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(CNN)   At the Microsoft store directly across from the Apple store at the Mall of America, Surface tablets are flying off the shelf at the amazing hourly rate of.... wait for it... ZERO, compared to eleven iPads   (tech.fortune.cnn.com) divider line 188
    More: Obvious, Microsoft Research, Mall of America, Apple iPad, Microsoft, apples, Microsoft Surface, Piper Jaffray, Munsters  
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4575 clicks; posted to Geek » on 26 Nov 2012 at 4:45 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-26 06:21:18 PM

TheAgeOfEgos: Well, I'm certainly not a fan. I'm willing to bet we get a Start8 style SP where you can use the traditional 7 launch option minus the Metro junk. Considering;

Steven Sinofsky appears to have been let go (8 was his baby and he's been around forever)
Start8 is experiencing very heavy sales


I like what's under the hood--just don't like how the desktop looks or Metro.


I haven't used 8 since RC1, it was such a bad experience I didn't try any later releases. That being said, can't you reg hack back the start menu/Desktop?
 
2012-11-26 06:23:18 PM

Cinaed: The Surface looks like an actual tool to do real 'work'.


Maybe Microsoft should consider advertising this capability in their Surface commercials, instead of showing off how Demographically Curated Young People can do dance routines with them where they swap keyboard/covers with each other.

/I say the same thing twice
//I say the same thing twice
 
2012-11-26 06:24:43 PM

Theaetetus: Kazan: Theaetetus: Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?

you do realize you can still write traditional desktop apps, and have them installed the traditional way - right?

or are you just concern trolling with your head up your ass?

The latter, albeit to make a point about the widespread ubiquity of "walled gardens" and how that complaint shows a stunning naivete.


But as the text you quoted clearly demonstrates that Windows 8 isn't a walled garden I don't think you're making that point well.

I've heard, although not bothered to confirm for myself that the tablet (non-intel) version is a walled garden (only apps from the app store allowed) in which case I'll be treating it like the iPad: a toy, fake computer that I'm not going to waste my time or money on.

I've also heard disturbing rumors that windows 9 will go completely walled-garden. I don't want to believe it and I doubt MS hates their customers that much... but if it happens I'm following Valve to Linux
 
2012-11-26 06:28:23 PM
They watched the store for two whole hours? Well Microsoft may as well close up shop and go out of business, there's no hope for them now.
 
2012-11-26 06:29:19 PM
Went to the Microsoft Store in Palo Alto a while ago. It was pretty much dead, except for a few kids playing with the XBox in the back.

The Apple Store (which is right next door, of course) was hoppin'.
 
2012-11-26 06:30:21 PM

ParanoidAgnostic: But as the text you quoted clearly demonstrates that Windows 8 isn't a walled garden I don't think you're making that point well.


See above - neither is OSX.

If we're talking about smartphone operating systems, then Windows Phone is just as much a walled garden as iOS.
 
2012-11-26 06:30:58 PM

zedster: Rockstone: zedster: Diogenes: I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.

IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Most entertaining thing to do is to type kill -9 -1 and walk away.

/ even better, sudo kill -9 -1
// sudo rm -rf?

you would need to enable the root account and know an admin users pw


The scary part? From what I recall, there is no admin password, and root is enabled.
 
2012-11-26 06:32:33 PM

Kazan: Theaetetus: Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?

you do realize you can still write traditional desktop apps, and have them installed the traditional way - right?

or are you just concern trolling with your head up your ass?


Theaetetus' usually Apple shilling aside, Surface RT only allows apps, not executables. That being said, all programs developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro; it's just a matter of whether Microsoft decides to open up installation on RT to Windows 8 programs outside of the app store. If they're smart (big if), they would.
 
2012-11-26 06:33:55 PM

EatHam: There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.


I know which one crashes more, too.
 
2012-11-26 06:35:13 PM
Eh, they are only scratching the surface in sales.
 
2012-11-26 06:37:16 PM
"Sold sold"? Is that like "rape rape"?
 
