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(Reuters)   Chinese "Aircraft Carrier" that at present carries no aircraft, and isn't seaworthy, sucessfully upgraded to "floating runway"   (reuters.com) divider line 200
    More: Interesting, floating runway, Liaoning Province, Iranian Navy, military sciences, People's Liberation Army, aircraft, Hu Jintao  
•       •       •

14340 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Nov 2012 at 12:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-26 01:34:04 PM

WGJ: If the Chinese really wanted to cripple the US, all it would have to do is seize all of the factories that are owned by US companies. The job creators have completely destroyed this country's ability to maintain itself in this scenario and we would be crippled in less than a month.


At which point their current economy of "build ghost towns to keep construction strong" might not quite hold up?
 
2012-11-26 01:36:51 PM
I've seen video of this boat at sea. Not sure what Subby means by "isn't seaworthy".
 
2012-11-26 01:37:58 PM

WGJ: If the Chinese really wanted to cripple the US, all it would have to do is seize all of the factories that are owned by US companies. The job creators have completely destroyed this country's ability to maintain itself in this scenario and we would be crippled in less than a month.


They'd be crippling themselves as well.
 
2012-11-26 01:40:59 PM

Mithiwithi: dittybopper: Mithiwithi: dittybopper: FTFA:

"We should make active planning for the use of military forces in peacetime, expand and intensify military preparedness, and enhance the capability to accomplish a wide range of military tasks, the most important of which is to win local war in an information age," Hu said.

Hu said that?

Yes.

So Yes said it?

No, that's an English rock band. The outgoing president of China is Hu.


First base
 
2012-11-26 01:41:56 PM

fluffy2097: dittybopper:

Can you provide any examples of submarines attacking a carrier in the past 50 years?


Given that we are really talking about a cruiser with a ski-jump flight deck... you might want to look up the Falklands war.

And that was using WWII era torpedos.
 
2012-11-26 01:43:00 PM

WGJ: If the Chinese really wanted to cripple the US, all it would have to do is seize all of the factories that are owned by US companies. The job creators have completely destroyed this country's ability to maintain itself in this scenario and we would be crippled in less than a month.


Yeah, but the US could just start tactically nuking parts of china until they gave the factories back!

/My scenario makes just as much sense as yours.
//IE: none.
 
2012-11-26 01:43:12 PM
Complete rubbish. The type of ship is a clue. It carries aircraft. That's it. That's all it does. They have no suitable aircraft to carry.
 
2012-11-26 01:44:30 PM
This just in from the China Daily

In the eyes of his teachers and classmates at college, he studied hard and was always happy to lend a helping hand; his colleagues respected him because he had devoted all his life to his work; and for Chinese military fans, he was the man who enabled the country's first carrier-based fighter jet to fly high.
However, the respected Luo Yang, a senior aircraft designer, can no longer hear these words of praise.
Luo, general manager of the Shenyang Aircraft Corp, which develops and manufactures the J-15 fighter jet, died of a heart attack on Sunday morning in Dalian, Liaoning province, soon after the carrier-based aircraft successfully completed landing and take-off tests on the country's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning. He was 51.
 
2012-11-26 01:44:39 PM

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: NOBODY has the ability to make an offensive move against the USA. Nobody.


Somewhere there is a color coded version showing Russia and Possibly China as non-allied US carriers.
More lopsided than it first appears.
 
2012-11-26 01:46:46 PM

John the Magnificent:

Don't help him.

/no mention of carriers actually being attacked and sunk according to a skim of wikipedia.
//a cruiser was lost though, and a destroyer.
///Hardly the same as a modern US carrier battlegroup as well.

 
2012-11-26 01:48:01 PM

Magorn: GAT_00: Well done China. You've reached the 1930s level of naval power. 

Achievement Unlocked Unrocked - ReadyLeady to re-fight WWII

 
2012-11-26 01:49:18 PM

lordargent: Magorn: Honestly, an air-craft carrier is SO 20th century-at this point why not build something that can launch thousands of cruise missile and drones?

Sounds like you want a missile corvette.

But I'm all about the iron canon frigate.


I think I might have to play that game later. If you invest in salvage corvettes early in the single player campaign, you can end up with a mass of more than a hundred ion cannon frigates in a sphere of death formation. Quite entertaining.
 
2012-11-26 01:50:26 PM

ronaprhys: Frogfoot: Given the rather flippant responses to this thread I even hesitate to mention this. But I will as, apparently, none of the posters have ever designed, built, operated, or managed any of the following. An aircraft carrier. A jet fighter. A navy. An air force.

