If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Salon)   Should churches be used as polling places? Probably not if they have banners hanging outside the entrance that read, "Strengthen Marriage, Don't Redefine It," in states voting on same-sex marriage laws   (salon.com) divider line 152
    More: Obvious, United Methodist Church, polling places, North Carolina, state board of elections, Daily Camera, Humanist associations, Minnesota Public Radio, voter intimidation  
•       •       •

1341 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Nov 2012 at 11:50 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



152 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-11-26 08:48:56 AM
Unless doing so costs them their tax-exempt status and leads to their immediately having to pony up 30% of their income in direct taxation, plus having to complete an obscene amount of paperwork in triplicate. Then I'm all for it.

/ you act like a political organization, you need to be taxed like a political organization
 
2012-11-26 08:49:08 AM
I guess I'm one of the few who has a problem with Churches being used as polling places. But it's done all over the place in the South East, and no one else seems to have a problem with it.
 
2012-11-26 09:25:06 AM
in this area, we didn't have any issues with using local churches as polling places. some of the poll workers might have been snippy but the churches themselves were pretty accommodating when it came to making the whole process as neutral as possible. election day went rather smoothly in Pennsylvania.
 
2012-11-26 09:33:26 AM

Cythraul: I guess I'm one of the few who has a problem with Churches being used as polling places. But it's done all over the place in the South East, and no one else seems to have a problem with it.


Probably because churches tend to be one of the few buildings in those areas large enough to handle voter crowds, and not in much use on Tuesdays.

But yeah. Not a fan. (Hereabouts, most polling places are at local schools.)
 
2012-11-26 09:37:35 AM
The Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis called the incidents an oversight, and the signs came down by midday on Election Day.

Willful acts that take thought, planning, and execution are now "oversights". Got it.
 
2012-11-26 09:41:43 AM

abb3w: Cythraul: I guess I'm one of the few who has a problem with Churches being used as polling places. But it's done all over the place in the South East, and no one else seems to have a problem with it.

Probably because churches tend to be one of the few buildings in those areas large enough to handle voter crowds, and not in much use on Tuesdays.

But yeah. Not a fan. (Hereabouts, most polling places are at local schools.)


Pretty much this. In a rural area, you pretty much have to pick between a church or the local elementary school. My polling place is a church...or rather, the little 1-room block fellowship hall beside the church that smelled vaguely of old carpet, old ladies, and many a pot-luck dinners from Sundays past.
 
2012-11-26 09:44:58 AM
Yeah, taking down anything deemed "political" seems like a no brainer, but you're bound to get crazies claiming that a cross on the wall is political; or even holding it in a school, as if to say "look at what these tax and spend liberals spent your hard earned money on". So, I can see where the situation gets needlessly complicated if you start going down that slope.

The display was outside the 100-foot buffer zone required by Colorado law, but even if the display was legal, Boulder County officials have decided to no longer use the church as a polling place, according to the Daily Camera.

Sounds like a fair resolution to this isolated incident.
 
2012-11-26 09:46:46 AM
I'm not a huge fan of them being used as polling places but there are times there isn't much choice. They used to use my work as one and it was very inconvenient not only for us but for the workers and voters. The next best place nearby happened to be a church so they moved the precinct there
 
2012-11-26 09:47:13 AM

kid_icarus: you pretty much have to pick between a church or the local elementary school


I'd greatly prefer it if they kept schools open on election day. Stop short changing our kids out of a day of education just because people were too lazy to go vote during the 2 week long early voting period prior to "election day".

Here in Austin they set up trailers with early voting booths in grocery store parking lots, among other places. Pro-vegetable propaganda was everywhere!
 
2012-11-26 09:50:04 AM
I don't think churches are the best option but I can live with it. Never had a problem when I had to vote at one.

Except the time we lost power. I was biting my tongue so hard it bled, resisting the urge to yell, "Where is your God now?!"

I blame you, Fark.
 
2012-11-26 10:15:40 AM
Do churches (and everywhere else) get paid for being a voting precinct?
 