2012-11-26 06:38:50 PM

OscarTamerz: I've never had anything but Microsoft computers running Windows and so on black Friday I bought a higher range laptop because one of my 2 which both ran 7 conked out on me and without any research I bought a Toshiba with an i7 Intel processor, 640 GB HDD and 6GB or ram. I have been wrestling with 8 ever since and I'm looking for a 7 disc so I can turn it into something I can feasibly use. I have a little message for everybody at Microsoft from Steve Ballmer on down.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 750x500]

And no, firing the head of Windows, Sinofsky, last week does nothing to ameliorate the fix I'm in now with a completely new interface after learning Windows since 3.1 and 95. Change everything back and give me a free farking copy you farking rat bastards.


So, uh, can't figure out a small change in an era when you have almost unfettered access to a resource with a near unlimited amount of information on any given topic, including the Windows 8 interface?

You must be a really bright young boy.
 
2012-11-26 06:39:31 PM
Honestly... I have Windows 8 on my desktop, and I like it. I work in desktop mode most of the time, and it's just the same as it was in Windows 7.

I think a lot of people complaining about Windows 8 haven't used it much, and don't realize that the desktop is the same thing as in Windows 7, but with a whole bunch of behind-the-scenes improvements.

To each their own, but I'm glad I upgraded. Everything's faster, the apps in the Start Menu are cool, and it still feels like the Windows I'm used to.
 
2012-11-26 06:40:48 PM

imgod2u: That being said, all programs developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro


Only if that program was compiled to run on ARM processors as well as x64/x86. The developer has the option to choose whether or not to compile for ARM and Windows RT platforms. Windows RT installations cannot natively run x86 or x64 applications.
 
2012-11-26 06:41:14 PM

maxwellton: "Sold sold"? Is that like "rape rape"?


Depends on whether or not it's legitimate.
 
2012-11-26 06:42:00 PM

zedster: demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.

??? I've opened emacs on OS X many many times, maybe they changed it in more recent versions but pretty sure it's in the default install, may not be the default editor

//always leave the doctor program in emacs open at the stores


*goes to machine without XCode or X11 installed*
Hmm. So it is.

Why do you feel a need to leave ELIZA open at Apple stores?
 
2012-11-26 06:42:43 PM
Finally went hands on with Metro and...not sure all the fuss.

It is a desktop with icons. Pick your taste and you might think the icons are ugly and the color scheme retina scorching but they're still just icons. The whole "start menu" thing is overblown since I don't really open the Start Menu. I don't touch the thing all that much and most likely neither do you - I open a browser and office apps - since I have crap I need on my desktop as icons where they are accessible.

The worst thing was the drag down to close that doesn't work well on a desktop motif.
 
2012-11-26 06:42:46 PM

RexTalionis: imgod2u: That being said, all programs developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro

Only if that program was compiled to run on ARM processors as well as x64/x86. The developer has the option to choose whether or not to compile for ARM and Windows RT platforms. Windows RT installations cannot natively run x86 or x64 applications.


The only real difference (from what I have been able to gather) is whether or not the developer checks a few boxes in Visual Studio 2012.
 
2012-11-26 06:43:13 PM

RexTalionis: xynix: My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.

Again - be forewarned that the internal LCD for the Taichi doesn't have a touchscreen.


I realize that and frankly wouldn't see a use for the main screen to be touchable. I don't see myself typing and touch screening but flipping it over and then being able to use it as a pad would be useful. I'm sure some people will complain that the main screen is not touch enabled but I think the usefulness of such a trait would be minimal at best.
 
2012-11-26 06:44:03 PM

Marine1: RexTalionis: imgod2u: That being said, all programs developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro

Only if that program was compiled to run on ARM processors as well as x64/x86. The developer has the option to choose whether or not to compile for ARM and Windows RT platforms. Windows RT installations cannot natively run x86 or x64 applications.

The only real difference (from what I have been able to gather) is whether or not the developer checks a few boxes in Visual Studio 2012.


Yeah, that's the impression I got as well, but it's not exactly true that any program developed for Windows 8 will be able to run on both RT and Pro - the developer could simply choose not to check the RT checkbox...
 
2012-11-26 06:45:58 PM

xynix: RexTalionis: xynix: My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.

