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(National Journal)   Texas experiments with a $10,000 bachelor's degree, accepting advanced placement credit for sheep shearing   (nationaljournal.com) divider line 75
    More: Spiffy, Texas, bachelor's degrees, Rick Perry, cost curve, federal student loans, University of Texas at Arlington, Tarrant County, University of Texas  
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5222 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Nov 2012 at 10:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-26 10:12:32 AM
Everything's bigger in Texas, particularly the hydroencephaly.
 
2012-11-26 10:15:35 AM
Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.
They also don't care if you spent $5,000 or $150,000 for your piece of parchment. THAT, my friends is YOUR problem.
LEARN THIS, KNOW THIS, LIVE THIS.
Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool
 
2012-11-26 10:16:05 AM
At least someone is trying to lower tuition. Not just raising it every year.

/ maybe that Rick Perry isn't quite the babby eating fruit cake that the media portrays him to be
 
2012-11-26 10:16:27 AM
FTA: "Nationally, 57 percent of students who earned bachelor's degrees in 2011 from public four-year colleges graduated with debt, and the average debt per borrower was $23,800-up from $20,100 a decade earlier"

Wow. I didn't realize that so few graduated with debt and that the average debt was that low.
Only a 15% increase from a decade earlier.

So what were the 0WS people whining about?
 
2012-11-26 10:17:45 AM

Valiente: Everything's bigger in Texas, particularly the hydroencephaly.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-26 10:18:28 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: So what were the 0WS people whining about?


They didn't want to have to pay for school (read: anything at all, really) AT ALL.
 
2012-11-26 10:18:30 AM
Considering that you need a college degree to be competitive in most fields, I think it's a good idea.
 
2012-11-26 10:19:00 AM

ChipNASA: Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool


riiiggght.

solution is that "Everyone Should be in the 1%"

(as seen at a protest)
 
2012-11-26 10:20:34 AM
It's an interesting concept. Combines On-Line, late high school, community college and regular college into one bundle.



// That recap is for the Farkers who won't read the article before posting
 
2012-11-26 10:20:35 AM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: tenpoundsofcheese: So what were the 0WS people whining about?

They didn't want to have to pay for school (read: anything at all, really) AT ALL.


Yes, that's it exactly. It has nothing to do with protesting the shameful lack of regulatory enforcement on the financial world.
 
2012-11-26 10:20:39 AM
Hey subs I think you are thinking about AtM not Texas on the headline.

AtM animal husbandry

/Boomer
 
2012-11-26 10:21:48 AM

ChipNASA: Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.
They also don't care if you spent $5,000 or $150,000 for your piece of parchment. THAT, my friends is YOUR problem.
LEARN THIS, KNOW THIS, LIVE THIS.
Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool


GPA's matter. Trust me.
 
2012-11-26 10:23:08 AM
This is just as dumb as health care policies that declare the prices of drugs and procedures by fiat. I doubt there's any easy, fair fix for out of control costs in higher ed. Everyone (universities, students, employers) has become too dependent on the availability of artificially cheap student loans.
 
2012-11-26 10:24:50 AM
Any pro active approach to addressing the disparity between the perceived and actual value of a college degree is a good thing. Just surprised Ricky Bobby is starting the conversation - got to be a kickback somewhere -
 
2012-11-26 10:25:39 AM

Orgasmatron138: Edward Rooney Dean of Students: tenpoundsofcheese: So what were the 0WS people whining about?

They didn't want to have to pay for school (read: anything at all, really) AT ALL.

Yes, that's it exactly. It has nothing to do with protesting the shameful lack of regulatory enforcement on the financial world.


what does that have to do with the fact that they were whining about student loans and wanted them forgiven?

besides, if what you said is true, why were they protesting Wall Street instead of the 0bama administration? Did they think it was Wall Street's job to enforce regulations on themselves?
 
2012-11-26 10:26:05 AM
I'm guessing a sheep shearing degree would be more useful and more challenging than many of the BS degrees people get.
 
2012-11-26 10:26:57 AM

ChipNASA: Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.
They also don't care if you spent $5,000 or $150,000 for your piece of parchment. THAT, my friends is YOUR problem.
LEARN THIS, KNOW THIS, LIVE THIS.
Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool


Speak for yourself, liberal arts major.

Entry level employment in engineering or the sciences very much so cares about your GPA, and to some extent your school, too.

\I say to some extent because it's more important how easy you'll be to work with. Good managers will take a personable guy who went to a second tier state school over an MIT grad who talks to himself more than a schizophrenic on a street corner.
 
2012-11-26 10:27:01 AM

ChipNASA: Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.


This isn't true "for the most part", and it is a major factor in rising costs. Students keeping paying exorbitant costs to get into the "right" schools because a lot of employers won't even consider you if you did go to a school on their list. This is especially true for early career workers who don't much experience or accomplishments to demonstrate their worth.
 
