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(SeattlePI)   Man outraged that his ex-wife would give their daughter marijuana pills to combat the effects of her chemotherapy because it turned her into a total stoner. "All she wanted to do was lay on the bed and play video games"   (seattlepi.com) divider line 243
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10482 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Nov 2012 at 10:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-25 01:09:07 PM

themindiswatching: As opposed to the chemotherapy's side effects, right?


That was my thought, also. I've only seen one person on chemo, they were pretty farked up.

Guntram Shatterhand: It sounds like a case of overprotective father meets addicted mother. The real truth actually lies in the middle here (what else is a chemotherapy patient going to do, gymnastics??), and both sides are pretty extreme. Dad's probably getting his information from AM radio and mom's probably too far gone up her own ass to listen to anybody but her biased boyfriend.


I'm not sure it's overprotective. More likely badly misinformed. Otherwise I agree with you.

mgshamster: Rat and mouse tests have shown no teratogenic effects, so I'm going with it likely isn't going to cause birth defects.

/Of course, tholidamide also didn't show any effects in rats and mice when originally tested.


Thalidomide is an odd one. IIRC it's actually safe, the evil was done by a stereoisomer that tagged along. (This is common when making such molecules, it's hard to avoid having 50% left and 50% right. Normally the other molecule is biologically inert.)

dopekitty74: It already exists. It's called Marinol, and from the reviews i've read, it either doesn't do what normal pot would do because it's a synthetic, or sometimes it farks with people's brains (usually in cases of dementia patients)


Yup, that's my understanding also--it's not as effective as the natural version. That likely means that there's another molecule in the real stuff that helps also.

There's also the issue of dosing--when you smoke it you can do a much better job of calibrating the dose to your symptoms than you can with a pill or suppository. (Yes, marinol comes in suppositories--what good is an anti-nausea pill for someone who can't keep it down?)
 
2012-11-25 01:11:52 PM

mgshamster: Weaver95: Frederick: FTFA:
"She's had up to 1.2 grams of cannabis oil in 24 hours, the rough equivalent of smoking 10 joints."

Citation?

Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

There were several questionable statements in that article.

you could make cannabis oil 1100% stronger and it wouldn't do any permanent harm. the body uses what it can, then stores the rest in fat cells. and when THOSE fill up, it flushes the leftovers.

it's literally impossible for cannabis to damage the human body.

Considering that ld50 levels exist and have been measured, I'm going to call you out on this lie.

THC is fairly safe, but no chemical is 100% harmless. At the levels most people consume, there's nothing to worry about, but there is a point where there's enough to kill you.

Weaver, you're pretty good over on the politics tab, but please don't pretend to be an expert on toxicology.



"At present it is estimated that marijuana's LD-50 is around1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.

cannabis-science.com/content/DEA%20Ruling%20Judge%20Young.pdf
 
2012-11-25 01:13:29 PM
She's a kid with farking cancer, wtf should she be doing?

/running daily marathons

//really though, mom might want to cut back her dose a bit.
 
2012-11-25 01:13:39 PM
Dad should be beaten for being an asshole, mom should be beaten for being a dipshiat hippy, and both should be shot for allowing their progeny to spell it's name "Mykayla"
 
2012-11-25 01:15:09 PM

Loren: themindiswatching: As opposed to the chemotherapy's side effects, right?

That was my thought, also. I've only seen one person on chemo, they were pretty farked up.

Guntram Shatterhand: It sounds like a case of overprotective father meets addicted mother. The real truth actually lies in the middle here (what else is a chemotherapy patient going to do, gymnastics??), and both sides are pretty extreme. Dad's probably getting his information from AM radio and mom's probably too far gone up her own ass to listen to anybody but her biased boyfriend.

I'm not sure it's overprotective. More likely badly misinformed. Otherwise I agree with you.

mgshamster: Rat and mouse tests have shown no teratogenic effects, so I'm going with it likely isn't going to cause birth defects.

/Of course, tholidamide also didn't show any effects in rats and mice when originally tested.

Thalidomide is an odd one. IIRC it's actually safe, the evil was done by a stereoisomer that tagged along. (This is common when making such molecules, it's hard to avoid having 50% left and 50% right. Normally the other molecule is biologically inert.)

dopekitty74: It already exists. It's called Marinol, and from the reviews i've read, it either doesn't do what normal pot would do because it's a synthetic, or sometimes it farks with people's brains (usually in cases of dementia patients)

Yup, that's my understanding also--it's not as effective as the natural version. That likely means that there's another molecule in the real stuff that helps also.

There's also the issue of dosing--when you smoke it you can do a much better job of calibrating the dose to your symptoms than you can with a pill or suppository. (Yes, marinol comes in suppositories--what good is an anti-nausea pill for someone who can't keep it down?)


Re: thalidomide. I mentioned earlier that the stereoisomer interconverts in vivo, so there's no getting around it. The original tests just had poor methodologies.

Re: Marinol. I know of many who prefer not to smoke pot at all, they ingest brownies or some other food item. So those would be better comparison for pills. Of course inhalation is going to work faster than ingestion, it's a more direct route to the blood stream and bypasses first pass metabolism.
 
2012-11-25 01:18:10 PM

Happy Hours: doglover: joints are not a standardized unit of measurement;

How many joints are in a lid?


Um.. Two! I roll big joints!!!
 
2012-11-25 01:18:41 PM
Marijuana is evil.
They need to use codeine like when I was a kid.
Or morphine like my great grandparents had.
 
