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(Salon)   Should churches be used as polling places? Probably not if they have banners hanging outside the entrance that read, "Strengthen Marriage, Don't Redefine It," in states voting on same-sex marriage laws   (salon.com) divider line 152
    More: Obvious, United Methodist Church, polling places, North Carolina, state board of elections, Daily Camera, Humanist associations, Minnesota Public Radio, voter intimidation  
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1343 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Nov 2012 at 11:50 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-26 12:29:44 PM  

crazyeddie: (As a side note, why shouldn't churches be subject to the same rights and restrictions as any other non-profit, viz: Prove it with tax paperwork, and pay taxes on your land. Why do you want free rides for magic believers?)



The NFL is non-profit. Wrap your head around that one. The truth is our laws on the subject are incredibly lax.
 
2012-11-26 12:31:17 PM  
Well yeah, but remember that time those two black men stood outside a polling place? Remember?
 
2012-11-26 12:31:20 PM  
Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.
 
2012-11-26 12:31:36 PM  

DarnoKonrad: The NFL is non-profit. Wrap your head around that one. The truth is our laws on the subject are incredibly lax.


It makes perfect sense for the NFL to be non-profit. It just sounds ridiculous.
 
2012-11-26 12:32:09 PM  

lilbjorn: Well yeah, but remember that time those two black men stood outside a polling place? Remember?


yeah, that was inappropriate too.
 
2012-11-26 12:33:35 PM  

thurstonxhowell: DarnoKonrad: The NFL is non-profit. Wrap your head around that one. The truth is our laws on the subject are incredibly lax.

It makes perfect sense for the NFL to be non-profit. It just sounds ridiculous.


it is ridiculous.The NFL exists to make money, and they're quite good at it.
 
2012-11-26 12:34:52 PM  

Citrate1007: Not if they want to keep their tax exempt status.


At this point nothing churches do will revoke their exemption status. Nobody has the political balls to rein them in.
 
2012-11-26 12:36:15 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.


I get the same feeling from false equivalences.
 
2012-11-26 12:37:42 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Diogenes: I don't think churches are the best option but I can live with it. Never had a problem when I had to vote at one.

In Oklahoma it's the best option. There is at least one on every street corner and they arnt doing anything during the week. Well maybe Wednesday night.


AA meetings?
 
2012-11-26 12:37:44 PM  
Hey, now how can the churches know that was bad? They are just trying to do something about their massive divorce rate amongst their followers that is many times higher than the rest of the country.
 
2012-11-26 12:38:14 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.


Because you have to be a "hyper-sensitive atheist" to have a problem with reactionary assholes electioneering at a polling place in the name of God, right?
 
2012-11-26 12:38:38 PM  

k1j2b3: qorkfiend:

I have no problem with the church's physical facilities being used as a polling place. However, the church should be subject to the same bans on electioneering as anyplace else.

Just a reminder about the huge Obama mural at one school polling place in PA. They didn't cover that up until the court forced them to. So, if the churches need to cover up messages, then all polling places should be devoid of this. Yes?


Sure, I'll copy what I said the first time into another comment for you:

the church should be subject to the same bans on electioneering as anyplace else.
 
2012-11-26 12:39:49 PM  

DarnoKonrad: thurstonxhowell: DarnoKonrad: The NFL is non-profit. Wrap your head around that one. The truth is our laws on the subject are incredibly lax.

It makes perfect sense for the NFL to be non-profit. It just sounds ridiculous.

it is ridiculous.The NFL exists to make money, and they're quite good at it.


Maybe it's like a professional association. I used to work for a large Realtor association, and the association itself was considered a non-profit. The members of that association were NOT considered to be non-profit, however. So, I guess that whereas the entity of the NFL doesn't pay taxes, the teams probably do. Seems like that would be the distinction.
 
2012-11-26 12:42:36 PM  

Craptastic: DarnoKonrad: thurstonxhowell: DarnoKonrad: The NFL is non-profit. Wrap your head around that one. The truth is our laws on the subject are incredibly lax.