The Peoples Liberation Army as they like to be called is taking steps to learn how to operate aircraft from the deck of ship moving in the ocean. You see unlike the previous posters here they realize that all of the things it takes to operate an aircraft carrier are not easy. To this end they purchased an incomplete carrier from the Ukraine. They are using it to train a core of pilots and crew for their naval ambitions.

They are currently building from the dockyard up their first truly operational aircraft carrier. Likely to be in service around 2020.

It amazes me how intelligent people continue to look down their noses at the Chinese and their military. Some folks should wake up. China is not a paper tiger. In a decade or two China could cause much trouble in the pacific if they made the calculation that it was worth the cost to do so. By trouble I mean the projection of hundreds of thousands of men within their chosen sphere of influence for as long as they could maintain the supply lines.

I think most folks realize that the Chinese could become a force to be reckoned with. However, at this point they really aren't. They've got a huge military, but can't get it to the USA. Sure, they could cause all sorts of problems for Japan, Russia, or folks in their immediate vicinity, but even that's a losing proposition.


I can't believe that people still don't take them seriously. Besides, they've pulled off the "we're just taking this off your hands" thing with a carrier before, in 1985 (HMAS Melbourne). This isn't a new thing.

However, India's navy has been doing the naval aviation thing for longer, and they even have battle experience. In a Chinese/Indian carrier vs. carrier fight, I'd have a hard time betting against India even with the obvious disparity in carrier capabilities.
 
2012-11-26 01:52:03 PM

styckx: Just read up on the carrier itself. Pretty amazing actually and a hell of a deal for China.. That thing was built in Russia and never completed (like most things in Russia).. Then it just sat around with no engines or electronics for ever.. China basically got a empty shell for a bargain price.


So it's a "Romney" then?
 
WGJ
2012-11-26 01:52:31 PM

EdNortonsTwin: WGJ: If the Chinese really wanted to cripple the US, all it would have to do is seize all of the factories that are owned by US companies. The job creators have completely destroyed this country's ability to maintain itself in this scenario and we would be crippled in less than a month.

They'd be crippling themselves as well.


The Chinese government would have no problem with making their citizens suffer, they would just go back to where they were a couple of decades ago. Our country on the other hand would implode from the stock market overreacting and we basically would destroy ourselves from within.
 
2012-11-26 01:52:35 PM

Frogfoot: It amazes me how intelligent people continue to look down their noses at the Chinese and their military. Some folks should wake up. China is not a paper tiger. In a decade or two China could cause much trouble in the pacific if they made the calculation that it was worth the cost to do so. By trouble I mean the projection of hundreds of thousands of men within their chosen sphere of influence for as long as they could maintain the supply lines.


They could call it the Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

Just think of the money the Walton heirs can make and ship to the Caymans if the Chicom enslaves SE Asia for them.
 
2012-11-26 01:54:03 PM
We should sell them the Enterprise without the photon torpedos.
 
2012-11-26 01:59:59 PM

fluffy2097: dittybopper:

Can you provide any examples of submarines attacking a carrier in the past 50 years?


Do military exercises count?

img474.imageshack.us

sitelife.aviationweek.com

willdishong.com

3.bp.blogspot.com

4.bp.blogspot.com

www.dutchsubmarines.com
 
2012-11-26 02:03:40 PM
dittybopper:

I can post random photos too!

desertwar.net

static.ddmcdn.com

www.nytimes.com
 
2012-11-26 02:03:56 PM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: dittybopper: BronyMedic: Well, isn't that quaint.

[www.military-today.com image 600x399]


Heh. Aircraft carriers make nice, juicy sub targets:

[www.history.navy.mil image 700x500]
[warandgame.files.wordpress.com image 800x545]
[www.fas.org image 700x480]
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 400x250]

Naval aviators might disagree...

/How will the chinese ever get the ship to float if it's full of lead?


And the SH-60 shot earlier. Ain't nothing like hunting subs from aircraft.
 
2012-11-26 02:05:18 PM

dittybopper: fluffy2097: dittybopper:

Can you provide any examples of submarines attacking a carrier in the past 50 years?

Do military exercises count?

[img474.imageshack.us image 492x328]

[sitelife.aviationweek.com image 440x293]

[willdishong.com image 554x419]

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x190]

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 400x322]

[www.dutchsubmarines.com image 300x235]


You are making me want to install Silent Hunter 4.
 
