also.. Microsoft Tablet PC . let's be accurate as to who was first to market...

Apple did the same thing with PDAs - they had the Apple Newton, right concept.. but tech/market not ready. Palm comes along at the right time and is lucky
Microsoft did the same thing with tablets, except Apple was the benefactor of proper timing this time.

styckx: Shoppers at the Apple Store bought an average of 11 iPads per hour. Despite heavy TV, print and billboard advertising for the new Microsoft Surface tablet, not one was sold sold during the two hours Piper Jaffray spent monitoring that store. Doesn't bode well for Microsoft's answer to the iPad.

He said sold twice

He likes sold.

wildcardjack: The Surface pissed me off. It was just another tablet. Any given time I have three windows open and the Win8 interface isn't geared for that.

Productivity without a numberpad is greatly limited for real people.

i only use my numpad for gaming occasionally. i didn't know i wasn't "real people".

wildcardjack: Any given time I have three windows open and the Win8 interface isn't geared for that.

You can have 3 windows open in Win8 in Desktop mode.

RexTalionis: demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.

You can ssh into a server and run emacs on it through terminal?

Yes, you could do that, which would still be confusing.
Why would customers leave open ssh tunnels into their own/work servers on random laptops in an Apple store?

gingerjet: GAT_00: I don't get the corporational allegiance of Apple people either. I use Windows 7 and have Android phone, but I wouldn't call myself loyal to Microsoft or Google. They just have the better products. If you aren't an iFanatic and you actually compare products, you realize you're paying a farkton more for a product that is questionable at best in superiority. Plus I'm not buying shiat that's locked down like iPhones are.

You biatch about 'iFanatics' with the same zeal as those iFanatics you somehow despise . I at least get people who love certain things. I don't get those that feel the need to bash other peoples toys because you think your toy is prettier.

/and the 90s called - he wants his tired anti-apple arguments back

I just pick the best device for a certain capability. I have no loyalty to a brand as long as they continue to make products that are #1 for me in a certain criteria. For a tablet I think the iPad is the best because it's just so damn easy to set up and use and I don't think I've ever reset the thing in almost 2 years of use. My phone is a blackberry because I can write about 50 words a minute on it's keyboard without ever looking at the keyboard and I'm pretty sure it hasn't been reset in over a year. My PC is something I built myself with an SSD drive, dual Zotac GTX580 Blackops, i7960, on an ASUS WS mainboard - because I love PC Games.

My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.

demaL-demaL-yeH: RexTalionis: demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.

You can ssh into a server and run emacs on it through terminal?

Yes, you could do that, which would still be confusing.
Why would customers leave open ssh tunnels into their own/work servers on random laptops in an Apple store?

Hey, you only asked how, you said nothing about why.

xynix: My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.

Again - be forewarned that the internal LCD for the Taichi doesn't have a touchscreen.

RexTalionis: demaL-demaL-yeH: RexTalionis: demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.

You can ssh into a server and run emacs on it through terminal?

Yes, you could do that, which would still be confusing.
Why would customers leave open ssh tunnels into their own/work servers on random laptops in an Apple store?

Hey, you only asked how, you said nothing about why.

Wait a sec.
You know, it might be fun to change emacs to load LISP* by default.

*emacs LISP is a real clusterfark.

demaL-demaL-yeH: Wait a sec.
You know, it might be fun to change emacs to load LISP* by default.

*emacs LISP is a real clusterfark.

Meh, never used it. Although, to be honest, how different can it really be from regular LISP?

Cinaed: The Surface looks like an actual tool to do real 'work'.

the Surface Pro yes, the Surface RT is an ipad with a better keyboard, USB and microSD.

RexTalionis: xynix: My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.

Again - be forewarned that the internal LCD for the Taichi doesn't have a touchscreen.

I was feeling done in, couldn't win
I'd only ever moused before.
I thought there's no use getting on tactile UI
It only leads to trouble and RSI...