It makes perfect sense for the NFL to be non-profit. It just sounds ridiculous.

it is ridiculous.The NFL exists to make money, and they're quite good at it.

Maybe it's like a professional association. I used to work for a large Realtor association, and the association itself was considered a non-profit. The members of that association were NOT considered to be non-profit, however. So, I guess that whereas the entity of the NFL doesn't pay taxes, the teams probably do. Seems like that would be the distinction.


NFL is considered a trade organization for these purposes
 
2012-11-26 12:47:09 PM  
Churches should not be within 100 feet of a polling place.
 
2012-11-26 12:49:23 PM  
I voted in an elementary school. The pro-"laminated Garfield posters" agenda was plastered everywhere.

/lame joke
 
2012-11-26 12:50:52 PM  
NO!


next?

/DNRTFA
 
2012-11-26 12:58:38 PM  

HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.

Because you have to be a "hyper-sensitive atheist" to have a problem with reactionary assholes electioneering at a polling place in the name of God, right?


No, you just need an over-active imagination.
 
2012-11-26 01:11:20 PM  

serpent_sky: serial_crusher: I'd greatly prefer it if they kept schools open on election day. Stop short changing our kids out of a day of education just because people were too lazy to go vote during the 2 week long early voting period prior to "election day".

CT has no early voting, so I'm sort of fascinated by the whole early voting thing. It was such a huge deal this year (for the first time I can really remember) and its sort of defeats the purpose of election day, doesn't it? I have always been aware of absentee ballots, but I did not know there were actual polling places open for weeks at a time before election day. I thought you had to have a very good reason (military, college in another state, etc.) to vote anywhere but your designated polling place, on election day.

When I was a kid, they had voting in our school cafeteria. We had lunch in our classrooms and got something special, like pizza from a local place on that day. I suppose it worked out for everyone. We certainly liked the treat.


There are very good reasons for early voting in the south, In years past here in Floriduh for example, the rich parts of the state have lots and lots of voting machines on election day and no lines, but the poorer parts of town have lines out the building and around the block due to only having a few voting machines available. Always so strange to see that happen. This year, I was hearing reports of people still in line hours after the polls closed in Miami-Dade county waiting to cast their ballots due to lack of machines and high voter turnout.
 
2012-11-26 01:12:20 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.

Because you have to be a "hyper-sensitive atheist" to have a problem with reactionary assholes electioneering at a polling place in the name of God, right?

No, you just need an over-active imagination.


So you didn't RTFA, then?
 
2012-11-26 01:13:47 PM  

Zalan: There are very good reasons for early voting in the south, In years past here in Floriduh for example, the rich parts of the state have lots and lots of voting machines on election day and no lines, but the poorer parts of town have lines out the building and around the block due to only having a few voting machines available. Always so strange to see that happen. This year, I was hearing reports of people still in line hours after the polls closed in Miami-Dade county waiting to cast their ballots due to lack of machines and high voter turnout.


Seems to me that if you had lines for hours and hundreds or thousands of people who were not properly accommodated, that could be fixed the next time around by obtaining more machines/ballots, opening more polling places, moving machines from less frequented areas to more frequented areas. You almost make it sound as if someone (who could it be?) doesn't want low-income or minority voters to have their say... sigh.
 
2012-11-26 01:14:22 PM  
Our Church buddies love sticking their snouts into our Politics/Government, but they sure aren't too keen on paying taxes.
 
2012-11-26 01:14:56 PM  
Just cover it up with some posters.

media.philly.com
 
2012-11-26 01:17:39 PM  

Zalan: There are very good reasons for early voting in the south, In years past here in Floriduh for example, the rich parts of the state have lots and lots of voting machines on election day and no lines, but the poorer parts of town have lines out the building and around the block due to only having a few voting machines available. Always so strange to see that happen. This year, I was hearing reports of people still in line hours after the polls closed in Miami-Dade county waiting to cast their ballots due to lack of machines and high voter turnout.