2012-11-26 10:16:47 AM

serial_crusher: Here in Austin they set up trailers with early voting booths in grocery store parking lots, among other places. Pro-vegetable propaganda was everywhere!


Yeah, my early voting location in N Austin was always the Randall's grocery store. About the only time their parking lot ever got close to full...
 
2012-11-26 10:21:34 AM
So these places willfully commited federal crimes by breaking election laws, and they have admitted to doing such on national media as an "oversight?"

So, why hasn't anyone been charged with election tampering yet for this?

/I think we know the answer...
 
2012-11-26 10:23:38 AM

Diogenes: I don't think churches are the best option but I can live with it. Never had a problem when I had to vote at one.


In Oklahoma it's the best option. There is at least one on every street corner and they arnt doing anything during the week. Well maybe Wednesday night.
 
2012-11-26 10:23:51 AM

serial_crusher: I'd greatly prefer it if they kept schools open on election day. Stop short changing our kids out of a day of education just because people were too lazy to go vote during the 2 week long early voting period prior to "election day".


CT has no early voting, so I'm sort of fascinated by the whole early voting thing. It was such a huge deal this year (for the first time I can really remember) and its sort of defeats the purpose of election day, doesn't it? I have always been aware of absentee ballots, but I did not know there were actual polling places open for weeks at a time before election day. I thought you had to have a very good reason (military, college in another state, etc.) to vote anywhere but your designated polling place, on election day.

When I was a kid, they had voting in our school cafeteria. We had lunch in our classrooms and got something special, like pizza from a local place on that day. I suppose it worked out for everyone. We certainly liked the treat.
 
2012-11-26 10:32:37 AM

serpent_sky: serial_crusher: I'd greatly prefer it if they kept schools open on election day. Stop short changing our kids out of a day of education just because people were too lazy to go vote during the 2 week long early voting period prior to "election day".

CT has no early voting, so I'm sort of fascinated by the whole early voting thing. It was such a huge deal this year (for the first time I can really remember) and its sort of defeats the purpose of election day, doesn't it? I have always been aware of absentee ballots, but I did not know there were actual polling places open for weeks at a time before election day. I thought you had to have a very good reason (military, college in another state, etc.) to vote anywhere but your designated polling place, on election day.


Yeah, I think the idea of tethering people to a certain polling place was an artifact of the fact that local ballots looked different and with physical sheets of paper you couldn't represent multiple ballots in the same location without it turning into a madhouse. But, with electronic voting, it doesn't matter. I check in at the front desk and they give me a code that I enter into the machine and it shows the applicable ballot for my area.

I don't get the existence of "voting day" either. Here they actually have like a week off between "early voting" and "voting day". I kind of just feel like polls should be open the whole month of October, and leave it at that.

Don't really get why anybody would oppose early voting.
 
2012-11-26 10:41:55 AM

serial_crusher: Yeah, I think the idea of tethering people to a certain polling place was an artifact of the fact that local ballots looked different and with physical sheets of paper you couldn't represent multiple ballots in the same location without it turning into a madhouse. But, with electronic voting, it doesn't matter. I check in at the front desk and they give me a code that I enter into the machine and it shows the applicable ballot for my area.

I don't get the existence of "voting day" either. Here they actually have like a week off between "early voting" and "voting day". I kind of just feel like polls should be open the whole month of October, and leave it at that.

Don't really get why anybody would oppose early voting.


The only reason I can see opposing early voting is, if you vote October 1st and the polls close November 1st, anything could happen in that month -- and there is no way to change your vote if information comes to light that genuinely changes you mind (even if it is just to abstain from voting or voting "no confidence." It's not as if people stop campaigning or things cease happening in that month. THAT said, anything can happen the day after a single election day, so I guess it's not that huge of a deal.

