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(Gather)   Will Rick get another phone call? Will Michonne find her way to the prison? Will Merle lend a hand to Maggie and Glenn, or does The Governor have something else in mind? It's your official Walking Dead Discussion Thread (9PM ET on AMC)   (entertainment.gather.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, governors, 9PM ET, phone calls, Woodbury  
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1416 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 25 Nov 2012 at 8:00 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-26 07:12:27 AM  

born_yesterday: fusillade762: I think it's probably more likely the writers just forgot.

They must have LOST that previous plot point.

I haven't read the comics, so I can't compare, but I think they're setting up the Governor to be more of a bullshiat artist than paramilitary badass in the show.

But I'm not sure. One minute, he's taking out a platoon of Guardsmen without losing a single man, or suffering a single casualty. The next, he's got a crossbowman on the wall that can't shoot for shiat, and his inner circle seems pretty limited to 3-5 guys, two of which died last week.

And unless anyone would like to argue that Rick and the gang are going to live happily-ever-after at Woodbury, I think that group of townspeople is farked once Rick kills what's left of their defense force.


I thought everything archer girl said was a lie. Would it stand to reason that she was also lying about her skills with the bow? I mean, like others have said elsewhere, it's possible she was missing on purpose.

As for the Guv being a bullshiat artist, well.. yeah.

/Andrea, what the fk is wrong with you??!!
 
2012-11-26 07:14:31 AM  

Gonzee: No way to survive fast zombie dogs without getting bitten. They would horde up and you would be farked.
But I can't see the zombies catching dogs the way they are depicted.
Just one of my WTF questions. No biggie.


Even the Vatos puppies could escape from zombies.

Mad_Radhu: A big question is what happens when an animal bites a walker. It could be that the zombie flesh is poisonous to dogs, so the aggressive feral dogs may have died when they attacked the walkers and bit into the zombies. The usefulness of dogs also depends on how they handle a zombie filled world, like the dog chapter in World War Z detailed. Would they be useful in detecting people who are bitten and are hiding it, or would the constant scent of the dead basically make them go so apeshiat that they would be useless for most jobs? Could you train puppies that were more used to the scent of the walkers to be more useful? WWZ does veer a bit into survival porn, but I did enjoy the worldbuilding that was done in exploring questions like this.


Now I has a major sad about the WWZ movie that will never be :(
 
2012-11-26 07:20:14 AM  

born_yesterday: And unless anyone would like to argue that Rick and the gang are going to live happily-ever-after at Woodbury, I think that group of townspeople is farked once Rick kills what's left of their defense force.


Agreed. However farked up the Gov might be he's kept those people safe. And they've accepted his protection.

They're all going to die.

The degree to which Rick feels responsible for that will be the question.
 
2012-11-26 08:16:34 AM  

fusillade762: Just finished watching: damn I have a serious lump in my stomach.

Anyone else notice the first shot of the Woodbury guard on the wall? His rifle barrel seemed REALLY bent.

The Governor actually seems scared. I'm actually kinda hoping for a wholesale slaughter of everyone in the town. Does that make me a bad person?


I noticed the bent barrel too!
 
2012-11-26 08:44:40 AM  
How else are you going to shoot around corners? Jeez guys.
 
2012-11-26 09:12:02 AM  
I really, really, really wanted to like this show, but it seems to be going in the wrong direction.

The Governor and his well trained armed goons (the ones that took out the army guys) are all impressed that the other group cleared out a prison? Why?

One grief stricken Rick cleared out half the place in a fit of anger. Killing walkers should be a non-issue at this point. And, these people have managed to clear out/defend their town, which is going to be significantly more difficult than the prison. The prison is pretty secure, with lots of locking cells and doors and wings. But a town? That's just open. They had to build walls. Not just build walls, they've also managed to do a significant amount of infrastructure work (all of the water lines and electricity provided via the generators). They've done significantly better than the group in the prison - so why are they impressed?

Not only did they handle the walkers, they've been killing *people*. People are infinitely more dangerous than walkers.
 
