropping that kind of money on a tablet right now, but if I did have the money for one, I'd get a Surface.
 
2012-11-26 05:30:18 PM

gingerjet: GAT_00: I don't get the corporational allegiance of Apple people either. I use Windows 7 and have Android phone, but I wouldn't call myself loyal to Microsoft or Google. They just have the better products. If you aren't an iFanatic and you actually compare products, you realize you're paying a farkton more for a product that is questionable at best in superiority. Plus I'm not buying shiat that's locked down like iPhones are.

You biatch about 'iFanatics' with the same zeal as those iFanatics you somehow despise . I at least get people who love certain things. I don't get those that feel the need to bash other peoples toys because you think your toy is prettier.

/and the 90s called - he wants his tired anti-apple arguments back


I just pick the best device for a certain capability. I have no loyalty to a brand as long as they continue to make products that are #1 for me in a certain criteria. For a tablet I think the iPad is the best because it's just so damn easy to set up and use and I don't think I've ever reset the thing in almost 2 years of use. My phone is a blackberry because I can write about 50 words a minute on it's keyboard without ever looking at the keyboard and I'm pretty sure it hasn't been reset in over a year. My PC is something I built myself with an SSD drive, dual Zotac GTX580 Blackops, i7960, on an ASUS WS mainboard - because I love PC Games.

My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.
 
2012-11-26 05:32:54 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: RexTalionis: demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.

You can ssh into a server and run emacs on it through terminal?

Yes, you could do that, which would still be confusing.
Why would customers leave open ssh tunnels into their own/work servers on random laptops in an Apple store?


Hey, you only asked how, you said nothing about why.
 
2012-11-26 05:34:13 PM

xynix: My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.


Again - be forewarned that the internal LCD for the Taichi doesn't have a touchscreen.
 
2012-11-26 05:35:42 PM

xynix: This is what I'm waiting for: The 8 hour Asus Taichi 

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x386]


Of all the Windows 8 ultra-lablet-topbook dealies, with all of their completely unique ways of doing both things (e.g. 180 degree hinge, screen flips in a frame, single hinge in the middle), I find the Taichi, which I had never seen before your post, to be the best form factor.

/run on sentences ftw
 
2012-11-26 05:35:47 PM

ThatGuyGreg: Meh, the Microsoft store near me is always jammed, a constant flow of people walking out with bags o' stuff. With the Christmas season in full gear, it's definitely more of an Xbox store than a Surface store, but whatever, I'll keep my cheerleading for various forms of sportsball.

I will never, in my life, understand peoples' wild-eyed allegiance to corporations. Generational thing? Probably... I just don't get it.


Chevy vs. Ford, etc.

It's far from generational.
 
2012-11-26 05:35:55 PM

ThatGuyGreg: Meh, the Microsoft store near me is always jammed, a constant flow of people walking out with bags o' stuff. With the Christmas season in full gear, it's definitely more of an Xbox store than a Surface store, but whatever, I'll keep my cheerleading for various forms of sportsball.

I will never, in my life, understand peoples' wild-eyed allegiance to corporations. Generational thing? Probably... I just don't get it.


Particularly as half those corporations would happily harvest the peasantry for organs and/or minerals if it was profitable and they thought they could get away with it, or at least have the buck stop with some middle management fall guy.
 
2012-11-26 05:37:58 PM

RexTalionis: demaL-demaL-yeH: RexTalionis: demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.

You can ssh into a server and run emacs on it through terminal?

Yes, you could do that, which would still be confusing.
Why would customers leave open ssh tunnels into their own/work servers on random laptops in an Apple store?

Hey, you only asked how, you said nothing about why.


Wait a sec.
You know, it might be fun to change emacs to load LISP* by default.

*emacs LISP is a real clusterfark.
 
2012-11-26 05:39:26 PM

Phaeon: xynix: This is what I'm waiting for: The 8 hour Asus Taichi 

[cdn.slashgear.com image 580x386]

Of all the Windows 8 ultra-lablet-topbook dealies, with all of their completely unique ways of doing both things (e.g. 180 degree hinge, screen flips in a frame, single hinge in the middle), I find the Taichi, which I had never seen before your post, to be the best form factor.

/run on sentences ftw


Do the Windows 8 ultra-lablet-topbook dealies flip between desktop mode and tablet mode depending upon which input screen you are using?
 
2012-11-26 05:40:02 PM
I have an iPad. I'd rather have a Surface.

Sure, the iPad is a fine little toy. The Surface looks like an actual tool to do real 'work'.
 
2012-11-26 05:41:19 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: Wait a sec.
You know, it might be fun to change emacs to load LISP* by default.

*emacs LISP is a real clusterfark.


Meh, never used it. Although, to be honest, how different can it really be from regular LISP?
 
2012-11-26 05:43:15 PM

Cinaed: The Surface looks like an actual tool to do real 'work'.


the Surface Pro yes, the Surface RT is an ipad with a better keyboard, USB and microSD.
 
2012-11-26 05:43:21 PM

RexTalionis: xynix: My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.

Again - be forewarned that the internal LCD for the Taichi doesn't have a touchscreen.


I was feeling done in, couldn't win
I'd only ever moused before.
I thought there's no use getting on tactile UI
It only leads to trouble and RSI...

Now all I want to know is how to go
I've tapped and gasped and I want more
Forget your resistance, no single-touch existence
I've got fingers to stretch, I need capacitance:

Taichi taichi taichi touch me, your screen is so dirty
Poke me, pinch me and scroll me,
Tablet of the night.
 
2012-11-26 05:45:02 PM

Diogenes: I went to the Microsoft store that opened back in October here just to check it out. Some guy gave me a demo of Windows 8 and could not answer a single one of my questions. All he could do was demo it.

I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.


Could be that iPads have been out a lot longer than Microsoft tablets. Most people (not just "geniuses") know how to use iPads these days.

Don't have either and don't plan to ever.
 
2012-11-26 05:45:04 PM
I was previously thinking of buying a Windows 8 Ultrabook convertible, specifically the Lenovo Ideapad Yoga, but now I'm deciding against it.

hothardware.com
Nothing against Windows 8 - I've tried it and I like it just fine. It's just that I don't use laptops anymore. I have a Windows 7 laptop with 4 GBs of RAM and more than enough power for anything I need to do and I haven't even flipped it on in weeks. Tablet devices have completely taken over the niche that I used to use laptops for.
 
2012-11-26 05:45:06 PM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: Once again, MS arrives a few years late and millions of dollars short, then wonders why no one will buy their stuff. Did the Windows Phone and the Zune teach them nothing?


MS has had a mobile OS since 1996. Long before Mr Turtleneck even dreamed of making a smart phone.

I bet you think Apple invented the MP3 player and the tablet computer too.
 
2012-11-26 05:46:29 PM

Theaetetus: RexTalionis: xynix: My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.

Again - be forewarned that the internal LCD for the Taichi doesn't have a touchscreen.

I was feeling done in, couldn't win
I'd only ever moused before.
I thought there's no use getting on tactile UI
It only leads to trouble and RSI...

Now all I want to know is how to go
I've tapped and gasped and I want more
Forget your resistance, no single-touch existence
I've got fingers to stretch, I need capacitance:

Taichi taichi taichi touch me, your screen is so dirty
Poke me, pinch me and scroll me,
Tablet of the night.


Janet, you slut.
 
2012-11-26 05:48:30 PM

Theaetetus: zedster: EatHam: There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.

No, but there is a superior philosophy, if walled gardens win the consumers lose

Agreed. Can you send me a copy of the source code for Windows 8, incidentally? Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?


There's a difference between open source and an open platform and you know it.
 
2012-11-26 05:50:53 PM
One of the people my girlfriend works with bought a Surface and she really likes the look and feel of the device. I took her out to a local mall and picked one up as an early Christmas present (64GB model, plus the keyboard cover as a compliment to the touch-type cover).

