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(NYPost)   State-controlled Long Island Power Authority to customers: Here's your bill for the electricity you didn't have for two weeks after Sandy, because this is New York so you can go fark yourselves (for which you'll be billed, taxed and surcharged)   (nypost.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Long Island, Long Island Power Authority, New York, Public Service Commission, Jonathan Saporta  
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13664 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Nov 2012 at 1:02 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



158 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-11-24 09:11:31 PM  
No power? Fark you, pay me.
 
2012-11-24 09:19:30 PM  
We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?
 
2012-11-24 09:23:44 PM  

make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?


We just a gas bill $40 over the previous bill. An "adjustment". For what, I have no idea,
 
2012-11-24 09:31:30 PM  
So the submitted link a few hours ago from the same source with arguably better headline that has more hits and had more comments gets red, but this gets green?

/not Subbsie
 
2012-11-24 09:31:39 PM  

simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.


The state motto of New York.
 
2012-11-24 09:49:57 PM  

simplicimus: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

We just a gas bill $40 over the previous bill. An "adjustment". For what, I have no idea,


Deregulation and the glories of capitalism, citizen. Revel in the glory, for you have been blessed!
 
2012-11-24 09:54:09 PM  

Gulper Eel: simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.

The state motto of New York.


gubmint.

Had to do it. They are the ones that are billing you.
 
2012-11-24 09:55:10 PM  
FTA: ""I am not paying any of my bills, that much I promise," said Saporta. "They can put me into collections, and I'll fight them tooth-and-nail."

Sure you will - in the dark.

What part of POWER don't you understand?
 
2012-11-24 09:56:37 PM  

GAT_00: simplicimus: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

We just a gas bill $40 over the previous bill. An "adjustment". For what, I have no idea,

Deregulation and the glories of capitalism, citizen. Revel in the glory, for you have been blessed!


Based on Centerpoint's website, Natural Gas price went down fractionally from last month. So I guess I just get to revel in the glory of capitalism.
 
2012-11-24 09:57:16 PM  
The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.

And if you start using more of a commodity, you will eventually end up paying more. It's really unfair.
 
2012-11-24 10:00:27 PM  
Well, do you want electricity or not? I assure you that the power company does not have any qualms about cutting your ass off.
 
2012-11-24 10:08:13 PM  
got refunds from insurance company due to over-charging, yet they've been billing same amount ever since. not gonna name company, because like a good customer, my bill pay is there.
 
2012-11-24 10:10:06 PM  

Lsherm: Gulper Eel: simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.

The state motto of New York.

gubmint.

Had to do it. They are the ones that are billing you.


What the fark are you on? My power comes 100% from TVA and it's a county utility board that I pay for my power.
 
2012-11-24 10:13:38 PM  

tin_man: The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.



On the contrary, I'm sure it went through the roof, considering the destruction of infrastructure.

Yet they bill based on consumption, not delivery, so that's the problem of the utility company and their insurance providers, isn't it?


/I smell a troll
 
2012-11-24 10:20:03 PM  

Amos Quito: /I smell a troll


It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.
 
2012-11-24 10:30:29 PM  

Amos Quito: tin_man: The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.


On the contrary, I'm sure it went through the roof, considering the destruction of infrastructure.

Yet they bill based on consumption, not delivery, so that's the problem of the utility company and their insurance providers, isn't it?


/I smell a troll


Yes, speaking of the logistics and realities behind delivering a utility, any utility, to the end user is trolling.
 
2012-11-24 10:30:47 PM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: Gulper Eel: simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.

The state motto of New York.

gubmint.

Had to do it. They are the ones that are billing you.

What the fark are you on? My power comes 100% from TVA and it's a county utility board that I pay for my power.


The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?
 
2012-11-24 11:11:47 PM  

make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?


Remember all those employees they had who trudged from place to place, making note of the meters once a month? They've been fired, and replaced with a company that does it maybe once a quarter, but estimates your usage based on similar users in your area. It's not perfect, but, who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?
 