2012-11-25 01:19:38 PM

mekki: Amberleia: I have no problem with medical marijuana when it's needed. When my mom had cancer, I actually tried to get her to try it when none of her meds could help her nausea. I'm gonna side with the dad in this case though, because, "Purchase said Mykayla's first oncologist called the marijuana use "inappropriate." She has not informed her new oncologist about the treatment."

If oncologist #1 thought it was contraindicated, and oncologist #2 isn't even aware it's being administered, who medically approved it? Her oncologist needs to be aware of every medicine she's taking.

I agree. This sounds like a case where mom thinks she knows more than the doctors. If it not been the pot use and mom had used other natural means like licorice, ginseng, dandelion, which is used in Chinese herbal medicine to treat symptoms, people would be calling her a nuts. But since it's pot, people are bending over backwards to say how safe it is completely ignoring that the child's doctors don't even know she is on it.


This. Plus if they don't want you to take Advil and Sudafed while pregnant I'm sure pot is on the list. I really missed my sinus medicine while pregnant/nursing.
 
2012-11-25 01:19:41 PM

phelixcubed: mgshamster: Weaver95: Frederick: FTFA:
"She's had up to 1.2 grams of cannabis oil in 24 hours, the rough equivalent of smoking 10 joints."

Citation?

Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

There were several questionable statements in that article.

you could make cannabis oil 1100% stronger and it wouldn't do any permanent harm. the body uses what it can, then stores the rest in fat cells. and when THOSE fill up, it flushes the leftovers.

it's literally impossible for cannabis to damage the human body.

Considering that ld50 levels exist and have been measured, I'm going to call you out on this lie.

THC is fairly safe, but no chemical is 100% harmless. At the levels most people consume, there's nothing to worry about, but there is a point where there's enough to kill you.

Weaver, you're pretty good over on the politics tab, but please don't pretend to be an expert on toxicology.


"At present it is estimated that marijuana's LD-50 is around1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.

cannabis-science.com/content/DEA%20Ruling%20Judge%20Young.pdf


What an odd unit to use for ld50. I don't think I've ever seen that before. It's usually presented in weight of chemical per body weight of organism, and there is always an organism associated with it, otherwise it's a useless statement.

I'm curious what the point of your post is. You by no means disproved anything I said.
 
2012-11-25 01:23:57 PM

Begoggle: Marijuana is evil.
They need to use codeine like when I was a kid.
Or morphine like my great grandparents had.


That's the problem with kids today. They're all hopped up on the marywanna goofballs, joy riding in their folks' car and listening to that Negro jazz music. Bring back the good old days when opioid dependence was considered a good idea.
 
ecl
2012-11-25 01:24:15 PM

buster_v: OMFG... dude. Did it ever occur to you that the reason she's laying around listless and tired is because she HAS LEUKEMIA!?

ffs


Seriously, what an asshole. If my mom HAD eaten or smoked during cancer treeatments she may have just sat around and played videogames instead of starve nearly to death from loss of appetite and generally just laying around feeling sh*tty.
 
2012-11-25 01:29:48 PM

mgshamster: dopekitty74: pciszek: red5ish: Wasn't there a study recently that showed marijuana use by young teens inhibited brain development. Because that would explain a lot of - look a cow!

This is a valid question. What, if anything, is known about the effect of THC on developing young brains? Both pro- and anti-marijuana factions are dogmatic about this sort of thing, and tend to base their statements on ideology rather than quantitative data.

Also, what is the scoop on the various derivatives and variants of THC that I read about from time to time? Supposedly there are some that have the medical benefits of THC (whatever those are supposed to be) without the recreational properties, leaving people more "functional". Perhaps one of those might be better for a child?

I expect that at some point that one of the non-recreational derivatives will become a prescription drug, and the federal government's policy will be "If you really need marijuana for medical purposes and aren't just looking to get high, OK, fine, here is your medical version."

It already exists. It's called Marinol, and from the reviews i've read, it either doesn't do what normal pot would do because it's a synthetic, or sometimes it farks with people's brains (usually in cases of dementia patients)

If you ever read or hear that it isn't the same because it's synthetic (vs the other being effective because it's natural), that's a big red flag that let's you know the person talking doesn't know what they are talking about.

Whether it's synthetic or natural has nothing to do with the effectiveness of a chemical.


There is more going on in cannabis than the THC they've synthesized and placed into the marinol pill. Its been clearly established that ingesting marinol is not an experience like smoking or eating cannabis. I'm sure you can put 2+2 together and realize that, hey, marinol may actually have significantly different effects than the traditional methods of administration. 

So the fact that you didn't take into account the complexity of going from a naturally occurring substance, clasically ingested for myriad reasons, to an isolated synthetic form of one component of said substance, is a big red flag that you don't know what you're taking about.
 
2012-11-25 01:31:15 PM

Happy Hours: doglover: joints are not a standardized unit of measurement;

How many joints are in a lid?


Two.
 
2012-11-25 01:32:17 PM
As opposed to laying in bed vomiting?
 
2012-11-25 01:33:30 PM

lerxst2112: Happy Hours: doglover: joints are not a standardized unit of measurement;

How many joints are in a lid?

Two.


What's your name, lerxst2112?

/our judges roll big joints too
 
2012-11-25 01:34:55 PM

mgshamster: phelixcubed: mgshamster: Weaver95: Frederick: FTFA:
"She's had up to 1.2 grams of cannabis oil in 24 hours, the rough equivalent of smoking 10 joints."

Citation?

Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

There were several questionable statements in that article.

you could make cannabis oil 1100% stronger and it wouldn't do any permanent harm. the body uses what it can, then stores the rest in fat cells. and when THOSE fill up, it flushes the leftovers.

it's literally impossible for cannabis to damage the human body.