The Surface is pretty nifty and the girl's very happy with it. I'm a bit irked by the lack of 3G (the Surface is currently WiFi only), but when you're able to keep it fed with data it's a very fun experience. Streaming Netflix with it while lying in bed is pretty nice and Win8 is a very friendly addition to my home network (automatic integration of most common functions).

I can't imagine buying one for myself - can't imagine buying an iPad either. I'm not much of a tablet person. (I see them as changing the form factor I would do certain activities with, rather than simplifying or consolidating those activities.)
 
2012-11-26 05:51:37 PM

ParanoidAgnostic: Theaetetus: zedster: EatHam: There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.

No, but there is a superior philosophy, if walled gardens win the consumers lose

Agreed. Can you send me a copy of the source code for Windows 8, incidentally? Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?


There's a difference between open source and an open platform and you know it.


The comment I was remarking on was between Android and iOS, Android is a modified Apache license that is barley copyleft but at least Google lets you jailbreak without having to root.

That being said Paranoid is right as well
 
2012-11-26 05:53:21 PM
I've never had anything but Microsoft computers running Windows and so on black Friday I bought a higher range laptop because one of my 2 which both ran 7 conked out on me and without any research I bought a Toshiba with an i7 Intel processor, 640 GB HDD and 6GB or ram. I have been wrestling with 8 ever since and I'm looking for a 7 disc so I can turn it into something I can feasibly use. I have a little message for everybody at Microsoft from Steve Ballmer on down.

25.media.tumblr.com

And no, firing the head of Windows, Sinofsky, last week does nothing to ameliorate the fix I'm in now with a completely new interface after learning Windows since 3.1 and 95. Change everything back and give me a free farking copy you farking rat bastards.
 
2012-11-26 05:54:02 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.


??? I've opened emacs on OS X many many times, maybe they changed it in more recent versions but pretty sure it's in the default install, may not be the default editor

//always leave the doctor program in emacs open at the stores
 
2012-11-26 05:54:47 PM

zedster: Diogenes: I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.

IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them


Most entertaining thing to do is to type kill -9 -1 and walk away.

/ even better, sudo kill -9 -1
// sudo rm -rf?
 
2012-11-26 05:56:10 PM

OscarTamerz: I've never had anything but Microsoft computers running Windows and so on black Friday I bought a higher range laptop because one of my 2 which both ran 7 conked out on me and without any research I bought a Toshiba with an i7 Intel processor, 640 GB HDD and 6GB or ram. I have been wrestling with 8 ever since and I'm looking for a 7 disc so I can turn it into something I can feasibly use. I have a little message for everybody at Microsoft from Steve Ballmer on down.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 750x500]

And no, firing the head of Windows, Sinofsky, last week does nothing to ameliorate the fix I'm in now with a completely new interface after learning Windows since 3.1 and 95. Change everything back and give me a free farking copy you farking rat bastards.


Question: Aren't you a little teensy weensy bit at fault for buying something without trying it out first?
 
2012-11-26 05:56:43 PM

Rockstone: zedster: Diogenes: I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.

IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Most entertaining thing to do is to type kill -9 -1 and walk away.

/ even better, sudo kill -9 -1
// sudo rm -rf?


you would need to enable the root account and know an admin users pw
 
2012-11-26 05:57:29 PM

ThatGuyGreg: I will never, in my life, understand peoples' wild-eyed allegiance to corporations. Generational thing? Probably... I just don't get it.


bite-prod.s3.amazonaws.com

nbcsportsmedia3.msnbc.com

IF you consider that these are also multi-million dollar corporations as well, it doesn't seem that weird. People just have a need to belong to a community, and those geeky among us will get sucked into tech or entertainment turf wars just as easily as most people get into sports team rivalries. On the bright side, at least it is not this:

static.guim.co.uk
 
2012-11-26 05:57:35 PM

Theaetetus: Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?


you do realize you can still write traditional desktop apps, and have them installed the traditional way - right?

or are you just concern trolling with your head up your ass?
 
2012-11-26 05:58:39 PM

OscarTamerz: I've never had anything but Microsoft computers running Windows and so on black Friday I bought a higher range laptop because one of my 2 which both ran 7 conked out on me and without any research I bought a Toshiba with an i7 Intel processor, 640 GB HDD and 6GB or ram. I have been wrestling with 8 ever since and I'm looking for a 7 disc so I can turn it into something I can feasibly use. I have a little message for everybody at Microsoft from Steve Ballmer on down.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 750x500]

And no, firing the head of Windows, Sinofsky, last week does nothing to ameliorate the fix I'm in now with a completely new interface after learning Windows since 3.1 and 95. Change everything back and give me a free farking copy you farking rat bastards.


Stardock Start8
 
2012-11-26 06:00:07 PM
I tried 8, couldn't stand it. I'm sure it's easier on a tablet but I really don't care about Windows running on a tablet. I'm guessing this is likely a sign most people don't either.

Not to mention, as someone that works in Healthcare IT, I found the idea of trying to teach 8 to staff--nauseating. 7 is solid, that's where I (we) will be staying--as I suspect 9 will be absent Metro.
 
2012-11-26 06:00:20 PM

Kazan: Theaetetus: Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?

you do realize you can still write traditional desktop apps, and have them installed the traditional way - right?

or are you just concern trolling with your head up your ass?


The latter, albeit to make a point about the widespread ubiquity of "walled gardens" and how that complaint shows a stunning naivete.
 
2012-11-26 06:00:33 PM
I'm still waiting on the Surface Pro.
 
2012-11-26 06:02:33 PM

Kazan: Grand_Moff_Joseph: Once again, MS arrives a few years late and millions of dollars short, then wonders why no one will buy their stuff. Did the Windows Phone and the Zune teach them nothing?

SweetSaws: Ok, i tried it out by installing it on a virtual machine (Hyper-V) with 4 GB of memory, 1 processor, and it seemed to lag quite a bit. Also, i couldn't figure out how to enable remote access. ALSO, NO GOD DAMN START BUTTON. So, I faced all of these fundamental problems in the first 5 minutes of using it. What's so good about it?

did your host have SLAT enabled?

also Wiki: Features New to Windows 8

/required disclaimer: i work for M
//I hate the new start screen too


SLAT? I don't think so. I'll have to check that out thanks.
 
2012-11-26 06:02:54 PM

Theaetetus: The latter, albeit to make a point about the widespread ubiquity of "walled gardens" and how that complaint shows a stunning naivete.


there are different levels of walled gardens though. Apple's is "Fort Knox" (walled software, hardware, etc), whereas Windows Store is "US/Canada Border" (Metro App QA gate), Android is "spread legged hooker" (With just as many diseases)
 
2012-11-26 06:04:03 PM

SweetSaws: SLAT? I don't think so. I'll have to check that out thanks.


no SLAT on a VM host is a huge perf negative. strictly speaking we don't support hardware without SLAT anymore for HyperV (Windows Client HyperV in fact refuses to enable, Server HyperV will still run - but we don't officially support it).
 
2012-11-26 06:04:36 PM

TheAgeOfEgos: Not to mention, as someone that works in Healthcare IT, I found the idea of trying to teach 8 to staff--nauseating. 7 is solid, that's where I (we) will be staying--as I suspect 9 will be absent Metro.


Good Idea: Going to Home Depot to get tiles
Bad Idea: Going to the Microsoft store to get tiles

cdn.mactrast.com

/metro is horrible
 
2012-11-26 06:06:50 PM
My boss got the Surface the day it came out and is committed to the belief that we will all be using one in nine months. I've had to stop him a few times from running down to Best Buy and buying one for everyone in our group to replace our desktops with dual 23" monitor setups.

