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(The New York Times)   Nobel Prize troll is still a troll   (nytimes.com) divider line 88
    More: Dumbass, lows, UnitedHealth Group, trolls, Greek government, debt limit  
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4715 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Nov 2012 at 8:24 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-26 08:23:43 AM  
Interesting to see how Republicans are more concerned about government debt than personal debt.
 
2012-11-26 08:28:36 AM  
For years, deficit scolds have held Washington in thrall with warnings of an imminent debt crisis, even though investors, who continue to buy U.S. bonds, clearly believe that such a crisis won't happen; economic analysis says that such a crisis can't happen; and the historical record shows no examples bearing any resemblance to our current situation in which such a crisis actually did happen.

If you ask me, it's time for Washington to stop worrying about this phantom menace - and to stop listening to the people who have been peddling this scare story in an attempt to get their way.


Famous last words.
 
2012-11-26 08:29:15 AM  
Only thing trolling here is the headline.  Trolling for what, I'm not sure.
 
2012-11-26 08:31:14 AM  
Yeah, what does HE know about economics. Soon there will be an idiot with a link to someone's blog totally showing how he's wrong.
 
182
2012-11-26 08:31:16 AM  

hinten: Interesting to see how Republicans are more concerned about government debt than personal debt about anything other than abortion and tax cuts.

 
2012-11-26 08:35:52 AM  
But the deficit scolds aren't giving up. Now yet another organization, Fix the Debt, is campaigning for cuts to Social Security and Medicare, even while making lower tax rates a "core principle." That last part makes no sense in terms of the group's ostensible mission, but makes perfect sense if you look at the array of big corporations, from Goldman Sachs to the United Health Group, that are involved in the effort and would benefit from tax cuts. Hey, sacrifice is for the little people.
 
2012-11-26 08:36:33 AM  
The market is willing to buy 20-year TIPS at negative interest after inflation. Why the hell would you not be like Fry if you were the federal government?

www.geekzenith.com
 
2012-11-26 08:39:15 AM  

Serious Black: The market is willing to buy 20-year TIPS at negative interest after inflation. Why the hell would you not be like Fry if you were the federal government?


Because national economies are the same as a personal checkbook at the kitchen table
 
2012-11-26 08:40:34 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Famous last words.


Call us when it actually does. After all, what do university trained economic analysts know, right?
 
2012-11-26 08:42:24 AM  
What's wrong, submitter, don't understand economic theory? Pissed off that your bogeyman is right?

Your tears are delicious. Despite the fact that if you had your way you'd skull-fark the nation all to hell just so your team could win the next game.

Why don't you be quiet and let the adults figure it out?
 
2012-11-26 08:46:05 AM  

animal color: What's wrong, submitter, don't understand economic theory? Pissed off that your bogeyman is right?

Your tears are delicious. Despite the fact that if you had your way you'd skull-fark the nation all to hell just so your team could win the next game.

Why don't you be quiet and let the adults figure it out?


No, no, you don't understand. We're Greece! Greece I tell you! That's why we have to cut social security, medicare, and all programs that help the poor and middle class. We also need to broaden the tax base so more people have "skin in the game." We all have to suffer together....

And, of course, we need to cut capital gains and estate taxes to zero and also cut income taxes on the wealthy. You know, to help the deficit.
 
2012-11-26 08:46:44 AM  
FTA

still depressed economy

Ok, can anyone make up their damned mind? Obama admin thinks our economy is steady, GOP thinks that we have sunk below Great Depression era, and now this tool states that the economy is shiat. Who is farking right?
 
2012-11-26 08:46:55 AM  

animal color: What's wrong, submitter, don't understand economic theory? Pissed off that your bogeyman is right?

Your tears are delicious. Despite the fact that if you had your way you'd skull-fark the nation all to hell just so your team could win the next game.

Why don't you be quiet and let the adults figure it out?




I imagine he submits this same headline for every Krugman article; the question is why was it greenlit being this pants on head retarded. Because anyone who actually reads Krugman knows this is just a variation on the same thing he's been saying for years.  Deficit hawks are in an economic fantasy land.
 