2012-11-24 11:32:18 PM  
I almost feel like it's nobody's fault there was a storm and everybody should be chipping in to pay for the crews working overtime to get the power back on. So, yeah, you didn't use electricity but it's costing a lot of money to get things back to normal.

Now if insurance premiums go up, causing rates to go up, THEN I think you'd have a beef.
 
2012-11-24 11:37:53 PM  

tin_man: Amos Quito: tin_man: The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.


On the contrary, I'm sure it went through the roof, considering the destruction of infrastructure.

Yet they bill based on consumption, not delivery, so that's the problem of the utility company and their insurance providers, isn't it?


/I smell a troll

Yes, speaking of the logistics and realities behind delivering a utility, any utility, to the end user is trolling.



The utility bills based on CONSUMPTION (hence the METER)

As utility failed to deliver the product to the end user, the product was not consumed.
 
2012-11-24 11:39:22 PM  

MisterTweak: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

Remember all those employees they had who trudged from place to place, making note of the meters once a month? They've been fired, and replaced with a company that does it maybe once a quarter, but estimates your usage based on similar users in your area. It's not perfect, but, who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?



Can't they outsource to China?
 
2012-11-24 11:52:55 PM  

Lsherm: The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?


My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.
 
2012-11-25 12:59:47 AM  

GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


Point of Order: Some middle-sized cities like Ames, IA and Lansing, MI do have their own power/water/sewer companies. These are usually described as being "owned" by the taxpayers. Sometimes they are for-profit regulated monopolies, sometimes simply bureaus of government.
 
2012-11-25 01:03:34 AM  

RedPhoenix122: It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.


It may be, but it needs looking into--while the Post sucks for 95% of what is does--if they can raise a stink about unfair charging practices, whether private or public or private/public 'regulated monopoly,' then more power to them.
 
2012-11-25 01:04:38 AM  

Somacandra: GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.

Point of Order: Some middle-sized cities like Ames, IA and Lansing, MI do have their own power/water/sewer companies. These are usually described as being "owned" by the taxpayers. Sometimes they are for-profit regulated monopolies, sometimes simply bureaus of government.


The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP) is the largest municipal utility in the United States, serving over four million residents.
 
2012-11-25 01:05:45 AM  
It's an estimated bill. They're not doing it manually; it's done by computer. Once the meter is read later on the bill will be corrected.

BFD.
 
2012-11-25 01:13:15 AM  
Here's my NY Post headline for this story:

ELECTROCITY!
 
2012-11-25 01:15:49 AM  
Id be more outraged but what happened is a computer spat them out and a low paid peon at the power company did his job and mailed them out.

its still wrong of course but there is no malicious intent.
 
2012-11-25 01:16:51 AM  
If they estimate your bill one month, but then take a reading the next month, it all evens out and you only pay what you owe for two months, it just wasn't accurate one month. If they estimated usage because they couldn't get out and read meters, they probably don't have a special hurricane aftermath estimation algorithm. That means you're going to get an estimated bill because they couldn't get to your meter, and it's going to be wrong because they're going to be estimating based on normal usage because they can't come up with a superstorm estimation formula on the fly. But next month when they do get back to your meter, the reading will be much lower than another estimated reading would have pegged it at. Which means this is the month your bill will be low, instead of last month when it actually would have been low.

;tldr - The total amount paid will correct itself the next chance the power company gets an actual reading. They can't get actual readings right now because of the hurricane. Their estimations algorithms aren't dynamic enough to get a post-hurricane-accurate estimated reading.

make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?


I have no idea how they can possibly get away with no actual readings at least once every six months at the bare minimum. I remember growing up we had a co-op and included the meter reading you took yourself when you paid last month's bill. It's nigh impossible to be able to cheat it because you'd have to keep fudging the numbers every month, even if you just cheat one month and now are trying to stay even. If you report the real reading even one month, all past cheats are accounted for.
 