Considering that ld50 levels exist and have been measured, I'm going to call you out on this lie.

THC is fairly safe, but no chemical is 100% harmless. At the levels most people consume, there's nothing to worry about, but there is a point where there's enough to kill you.

Weaver, you're pretty good over on the politics tab, but please don't pretend to be an expert on toxicology.


"At present it is estimated that marijuana's LD-50 is around1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.

cannabis-science.com/content/DEA%20Ruling%20Judge%20Young.pdf

What an odd unit to use for ld50. I don't think I've ever seen that before. It's usually presented in weight of chemical per body weight of organism, and there is always an organism associated with it, otherwise it's a useless statement.

I'm curious what the point of your post is. You by no means disproved anything I said.


From Erowid:

LD50 1270 mg/kg (male rats), 730 mg/kg (female rats) oral in sesame oil
LD50 42 mg/kg (rats) inhalation

Probably more realistic numbers than the original source I quoted you.
 
2012-11-25 01:35:39 PM

Sum Dum Gai: iheartscotch: Yeah, it's so different; I mean it's not like you are inhaling the gasses in the same manner or anything.

Why would that matter? The mode of ingestion has nothing to do with the safety of the substance ingested. That's like saying you shouldn't drink Pepsi when pregnant because drinking alcohol could harm the baby, and you're swallowing the liquids in the same manner.

Cigarettes are bad for pregnant mothers because nicotine is a teratogen. Marijuana doesn't contain nicotine.


I dunno, it's a lot safer to drink water than to breathe it.
 
2012-11-25 01:36:22 PM
Well when my buddy went to chemo, he pretty much just laid in bed and played video games or watched movies. He stayed over a couple of weekends just to get out of his parent's house, and we did not do much (which was fine by me because I could drink and he couldn't). Hell weed might have made the weekends a bit more interesting.
 
2012-11-25 01:38:00 PM

phelixcubed: mgshamster: phelixcubed: mgshamster: Weaver95: Frederick: FTFA:
"She's had up to 1.2 grams of cannabis oil in 24 hours, the rough equivalent of smoking 10 joints."

Citation?

Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

There were several questionable statements in that article.

you could make cannabis oil 1100% stronger and it wouldn't do any permanent harm. the body uses what it can, then stores the rest in fat cells. and when THOSE fill up, it flushes the leftovers.

it's literally impossible for cannabis to damage the human body.

Considering that ld50 levels exist and have been measured, I'm going to call you out on this lie.

THC is fairly safe, but no chemical is 100% harmless. At the levels most people consume, there's nothing to worry about, but there is a point where there's enough to kill you.

Weaver, you're pretty good over on the politics tab, but please don't pretend to be an expert on toxicology.


"At present it is estimated that marijuana's LD-50 is around1:20,000 or 1:40,000. In layman terms this means that in order to induce death a marijuana smoker would have to consume 20,000 to 40,000 times as much marijuana as is contained in one marijuana cigarette. NIDA-supplied marijuana cigarettes weigh approximately .9 grams. A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly 1,500 pounds of marijuana within about fifteen minutes to induce a lethal response.

cannabis-science.com/content/DEA%20Ruling%20Judge%20Young.pdf

What an odd unit to use for ld50. I don't think I've ever seen that before. It's usually presented in weight of chemical per body weight of organism, and there is always an organism associated with it, otherwise it's a useless statement.

I'm curious what the point of your post is. You by no means disproved anything I said.

From Erowid:

LD50 1270 mg/kg (male rats), 730 mg/kg (female rats) oral in sesame oil
LD50 42 mg/kg (rats) inhalation

Probably more realistic numbers than the original source I quoted you.


Erowid is an interesting source, to say the least. It's completely non-scientific; but at the same time, it has some of the most accurate collections of data that I've seen for some chemicals.

/I think you may have misread my original post.
//So far, all you've done is confirm what I said.
 
2012-11-25 01:38:25 PM

Begoggle: Marijuana is evil.
They need to use codeine like when I was a kid.
Or morphine like my great grandparents had.



Pffbt. Those two wouldn't hold a candle to the safety and efficiency of black-tar heroin, like the 1800s.

//it was made by Bayer, too.
 
2012-11-25 01:40:11 PM

Frederick: doglover: Frederick: Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

No. Plant leaves contain a small amount of oil along with many other things like cellulose and chlorophyll. The oil will always be more concentrated.

Look at menthol. It literally burns your eyes. Meanwhile you eat a whole stalk of mint and it won't even tickle your nose.

Hot peppers like Habenero are painful, but fun to eat. Pure pepper oil is used by the police to drop criminals.

Oil, how the hell does it work.

Thats a confusing reply; you say "no", and then go on to explain "yes". Also, for what its worth joints are rolled from the fruit (buds) of the plant -the leafs are discarded.


You obviously don't cook with cannabis.

/Smoke the bud
//Eat the rest.
 
2012-11-25 01:41:10 PM

mgshamster: Weaver95: Frederick: FTFA:
"She's had up to 1.2 grams of cannabis oil in 24 hours, the rough equivalent of smoking 10 joints."

Citation?

Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

There were several questionable statements in that article.

you could make cannabis oil 1100% stronger and it wouldn't do any permanent harm. the body uses what it can, then stores the rest in fat cells. and when THOSE fill up, it flushes the leftovers.

it's literally impossible for cannabis to damage the human body.

Considering that ld50 levels exist and have been measured, I'm going to call you out on this lie.

THC is fairly safe, but no chemical is 100% harmless. At the levels most people consume, there's nothing to worry about, but there is a point where there's enough to kill you.

