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(The New York Times)   Nobel Prize troll is still a troll   (nytimes.com) divider line 35
    More: Dumbass, lows, UnitedHealth Group, trolls, Greek government, debt limit  
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4713 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Nov 2012 at 8:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-11-26 08:53:37 AM
4 votes:

aaronx: As far as I have seen, Krugman's ideological opponents have, basically, used three lines of counter-attack:

- Point to various discredited-by-history Austrian-school theories
- Point to Greece, a country that doesn't even have its own currency, let alone any chance of borrowing in Drachmas.
- Point out that Krugman has a beard and the habit of saying mean things about their dumb ideas.

And yet they get treated as though their arguments are credible by most of the major news outlets.

Makes me kinda' angry, actually.



There's remarkable agreement among economists on most policy questions.
2012-11-26 08:29:15 AM
4 votes:
Only thing trolling here is the headline.  Trolling for what, I'm not sure.
2012-11-26 09:55:53 AM
3 votes:

cman: FTA

still depressed economy

Ok, can anyone make up their damned mind? Obama admin thinks our economy is steady, GOP thinks that we have sunk below Great Depression era, and now this tool states that the economy is shiat. Who is farking right?


Being "in a depression" and being "depressed" are different meanings; the former means negative growth over many successive quarters (no idea how many, two make for a recession) or large amounts of negative growth in a short time; a 'depressed' economy is just one that it riding below its long-term growth trend. AFAIK the US economy is growing at pre-crisis years but hasn't yet made up that gap caused by the recession.

stateofworkingamerica.org
2012-11-26 09:22:55 AM
3 votes:

BeesNuts: You don't appear to have an opinion except to sarcastically agree with Krugman. But ... stripping away the sarcasm... I can't help but think you SHOULD agree with Krugman. And then I'm too deep down the rabbit hole to figure out if you are actually being sarcastic of if I need more coffee.


I think he believes that Keynesian economics calls for debt spending once you have the economy going, actually you are suppose to save during good times for bad times. You know like how Clinton had a surplus that Bush squandered with tax cuts and then lacked emergency funds when we needed them. (yes I realize even with a surplus we had debt)
2012-11-26 09:20:10 AM
3 votes:

PanicMan: cman: Now you know how I feel when people on my side have their political speech dismissed as a "racist attack" just because they *GASP* make an advertisement critical of the President

Bil Mahr doesn't represent me, and his opinions are his own.

Frankly, he's kind of an idiot. That seems to happen with anyone with airtime to fill.


Conservatives don't seem to understand that outside of the far left there is not this cult of personality around our mouthpieces/elected officials. We are able to separate an idea from a person, thus why we don't have a liberal equivalent of Saint Regan. We avoid demigod-ing.
2012-11-26 08:58:13 AM
3 votes:

Kibbler: Can't we build an enormous bronze god and sacrifice the children of takers in it to appease the wrathful Saint Reagan?

Nobody ever listens to me.


We've already got the bronze idol.

upload.wikimedia.org
2012-11-26 08:50:06 AM
3 votes:
As far as I have seen, Krugman's ideological opponents have, basically, used three lines of counter-attack:

- Point to various discredited-by-history Austrian-school theories
- Point to Greece, a country that doesn't even have its own currency, let alone any chance of borrowing in Drachmas.
- Point out that Krugman has a beard and the habit of saying mean things about their dumb ideas.

And yet they get treated as though their arguments are credible by most of the major news outlets.

Makes me kinda' angry, actually.
2012-11-26 08:31:14 AM
3 votes:
Yeah, what does HE know about economics. Soon there will be an idiot with a link to someone's blog totally showing how he's wrong.
2012-11-26 12:55:36 PM
2 votes:
After RTFA, I can only conclude that the person trolling here is in fact subby.
2012-11-26 10:57:03 AM
2 votes:

cman: FTA

still depressed economy

Ok, can anyone make up their damned mind? Obama admin thinks our economy is steady, GOP thinks that we have sunk below Great Depression era, and now this tool states that the economy is shiat. Who is farking right?


"Steady" and "still depressed" arrent contradictory. You can be in bad shape but not getting worse.
2012-11-26 10:16:47 AM
2 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: For years, deficit scolds have held Washington in thrall with warnings of an imminent debt crisis, even though investors, who continue to buy U.S. bonds, clearly believe that such a crisis won't happen; economic analysis says that such a crisis can't happen; and the historical record shows no examples bearing any resemblance to our current situation in which such a crisis actually did happen.