2012-11-26 09:12:36 AM  
Chandler Riggs is sitting at the kids table at the Emmy's, Golden Globes, etc, talking to the other child actors.....

So you got to be on Disney/Nickelodeon and starred on The Suite Life of That's So Carly having wacky hijinks and outsmarting your parents, teachers and all the adults? That's nice. I'm on TWD and I get to shoot a gun, kill zombies and my mother.

The governor and his henchthugs being impressed by Rick and the Gang cleaning out the prison. Is it really that amazing? When you think about it, a prison is the perfect place to clean out and live. Clean out a cell block at a time, keep the gates closed behind you. As long as you don't have some yahoo opening them up behind you it's all good.

The more I think about it, I can see Rick and his team "easily" taking out Woodbury. Everybody in the prison is trained in zombie combat. They've been battle tested and all. Most of the citizens of Woodbury are too removed from the day to day interactions with Walkers to be able to handle them.

Why did the governor have Andrea chaperone Milton and Mr. Coleman? Was it a test or something more?
 
2012-11-26 09:14:34 AM  

You Are All Sheep: How else are you going to shoot around corners? Jeez guys.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-26 09:31:02 AM  
I didn't notice the bent barrel, but I'll keep an eye out for it. What kind of moron would fire a gun that will blow up in his face?

Fark_Guy_Rob: I really, really, really wanted to like this show, but it seems to be going in the wrong direction.

The Governor and his well trained armed goons (the ones that took out the army guys) are all impressed that the other group cleared out a prison? Why?

One grief stricken Rick cleared out half the place in a fit of anger. Killing walkers should be a non-issue at this point. And, these people have managed to clear out/defend their town, which is going to be significantly more difficult than the prison. The prison is pretty secure, with lots of locking cells and doors and wings. But a town? That's just open. They had to build walls. Not just build walls, they've also managed to do a significant amount of infrastructure work (all of the water lines and electricity provided via the generators). They've done significantly better than the group in the prison - so why are they impressed?

Not only did they handle the walkers, they've been killing *people*. People are infinitely more dangerous than walkers.


Yeah, I'm hoping the writers don't shiat themselves on this one, trying to make the Gov. appear menacing, but giving the impression of far too much military skill. Maybe it could be argued that they took the Guardsmen by surprise, but they seemed pretty ready for action when the Governor showed up, he should have lost at least a redshirt or four to make it believable (or gotten shot while wearing a vest).

Maybe the Governor hasn't seen the prison, but trusted Merle, who probably wanted to get drunk and hit on high school chicks.
 
2012-11-26 09:32:19 AM  
I'll correct myself for the formatting of my post above; I in no way meant to imply that Fark_Guy_Rob was the kind of moran that would fire a rifle with a bent barrel.
 
2012-11-26 09:33:45 AM  

BizarreMan: Chandler Riggs is sitting at the kids table at the Emmy's, Golden Globes, etc, talking to the other child actors.....


In half a season, Carl has gone from a meme joke to the level of Adric and alt.startrek.wesley.crusher.die.die.die to.... what? Total-badass? Very happy for the actor and the character.

I'm not sure if I put him in the same category as Kiernan Shirpka, but when they want to put these two in a drama in about 20 years, I'll be there.
 
2012-11-26 09:34:43 AM  
Can we just have an hour of Maggie walking around topless?

/The governor isnt all that bad.
 
2012-11-26 09:35:20 AM  
Is the Red Zone really a bad place? The prison is supposedly in the middle of it. Could it just be a propaganda piece to keep the Woodburyites in line?
 
2012-11-26 09:38:50 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: The Governor and his well trained armed goons (the ones that took out the army guys) are all impressed that the other group cleared out a prison? Why?


Merle said it couldn't be done.

Also, the gov does not know the size of the prison gang.
 
2012-11-26 09:39:19 AM  

BizarreMan: Is the Red Zone really a bad place? The prison is supposedly in the middle of it. Could it just be a propaganda piece to keep the Woodburyites in line?