2012-11-26 08:49:33 AM  

Serious Black: The market is willing to buy 20-year TIPS at negative interest after inflation.


Making some rather situationally optimistic assumptions regarding inflation, really. Assumptions that, y'know, everyone involved must be thinking are wrong or they'd not be buying the things.
 
2012-11-26 08:50:06 AM  
As far as I have seen, Krugman's ideological opponents have, basically, used three lines of counter-attack:

- Point to various discredited-by-history Austrian-school theories
- Point to Greece, a country that doesn't even have its own currency, let alone any chance of borrowing in Drachmas.
- Point out that Krugman has a beard and the habit of saying mean things about their dumb ideas.

And yet they get treated as though their arguments are credible by most of the major news outlets.

Makes me kinda' angry, actually.
 
2012-11-26 08:50:17 AM  
Is this about Obama?

// NYT blocked for me
 
2012-11-26 08:52:25 AM  
Can't we build an enormous bronze god and sacrifice the children of takers in it to appease the wrathful Saint Reagan?

Nobody ever listens to me.
 
2012-11-26 08:53:37 AM  

aaronx: As far as I have seen, Krugman's ideological opponents have, basically, used three lines of counter-attack:

- Point to various discredited-by-history Austrian-school theories
- Point to Greece, a country that doesn't even have its own currency, let alone any chance of borrowing in Drachmas.
- Point out that Krugman has a beard and the habit of saying mean things about their dumb ideas.

And yet they get treated as though their arguments are credible by most of the major news outlets.

Makes me kinda' angry, actually.



There's remarkable agreement among economists on most policy questions.
 
2012-11-26 08:55:22 AM  

aaronx: As far as I have seen, Krugman's ideological opponents have, basically, used three lines of counter-attack:

- Point to various discredited-by-history Austrian-school theories
- Point to Greece, a country that doesn't even have its own currency, let alone any chance of borrowing in Drachmas.
- Point out that Krugman has a beard and the habit of saying mean things about their dumb ideas.

And yet they get treated as though their arguments are credible by most of the major news outlets.

Makes me kinda' angry, actually.


Now you know how I feel when people on my side have their political speech dismissed as a "racist attack" just because they *GASP* make an advertisement critical of the President
 
2012-11-26 08:55:45 AM  

DarnoKonrad: the question is why was it greenlit being this pants on head retarded


Finally, one I know the answer to. It's because this site is an utter piece of crap that despite itself sometimes has amusing or even intelligent user-submitted content.
 
2012-11-26 08:56:05 AM  

hinten: Interesting to see how Republicans are more concerned about government debt than personal debt.


Boobies troll is an excellent boobies troll.

/Boobs
 
2012-11-26 08:58:13 AM  

Kibbler: Can't we build an enormous bronze god and sacrifice the children of takers in it to appease the wrathful Saint Reagan?

Nobody ever listens to me.


We've already got the bronze idol.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-11-26 09:00:17 AM  
I don't know about trolling but he is certainly stoking the fire:

These are difficult times for the deficit scolds who have dominated policy discussion for almost three years. One could almost feel sorry for them, if it weren't for their role in diverting attention from the ongoing problem of inadequate recovery, and thereby helping to perpetuate catastrophically high unemployment.
What has changed? For one thing, the crisis they predicted keeps not happening.
 
2012-11-26 09:01:51 AM  

bulldg4life: Yeah, what does HE know about economics. Soon there will be an idiot with a link to someone's blog totally showing how he's wrong.


Or a guy who can barely handle his home economy comparing the country's debt to his own.

Probably not counting his mortgage and lying about his cc balance too.
 
2012-11-26 09:02:08 AM  
Nobel prize is a troll!
 
2012-11-26 09:04:53 AM  

cman: FTA

still depressed economy

Ok, can anyone make up their damned mind? Obama admin thinks our economy is steady, GOP thinks that we have sunk below Great Depression era, and now this tool states that the economy is shiat. Who is farking right?


Decide for your damned self? I can't believe this is how real people process information.

Julie says Tommy's car is a piece of shiat. Tommy thinks his car is tits. Now car and driver has his car listed as one of the top 10 junkers of 2012.

Who is farking right?
 