2012-11-26 02:05:19 PM

fluffy2097: dittybopper:

I can post random photos too!


Those weren't random: All were aircraft carriers sunk by submarines. If there was a shot of the actual carrier sinking, I used that, but generally there isn't.
 
2012-11-26 02:05:22 PM
Landing an aircraft on a carrier is a long way from that carrier being a deployable weapons platform.
 
2012-11-26 02:06:10 PM

mjohnson71: baronvonzipper: U.S. Pacific carrier supremacy was lost when the Chinese navy surfaced an undetected sub in the middle of the Kitty Hawk battle group, within torpedo range.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 500x271]


Twice in the 1990s Russian Akula and Typhoon class submarines were spotted less then a mile from an American carrier group, neither were detected until they surfaced to "show off" and be escorted away.
 
2012-11-26 02:06:24 PM
I think I might have to play that game later. If you invest in salvage corvettes early in the single player campaign, you can end up with a mass of more than a hundred ion cannon frigates in a sphere of death formation. Quite entertaining.

lolwut?
 
2012-11-26 02:07:46 PM

Lego_Addict: dittybopper: fluffy2097: dittybopper:

Can you provide any examples of submarines attacking a carrier in the past 50 years?

Do military exercises count?

[img474.imageshack.us image 492x328]

[sitelife.aviationweek.com image 440x293]

[willdishong.com image 554x419]

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x190]

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 400x322]

[www.dutchsubmarines.com image 300x235]

You are making me want to install Silent Hunter 4.


I've heard it isn't that good. I'm still playing Silent Hunter 3 with the GWX expansion pack, and of course full manual everything, including manual targeting:

img185.imageshack.us

img179.imageshack.us
 
2012-11-26 02:09:02 PM

Two16: styckx: Just read up on the carrier itself. Pretty amazing actually and a hell of a deal for China.. That thing was built in Russia and never completed (like most things in Russia).. Then it just sat around with no engines or electronics for ever.. China basically got a empty shell for a bargain price.

So it's a "Romney" then?


The election is over. You can crawl back under your bridge.
 
2012-11-26 02:09:11 PM

letrole: BronyMedic: For Two: It'd be a major international incident since carriers are considered de-facto US Soil, and any attack on them is considered grounds for the use of nuclear weapons in retaliation.

No.


I know you're just herping and derping here, but for those FARKers not familiar with your talents, I'll elaborate.

The Bush administration made the SIOP (Single Integrated Operations Plan, the nuclear playbook) activatable in the event the United States, or it's troops, were attacked by a WMD by a foreign nation or extragovernmental group supported by a foreign nation. What that means is if North Korea were to use, as an example, Mustard Gas against the DMZ, the United States could retaliate by shoving a Trident up Pyongyang's ass.

Attacks on United States Carriers are considered WMD attacks due to the potential for massive loss of life, and the Military and monitary value of a US carrier. In addition, carriers are still considered nuclear force projection assets.

When Obama came into office in 08, he changed our nation from SIOP to OPLAN 8010. That part didn't change.
 
2012-11-26 02:10:13 PM

Summer Glau's Love Slave: [www.sydesjokes.com image 600x395]
What a Chinese Aircraft Carrier may look like.

/Or, China's newest nuclear submarine struts its stuff.


RIP The Mighty O
 
2012-11-26 02:11:44 PM
I expected it to look more like this.

www.filmbuffonline.com
 
2012-11-26 02:14:28 PM
this is GRREAAT NEWS for the American.........

1.bp.blogspot.com 


OTOH it is also quite upsetting that so many Americans (as evident here) view China as a mortal enemy when the opposite is not true.

The average Chinese definitely do not desire or dream of an sort of sinking or destruction everytime a new American Navy ship gets commissioned, a new plane flies etc.
 
2012-11-26 02:16:07 PM

Amphipath: I expected it to look more like this.

[www.filmbuffonline.com image 250x213]


This is China.
go.hrw.com
www.onlinenewspapers.com

This is Japan.
www.lonelyplanet.com
www.mapsofworld.com

The Japanese Do not like to be confused with the Chinese, and any Chinese person with any knowledge of history would smack you senseless for being a Racist White American for calling them Japanese.
 
2012-11-26 02:17:12 PM

SuperNinjaToad: this is GRREAAT NEWS for the American.........

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x196] 


OTOH it is also quite upsetting that so many Americans (as evident here) view China as a mortal enemy when the opposite is not true.