2012-11-26 10:28:14 AM

ChipNASA: Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.
They also don't care if you spent $5,000 or $150,000 for your piece of parchment. THAT, my friends is YOUR problem.
LEARN THIS, KNOW THIS, LIVE THIS.
Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool


Almost every entry level job I've applied to has had a minimum GPA requirement. Back before I returned to school and I was on the other side of the interviewing table, I certainly cared, and my boss cared even more. The advice you are giving is dangerous and wrong, at least for engineering students.
 
2012-11-26 10:28:37 AM
Will Fencing still be offered?
 
2012-11-26 10:28:40 AM

Rostin: This is just as dumb as health care policies that declare the prices of drugs and procedures by fiat. I doubt there's any easy, fair fix for out of control costs in higher ed. Everyone (universities, students, employers) has become too dependent on the availability of artificially cheap student loans.


That may be why tuition has risen so much: The easy availability of government money has caused cost to expand to take in all the available money.
 
2012-11-26 10:29:23 AM

Rostin: ChipNASA: Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.
They also don't care if you spent $5,000 or $150,000 for your piece of parchment. THAT, my friends is YOUR problem.
LEARN THIS, KNOW THIS, LIVE THIS.
Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool

Almost every entry level job I've applied to has had a minimum GPA requirement. Back before I returned to school and I was on the other side of the interviewing table, I certainly cared, and my boss cared even more. The advice you are giving is dangerous and wrong, at least for engineering students.


So just put down 3.84, no one checks.
 
2012-11-26 10:29:32 AM
Rallo said, adding that students must have an ACT score of 27 or above to enter the program and maintain at least a 3.0 grade-point average to continue.

Well, yes. A score of 27 is roughly 90th percentile of HS grads and 95th percentile of the general population. They're mostly going to do fine wherever. Let me select out only students with a top-10% test score, hire a few halfway decent teachers, encourage the use of open-source/public-domain textbooks, jettison the whole grad school and research and grant-admins side, and self-select for students who want to live in basic old-fashioned dorms, you should be able to do it real damned cheap. Honestly, that would have sounded pretty appealing to me at 18.

Doesn't solve the whole problem where 35% of the population gets a 4-year degree, and there's endless hand-wringing that it should be more than 35%.
 
2012-11-26 10:31:50 AM

Deep Contact: So just put down 3.84, no one checks.


Yes, they do. And with more than a phone call for a lot of jobs. They want the official transcript.
 
2012-11-26 10:34:47 AM

ChipNASA: Valiente: Everything's bigger in Texas, particularly the hydroencephaly.

[i.imgur.com image 378x530]


Kid's got a lot on his mind.
 
2012-11-26 10:35:13 AM
If this leads to more Texans being educated, then that will lead to fewer Teahadists and Texas would become a swing state much sooner than expected.

I knew Perry was a RINO!
 
2012-11-26 10:35:32 AM

dryknife: Will Fencing still be offered?


No, fences are built by Mexicans
 
2012-11-26 10:36:28 AM
Woo hoo! Then I'm a farkin' pHD!!!

Oh, you said sheep SHEARERS. Nevermind.

There's a world wide shortage of sheep shearers. I could get gigs in Oz, NZ, Europe, Canada and the US but I'm too old and knackered and these days I can only get around 40 sheep sheared in a day. You really are past your prime by the time you're 35. Let the 20 somethings have at it.
 
2012-11-26 10:37:59 AM
This is only barely relevant, but whatever:

Most places, tuition stipends for grad students only cover that, tuition, not fees. But the student government, almost all undergrads, gets to vote new fees to cover whatever new amenities they think would be nice. And they love to feel important by doing something during their tenure. So they're always deciding to levy new fees. Tuition and fees all look the same to undergrads, and all come out of parents' pockets or go on the giant loan balance they're not worrying about yet. But it doesn't look the same to the grad students. And grad students don't give a damn about your fancy new dining hall, much less a stadium renovation. They only care about the games in that they make getting to work harder.
 
2012-11-26 10:39:24 AM
I thought all degrees were about shearing sheep.
 
2012-11-26 10:43:13 AM

Deep Contact: Rostin: ChipNASA: Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.
They also don't care if you spent $5,000 or $150,000 for your piece of parchment. THAT, my friends is YOUR problem.
LEARN THIS, KNOW THIS, LIVE THIS.
Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool

Almost every entry level job I've applied to has had a minimum GPA requirement. Back before I returned to school and I was on the other side of the interviewing table, I certainly cared, and my boss cared even more. The advice you are giving is dangerous and wrong, at least for engineering students.

So just put down 3.84, no one checks.


I've also been asked to provide copies of both my undergrad and grad transcripts to several companies. And this, btw, is for PhD level gigs, where you might expect my publication record and awards to far outweigh whether I got an A or a B in freshman calculus 14 years ago. It's true that I could create a set of forged transcripts, but I doubt that many people, even in this age of rampant cheating, would be that brazen.