2012-11-25 01:17:11 AM  
SOP. Welcome to reality.
 
2012-11-25 01:17:42 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: It's an estimated bill. They're not doing it manually; it's done by computer. Once the meter is read later on the bill will be corrected.


Couldn't they estimate how much you weren't using while the power was out?
 
2012-11-25 01:17:48 AM  

Somacandra: RedPhoenix122: It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.

It may be, but it needs looking into--while the Post sucks for 95% of what is does--if they can raise a stink about unfair charging practices, whether private or public or private/public 'regulated monopoly,' then more power to them.


It's not unfair practices because it will be corrected the next time there's an actual reading.
 
2012-11-25 01:18:54 AM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?

My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


Well, "power company" is a broad term. There are companies that generate the power, companies that distribute it, and companies involved in administering those two (billing, load management, etc.) In some places, one or more of those functions are run by a govenmental body, but more often, they're either a regulated or unregulated business. (full disclosure: I work in the field for a handsomely for-profit entity)

I know it absolutely horribly sucks to have no power after a bad storm, just like it doesn't help a lot when your bottom line is defined by there being large volumes of electricity being generated, delivered, and consumed. But when the lights do go out, the infrastructure actually gets really expensive - all those linemen aren't volunteers, and companies like Siemens, GE, ABB, and Bechtel aren't philanthropic organizations, they sell goods and services for large sums (the technical term is "f**king huge sacks") of money, and the guys generating the power have often committed to buy a quantity of fuel, regardless of whether they use it.

As usual, consumers don't always understand what it is they're buying, and the vendors are not very good (or motivated) to explain it. The NY Post has provided a pretty definitive example in "how to provide confusing infotainment to people who could really use some news, reporting, or analysis". Unskewed Journalism, I suppose.
 
2012-11-25 01:22:27 AM  
It's time to regulate the energy industry.
 
2012-11-25 01:23:42 AM  

Amos Quito: tin_man: The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.


On the contrary, I'm sure it went through the roof, considering the destruction of infrastructure.

Yet they bill based on consumption, not delivery, so that's the problem of the utility company and their insurance providers, isn't it?


They are self insured. No one would write a policy to cover something like Sandy, and no one would pay the premiums if there was someone stupid enough to write that policy. Which means that the cost it going to come from the ratepayers. Which means there will be no willingness to raise rates to fix the infrastructure. Which means that the next storm is going to cause more and bigger outages.
 
2012-11-25 01:24:30 AM  

RedPhoenix122: Amos Quito: /I smell a troll

It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.


The power has been off for several weeks. These people have not been able to use any electricity. They are billed based on the amount they use. This month they're being charged the regular rate when they have not used anywhere near the amount of electricity they normallly use. Sounds to me like you're saying it's ok for government to screw people like this. If it were a private company screwing customers like this and not a government owned entity, the socialists on fark would be screaming bloody murder.
 
2012-11-25 01:24:42 AM  
img1.liveinternet.ru

So we'll march day and night
By the big cooling tower
They have the plant
But we have the power
 
2012-11-25 01:24:43 AM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?

My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


Boulder, CO, is currently looking into seizing the electric infrastructure within city limits through eminent domain and municipalizing their utility. The supporters are claiming that the city will be able to run it at the same or better rates than the current utility, and they will supply more renewable energy sources than the current utility. The current utility is pretty big and has all kinds of wind and solar in CO. I don't see how Boulder thinks they can do better. They're probably going to have to pay top dollar in compensation too. The utility thinks the city's reimbursement estimates are way low, and that will have to be litigated heavily.
 
2012-11-25 01:25:03 AM  
Similar thing happened to me after Wilma blew thru S. FL. I contested the first bill I got because it was exactly the same as the previous month. They finally sent someone to read the meter (I was still w/out power when he came). He asked asked if I knew I had to power. No shiat Sherlock, the whole neighborhood is still black after a week.

