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(National Journal)   Texas experiments with a $10,000 bachelor's degree, accepting advanced placement credit for sheep shearing   (nationaljournal.com) divider line 75
    More: Spiffy, Texas, bachelor's degrees, Rick Perry, cost curve, federal student loans, University of Texas at Arlington, Tarrant County, University of Texas  
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5220 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Nov 2012 at 10:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-26 11:29:43 AM
milsorgen

Heaven forbid the richest country on the planet provides more than the minimum education to it's citizens. But hey gotta make sure private industry can whet it's beak on the backs of the youth, amirite or amirite?

I always love that line.
 
2012-11-26 11:29:57 AM
All this talk of GPA makes me glad I started a business right out of college. No client or partner gives a shiat about that and I haven't written a resume in a decade. Demonstrable skillset and personal work ethic ftw
 
2012-11-26 11:32:10 AM
I currently have around 15 employees.

These are IT Consultants who work on large (Fortune 500) company's software implementations, etc.

I don't give a fark if they finished college. About half of them did not, but they DO have the ability to think through problems. Overall the employees as a whole are well above average and there's no distinction between the ones with degrees vs. the ones without.

It's probably been over 5 years since any of our customers stated a consultant had to have a college degree as well.
 
2012-11-26 11:32:25 AM
Marcintosh


By setting a price and then making everything fit into that "box", that gives administrations cart blanche to gut programs, decline to hire qualified professors, rely on adjuncts that do not have the financial wherewithal to advance their skills, skimp on security, maintenance and upgrades to equipment and technology.

Currently I'm teaching with poorly maintained equipment that is well over ten years old in an area that is moving forward at an astounding rate. I've moved away from teaching specifics and into generalities just so that my students can catch up to current day on their own when necessary.

I fully agree that changes to this hidebound industry (higher education) must be made and I think that this is a fine idea and a great start but it needs more in the way of refinement.

I have taught in a for-profit college, a state university, a private university and a community college.
I know what of I speak.


Hmmm, not so sure. Sounds like you can't hold a job.
 
2012-11-26 11:38:03 AM

Buffalo77: As an aside, and further demonstration of how seriously some companies take this, I was told by someone in our uni's career center that if I have a 3.837 on my transcript, it is NOT acceptable to round up to 3.84. I'm sure most recruiters wouldn't care, but some apparently have complained about students reducing the precision of their reported GPA to inflate it that tiny extra amount.

Rostin, settle down. What he is talking about are the students who get BAs in Gen Business or some such degree who are then going to work as a management trainee at some large dept store or sales training for some oilfield supply company.

Not some top flight Architecture or Engineering firm but maybe some guy on his own looking to hire someone cheap to do his CAD work.


JUST for clarification ....somewhat THIS.....

When I graduated in 1992 I had quite a few years (5?) job experience under my belt and then I also had 10 years in the military. They wanted to see a RESUME, they did not give a rats ass about my GPS or what I did in school.
Buffalo77 is mostly right (good guess) I was a Business Major and my last interview lasted 15 minutes as the guy who hired me already knew many folks I had already worked with and for, (unbeknownst to me) as he was retired military in a similar career field.

I AGREE that entry level just coming out of school, you'd better have your crap together and yes, GPA and all that can be important if this is your first job, but job experience and a solid resume trumps all that crap EVERYDAY and eventually no one cares much about the numbers.

/ Yes i work with engineers and rocket scientists and all that and yes it probably applies for them.
 
2012-11-26 11:40:28 AM

Buffalo77: Not some top flight Architecture or Engineering firm but maybe some guy on his own looking to hire someone cheap to do his CAD work.


I've only been asked one time what my GPA was. I said, "2.1" Hiring guy say "Good, I was wondering if you were going to lie to me, there is no way you could have this much work experience and have a good GPA in something as hard as Eng Physics." Most other engineering places I've worked, if they want a new fresh from school engineer the just hire you and let you sink or swim in the first 6 months. Of course that was 10 years ago, things may have changed now.
 
2012-11-26 11:40:57 AM
I think this is a step in the right direction but I don't think it will work. In order to get this degree you have to start taking college classes in a public highschool. The education system here is so bad the first kid who tries this will find themselves completely unprepared. Studies have shown that 1/3 of kids graduating from a dallas county highschool read at a 5th grade lvl. Plus it does nothing to help anyone who has already graduated highschool.
 
2012-11-26 11:51:15 AM

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: JackieRabbit: University of Walmart?

I'd hate to see how stupid someone with a $10K college degree would be. Maybe a bachelor's degree will only require 16 semester hours.

Stupid? One has little to do with the other IMHO. I've met too many people with various college degrees who just weren't all that bright. That;s not an indictment of higher education, but I would hesitate to tar someone with a "McDegree" as stupid.


I'm not sure that college cost is the appropriate variable. Raw intelligence, exposure to knowledge, demonstrated above average knowledge, critical thinking, emotional and social IQ, and social networks would all be better indicators.