Weaver, you're pretty good over on the politics tab, but please don't pretend to be an expert on toxicology.


I lived in Colorado for awhile and knew plenty of stoners. Pot may not be dangerous physically but my general impression is that long term, heavy pot users were prone to psychological issues and personality disorders. For example, many of them seem to have serious financial problems, and many of them are almost compulsive liars. This could come from a lifetime of hiding the extent of your drug use from friends, family and coworkers. My feeling is that casual pot use is fine, but if you're spending the majority of your life high it's going to affect your decision making, the friends you keep, your work, everything, and not always in a good way. 

I can understand giving a child a reasonable dose to control medical symptoms but keeping a young child high for weeks on end is not healthy, could affect her mental development and in my opinion is a form of abuse.
 
2012-11-25 01:43:07 PM

Night2o1: mgshamster: dopekitty74: pciszek: red5ish: Wasn't there a study recently that showed marijuana use by young teens inhibited brain development. Because that would explain a lot of - look a cow!

This is a valid question. What, if anything, is known about the effect of THC on developing young brains? Both pro- and anti-marijuana factions are dogmatic about this sort of thing, and tend to base their statements on ideology rather than quantitative data.

Also, what is the scoop on the various derivatives and variants of THC that I read about from time to time? Supposedly there are some that have the medical benefits of THC (whatever those are supposed to be) without the recreational properties, leaving people more "functional". Perhaps one of those might be better for a child?

I expect that at some point that one of the non-recreational derivatives will become a prescription drug, and the federal government's policy will be "If you really need marijuana for medical purposes and aren't just looking to get high, OK, fine, here is your medical version."

It already exists. It's called Marinol, and from the reviews i've read, it either doesn't do what normal pot would do because it's a synthetic, or sometimes it farks with people's brains (usually in cases of dementia patients)

If you ever read or hear that it isn't the same because it's synthetic (vs the other being effective because it's natural), that's a big red flag that let's you know the person talking doesn't know what they are talking about.

Whether it's synthetic or natural has nothing to do with the effectiveness of a chemical.

There is more going on in cannabis than the THC they've synthesized and placed into the marinol pill. Its been clearly established that ingesting marinol is not an experience like smoking or eating cannabis. I'm sure you can put 2+2 together and realize that, hey, marinol may actually have significantly different effects than the traditional methods of administration. 

So the fact that you didn't take into account the complexity of going from a naturally occurring substance, clasically ingested for myriad reasons, to an isolated synthetic form of one component of said substance, is a big red flag that you don't know what you're taking about.


Of course there's more going on, and that's exactly the point. Mj has more than one type of cannibonoid, compared to marinol's 99.9% delta-9-thc. And earlier I did talk about the difference between routes of exposure. That's where the difference lies; not with synthetic vs natural. Where the chemicals are produced has no effect.

But there are people who honestly believe that just because something is made in a lab, it's automatically either less effective medically and/or more dangerous toxicologically.

/I'm probably the only actual toxicologist in this thread.
//Anyone else out there?
 
2012-11-25 01:44:12 PM

JBLars: lid


UpTheIrons66: Happy Hours: doglover: joints are not a standardized unit of measurement;

How many joints are in a lid?

Um.. Two! I roll big joints!!!


Seriously? It took that long for someone to get the answer right?

/Fark, I am disappoint.
 
2012-11-25 01:46:19 PM

Weaver95: netweavr:
That's a silly assertion. There is an LD50 for every substance, hell, enough water will kill a person.

do you know what sort of levels we're talking about here? cannabis is, for all practical purposes, harmless. I suppose that if you strapped someone down and force fed them pot brownies for a month then maybe there might possibly be some adverse aftereffects...but mostly they'd just get fat from the other ingredients in the brownies.


LSD, still the safest drug on the market! You physically cant OD. You just trip hard longer....alot longer.
 
2012-11-25 01:46:46 PM
FTA:

Her mother says she gives her daughter marijuana pills to combat the effects of chemotherapy, but her father, who lives in North Dakota, worries about the effects of the drug on her brain development.

I'd be more worried about the effects of living in North Dakota on brain development.
 
2012-11-25 01:46:55 PM
Onkel Buck: My friend's son is 11 and battling a brain tumor and all he does is play video games, and thats wtihout any medical marijauna. I think kids just like to play video games

Or else video games cause leukemia and brain tumors, regardless of medical marijuana use.
 
2012-11-25 01:48:29 PM

ElBarto79: mgshamster: Weaver95: Frederick: FTFA:
"She's had up to 1.2 grams of cannabis oil in 24 hours, the rough equivalent of smoking 10 joints."

Citation?

Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

There were several questionable statements in that article.

you could make cannabis oil 1100% stronger and it wouldn't do any permanent harm. the body uses what it can, then stores the rest in fat cells. and when THOSE fill up, it flushes the leftovers.

it's literally impossible for cannabis to damage the human body.

Considering that ld50 levels exist and have been measured, I'm going to call you out on this lie.

THC is fairly safe, but no chemical is 100% harmless. At the levels most people consume, there's nothing to worry about, but there is a point where there's enough to kill you.

Weaver, you're pretty good over on the politics tab, but please don't pretend to be an expert on toxicology.

I lived in Colorado for awhile and knew plenty of stoners. Pot may not be dangerous physically but my general impression is that long term, heavy pot users were prone to psychological issues and personality disorders. For example, many of them seem to have serious financial problems, and many of them are almost compulsive liars. This could come from a lifetime of hiding the extent of your drug use from friends, family and coworkers. My feeling is that casual pot use is fine, but if you're spending the majority of your life high it's going to affect your decision making, the friends you keep, your work, everything, and not always in a good way. 

