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(HelenaIR.com)   Just so we're clear: While it is legal to burn the US flag, it is not legal to burn your neighbor's US flag (Update: Now with working link)   (helenair.com) divider line 75
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5150 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Nov 2012 at 12:02 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-25 01:41:04 PM

The One True TheDavid: Coco LaFemme:

Coco LaFemme: While it's legal to burn a U. S. flag, it is not legal to steal someone else's flag and burn it. That's called theft. Buying your own flag and setting it ablaze is perfectly fine, if that's what you want to do.

It's not legal to burn a US flag in Montana: FTA: "Lowry was originally charged with a felony charge of desecrating the flag and misdemeanor counts of negligent arson and criminal mischief."

To quote the entire Montana law:

45-8-215. Desecration of flags. (1) In this section, the term "flag" means anything that is or purports to be the official flag of the United States, the United States shield, the United States coat of arms, the Montana state flag, or a copy, picture, or representation of any of the described articles. [emphasis mine]
(2) A person commits the offense of desecration of flags if the person purposely or knowingly:
(a) publicly mutilates, defiles, or casts contempt upon the flag;
(b) places on or attaches to the flag any work, mark, design, or advertisement not properly a part of the flag or exposes to public view a flag so altered;
(c) manufactures or exposes to public view an article of merchandise or a wrapper or receptacle for merchandise upon which the flag is depicted; or
(d) uses the flag for commercial advertising purposes.
(3) A person convicted of the offense of desecration of flags shall be imprisoned in the state prison for any term not to exceed 10 years or be fined an amount not to exceed $50,000, or both.
(4) This section does not apply to flags depicted on written or printed documents or periodicals or on stationery, ornaments, pictures, or jewelry if there are not unauthorized words or designs on the flags and if the flag is not connected with any advertisement. 


Montana can say whatever Montana likes, but SCOTUS ruled that flag burning is a valid expression of one's 1st amendment rights. If this person so chooses, they'd have a valid case for appeal.
 
2012-11-25 01:42:17 PM

The One True TheDavid: Coco LaFemme:

Coco LaFemme: While it's legal to burn a U. S. flag, it is not legal to steal someone else's flag and burn it. That's called theft. Buying your own flag and setting it ablaze is perfectly fine, if that's what you want to do.

It's not legal to burn a US flag in Montana: FTA: "Lowry was originally charged with a felony charge of desecrating the flag and misdemeanor counts of negligent arson and criminal mischief."

To quote the entire Montana law:

45-8-215. Desecration of flags. (1) In this section, the term "flag" means anything that is or purports to be the official flag of the United States, the United States shield, the United States coat of arms, the Montana state flag, or a copy, picture, or representation of any of the described articles. [emphasis mine]
(2) A person commits the offense of desecration of flags if the person purposely or knowingly:
(a) publicly mutilates, defiles, or casts contempt upon the flag;
(b) places on or attaches to the flag any work, mark, design, or advertisement not properly a part of the flag or exposes to public view a flag so altered;
(c) manufactures or exposes to public view an article of merchandise or a wrapper or receptacle for merchandise upon which the flag is depicted; or
(d) uses the flag for commercial advertising purposes.
(3) A person convicted of the offense of desecration of flags shall be imprisoned in the state prison for any term not to exceed 10 years or be fined an amount not to exceed $50,000, or both.
(4) This section does not apply to flags depicted on written or printed documents or periodicals or on stationery, ornaments, pictures, or jewelry if there are not unauthorized words or designs on the flags and if the flag is not connected with any advertisement. 


So according to this law the flag is a religious object and the proper salute is to get on all fours and rub our faces into the dirt like the Muslims do to their deity. And as Abrahamic theol ...


why do you hate America?
 
2012-11-25 01:44:04 PM

Ima4nic8or: it is utterly insane how invasive and socialist our government is becoming.


I do not think that word means what you think it means.
 
2012-11-25 01:47:18 PM

The One True TheDavid: Coco LaFemme:

Coco LaFemme: While it's legal to burn a U. S. flag, it is not legal to steal someone else's flag and burn it. That's called theft. Buying your own flag and setting it ablaze is perfectly fine, if that's what you want to do.