Now is a great time to be considering just what education should be and how it fits into our society. The institution of college holds plenty of remnants from the days when it was a place to warehouse the young adults of the wealthy that may no longer be useful to us.

What knowledge and skills should be taught? Do we need to teach Latin, Literature, Physics? If there is some core of non-economically useful curriculum what should it be? I might argue that it should include plenty of life skills classes (parenting, financial skills, plumbing, carpentry) as well as the usual Literature, Theatre, Art, and Sciences for non-science majors.

Is college only useful for a trade? Should we just teach courses that are useful in whatever economic endeavor will support us to old age? Are we only cogs in a machine? In that case, why waste time on non-major classes.

With expanding technology, why should a degree only be available from a single institution? Can I put together an agreed upon curriculum from a variety of sources including multiple colleges to gain the required knowledge? How would I prove I had that knowledge if gained in a non-traditional college.

Using history as an example, why would we need a thousand history profs when we can view the best lectures from the best history prof? Why should the best history prof be restricted to just teaching at one school and relying on income from that school? Could I get a history degree by taking on-line courses from the best profs and taking some sort of secured tests? How would we judge writing assignments?

How do we measure outcomes so we know that the marginal cost of University X vs. University Y is worth it? Can we determine a basic, core curriculum that every student in every university should have?

Looking way back at my college days, what should we do with aimless idiot youth while they are learning and maturing?

Like health care, this is a fascinating topic and I'm not seeing the kind of thoughtful discussion that we need to be having.

A $10K, or even cheaper degree might be a great idea. And economic forces can sometimes be helpful in forcing innovation and change.
 
2012-11-26 11:54:11 AM

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: JackieRabbit: University of Walmart?

I'd hate to see how stupid someone with a $10K college degree would be. Maybe a bachelor's degree will only require 16 semester hours.

Stupid? One has little to do with the other IMHO. I've met too many people with various college degrees who just weren't all that bright. Thats not an indictment of higher education, but I would hesitate to tar someone with a "McDegree" as stupid.


Maybe stupid isn't the correct word. Uneducated would be better. Because you are correct. I know many, many people who are smart, but uneducated. My basic point is that it is not possible to properly educate someone on a mere $10K. Hell, high school costs more than this.
 
2012-11-26 11:56:02 AM
How to earn a Rick Perry BS in evolutionary biology: reject evolution as Satan's mischief and embrace the Book of Genesis as the only scientific reality anyone needs to know, donate $10K to the Republican Party.

How to earn a Rick Perry BS in history: donate $10K to the Republican Party, and attend any of David Barton's* weekend Christian Revisionist History seminars to study how Thomas Jefferson was actually an evangelical Christian, and how the founders intended the U.S. to be ruled by "Biblical law," excluding non-Christians from public office.

/ * endorsed by other eminent historians, like Mike Huckabee: "I almost wish that there would be something like a simultaneous telecast and all Americans would be forced, forced - at gunpoint, no less - to listen to every David Barton message. And I think our country would be better for it."
 
2012-11-26 12:37:48 PM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: Deep Contact: So just put down 3.84, no one checks.

Yes, they do. And with more than a phone call for a lot of jobs. They want the official transcript.


Then get good grades, problem solved.

/GPA affects your first job. After that, it's all about performance.
//worked my way from a philosophy degree to a current fantastic job at an awesome IT company
///bootsrappy
 
2012-11-26 12:44:40 PM

ChipNASA: I also had 10 years in the military.


The military work will trump just about anything. At least, with my agency. If a veteran had applied for the same position I had, I wouldn't've had a chance, regardless if I was already working in another state as the same position.

Your GPA does matter, and *real* transcripts are required by jobs, particularly ones that pay well. For construction or maintenance or something, no. But for higher jobs that rely heavily on your classroom work, yes.

You're still wrong. At least, in regards to a lot of companies/agencies that hire, particularly public sector. Not all, though. So maybe in some parts, you are right. Just still not good advice that you give. :)
 
2012-11-26 01:58:35 PM

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: JackieRabbit: University of Walmart?

I'd hate to see how stupid someone with a $10K college degree would be. Maybe a bachelor's degree will only require 16 semester hours.

Stupid? One has little to do with the other IMHO. I've met too many people with various college degrees who just weren't all that bright. Thats not an indictment of higher education, but I would hesitate to tar someone with a "McDegree" as stupid.


THIS. There are a lot of educated but dumb people. Book smart and clueless otherwise. Yes you learned screw A goes in to hole B but you insist on using a Phillips head screwdriver on a slotted head screw.
 
2012-11-26 02:05:19 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: "Nationally, 57 percent of students who earned bachelor's degrees in 2011 from public four-year colleges graduated with debt, and the average debt per borrower was $23,800-up from $20,100 a decade earlier"

Wow. I didn't realize that so few graduated with debt and that the average debt was that low.
Only a 15% increase from a decade earlier.

So what were the 0WS people whining about?