I can understand giving a child a reasonable dose to control medical symptoms but keeping a young child high for weeks on end is not healthy, could affect her mental development and in my opinion is a form of abuse.


There's a causal question there. Based on your anecdote, we don't know if its the long term pot use which causes all that, or if people who are like that are simple more drawn to long term drug use than those who are not.

I've seen the question brought up for other drugs as well, but I haven't really looked into it.
 
2012-11-25 01:53:26 PM

Communist_Manifesto: ReverendJasen: citoriman: THC is definitely fairly harmless. Extrapolating the ld50 for mice would indicate that around 33 grams of pure THC would be needed to kill 50% of 150 lb humans.

So if we took several lbs of high grade Krypto, distilled every last mg of oil out of it, and assuming we have a fanciful 90% THC in this oil, we might have the nearly two cups necessary to kill someone.
Sounds like a very expensive way to kill someone. :)

FYI in CO I juts bought some CO2 Extract Oil that was 80% thc. Half a gram was $25 if I remember correctly.


Wowsers... One or two knife or pipe hits would just fark you right up....

WANT!!
 
2012-11-25 01:56:34 PM

Communist_Manifesto: WhoGAS: Grestep: I like how all the talk has been about THC. There is more the cannabis than THC. Cannabidiol (CBD) is the other big cannabinoid in it, and it has different effects than THC.

Thank you.

/Plus it's amusing watching people responding to someone claiming to be a user when the real users can see right through the bullshiat story that person's slinging.

It is funny. My favorite is when people claim dealers lace weed with other shiat. All those other drugs are wayyyyyyy more expensive than weed, and criminal drug dealers don't operate on charity.


Omg, ssooooo much this. If i've ever had laced weed, it's because *I* laced it. Did that once with a bit of coke, wasn't impressed.
 
2012-11-25 01:58:00 PM

mgshamster: ElBarto79: mgshamster: Weaver95: Frederick: FTFA:
"She's had up to 1.2 grams of cannabis oil in 24 hours, the rough equivalent of smoking 10 joints."

Citation?

Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

There were several questionable statements in that article.

you could make cannabis oil 1100% stronger and it wouldn't do any permanent harm. the body uses what it can, then stores the rest in fat cells. and when THOSE fill up, it flushes the leftovers.

it's literally impossible for cannabis to damage the human body.

Considering that ld50 levels exist and have been measured, I'm going to call you out on this lie.

THC is fairly safe, but no chemical is 100% harmless. At the levels most people consume, there's nothing to worry about, but there is a point where there's enough to kill you.

Weaver, you're pretty good over on the politics tab, but please don't pretend to be an expert on toxicology.

I lived in Colorado for awhile and knew plenty of stoners. Pot may not be dangerous physically but my general impression is that long term, heavy pot users were prone to psychological issues and personality disorders. For example, many of them seem to have serious financial problems, and many of them are almost compulsive liars. This could come from a lifetime of hiding the extent of your drug use from friends, family and coworkers. My feeling is that casual pot use is fine, but if you're spending the majority of your life high it's going to affect your decision making, the friends you keep, your work, everything, and not always in a good way. 

I can understand giving a child a reasonable dose to control medical symptoms but keeping a young child high for weeks on end is not healthy, could affect her mental development and in my opinion is a form of abuse.

There's a causal question there. Based on your anecdote, we don't know if its the long term pot use which causes all that, or if people who are like that are simple more drawn to long term ...


And I live in CO right now know some REALLY successful people who also happen to be heavy pot smokers. Neither of our anecdotes are data, t least mine doesn't sound like a tired old stereotype.
 
2012-11-25 02:01:55 PM

dopekitty74: Communist_Manifesto: WhoGAS: Grestep: I like how all the talk has been about THC. There is more the cannabis than THC. Cannabidiol (CBD) is the other big cannabinoid in it, and it has different effects than THC.

Thank you.

/Plus it's amusing watching people responding to someone claiming to be a user when the real users can see right through the bullshiat story that person's slinging.

It is funny. My favorite is when people claim dealers lace weed with other shiat. All those other drugs are wayyyyyyy more expensive than weed, and criminal drug dealers don't operate on charity.

Omg, ssooooo much this. If i've ever had laced weed, it's because *I* laced it. Did that once with a bit of coke, wasn't impressed.


I've only heard of one case where a joint was laced with something without someone's knowledge. Happened to my wife before I met her. Her asshole boyfriend laced the joint with lsd without telling her because he thought it would be funny.
 
2012-11-25 02:05:11 PM

dopekitty74: Communist_Manifesto: ReverendJasen: citoriman: THC is definitely fairly harmless. Extrapolating the ld50 for mice would indicate that around 33 grams of pure THC would be needed to kill 50% of 150 lb humans.

So if we took several lbs of high grade Krypto, distilled every last mg of oil out of it, and assuming we have a fanciful 90% THC in this oil, we might have the nearly two cups necessary to kill someone.
Sounds like a very expensive way to kill someone. :)

FYI in CO I juts bought some CO2 Extract Oil that was 80% thc. Half a gram was $25 if I remember correctly.

Wowsers... One or two knife or pipe hits would just fark you right up....

WANT!!


You probably don't live in Colorado but if you're ever here it is called Red Dragon CO2 Hash Oil and it comes in a syringe.
 