I received an adjusted bill with in a few days. The next bill I got was double my normal bill, called about that one. They sent a guy guy out. He asked how many days I was w/out power. I said at least one week before the end of the last bill period and probably almost a week and a half into this period. I really didn't know because I went to a hotel for about 8 days until I knew my electric was back on. He goes back to his car, calls some one and comes back and says I'll be back to read these meters for the next 2 billing cycles, you will see and adjustment in a few days. Thanks for calling us. The adjustment came and I owed $0, then it was half of normal and back to normal the next month. So I really can't complain about FPL (Flickering Power and Lights) here in SE. FL. They did me OK.

Last year they upgraded my meter and they can somehow read it remotely.
 
2012-11-25 01:25:34 AM  

jaylectricity: I almost feel like it's nobody's fault there was a storm and everybody should be chipping in to pay for the crews working overtime to get the power back on. So, yeah, you didn't use electricity but it's costing a lot of money to get things back to normal.

Now if insurance premiums go up, causing rates to go up, THEN I think you'd have a beef.


Wait, are you saying New Yorkers should all chip in to pay to get the power back online? The same New Yorkers who have had their homes, businesses and livelihoods completely destroyed by this hurricane and no idea what they're going to do should reach into their pockets and pay the power companies repair bills for them? What about those peoples repair bills? For their destroyed homes, cars and whatever else, who is going to chip in and help them pay those bills?
 
2012-11-25 01:26:38 AM  

Lsherm: GAT_00: Lsherm: Gulper Eel: simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.

The state motto of New York.

gubmint.

Had to do it. They are the ones that are billing you.

What the fark are you on? My power comes 100% from TVA and it's a county utility board that I pay for my power.

The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?


It must have been his still that blew up causing that earthquake in Kentucky.
 
2012-11-25 01:28:58 AM  

simplicimus: No power? Fark you, pay me.


Check the sauce.
 
2012-11-25 01:30:15 AM  

GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


My current electric provider (in town) is a for profit company. We get raped by them and they raise the rates every year because they need more money.

My old electric company (just outside of town) was a rural electric co-op. The people that get service through them are the share holders but you can't actually do anything with your shares. You will however get a small cut at the end of the year when they calculate the money you have put into them, their overall profit and such. Just before we moved we received a $25 check from them for that year. Their rates were considerably lower and they didn't have all the tax and add on crap that my current power company puts on the customers.

On the co-op we were paying between $50-$85 a month for electricity, on the for-profit we are paying $155 - $220 a month for the same amount of electronics running in the house. I have some friends that are getting hit with $400 electric bills, almost as much as they are paying in rent.

Satanic_Hamster: It's an estimated bill. They're not doing it manually; it's done by computer. Once the meter is read later on the bill will be corrected.


If it is anything like my current power company then the bills WILL NOT get adjusted, I would be surprised if it isn't going to cost even more on the customers. My electric company will jack up the bills to cover the over time pay for all the technicians out in the field working on major power outages, We see it when severe storms come through or icy winters.
 
2012-11-25 01:30:44 AM  

Somacandra: GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.

Point of Order: Some middle-sized cities like Ames, IA and Lansing, MI do have their own power/water/sewer companies. These are usually described as being "owned" by the taxpayers. Sometimes they are for-profit regulated monopolies, sometimes simply bureaus of government.


Add Knoxville, Tennessee to the list. From their most recent newsletter:

"KUB, a municipal utility (not for profit), serving Knox and parts of seven adjacent counties, provides reliable electric, gas, water, and wastewater services to about 440,000 customers."
 
2012-11-25 01:31:57 AM  

make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?


That's how basically all power companies work unless you have wireless meter readings. You have two to four readings per year, and in between those, you pay on estimated usage and the difference gets made up when your next actual reading happens.
 
2012-11-25 01:32:57 AM  

PaLarkin: RedPhoenix122: Amos Quito: /I smell a troll

It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.