Again - be forewarned that the internal LCD for the Taichi doesn't have a touchscreen.

I realize that and frankly wouldn't see a use for the main screen to be touchable. I don't see myself typing and touch screening but flipping it over and then being able to use it as a pad would be useful. I'm sure some people will complain that the main screen is not touch enabled but I think the usefulness of such a trait would be minimal at best.


To be honest with you, I have a Tablet (a Transformer, right now, but it's actually tablet #3) and now I have the instinctive urge to go up to devices and touch the screen. And usually, I'll wind up looking pretty stupid.
 
2012-11-26 06:47:27 PM
I feel like I am living in bizarro world. I installed Win8 with great trepidation but loved it almost immediately. I was used to the FEW new controls there are within an hour and every once in a while I have to Google something I can't figure out. I actually don't think I've had to Google where stuff is any more than I did when switching to Vista and 7.

And once I was used to it and configured it the way I liked it, it is faster and smoother than 7. The start menu was completely useless past the few pinned items.
 
2012-11-26 06:54:26 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.

??? I've opened emacs on OS X many many times, maybe they changed it in more recent versions but pretty sure it's in the default install, may not be the default editor

//always leave the doctor program in emacs open at the stores

*goes to machine without XCode or X11 installed*
Hmm. So it is.

Why do you feel a need to leave ELIZA open at Apple stores?


I just felt they may need a shrink or someone to listen to their #firstworldproblems I'm helpful like that
 
2012-11-26 06:56:50 PM
The staff were probably confused that a greasy manchild came into their store to try showing off by doing such a trivial and completely pointless task in the first place. I imagine the thinking something like "why did he bother doing that when it serves no purpose in this context? Does he think this will make up for his mother not loving him enough or his father being disappointed in him?"
 
2012-11-26 07:01:13 PM
I JUST got a laptop with Windows 8 and my only complaint is I'm not used to it!

I don't love it or hate it, but you really have to learn how to use it.

Not a complaint, more of an admittance that I fear change.

(also, it was like 5 steps to shut it down! I literally couldn't find the "shut down" button for 10 minutes)
 
2012-11-26 07:02:52 PM
i.imgur.com

/fark them both...
 
2012-11-26 07:03:17 PM

zedster: Why do you feel a need to leave ELIZA open at Apple stores?

I just felt they may need a shrink or someone to listen to their #firstworldproblems I'm helpful like that


Can you elaborate on that?
 
2012-11-26 07:04:53 PM

demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: Why do you feel a need to leave ELIZA open at Apple stores?

I just felt they may need a shrink or someone to listen to their #firstworldproblems I'm helpful like that

Can you elaborate on that?


well played, took me a sec
 
2012-11-26 07:12:27 PM

Theaetetus: ParanoidAgnostic: But as the text you quoted clearly demonstrates that Windows 8 isn't a walled garden I don't think you're making that point well.

See above - neither is OSX.


Well that's half of the walled garden equation. The other is allowing it to run on non-Apple hardware.

If we're talking about smartphone operating systems, then Windows Phone is just as much a walled garden as iOS.

See that part of my reply that you didn't include in the quote.

Windows RT is just as customer-hating as IOs and I want nothing to do with it.

On the other hand, I can't wait to get my hands on an Windows 8 Pro tablet. Before Apple screwed up the concept tablets were real computers, just with a touch screen in place of the mouse and keyboard. Apple turned them into hand held web-browsers surrounded by minigames. Hopefully the full-featured surfaces will do something to reverse that trend.
 
2012-11-26 07:14:35 PM

buntz: (also, it was like 5 steps to shut it down! I literally couldn't find the "shut down" button for 10 minutes)


I am not an MS shill but I have always shut down my systems like so:

cmd + r

shutdown /r /t 000 for a restart

or

shutdown /s /t 000 for a full system powerdown.
 
2012-11-26 07:17:12 PM

Caelistis: buntz: (also, it was like 5 steps to shut it down! I literally couldn't find the "shut down" button for 10 minutes)

I am not an MS shill but I have always shut down my systems like so:

cmd + r

shutdown /r /t 000 for a restart

or

shutdown /s /t 000 for a full system powerdown.