As an aside, and further demonstration of how seriously some companies take this, I was told by someone in our uni's career center that if I have a 3.837 on my transcript, it is NOT acceptable to round up to 3.84. I'm sure most recruiters wouldn't care, but some apparently have complained about students reducing the precision of their reported GPA to inflate it that tiny extra amount.
 
2012-11-26 10:45:43 AM

Rostin: ChipNASA: Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.
They also don't care if you spent $5,000 or $150,000 for your piece of parchment. THAT, my friends is YOUR problem.
LEARN THIS, KNOW THIS, LIVE THIS.
Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool

Almost every entry level job I've applied to has had a minimum GPA requirement. Back before I returned to school and I was on the other side of the interviewing table, I certainly cared, and my boss cared even more. The advice you are giving is dangerous and wrong, at least for engineering students.


Where I am you wouldn't even get an interview. And yes they do check.
 
2012-11-26 10:48:43 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: "Nationally, 57 percent of students who earned bachelor's degrees in 2011 from public four-year colleges graduated with debt, and the average debt per borrower was $23,800-up from $20,100 a decade earlier"

Wow. I didn't realize that so few graduated with debt and that the average debt was that low.
Only a 15% increase from a decade earlier.

So what were the 0WS people whining about?


Depends where you go to school. In Pennsylvania, the cheap state schools are about $6k per year tuition + $9k room & board. There's a quick $60k for a degree, plus books, supplies, lab fees, etc. The big pubic, er, public school is Penn State. That's about $27k/yr tuition + r&b + books + fees. You don't get the max financial aid for these "cheap" schools, so you're looking a loans. Forget about working through school - the financial aid process subtracts what you earn from what they'd otherwise give you (I'm way oversimplifying that, but that's the net effect). I worked with a guy who did it, but it took him over 10 years. Students who graduate without debt are being funded by Mum & Dad. Ugly truth is that if you know how to play the game, you can end up going to a private school for less out-of-pocket that a public school.
 
2012-11-26 10:48:45 AM
Hi ho friends. Harry freakstorm of Freakstorm University where every degree is just ninety nine ninety five! Want a degree is Philosophy? How thoughtful. Ninety nine ninety five! How about Psychiatry? Why did you get in to psychiatry? Doesn't matter. It's just ninety nine ninety five! Got some money to burn? All our Liberal Arts degrees are just ninety nine ninety five!

How do we do it? No overhead! All our classes are out in the street. No boring professors either. I give you a list of books to read, you read 'em and I give you a good old Freakstorm University Diploma(*). With an FU diploma, you can go on to be rocket surgeons and brain scientists! The sky's the limit!

Call today because the phone company will be disconnecting this pay phone tomorrow! Remember! Every degree just ninety nine ninety five!

(*) Valid in Yugoslavia, the German Democratic Republic and Burma but not Myanmar
 
2012-11-26 10:49:03 AM

CujoQuarrel: vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool

GPA's matter. Trust me.


this is true (for those of you who don't know). I was a recruiter for one of the largest companies in the world about 8 years ago (as a side part of my main job).

The short is this... *Just* to get an interview with us, you had to have the following...

3.5 or higher if you didn't have a job while in college
3.0 or higher if you did have a job while in college (the job had to relate to your degree, you couldn't flip burgers and expect that to help much)

Those numbers changed based on the University... crappier Universities had a 3.8/3.25 requirement, but *no* University had lower than these numbers.

It makes sense if you think about it... a 3.0 means you do B work, but if you had to hold a full time job while you were going to school, it's like you were working an 80 hour week and still producing B work.
 
2012-11-26 10:50:25 AM

Deep Contact: Rostin: ChipNASA: Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.
They also don't care if you spent $5,000 or $150,000 for your piece of parchment. THAT, my friends is YOUR problem.
LEARN THIS, KNOW THIS, LIVE THIS.
Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool

Almost every entry level job I've applied to has had a minimum GPA requirement. Back before I returned to school and I was on the other side of the interviewing table, I certainly cared, and my boss cared even more. The advice you are giving is dangerous and wrong, at least for engineering students.

So just put down 3.84, no one checks.


Why would sell myself short?
 
2012-11-26 10:50:31 AM
The only people in Texas that I see excited about Perry's McDegree are Republicans, which tells you everything you need to know about how well the realities of this have been thought through.

"So you'd hire somebody with one of these, right?" is the question you need to be asking. The set of people who think this is a good idea and would hire somebody with a bachelor's degree*? Is mighty small.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see college costs controlled too, but Rick Perry is not going to help you do that.
 
2012-11-26 10:54:42 AM
In my business (aviation,) a college degree is preferred but not a requirement. Having a degree simply represents a level of personal accomplishment, organization and gives some idea on the candidate's mindset/personality. Industry required certifications are much more important.

To wit, I've interviewed plenty of douchebags with impressive educational credentials, but were absolute shiat where it mattered. I've also interviewed lots of people with varied backgrounds (enlisted military, trade school, entrepreneurial-types, etc...) that were exactly what we were looking for. It really does come down to the quality of the individual.