The average Chinese definitely do not desire or dream of an sort of sinking or destruction everytime a new American Navy ship gets commissioned, a new plane flies etc.


Neither did the average German or Japanese citizen back in the 1920's and 1930's. That doesn't mean their armament programs weren't a potential future threat.
 
2012-11-26 02:18:04 PM

styckx: The J-15 looks amazingly similar to an F-15 Eagle.


and a pinto which has 4 wheels and a hood looks exactly like the Ferrari Enzo. Methinks you fail.. the J-15 is actually a modified copy of Russian SU-27.
 
2012-11-26 02:23:05 PM
BronyMedic: The Bush administration made the SIOP (Single Integrated Operations Plan, the nuclear playbook) activatable in the event the United States, or it's troops, were attacked by a WMD by a foreign nation

So is a strafing run WMD? Is a suicide speedboat WMD?
 
2012-11-26 02:24:22 PM

dittybopper: BronyMedic: Well, isn't that quaint.

[www.military-today.com image 600x399]


Heh. Aircraft carriers make nice, juicy sub targets:

[upload.wikimedia.org image 773x574]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 307x240]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 800x204]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 800x591]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 740x554]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x201]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 604x480]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x187]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x193]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x154]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x80]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x102]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x88]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x180]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x107]

[upload.wikimedia.org image 300x180]

All sunk by submarines.

/Probably an incomplete list.


Two small problems. First, the Marus weren't even legitimate escort carriers, they were glorified Army ferries that couldn't top 20 knots. Not exactly the type of vessel a navy uses for force projection.

And secondly, the Yorktown is highly misleading, because the I-168 was effectively a kill-stealing biatch. CV-5 was put out of commission by Hiryu's bombers - I-168 hit a ship that was under tow with only a damage assessment party aboard.
 
2012-11-26 02:25:13 PM
Trucker:
Landing an aircraft on a carrier is a long way from that carrier being a deployable weapons platform.

Just a couple of months ago, it was "sailing an aircraft carrier out of a harbor is a long way from being able to land planes on it."

Just over a year ago, it was "buying an uncompleted aircraft carrier is a long way from being able to sail it out of a harbor."
 
2012-11-26 02:26:59 PM

darch: I think I might have to play that game later. If you invest in salvage corvettes early in the single player campaign, you can end up with a mass of more than a hundred ion cannon frigates in a sphere of death formation. Quite entertaining.

lolwut?


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-26 02:26:59 PM

SuperNinjaToad: OTOH it is also quite upsetting that so many Americans (as evident here) view China as a mortal enemy when the opposite is not true.

The average Chinese definitely do not desire or dream of an sort of sinking or destruction everytime a new American Navy ship gets commissioned, a new plane flies etc.


Neither does the average American. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just as brainwashed as the ones you claim think the average Chinese citizen does.

Americans don't want war. We're a war weary culture. 12 years of brushfire war and regieme change will do that to you.

But it's also a good idea, as the big kid on the block, to be able to go up against the other big kid on the block militarily. Especially as resources become more and more scarce, and that big kid doesn't want to share his toys.
 
2012-11-26 02:28:01 PM

dittybopper: Lego_Addict: dittybopper: fluffy2097: dittybopper:

Can you provide any examples of submarines attacking a carrier in the past 50 years?

Do military exercises count?

[img474.imageshack.us image 492x328]

[sitelife.aviationweek.com image 440x293]

[willdishong.com image 554x419]

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 400x190]

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 400x322]

[www.dutchsubmarines.com image 300x235]

You are making me want to install Silent Hunter 4.

I've heard it isn't that good. I'm still playing Silent Hunter 3 with the GWX expansion pack, and of course full manual everything, including manual targeting:

[img185.imageshack.us image 800x600]

[img179.imageshack.us image 800x600]


I've only ever played 4. I haven't played it in over 2 years now either. I was hooked on it for a while though. Stalking a convoy, getting some tonnage, and then running from the destroyers was a lot of fun.

I tried but never got into the manual targeting. Although, I kept the oxygen, fuel, etc. settings legit
 
2012-11-26 02:28:10 PM

some_beer_drinker: Decillion: Empty cities and empty carriers. China really is a paper tiger.

It wouldn't surprise me if they are currently mining an area that has nothing worth mining just to keep a town/city employed.

this. really really this.


Carriers are 'empty' during quals and airwings are formed afterward.

I can't believe subby/farkers are so dumb.

Even an establish Navy like the USN do not put aircraft on them the first time a carrier rolls off into water.