In MD, by law, polling places must have 5 machines for every 200 voters (maybe that's only MoCo? IIRC it's the whole state). Lines were pretty manageable here. (CSB: I was in-and-out of a fairly busy polling place in 45 minutes, and that's including some time I spent BSing with a friend I ran into there).

In VA, where that number is something like 2 machines for 1,000 voters, and there is actually a LAW LIMITING THE NUMBER OF MACHINES PER POLLING PLACE, there were 5, 6, 7 hour waits to vote. Apparently, VA couldn't be bothered to make sure their elections were non-clusterfarky, so they didn't allow any funding to improve things from 2010 (when things were all clusterfarky). Some people might note the relative party affiliations of the Governor/SecState and their constituencies, but surely our elected officials would not play politics with an election.
 
MFL
2012-11-26 01:19:35 PM  
Self proclaimed "Progressives" have promoted Motor Voter laws and same day registration, and month-long election days to help them mobilize the votes of people who are so unconnected to the political process and so uninterested in the country's future, and perhaps so incompetent to understand what voting entails that they require keepers to see that they get to the polls and then vote the "right" way.....are getting all worked up stupid shiat like this. Remarkable.....

We've got 47 million people (and counting) on food stamps that are going to always vote for you. The next generation has more "education" than any generation before it and they are still remarkably the most useless generation this country has ever produced. This is great news for the DNC.
 
2012-11-26 01:21:18 PM  

MFL: Self proclaimed "Progressives" have promoted Motor Voter laws and same day registration, and month-long election days to help them mobilize the votes of people who are so unconnected to the political process and so uninterested in the country's future, and perhaps so incompetent to understand what voting entails that they require keepers to see that they get to the polls and then vote the "right" way.....are getting all worked up stupid shiat like this. Remarkable.....

We've got 47 million people (and counting) on food stamps that are going to always vote for you. The next generation has more "education" than any generation before it and they are still remarkably the most useless generation this country has ever produced. This is great news for the DNC.


Still more butthurt I see. Please cry some more.
 
2012-11-26 01:22:41 PM  
My problem comes with using schools as polling places. Midland Texas passed the largest school bond (property tax increase) in city history by plastering "Vote for better Schools, Vote for a better Midland" all over our schools as they were being used as polling places.
 
2012-11-26 01:23:32 PM  
The church I voted at here in Minnesota had "Trust God's authority; not man's majority" on it's sign out front. Such BS that these asshats get away with such crap.
 
2012-11-26 01:25:51 PM  

HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.

Because you have to be a "hyper-sensitive atheist" to have a problem with reactionary assholes electioneering at a polling place in the name of God, right?

No, you just need an over-active imagination.

So you didn't RTFA, then?


Yes, I did. My observation is not based solely upon this article, or upon the subject of electioneering.
 
2012-11-26 01:28:09 PM  

serpent_sky: Zalan: There are very good reasons for early voting in the south, In years past here in Floriduh for example, the rich parts of the state have lots and lots of voting machines on election day and no lines, but the poorer parts of town have lines out the building and around the block due to only having a few voting machines available. Always so strange to see that happen. This year, I was hearing reports of people still in line hours after the polls closed in Miami-Dade county waiting to cast their ballots due to lack of machines and high voter turnout.

Seems to me that if you had lines for hours and hundreds or thousands of people who were not properly accommodated, that could be fixed the next time around by obtaining more machines/ballots, opening more polling places, moving machines from less frequented areas to more frequented areas. You almost make it sound as if someone (who could it be?) doesn't want low-income or minority voters to have their say... sigh.


You would certainly think that...
 
2012-11-26 01:28:43 PM  

MFL: Self proclaimed "Progressives" have promoted Motor Voter laws and same day registration, and month-long election days to help them mobilize the votes of people who are so unconnected to the political process and so uninterested in the country's future, and perhaps so incompetent to understand what voting entails that they require keepers to see that they get to the polls and then vote the "right" way.....are getting all worked up stupid shiat like this. Remarkable.....