BUT, I realize what works for us probably does not work for major corporations, engineering groups and probably a large number of industries out there.
 
2012-11-26 11:00:08 AM

jesdynf: "So you'd hire somebody with one of these, right?" is the question you need to be asking. The set of people who think this is a good idea and would hire somebody with a bachelor's degree*? Is mighty small.


I expect the intake requirements will drop fast if this catches on. But, in general, hiring someone with a high incoming test score, ability to complete the degree, and a penchant for thriftiness? Could do worse. I know, the ACT requirement of 27 is nothing for the Fark Geniuses, but it's way above most NCAA atheletes and top-tier in your average middling college*

*nothing against Nebraska-Kearny, they were just the first school I could find with a posted ACT distribution
 
2012-11-26 11:00:58 AM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: tenpoundsofcheese: So what were the 0WS people whining about?

They didn't want to have to pay for school (read: anything at all, really) AT ALL.


Heaven forbid the richest country on the planet provides more than the minimum education to it's citizens. But hey gotta make sure private industry can whet it's beak on the backs of the youth, amirite or amirite?
 
2012-11-26 11:03:58 AM
University of Walmart?

I'd hate to see how stupid someone with a $10K college degree would be. Maybe a bachelor's degree will only require 16 semester hours.
 
2012-11-26 11:04:41 AM

iheartscotch: At least someone is trying to lower tuition. Not just raising it every year.

/ maybe that Rick Perry isn't quite the babby eating fruit cake that the media portrays him to be


Actually they had state school tuition locked down for decades and only recently allowed high increases. It was around 2005, after Perry had been governor for five years. Since then, annual increases in state tuition have been high. And yes, Perry is a babby eating fruit cake, also he has very little to do with the actual governing of the state.
 
2012-11-26 11:08:45 AM

jesdynf: The only people in Texas that I see excited about Perry's McDegree are Republicans, which tells you everything you need to know about how well the realities of this have been thought through.

"So you'd hire somebody with one of these, right?" is the question you need to be asking. The set of people who think this is a good idea and would hire somebody with a bachelor's degree*? Is mighty small.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see college costs controlled too, but Rick Perry is not going to help you do that.


Only kind-of related; but am I the only one who finds the lack of political diversity in higher education absolutely crazy?

I'm not even political. Like, I don't consider myself a republican or a democrat. I know hardly anything about of them.

But for years I've been indoctrinated about the value of 'DIVERSITY' in higher education. Seriously, it's non-stop talk about diversity. Diversity this, diversity that. And yet, the people actually running the show, continue to hire professors with same political values in alarming numbers. It's just hard for me to understand why, after all this crap about diversity, they manage to avoid it so extremely well.
 
2012-11-26 11:10:49 AM

JackieRabbit: University of Walmart?

I'd hate to see how stupid someone with a $10K college degree would be. Maybe a bachelor's degree will only require 16 semester hours.


Stupid? One has little to do with the other IMHO. I've met too many people with various college degrees who just weren't all that bright. Thats not an indictment of higher education, but I would hesitate to tar someone with a "McDegree" as stupid.
 
2012-11-26 11:14:49 AM
Limiting the price tag for a degree to $10,000 is no easy feat. In the 2012-13 academic year, the average annual cost of tuition in Texas at a public four-year institution was $8,354, just slightly lower than the national average of $8,655.

My tuition was about $4000 a year in 2002, before fees, books and other bullshiat that brought it closer to $6 or 7000. Why this is a priority now and not 8 years ago when the board of regents (many appointed by Perry) voted to deregulate tuition is beyond me.

//farking haircut
 
2012-11-26 11:21:51 AM

Fark_Guy_Rob: jesdynf: The only people in Texas that I see excited about Perry's McDegree are Republicans, which tells you everything you need to know about how well the realities of this have been thought through.

"So you'd hire somebody with one of these, right?" is the question you need to be asking. The set of people who think this is a good idea and would hire somebody with a bachelor's degree*? Is mighty small.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see college costs controlled too, but Rick Perry is not going to help you do that.

Only kind-of related; but am I the only one who finds the lack of political diversity in higher education absolutely crazy?

I'm not even political. Like, I don't consider myself a republican or a democrat. I know hardly anything about of them.

But for years I've been indoctrinated about the value of 'DIVERSITY' in higher education. Seriously, it's non-stop talk about diversity. Diversity this, diversity that. And yet, the people actually running the show, continue to hire professors with same political values in alarming numbers. It's just hard for me to understand why, after all this crap about diversity, they manage to avoid it so extremely well.


You might find this article very interesting.

And FWIW, I agree with you. Our selection of "diversity" as the one true virtue that deserves the official backing of our university administrations is bizarre to me. At the one I currently attend, we have a vice president dedicated to the promotion of diversity. That person has a staff (several assistant and associate VPs) to oversee various diversity programs. If I were given carte blanche to lower the costs of education, this is one of the first things I'd ax.
 