If you ask me, it's time for Washington to stop worrying about this phantom menace - and to stop listening to the people who have been peddling this scare story in an attempt to get their way.

Famous last words.


Actually, he's right even from a historical perspective. At some point when interest rates and inflation rates DO show signs of climbing beyond sustainable rate, the US Fed has two massive weapons in its possession that will work very well: 1) raising interest rates (currently ~0) and reducing the monetary base (which was tripled in the recession and did fark-all to inflation). Ask Paul Volcker, Reagan's Fed chief. Today deflation is the threat (negative real interest rates on long-terms!), something the European periphery is already seeing.
2012-11-26 09:40:32 AM
2 votes:
2012-11-26 09:08:37 AM
2 votes:

cman: aaronx: As far as I have seen, Krugman's ideological opponents have, basically, used three lines of counter-attack:

- Point to various discredited-by-history Austrian-school theories
- Point to Greece, a country that doesn't even have its own currency, let alone any chance of borrowing in Drachmas.
- Point out that Krugman has a beard and the habit of saying mean things about their dumb ideas.

And yet they get treated as though their arguments are credible by most of the major news outlets.

Makes me kinda' angry, actually.

Now you know how I feel when people on my side have their political speech dismissed as a "racist attack" just because they *GASP* make an advertisement critical of the President


That sounded a lot like Bill Maher jumping at shadows and an ENTIRE PANEL FULL OF LIBERALS telling him to stop it. If that makes you angry the same way I get frustrated at the systematic refusal to accept expert analysis on our economy in favor of a partisan pledge to obey the pipe dream of a 12 year old Grover farking Norquist, then you have some issues brother.

/we all have issues here.
2012-11-26 08:46:55 AM
2 votes:

animal color: What's wrong, submitter, don't understand economic theory? Pissed off that your bogeyman is right?

Your tears are delicious. Despite the fact that if you had your way you'd skull-fark the nation all to hell just so your team could win the next game.

Why don't you be quiet and let the adults figure it out?




I imagine he submits this same headline for every Krugman article; the question is why was it greenlit being this pants on head retarded. Because anyone who actually reads Krugman knows this is just a variation on the same thing he's been saying for years.  Deficit hawks are in an economic fantasy land.
2012-11-26 08:42:24 AM
2 votes:
What's wrong, submitter, don't understand economic theory? Pissed off that your bogeyman is right?

Your tears are delicious. Despite the fact that if you had your way you'd skull-fark the nation all to hell just so your team could win the next game.

Why don't you be quiet and let the adults figure it out?
2012-11-26 08:35:52 AM
2 votes:
But the deficit scolds aren't giving up. Now yet another organization, Fix the Debt, is campaigning for cuts to Social Security and Medicare, even while making lower tax rates a "core principle." That last part makes no sense in terms of the group's ostensible mission, but makes perfect sense if you look at the array of big corporations, from Goldman Sachs to the United Health Group, that are involved in the effort and would benefit from tax cuts. Hey, sacrifice is for the little people.
2012-11-26 12:06:27 PM
1 votes:

impaler: mrshowrules: wildcardjack: Might I remind you

Economics is not a science!

Might have to develop a theory of psychohistory to really understand things. Anyone interested in setting up a foundation to study that?

Even if you assume economics is more art than science.

Conservatives are painting this:

[i1.mirror.co.uk image 615x927]


FTFY


LOL. This is more accurate because they base their shiat on what real economists have done and just fark it up.
2012-11-26 11:27:53 AM
1 votes:
OK, now that we've all agreed that subby is an idiot and Republican tears taste good and America is not Greece, and etc. ... I have a serious question.

Some of us are old enough to remember the stagflation of the 1970s, when Western economies had both recession and inflation at the same time, even though Keynesian economic analysis at the time said "that such a crisis can't happen", to borrow a phrase.