We've got 47 million people (and counting) on food stamps that are going to always vote for you. The next generation has more "education" than any generation before it and they are still remarkably the most useless generation this country has ever produced. This is great news for the DNC.


To summarize this post; my side lost so everyone's farking retarded but me. Also, Obama got in his time machine and signed all the Food Stamp legislation in the past and then single-handedly caused the Recession. Also, I'm incredible asspained that demographics are skewing away from the Republican base.
 
2012-11-26 01:29:50 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.

Because you have to be a "hyper-sensitive atheist" to have a problem with reactionary assholes electioneering at a polling place in the name of God, right?

No, you just need an over-active imagination.

So you didn't RTFA, then?

Yes, I did. My observation is not based solely upon this article, or upon the subject of electioneering.


Ah, so you're just threadjacking. Good to know.
 
2012-11-26 01:31:46 PM  
Separation of church and state. Poll at schools, major businesses, and other "secular" places. It's been proven time and time again that religion can't keep its nose out of politics.
 
2012-11-26 01:32:56 PM  

whistleridge: Unless doing so costs them their tax-exempt status and leads to their immediately having to pony up 30% of their income in direct taxation, plus having to complete an obscene amount of paperwork in triplicate. Then I'm all for it.

/ you act like a political organization, you need to be taxed like a political organization


You can't punish religious people for their right to have an opinion. They have just as much right as you do.
 
2012-11-26 01:35:10 PM  

BronyMedic: So these places willfully commited federal crimes by breaking election laws, and they have admitted to doing such on national media as an "oversight?"

So, why hasn't anyone been charged with election tampering yet for this?

/I think we know the answer...



Well, there is an active lawsuit right now by the Freedom From Religion Foundation on that exact subject. Basically, they're suing the feds for dicriminatory application of the law. In essence, the FFRF has to abide by the IRS' laws regarding electioneering so they're suing because the IRS doesn't seem interested in applying those laws to christians.

It'll be interesting to see how that's resolved. So many evangelical churches have been openly and intentionally violating the rules (seriously, many even participated in a day that was explicitly described as an attempt to flout the law) that I think the IRS should have a hard time explaining their lack of enforcement.


MFL: Self proclaimed "Progressives" have promoted Motor Voter laws and same day registration, and month-long election days to help them mobilize the votes of people who are so unconnected to the political process and so uninterested in the country's future, and perhaps so incompetent to understand what voting entails that they require keepers to see that they get to the polls and then vote the "right" way.....are getting all worked up stupid shiat like this. Remarkable.....

We've got 47 million people (and counting) on food stamps that are going to always vote for you. The next generation has more "education" than any generation before it and they are still remarkably the most useless generation this country has ever produced. This is great news for the DNC.



I find your frustration hilarious and heartening.
 
2012-11-26 01:38:48 PM  

Mija: whistleridge: Unless doing so costs them their tax-exempt status and leads to their immediately having to pony up 30% of their income in direct taxation, plus having to complete an obscene amount of paperwork in triplicate. Then I'm all for it.

/ you act like a political organization, you need to be taxed like a political organization

You can't punish religious people for their right to have an opinion. They have just as much right as you do.


Nobody is suggesting that religious people be punished for having an opinion. Religious organizations, however, are not entitled to have a religious opinion if they also enjoy tax free status.

If they cannot confine themselves to their particular superstition, they are not entitled to that status and should pay taxes on whatever they collect from their marks.

Likewise, said marks should not be able to deduct whatever dues they pay from their taxes.
 
2012-11-26 01:39:35 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Yes, I did. My observation is not based solely upon this article, or upon the subject of electioneering.


Sometimes, people who are you remind me of jackasses who don't understand the point of a comment section.
 