2012-11-26 11:22:06 AM
I'm in grad school, and the biggest difference between the Americans and the internationals isn't that they're better in everything; They're just better at their area of study.

in the US, we've dumped the idea of High school being a 'terminal degree'. The Idea of someone with a high school education making good is unheard of. We don't teach life skills, basic auto repair, welding, or other work skills. We are not interested in students being complete adults when they leave high school. We Rush them past all the useful stuff (afeared they might cotton to it and dig in to a simpler, less profitable way of life with the pretty hot thing they're dating) and cry out that they need to go to college. So every year is a primer for something that never shows up. No wonder kids develop a pump-and-dump strategy for exams run by teachers always trying to drag along the uninterested to the boredom of the engaged.

in England, China, India and lots of other countries, they permit students to focus more narrowly in the high schools. This means that students , at grade 9, dump the subject they are worst at, and 'double down' on subjects they enjoy more, or are better at. High school graduates are fully capable workers, who have developed skills our undergrads don't get until they're in their senior year (having had to pass another whole round of "core" classes in the meantime).

Want to study Literature? You might have to take an applied math course household accounting, budgeting, borrowing and balancing a checkbook) but not the skull-crushing, embarrassing, humiliation of Calculus.

Want to do STEM (applied) ? Awesome. You Take Metallurgy as a Chem/Physics blend with welding class and sculpting.

Want to do STEM (theoretical) ? Great! you work in electronics, etching, and take 3 semesters of Calculus and Differential equations before you graduate. Your literature will revolve around logical paradoxes, work problems, reading Euclid and writing proofs.

How about The humanities ? Social sciences, history, languages will be your focus. You'll take social versions of biology and physics, economics and another language (everyone really should take one starting in grade 5 or 6)

I'm not slagging liberal arts ed. I'm just saying that if you are going to claim that we need more STEM students, then put them where we can get to them. Don't bury students until all they can see is the profit motive, and give some respect to smart people who aren't politicians, business owners, CEOs, hedge fund managers, traders or other exploiters of the proletariat.
 
2012-11-26 11:24:47 AM
Rostin


Deep Contact: Rostin: ChipNASA: Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.
They also don't care if you spent $5,000 or $150,000 for your piece of parchment. THAT, my friends is YOUR problem.
LEARN THIS, KNOW THIS, LIVE THIS.
Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool

Almost every entry level job I've applied to has had a minimum GPA requirement. Back before I returned to school and I was on the other side of the interviewing table, I certainly cared, and my boss cared even more. The advice you are giving is dangerous and wrong, at least for engineering students.

So just put down 3.84, no one checks.

I've also been asked to provide copies of both my undergrad and grad transcripts to several companies. And this, btw, is for PhD level gigs, where you might expect my publication record and awards to far outweigh whether I got an A or a B in freshman calculus 14 years ago. It's true that I could create a set of forged transcripts, but I doubt that many people, even in this age of rampant cheating, would be that brazen.

As an aside, and further demonstration of how seriously some companies take this, I was told by someone in our uni's career center that if I have a 3.837 on my transcript, it is NOT acceptable to round up to 3.84. I'm sure most recruiters wouldn't care, but some apparently have complained about students reducing the precision of their reported GPA to inflate it that tiny extra amount.


Rostin, settle down. What he is talking about are the students who get BAs in Gen Business or some such degree who are then going to work as a management trainee at some large dept store or sales training for some oilfield supply company.

Not some top flight Architecture or Engineering firm but maybe some guy on his own looking to hire someone cheap to do his CAD work.
 
2012-11-26 11:28:08 AM
By setting a price and then making everything fit into that "box", that gives administrations cart blanche to gut programs, decline to hire qualified professors, rely on adjuncts that do not have the financial wherewithal to advance their skills, skimp on security, maintenance and upgrades to equipment and technology.

Currently I'm teaching with poorly maintained equipment that is well over ten years old in an area that is moving forward at an astounding rate. I've moved away from teaching specifics and into generalities just so that my students can catch up to current day on their own when necessary.

I fully agree that changes to this hidebound industry (higher education) must be made and I think that this is a fine idea and a great start but it needs more in the way of refinement.

I have taught in a for-profit college, a state university, a private university and a community college.
I know what of I speak.
 
2012-11-26 11:28:28 AM

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: Stupid? One has little to do with the other IMHO. I've met too many people with various college degrees who just weren't all that bright. Thats not an indictment of higher education, but I would hesitate to tar someone with a "McDegree" as stupid.


Absolutely true. But -- will a McDegree get you hired? Will it help you compete? Inasmuch as a degree influences hiring decisions, will a McDegree aid you?

If it will, then that's splendid and Rick Perry knows what's he's talking about.

Yeah, roll that sentence around in your mouth.
 