I would say China is probably at least 2 years before this ship is operational and have an active airwing on board. This is just the initial flight test.
Nothing to see move along....
 
2012-11-26 02:29:30 PM
I realize that, for some reason (which has never been explained to me), this is IMPOSSIBLE, but...

I think it would be truly hilarious if the Chinese seized all of the US-owned factories in their country.

Wouldn't it be fun to see all of the corporations who chose to locate there suddenly go belly up?

I'd be willing to suffer through the crippling recession such an event would lead to, if there was only a chance that our leaders might learn some kind of lesson from it.
 
2012-11-26 02:33:18 PM
Why does china lack original thinking? They just rip off designs.
 
2012-11-26 02:33:51 PM

Mithiwithi: dittybopper: Mithiwithi: dittybopper: FTFA:

"We should make active planning for the use of military forces in peacetime, expand and intensify military preparedness, and enhance the capability to accomplish a wide range of military tasks, the most important of which is to win local war in an information age," Hu said.

Hu said that?

Yes.

So Yes said it?

No, that's an English rock band. The outgoing president of China is Hu.


that's what i was asking.
 
2012-11-26 02:35:15 PM

dittybopper: SuperNinjaToad: this is GRREAAT NEWS for the American.........

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x196] 


OTOH it is also quite upsetting that so many Americans (as evident here) view China as a mortal enemy when the opposite is not true.

The average Chinese definitely do not desire or dream of an sort of sinking or destruction everytime a new American Navy ship gets commissioned, a new plane flies etc.

Neither did the average German or Japanese citizen back in the 1920's and 1930's. That doesn't mean their armament programs weren't a potential future threat.


so your argument is let's hate them first in case they hate us later? huh?

/confuse!
 
2012-11-26 02:38:28 PM

doczoidberg: I realize that, for some reason (which has never been explained to me), this is IMPOSSIBLE, but...

I think it would be truly hilarious if the Chinese seized all of the US-owned factories in their country.

Wouldn't it be fun to see all of the corporations who chose to locate there suddenly go belly up?

I'd be willing to suffer through the crippling recession such an event would lead to, if there was only a chance that our leaders might learn some kind of lesson from it.


No, they could do it, but it would hurt them too much to do so.

When goods don't cross borders, armies do.
 
2012-11-26 02:38:36 PM

BronyMedic: SuperNinjaToad: OTOH it is also quite upsetting that so many Americans (as evident here) view China as a mortal enemy when the opposite is not true.

The average Chinese definitely do not desire or dream of an sort of sinking or destruction everytime a new American Navy ship gets commissioned, a new plane flies etc.

Neither does the average American. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just as brainwashed as the ones you claim think the average Chinese citizen does.


then I guess you must've missed 90% of the postings here which are definitely very belligerent and anti-China.
 
2012-11-26 02:55:21 PM

doczoidberg: I realize that, for some reason (which has never been explained to me), this is IMPOSSIBLE, but...

I think it would be truly hilarious if the Chinese seized all of the US-owned factories in their country.

Wouldn't it be fun to see all of the corporations who chose to locate there suddenly go belly up?

I'd be willing to suffer through the crippling recession such an event would lead to, if there was only a chance that our leaders might learn some kind of lesson from it.


Except for the fact that it would actually help America, and severely hurt the Chinese. And that it would not only cripple the chinese economy, which is HEAVILY DEPENDANT on Exports to the West, but severely impact their ability to conduct international business.

The recession wouldn't even be that severe, to be quite honest. America would do what it always does, crank back up factories and manufacturing centers, and replace the jobs here, or go to other countries for outsourcing, like India.

SuperNinjaToad: then I guess you must've missed 90% of the postings here which are definitely very belligerent and anti-China.


Historically, China has been very expansionary since the People's Republic banished the Nationalists to Taiwan. Just because I don't want another war doesn't mean I'm nieve about Chinese ambition.
 
2012-11-26 02:57:45 PM

Magorn: Honestly, an air-craft carrier is SO 20th century-at this point why not build something that can launch thousands of cruise missile and drones? Same bang- a whole lot less buck


Because the aircraft carrier isn't designed to fight a war.

It's designed to look big when you project force.
 
2012-11-26 02:59:00 PM

GAT_00: Well done China. You've reached the 1930s level of naval power.


Chinese jet taking off from their carrier:
s1.reutersmedia.net

Biplane taking from carrier in the 1930s:

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

If you can't tell the difference then you are truly a master of the herpaderp.
 
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