My debt is over an order of magnitude larger. Ivy league + Medical school + residency salary will do that to you. It's quite unpleasant to think about.
 
2012-11-26 02:09:51 PM

Liese: ChipNASA: I also had 10 years in the military.

The military work will trump just about anything. At least, with my agency. If a veteran had applied for the same position I had, I wouldn't've had a chance, regardless if I was already working in another state as the same position.

Your GPA does matter, and *real* transcripts are required by jobs, particularly ones that pay well. For construction or maintenance or something, no. But for higher jobs that rely heavily on your classroom work, yes.

You're still wrong. At least, in regards to a lot of companies/agencies that hire, particularly public sector. Not all, though. So maybe in some parts, you are right. Just still not good advice that you give. :)


I wll certainly take a Mea Culpa as many of you have pointed out from YOUR experience that HR folks DO care (probably according to the career field) what you did in college and what your GPA and all was.

Of course this is FARK.COM so any generalization is equally dismissed with facts or other equally as relevant experience to someone else's basis of thought...
 
2012-11-26 02:11:00 PM

ChipNASA: Liese: ChipNASA: I also had 10 years in the military.

The military work will trump just about anything. At least, with my agency. If a veteran had applied for the same position I had, I wouldn't've had a chance, regardless if I was already working in another state as the same position.

Your GPA does matter, and *real* transcripts are required by jobs, particularly ones that pay well. For construction or maintenance or something, no. But for higher jobs that rely heavily on your classroom work, yes.

You're still wrong. At least, in regards to a lot of companies/agencies that hire, particularly public sector. Not all, though. So maybe in some parts, you are right. Just still not good advice that you give. :)

I wll certainly take a Mea Culpa as many of you have pointed out from YOUR experience that HR folks DO care (probably according to the career field) what you did in college and what your GPA and all was.

Of course this is FARK.COM so any generalization is equally dismissed with facts or other equally as relevant experience to someone else's basis of thought...


filmcrithulk.files.wordpress.com
/damn preview and add buttons
 
2012-11-26 02:20:56 PM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: Deep Contact: So just put down 3.84, no one checks.

Yes, they do. And with more than a phone call for a lot of jobs. They want the official transcript.


The official transcript, that's funny.
Link
 
2012-11-26 02:27:51 PM
I guess Perry won that bet with Romney
 
2012-11-26 02:54:57 PM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: tenpoundsofcheese: So what were the 0WS people whining about?

They didn't want to have to pay for school (read: anything at all, really) AT ALL.


I think you guys got lost on your way to the Politics tab.
 
2012-11-26 03:00:11 PM

Doom MD: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: "Nationally, 57 percent of students who earned bachelor's degrees in 2011 from public four-year colleges graduated with debt, and the average debt per borrower was $23,800-up from $20,100 a decade earlier"

Wow. I didn't realize that so few graduated with debt and that the average debt was that low.
Only a 15% increase from a decade earlier.

So what were the 0WS people whining about?

My debt is over an order of magnitude larger. Ivy league + Medical school + residency salary will do that to you. It's quite unpleasant to think about.


yah..ur life sounds rotten
 
2012-11-26 03:22:28 PM
This is what happens when we let an aggy become governor.
 
2012-11-26 09:17:46 PM

CujoQuarrel: ChipNASA: Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.
They also don't care if you spent $5,000 or $150,000 for your piece of parchment. THAT, my friends is YOUR problem.
LEARN THIS, KNOW THIS, LIVE THIS.
Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool

GPA's matter. Trust me.


So does where you got your degree. Directional State University Auxiliary Campus isn't going to get hired if there is another option available.
 
2012-11-26 09:49:22 PM
Remember kids, Socialism is okay when Republicans do it.
 
2012-11-27 08:49:40 AM

iheartscotch: At least someone is trying to lower tuition. Not just raising it every year.

/ maybe that Rick Perry isn't quite the babby eating fruit cake that the media portrays him to be


I have been pleased to heat about some of Perry's ideas. He does seem to not quite be the villain I thought he was.
 
2012-11-27 09:31:35 AM

Buffalo77: Marcintosh


By setting a price and then making everything fit into that "box", that gives administrations cart blanche to gut programs, decline to hire qualified professors, rely on adjuncts that do not have the financial wherewithal to advance their skills, skimp on security, maintenance and upgrades to equipment and technology.

Currently I'm teaching with poorly maintained equipment that is well over ten years old in an area that is moving forward at an astounding rate. I've moved away from teaching specifics and into generalities just so that my students can catch up to current day on their own when necessary.

I fully agree that changes to this hidebound industry (higher education) must be made and I think that this is a fine idea and a great start but it needs more in the way of refinement.

I have taught in a for-profit college, a state university, a private university and a community college.
I know what of I speak.

Hmmm, not so sure. Sounds like you can't hold a job.


Ah, so you belong to that class of American that was born there, grew up there, worked there and plans on dying there. Good, glad to see you're still around and living your limited world view. Happy holidays
 
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