I thought the number of walkers they encountered approaching Woodbury was indicative of how dangerous it was. They characters even commented on it.

Probably a little of both, because the town seemed really deserted.
 
2012-11-26 09:43:20 AM  

Broktun: Merle said it couldn't be done.

Also, the gov does not know the size of the prison gang.


Maggie told them they had 10 people.
 
2012-11-26 09:53:42 AM  

BizarreMan: Broktun: Merle said it couldn't be done.

Also, the gov does not know the size of the prison gang.

Maggie told them they had 10 people.


Does he trust what Maggie would say when Merle said it couldn't be done?
 
2012-11-26 10:14:45 AM  

Broktun: BizarreMan: Broktun: Merle said it couldn't be done.

Also, the gov does not know the size of the prison gang.

Maggie told them they had 10 people.

Does he trust what Maggie would say when Merle said it couldn't be done?


Maggie had no reason to lie at that point. I think the Gov is having second thoughts about Merle's capabilities.
 
2012-11-26 10:26:21 AM  

born_yesterday: I'll correct myself for the formatting of my post above; I in no way meant to imply that Fark_Guy_Rob was the kind of moran that would fire a rifle with a bent barrel.


For the record, I probably am the kind of moran that would fire a rifle with a bent barrel :)
 
2012-11-26 10:41:30 AM  

kumanoki: Broktun: BizarreMan: Broktun: Merle said it couldn't be done.

Also, the gov does not know the size of the prison gang.

Maggie told them they had 10 people.

Does he trust what Maggie would say when Merle said it couldn't be done?

Maggie had no reason to lie at that point. I think the Gov is having second thoughts about Merle's capabilities.


From the previews, it looked like both brothers were having second thoughts about going up against each other.
 
2012-11-26 10:46:55 AM  

BizarreMan: Clean out a cell block at a time, keep the gates closed behind you.


It's especially easy when you live in a magic prison where none of the doors are electronic and nearly all of them don't lock anyway.

Not that it matters much. In last weeks episode Daryl deliberately chose to move past living walkers in a room with the door actually ajar so he could come back and "kill them later". He did not seem to think getting caught in a crunch between zombies in front and behind was anything to be concerned with.
 
2012-11-26 10:50:53 AM  

T.M.S.: BizarreMan: Clean out a cell block at a time, keep the gates closed behind you.

It's especially easy when you live in a magic prison where none of the doors are electronic and nearly all of them don't lock anyway.

Not that it matters much. In last weeks episode Daryl deliberately chose to move past living walkers in a room with the door actually ajar so he could come back and "kill them later". He did not seem to think getting caught in a crunch between zombies in front and behind was anything to be concerned with.


He also noticed that they didn't seem to be capable of moving the door much, so maybe he figured whatever was in there was weak enough to not be a threat. And when it came down to it, wasn't that the same room that Carol was found in? Sure, it was lazy writing, and pretty stupid not to cover his back, but I can see why they would have wanted to avoid the reveal until the end of the episode.
 
2012-11-26 11:00:22 AM  

Broktun: Fark_Guy_Rob: The Governor and his well trained armed goons (the ones that took out the army guys) are all impressed that the other group cleared out a prison? Why?

Merle said it couldn't be done.

Also, the gov does not know the size of the prison gang.


Yeah - but I don't get why Merle would say it couldn't be done? Merle is a lot of things; but he's not a coward or weak. He has a stronger team than Rick with more equipment and gear. And Rick's team had no trouble killing the walkers. They only ran into problems when living people actively sabotaged the prison.

Plus they've got all sorts of military grade equipment and the nerd even made his bite-proof suit

Maggie told them they were at the prison and said they had 10 people.

The walkers are *only* a problem when you aren't prepared for them
 
2012-11-26 11:06:56 AM  

Marisyana: You'll all be dorking out about another show this time next year. Read a book and imagine your own show.


2/10.
 
2012-11-26 11:11:23 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Broktun: Fark_Guy_Rob: The Governor and his well trained armed goons (the ones that took out the army guys) are all impressed that the other group cleared out a prison? Why?