I am a retard.

That is CONTROL + R

/Now feels very old
 
2012-11-26 07:55:24 PM
images.gizmag.com

This is what I'm waiting for. Hang on. It's sitting right here on my desk. I guess I'm not waiting any more.
 
2012-11-26 07:59:44 PM

RexTalionis: Hey, Kazan - since you work for Microsoft, does Windows 8 have native support for motion control devices like a Kinect for PC or Leap Motion?


honestly I have no idea.. i work on Server Clustering, and not on HCI

Theaetetus: Although, that said, many Android device manufacturers include a walled garden of pre-installed proprietary apps that you can't remove without rooting and wiping the device. So, maybe Android is an "unfenced lawn" in front of the garden.


true. and carrier/vendor installed apps on Windows Phone 7/8 must be uninstallable as any other ap is (no rooting needed, etc).
 
2012-11-26 07:59:53 PM

jtown: [images.gizmag.com image 530x298]

This is what I'm waiting for. Hang on. It's sitting right here on my desk. I guess I'm not waiting any more.


If Android weren't as weird as it is on the UI front, I'd go for it.
 
2012-11-26 08:01:53 PM

Beta Tested: I feel like I am living in bizarro world. I installed Win8 with great trepidation but loved it almost immediately. I was used to the FEW new controls there are within an hour and every once in a while I have to Google something I can't figure out. I actually don't think I've had to Google where stuff is any more than I did when switching to Vista and 7.

And once I was used to it and configured it the way I liked it, it is faster and smoother than 7. The start menu was completely useless past the few pinned items.


You're online, in a forum that pushes and promotes polarization. Oddly enough, folks are not just buying Surface tablets, but using them, too, and enjoying the experience. As well as Apple tablets, and Android tablets, and...

Apple folks see threats, not products, and are performing all sorts of media attacks, both paid and unpaid, to push back on both Microsoft and Google's product offerings. Every time someone buys a Microsoft or Google tablet, Apple isn't just losing that razor-thin hardware profit, but the luscious, fatted software profit on which their efforts are based. There are kids romping outside of Apple's playground. It's fun to watch, especially if you're like me and you see this silly, obvious wave across just about every IT-savvy online media outlet.

I'm sure danah boyd's having a laugh, too.
 
2012-11-26 08:08:29 PM
How's that dog food tasting now, Microsoft biatches?
 
2012-11-26 08:09:46 PM

gingerjet: GAT_00: I don't get the corporational allegiance of Apple people either. I use Windows 7 and have Android phone, but I wouldn't call myself loyal to Microsoft or Google. They just have the better products. If you aren't an iFanatic and you actually compare products, you realize you're paying a farkton more for a product that is questionable at best in superiority. Plus I'm not buying shiat that's locked down like iPhones are.

You biatch about 'iFanatics' with the same zeal as those iFanatics you somehow despise . I at least get people who love certain things. I don't get those that feel the need to bash other peoples toys because you think your toy is prettier.

/and the 90s called - he wants his tired anti-apple arguments back


Much more hysterical that he's in a thread about Microsoft's locked down Surface tablet, yet he conveniently ignores that little fact in his display of Apple derangement syndrome.
 
2012-11-26 08:14:29 PM

Marine1: If Android weren't as weird as it is on the UI front, I'd go for it.


??

Some of the third-party skins on Android (Motoblur, etc) have been pretty weird on the UI front. A few apps are awful (true on iOS too). But stock-Google-goodness 4.0/.1/.2 like the Nexus tablets? As the old saying goes, "the only intuitive interface is the nipple", but it doesn't seem terribly weird to me.
 
2012-11-26 08:22:39 PM
Regardless of one's opinion of the Surface, the iPad is still an overrated piece of sh*t with a kludgy UI. Sure it's popular. So is Justin Bieber.
 
2012-11-26 08:33:21 PM

L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.


No, no it isn't. Yes, Metro is crap, but 8 is very stable and nimble and performs well. The problem with Vista had nothing to do with its interface. It was buggy, unstable, and incompatible with everything.
 
2012-11-26 08:40:19 PM
I don't think I'd ever buy something like that from a physical store. Almost always can find better deals online.
 