It's not legal to burn a US flag in Montana: FTA: "Lowry was originally charged with a felony charge of desecrating the flag and misdemeanor counts of negligent arson and criminal mischief."

To quote the entire Montana law:

45-8-215. Desecration of flags. (1) In this section, the term "flag" means anything that is or purports to be the official flag of the United States, the United States shield, the United States coat of arms, the Montana state flag, or a copy, picture, or representation of any of the described articles. [emphasis mine]
(2) A person commits the offense of desecration of flags if the person purposely or knowingly:
(a) publicly mutilates, defiles, or casts contempt upon the flag;
(b) places on or attaches to the flag any work, mark, design, or advertisement not properly a part of the flag or exposes to public view a flag so altered;
(c) manufactures or exposes to public view an article of merchandise or a wrapper or receptacle for merchandise upon which the flag is depicted; or
(d) uses the flag for commercial advertising purposes.
(3) A person convicted of the offense of desecration of flags shall be imprisoned in the state prison for any term not to exceed 10 years or be fined an amount not to exceed $50,000, or both.
(4) This section does not apply to flags depicted on written or printed documents or periodicals or on stationery, ornaments, pictures, or jewelry if there are not unauthorized words or designs on the flags and if the flag is not connected with any advertisement. 


So according to this law the flag is a religious object and the proper salute is to get on all fours and rub our faces into the dirt like the Muslims do to their deity. And as Abrahamic theol ...


Texas v. Johnson declared such state laws unconstitutional. My only problem with the 5-4 decision is that it was so close.
 
2012-11-25 01:48:47 PM

whither_apophis: Beemer: "I worship that flag," Bailey said at that original hearing. "I put my life on it.

And that is the difference between loving your country the way a three-year-old loves his mommy, and loving your country like an adult that acknowledges flaws and works to form a more perfect union.

What if I love the USA like I love subby's mom?

/hah subby's mom meme ftw!
// :-|


Then you're going to have a full schedule. Get started!
 
2012-11-25 01:49:37 PM

neoheathen: Dude is 6'6" and has survived being shot through both lungs an the heart by his ex-wife. Sounds pretty badass to me.


So he's 50 with two damaged lungs and a weak heart? Yep. Sounds like a real terror. People should quake in their motherfarking boots.
 
2012-11-25 01:55:58 PM

Ima4nic8or: Farked page.

... it is utterly insane how invasive and socialist our government is becoming.


Glad to see folks feeding the troll. They're having trouble coming down from the asshole orgy that is election season; nice of y'all to help 'em wean off the piss and vinegar slowly.
 
2012-11-25 01:58:21 PM

ZAZ: For your entertainment, Texas v. Johnson. The Supreme Court voted 5-4 to allow flag burning as a legal form of protest.


Yep. Though if the guy stole someone else's flag to burn it, that's still theft and arson.
 
2012-11-25 02:04:48 PM

Millennium: ZAZ: For your entertainment, Texas v. Johnson. The Supreme Court voted 5-4 to allow flag burning as a legal form of protest.

Yep. Though if the guy stole someone else's flag to burn it, that's still theft and arson.


Yup, and Montana should feel free to smack him around for those. But the flag burning charge is utterly ridiculous.
 
2012-11-25 02:06:07 PM
You can burn your flag for all I care, but don't be a dick and take someone else's. You wouldn't like it if I burned your shiat in protest, would you?
 
2012-11-25 02:32:35 PM

WizardofToast: You can burn your flag for all I care, but don't be a dick and take someone else's. You wouldn't like it if I burned your shiat in protest, would you?


Would you burn my ex-husband's shiat in protest?
 
2012-11-25 02:41:53 PM
i flew the flag every day for some 15 years. then george bush became president. no more flag at my house.
 
2012-11-25 02:48:26 PM

Coco LaFemme: While it's legal to burn a U. S. flag, it is not legal to steal someone else's flag and burn it. That's called theft. Buying your own flag and setting it ablaze is perfectly fine, if that's what you want to do.


What if the flag was already on fire when I bought it?
 
2012-11-25 02:49:31 PM

WizardofToast: You can burn your flag for all I care, but don't be a dick and take someone else's. You wouldn't like it if I burned your shiat in protest, would you?


