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(BusinessWeek)   Ladies and gentlemen, please observe Exhibit A in what happens when your lobby goes all-in against a Presidential candidate and loses   (businessweek.com) divider line 41
    More: Amusing, obama, United States public debt, Dow Chemical, Mulally, Business Roundtable, Honeywell International, Tom Donohue, Nike Inc.  
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10840 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Nov 2012 at 9:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-11-26 09:31:44 AM  
5 votes:
Dad was a lobbyist for over 20 years and he said there were a couple rules he considered critical to the job:

1. watch your back.
2. keep your name outta the papers. you end up being visible to the public, then you failed as a lobbyist.
3. be as neutral as possible.
4. trust no one, not even yourself.

he also said you should be as honest as you could manage, and never get caught in a lie. you get caught double dealing or in a lie, people remember that and it'll come back to get you later. Anywho, looks like the US Chamber forgot rule #3 and is now paying the price for the arrogance. can't say I feel sorry for 'em since they really did go all in against Obama and were pretty obvious about it. you risk everything in a wild bet like that then you can't be really surprised when it doesn't work out and you end up falling flat.
2012-11-26 09:30:20 AM  
5 votes:
"The president spent four years criticizing the business community," West said.

If you repeat republican talkingpoints/propaganda like they are actually true you should be fired from your job. It shows that you don't have a firm grasp on reality and someone that out of touch is a danger when making decisions.
2012-11-26 01:01:52 PM  
4 votes:
img713.imageshack.us
2012-11-26 09:41:19 AM  
4 votes:
They should rename it The US Echo Chamber of Republican Talking Points
2012-11-26 09:26:49 AM  
4 votes:
He didn't criticize business, he criticized your lobby. Why in the world woudl he work with you after that, when you still are massively against him?
2012-11-26 10:20:33 AM  
3 votes:
While the chamber promotes its own plan for reducing the U.S. budget deficit, including increased domestic energy production and building the Keystone XL pipeline,

Is there something I don't know about the Keystone XL, which allows canadian oil to pipe down to the gulf of mexico for shipping OUT of the US and around the globe, such that it would be a significant solution to our deficit?

Good for refineries I suppose, but likely will result in our own domestic oil prices going up if I understand correctly.


If I am correct, shouldn't every half-decent attempt at journalism be pointing that out instead of giving the talking point a pass? This isn't global-warming level science, this isn't the mysteries of a million-variable macro-economic prediction. This is one item with what should be a predictable outcome.


Domestic energy production through fracking I can see being something a business association should love. At least fracking results in a very direct reduction in energy costs relative to other countries and thus stems outsourcing if not potentially bringing some manufacturing back and creating a minor boom. But keystone? I'm not even against it so much as I am against all the bullshiat rhetoric. Build it or don't, that's fine, but let's not pretend its a solution to a problem.
2012-11-26 09:57:36 AM  
3 votes:
When an association is a business group banding together it's just doing what is good for their members and lovers of capitalism. When an association is workers banding together for the good of the group, OMG!!! COMMIE PINKO UNIONS!
2012-11-26 09:51:34 AM  
3 votes:

randomjsa: And from the "If this were a Republican..." file.

It would be called asinine to exclude "important" groups in the discussion.


I think Obama has this one right - you have to acknowledge Republican beliefs, but you don't have to respect them. I accept that the GOP believes Obama is the anti-christ, but I don't respect their belief because it's f*cking stupid.
2012-11-26 01:04:38 PM  
2 votes:
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is the Susan G. Komen of business organizations, and the sooner small business owners learn this the better.
2012-11-26 10:47:06 AM  
2 votes:
The US Chamber of Commerce puts a huge JOBS banner up is rich.
If the USCoC want more jobs then shouldn't they be putting pressure on their membership?
2012-11-26 10:42:17 AM  
2 votes:
Got to love it when Conservative dumbasses piss Fifty Million USD down a farking rat hole. I mean, bwahahahahahahahaha.

shiat, guys. Maybe it would have been cheaper to STFU and pay your taxes? You know, just like you're actually supposed to do.
2012-11-26 10:38:20 AM  
2 votes:

coeyagi: I honestly don't know what else they can do but be obstructionists. They are so used to it and we are so used to it now that it seems like the only play in the GOP playbook. No one on their side is showing any hint (other than Chambliss, and he'll be put back in line in a back door meeting) of relenting on the derp or backing down from obstructing sensible legilsation.

The talking point now is they didn't have a conservative enough candidate, so we have to wait until 2016 to see if they field a fundie derper like Santorum or back down and go safe with someone like Christie. The GOP, and the country, needs them to lose in 2014 and lose in 2016 with a fundie to prove that they need moderation and non-obstructionism. If they lose 3 elections in a row with different strategies, the only thing they have to fall back on is the one thing they haven't done yet - be non-assholes.