2012-11-26 01:40:42 PM  

jcooli09: ...Religious organizations, however, are not entitled to have a religious political opinion if they also enjoy tax free status.

...


Oops!
 
2012-11-26 01:41:55 PM  

crazyeddie: You are kidding/trolling, right? The GOP stands to lose big if people can vote early. They have worked pretty hard to suppress early voting, and quite frankly do not likely appreciate your position on the matter.


Understood but "I don't like early voting because people will vote against me" is anti-democracy. Why hold the election at all?

If turnout is 100% and I lose, either I won't make a good representative or I promoted my candidacy poorly. The OP's point stands: what kind of anti-American nutjob would stifle democracy? They need to take the country back from the people? That's farked up. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the basic rules of our society.
 
2012-11-26 01:44:30 PM  

mongbiohazard: Well, there is an active lawsuit right now by the Freedom From Religion Foundation on that exact subject. Basically, they're suing the feds for dicriminatory application of the law. In essence, the FFRF has to abide by the IRS' laws regarding electioneering so they're suing because the IRS doesn't seem interested in applying those laws to christians religious groups/entities.


It's not like synagogues and mosques (and temples and meeting places and forests and...) are being taxed up the wazoo. It's most noticeable with the religion that 80% of US believers subscribe to, but it's endemic to the IRS' application of tax law to religious establishments.
 
2012-11-26 01:44:39 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: Separation of church and state. Poll at schools, major businesses, and other "secular" places. It's been proven time and time again that religion can't keep its nose out of politics.


But schools and businesses can? Heck, common ballot initiatives directly involve schools.
 
2012-11-26 01:45:16 PM  

jcooli09: Nobody is suggesting that religious people be punished for having an opinion. Religious organizations, however, are not entitled to have a religious opinion if they also enjoy tax free status.


they are allowed to have a political opinion. The Catholic Church, for example, can oppose abortion and capital punishment and still retain its tax exempt status.
 
2012-11-26 01:45:37 PM  
Most of the places I've voted at were churches, but I've never seen any of the issues that seem to happen elsewhere. It's usually just booths set up in the fellowship hall or gymnasium and it might as well be a school gym--nothing visibly religious. The church I grew up in has always been a polling place and they use the sanctuary, but we were the sort of Presbyterians who don't believe in religious imagery of any kind, so there isn't even a cross on the wall. They'd just stack up the chairs along the walls and stick booths in.

I have a problem though, with voting in churches when there's religious iconography staring down at you while you're in the booth. Particularly with gay rights votes, where all the anti-gay rhetoric is religiously charged, that strikes me as electioneering. To have Mary and Joseph and the Baby Jesus staring down on you disapprovingly when you cast a vote for equality doesn't seem right.
 
2012-11-26 01:47:51 PM  
So allowing more people to be in happy stable legally recognized contractual states of existence is bad? HRM. Yeah I don't think the whole marriage is only for straights crowd has REALLY thought this through. Their argument comes mostly from a place of insecurity and a feeling that the popular culture is against them so they fight the inevitable with cries of marriage being sacred and such when in reality marriage is the domain of the state and has been since...since Henry VIII kicked out the catholic church.

Nevada alone proves that marriage is just a legal contract to co-habitat and/or procreate and contribute to society at a larger level than simply being a selfish individual. I for one say that any candidate for office that does not promote MORE freedom ought not to be voted for at all ever. People ought to be free to marry/not to marry rather than free from marriage by others ...amirite? Just as you ought to be free to worship/or not to worship rather than being free from others worshipping.

Social conservatives claim to want to stabilize society with the institution of marriage. Well what better way than to encourage those who have been outcasts to "come into the fold" via marriage. They want to be more like YOU...this is hardly a bad thing to extend the same legal protections and tax status to more people simply because of their sexual orientation.
 
2012-11-26 01:52:25 PM  

HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.

Because you have to be a "hyper-sensitive atheist" to have a problem with reactionary assholes electioneering at a polling place in the name of God, right?