If you burned my shiat, we'd have to evacuate the entire neighborhood.
 
2012-11-25 03:02:23 PM

KrispyKritter: i flew the flag every day for some 15 years. then george bush became president. no more flag at my house.


Which makes you a crappy American.
Almost as bad as a Rebublican in my book.
 
2012-11-25 04:31:54 PM
There's a trend of right-wingnuts to fly the flag upside-down to signal distress whenever a Democrat is in the White House. The same people consider using the flag to protest right-wingnuttery to be a form of treason.

Right-wingnuts. They don't have the first idea what America is about, or why. All they know is that them damn' libtards are ruining it.
 
2012-11-25 04:54:21 PM
no diddly stop burning
DIDDLY!!

images1.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-11-25 05:40:30 PM
Ah, I see alcohol was involved.
 
2012-11-25 09:33:19 PM
AssAsInAssassin:

Texas v. Johnson declared such state laws unconstitutional. My only problem with the 5-4 decision is that it was so close.

I hear you. But such laws state are still on the books and are still being enforced. My DSL connection is so slow tonight that I lack the patience to find out when Montana's flag desecration law was enacted, but in general I suspect that since Texas v. Johnson some new state laws have been passed or old laws reworded and resubmitted to get around that decision.

And as far as appealing goes, if the Montana courts up to the state Supreme Court uphold your conviction then you'll probably be out on good behavior before the SCOTUS addresses your unconstitutional imprisonment.

The solution is to favor centralism over state's rights and let SCOTUS order the state legislatures to summarily delete such laws, but good luck on that ever happening.
 
2012-11-25 09:34:22 PM

Millennium: ZAZ:

For your entertainment, Texas v. Johnson. The Supreme Court voted 5-4 to allow flag burning as a legal form of protest.

Yep. Though if the guy stole someone else's flag to burn it, that's still theft and arson.


Unfortunately.
 
2012-11-25 10:03:04 PM

Repo Man: Resident Muslim: B-b-but freedom of speech!!

I'm all for it, but it certainly doesn't extend to someone else's flag. Burn your own flag.


I'm sorry, I should have added a slashie to show that I was joking. I thought the self-righteous stuttering will get the point across.

So the moral of the story is dont express your freedom of speech on someone else's lawn.
Especially if the guy shot the trespassed, it'd be hard to find a jury that would convict.

/"I thought he was going to burn my whole house down, your honor. I feared for my life"
 
2012-11-25 11:04:49 PM

The One True TheDavid: AssAsInAssassin:

Texas v. Johnson declared such state laws unconstitutional. My only problem with the 5-4 decision is that it was so close.

I hear you. But such laws state are still on the books and are still being enforced. My DSL connection is so slow tonight that I lack the patience to find out when Montana's flag desecration law was enacted, but in general I suspect that since Texas v. Johnson some new state laws have been passed or old laws reworded and resubmitted to get around that decision.

And as far as appealing goes, if the Montana courts up to the state Supreme Court uphold your conviction then you'll probably be out on good behavior before the SCOTUS addresses your unconstitutional imprisonment.

The solution is to favor centralism over state's rights and let SCOTUS order the state legislatures to summarily delete such laws, but good luck on that ever happening.


Tell you what. Since I happen to work at the Montana legislature, I'll look it up tomorrow and get back to you.
 
2012-11-25 11:28:04 PM
I allways get a kick out of people who are against flag burning get all bent out of shape when I ask them how they are suppose to properly dispose of worn out flags without burning them
 
2012-11-25 11:34:54 PM

LOTN: Tumunga: Repo Man: Clemkadidlefark: Apparently page and flag no longer exist

I treasure a line from Trace Adkins ...

"Son, the First Amendment protects you from the government. Not from me."

Authoritarians love to make things sacred. See also Muslim reactions to Koran burnings.

So, you think the 1st Ammendment shouldn't exist? That's nice.

How the fark does your statement follow whatsoever?


Like I said, ice cream don't have bones.
 
2012-11-26 10:44:51 AM

KrispyKritter: i flew the flag every day for some 15 years. then george bush became president. no more flag at my house.


Because you're a douche? I didn't take mine down when your boy got re-elected a few weeks ago. But I love my country. That might be the difference between us.
 
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