I don't know that i've got any answers for you. the GOP seems to be still mostly in shock about their losses. I see fear, anger and denial from the Republicans but nothing coherent in terms of policy positions. falling back on their core mantra (tax cuts for the rich, god is on our side etc etc) is a temporary fall back position at best and it won't last. I think the GOP inner circle is flat out amazed they were so wrong about Romney. ALL their spreadsheets and computer projections PROVED that Romney was the winner. he had already won...so they planned on that happening and didn't even consider what to do if/when they lost. I really do get the feeling the Republicans have no idea what to do right now.
2012-11-26 10:30:30 AM  
2 votes:
US corporations have struggled mighty during the Obama years...

research.stlouisfed.org
2012-11-26 10:25:48 AM  
2 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese:

They understand business far more than 0bama does.

Besides, it isn't about offering things to 0bama. It is about solutions for the country. I think the sooner people like you realize that, the better off the country is.


But the US Chamber isn't in it for 'the country', they're in it for their elite membership...and that membership has a VERY strong bias against Obama. the Chamber made it VERY clear that they do not like Obama, and that they were going to work against him at every opportunity. they even put their money down against Obama and made sure everyone knew that they were NOT backing Obama in any manner.

why should Obama reach out to them? what could the Chamber POSSIBLY offer Obama to make it worth his time to speak with them?
2012-11-26 10:07:50 AM  
2 votes:

coeyagi: There is a 0.00000003% chance that he'll respond to you and is even still watching this thread after dropping a steaming pile of derp on it. You're not playing the odds right, friend.


The trolling quality really diminished after the Republicans got their asses handed to them. Maybe there's just no money left to pay the shills right now?
2012-11-26 09:54:18 AM  
2 votes:
"The president spent four years criticizing the business community," West said.


Oh, if only that were true. Republicans are cravenly pro-business and Democrats are guiltily pro-business. Were they not bought off or ideologically blinkered, they'd be pro-market which is markedly distinct from the crony capitalism we now practice.
2012-11-26 09:40:29 AM  
2 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Weaver95:
3. be as neutral as possible.

Wouldn't that make you a really shiatty lobbyist? One would kinda hope you'd be unequivocally in favor of, y'know, whatever you're lobbying for.

//Maybe he meant nonpartisan? Lobbyists do tend to prefer buying folks on both sides of the aisle when they can. Not sure where the CoC lost track of that one.


no, Dad meant you had to be neutral. non-partisan has a specific meaning among Republicans (i.e. STFU and do what we want) and made Democrats kinda skittish. he was a VERY big fan of being able to work both sides of the aisle and speak with Republicans AND Democrats in order to reach a consensus.
2012-11-26 09:34:49 AM  
2 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: It is also Exhibit B about how the President can not work with people who have a different view than he has.


Awwww. That's so cute. You think you have a grown-up opinion!
2012-11-27 08:35:43 AM  
1 votes:
Dear US Chamber of Commerce,

The good citizens of out great nation do not agree with your views and agenda. Further, many of us resent your efforts to influence our electoral process with gratuitous amounts of money from anonymous donors.

Please DIAF.

Hug & Kisses,

The American People
2012-11-26 05:15:04 PM  
1 votes:

Parthenogenetic: McConnell: We need to be honest with the public. This election is about them, not us. And we need to treat this election as the first step in retaking the government. We need to say to everyone on Election Day, "Those of you who helped make this a good day, you need to go out and help us finish the job."

NJ: What's the job?

McConnell: The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.


For this, I would not piss on McConnell if he was on fire.
2012-11-26 01:11:10 PM  
1 votes:
The USCoC(k) needs to STFU with their propaganda and just create those damn jobs. Those bootstrappy folks already told us that government doesn't create them, and we know from plenty of experience that corporate welfare doesn't create them either.
2012-11-26 11:10:51 AM  
1 votes:

SineSwiper: The USCoC used to be pretty neutral and, while they might have been naturally right-leaning (being pro-business), they were like pre-Murdock WSJ. Hell, with a name like that, many people thought that it was an official branch of the government. That changed since at least the ACA debate and all of the pro-GOP commercials. Now, most people that matter know that they are simply an arm of the GOP.

It's a shame that the NRA doubled down on the derp with their endorsement, too. Especially considering that it was compatible to be members of both the ACLU and NRA. There's plenty of pro-gun Democrats that they alienated with that decision.


The NRA has been taken over by the likes of Bob Barr, Grover Norquist, and Ted Nugent. What in God's name is Grover Norquist doing on the NRA board? The NRA needs to stick to their guns, so to speak.
2012-11-26 11:05:41 AM  
1 votes:
The US Chamber of Commerce showed it was fiscally irresponsible by investing in fiscally irresponsible Republicans who lost to Obama. Why should Obama invite them to a discussion on fiscal responsibility?
2012-11-26 10:56:36 AM  
1 votes:
Aww, a useless supply-side "think tank" is getting cut out merely because they are nothing more than shouty right-wing shills and their "ideas" have no merit.