We still have paper ballots here, though. We go to tables with dividers and write on them with markers, then put them into a scanner by the door. It's nothing like the cloaked booths I remember from going with my mom when I was a kid (Queens, NY - I have no idea what voting is like there now, I moved when I turned 18). To kid me, though, they seemed really high tech and official. And yet. Stamford is a pretty big east coast city (desperately trying to become Manhattan North) to have simple paper ballots.

Rather than worrying about election day or early voting, I'd rather see a push for standardized ballots. And I guess some assurance that the ballots are actually counted as entered, though there is probably no way to prove that paper or electronic.
 
2012-11-26 11:36:22 AM

Cythraul: I guess I'm one of the few who has a problem with Churches being used as polling places.


Like the stupid banners are going to change someone's minds right at the last minute?
 
2012-11-26 11:56:09 AM

Cythraul: I guess I'm one of the few who has a problem with Churches being used as polling places. But it's done all over the place in the South East, and no one else seems to have a problem with it.


I have no problem with the church's physical facilities being used as a polling place. However, the church should be subject to the same bans on electioneering as anyplace else.
 
2012-11-26 11:56:18 AM
Churches make fine polling places. There are already laws on the books in all states saying that they need to cover up their religious hate-speech, but that's pretty simple to do.

I'm guessing $10 worth of sheets and $1.00 worth of duct tape would sanitize most churches.
 
2012-11-26 11:56:31 AM
Did anything happen to that group of evangelicals who gave the finger to the IRS by videotaping themselves endorsing candidates in front of their congregations?
 
2012-11-26 11:57:22 AM
aren't all churches portals to HELL?
 
2012-11-26 11:58:57 AM
You kids should really try this Vote By Mail thing. All the cool states are doing it.
 
2012-11-26 11:59:27 AM
That's electioneering, isn't it? I mean, I am not an expert, but if a school has to cover up an Obama mural, one would think they'd have to remove those banners.
 
2012-11-26 12:01:00 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: aren't all churches portals to HELL?


Yeah, but make sure you stop by for coffee and sweet rolls in the narthex first.
 
2012-11-26 12:02:26 PM
Trolls are slipping.. we're like 20+ posts in and no Obama mural.
 
2012-11-26 12:02:41 PM

serial_crusher: Yeah, taking down anything deemed "political" seems like a no brainer, but you're bound to get crazies claiming that a cross on the wall is political; or even holding it in a school, as if to say "look at what these tax and spend liberals spent your hard earned money on". So, I can see where the situation gets needlessly complicated if you start going down that slope.

The display was outside the 100-foot buffer zone required by Colorado law, but even if the display was legal, Boulder County officials have decided to no longer use the church as a polling place, according to the Daily Camera.

Sounds like a fair resolution to this isolated incident.


This is why it pays to read the article....
 
2012-11-26 12:03:51 PM
"Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." ― Thomas Jefferson

/Churches should not be used as polling places.
 
2012-11-26 12:05:58 PM

kid_icarus: abb3w: Cythraul: I guess I'm one of the few who has a problem with Churches being used as polling places. But it's done all over the place in the South East, and no one else seems to have a problem with it.

Probably because churches tend to be one of the few buildings in those areas large enough to handle voter crowds, and not in much use on Tuesdays.

But yeah. Not a fan. (Hereabouts, most polling places are at local schools.)

Pretty much this. In a rural area, you pretty much have to pick between a church or the local elementary school. My polling place is a church...or rather, the little 1-room block fellowship hall beside the church that smelled vaguely of old carpet, old ladies, and many a pot-luck dinners from Sundays past.


I heard the principal of my kids elementary school say she was glad that the district finally got rid of all the polling places in the school. She said they create a security risk. The schools are no admission without check in and photograph the rest of the year, they hated opening up the building to the general public.
 
2012-11-26 12:06:14 PM

Headso: Trolls are slipping.. we're like 20+ posts in and no Obama mural.


I don't think it is trollish to mention that in this context. Who cares if a Church is being used as a polling place as long as it adheres to the rules against politicking? This banner and that mural would both fail that test.
 