It's not easy being an IT Manager somedays.
 
2012-11-26 06:07:37 PM

zedster: TheAgeOfEgos: Not to mention, as someone that works in Healthcare IT, I found the idea of trying to teach 8 to staff--nauseating. 7 is solid, that's where I (we) will be staying--as I suspect 9 will be absent Metro.

Good Idea: Going to Home Depot to get tiles
Bad Idea: Going to the Microsoft store to get tiles

[cdn.mactrast.com image 580x392]

/metro is horrible


image inaccurate. completely ignoring desktop apps (aka all apps written prior to win 8) as usual.

color scheme is configurable.
 
2012-11-26 06:08:11 PM

GAT_00: ThatGuyGreg: Meh, the Microsoft store near me is always jammed, a constant flow of people walking out with bags o' stuff. With the Christmas season in full gear, it's definitely more of an Xbox store than a Surface store, but whatever, I'll keep my cheerleading for various forms of sportsball.

I will never, in my life, understand peoples' wild-eyed allegiance to corporations. Generational thing? Probably... I just don't get it.

I don't get the corporational allegiance of Apple people either. I use Windows 7 and have Android phone, but I wouldn't call myself loyal to Microsoft or Google. They just have the better products. If you aren't an iFanatic and you actually compare products, you realize you're paying a farkton more for a product that is questionable at best in superiority. Plus I'm not buying shiat that's locked down like iPhones are.


i bought an ipad pretty much for that locked down ecosystem, it's hard to beat having 60+ apps and your entire music collection on a new device within an hour of taking it out of the box

being locked down never really bothered me to begin with, it's all in how you use said device, case in point i have a win7 custom pc i've got customized to hell and back

now what would drive me crazy is stuff being locked down on a device that's predominantly unlocked... ie: if Windows became a walled garden, i would lose my shiat
 
2012-11-26 06:09:13 PM

zedster: /metro is horrible


I don't think Metro is bad, it's just that the problem is that the hardware isn't consistent enough to make Metro a good experience for everybody. Desktop users and non-touchscreen laptop users with have a significantly different experience with Windows 8 than a touchscreen user with an All-in-one or a tablet.

It's kind of like the Vista-ready hardware problem all over again.
 
2012-11-26 06:09:38 PM

Skarekrough: My boss got the Surface the day it came out and is committed to the belief that we will all be using one in nine months. I've had to stop him a few times from running down to Best Buy and buying one for everyone in our group to replace our desktops with dual 23" monitor setups.

It's not easy being an IT Manager somedays.


Hey, at least everyone will get some paid time off when they are put on disability from using the keyboard covers for typing and developing major carpal tunnel.
 
2012-11-26 06:12:02 PM

Kazan: image inaccurate. completely ignoring desktop apps (aka all apps written prior to win 8) as usual.

color scheme is configurable.


Hey, Kazan - since you work for Microsoft, does Windows 8 have native support for motion control devices like a Kinect for PC or Leap Motion?
 
2012-11-26 06:18:00 PM

Kazan: Theaetetus: The latter, albeit to make a point about the widespread ubiquity of "walled gardens" and how that complaint shows a stunning naivete.

there are different levels of walled gardens though. Apple's is "Fort Knox" (walled software, hardware, etc) whereas Windows Store is "US/Canada Border" (Metro App QA gate)


you do realize you can still write traditional desktop apps, and have them installed the traditional way - right?

Yes, I know you're referring to iOS rather than OSX, but you had the same response when I was referring to Windows Phone rather than Windows desktop OS. Both are locked down on mobile devices and wide open on desktops or laptops.

Android is "spread legged hooker" (With just as many diseases)

Although, that said, many Android device manufacturers include a walled garden of pre-installed proprietary apps that you can't remove without rooting and wiping the device. So, maybe Android is an "unfenced lawn" in front of the garden.
 
2012-11-26 06:19:05 PM

zedster: TheAgeOfEgos: Not to mention, as someone that works in Healthcare IT, I found the idea of trying to teach 8 to staff--nauseating. 7 is solid, that's where I (we) will be staying--as I suspect 9 will be absent Metro.

Good Idea: Going to Home Depot to get tiles
Bad Idea: Going to the Microsoft store to get tiles

[cdn.mactrast.com image 580x392]

/metro is horrible



Well, I'm certainly not a fan. I'm willing to bet we get a Start8 style SP where you can use the traditional 7 launch option minus the Metro junk. Considering;

Steven Sinofsky appears to have been let go (8 was his baby and he's been around forever)
Start8 is experiencing very heavy sales


I like what's under the hood--just don't like how the desktop looks or Metro.
 
2012-11-26 06:20:09 PM

RexTalionis: zedster: /metro is horrible

I don't think Metro is bad, it's just that the problem is that the hardware isn't consistent enough to make Metro a good experience for everybody. Desktop users and non-touchscreen laptop users with have a significantly different experience with Windows 8 than a touchscreen user with an All-in-one or a tablet.

It's kind of like the Vista-ready hardware problem all over again.


Hell, even something as simple as a decent trackpad could help immensely, like with OS X which is able to use a lot of really helpful swiping gestures simply because they can depend on most of the hardware being able to support multi-finger gestures because their laptops have had excellent trackpads for years, compared to Windows where the trackpad input is generally sucky.
 
2012-11-26 06:21:18 PM

TheAgeOfEgos: Well, I'm certainly not a fan. I'm willing to bet we get a Start8 style SP where you can use the traditional 7 launch option minus the Metro junk. Considering;

Steven Sinofsky appears to have been let go (8 was his baby and he's been around forever)
Start8 is experiencing very heavy sales


I like what's under the hood--just don't like how the desktop looks or Metro.


I haven't used 8 since RC1, it was such a bad experience I didn't try any later releases. That being said, can't you reg hack back the start menu/Desktop?
 
2012-11-26 06:23:18 PM

Cinaed: The Surface looks like an actual tool to do real 'work'.


Maybe Microsoft should consider advertising this capability in their Surface commercials, instead of showing off how Demographically Curated Young People can do dance routines with them where they swap keyboard/covers with each other.

/I say the same thing twice
//I say the same thing twice
 
2012-11-26 06:24:43 PM

Theaetetus: Kazan: Theaetetus: Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?

you do realize you can still write traditional desktop apps, and have them installed the traditional way - right?

or are you just concern trolling with your head up your ass?

The latter, albeit to make a point about the widespread ubiquity of "walled gardens" and how that complaint shows a stunning naivete.


But as the text you quoted clearly demonstrates that Windows 8 isn't a walled garden I don't think you're making that point well.

I've heard, although not bothered to confirm for myself that the tablet (non-intel) version is a walled garden (only apps from the app store allowed) in which case I'll be treating it like the iPad: a toy, fake computer that I'm not going to waste my time or money on.

I've also heard disturbing rumors that windows 9 will go completely walled-garden. I don't want to believe it and I doubt MS hates their customers that much... but if it happens I'm following Valve to Linux
 
2012-11-26 06:28:23 PM
They watched the store for two whole hours? Well Microsoft may as well close up shop and go out of business, there's no hope for them now.
 
2012-11-26 06:29:19 PM
Went to the Microsoft Store in Palo Alto a while ago. It was pretty much dead, except for a few kids playing with the XBox in the back.

The Apple Store (which is right next door, of course) was hoppin'.
 
2012-11-26 06:30:21 PM

ParanoidAgnostic: But as the text you quoted clearly demonstrates that Windows 8 isn't a walled garden I don't think you're making that point well.


See above - neither is OSX.

If we're talking about smartphone operating systems, then Windows Phone is just as much a walled garden as iOS.
 
2012-11-26 06:30:58 PM

zedster: Rockstone: zedster: Diogenes: I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.

IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Most entertaining thing to do is to type kill -9 -1 and walk away.

/ even better, sudo kill -9 -1
// sudo rm -rf?

you would need to enable the root account and know an admin users pw


The scary part? From what I recall, there is no admin password, and root is enabled.
 
2012-11-26 06:32:33 PM

Kazan: Theaetetus: Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?

you do realize you can still write traditional desktop apps, and have them installed the traditional way - right?

or are you just concern trolling with your head up your ass?


Theaetetus' usually Apple shilling aside, Surface RT only allows apps, not executables. That being said, all programs developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro; it's just a matter of whether Microsoft decides to open up installation on RT to Windows 8 programs outside of the app store. If they're smart (big if), they would.
 
2012-11-26 06:33:55 PM

EatHam: There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.


I know which one crashes more, too.
 
2012-11-26 06:35:13 PM
Eh, they are only scratching the surface in sales.
 
2012-11-26 06:37:16 PM
"Sold sold"? Is that like "rape rape"?
 
2012-11-26 06:38:50 PM

OscarTamerz: I've never had anything but Microsoft computers running Windows and so on black Friday I bought a higher range laptop because one of my 2 which both ran 7 conked out on me and without any research I bought a Toshiba with an i7 Intel processor, 640 GB HDD and 6GB or ram. I have been wrestling with 8 ever since and I'm looking for a 7 disc so I can turn it into something I can feasibly use. I have a little message for everybody at Microsoft from Steve Ballmer on down.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 750x500]

And no, firing the head of Windows, Sinofsky, last week does nothing to ameliorate the fix I'm in now with a completely new interface after learning Windows since 3.1 and 95. Change everything back and give me a free farking copy you farking rat bastards.


So, uh, can't figure out a small change in an era when you have almost unfettered access to a resource with a near unlimited amount of information on any given topic, including the Windows 8 interface?

You must be a really bright young boy.
 
2012-11-26 06:39:31 PM
Honestly... I have Windows 8 on my desktop, and I like it. I work in desktop mode most of the time, and it's just the same as it was in Windows 7.

I think a lot of people complaining about Windows 8 haven't used it much, and don't realize that the desktop is the same thing as in Windows 7, but with a whole bunch of behind-the-scenes improvements.

To each their own, but I'm glad I upgraded. Everything's faster, the apps in the Start Menu are cool, and it still feels like the Windows I'm used to.
 
2012-11-26 06:40:48 PM

imgod2u: That being said, all programs developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro


Only if that program was compiled to run on ARM processors as well as x64/x86. The developer has the option to choose whether or not to compile for ARM and Windows RT platforms. Windows RT installations cannot natively run x86 or x64 applications.
 
2012-11-26 06:41:14 PM

maxwellton: "Sold sold"? Is that like "rape rape"?


Depends on whether or not it's legitimate.
 
2012-11-26 06:42:00 PM

zedster: demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.

??? I've opened emacs on OS X many many times, maybe they changed it in more recent versions but pretty sure it's in the default install, may not be the default editor

//always leave the doctor program in emacs open at the stores


*goes to machine without XCode or X11 installed*
Hmm. So it is.

Why do you feel a need to leave ELIZA open at Apple stores?
 
2012-11-26 06:42:43 PM
Finally went hands on with Metro and...not sure all the fuss.

It is a desktop with icons. Pick your taste and you might think the icons are ugly and the color scheme retina scorching but they're still just icons. The whole "start menu" thing is overblown since I don't really open the Start Menu. I don't touch the thing all that much and most likely neither do you - I open a browser and office apps - since I have crap I need on my desktop as icons where they are accessible.

The worst thing was the drag down to close that doesn't work well on a desktop motif.
 
2012-11-26 06:42:46 PM

RexTalionis: imgod2u: That being said, all programs developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro

Only if that program was compiled to run on ARM processors as well as x64/x86. The developer has the option to choose whether or not to compile for ARM and Windows RT platforms. Windows RT installations cannot natively run x86 or x64 applications.


The only real difference (from what I have been able to gather) is whether or not the developer checks a few boxes in Visual Studio 2012.
 
2012-11-26 06:43:13 PM

RexTalionis: xynix: My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.

Again - be forewarned that the internal LCD for the Taichi doesn't have a touchscreen.


I realize that and frankly wouldn't see a use for the main screen to be touchable. I don't see myself typing and touch screening but flipping it over and then being able to use it as a pad would be useful. I'm sure some people will complain that the main screen is not touch enabled but I think the usefulness of such a trait would be minimal at best.
 
2012-11-26 06:44:03 PM

Marine1: RexTalionis: imgod2u: That being said, all programs developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro

Only if that program was compiled to run on ARM processors as well as x64/x86. The developer has the option to choose whether or not to compile for ARM and Windows RT platforms. Windows RT installations cannot natively run x86 or x64 applications.

The only real difference (from what I have been able to gather) is whether or not the developer checks a few boxes in Visual Studio 2012.


Yeah, that's the impression I got as well, but it's not exactly true that any program developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro - the developer could simply choose not to check the RT checkbox...
 
2012-11-26 06:45:58 PM

xynix: RexTalionis: xynix: My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.

Again - be forewarned that the internal LCD for the Taichi doesn't have a touchscreen.

I realize that and frankly wouldn't see a use for the main screen to be touchable. I don't see myself typing and touch screening but flipping it over and then being able to use it as a pad would be useful. I'm sure some people will complain that the main screen is not touch enabled but I think the usefulness of such a trait would be minimal at best.


To be honest with you, I have a Tablet (a Transformer, right now, but it's actually tablet #3) and now I have the instinctive urge to go up to devices and touch the screen. And usually, I'll wind up looking pretty stupid.
 
2012-11-26 06:47:27 PM
I feel like I am living in bizarro world. I installed Win8 with great trepidation but loved it almost immediately. I was used to the FEW new controls there are within an hour and every once in a while I have to Google something I can't figure out. I actually don't think I've had to Google where stuff is any more than I did when switching to Vista and 7.

And once I was used to it and configured it the way I liked it, it is faster and smoother than 7. The start menu was completely useless past the few pinned items.
 
2012-11-26 06:54:26 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.

??? I've opened emacs on OS X many many times, maybe they changed it in more recent versions but pretty sure it's in the default install, may not be the default editor

//always leave the doctor program in emacs open at the stores

*goes to machine without XCode or X11 installed*
Hmm. So it is.

Why do you feel a need to leave ELIZA open at Apple stores?


I just felt they may need a shrink or someone to listen to their #firstworldproblems I'm helpful like that
 
2012-11-26 06:56:50 PM
The staff were probably confused that a greasy manchild came into their store to try showing off by doing such a trivial and completely pointless task in the first place. I imagine the thinking something like "why did he bother doing that when it serves no purpose in this context? Does he think this will make up for his mother not loving him enough or his father being disappointed in him?"
 
2012-11-26 07:01:13 PM
I JUST got a laptop with Windows 8 and my only complaint is I'm not used to it!

I don't love it or hate it, but you really have to learn how to use it.

Not a complaint, more of an admittance that I fear change.

(also, it was like 5 steps to shut it down! I literally couldn't find the "shut down" button for 10 minutes)
 
2012-11-26 07:02:52 PM
i.imgur.com

/fark them both...
 
2012-11-26 07:03:17 PM

zedster: Why do you feel a need to leave ELIZA open at Apple stores?

I just felt they may need a shrink or someone to listen to their #firstworldproblems I'm helpful like that


Can you elaborate on that?
 
2012-11-26 07:04:53 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: Why do you feel a need to leave ELIZA open at Apple stores?

I just felt they may need a shrink or someone to listen to their #firstworldproblems I'm helpful like that

Can you elaborate on that?


well played, took me a sec
 
2012-11-26 07:12:27 PM

Theaetetus: ParanoidAgnostic: But as the text you quoted clearly demonstrates that Windows 8 isn't a walled garden I don't think you're making that point well.