2012-11-26 08:53:19 PM

iaazathot: L.D. Ablo: Windows 8 is Vista redux.

No, no it isn't. Yes, Metro is crap, but 8 is very stable and nimble and performs well. The problem with Vista had nothing to do with its interface. It was buggy, unstable, and incompatible with everything.


^ This.. Windows 8 is amazing outside of Metro.. Metro itself isn't all that bad either once you learn how to use it...

The startup time blew me away the most.
 
2012-11-26 08:55:42 PM
The problem with Apple products is that their single greatest innovation is restricting the software that can run on idevices.

This control is praised by icultista because it protects them from installing harmful software that Apple doesnt't control, that might use bluetooth creatively or enable inappropriate use of mp3s, etc.

/ Seems a bit Orwellian. Maybe they should dredge up the original Macintosh ad.
 
2012-11-26 09:03:41 PM

GAT_00: EatHam: There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.

I try using an iPhone, and I feel like a kid playing with a toy. Like those emergency phones you can get for kids that call Mom, Dad, and 911, but nothing else. It's one goddamn button. I have a Droid 4 and I LOVE the keyboard, plus there is something besides a home button.


That's funny. When I was a kid, I used to love pushing buttons. Now, I just want to get shiat done. I don't do a lot of typing on my phone, so the added thickness and weight of a physical keyboard are trade-offs I do not wish to make. Glad you like your phone, though. Also glad there are lots of good options out there.
 
2012-11-26 09:16:38 PM
The hyperactive wide-eyed 'Up With People!' style commercials just seem desperate. LOOK AT THIS AWESOME COOL NEW THING! Yeah, whatever.

I'd love to try out the tiles on a tablet - I always love poking around a novel new interface - but there is no way in hell the company I work for is ever going to adopt Windows 8. In this economy we just don't have the the time to waste on employees trying to learn a whole new method of getting their work done.

Time is money.
 
2012-11-26 09:21:05 PM

ParanoidAgnostic: I've also heard disturbing rumors that windows 9 will go completely walled-garden.


won't happen. tell whoever told you that to get their head out of their ass and imagine all the lawsuits microsoft wants to avoid
 
2012-11-26 09:31:07 PM

Kazan: ParanoidAgnostic: I've also heard disturbing rumors that windows 9 will go completely walled-garden.

won't happen. tell whoever told you that to get their head out of their ass and imagine all the lawsuits microsoft wants to avoid


I know, it sounds stupid. But with Windows RT MS seems determined to copy the worst 'feature' of iOS. When they get a taste of getting a cut of all software sold for their system I worry they won't want to go back to the old ways.
 
2012-11-26 09:37:18 PM

ParanoidAgnostic: But with Windows RT MS seems determined to copy the worst 'feature' of iOS


to us more technical users a walled garden is a bad thing... to a lot of the "technotards" (as my mom puts it) it protects tthem from their own stupidity.. that makes IT support happy. We're not the market for iPad/Surface RT.

Surface Pro would be more us.. it's an ultrabook in the surface chassis (higher res display, intel i5, etc)
 
2012-11-26 10:04:36 PM
Apple is the Halliburton of the 99%'rs.
 
2012-11-26 10:15:30 PM

Diogenes: I went to the Microsoft store that opened back in October here just to check it out. Some guy gave me a demo of Windows 8 and could not answer a single one of my questions. All he could do was demo it.


Conversely, At the Microsoft store in Oak Brook, Illinois, I talked to a guy about the business system integration features of the touch-sensitive table-computing device that USED to be called Surface and is now called Pixelsense. He was able to explain how this giant touch-sensitive TV screen with legs could draw data out of handheld devices, Excel spreadsheets and web sources to build pretty intuitive visualization systems. I don't have any immediate need for such a thing but I was able to see how it could be used for all sorts of data analysis. When I asked him something he didn't immediately know about, he told me that someone would get back to me about it. And they did.

As far as I can tell, Apple stores are smelly places filled with people who want to buy headphones and different cases for their istuff, and forlorn bastards who are waiting for someone to fix their broken istuff.
 
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