Merle said it couldn't be done.

Also, the gov does not know the size of the prison gang.

Yeah - but I don't get why Merle would say it couldn't be done? Merle is a lot of things; but he's not a coward or weak. He has a stronger team than Rick with more equipment and gear. And Rick's team had no trouble killing the walkers. They only ran into problems when living people actively sabotaged the prison.

Plus they've got all sorts of military grade equipment and the nerd even made his bite-proof suit

Maggie told them they were at the prison and said they had 10 people.

The walkers are *only* a problem when you aren't prepared for them


I think it's also a matter of need. When Rick's group found the prison, they were wandering the countryside. Clearing out the prison in order to have a proper camp was well worth it.

The Woodbury crew had a well-secured town they could stay in. Risking their lives clearing walkers out of a dark maze of corridors in a prison probably seemed too risky to be worth it.
 
2012-11-26 11:15:54 AM  

Straelbora: Marisyana: You'll all be dorking out about another show this time next year. Read a book and imagine your own show.

2/10.


I'm currently finishing up Stephen King's "Cell". Its a nice take on the zombie / survival horror genre. I hear they're woking on a movie adaption. John Cusack was announced for the lead role on Halloween.
 
2012-11-26 11:15:55 AM  

Broktun: BizarreMan: Broktun: Merle said it couldn't be done.

Also, the gov does not know the size of the prison gang.

Maggie told them they had 10 people.

Does he trust what Maggie would say when Merle said it couldn't be done?


A reasonable arguement can be made that Merle is telling the truth that it could not be done... given his reasonably low critical thinking skills precluding him from thinking about a quick strike to get between the wires and stabbing the walkers through the protecting fence.
 
2012-11-26 11:18:14 AM  

IronTom: It must be hard not to hit with the bayonethand

Not sure what the bayonet to the lip is supposed to do, it can't be fun though.


I thought it was under his nose- threatening to cut it off. Plus, that's super sensitive.
 
2012-11-26 11:19:00 AM  

Popcorn Johnny: Andrea sure has a great ass.


Butterface.

/michonne's is better too
 
2012-11-26 11:21:26 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: geom_00: THIS SHOW NEEDS TO BE ON HBO!!!

Joffrey needs to stick a candlestick up his ass.


Read an interview about that scene. They filmed more, where it's obvious that she uses the scepter to beat the other prostitute, not rape her with it. The actors involved were surprised that it was interpreted that way.
 
2012-11-26 11:23:47 AM  

Straelbora: OtherLittleGuy: geom_00: THIS SHOW NEEDS TO BE ON HBO!!!

Joffrey needs to stick a candlestick up his ass.

Read an interview about that scene. They filmed more, where it's obvious that she uses the scepter to beat the other prostitute, not rape her with it. The actors involved were surprised that it was interpreted that way.


I thought it was pretty obvious as it aired. When they initially showed the scepter, I was dreading where they were going with the scene. Then they made it very clear that Joffrey was asking her to use it to hit the other girl. It wasn't really ambiguous.
 
2012-11-26 11:24:57 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Yeah - but I don't get why Merle would say it couldn't be done? Merle is a lot of things; but he's not a coward or weak.


Yeah, Merle is a lot of things, and not among those is educated or particularly creative. Merle's muscle, not brains or charisma. When Merle said clearing out a prison wasn't possible, he was probably being honest -- at the time, he had no reason to lie or attempt to manipulate (not knowing where the Atlanta survivors were or if they were still alive, especially Daryl), effectively ruling out the circumstance in which Merle shows any true cunning. It's much more likely Merle wasn't able to figure out a way to clear the prison out that would make taking it worth it.
 
2012-11-26 11:26:44 AM  
I really missed a lot of the newest ep. I usually pick up on the small things but reading this thread I missed a lot. Granted my 9 month old daughter had one of those nights where she sleept only in half hour increments so I had to jump and get her twice while watching. I guess I will be watching it again tonight.
 