2012-11-26 11:29:43 AM
milsorgen

Heaven forbid the richest country on the planet provides more than the minimum education to it's citizens. But hey gotta make sure private industry can whet it's beak on the backs of the youth, amirite or amirite?

I always love that line.
 
2012-11-26 11:29:57 AM
All this talk of GPA makes me glad I started a business right out of college. No client or partner gives a shiat about that and I haven't written a resume in a decade. Demonstrable skillset and personal work ethic ftw
 
2012-11-26 11:32:10 AM
I currently have around 15 employees.

These are IT Consultants who work on large (Fortune 500) company's software implementations, etc.

I don't give a fark if they finished college. About half of them did not, but they DO have the ability to think through problems. Overall the employees as a whole are well above average and there's no distinction between the ones with degrees vs. the ones without.

It's probably been over 5 years since any of our customers stated a consultant had to have a college degree as well.
 
2012-11-26 11:32:25 AM
Marcintosh


By setting a price and then making everything fit into that "box", that gives administrations cart blanche to gut programs, decline to hire qualified professors, rely on adjuncts that do not have the financial wherewithal to advance their skills, skimp on security, maintenance and upgrades to equipment and technology.

Currently I'm teaching with poorly maintained equipment that is well over ten years old in an area that is moving forward at an astounding rate. I've moved away from teaching specifics and into generalities just so that my students can catch up to current day on their own when necessary.

I fully agree that changes to this hidebound industry (higher education) must be made and I think that this is a fine idea and a great start but it needs more in the way of refinement.

I have taught in a for-profit college, a state university, a private university and a community college.
I know what of I speak.


Hmmm, not so sure. Sounds like you can't hold a job.
 
2012-11-26 11:38:03 AM

Buffalo77: As an aside, and further demonstration of how seriously some companies take this, I was told by someone in our uni's career center that if I have a 3.837 on my transcript, it is NOT acceptable to round up to 3.84. I'm sure most recruiters wouldn't care, but some apparently have complained about students reducing the precision of their reported GPA to inflate it that tiny extra amount.

Rostin, settle down. What he is talking about are the students who get BAs in Gen Business or some such degree who are then going to work as a management trainee at some large dept store or sales training for some oilfield supply company.

Not some top flight Architecture or Engineering firm but maybe some guy on his own looking to hire someone cheap to do his CAD work.


JUST for clarification ....somewhat THIS.....

When I graduated in 1992 I had quite a few years (5?) job experience under my belt and then I also had 10 years in the military. They wanted to see a RESUME, they did not give a rats ass about my GPS or what I did in school.
Buffalo77 is mostly right (good guess) I was a Business Major and my last interview lasted 15 minutes as the guy who hired me already knew many folks I had already worked with and for, (unbeknownst to me) as he was retired military in a similar career field.

I AGREE that entry level just coming out of school, you'd better have your crap together and yes, GPA and all that can be important if this is your first job, but job experience and a solid resume trumps all that crap EVERYDAY and eventually no one cares much about the numbers.

/ Yes i work with engineers and rocket scientists and all that and yes it probably applies for them.
 
2012-11-26 11:40:28 AM

Buffalo77: Not some top flight Architecture or Engineering firm but maybe some guy on his own looking to hire someone cheap to do his CAD work.


I've only been asked one time what my GPA was. I said, "2.1" Hiring guy say "Good, I was wondering if you were going to lie to me, there is no way you could have this much work experience and have a good GPA in something as hard as Eng Physics." Most other engineering places I've worked, if they want a new fresh from school engineer the just hire you and let you sink or swim in the first 6 months. Of course that was 10 years ago, things may have changed now.
 
2012-11-26 11:40:57 AM
I think this is a step in the right direction but I don't think it will work. In order to get this degree you have to start taking college classes in a public highschool. The education system here is so bad the first kid who tries this will find themselves completely unprepared. Studies have shown that 1/3 of kids graduating from a dallas county highschool read at a 5th grade lvl. Plus it does nothing to help anyone who has already graduated highschool.
 
2012-11-26 11:51:15 AM

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: JackieRabbit: University of Walmart?

I'd hate to see how stupid someone with a $10K college degree would be. Maybe a bachelor's degree will only require 16 semester hours.

Stupid? One has little to do with the other IMHO. I've met too many people with various college degrees who just weren't all that bright. That;s not an indictment of higher education, but I would hesitate to tar someone with a "McDegree" as stupid.


I'm not sure that college cost is the appropriate variable. Raw intelligence, exposure to knowledge, demonstrated above average knowledge, critical thinking, emotional and social IQ, and social networks would all be better indicators.

Now is a great time to be considering just what education should be and how it fits into our society. The institution of college holds plenty of remnants from the days when it was a place to warehouse the young adults of the wealthy that may no longer be useful to us.

What knowledge and skills should be taught? Do we need to teach Latin, Literature, Physics? If there is some core of non-economically useful curriculum what should it be? I might argue that it should include plenty of life skills classes (parenting, financial skills, plumbing, carpentry) as well as the usual Literature, Theatre, Art, and Sciences for non-science majors.