The power has been off for several weeks. These people have not been able to use any electricity. They are billed based on the amount they use. This month they're being charged the regular rate when they have not used anywhere near the amount of electricity they normallly use. Sounds to me like you're saying it's ok for government to screw people like this. If it were a private company screwing customers like this and not a government owned entity, the socialists on fark would be screaming bloody murder.


All accounts will be balanced the next time there's an actual reading. It's hard to get those right after a hurricane. The estimated readings are a line of code somewhere in their billing software. You can't tweak it that fast after a hurricane to tell it to account for a hurricane in its estimates for thousands of customers.
 
2012-11-25 01:33:41 AM  

PaLarkin: RedPhoenix122: Amos Quito: /I smell a troll

It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.

The power has been off for several weeks. These people have not been able to use any electricity. They are billed based on the amount they use. This month they're being charged the regular rate when they have not used anywhere near the amount of electricity they normallly use. Sounds to me like you're saying it's ok for government to screw people like this. If it were a private company screwing customers like this and not a government owned entity, the socialists on fark would be screaming bloody murder.


They will not be billed for power they did not use. When the meter actually gets read, the bill will be adjusted. It was probably impossible to read meters under the post-storm conditions. Nevertheless, monthly billing must be done.

So nobody is getting screwed.
 
2012-11-25 01:35:57 AM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?

My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


Is the TVA still around?
Might still be a publicly held for profit power.
Yup, federally owned corporation. So it is the gubermint + profit.
 
2012-11-25 01:36:09 AM  

MisterTweak: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

Remember all those employees they had who trudged from place to place, making note of the meters once a month? They've been fired, and replaced with a company that does it maybe once a quarter, but estimates your usage based on similar users in your area. It's not perfect, but, who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?


www.eastcountymagazine.orglh6.googleusercontent.com

A lot of them got replaced with digital "smart meters", with wireless links. And usually mesh networks too, where they just use enough transmit power to reach the next smart meter and-so-on until it gets to a more central communication point.

Naturally the quacks have come out to protest them, that somehow this is going to wirelessly poison people. Never mind the hundred cellphones you passed by today, there's a meter sending a brief data packet BESIDE YOUR HOUSE!!

Well they are yet another avenue for prying, looking for pot growers or something. And may be used to come up with more complex billing schemes for different pricing at hours of peak usage, which may get twisted into cellphone-plan complexity. But it's kind of an obvious thing that these meters will be used.

Somebody figured out how to hack them awhile back, BTW. Found there's an optical link hooked straight up to the controller's programming pins, that's the lowest level of interface and it can't protect itself against getting reflashed from there. No digital signing or anything. Doesn't require the meter to be physically opened, either.
 
2012-11-25 01:39:16 AM  

Tenatra: If it is anything like my current power company then the bills WILL NOT get adjusted, I would be surprised if it isn't going to cost even more on the customers. My electric company will jack up the bills to cover the over time pay for all the technicians out in the field working on major power outages, We see it when severe storms come through or icy winters.


It's not an adjustment, it's a correction, and it's a correction that has to happen if the utility ever takes an actual reading.

Is your electric company regulated? I don't think ours is allowed to arbitrarily raise bills based on a big storm restoration or anything like that. That cost has to already be built into the regulated rates I think.
 
2012-11-25 01:41:15 AM  

Enigmamf:

The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP) is the largest municipal utility in the United States, serving over four million residents.


Hollis Mulray unavailable for comment
 
2012-11-25 01:43:11 AM  

make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?


Scottish Gas gave me the option of paying an estimate or having the meter read. I decided to go with the estimate as it was easier than letting someone into my kitchen every month to read the meter. Besides, electricity and gas for a one bedroom flat are quite cheap, at best I might save £3 a month with less than average use.
 
2012-11-25 01:43:51 AM  

Tor_Eckman: PaLarkin: RedPhoenix122: Amos Quito: /I smell a troll

It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.

The power has been off for several weeks. These people have not been able to use any electricity. They are billed based on the amount they use. This month they're being charged the regular rate when they have not used anywhere near the amount of electricity they normallly use. Sounds to me like you're saying it's ok for government to screw people like this. If it were a private company screwing customers like this and not a government owned entity, the socialists on fark would be screaming bloody murder.