Now all I want to know is how to go
I've tapped and gasped and I want more
Forget your resistance, no single-touch existence
I've got fingers to stretch, I need capacitance:

Taichi taichi taichi touch me, your screen is so dirty
Poke me, pinch me and scroll me,
Tablet of the night.

I was previously thinking of buying a Windows 8 Ultrabook convertible, specifically the Lenovo Ideapad Yoga, but now I'm deciding against it.


Nothing against Windows 8 - I've tried it and I like it just fine. It's just that I don't use laptops anymore. I have a Windows 7 laptop with 4 GBs of RAM and more than enough power for anything I need to do and I haven't even flipped it on in weeks. Tablet devices have completely taken over the niche that I used to use laptops for.

Theaetetus: RexTalionis: xynix: My next work laptop will be the Asus Taichi because it will double as an email tool and tablet all in one without carrying around any accessories. It will do PowerPoint, Word, and Outlook easily and conveniently. If Apple had made a Taichi like device I would buy it from them.

Again - be forewarned that the internal LCD for the Taichi doesn't have a touchscreen.

I was feeling done in, couldn't win
I'd only ever moused before.
I thought there's no use getting on tactile UI
It only leads to trouble and RSI...

Now all I want to know is how to go
I've tapped and gasped and I want more
Forget your resistance, no single-touch existence
I've got fingers to stretch, I need capacitance:

Taichi taichi taichi touch me, your screen is so dirty
Poke me, pinch me and scroll me,
Tablet of the night.

Janet, you slut.

ParanoidAgnostic: Theaetetus: zedster: EatHam: There is no superior product, just what works best for what it is you want to do.  I'd never argue that an iPhone is better than an Android phone, but I know which one my father can work.

No, but there is a superior philosophy, if walled gardens win the consumers lose

Agreed. Can you send me a copy of the source code for Windows 8, incidentally? Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?


There's a difference between open source and an open platform and you know it.

The comment I was remarking on was between Android and iOS, Android is a modified Apache license that is barley copyleft but at least Google lets you jailbreak without having to root.

That being said Paranoid is right as well

demaL-demaL-yeH: zedster: IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Of course they were. How did you download and install that without admin privileges and the password?

/You do know that pico is the built-in editor, right?
//Go vim yourself, poser.

??? I've opened emacs on OS X many many times, maybe they changed it in more recent versions but pretty sure it's in the default install, may not be the default editor

//always leave the doctor program in emacs open at the stores

OscarTamerz: I've never had anything but Microsoft computers running Windows and so on black Friday I bought a higher range laptop because one of my 2 which both ran 7 conked out on me and without any research I bought a Toshiba with an i7 Intel processor, 640 GB HDD and 6GB or ram. I have been wrestling with 8 ever since and I'm looking for a 7 disc so I can turn it into something I can feasibly use. I have a little message for everybody at Microsoft from Steve Ballmer on down.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 750x500]

And no, firing the head of Windows, Sinofsky, last week does nothing to ameliorate the fix I'm in now with a completely new interface after learning Windows since 3.1 and 95. Change everything back and give me a free farking copy you farking rat bastards.

Question: Aren't you a little teensy weensy bit at fault for buying something without trying it out first?

Rockstone: zedster: Diogenes: I've never been to an Apple store as I do not have any Apple products other than my Ipod. But I get the impression the quality of Apple geeks working there is much higher than at MS.

IDK, I always open terminal and then emacs on the laptops at the store. It confuses them

Most entertaining thing to do is to type kill -9 -1 and walk away.

/ even better, sudo kill -9 -1
// sudo rm -rf?

you would need to enable the root account and know an admin users pw

Theaetetus: Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?

you do realize you can still write traditional desktop apps, and have them installed the traditional way - right?

or are you just concern trolling with your head up your ass?