A-boo.

A-boo hoo.

A-boo hoo hoo.
2012-11-26 10:50:59 AM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: Dad was a lobbyist for over 20 years and he said there were a couple rules he considered critical to the job:

1. watch your back.
2. keep your name outta the papers. you end up being visible to the public, then you failed as a lobbyist.
3. be as neutral as possible.
4. trust no one, not even yourself.

he also said you should be as honest as you could manage, and never get caught in a lie. you get caught double dealing or in a lie, people remember that and it'll come back to get you later. Anywho, looks like the US Chamber forgot rule #3 and is now paying the price for the arrogance. can't say I feel sorry for 'em since they really did go all in against Obama and were pretty obvious about it. you risk everything in a wild bet like that then you can't be really surprised when it doesn't work out and you end up falling flat.


Keep in mind, the US Chamber isn't a real business association. It's a Koch brother's mouthpiece.
2012-11-26 10:44:30 AM  
1 votes:
And nothing of value was offered or lost.
2012-11-26 10:42:54 AM  
1 votes:

Muta: I just looked at the US Constitution and I see no mention of the Chamber of Commerce as being a branch of the government. Why would they expect a 'seat at the table' when drafting the legislation?


i'm still trying to figure out how someone could possibly get the idea that the US Chamber of Commerce was AT ALL interested in the 'good of the nation'. they're a lobbyist organization, paid to represent the specific interests of their membership. they don't care about 'the nation', they care about what they're paid to care about...nothing more, nothing less.
2012-11-26 10:40:09 AM  
1 votes:
I just looked at the US Constitution and I see no mention of the Chamber of Commerce as being a branch of the government. Why would they expect a 'seat at the table' when drafting the legislation?
2012-11-26 10:39:21 AM  
1 votes:

qorkfiend: I've heard that the new crop of Republicans who are putting tax hikes on the table are asking for cuts to Social Security and Medicare in return.


I'd rather see a retooling of Medicare, such as a rewriting of Part D so that it isn't such a gift to the pharmaceutical industry.
2012-11-26 10:33:50 AM  
1 votes:
The same Chamber of Commerce that tried to tell us "Outsourcing internationally is Patriotic". Oh yeah, that one. Back to the kids table you go.
2012-11-26 10:27:29 AM  
1 votes:

Smackledorfer: Is there something I don't know about the Keystone XL, which allows canadian oil to pipe down to the gulf of mexico for shipping OUT of the US and around the globe, such that it would be a significant solution to our deficit?


Not really. Where you're getting confused is in thinking that the USCOC gives a shiat about American business or workers. They exist solely as the lobbying arm for a couple of large multinationals. Oh, and Keystone is supposed to create 11 million jobs or some such bullshiat.
2012-11-26 10:25:16 AM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: miscreant: coeyagi: There is a 0.00000003% chance that he'll respond to you and is even still watching this thread after dropping a steaming pile of derp on it. You're not playing the odds right, friend.

The trolling quality really diminished after the Republicans got their asses handed to them. Maybe there's just no money left to pay the shills right now?

well, I think the GOP got rocked back on it's pins pretty badly by Romney's loss. look, all the GOP data said Romney was gonna win in a landslide. the rank and file really believed that Obama was done. the election was merely a formality. they already planned the victory celebration. But then Romney lost, and not only lost but Obama won in a landslide. the GOP couldn't even pretend to claim that Obama doesn't have a mandate. then a whole bunch of issues turned against the GOP ideology (more states legalized pot and gay marriage) and several key races ended in Democratic victories. Allen West even lost to a moderate Democrat.

so I think a lot of our local shills are stumbling around in shock and trying to wrap their heads around their losses. Any way you choose to look at this, the Republicans lost big. the ONLY thing that's good for the GOP is that they retained their majority in the House, but even there they lost ground. so they're trying to come to terms with a firm rejection by the electorate. I suspect that's what most of our GOP types here are doing - trying to figure out what it all means, how they lost and what they can do to get back in the game. they've retreated to stormfront.org, Freeperville and other 'safe' sites to lick their wounds and decide what to do next. once they figure out a new set of talking points they'll be back. first they'll send out scouts, then they'll send out organized patrols.


I honestly don't know what else they can do but be obstructionists. They are so used to it and we are so used to it now that it seems like the only play in the GOP playbook. No one on their side is showing any hint (other than Chambliss, and he'll be put back in line in a back door meeting) of relenting on the derp or backing down from obstructing sensible legilsation.