They will not be billed for power they did not use. When the meter actually gets read, the bill will be adjusted. It was probably impossible to read meters under the post-storm conditions. Nevertheless, monthly billing must be done.

So nobody is getting screwed.


The power company gets a nice, interest-free loan from its customers until they bother to go out and read the meter. The customers, in the middle of trying to repair their homes and livelihoods, get to pay for electricity they were physically prevented from using.

Sounds fair. Definitely not a benefit to one side and a problem for the other.
 
2012-11-25 01:45:00 AM  

MisterTweak: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

Remember all those employees they had who trudged from place to place, making note of the meters once a month? They've been fired, and replaced with a company that does it maybe once a quarter, but estimates your usage based on similar users in your area. It's not perfect, but, who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?


My utility still employs all of its meter readers in-house. They're moving towards radio signal meters that don't need to be read, but they still have people walking to meters every month for the meters that's aren't read over-the-air yet. I could call my power company and ask for the usage for any period of time because the wirelessly-read meter sends data every day.
 
2012-11-25 01:46:56 AM  

qorkfiend: The power company gets a nice, interest-free loan from its customers until they bother to go out and read the meter.


Most meter reading departments probably don't have boats or bulldozers.
 
2012-11-25 01:47:43 AM  

RedPhoenix122: Amos Quito: /I smell a troll

It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.


Probably.

DNRTFA.
 
2012-11-25 01:49:24 AM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?

My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


See, that's where you're wrong. Not all power companies are for-profit. We have electric co-ops here in Ohio that are publicly owned and work similar to the way credit unions of old worked. There are also state run power companies, such as the one named in the article, the Long Island Power Authority.
 
2012-11-25 01:49:50 AM  

gweilo8888: Somacandra: GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.

Point of Order: Some middle-sized cities like Ames, IA and Lansing, MI do have their own power/water/sewer companies. These are usually described as being "owned" by the taxpayers. Sometimes they are for-profit regulated monopolies, sometimes simply bureaus of government.

Add Knoxville, Tennessee to the list.


Snohomish County, WA too
 
2012-11-25 01:52:17 AM  
Before the power company servicing Renton, WA switched to the smart meters in the mind 90's they used to use people that "read" the meters with binoculars. My power bill could be $50 one month and $350 another month. Nothing changed. If I had the money back then I'd have sued the shiat out of them for fraud.

They switched to smart meters around '97 and my bill "settled" at approx $150 a month for a 500 sq ft 2 bedroom apartment. Yeah right. I fought with them until April of '99 every month over their bogus billing. Every month they admitted they were wrong. Goddamned thieves.
 
2012-11-25 01:52:34 AM  
The second sentence "an estimated rate ". They all do this. I don't really see the extra outrage. I have my gas company piss me off when they estimate my gas usage every other month and charge me twice as much as I actually use because I keep my house colder than their "estimates". It gets adjusted the next month or I submit the meter reading instead.
 
2012-11-25 01:53:01 AM  
Here in Los Angeles, the lazy farks at LADWP haven't come to read the meter once since March, when we bought the house and got service turned up in our names. They've been estimating readings, according to the bill.

Their estimates have been based on the past year's usage. The house had been empty for the year before we bought it. They estimate we use between 10 and 20 kwh/month based on "prior usage."

While it's been nice to have basically no utility bill, holy crap, we're going to get slammed with a gigantic bill when they really do come read the meter. I've been calling them for six months asking for someone to come actually read the meter instead of estimating. They keep saying they will, and they keep not doing it. It's really farking with my ability to budget, knowing that I'll eventually be hit with an "adjustment" for 9 months of energy usage.
 
2012-11-25 01:53:50 AM  
So, what are you going to do about it smart folks?

Answer: NOTHING.

You're all farking sheep. You can't imagine life without electrical power. You'll do anything to keep the lights on.
 