2012-11-26 09:05:11 AM  

aaronx: As far as I have seen, Krugman's ideological opponents have, basically, used three lines of counter-attack:

- Point to various discredited-by-history Austrian-school theories
- Point to Greece, a country that doesn't even have its own currency, let alone any chance of borrowing in Drachmas.
- Point out that Krugman has a beard and the habit of saying mean things about their dumb ideas.

And yet they get treated as though their arguments are credible by most of the major news outlets.

Makes me kinda' angry, actually.


Not to split hairs, but isn't their policy more Chicago then Vienna? I realize Chicago is an offshoot of Vienna but feel it's where it got boiled down to "Government bad, free market good"
 
2012-11-26 09:08:37 AM  

cman: aaronx: As far as I have seen, Krugman's ideological opponents have, basically, used three lines of counter-attack:

- Point to various discredited-by-history Austrian-school theories
- Point to Greece, a country that doesn't even have its own currency, let alone any chance of borrowing in Drachmas.
- Point out that Krugman has a beard and the habit of saying mean things about their dumb ideas.

And yet they get treated as though their arguments are credible by most of the major news outlets.

Makes me kinda' angry, actually.

Now you know how I feel when people on my side have their political speech dismissed as a "racist attack" just because they *GASP* make an advertisement critical of the President


That sounded a lot like Bill Maher jumping at shadows and an ENTIRE PANEL FULL OF LIBERALS telling him to stop it. If that makes you angry the same way I get frustrated at the systematic refusal to accept expert analysis on our economy in favor of a partisan pledge to obey the pipe dream of a 12 year old Grover farking Norquist, then you have some issues brother.

/we all have issues here.
 
2012-11-26 09:08:47 AM  
So our government, unlike the Greek government, literally can't run out of money. After all, it can print the stuff.

They should print enough so that everyone can just retire.
 
2012-11-26 09:11:14 AM  

Barfmaker: So our government, unlike the Greek government, literally can't run out of money. After all, it can print the stuff.

They should print enough so that everyone can just retire.


Finally some real stupidity in the thread. I was starting to think you guys would never show up.
 
2012-11-26 09:11:29 AM  

hinten: I don't know about trolling but he is certainly stoking the fire:

These are difficult times for the deficit scolds who have dominated policy discussion for almost three years. One could almost feel sorry for them, if it weren't for their role in diverting attention from the ongoing problem of inadequate recovery, and thereby helping to perpetuate catastrophically high unemployment.
What has changed? For one thing, the crisis they predicted keeps not happening.


In the same way that the villagers were stoking the fire by telling the little shepherd boy to not sound the alarm unless there really was a wolf.
 
2012-11-26 09:11:41 AM  
You know, Krugman is completely right. We can keep running a deficit of 10% of GDP right up until it becomes a crisis, if it ever does, and then worry about it. Why be concerned about it earlier? And really, we need more stimulus so the deficit should be higher. A trillion dollar deficit is a good start but clearly isn't enough to get us to economic nirvana. Since government spending is immensely better at growing the GDP than private spending is, that trillion dollars in free money flowing into our $15 trillion economy must translate to about 10% of our GDP. Think what we could do with an extra trillion a year! Our GDP would grow over 10% every year, everyone would be employed, and we'd never face any consequences at all. If forced by so called "deficit hawk" hacks, with their short-sighted focus on long-term consequences, we could raise taxes to pay for some of that two trillion as taking money out of the private sector doesn't impact GDP at all. Raising taxes would further their partisan and corporate interests though, and really isn't necessary. High deficit spending results in free, safe growth forever, completely unlike the debt problems Europe is facing, and isn't related to the growth bubbles we've had here at all. I'm glad we have far thinking, non-partisan economists to keep the focus on what matters.
 
2012-11-26 09:15:44 AM  

cman: Now you know how I feel when people on my side have their political speech dismissed as a "racist attack" just because they *GASP* make an advertisement critical of the President


Bil Mahr doesn't represent me, and his opinions are his own.

Frankly, he's kind of an idiot. That seems to happen with anyone with airtime to fill.
 