See above - neither is OSX.


Well that's half of the walled garden equation. The other is allowing it to run on non-Apple hardware.

If we're talking about smartphone operating systems, then Windows Phone is just as much a walled garden as iOS.

See that part of my reply that you didn't include in the quote.

Windows RT is just as customer-hating as IOs and I want nothing to do with it.

On the other hand, I can't wait to get my hands on an Windows 8 Pro tablet. Before Apple screwed up the concept tablets were real computers, just with a touch screen in place of the mouse and keyboard. Apple turned them into hand held web-browsers surrounded by minigames. Hopefully the full-featured surfaces will do something to reverse that trend.
 
2012-11-26 07:14:35 PM

buntz: (also, it was like 5 steps to shut it down! I literally couldn't find the "shut down" button for 10 minutes)


I am not an MS shill but I have always shut down my systems like so:

cmd + r

shutdown /r /t 000 for a restart

or

shutdown /s /t 000 for a full system powerdown.
 
2012-11-26 07:17:12 PM

Caelistis: buntz: (also, it was like 5 steps to shut it down! I literally couldn't find the "shut down" button for 10 minutes)

I am not an MS shill but I have always shut down my systems like so:

cmd + r

shutdown /r /t 000 for a restart

or

shutdown /s /t 000 for a full system powerdown.


I am a retard.

That is CONTROL + R

/Now feels very old
 
2012-11-26 07:55:24 PM
images.gizmag.com

This is what I'm waiting for. Hang on. It's sitting right here on my desk. I guess I'm not waiting any more.
 
2012-11-26 07:59:44 PM

RexTalionis: Hey, Kazan - since you work for Microsoft, does Windows 8 have native support for motion control devices like a Kinect for PC or Leap Motion?


honestly I have no idea.. i work on Server Clustering, and not on HCI

Theaetetus: Although, that said, many Android device manufacturers include a walled garden of pre-installed proprietary apps that you can't remove without rooting and wiping the device. So, maybe Android is an "unfenced lawn" in front of the garden.


true. and carrier/vendor installed apps on Windows Phone 7/8 must be uninstallable as any other ap is (no rooting needed, etc).
 
2012-11-26 07:59:53 PM

jtown: [images.gizmag.com image 530x298]

This is what I'm waiting for. Hang on. It's sitting right here on my desk. I guess I'm not waiting any more.


If Android weren't as weird as it is on the UI front, I'd go for it.
 
2012-11-26 08:01:53 PM

Beta Tested: I feel like I am living in bizarro world. I installed Win8 with great trepidation but loved it almost immediately. I was used to the FEW new controls there are within an hour and every once in a while I have to Google something I can't figure out. I actually don't think I've had to Google where stuff is any more than I did when switching to Vista and 7.

And once I was used to it and configured it the way I liked it, it is faster and smoother than 7. The start menu was completely useless past the few pinned items.


You're online, in a forum that pushes and promotes polarization. Oddly enough, folks are not just buying Surface tablets, but using them, too, and enjoying the experience. As well as Apple tablets, and Android tablets, and...

Apple folks see threats, not products, and are performing all sorts of media attacks, both paid and unpaid, to push back on both Microsoft and Google's product offerings. Every time someone buys a Microsoft or Google tablet, Apple isn't just losing that razor-thin hardware profit, but the luscious, fatted software profit on which their efforts are based. There are kids romping outside of Apple's playground. It's fun to watch, especially if you're like me and you see this silly, obvious wave across just about every IT-savvy online media outlet.

I'm sure danah boyd's having a laugh, too.
 
2012-11-26 08:08:29 PM
How's that dog food tasting now, Microsoft biatches?
 
2012-11-26 08:09:46 PM

gingerjet: GAT_00: I don't get the corporational allegiance of Apple people either. I use Windows 7 and have Android phone, but I wouldn't call myself loyal to Microsoft or Google. They just have the better products. If you aren't an iFanatic and you actually compare products, you realize you're paying a farkton more for a product that is questionable at best in superiority. Plus I'm not buying shiat that's locked down like iPhones are.

You biatch about 'iFanatics' with the same zeal as those iFanatics you somehow despise . I at least get people who love certain things. I don't get those that feel the need to bash other peoples toys because you think your toy is prettier.

/and the 90s called - he wants his tired anti-apple arguments back


Much more hysterical that he's in a thread about Microsoft's locked down Surface tablet, yet he conveniently ignores that little fact in his display of Apple derangement syndrome.
 
2012-11-26 08:14:29 PM

Marine1: If Android weren't as weird as it is on the UI front, I'd go for it.


??

Some of the third-party skins on Android (Motoblur, etc) have been pretty weird on the UI front. A few apps are awful (true on iOS too). But stock-Google-goodness 4.0/.1/.2 like the Nexus tablets? As the old saying goes, "the only intuitive interface is the nipple", but it doesn't seem terribly weird to me.
 
2012-11-26 08:22:39 PM
Regardless of one's opinion of the Surface, the iPad is still an overrated piece of sh*t with a kludgy UI. Sure it's popular. So is Justin Bieber.
 
2012-11-26 08:33:21 PM

L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.


No, no it isn't. Yes, Metro is crap, but 8 is very stable and nimble and performs well. The problem with Vista had nothing to do with its interface. It was buggy, unstable, and incompatible with everything.
 
2012-11-26 08:40:19 PM
I don't think I'd ever buy something like that from a physical store. Almost always can find better deals online.
 
2012-11-26 08:53:19 PM

iaazathot: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

No, no it isn't. Yes, Metro is crap, but 8 is very stable and nimble and performs well. The problem with Vista had nothing to do with its interface. It was buggy, unstable, and incompatible with everything.


^ This.. Windows 8 is amazing outside of Metro.. Metro itself isn't all that bad either once you learn how to use it...

The startup time blew me away the most.
 
2012-11-26 08:55:42 PM
The problem with Apple products is that their single greatest innovation is restricting the software that can run on idevices.

This control is praised by icultista because it protects them from installing harmful software that Apple doesnt't control, that might use bluetooth creatively or enable inappropriate use of mp3s, etc.

/ Seems a bit Orwellian. Maybe they should dredge up the original Macintosh ad.
 
2012-11-26 09:03:41 PM

GAT_00: EatHam: There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.

I try using an iPhone, and I feel like a kid playing with a toy. Like those emergency phones you can get for kids that call Mom, Dad, and 911, but nothing else. It's one goddamn button. I have a Droid 4 and I LOVE the keyboard, plus there is something besides a home button.


That's funny. When I was a kid, I used to love pushing buttons. Now, I just want to get shiat done. I don't do a lot of typing on my phone, so the added thickness and weight of a physical keyboard are trade-offs I do not wish to make. Glad you like your phone, though. Also glad there are lots of good options out there.
 
2012-11-26 09:16:38 PM
The hyperactive wide-eyed 'Up With People!' style commercials just seem desperate. LOOK AT THIS AWESOME COOL NEW THING! Yeah, whatever.

I'd love to try out the tiles on a tablet - I always love poking around a novel new interface - but there is no way in hell the company I work for is ever going to adopt Windows 8. In this economy we just don't have the the time to waste on employees trying to learn a whole new method of getting their work done.

Time is money.
 
2012-11-26 09:21:05 PM

ParanoidAgnostic: I've also heard disturbing rumors that windows 9 will go completely walled-garden.


won't happen. tell whoever told you that to get their head out of their ass and imagine all the lawsuits microsoft wants to avoid
 
2012-11-26 09:31:07 PM

Kazan: ParanoidAgnostic: I've also heard disturbing rumors that windows 9 will go completely walled-garden.

won't happen. tell whoever told you that to get their head out of their ass and imagine all the lawsuits microsoft wants to avoid


I know, it sounds stupid. But with Windows RT MS seems determined to copy the worst 'feature' of iOS. When they get a taste of getting a cut of all software sold for their system I worry they won't want to go back to the old ways.
 