2012-11-26 12:07:55 PM

Cythraul: I guess I'm one of the few who has a problem with Churches being used as polling places. But it's done all over the place in the South East, and no one else seems to have a problem with it.


They're big buildings that are usually empty. I'd prefer voting in a church. They're usually easier to get to than obscure government buildings. I have to vote in some godforsaken senior center in the middle of nowhere.
 
2012-11-26 12:09:01 PM
How about we just give them all the rope they want for now, eh?
 
2012-11-26 12:10:21 PM

serial_crusher: kid_icarus: you pretty much have to pick between a church or the local elementary school

I'd greatly prefer it if they kept schools open on election day. Stop short changing our kids out of a day of education just because people were too lazy to go vote during the 2 week long early voting period prior to "election day".

Here in Austin they set up trailers with early voting booths in grocery store parking lots, among other places. Pro-vegetable propaganda was everywhere!


Ah, so you admit they're in the pocket of Big Eggplant!
 
2012-11-26 12:10:59 PM

Summer Glau's Love Slave: "Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." ― Thomas Jefferson

/Churches should not be used as polling places.


If anyone lets the wrath of god influence their voting they should probably just stay home. There's no real reason we even need physical polling places with pathetic hours. Who's available 10-4 on a weekday to go vote? I should be able to vote at home or on a machine at a 24 hour grocery.
 
2012-11-26 12:14:01 PM

serial_crusher: Yeah, taking down anything deemed "political" seems like a no brainer, but you're bound to get crazies claiming that a cross on the wall is political; or even holding it in a school, as if to say "look at what these tax and spend liberals spent your hard earned money on". So, I can see where the situation gets needlessly complicated if you start going down that slope.


Interesting... I mean, at least every other election if not more has school-related stuff on the ballot. We do mail-in here and I haven't been to polling place in years... I wonder if schools putting up stuff in this regard is ever an issue.
 
2012-11-26 12:15:38 PM

Insatiable Jesus: How about we just give them all the rope they want for now, eh?


Because they have already had more than enough and it's not enough to hang them because they scream persecution the second anyone says anything.

I really would love to see all the churches lose their tax-exempt status, since they're not staying out of politics either way, and the country could use the money. But see above: persecution.
 
2012-11-26 12:16:16 PM

Summer Glau's Love Slave: "Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society." ― Thomas Jefferson

/Churches should not be used as polling places.


I'm pretty sure that wall was meant to be figurative.
 
2012-11-26 12:17:26 PM
We brought this up with the ACLU in Anchorage many years ago.

There was a gay rights initiative that was supposed to appear on the ballot. All the right-wing churches marched all over town with their crosses and other religious symbolism to fight it. First Amendment groups (of which I was a part) argued that the use of religion to argue laws made all of those symbols into electioneering, and that for this issue, all similar symbols had to be removed from polling places.

It was removed from the ballot before the election for some reason I don't recall -- but the ACLU worked to set up poll watching at the churches and they carried it out anyway (I was a volunteer).

Inside of the churches, all the right-wing ones had literature racks and fund-raisers for people standing in line. They used the elections to proselytize and make money. Church elders (again, only the right-wing ones, the "happy" churches were all cool about it) yelled and screamed and told us we had to leave the property, even after we showed them our credentials. We didn't leave until we were ready to.

It was an educational day.
 
2012-11-26 12:17:51 PM

serpent_sky: Insatiable Jesus: How about we just give them all the rope they want for now, eh?

Because they have already had more than enough and it's not enough to hang them because they scream persecution the second anyone says anything.

I really would love to see all the churches lose their tax-exempt status, since they're not staying out of politics either way, and the country could use the money. But see above: persecution.


The IRS needs to crack down on those churches which violate the requirements of their status but not all churches do it so a blanket repeal of tax-exempt statuses isn't the answer
 
2012-11-26 12:18:17 PM
The thing is, every election the population is larger than it was the previous time, and there aren't a ton of new precincts being added as budgets are strained and volunteers are already hard to come by.