2012-11-26 09:17:53 AM  

SomeAmerican: You know, Krugman is completely right. We can keep running a deficit of 10% of GDP right up until it becomes a crisis, if it ever does, and then worry about it. Why be concerned about it earlier? And really, we need more stimulus so the deficit should be higher. A trillion dollar deficit is a good start but clearly isn't enough to get us to economic nirvana. Since government spending is immensely better at growing the GDP than private spending is, that trillion dollars in free money flowing into our $15 trillion economy must translate to about 10% of our GDP. Think what we could do with an extra trillion a year! Our GDP would grow over 10% every year, everyone would be employed, and we'd never face any consequences at all. If forced by so called "deficit hawk" hacks, with their short-sighted focus on long-term consequences, we could raise taxes to pay for some of that two trillion as taking money out of the private sector doesn't impact GDP at all. Raising taxes would further their partisan and corporate interests though, and really isn't necessary. High deficit spending results in free, safe growth forever, completely unlike the debt problems Europe is facing, and isn't related to the growth bubbles we've had here at all. I'm glad we have far thinking, non-partisan economists to keep the focus on what matters.


So then I assume you believe we should let all the bush tax cuts expire, allow ACA to go fully into effect, let the automatic budget cuts agreed to as part of the debt ceiling negotiations go into effect and wash our hands of the whole mess?

You don't appear to have an opinion except to sarcastically agree with Krugman. But ... stripping away the sarcasm... I can't help but think you SHOULD agree with Krugman. And then I'm too deep down the rabbit hole to figure out if you are actually being sarcastic of if I need more coffee.
 
2012-11-26 09:20:10 AM  

PanicMan: cman: Now you know how I feel when people on my side have their political speech dismissed as a "racist attack" just because they *GASP* make an advertisement critical of the President

Bil Mahr doesn't represent me, and his opinions are his own.

Frankly, he's kind of an idiot. That seems to happen with anyone with airtime to fill.


Conservatives don't seem to understand that outside of the far left there is not this cult of personality around our mouthpieces/elected officials. We are able to separate an idea from a person, thus why we don't have a liberal equivalent of Saint Regan. We avoid demigod-ing.
 
2012-11-26 09:22:55 AM  

BeesNuts: You don't appear to have an opinion except to sarcastically agree with Krugman. But ... stripping away the sarcasm... I can't help but think you SHOULD agree with Krugman. And then I'm too deep down the rabbit hole to figure out if you are actually being sarcastic of if I need more coffee.


I think he believes that Keynesian economics calls for debt spending once you have the economy going, actually you are suppose to save during good times for bad times. You know like how Clinton had a surplus that Bush squandered with tax cuts and then lacked emergency funds when we needed them. (yes I realize even with a surplus we had debt)
 
2012-11-26 09:24:11 AM  

cman: FTA

still depressed economy

Ok, can anyone make up their damned mind? Obama admin thinks our economy is steady, GOP thinks that we have sunk below Great Depression era, and now this tool states that the economy is shiat. Who is farking right?


Steady and depressed are not antonyms, brosef. Steady indicates the rate of change, depressed indicates it's point in time, though that point is relative and not placed in any sort of context.

Words - now with 50% more meaning!™
 
2012-11-26 09:24:14 AM  

cman: FTA

still depressed economy

Ok, can anyone make up their damned mind? Obama admin thinks our economy is steady, GOP thinks that we have sunk below Great Depression era, and now this tool states that the economy is shiat. Who is farking right?



Is it really that complicated? The economy is recovering/improving, but very slowly. If any time soon we are to catch back up to where we used to be on unemployment then the recovery needs to be sped up.
 
2012-11-26 09:35:26 AM  

Jim_Callahan: Serious Black: The market is willing to buy 20-year TIPS at negative interest after inflation.

Making some rather situationally optimistic assumptions regarding inflation, really. Assumptions that, y'know, everyone involved must be thinking are wrong or they'd not be buying the things.


That, or people think that the USD is the safest place to park their money and don't care about trying to get higher interest rates if those higher interest rates come with a risk of losing their principal.
 