2012-11-25 02:06:01 PM

mgshamster: ElBarto79: I lived in Colorado for awhile and knew plenty of stoners. Pot may not be dangerous physically but my general impression is that long term, heavy pot users were prone to psychological issues and personality disorders. For example, many of them seem to have serious financial problems, and many of them are almost compulsive liars. This could come from a lifetime of hiding the extent of your drug use from friends, family and coworkers. My feeling is that casual pot use is fine, but if you're spending the majority of your life high it's going to affect your decision making, the friends you keep, your work, everything, and not always in a good way. 

I can understand giving a child a reasonable dose to control medical symptoms but keeping a young child high for weeks on end is not healthy, could affect her mental development and in my opinion is a form of abuse.

There's a causal question there. Based on your anecdote, we don't know if its the long term pot use which causes all that, or if people who are like that are simple more drawn to long term ...


Right, correlation does not equal causation. However some of the issues I saw clearly developed after people started smoking. Like money problems for example. Most hard core smokers start when they're in their teens, before they have the ability to take on lots of debt. I know plenty of non-smokers who feel a lot of stress about their financial problems and go to great lengths to solve them; taking on a second job, severely cutting expenses, whatever. However I know exactly zero hard core potheads who displayed a great deal of concern about their financial problems. Most of them in fact seemed to laugh about it. This is one area where I feel being perpetually high can affect your decision making.
 
2012-11-25 02:07:18 PM

mgshamster: dopekitty74: Communist_Manifesto: WhoGAS: Grestep: I like how all the talk has been about THC. There is more the cannabis than THC. Cannabidiol (CBD) is the other big cannabinoid in it, and it has different effects than THC.

Thank you.

/Plus it's amusing watching people responding to someone claiming to be a user when the real users can see right through the bullshiat story that person's slinging.

It is funny. My favorite is when people claim dealers lace weed with other shiat. All those other drugs are wayyyyyyy more expensive than weed, and criminal drug dealers don't operate on charity.

Omg, ssooooo much this. If i've ever had laced weed, it's because *I* laced it. Did that once with a bit of coke, wasn't impressed.

I've only heard of one case where a joint was laced with something without someone's knowledge. Happened to my wife before I met her. Her asshole boyfriend laced the joint with lsd without telling her because he thought it would be funny.


People who force psychedelic experiences on unsuspecting people are real assholes. That can really fark with someones mind. Not to mention that's a great way to waste lsd because any attempt to light lsd on fire would result in its immediate destruction. Even exposing lsd to light ruins it, it's a very fragile chemical.
 
2012-11-25 02:07:25 PM

Communist_Manifesto: mgshamster: ElBarto79: mgshamster: Weaver95: Frederick: FTFA:
"She's had up to 1.2 grams of cannabis oil in 24 hours, the rough equivalent of smoking 10 joints."

Citation?

Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

There were several questionable statements in that article.

you could make cannabis oil 1100% stronger and it wouldn't do any permanent harm. the body uses what it can, then stores the rest in fat cells. and when THOSE fill up, it flushes the leftovers.

it's literally impossible for cannabis to damage the human body.

Considering that ld50 levels exist and have been measured, I'm going to call you out on this lie.

THC is fairly safe, but no chemical is 100% harmless. At the levels most people consume, there's nothing to worry about, but there is a point where there's enough to kill you.

Weaver, you're pretty good over on the politics tab, but please don't pretend to be an expert on toxicology.

I lived in Colorado for awhile and knew plenty of stoners. Pot may not be dangerous physically but my general impression is that long term, heavy pot users were prone to psychological issues and personality disorders. For example, many of them seem to have serious financial problems, and many of them are almost compulsive liars. This could come from a lifetime of hiding the extent of your drug use from friends, family and coworkers. My feeling is that casual pot use is fine, but if you're spending the majority of your life high it's going to affect your decision making, the friends you keep, your work, everything, and not always in a good way. 

I can understand giving a child a reasonable dose to control medical symptoms but keeping a young child high for weeks on end is not healthy, could affect her mental development and in my opinion is a form of abuse.

There's a causal question there. Based on your anecdote, we don't know if its the long term pot use which causes all that, or if people who are like that are simple more drawn to long term ...

And I live in CO right now know some REALLY successful people who also happen to be heavy pot smokers. Neither of our anecdotes are data, t least mine doesn't sound like a tired old stereotype.


Huh? Are you claiming that my hypothesis is a tired old stereotype? It's a valid scientific question, which may have been answered (I don't know, and I'm not about to go looking using only my phone).

Yours may also be true. The point was long term use may not actually cause it; it might, but anecdotes won't answer the question.

I'm also not sure where the success part came in. I don't think anyone in this thread has suggested that pot use means one cannot be successful.
 
2012-11-25 02:09:00 PM

Communist_Manifesto: And I live in CO right now know some REALLY successful people who also happen to be heavy pot smokers. Neither of our anecdotes are data, t least mine doesn't sound like a tired old stereotype.


Things are further muddled by the inescapable fact that some proportion of under-achieving marijuana users have been impaired more by a criminal record (student loans, range of employment available...) than the drug itself. Successful heavy pot smokers are probably going to be more likely to keep it discrete and avoid law enforcement entanglements...
 
2012-11-25 02:09:26 PM
Cannabis saves lives. The father probably wants the girl to die so he can get out from under those child support and health care payments.
 
2012-11-25 02:10:00 PM

ElBarto79: mgshamster: ElBarto79: I lived in Colorado for awhile and knew plenty of stoners. Pot may not be dangerous physically but my general impression is that long term, heavy pot users were prone to psychological issues and personality disorders. For example, many of them seem to have serious financial problems, and many of them are almost compulsive liars. This could come from a lifetime of hiding the extent of your drug use from friends, family and coworkers. My feeling is that casual pot use is fine, but if you're spending the majority of your life high it's going to affect your decision making, the friends you keep, your work, everything, and not always in a good way. 