Is college only useful for a trade? Should we just teach courses that are useful in whatever economic endeavor will support us to old age? Are we only cogs in a machine? In that case, why waste time on non-major classes.

With expanding technology, why should a degree only be available from a single institution? Can I put together an agreed upon curriculum from a variety of sources including multiple colleges to gain the required knowledge? How would I prove I had that knowledge if gained in a non-traditional college.

Using history as an example, why would we need a thousand history profs when we can view the best lectures from the best history prof? Why should the best history prof be restricted to just teaching at one school and relying on income from that school? Could I get a history degree by taking on-line courses from the best profs and taking some sort of secured tests? How would we judge writing assignments?

How do we measure outcomes so we know that the marginal cost of University X vs. University Y is worth it? Can we determine a basic, core curriculum that every student in every university should have?

Looking way back at my college days, what should we do with aimless idiot youth while they are learning and maturing?

Like health care, this is a fascinating topic and I'm not seeing the kind of thoughtful discussion that we need to be having.

A $10K, or even cheaper degree might be a great idea. And economic forces can sometimes be helpful in forcing innovation and change.
 
2012-11-26 11:54:11 AM

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: JackieRabbit: University of Walmart?

I'd hate to see how stupid someone with a $10K college degree would be. Maybe a bachelor's degree will only require 16 semester hours.

Stupid? One has little to do with the other IMHO. I've met too many people with various college degrees who just weren't all that bright. Thats not an indictment of higher education, but I would hesitate to tar someone with a "McDegree" as stupid.


Maybe stupid isn't the correct word. Uneducated would be better. Because you are correct. I know many, many people who are smart, but uneducated. My basic point is that it is not possible to properly educate someone on a mere $10K. Hell, high school costs more than this.
 
2012-11-26 11:56:02 AM
How to earn a Rick Perry BS in evolutionary biology: reject evolution as Satan's mischief and embrace the Book of Genesis as the only scientific reality anyone needs to know, donate $10K to the Republican Party.

How to earn a Rick Perry BS in history: donate $10K to the Republican Party, and attend any of David Barton's* weekend Christian Revisionist History seminars to study how Thomas Jefferson was actually an evangelical Christian, and how the founders intended the U.S. to be ruled by "Biblical law," excluding non-Christians from public office.

/ * endorsed by other eminent historians, like Mike Huckabee: "I almost wish that there would be something like a simultaneous telecast and all Americans would be forced, forced - at gunpoint, no less - to listen to every David Barton message. And I think our country would be better for it."
 
2012-11-26 12:37:48 PM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: Deep Contact: So just put down 3.84, no one checks.

Yes, they do. And with more than a phone call for a lot of jobs. They want the official transcript.


Then get good grades, problem solved.

/GPA affects your first job. After that, it's all about performance.
//worked my way from a philosophy degree to a current fantastic job at an awesome IT company
///bootsrappy
 
2012-11-26 12:44:40 PM

ChipNASA: I also had 10 years in the military.


The military work will trump just about anything. At least, with my agency. If a veteran had applied for the same position I had, I wouldn't've had a chance, regardless if I was already working in another state as the same position.

Your GPA does matter, and *real* transcripts are required by jobs, particularly ones that pay well. For construction or maintenance or something, no. But for higher jobs that rely heavily on your classroom work, yes.

You're still wrong. At least, in regards to a lot of companies/agencies that hire, particularly public sector. Not all, though. So maybe in some parts, you are right. Just still not good advice that you give. :)
 
2012-11-26 01:58:35 PM

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: JackieRabbit: University of Walmart?

I'd hate to see how stupid someone with a $10K college degree would be. Maybe a bachelor's degree will only require 16 semester hours.

Stupid? One has little to do with the other IMHO. I've met too many people with various college degrees who just weren't all that bright. Thats not an indictment of higher education, but I would hesitate to tar someone with a "McDegree" as stupid.


THIS. There are a lot of educated but dumb people. Book smart and clueless otherwise. Yes you learned screw A goes in to hole B but you insist on using a Phillips head screwdriver on a slotted head screw.
 
2012-11-26 02:05:19 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: "Nationally, 57 percent of students who earned bachelor's degrees in 2011 from public four-year colleges graduated with debt, and the average debt per borrower was $23,800-up from $20,100 a decade earlier"

Wow. I didn't realize that so few graduated with debt and that the average debt was that low.
Only a 15% increase from a decade earlier.

So what were the 0WS people whining about?


My debt is over an order of magnitude larger. Ivy league + Medical school + residency salary will do that to you. It's quite unpleasant to think about.
 
2012-11-26 02:09:51 PM

Liese: ChipNASA: I also had 10 years in the military.

The military work will trump just about anything. At least, with my agency. If a veteran had applied for the same position I had, I wouldn't've had a chance, regardless if I was already working in another state as the same position.