No, you just need an over-active imagination.

So you didn't RTFA, then?

Yes, I did. My observation is not based solely upon this article, or upon the subject of electioneering.

Ah, so you're just threadjacking. Good to know.


Keep proving my point.
 
2012-11-26 01:56:13 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.

Because you have to be a "hyper-sensitive atheist" to have a problem with reactionary assholes electioneering at a polling place in the name of God, right?

No, you just need an over-active imagination.

So you didn't RTFA, then?

Yes, I did. My observation is not based solely upon this article, or upon the subject of electioneering.

Ah, so you're just threadjacking. Good to know.

Keep proving my point.


Perhaps you'd like to explain what your point is. Slowly. Like I'm an idiot. Because the only "point" I'm getting out of your posts is that you don't think that churches engage in electioneering when they host polling places, despite the fact that TFA cites several confirmed instances of them doing just that.
 
2012-11-26 01:57:56 PM  

HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.

Because you have to be a "hyper-sensitive atheist" to have a problem with reactionary assholes electioneering at a polling place in the name of God, right?

No, you just need an over-active imagination.

So you didn't RTFA, then?

Yes, I did. My observation is not based solely upon this article, or upon the subject of electioneering.

Ah, so you're just threadjacking. Good to know.

Keep proving my point.

Perhaps you'd like to explain what your point is. Slowly. Like I'm an idiot. Because the only "point" I'm getting out of your posts is that you don't think that churches engage in electioneering when they host polling places, despite the fact that TFA cites several confirmed instances of them doing just that.


they clearly do - read the thread though. There are several instances where the mere fact that the polling place is a church bothers people. That's silly.
 
2012-11-26 01:59:08 PM  

skullkrusher: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.

Because you have to be a "hyper-sensitive atheist" to have a problem with reactionary assholes electioneering at a polling place in the name of God, right?

No, you just need an over-active imagination.

So you didn't RTFA, then?

Yes, I did. My observation is not based solely upon this article, or upon the subject of electioneering.

Ah, so you're just threadjacking. Good to know.

Keep proving my point.

Perhaps you'd like to explain what your point is. Slowly. Like I'm an idiot. Because the only "point" I'm getting out of your posts is that you don't think that churches engage in electioneering when they host polling places, despite the fact that TFA cites several confirmed instances of them doing just that.

they clearly do - read the thread though. There are several instances where the mere fact that the polling place is a church bothers people. That's silly.


I agree, that is silly. That's not what was claimed by BarkingUnicorn, however.
 
2012-11-26 02:01:22 PM  

whistleridge: Unless doing so costs them their tax-exempt status and leads to their immediately having to pony up 30% of their income in direct taxation, plus having to complete an obscene amount of paperwork in triplicate. Then I'm all for it.

/ you act like a political organization, you need to be taxed like a political organization


What income?
 
2012-11-26 02:01:38 PM  

HeartBurnKid: skullkrusher: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: HeartBurnKid: BarkingUnicorn: Sometimes, hyper-sensitive atheists remind me of people who are allergic to WiFi.

Because you have to be a "hyper-sensitive atheist" to have a problem with reactionary assholes electioneering at a polling place in the name of God, right?

No, you just need an over-active imagination.

So you didn't RTFA, then?

Yes, I did. My observation is not based solely upon this article, or upon the subject of electioneering.

Ah, so you're just threadjacking. Good to know.

Keep proving my point.

Perhaps you'd like to explain what your point is. Slowly. Like I'm an idiot. Because the only "point" I'm getting out of your posts is that you don't think that churches engage in electioneering when they host polling places, despite the fact that TFA cites several confirmed instances of them doing just that.

they clearly do - read the thread though. There are several instances where the mere fact that the polling place is a church bothers people. That's silly.

I agree, that is silly. That's not what was claimed by BarkingUnicorn, however.


Account created: 2012-03-04 23:18:14
 
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