OscarTamerz: I've never had anything but Microsoft computers running Windows and so on black Friday I bought a higher range laptop because one of my 2 which both ran 7 conked out on me and without any research I bought a Toshiba with an i7 Intel processor, 640 GB HDD and 6GB or ram. I have been wrestling with 8 ever since and I'm looking for a 7 disc so I can turn it into something I can feasibly use. I have a little message for everybody at Microsoft from Steve Ballmer on down.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 750x500]

And no, firing the head of Windows, Sinofsky, last week does nothing to ameliorate the fix I'm in now with a completely new interface after learning Windows since 3.1 and 95. Change everything back and give me a free farking copy you farking rat bastards.

Stardock Start8

Kazan: Theaetetus: Also, I'd like to upload an App to the Windows Store, but I don't want to register or pay money... you can help with that, right?

you do realize you can still write traditional desktop apps, and have them installed the traditional way - right?

or are you just concern trolling with your head up your ass?

The latter, albeit to make a point about the widespread ubiquity of "walled gardens" and how that complaint shows a stunning naivete.

Theaetetus: The latter, albeit to make a point about the widespread ubiquity of "walled gardens" and how that complaint shows a stunning naivete.

there are different levels of walled gardens though. Apple's is "Fort Knox" (walled software, hardware, etc), whereas Windows Store is "US/Canada Border" (Metro App QA gate), Android is "spread legged hooker" (With just as many diseases)

SweetSaws: SLAT? I don't think so. I'll have to check that out thanks.

no SLAT on a VM host is a huge perf negative. strictly speaking we don't support hardware without SLAT anymore for HyperV (Windows Client HyperV in fact refuses to enable, Server HyperV will still run - but we don't officially support it).

TheAgeOfEgos: Not to mention, as someone that works in Healthcare IT, I found the idea of trying to teach 8 to staff--nauseating. 7 is solid, that's where I (we) will be staying--as I suspect 9 will be absent Metro.

Good Idea: Going to Home Depot to get tiles
Bad Idea: Going to the Microsoft store to get tiles



/metro is horrible

zedster: TheAgeOfEgos: Not to mention, as someone that works in Healthcare IT, I found the idea of trying to teach 8 to staff--nauseating. 7 is solid, that's where I (we) will be staying--as I suspect 9 will be absent Metro.

Good Idea: Going to Home Depot to get tiles
Bad Idea: Going to the Microsoft store to get tiles

[cdn.mactrast.com image 580x392]

/metro is horrible

image inaccurate. completely ignoring desktop apps (aka all apps written prior to win 8) as usual.

color scheme is configurable.

zedster: /metro is horrible

I don't think Metro is bad, it's just that the problem is that the hardware isn't consistent enough to make Metro a good experience for everybody. Desktop users and non-touchscreen laptop users with have a significantly different experience with Windows 8 than a touchscreen user with an All-in-one or a tablet.

It's kind of like the Vista-ready hardware problem all over again.

Kazan: image inaccurate. completely ignoring desktop apps (aka all apps written prior to win 8) as usual.

color scheme is configurable.

Hey, Kazan - since you work for Microsoft, does Windows 8 have native support for motion control devices like a Kinect for PC or Leap Motion?

Kazan: Theaetetus: The latter, albeit to make a point about the widespread ubiquity of "walled gardens" and how that complaint shows a stunning naivete.

there are different levels of walled gardens though. Apple's is "Fort Knox" (walled software, hardware, etc) whereas Windows Store is "US/Canada Border" (Metro App QA gate)

you do realize you can still write traditional desktop apps, and have them installed the traditional way - right?

Yes, I know you're referring to iOS rather than OSX, but you had the same response when I was referring to Windows Phone rather than Windows desktop OS. Both are locked down on mobile devices and wide open on desktops or laptops.

Android is "spread legged hooker" (With just as many diseases)

Although, that said, many Android device manufacturers include a walled garden of pre-installed proprietary apps that you can't remove without rooting and wiping the device. So, maybe Android is an "unfenced lawn" in front of the garden.