2012-11-26 09:40:32 AM  
 
2012-11-26 09:44:27 AM  

aaronx: As far as I have seen, Krugman's ideological opponents have, basically, used three lines of counter-attack:

- Point to various discredited-by-history Austrian-school theories
- Point to Greece, a country that doesn't even have its own currency, let alone any chance of borrowing in Drachmas.
- Point out that Krugman has a beard and the habit of saying mean things about their dumb ideas.

And yet they get treated as though their arguments are credible by most of the major news outlets.

Makes me kinda' angry, actually.


Have to agree and repeat this. We sorely need an honest discussion about the difference between Keynesian economics and supply-side economics. Current Republicans/conservatives still think businesses don't need customers to stay profitable, and are all about the corporate welfare.
 
2012-11-26 09:48:53 AM  
I think subby has a place waiting for him on the House Committee on Science and Technology.
 
2012-11-26 09:49:00 AM  

cman: FTA

still depressed economy

Ok, can anyone make up their damned mind? Obama admin thinks our economy is steady, GOP thinks that we have sunk below Great Depression era, and now this tool states that the economy is shiat. Who is farking right?


We're no longer in freefall. Interpret that to your political advantage. Go.
 
2012-11-26 09:52:51 AM  

Shvetz: Have to agree and repeat this. We sorely need an honest discussion about the difference between Keynesian economics and supply-side economics. Current Republicans/conservatives still think businesses don't need customers to stay profitable, and are all about the corporate welfare.


I like to refer to supply-side as field of dreams economics, if you build it they will come
doesn't matter if they already have enough, it's not relevant to the economy, etc... For people who claim to be free marketers they sure do put up a lot of barriers to entry and exit from the markets
 
2012-11-26 09:55:53 AM  

cman: FTA

still depressed economy

Ok, can anyone make up their damned mind? Obama admin thinks our economy is steady, GOP thinks that we have sunk below Great Depression era, and now this tool states that the economy is shiat. Who is farking right?


Being "in a depression" and being "depressed" are different meanings; the former means negative growth over many successive quarters (no idea how many, two make for a recession) or large amounts of negative growth in a short time; a 'depressed' economy is just one that it riding below its long-term growth trend. AFAIK the US economy is growing at pre-crisis years but hasn't yet made up that gap caused by the recession.

stateofworkingamerica.org
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-11-26 09:56:52 AM  

Dinki: AverageAmericanGuy: Famous last words.

Call us when it actually does. After all, what do university trained economic analysts know, right?


They don't know that Rush is right. Always.
 
2012-11-26 10:16:47 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: For years, deficit scolds have held Washington in thrall with warnings of an imminent debt crisis, even though investors, who continue to buy U.S. bonds, clearly believe that such a crisis won't happen; economic analysis says that such a crisis can't happen; and the historical record shows no examples bearing any resemblance to our current situation in which such a crisis actually did happen.

If you ask me, it's time for Washington to stop worrying about this phantom menace - and to stop listening to the people who have been peddling this scare story in an attempt to get their way.

Famous last words.


Actually, he's right even from a historical perspective. At some point when interest rates and inflation rates DO show signs of climbing beyond sustainable rate, the US Fed has two massive weapons in its possession that will work very well: 1) raising interest rates (currently ~0) and reducing the monetary base (which was tripled in the recession and did fark-all to inflation). Ask Paul Volcker, Reagan's Fed chief. Today deflation is the threat (negative real interest rates on long-terms!), something the European periphery is already seeing.
 
2012-11-26 10:18:55 AM  
I was watching a John Hancock mutual fund commercial yesterday, and if you haven't seen the ad, a bunch of men say, "maybe we should just stick money under the mattress" and are subsequently derided by their wives

They were trying to make a point that sticking money under the mattress is the wrong/stupid thing to do, but given the run over the past 12 years or so, I'm not sure it's the worst plan. If you had put gold under your mattress, you'd be doing pretty well.

And it's not exactly a glowing endorsement of the investment industry in general.
 
2012-11-26 10:27:05 AM  
...and is still right.
 
2012-11-26 10:27:38 AM  

bdub77: They were trying to make a point that sticking money under the mattress is the wrong/stupid thing to do, but given the run over the past 12 years or so, I'm not sure it's the worst plan. If you had put gold wheat under your mattress, you'd be doing pretty well.

 
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