2012-11-25 01:56:25 AM  
GAT_00:

Deregulation and the glories of capitalism, citizen. Revel in the glory, for you have been blessed!

Can we stop calling different regulation "deregulation". Because it's never deregulation, just different regulation that benefits different insiders or the same old insiders in a different way. Real deregulation would open the business to actual competition and the insiders would never, ever, put up with that because that would mean lower prices for customers.

Oznog:

Well they are yet another avenue for prying, looking for pot growers or something. And may be used to come up with more complex billing schemes for different pricing at hours of peak usage, which may get twisted into cellphone-plan complexity. But it's kind of an obvious thing that these meters will be used.


Smart meters, when utilized to their full capacity can use back EMF to see what you use when and when appliances are made compatible the smart meters can then tell the appliances to turn off. Essentially they will, when fully utilized, give the power company control over just about everything of importance in your home. Right now all smart meters do is send usage data back to the mothership. All the rest is future capability. I believe I cited this fully in previous fark thread, but it's all available from reputable sources if one wishes to look. I'm not going through the exercise again.
 
2012-11-25 01:56:26 AM  

PaulieattheTap: Similar thing happened to me after Wilma blew thru S. FL. I contested the first bill I got because it was exactly the same as the previous month. They finally sent someone to read the meter (I was still w/out power when he came). He asked asked if I knew I had to power. No shiat Sherlock, the whole neighborhood is still black after a week.

I received an adjusted bill with in a few days. The next bill I got was double my normal bill, called about that one. They sent a guy guy out. He asked how many days I was w/out power. I said at least one week before the end of the last bill period and probably almost a week and a half into this period. I really didn't know because I went to a hotel for about 8 days until I knew my electric was back on. He goes back to his car, calls some one and comes back and says I'll be back to read these meters for the next 2 billing cycles, you will see and adjustment in a few days. Thanks for calling us. The adjustment came and I owed $0, then it was half of normal and back to normal the next month. So I really can't complain about FPL (Flickering Power and Lights) here in SE. FL. They did me OK.

Last year they upgraded my meter and they can somehow read it remotely.


So you were cool and they were cool and everything worked out fine? What does that say about me when I'm shocked to hear that?!
 
2012-11-25 01:57:43 AM  

I_Hate_Iowa: MisterTweak: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

Remember all those employees they had who trudged from place to place, making note of the meters once a month? They've been fired, and replaced with a company that does it maybe once a quarter, but estimates your usage based on similar users in your area. It's not perfect, but, who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?

My utility still employs all of its meter readers in-house. They're moving towards radio signal meters that don't need to be read, but they still have people walking to meters every month for the meters that's aren't read over-the-air yet. I could call my power company and ask for the usage for any period of time because the wirelessly-read meter sends data every day.


I've got one of them too. It's interesting to look at for a while, but it didn't really yield any big surprises (my power usage is lowest in middle of night when everyone's sleeping and lights are off, highest at 6pm when it's hot out and everyone's home, and making dinner too). But I did use it to lecture the kids on the hazards of thinking they can knock a couple degrees off the thermostat without me noticing. ;-)

Someone else mentioned these being used for demand-sensitive pricing. My two cents, I don't think so - at least at residential level. The utilities that have tried it have mostly moved away from it; it's too complex, and the few customers who have big enough bills to get a significant benefit, end up not liking it. The math just doesn't work well, especially when prices for electricity have been falling rather than rising. Hell, my local power company is offering to renew my service at a significant drop from last year.
 
2012-11-25 01:58:19 AM  

grimlock1972: Id be more outraged but what happened is a computer spat them out and a low paid peon at the power company did his job and mailed them out.

its still wrong of course but there is no malicious intent.


Yeah, but that wouldn't be as outrageous a story and nobody could get upset at that.
 
2012-11-25 01:58:42 AM  
Also, I have 8kw and 100 gallons of gasoline.

/feel free to start a separate "preppers" thread.
//cause we're all crazy.
 