2012-11-26 09:37:18 PM

ParanoidAgnostic: But with Windows RT MS seems determined to copy the worst 'feature' of iOS


to us more technical users a walled garden is a bad thing... to a lot of the "technotards" (as my mom puts it) it protects tthem from their own stupidity.. that makes IT support happy. We're not the market for iPad/Surface RT.

Surface Pro would be more us.. it's an ultrabook in the surface chassis (higher res display, intel i5, etc)
 
2012-11-26 10:04:36 PM
Apple is the Halliburton of the 99%'rs.
 
2012-11-26 10:15:30 PM

Diogenes: I went to the Microsoft store that opened back in October here just to check it out. Some guy gave me a demo of Windows 8 and could not answer a single one of my questions. All he could do was demo it.


Conversely, At the Microsoft store in Oak Brook, Illinois, I talked to a guy about the business system integration features of the touch-sensitive table-computing device that USED to be called Surface and is now called Pixelsense. He was able to explain how this giant touch-sensitive TV screen with legs could draw data out of handheld devices, Excel spreadsheets and web sources to build pretty intuitive visualization systems. I don't have any immediate need for such a thing but I was able to see how it could be used for all sorts of data analysis. When I asked him something he didn't immediately know about, he told me that someone would get back to me about it. And they did.

As far as I can tell, Apple stores are smelly places filled with people who want to buy headphones and different cases for their istuff, and forlorn bastards who are waiting for someone to fix their broken istuff.
 
2012-11-26 10:16:10 PM

ParanoidAgnostic: Kazan: ParanoidAgnostic: I've also heard disturbing rumors that windows 9 will go completely walled-garden.

won't happen. tell whoever told you that to get their head out of their ass and imagine all the lawsuits microsoft wants to avoid

I know, it sounds stupid. But with Windows RT MS seems determined to copy the worst 'feature' of iOS. When they get a taste of getting a cut of all software sold for their system I worry they won't want to go back to the old ways.


I doubt it's likely they'd adopt that approach for desktops/laptops, BUT people have been dissing Microsoft's security efforts for years. A closed, wall-garden system eliminates 95% of the security battlefront in one swoop.

As with everything in computing, it's a matter of picking your poison.
 
2012-11-26 10:19:27 PM

styckx: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

Windows 8 is actually really good.. Microsoft just has done an absolutely shiatty job advertising it and any questions and critiques regarding it are responded by putting their fingers in their ears and saying "I CAN"T HEAR YOU I CAN"T HEAR YOU"..

Metro has been blown so completely out of proportion it's ridiculous.


Really good for touch, not so much for desktop computing, which is why they include a classic version for not touch products.

Useit did a pretty thorough user testing analysis of the interface and breaks down most of its flaws pretty well. Pretty much all of it can be fixed in 9 or whatever comes next, but it definitely sounds like it needs some work.

Personally I am excited about the Pro version of the Surface, if the pen included has pressure sensitivity. There are really very few affordable choices out there for laptops that you can draw on. If it's powerful and has decent pressure sensitivity, I would buy one to have as a portable drawing pad.
 
2012-11-26 10:36:57 PM
I'm not surprised that the Surface RT isn't selling much. I am, along with most of the people that I know, are waiting for the Windows 8 version to come out as none of us have any real use for a tablet os.
 
2012-11-26 10:40:33 PM

RexTalionis: imgod2u: That being said, all programs developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro

Only if that program was compiled to run on ARM processors as well as x64/x86. The developer has the option to choose whether or not to compile for ARM and Windows RT platforms. Windows RT installations cannot natively run x86 or x64 applications.


IIRC, Windows 8 development emulates much of Android in that it runs on an interpreter (.Net runtime) rather than compiling to native code. Only certain very performance-sensitive subsections of the code need to be native and even then, they make it ridiculously easy to compile to both.

If there's one thing Microsoft is actually really good at, it's convincing developers to do things a certain way.
 
2012-11-26 10:43:11 PM

m1ke: So I go to the MS Store just to look at the device in my hands and they tell me that the clicky-able keyboard is an additional feature that costs an additional 120 bucks.


Is the iPad keyboard free?
 
2012-11-26 10:47:58 PM

andyofne: m1ke: So I go to the MS Store just to look at the device in my hands and they tell me that the clicky-able keyboard is an additional feature that costs an additional 120 bucks.

Is the iPad keyboard free?


The Apple version is 69 bucks. Others are less expensive.

They sure as fark aren't 120 bucks.
 
2012-11-26 10:52:51 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: andyofne: m1ke: So I go to the MS Store just to look at the device in my hands and they tell me that the clicky-able keyboard is an additional feature that costs an additional 120 bucks.

Is the iPad keyboard free?

The Apple version is 69 bucks. Others are less expensive.

They sure as fark aren't 120 bucks.


And I see the surface keyboard is $79.95.
 
2012-11-26 11:37:03 PM

styckx: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

Windows 8 is actually really good.. Microsoft just has done an absolutely shiatty job advertising it and any questions and critiques regarding it are responded by putting their fingers in their ears and saying "I CAN"T HEAR YOU I CAN"T HEAR YOU"..

Metro has been blown so completely out of proportion it's ridiculous.


Have you ever tried to use it? I just have it for games. It's ability to make easy stuff hard and enforce the "official microsoft way to do things" for basic tasks make me laugh. I wouldn't be too surprised if the underlying OS had some improvements (this wouldn't be following the Sirian Cybernetics Policy of hiding glaring defects with superficial defects, but after 8+ tries they might have gotten something right), but there is no reason to subject yourself with Metro.

/Happy with KDE3
//Linux desktop may be dead
///Dead beats whatever metro is.
 
2012-11-26 11:37:53 PM
So Apple uses basically slave labor in China and then charges us top dollar over here for it. Yeah they are such a cool company. I use to use Apple. I once thought they were pretty cool but I see them very differently now.

Greedy monopolies use to not be considered so cool once.
 
2012-11-26 11:49:45 PM

Olympus Mons: So Apple uses basically slave labor in China and then charges us top dollar over here for it. Yeah they are such a cool company. I use to use Apple. I once thought they were pretty cool but I see them very differently now.

Greedy monopolies use to not be considered so cool once.


I hate to break this to you, but Microsoft's Surface Tablets aren't exactly made by union labor.
 
2012-11-27 12:03:01 AM

Kazan: OscarTamerz: I've never had anything but Microsoft computers running Windows and so on black Friday I bought a higher range laptop because one of my 2 which both ran 7 conked out on me and without any research I bought a Toshiba with an i7 Intel processor, 640 GB HDD and 6GB or ram. I have been wrestling with 8 ever since and I'm looking for a 7 disc so I can turn it into something I can feasibly use. I have a little message for everybody at Microsoft from Steve Ballmer on down.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 750x500]

And no, firing the head of Windows, Sinofsky, last week does nothing to ameliorate the fix I'm in now with a completely new interface after learning Windows since 3.1 and 95. Change everything back and give me a free farking copy you farking rat bastards.

Stardock Start8


And while you're there, pick up a cope of Sins of a Solar Empire...
 
2012-11-27 12:25:55 AM

Diogenes: I went to the Microsoft store that opened back in October here just to check it out. Some guy gave me a demo of Windows 8 and could not answer a single one of my questions. All he could do was demo it.

I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.


Meh.
 