So, with the deepest respect to the Nobel Prize-winning Krugman, and acknowledging that deflation is probably the greater risk, can any Farker explain why stagflation can't happen again? What systemic changes have taken place to forbid it?
2012-11-26 11:20:28 AM
1 votes:

hinten: I don't know about trolling but he is certainly stoking the fire:

These are difficult times for the deficit scolds who have dominated policy discussion for almost three years. One could almost feel sorry for them, if it weren't for their role in diverting attention from the ongoing problem of inadequate recovery, and thereby helping to perpetuate catastrophically high unemployment.
What has changed? For one thing, the crisis they predicted keeps not happening.


Pointing out reality is trolling to conservatives.
2012-11-26 10:57:08 AM
1 votes:

Thats No Moose: AverageAmericanGuy: For years, deficit scolds have held Washington in thrall with warnings of an imminent debt crisis, even though investors, who continue to buy U.S. bonds, clearly believe that such a crisis won't happen; economic analysis says that such a crisis can't happen; and the historical record shows no examples bearing any resemblance to our current situation in which such a crisis actually did happen.

If you ask me, it's time for Washington to stop worrying about this phantom menace - and to stop listening to the people who have been peddling this scare story in an attempt to get their way.

Famous last words.

Actually, he's right even from a historical perspective. At some point when interest rates and inflation rates DO show signs of climbing beyond sustainable rate, the US Fed has two massive weapons in its possession that will work very well: 1) raising interest rates (currently ~0) and reducing the monetary base (which was tripled in the recession and did fark-all to inflation). Ask Paul Volcker, Reagan's Fed chief. Today deflation is the threat (negative real interest rates on long-terms!), something the European periphery is already seeing.


And yet nobody is going to listen to us saying deflation is the real problem because we're about to plunge headfirst into Zimbabwean-style hyperinflation where we have to remove 30 zeros from the dollar in the span of three years.
2012-11-26 10:29:24 AM
1 votes:

PanicMan: cman: Now you know how I feel when people on my side have their political speech dismissed as a "racist attack" just because they *GASP* make an advertisement critical of the President

Bil Mahr doesn't represent me, and his opinions are his own.

Frankly, he's kind of an idiot. That seems to happen with anyone with airtime to fill.


That's like just like your opinion man. He has a few idiotic beliefs but very few people have explained just how messed the GOP party is as well as him. IMHO. Every time a watch his show he has at least one comment showing keen and original incite into American politics.
2012-11-26 09:44:27 AM
1 votes:

aaronx: As far as I have seen, Krugman's ideological opponents have, basically, used three lines of counter-attack:

- Point to various discredited-by-history Austrian-school theories
- Point to Greece, a country that doesn't even have its own currency, let alone any chance of borrowing in Drachmas.
- Point out that Krugman has a beard and the habit of saying mean things about their dumb ideas.

And yet they get treated as though their arguments are credible by most of the major news outlets.

Makes me kinda' angry, actually.


Have to agree and repeat this. We sorely need an honest discussion about the difference between Keynesian economics and supply-side economics. Current Republicans/conservatives still think businesses don't need customers to stay profitable, and are all about the corporate welfare.
2012-11-26 09:35:26 AM
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Serious Black: The market is willing to buy 20-year TIPS at negative interest after inflation.

Making some rather situationally optimistic assumptions regarding inflation, really. Assumptions that, y'know, everyone involved must be thinking are wrong or they'd not be buying the things.


That, or people think that the USD is the safest place to park their money and don't care about trying to get higher interest rates if those higher interest rates come with a risk of losing their principal.
2012-11-26 09:24:14 AM
1 votes:

cman: FTA

still depressed economy

Ok, can anyone make up their damned mind? Obama admin thinks our economy is steady, GOP thinks that we have sunk below Great Depression era, and now this tool states that the economy is shiat. Who is farking right?



Is it really that complicated? The economy is recovering/improving, but very slowly. If any time soon we are to catch back up to where we used to be on unemployment then the recovery needs to be sped up.
2012-11-26 09:24:11 AM
1 votes:

cman: FTA

still depressed economy

Ok, can anyone make up their damned mind? Obama admin thinks our economy is steady, GOP thinks that we have sunk below Great Depression era, and now this tool states that the economy is shiat. Who is farking right?


Steady and depressed are not antonyms, brosef. Steady indicates the rate of change, depressed indicates it's point in time, though that point is relative and not placed in any sort of context.