2012-11-26 11:29:58 AM  

that bosnian sniper: Fark_Guy_Rob: Yeah - but I don't get why Merle would say it couldn't be done? Merle is a lot of things; but he's not a coward or weak.

Yeah, Merle is a lot of things, and not among those is educated or particularly creative. Merle's muscle, not brains or charisma. When Merle said clearing out a prison wasn't possible, he was probably being honest -- at the time, he had no reason to lie or attempt to manipulate (not knowing where the Atlanta survivors were or if they were still alive, especially Daryl), effectively ruling out the circumstance in which Merle shows any true cunning. It's much more likely Merle wasn't able to figure out a way to clear the prison out that would make taking it worth it.


I would agree with this assessment. Also, the Governor and Merle are under the assumption that people don't wander into the Red Zone and live.
 
2012-11-26 11:36:02 AM  
www.seldomusedreserve.com
 
2012-11-26 11:44:49 AM  

that bosnian sniper: Fark_Guy_Rob: Yeah - but I don't get why Merle would say it couldn't be done? Merle is a lot of things; but he's not a coward or weak.

Yeah, Merle is a lot of things, and not among those is educated or particularly creative. Merle's muscle, not brains or charisma. When Merle said clearing out a prison wasn't possible, he was probably being honest -- at the time, he had no reason to lie or attempt to manipulate (not knowing where the Atlanta survivors were or if they were still alive, especially Daryl), effectively ruling out the circumstance in which Merle shows any true cunning. It's much more likely Merle wasn't able to figure out a way to clear the prison out that would make taking it worth it.


Merle is a survivor. I agree that he's not a coward, but look how he retreated when he went after Michonne in the woods. He knew that she posed a distinct threat after she took out the rest of his crew, so much that he killed one of his own when he refused to retreat and lie to the governor about what happened. Merle probably understood (or overestimated) the risk of taking the prison, and didn't want to chance dying. So yeah, I agree that he wasn't able to figure out a good way to clear it without a large risk to himself.
 
2012-11-26 11:46:10 AM  
my impression from the show is that the people in woodbury, including the governor have no idea how to actually survive in the outside world, thats why they were surprised that the jail got cleared out, thats why they were surprised that glen broke free and killed that walker. they know they're up against some badasses
 
2012-11-26 11:49:43 AM  

gittlebass: my impression from the show is that the people in woodbury, including the governor have no idea how to actually survive in the outside world, thats why they were surprised that the jail got cleared out, thats why they were surprised that glen broke free and killed that walker. they know they're up against some badasses


This. They've been living without a secure camp for 8 months. They've hardened.
 
2012-11-26 11:55:54 AM  

ExperianScaresCthulhu: Especially since... the same consideration was not given for Michonne. The number of threads out in internet land talking about 'I sure hope they don't show Michonne getting rape' were practically non-existent. The number of threads rubbing hands with glee about how possibly graphic Michonne's rape was going to be, however, ....


but white girl could be raped?


I want to tell you a story. I'm going to ask you all to close your eyes while I tell you the story. I want you to listen to me. I want you to listen to yourselves. Go ahead. Close your eyes, please. This is a story about a wman walking home from the grocery store one sunny afternoon. I want you to picture this woman.

Suddenly a truck races up. Two men jump out and grab her. One has a long, sharp knife taped to his stump of an arm. They drag her into a nearby town and they tie her up and they rip her clothes from her body. Now one climbs on. Now he's raping her, shattering everything innocent and pure with a vicious thrust in a fog of drunken breath and sweat. And when they're done, after they've killed her womb, murdered any chance for her to have children, to have life beyond her own, they decide to use her for target practice. They start throwing full beer cans at her. They throw them so hard that it tears the flesh all the way to her bones. Then they urinate on her.