2012-11-27 12:32:54 AM
If you are confused by Windows 8 after using it for more than 5 minutes, congrats, you're retarded. It's incredibly easy and once you get used to the interface it makes sense. There are some quibbles I have with it, but it's not the abortion it was made out to be.

Oh no, there's no desktop. Click the desktop tile or Windows M. Not too difficult.

//If Apple came up with the tile design it would be heralded as revolutionary.
 
2012-11-27 12:58:24 AM
I was playing with a Surface at the Microsoft Kiosk in the Galleria here in St. Louis, and I thought it was pretty neat. Unfortunately, much like the Zune (which was actually a great piece of hardware by its second generation), Microsoft doesn't have a clue how to sell this thing. The salespeople were obnoxious and grating, and the price is way too high on these devices. The cool keyboard touch pad is $130 extra.

What it boils down to is that for the price of a good laptop, you can get a tablet and keyboard that has about half the functionality. And you're stuck downloading MS approved apps because the Surface isn't able to load unapproved Windows 8 apps and games the way a Windows 8 notebook can. The app market Microsoft currently has is rivaled only by the Blackberry App World for its lack of compelling content.

Incidentally, I was playing with Windows 8 today and it's actually very good, even without a touch screen. That Microsoft can create a decent product and completely blow the marketing on it (while still spending a ton of money trying to make people care!) tells you how much trouble MS is really in.
 
2012-11-27 01:35:14 AM

Kazan: also.. Microsoft Tablet PC . let's be accurate as to who was first to market...


That's be the GRiDPad, released by Samsung and GRiD Computer Systems in 1989, the same people went off to make Palm. Used IBM's PC-DOS so had zip to do with Microsoft.

Now, do we have a Microsoft employee revising history. Gee, what a surprise. Haven't you accused Apple people of trying the very same shiat? Why yes, yes you have.

10min in the bad boy box.
 
2012-11-27 01:43:24 AM

ParanoidAgnostic: Hopefully the full-featured surfaces will do something to reverse that trend.


What trend? The same companies who make x86 powered tablets are still making x86 powered tablets. They tend to be quite cumbersome, heavy and expensive compared to their consumer focused 'slate' brethren.

People seem to think the Surface Pro is going to weigh the same as an iPad, be totally passively cooled and have a knickers wetting battery life.

Those people are in for a major disappointment and I'll laugh at them when MSFT finally release it. It's just going to be A. N. Other x86 tablet with all the design problems using that processor arch entails.
 
2012-11-27 01:52:51 AM

ParanoidAgnostic: MS has had a mobile OS since 1996. Long before Mr Turtleneck even dreamed of making a smart phone.


Yes, yes they did and one of the main reasons a LOT of people won't go near the WP7/WP8 crap is it STILL STINKS OF CE.

So now ask yourself: How 'good' was that mobile OS if people still don't want to go near it again over a decade later? CE was hilariously bad when they decided to make it a phone OS instead of just existing on PDA's; even with (then at least) top of the line kit the thing would STILL lag itself in to oblivion; when a call came it it was more likley to time out to voice mail than the ringer sound.

So that's Windows CE (i.e. Windows Phone's heritage). That's the mobile OS you are now cheering for? Okedokey, have fun as this I've got to see.
 
2012-11-27 01:56:41 AM

Vaneshi: ParanoidAgnostic: Hopefully the full-featured surfaces will do something to reverse that trend.

What trend? The same companies who make x86 powered tablets are still making x86 powered tablets. They tend to be quite cumbersome, heavy and expensive compared to their consumer focused 'slate' brethren.

People seem to think the Surface Pro is going to weigh the same as an iPad, be totally passively cooled and have a knickers wetting battery life.

Those people are in for a major disappointment and I'll laugh at them when MSFT finally release it. It's just going to be A. N. Other x86 tablet with all the design problems using that processor arch entails.


I have a window 7 tablet. I know that you sacrifice weight and size for power.A worthwhile trade to get a real computer in a take-anywhere use-anywhere form

/Unfortunately win7 is horrible to use with a touch interface
 
2012-11-27 01:59:52 AM

Vaneshi: ParanoidAgnostic: MS has had a mobile OS since 1996. Long before Mr Turtleneck even dreamed of making a smart phone.

Yes, yes they did and one of the main reasons a LOT of people won't go near the WP7/WP8 crap is it STILL STINKS OF CE.

So now ask yourself: How 'good' was that mobile OS if people still don't want to go near it again over a decade later? CE was hilariously bad when they decided to make it a phone OS instead of just existing on PDA's; even with (then at least) top of the line kit the thing would STILL lag itself in to oblivion; when a call came it it was more likley to time out to voice mail than the ringer sound.

So that's Windows CE (i.e. Windows Phone's heritage). That's the mobile OS you are now cheering for? Okedokey, have fun as this I've got to see.


I had 3 phones with earlier versions of windows mobile. Since then I've had an iPhone and currently have an android. Both have just made me miss windows mobile.
 
2012-11-27 02:09:10 AM

Vaneshi: ParanoidAgnostic: MS has had a mobile OS since 1996. Long before Mr Turtleneck even dreamed of making a smart phone.

Yes, yes they did and one of the main reasons a LOT of people won't go near the WP7/WP8 crap is it STILL STINKS OF CE.

So now ask yourself: How 'good' was that mobile OS if people still don't want to go near it again over a decade later? CE was hilariously bad when they decided to make it a phone OS instead of just existing on PDA's; even with (then at least) top of the line kit the thing would STILL lag itself in to oblivion; when a call came it it was more likley to time out to voice mail than the ringer sound.

So that's Windows CE (i.e. Windows Phone's heritage). That's the mobile OS you are now cheering for? Okedokey, have fun as this I've got to see.


Also my comment was in response to someone who believed MS was late to the smartphone market
 
2012-11-27 02:32:34 AM

RexTalionis: imgod2u: That being said, all programs developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro

Only if that program was compiled to run on ARM processors as well as x64/x86. The developer has the option to choose whether or not to compile for ARM and Windows RT platforms. Windows RT installations cannot natively run x86 or x64 applications.


Not exactly, there is no distinction between ARM/x86/x64 in Modern apps- its all about the APIs you use.

Windows RT is the Metro/Modern environment. Applications built for RT/Modern work on Windows 8, WinRT, WinPro, and even Windows Phone* (with some porting for screen size/layout, if written in C#/XAML, HTML5/XAML, or XNA), so long as you don't try to make use of the legacy MFC/Windows/whateverthefarkelse APIs in Metro, your apps WILL work across Win8/Pro/RT/Phone*

Its not the compilation that matters, its the libraries you build against.
 
2012-11-27 03:41:50 AM
PC users:

PC's are better, they have way more apps and games!

Mac users:

I have all the apps I need! besides, it's about the quality of the apps, not quantity!

iPad Users:

iPads are better, they have way more apps and games!

Android Tablet users:
I have all the apps I need! besides, it's about the quality of the apps, not quantity!

Surface: won't someone pay attention to me?
 
2012-11-27 03:48:08 AM
OriginalGamer:

PC users:

PC's are better, they have way more apps and games!
they are actual general purpose computers which can be used in an infinite number of different ways.

Mac users:

I have all the apps I need! besides, it's about the quality of the apps, not quantity!
Macs look pretty

iPad Users:

iPads are better, they have way more apps and games!
Mommy mommy! look at my high score on angry birds!
 
2012-11-27 04:15:19 AM
Personally I prefer Function, not Fashion in my computing devices.
 
2012-11-27 07:09:53 AM

Diogenes: I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.


Thanks for that, I haven't laughed like this since I was a little girl.

That said, the greatest trick Microsoft ever pulled was convincing consumers that the tablet PC didn't exist over a decade before the ipad.

...maybe.
 
2012-11-27 07:12:17 AM

dehehn: Really good for touch, not so much for desktop computing, which is why they include a classic version for not touch products.