Early voting helps reduce the strain on the polling places come Election Day. Yes, it also is a convenience, so people need not miss work or the like. But imagine what those 4+ hour lines would have been like without the millions of people the had already voted.

There are decent arguments for not starting it ridiculously early, but beyond that it should probably be expanded as long as states aren't going to put in the resources (money and people) required to significantly expand the number of voting machines and polling places for use on Election Day.

But above and beyond all that, another good reason to support it is the demeanor and attitude of the people that went out of their way in this election cycle to restrict, reduce, and even eliminate it - the Jon Husteds, the Rick Scotts, and others, sometimes trying to find a way to defy court orders in the process. If they are the people vehemently against it, primarily because all the "wrong people" tend to vote early, you should be for it.
 
2012-11-26 12:18:26 PM

qorkfiend:

I have no problem with the church's physical facilities being used as a polling place. However, the church should be subject to the same bans on electioneering as anyplace else.


Just a reminder about the huge Obama mural at one school polling place in PA. They didn't cover that up until the court forced them to. So, if the churches need to cover up messages, then all polling places should be devoid of this. Yes?
 
2012-11-26 12:20:31 PM

k1j2b3: qorkfiend:

I have no problem with the church's physical facilities being used as a polling place. However, the church should be subject to the same bans on electioneering as anyplace else.

Just a reminder about the huge Obama mural at one school polling place in PA. They didn't cover that up until the court forced them to. So, if the churches need to cover up messages, then all polling places should be devoid of this. Yes?


Absolutely they should. The polling place should be nonpartisan.
 
2012-11-26 12:20:38 PM
I've always felt it a tiny bit unsettling having to vote at a church. Even so, there have never been any issues at my local church/polling place that I've found objectionable. I will say that I liked it better when I voted in a library. As long as there are no shenanigans, it's all good with me.

Also, the church where I vote is usually pretty good at getting people in and out as quickly as possible.
 
2012-11-26 12:21:12 PM
 
2012-11-26 12:22:13 PM

someonelse: Jon iz teh kewl: aren't all churches portals to HELL?

Yeah, but make sure you stop by for coffee and sweet rolls in the narthex first.


How many churches have one now? It's all strip mall glass-and-steel these days, isn't it?
 
2012-11-26 12:22:35 PM
There are sects of believers who will not enter a church. Wouldn't that make this a potential problem of disenfranchisement? And in the Voting Rights Act-South, no less.

// I suspect there may be a reason we haven't heard of a case like this before
 
2012-11-26 12:24:17 PM
Pulling voting booths out of churches just allows the lie-bruls to further rig elections. Churches are the last beacons of honesty and integrity in this country. Without voting inside churches, the demoncrats can proceed with with voter intimidation at will. No one will be there to stop them.
 
2012-11-26 12:27:07 PM
Ugh. I wish they'd stop pulling this kind of stunt.

When our city council approved the addition of orientation and gender identity to the employment and housing nondiscrimination act, all the farking churches circulated the petition to overturn the decision, some during service. I'm very bitter about that.
 
2012-11-26 12:27:31 PM

serial_crusher: Don't really get why anybody would oppose early voting.


You are kidding/trolling, right? The GOP stands to lose big if people can vote early. They have worked pretty hard to suppress early voting, and quite frankly do not likely appreciate your position on the matter. (source)

Hell, they even acknowledge that voter suppression is the goal of early voting restrictions. (source)

Regarding churches, voting should not take place in them for the same reason that voting should not take place in a campaign headquarters. It doesn't matter if the walls are stripped of 'obvious' partisanship: Everyone knows what the building is and what it stands for. Clearly, you have not been to a church in the South.

(As a side note, why shouldn't churches be subject to the same rights and restrictions as any other non-profit, viz: Prove it with tax paperwork, and pay taxes on your land. Why do you want free rides for magic believers?)
 
2012-11-26 12:29:02 PM
Not if they want to keep their tax exempt status.
 
Displayed 50 of 152 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report