I can understand giving a child a reasonable dose to control medical symptoms but keeping a young child high for weeks on end is not healthy, could affect her mental development and in my opinion is a form of abuse.

There's a causal question there. Based on your anecdote, we don't know if its the long term pot use which causes all that, or if people who are like that are simple more drawn to long term ...

Right, correlation does not equal causation. However some of the issues I saw clearly developed after people started smoking. Like money problems for example. Most hard core smokers start when they're in their teens, before they have the ability to take on lots of debt. I know plenty of non-smokers who feel a lot of stress about their financial problems and go to great lengths to solve them; taking on a second job, severely cutting expenses, whatever. However I know exactly zero hard core potheads who displayed a great deal of concern about their financial problems. Most of them in fact seemed to laugh about it. This is one area where I feel being perpetually high can affect your decision making.


Well you just met me, I started when I was 21. I have a great job and no real financial problems. I'm able to pay all my student loan payments, my car payment, insurance, rent, etc. and I have a savings account and a 401k. I also have a small stock investing account I use to gamble on pharma stocks. Your stereotypes are weak, maybe you just associate with shiatty people.
 
2012-11-25 02:10:34 PM

ElBarto79: mgshamster: ElBarto79: I lived in Colorado for awhile and knew plenty of stoners. Pot may not be dangerous physically but my general impression is that long term, heavy pot users were prone to psychological issues and personality disorders. For example, many of them seem to have serious financial problems, and many of them are almost compulsive liars. This could come from a lifetime of hiding the extent of your drug use from friends, family and coworkers. My feeling is that casual pot use is fine, but if you're spending the majority of your life high it's going to affect your decision making, the friends you keep, your work, everything, and not always in a good way. 

I can understand giving a child a reasonable dose to control medical symptoms but keeping a young child high for weeks on end is not healthy, could affect her mental development and in my opinion is a form of abuse.

There's a causal question there. Based on your anecdote, we don't know if its the long term pot use which causes all that, or if people who are like that are simple more drawn to long term ...

Right, correlation does not equal causation. However some of the issues I saw clearly developed after people started smoking. Like money problems for example. Most hard core smokers start when they're in their teens, before they have the ability to take on lots of debt. I know plenty of non-smokers who feel a lot of stress about their financial problems and go to great lengths to solve them; taking on a second job, severely cutting expenses, whatever. However I know exactly zero hard core potheads who displayed a great deal of concern about their financial problems. Most of them in fact seemed to laugh about it. This is one area where I feel being perpetually high can affect your decision making.


That's quite a possibility. I'm not well versed in the psychology of drugs. It certainly seems to make sense.
 
2012-11-25 02:11:18 PM

mgshamster: Her asshole incredibly stupid boyfriend laced the joint with lsd without telling her because he thought it would be funny.


Immediately destroying with heat fragile molecules that I paid good money for always gives me a good laugh too.
 
2012-11-25 02:11:24 PM

mgshamster: Communist_Manifesto: mgshamster: ElBarto79: mgshamster: Weaver95: Frederick: FTFA:
"She's had up to 1.2 grams of cannabis oil in 24 hours, the rough equivalent of smoking 10 joints."

Citation?

Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

There were several questionable statements in that article.

you could make cannabis oil 1100% stronger and it wouldn't do any permanent harm. the body uses what it can, then stores the rest in fat cells. and when THOSE fill up, it flushes the leftovers.

it's literally impossible for cannabis to damage the human body.

Considering that ld50 levels exist and have been measured, I'm going to call you out on this lie.

THC is fairly safe, but no chemical is 100% harmless. At the levels most people consume, there's nothing to worry about, but there is a point where there's enough to kill you.

Weaver, you're pretty good over on the politics tab, but please don't pretend to be an expert on toxicology.

I lived in Colorado for awhile and knew plenty of stoners. Pot may not be dangerous physically but my general impression is that long term, heavy pot users were prone to psychological issues and personality disorders. For example, many of them seem to have serious financial problems, and many of them are almost compulsive liars. This could come from a lifetime of hiding the extent of your drug use from friends, family and coworkers. My feeling is that casual pot use is fine, but if you're spending the majority of your life high it's going to affect your decision making, the friends you keep, your work, everything, and not always in a good way. 

I can understand giving a child a reasonable dose to control medical symptoms but keeping a young child high for weeks on end is not healthy, could affect her mental development and in my opinion is a form of abuse.

There's a causal question there. Based on your anecdote, we don't know if its the long term pot use which causes all that, or if people who are like that ar ...


Meant to respond to elbarto, sorry I clicked the wrong post. It should be studied.
 
2012-11-25 02:11:40 PM

AndreMA: lerxst2112: Happy Hours: doglover: joints are not a standardized unit of measurement;

How many joints are in a lid?

Two.

What's your name, lerxst2112?

/our judges roll big joints too


Must be Bob :)
 
2012-11-25 02:13:22 PM

Communist_Manifesto: mgshamster: Communist_Manifesto: mgshamster: ElBarto79: mgshamster: Weaver95: Frederick: FTFA:
"She's had up to 1.2 grams of cannabis oil in 24 hours, the rough equivalent of smoking 10 joints."

Citation?

Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

There were several questionable statements in that article.

you could make cannabis oil 1100% stronger and it wouldn't do any permanent harm. the body uses what it can, then stores the rest in fat cells. and when THOSE fill up, it flushes the leftovers.

it's literally impossible for cannabis to damage the human body.

Considering that ld50 levels exist and have been measured, I'm going to call you out on this lie.