Useit did a pretty thorough user testing analysis of the interface and breaks down most of its flaws pretty well. Pretty much all of it can be fixed in 9 or whatever comes next by sticking with 7.


Microsoft to stop hamstringing it's own operating systems, IMO.
 
2012-11-27 08:07:28 AM
I have no issues using 8 on my laptop and my desktop. As stated, if you can't figure out the basics within 5-10 minutes, you're a Moran. Also, for once doing a non-clean install didn't break y system and Sony already had drivers out for my laptop. Had some issues with the desktop, but that was due to a cheap monoprice HDMI cable that had handshake issues with my Onkyo Receiver.

/Not a fangirl, I use everything but Linux at the moment: 8 on two PCs, new Samsung S3 to replace an iJesusPhone 4 (now just A crappy iPod touch), Hackintosh Acer Aspire One, and rooted Nook Color. 8's been one of the better OSes as of late, and It's much better to use than OSX.
 
2012-11-27 08:31:00 AM

TheAgeOfEgos: I tried 8, couldn't stand it. I'm sure it's easier on a tablet but I really don't care about Windows running on a tablet. I'm guessing this is likely a sign most people don't either.

Not to mention, as someone that works in Healthcare IT, I found the idea of trying to teach 8 to staff--nauseating. 7 is solid, that's where I (we) will be staying--as I suspect 9 will be absent Metro.


My theory is that Microsoft has gotten into the same kind of release cycle as Trek movies.

I'll be sticking to the odd-numbered OSes.
 
2012-11-27 08:57:29 AM

Vaneshi: ParanoidAgnostic: MS has had a mobile OS since 1996. Long before Mr Turtleneck even dreamed of making a smart phone.

Yes, yes they did and one of the main reasons a LOT of people won't go near the WP7/WP8 crap is it STILL STINKS OF CE.

So now ask yourself: How 'good' was that mobile OS if people still don't want to go near it again over a decade later? CE was hilariously bad when they decided to make it a phone OS instead of just existing on PDA's; even with (then at least) top of the line kit the thing would STILL lag itself in to oblivion; when a call came it it was more likley to time out to voice mail than the ringer sound.

So that's Windows CE (i.e. Windows Phone's heritage). That's the mobile OS you are now cheering for? Okedokey, have fun as this I've got to see.


Windows Phone 7/8 is not Windows CE
 
2012-11-27 09:06:44 AM
Umm... i know many people with surfaces and they are happy with them... BUT they also ordered online.. why stand in line with a bunch of dorks when you can just order online and go jerkoff and relax....
 
2012-11-27 09:36:29 AM

BohemianGraham: As stated, if you can't figure out the basics within 5-10 minutes, you're a Moran.


Okay, but keep in mind that 90% of the potential market for Windows 8 devices are morans.

To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, you design UX for the users you have, not the users you wish you had.
 
2012-11-27 10:58:06 AM

poot_rootbeer: BohemianGraham: As stated, if you can't figure out the basics within 5-10 minutes, you're a Moran.

Okay, but keep in mind that 90% of the potential market for Windows 8 devices are morans.

To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, you design UX for the users you have, not the users you wish you had.


Touche. I just think people are whining about nothing, Especially regarding the whole start button thing. Guess I just use my pc differently, and thus had fewer problems adapting.
 
2012-11-27 11:36:44 AM

Vaneshi: ParanoidAgnostic: MS has had a mobile OS since 1996. Long before Mr Turtleneck even dreamed of making a smart phone.

Yes, yes they did and one of the main reasons a LOT of people won't go near the WP7/WP8 crap is it STILL STINKS OF CE.

So now ask yourself: How 'good' was that mobile OS if people still don't want to go near it again over a decade later? CE was hilariously bad when they decided to make it a phone OS instead of just existing on PDA's; even with (then at least) top of the line kit the thing would STILL lag itself in to oblivion; when a call came it it was more likley to time out to voice mail than the ringer sound.

So that's Windows CE (i.e. Windows Phone's heritage). That's the mobile OS you are now cheering for? Okedokey, have fun as this I've got to see.


Windows Phone 7 was based on CE, and it was pretty decent. CE's problems came from OEMs shoehorning it onto every kind of SoC imaginable without giving two shiats about whether or not it ran well. When WP7 was locked to Snapdragon processors, this problem went away.

Windows Phone 8 is not a CE-based operating system. It's based on NT.
 
2012-11-27 04:16:53 PM

Shazam999: jayhawk88: styckx: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

Windows 8 is actually really good.. Microsoft just has done an absolutely shiatty job advertising it and any questions and critiques regarding it are responded by putting their fingers in their ears and saying "I CAN"T HEAR YOU I CAN"T HEAR YOU"..

Metro has been blown so completely out of proportion it's ridiculous.

You can get used to Metro, sure, but the thing is, from a desktop perspective it's change for the sake of change. There's no good reason to do that to the Start Menu. On a tablet or some kind of touch screen sure, makes sense and probably is a lot more efficient. But on a desktop, it's just something you have to adapt to.

I dunno, the Start Menu is nigh useless in 7. I only ever use the "Pin to Start Menu", and the search box. Everything else is ignored. The list of programs is totally useless since it gets too long, and when was the last time you ever used the "Documents", "Pictures" or "Music" links from there?


this guy never turns off his computer
 
2012-11-27 04:56:45 PM

moothemagiccow: this guy never turns off his computer


The Surface isn't really designed to be turned off. You normally just hit the lock button to put it to sleep like you do with an iPad or a Android tablet, so having to do a few swipes to go to Settings > Power isn't really a big deal when you consider how people are actually going to be using devices. My computers get rebooted about once a month when security updates come out, otherwise they sleep or hibernate, so I don't really see the need to have the option to power down be right on the Start Screen.
 
2012-11-27 06:03:17 PM
The biggest gripe I have (which is minor) is the lack of a native clock app. I know there are free ones in the store, but it doesn't make sense it isn't there. Other than that I have no issues with 8 at all.
 
2012-11-27 06:40:03 PM

moothemagiccow: Shazam999: jayhawk88: styckx: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

Windows 8 is actually really good.. Microsoft just has done an absolutely shiatty job advertising it and any questions and critiques regarding it are responded by putting their fingers in their ears and saying "I CAN"T HEAR YOU I CAN"T HEAR YOU"..

Metro has been blown so completely out of proportion it's ridiculous.

You can get used to Metro, sure, but the thing is, from a desktop perspective it's change for the sake of change. There's no good reason to do that to the Start Menu. On a tablet or some kind of touch screen sure, makes sense and probably is a lot more efficient. But on a desktop, it's just something you have to adapt to.

I dunno, the Start Menu is nigh useless in 7. I only ever use the "Pin to Start Menu", and the search box. Everything else is ignored. The list of programs is totally useless since it gets too long, and when was the last time you ever used the "Documents", "Pictures" or "Music" links from there?

this guy never turns off his computer


Actually, I never do. Sleep or hibernation.
 
2012-11-28 03:32:58 AM

Rent Party: Diogenes: I went to the Microsoft store that opened back in October here just to check it out. Some guy gave me a demo of Windows 8 and could not answer a single one of my questions. All he could do was demo it.

I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.

They're really not. These are the guys that graduated from the Geek Squad for being SMRT smart!


Exact same batch of brainless window lickers. No idea how to fix the hardware (even crap like hinges on the stupid macbook airs), no idea how to resolve and sort of software issue, god help you if you have some sort of driver related issue because of some 400% overpriced video card when you updated the goddamn drivers and now the system is bricking.

My favorite was buying 'certified ram' for a system that was mirroring a windows box I build for the lab. The windows box cost $920. The ram for the mac version (with crappier components) was $650.

//hates working in apple labs.
 
Displayed 188 of 188 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report