Now comes the hanging. They have a rope. They tie a noose. Imagine the noose going tight around her neck and with a sudden blinding jerk she's pulled into the air and her feet and legs go kicking. They don't find the ground. The hanging branch isn't strong enough. It snaps and she falls back to the earth. So they pick her up, throw her in the back of the truck and drive out to the edge of town. Pitch her over the wall. And she drops some thirty feet down to the creek bottom below. Can you see her? Her raped, beaten, broken body soaked in their urine, soaked in their semen, soaked in her blood, left to die. Can you see her? I want you to picture that woman. Now imagine she's Maggie.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-26 11:56:21 AM  

NeoCortex42: Fark_Guy_Rob: Broktun: Fark_Guy_Rob: The Governor and his well trained armed goons (the ones that took out the army guys) are all impressed that the other group cleared out a prison? Why?

Merle said it couldn't be done.

Also, the gov does not know the size of the prison gang.

Yeah - but I don't get why Merle would say it couldn't be done? Merle is a lot of things; but he's not a coward or weak. He has a stronger team than Rick with more equipment and gear. And Rick's team had no trouble killing the walkers. They only ran into problems when living people actively sabotaged the prison.

Plus they've got all sorts of military grade equipment and the nerd even made his bite-proof suit

Maggie told them they were at the prison and said they had 10 people.

The walkers are *only* a problem when you aren't prepared for them

I think it's also a matter of need. When Rick's group found the prison, they were wandering the countryside. Clearing out the prison in order to have a proper camp was well worth it.

The Woodbury crew had a well-secured town they could stay in. Risking their lives clearing walkers out of a dark maze of corridors in a prison probably seemed too risky to be worth it.


My thoughts exactly. Last week's episode showed Merle to be incredibly sensible. Michonne had killed 2 of his guys & fled into the Red Zone. I fully expected Merle to kick the surviving kid's ass in gear and head on after her. Instead, he quickly explained it was getting dark, she was wounded, and heading into the middle of a dense zombie infestation. They had 2 guys, low ammo, and no reason to expect she'd survive. Pack it in, show's over. That was impressively logical for him and not entirely out of character--maybe prolonged exposure to The Governor drove some smarts into him. Then he shot the kid and reinforced the fact that he's a crazed redneck, so it was all good.

Anyway, Merle was apparently the only one who saw the prison. We can assume that Woodbury was already well-established at that time, so Merle made a tactical decision--why waste the time, ammo, and manpower when they already had a good set up? There's what--70 people in Woodbury? How would they even hold both the prison and Woodbury with so few people? And he's obviously not above lying to the Governor, so could have exaggerated how overrun it was. Now The Governor wants it just because someone else has it.
 
2012-11-26 12:01:22 PM  
anyone else see tyreese coming off the wall at the end?
 
2012-11-26 12:03:47 PM  

that bosnian sniper: Fark_Guy_Rob: Yeah - but I don't get why Merle would say it couldn't be done? Merle is a lot of things; but he's not a coward or weak.

Yeah, Merle is a lot of things, and not among those is educated or particularly creative. Merle's muscle, not brains or charisma. When Merle said clearing out a prison wasn't possible, he was probably being honest -- at the time, he had no reason to lie or attempt to manipulate (not knowing where the Atlanta survivors were or if they were still alive, especially Daryl), effectively ruling out the circumstance in which Merle shows any true cunning. It's much more likely Merle wasn't able to figure out a way to clear the prison out that would make taking it worth it.


Don't forget that Merle said that the Atlanta group had Darryl "at its core", which is how he figures they were able to clear the prison. He figures that since he couldn't come up with a plan, his little brother must have (because, after all, Merle taught him everything he knew).

This is a also a good set-up for the next episode. Because Merle thinks Rick's just a dumb-ass hick cop, The Governor's going to underestimate him.
 
2012-11-26 12:10:00 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: The Governor and his well trained armed goons (the ones that took out the army guys) are all impressed that the other group cleared out a prison? Why?


I think it's supposed to set up the other group (Rick's people) as a major threat that's residing right in Woodbury's own backyard, and that the Governor needs to emphasize this to motivate his people into attacking the prison. How else can you get an otherwise complacent group of 75 people to leave the comfort of their own home to enter the Red Zone and launch a counterattack? Regular Woodbury townsfolk do not know about Glenn and Maggie being captured, and therefore would not know why Rick's group is attacking them first.