The talking point now is they didn't have a conservative enough candidate, so we have to wait until 2016 to see if they field a fundie derper like Santorum or back down and go safe with someone like Christie. The GOP, and the country, needs them to lose in 2014 and lose in 2016 with a fundie to prove that they need moderation and non-obstructionism. If they lose 3 elections in a row with different strategies, the only thing they have to fall back on is the one thing they haven't done yet - be non-assholes.
2012-11-26 10:19:00 AM  
1 votes:

miscreant: coeyagi: There is a 0.00000003% chance that he'll respond to you and is even still watching this thread after dropping a steaming pile of derp on it. You're not playing the odds right, friend.

The trolling quality really diminished after the Republicans got their asses handed to them. Maybe there's just no money left to pay the shills right now?


well, I think the GOP got rocked back on it's pins pretty badly by Romney's loss. look, all the GOP data said Romney was gonna win in a landslide. the rank and file really believed that Obama was done. the election was merely a formality. they already planned the victory celebration. But then Romney lost, and not only lost but Obama won in a landslide. the GOP couldn't even pretend to claim that Obama doesn't have a mandate. then a whole bunch of issues turned against the GOP ideology (more states legalized pot and gay marriage) and several key races ended in Democratic victories. Allen West even lost to a moderate Democrat.

so I think a lot of our local shills are stumbling around in shock and trying to wrap their heads around their losses. Any way you choose to look at this, the Republicans lost big. the ONLY thing that's good for the GOP is that they retained their majority in the House, but even there they lost ground. so they're trying to come to terms with a firm rejection by the electorate. I suspect that's what most of our GOP types here are doing - trying to figure out what it all means, how they lost and what they can do to get back in the game. they've retreated to stormfront.org, Freeperville and other 'safe' sites to lick their wounds and decide what to do next. once they figure out a new set of talking points they'll be back. first they'll send out scouts, then they'll send out organized patrols.
2012-11-26 09:55:33 AM  
1 votes:
The Chamber of Commerce can go f*ck themselves.
2012-11-26 09:54:43 AM  
1 votes:
"We have absolute access to what happens in the Congress," Donohue said.

And that's one of the problems, asshole.
2012-11-26 09:46:41 AM  
1 votes:

coeyagi: Headso: "The president spent four years criticizing the business community," West said.

If you repeat republican talkingpoints/propaganda like they are actually true you should be fired from your job. It shows that you don't have a firm grasp on reality and someone that out of touch is a danger when making decisions.

Why? It's not like the guy is a non-partisan think tanker. He's a lobbyist. He wants businesses to send him money rather than spend money on healthcare on their employees. If the business owner is too stupid to realize this, then he's f*cked (as well as the rest of us).

"Obummer Fartbonghit is gonna rape yo jobs!" -USCC

"Take my money! I don't want to be raped!" -Business Owner


The exact reason why is playing out in this story. These people operated like WND and Merkin Stinker are real and now they are shut out of the deal making process, the companies they represent now don't have the access they tried to purchase. If they operated using the real news and polls they wouldn't have been counting on a Romney landslide that would have them sitting pretty right now and they would have tempered their rhetoric and spending.
2012-11-26 09:44:33 AM  
1 votes:
www.myfacewhen.net

Plutocrats shocked to find that actions have consequences.
2012-11-26 09:39:46 AM  
1 votes:
Yeah, the USCoC Didn't even have a rational argument, they just repeated overblown Republican talking points. They argued against any and all sensible regulation, and have been pushing an extreme supply-side position this whole time. How can Obama even work with that? They're not even arguing for businesses anymore, they're just stumping for corporate CEO's and executive pay.
2012-11-26 09:37:08 AM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: It is also Exhibit B about how the President can not work with people who have a different view than he has.


the US Chamber of Commerce was rabidly opposed to Obama. they didn't even pretend they were willing to talk compromise...then they worked hard as they could to get Republicans elected. What makes you think they have ANYTHING to offer Obama...? I am genuinely curious about your answer to this question.
x23
2012-11-26 09:36:54 AM  
1 votes:

WorldCitizen: "The president spent four years criticizing the business community," West said.


yeah... i'm pretty sure that wasn't an actual thing.

if you are gonna be herping and derping i can see why the president might not take you seriously. not particularly shocking in all honesty.
2012-11-26 09:33:05 AM  
1 votes:

Headso: "The president spent four years criticizing the business community," West said.

If you repeat republican talkingpoints/propaganda like they are actually true you should be fired from your job. It shows that you don't have a firm grasp on reality and someone that out of touch is a danger when making decisions.


Why? It's not like the guy is a non-partisan think tanker. He's a lobbyist. He wants businesses to send him money rather than spend money on healthcare on their employees. If the business owner is too stupid to realize this, then he's f*cked (as well as the rest of us).

"Obummer Fartbonghit is gonna rape yo jobs!" -USCC

"Take my money! I don't want to be raped!" -Business Owner
 
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