Words - now with 50% more meaning!™
2012-11-26 09:11:41 AM
1 votes:
You know, Krugman is completely right. We can keep running a deficit of 10% of GDP right up until it becomes a crisis, if it ever does, and then worry about it. Why be concerned about it earlier? And really, we need more stimulus so the deficit should be higher. A trillion dollar deficit is a good start but clearly isn't enough to get us to economic nirvana. Since government spending is immensely better at growing the GDP than private spending is, that trillion dollars in free money flowing into our $15 trillion economy must translate to about 10% of our GDP. Think what we could do with an extra trillion a year! Our GDP would grow over 10% every year, everyone would be employed, and we'd never face any consequences at all. If forced by so called "deficit hawk" hacks, with their short-sighted focus on long-term consequences, we could raise taxes to pay for some of that two trillion as taking money out of the private sector doesn't impact GDP at all. Raising taxes would further their partisan and corporate interests though, and really isn't necessary. High deficit spending results in free, safe growth forever, completely unlike the debt problems Europe is facing, and isn't related to the growth bubbles we've had here at all. I'm glad we have far thinking, non-partisan economists to keep the focus on what matters.
2012-11-26 09:11:14 AM
1 votes:

Barfmaker: So our government, unlike the Greek government, literally can't run out of money. After all, it can print the stuff.

They should print enough so that everyone can just retire.


Finally some real stupidity in the thread. I was starting to think you guys would never show up.
2012-11-26 09:05:11 AM
1 votes:

aaronx: As far as I have seen, Krugman's ideological opponents have, basically, used three lines of counter-attack:

- Point to various discredited-by-history Austrian-school theories
- Point to Greece, a country that doesn't even have its own currency, let alone any chance of borrowing in Drachmas.
- Point out that Krugman has a beard and the habit of saying mean things about their dumb ideas.

And yet they get treated as though their arguments are credible by most of the major news outlets.

Makes me kinda' angry, actually.


Not to split hairs, but isn't their policy more Chicago then Vienna? I realize Chicago is an offshoot of Vienna but feel it's where it got boiled down to "Government bad, free market good"
2012-11-26 09:04:53 AM
1 votes:

cman: FTA

still depressed economy

Ok, can anyone make up their damned mind? Obama admin thinks our economy is steady, GOP thinks that we have sunk below Great Depression era, and now this tool states that the economy is shiat. Who is farking right?


Decide for your damned self? I can't believe this is how real people process information.

Julie says Tommy's car is a piece of shiat. Tommy thinks his car is tits. Now car and driver has his car listed as one of the top 10 junkers of 2012.

Who is farking right?
2012-11-26 09:00:17 AM
1 votes:
I don't know about trolling but he is certainly stoking the fire:

These are difficult times for the deficit scolds who have dominated policy discussion for almost three years. One could almost feel sorry for them, if it weren't for their role in diverting attention from the ongoing problem of inadequate recovery, and thereby helping to perpetuate catastrophically high unemployment.
What has changed? For one thing, the crisis they predicted keeps not happening.
2012-11-26 08:56:05 AM
1 votes:

hinten: Interesting to see how Republicans are more concerned about government debt than personal debt.


Boobies troll is an excellent boobies troll.

/Boobs
2012-11-26 08:46:05 AM
1 votes:

animal color: What's wrong, submitter, don't understand economic theory? Pissed off that your bogeyman is right?

Your tears are delicious. Despite the fact that if you had your way you'd skull-fark the nation all to hell just so your team could win the next game.

Why don't you be quiet and let the adults figure it out?


No, no, you don't understand. We're Greece! Greece I tell you! That's why we have to cut social security, medicare, and all programs that help the poor and middle class. We also need to broaden the tax base so more people have "skin in the game." We all have to suffer together....

And, of course, we need to cut capital gains and estate taxes to zero and also cut income taxes on the wealthy. You know, to help the deficit.
2012-11-26 08:40:34 AM
1 votes:

AverageAmericanGuy: Famous last words.


Call us when it actually does. After all, what do university trained economic analysts know, right?
182
2012-11-26 08:31:16 AM
1 votes:

hinten: Interesting to see how Republicans are more concerned about government debt than personal debt about anything other than abortion and tax cuts.

2012-11-26 08:23:43 AM
1 votes:
Interesting to see how Republicans are more concerned about government debt than personal debt.
 
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