And I have to agree with another poster who said the Red Zone is probably a propaganda perpetuated by the Governor to keep the Woodbury people in line. This wasn't in the comics, but might be an added-on plot device to show why there has not been any real interaction between Woodbury and the prison until now.
 
2012-11-26 12:10:45 PM  

Celerian: T.M.S.: BizarreMan: Clean out a cell block at a time, keep the gates closed behind you.

It's especially easy when you live in a magic prison where none of the doors are electronic and nearly all of them don't lock anyway.

Not that it matters much. In last weeks episode Daryl deliberately chose to move past living walkers in a room with the door actually ajar so he could come back and "kill them later". He did not seem to think getting caught in a crunch between zombies in front and behind was anything to be concerned with.

He also noticed that they didn't seem to be capable of moving the door much, so maybe he figured whatever was in there was weak enough to not be a threat. And when it came down to it, wasn't that the same room that Carol was found in? Sure, it was lazy writing, and pretty stupid not to cover his back, but I can see why they would have wanted to avoid the reveal until the end of the episode.


Yes. It was unbelievably lazy writing. But not nearly as contrived as Daryl sharing how his mom died with Carl. That was ridiculous.
 
2012-11-26 12:12:07 PM  

brigid_fitch: NeoCortex42: Fark_Guy_Rob: Broktun: Fark_Guy_Rob: The Governor and his well trained armed goons (the ones that took out the army guys) are all impressed that the other group cleared out a prison? Why?

Merle said it couldn't be done.

Also, the gov does not know the size of the prison gang.

Yeah - but I don't get why Merle would say it couldn't be done? Merle is a lot of things; but he's not a coward or weak. He has a stronger team than Rick with more equipment and gear. And Rick's team had no trouble killing the walkers. They only ran into problems when living people actively sabotaged the prison.

Plus they've got all sorts of military grade equipment and the nerd even made his bite-proof suit

Maggie told them they were at the prison and said they had 10 people.

The walkers are *only* a problem when you aren't prepared for them

I think it's also a matter of need. When Rick's group found the prison, they were wandering the countryside. Clearing out the prison in order to have a proper camp was well worth it.

The Woodbury crew had a well-secured town they could stay in. Risking their lives clearing walkers out of a dark maze of corridors in a prison probably seemed too risky to be worth it.

My thoughts exactly. Last week's episode showed Merle to be incredibly sensible. Michonne had killed 2 of his guys & fled into the Red Zone. I fully expected Merle to kick the surviving kid's ass in gear and head on after her. Instead, he quickly explained it was getting dark, she was wounded, and heading into the middle of a dense zombie infestation. They had 2 guys, low ammo, and no reason to expect she'd survive. Pack it in, show's over. That was impressively logical for him and not entirely out of character--maybe prolonged exposure to The Governor drove some smarts into him. Then he shot the kid and reinforced the fact that he's a crazed redneck, so it was all good.

Anyway, Merle was apparently the only one who saw the prison. We can assume that Woodbu ...


Exactly this.

It was dangerous for the group to attempt to take it. As it was Rick barely got inside to close the gate and into the tower, it used up lots of ammunition, and the gunfire drew more zombies to it from outside.

Merle was looking at a prison that had been completely overrun with LOTS of zombies, so its unknown if the prison can even still be made secure. He is not one to willingly risk his neck with long odds as shown by his abandoning the chase of Michonne. And, they have a safe, large, secure hold in Woodbury already set up and successfully running.

In his mind, what is the point of adding in all the risk for something that may not even be an asset (if one of the fences is down, whats the point?

He shouldn't have said it wasn't possible, if he wanted to be accurate. He should have said it wasn't worth the resources to do it given their current set up.

Heck, the only reason it was worth all the effort and risk for Rick's group was because they HAD no permanent shelter. They were constantly on the run for months.
 