Your GPA does matter, and *real* transcripts are required by jobs, particularly ones that pay well. For construction or maintenance or something, no. But for higher jobs that rely heavily on your classroom work, yes.

You're still wrong. At least, in regards to a lot of companies/agencies that hire, particularly public sector. Not all, though. So maybe in some parts, you are right. Just still not good advice that you give. :)


I wll certainly take a Mea Culpa as many of you have pointed out from YOUR experience that HR folks DO care (probably according to the career field) what you did in college and what your GPA and all was.

Of course this is FARK.COM so any generalization is equally dismissed with facts or other equally as relevant experience to someone else's basis of thought...
 
2012-11-26 02:11:00 PM

ChipNASA: Liese: ChipNASA: I also had 10 years in the military.

The military work will trump just about anything. At least, with my agency. If a veteran had applied for the same position I had, I wouldn't've had a chance, regardless if I was already working in another state as the same position.

Your GPA does matter, and *real* transcripts are required by jobs, particularly ones that pay well. For construction or maintenance or something, no. But for higher jobs that rely heavily on your classroom work, yes.

You're still wrong. At least, in regards to a lot of companies/agencies that hire, particularly public sector. Not all, though. So maybe in some parts, you are right. Just still not good advice that you give. :)

I wll certainly take a Mea Culpa as many of you have pointed out from YOUR experience that HR folks DO care (probably according to the career field) what you did in college and what your GPA and all was.

Of course this is FARK.COM so any generalization is equally dismissed with facts or other equally as relevant experience to someone else's basis of thought...


filmcrithulk.files.wordpress.com
/damn preview and add buttons
 
2012-11-26 02:20:56 PM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: Deep Contact: So just put down 3.84, no one checks.

Yes, they do. And with more than a phone call for a lot of jobs. They want the official transcript.


The official transcript, that's funny.
Link
 
2012-11-26 02:27:51 PM
I guess Perry won that bet with Romney
 
2012-11-26 02:54:57 PM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: tenpoundsofcheese: So what were the 0WS people whining about?

They didn't want to have to pay for school (read: anything at all, really) AT ALL.


I think you guys got lost on your way to the Politics tab.
 
2012-11-26 03:00:11 PM

Doom MD: tenpoundsofcheese: FTA: "Nationally, 57 percent of students who earned bachelor's degrees in 2011 from public four-year colleges graduated with debt, and the average debt per borrower was $23,800-up from $20,100 a decade earlier"

Wow. I didn't realize that so few graduated with debt and that the average debt was that low.
Only a 15% increase from a decade earlier.

So what were the 0WS people whining about?

My debt is over an order of magnitude larger. Ivy league + Medical school + residency salary will do that to you. It's quite unpleasant to think about.


yah..ur life sounds rotten
 
2012-11-26 03:22:28 PM
This is what happens when we let an aggy become governor.
 
2012-11-26 09:17:46 PM

CujoQuarrel: ChipNASA: Employers for the most part don't give a flying FARK what your GPA was, What Frat or Sorority you were in, what clubs you were in, DO YOU HAVE A PIECE OF PAPER??
Good, check, move on.
They also don't care if you spent $5,000 or $150,000 for your piece of parchment. THAT, my friends is YOUR problem.
LEARN THIS, KNOW THIS, LIVE THIS.
Unless you're from Duke, Hah-vard- or Yale or some such. They you're %1 and all of this is irreverent cause Daddy will pay for skool

GPA's matter. Trust me.


So does where you got your degree. Directional State University Auxiliary Campus isn't going to get hired if there is another option available.
 
2012-11-26 09:49:22 PM
Remember kids, Socialism is okay when Republicans do it.
 
2012-11-27 08:49:40 AM

iheartscotch: At least someone is trying to lower tuition. Not just raising it every year.

/ maybe that Rick Perry isn't quite the babby eating fruit cake that the media portrays him to be


I have been pleased to heat about some of Perry's ideas. He does seem to not quite be the villain I thought he was.
 
2012-11-27 09:31:35 AM

Buffalo77: Marcintosh


By setting a price and then making everything fit into that "box", that gives administrations cart blanche to gut programs, decline to hire qualified professors, rely on adjuncts that do not have the financial wherewithal to advance their skills, skimp on security, maintenance and upgrades to equipment and technology.

Currently I'm teaching with poorly maintained equipment that is well over ten years old in an area that is moving forward at an astounding rate. I've moved away from teaching specifics and into generalities just so that my students can catch up to current day on their own when necessary.

I fully agree that changes to this hidebound industry (higher education) must be made and I think that this is a fine idea and a great start but it needs more in the way of refinement.

I have taught in a for-profit college, a state university, a private university and a community college.
I know what of I speak.

Hmmm, not so sure. Sounds like you can't hold a job.


Ah, so you belong to that class of American that was born there, grew up there, worked there and plans on dying there. Good, glad to see you're still around and living your limited world view. Happy holidays
 
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