THC is fairly safe, but no chemical is 100% harmless. At the levels most people consume, there's nothing to worry about, but there is a point where there's enough to kill you.

Weaver, you're pretty good over on the politics tab, but please don't pretend to be an expert on toxicology.

I lived in Colorado for awhile and knew plenty of stoners. Pot may not be dangerous physically but my general impression is that long term, heavy pot users were prone to psychological issues and personality disorders. For example, many of them seem to have serious financial problems, and many of them are almost compulsive liars. This could come from a lifetime of hiding the extent of your drug use from friends, family and coworkers. My feeling is that casual pot use is fine, but if you're spending the majority of your life high it's going to affect your decision making, the friends you keep, your work, everything, and not always in a good way. 

I can understand giving a child a reasonable dose to control medical symptoms but keeping a young child high for weeks on end is not healthy, could affect her mental development and in my opinion is a form of abuse.

There's a causal question there. Based on your anecdote, we don't know if its the long term pot use which causes all that, or if people who are like that ar ...

Meant to respond to elbarto, sorry I clicked the wrong post. It should be studied.


Yeah, and I just realized that you weren't the op for that.
 
2012-11-25 02:15:41 PM
FTA: "The father, Jesse Comstock, said his concerns were prompted by a visit with Mykayla in August."

EABOD then DIAF!
 
2012-11-25 02:17:23 PM

mgshamster: dopekitty74: Communist_Manifesto: WhoGAS: Grestep: I like how all the talk has been about THC. There is more the cannabis than THC. Cannabidiol (CBD) is the other big cannabinoid in it, and it has different effects than THC.

Thank you.

/Plus it's amusing watching people responding to someone claiming to be a user when the real users can see right through the bullshiat story that person's slinging.

It is funny. My favorite is when people claim dealers lace weed with other shiat. All those other drugs are wayyyyyyy more expensive than weed, and criminal drug dealers don't operate on charity.

Omg, ssooooo much this. If i've ever had laced weed, it's because *I* laced it. Did that once with a bit of coke, wasn't impressed.

I've only heard of one case where a joint was laced with something without someone's knowledge. Happened to my wife before I met her. Her asshole boyfriend laced the joint with lsd without telling her because he thought it would be funny.


Laced with acid? Weird.. Acid's normally an ingestible or absorbable, never heard of smoking it....
 
2012-11-25 02:17:31 PM

Frederick: doglover: Frederick: Is the implication cannabis oil is 10x stronger than cannabis?

No. Plant leaves contain a small amount of oil along with many other things like cellulose and chlorophyll. The oil will always be more concentrated.

Look at menthol. It literally burns your eyes. Meanwhile you eat a whole stalk of mint and it won't even tickle your nose.

Hot peppers like Habenero are painful, but fun to eat. Pure pepper oil is used by the police to drop criminals.

Oil, how the hell does it work.

Thats a confusing reply; you say "no", and then go on to explain "yes". Also, for what its worth joints are rolled from the fruit (buds) of the plant -the leafs are discarded.


joints are rolled from the fruit (buds) of the plant -the leafs are discarded.


????????????????
 
2012-11-25 02:22:50 PM

dopekitty74: mgshamster: dopekitty74: Communist_Manifesto: WhoGAS: Grestep: I like how all the talk has been about THC. There is more the cannabis than THC. Cannabidiol (CBD) is the other big cannabinoid in it, and it has different effects than THC.

Thank you.

/Plus it's amusing watching people responding to someone claiming to be a user when the real users can see right through the bullshiat story that person's slinging.

It is funny. My favorite is when people claim dealers lace weed with other shiat. All those other drugs are wayyyyyyy more expensive than weed, and criminal drug dealers don't operate on charity.

Omg, ssooooo much this. If i've ever had laced weed, it's because *I* laced it. Did that once with a bit of coke, wasn't impressed.

I've only heard of one case where a joint was laced with something without someone's knowledge. Happened to my wife before I met her. Her asshole boyfriend laced the joint with lsd without telling her because he thought it would be funny.

Laced with acid? Weird.. Acid's normally an ingestible or absorbable, never heard of smoking it....


Men. My memory could be off. And I'm not about to go wake up my hungover wife to ask about her ex just to get a story right for fark.

/pretty sure it was LSD
//not so sure it was a joint
 
2012-11-25 02:23:24 PM

dopekitty74: mgshamster: dopekitty74: Communist_Manifesto: WhoGAS: Grestep: I like how all the talk has been about THC. There is more the cannabis than THC. Cannabidiol (CBD) is the other big cannabinoid in it, and it has different effects than THC.

Thank you.

/Plus it's amusing watching people responding to someone claiming to be a user when the real users can see right through the bullshiat story that person's slinging.

It is funny. My favorite is when people claim dealers lace weed with other shiat. All those other drugs are wayyyyyyy more expensive than weed, and criminal drug dealers don't operate on charity.

Omg, ssooooo much this. If i've ever had laced weed, it's because *I* laced it. Did that once with a bit of coke, wasn't impressed.

I've only heard of one case where a joint was laced with something without someone's knowledge. Happened to my wife before I met her. Her asshole boyfriend laced the joint with lsd without telling her because he thought it would be funny.

Laced with acid? Weird.. Acid's normally an ingestible or absorbable, never heard of smoking it....


I'm pretty sure it's impossible to smoke is why you've never heard of it. If you smoke something and trip it was probably DMT, PCP or Ketamine.
 
2012-11-25 02:23:58 PM

mgshamster: /pretty sure it was LSD
//not so sure it was a joint


PCP on a joint is plausible...
 
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