2012-11-26 12:14:51 PM  
lets put it this way. woodbury has what, a couple of guys with guns, an archer who's a terrible shot and people who have been trained to not worry about the walkers (arena fights). They kidnap glen and glen turns out to be more badass than almost all their guys so im sure they think theres 10 glens out there, they know michonne is out there, daryls brother who im sure the governor is worried about and then more unknowns that took out hundreds of walkers merle said couldnt be done. This is why they're scared and should be
 
2012-11-26 12:15:23 PM  

Tencolin: Merle is a survivor. I agree that he's not a coward, but look how he retreated when he went after Michonne in the woods. He knew that she posed a distinct threat after she took out the rest of his crew, so much that he killed one of his own when he refused to retreat and lie to the governor about what happened. Merle probably understood (or overestimated) the risk of taking the prison, and didn't want to chance dying. So yeah, I agree that he wasn't able to figure out a good way to clear it without a large risk to himself.


I think letting Michonne go served three purposes - one, it links the prison to Woodbury by having Michonne show the group where the town is located, two, it might set up a plot later on where the Governor might have to turn on Merle for lying to him, and three, it shows that Merle is not really a Kool-Aid drinker to The Governor's Jim Jones. So I don't think it says anything about how pragmatic Merle is as much as it just helps to advance the story quicker and set up the climax.
 
2012-11-26 12:16:44 PM  

T.M.S.: Celerian: T.M.S.: BizarreMan: Clean out a cell block at a time, keep the gates closed behind you.

It's especially easy when you live in a magic prison where none of the doors are electronic and nearly all of them don't lock anyway.

Not that it matters much. In last weeks episode Daryl deliberately chose to move past living walkers in a room with the door actually ajar so he could come back and "kill them later". He did not seem to think getting caught in a crunch between zombies in front and behind was anything to be concerned with.

He also noticed that they didn't seem to be capable of moving the door much, so maybe he figured whatever was in there was weak enough to not be a threat. And when it came down to it, wasn't that the same room that Carol was found in? Sure, it was lazy writing, and pretty stupid not to cover his back, but I can see why they would have wanted to avoid the reveal until the end of the episode.

Yes. It was unbelievably lazy writing. But not nearly as contrived as Daryl sharing how his mom died with Carl. That was ridiculous.


i dont think it was the same room carol was in, they walked pretty far and told a bunch of stories before they got attacked by the walker with carols knife in its neck
 
2012-11-26 12:17:29 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul:
Now imagine it's Maggie.

i.qkme.me

 
2012-11-26 12:17:47 PM  

The Banana Thug: Fark_Guy_Rob: The Governor and his well trained armed goons (the ones that took out the army guys) are all impressed that the other group cleared out a prison? Why?

I think it's supposed to set up the other group (Rick's people) as a major threat that's residing right in Woodbury's own backyard, and that the Governor needs to emphasize this to motivate his people into attacking the prison. How else can you get an otherwise complacent group of 75 people to leave the comfort of their own home to enter the Red Zone and launch a counterattack? Regular Woodbury townsfolk do not know about Glenn and Maggie being captured, and therefore would not know why Rick's group is attacking them first.

And I have to agree with another poster who said the Red Zone is probably a propaganda perpetuated by the Governor to keep the Woodbury people in line. This wasn't in the comics, but might be an added-on plot device to show why there has not been any real interaction between Woodbury and the prison until now.


I don't think the Red Zone is that much propaganda given how quickly the group ran into problems in the woods. They were on the run for 8 months and were still spooked by just how many zombies suddenly came upon them.

I was thinking it was also a device similar to the monster in "The Village;" in that they just talked about it to keep people afraid and to stay in town. But it really doesn't fit with the rest of woodbury. Just look at the gladiator matches. The regular townsfolk are being desensitized and almost counter-prepared for dealing with any zombies when they watch those.

No, I think the Red Zone thing DOES instill fear in people, but rightly so, there are obviously a large amount of zombies milling about within it.
 
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