2012-11-25 01:59:27 AM  

Amos Quito: tin_man: Amos Quito: tin_man: The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.


On the contrary, I'm sure it went through the roof, considering the destruction of infrastructure.

Yet they bill based on consumption, not delivery, so that's the problem of the utility company and their insurance providers, isn't it?


/I smell a troll

Yes, speaking of the logistics and realities behind delivering a utility, any utility, to the end user is trolling.


The utility bills based on CONSUMPTION (hence the METER)

As utility failed to deliver the product to the end user, the product was not consumed.


This.

When we have had week long power outages up here we have noticed a *decrease* in our power/gas bill.

/funny thing that.
 
2012-11-25 02:04:06 AM  

GAT_00: simplicimus: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

We just a gas bill $40 over the previous bill. An "adjustment". For what, I have no idea,

Deregulation and the glories of capitalism, citizen. Revel in the glory, for you have been blessed!


Long Island Power Authority

LIPA, a non-profit municipal electric utility, owns the retail electric system on Long Island and provides electric service to over 1.1 million customers in Nassau and Suffolk counties, and the Rockaway Peninsula in Queens.

Emphasis added. It's owned by New York State.

But don't let facts get in the way of an anti-capitalist rant.
 
2012-11-25 02:05:08 AM  
So call them and demand an actual read. They have to do it and they can't shut it off until they read the meter, bill you and then you don't pay.
 
2012-11-25 02:06:49 AM  
I live in NJ about 10 miles from the ocean that was hit hard, so we had power out for a while. I got my bill and it was estimated. Not even close. I did my own meter reading and sent it to them and got it adjusted.
// boring story
 
2012-11-25 02:09:16 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: It's an estimated bill. They're not doing it manually; it's done by computer. Once the meter is read later on the bill will be corrected.


I_Hate_Iowa: It's not unfair practices because it will be corrected the next time there's an actual reading.


...you've never dealt with a power or gas company before, have you?
 
2012-11-25 02:10:21 AM  

Sherman Potter: Also, I have 8kw and 100 gallons of gasoline.

/feel free to start a separate "preppers" thread.
//cause we're all crazy.


One of my the neighbors here had some $400 costco generator he ran day and night after the last storm. I won't say the entire neighborhood was in agreement to burn his house down, with him inside it, but it was a pretty close vote. Happily, his generator died on about the third night. It was still a nasty week, but there's nothing like trying to sleep in hot, dark weather, with a shiatty lawnmower running round the clock.
 
2012-11-25 02:12:14 AM  

IlGreven: ...you've never dealt with a power or gas company before, have you?


It depends on the power or gas company, some are very good about adjusting bills, some not so much.
 
2012-11-25 02:16:11 AM  

make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?


We have a guy or gal in a truck who drives around and reads the meters from the road with binoculars. They are farking fast and must have some steady hands and some awesome lenses. I mean, they are at least 80 yards away and they have the meter read in seconds. I wonder what random debauchery they see.

GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


I'm part of a co-op. I guess it's a co-op, in that they send me monthly newsletters about happenings in the co-op and small town news. Otherwise it feels like any old company. And my prices are a tad higher than what it would be across the highway, which is serviced by a corp. No complaints though. They restored power fast as heck when we had a bad fire.
 
2012-11-25 02:17:10 AM  
This is why those estimated bills should go away. If you can spend the money to have monthly meter checks, then change all of the meters to the "smart" ones that are able to show real time usage.
 
2012-11-25 02:20:19 AM  
The clueless utility charged Sandy-soaked Long Island residents an estimated rate that covered the entire billing cycle, and the statements made no mention of potential refunds to account for the prolonged blackouts.

This really isn't rocket surgery. It looks like the Post is as confused as the customers.

Generally, when you sign up for service with a power company you opt for one of two kinds of billing: Either you pay each month for the power you use, or you pay 12 equal fractions of a total estimated bill for the year (any under- or over-payments are generally rolled into next year, or settled at the end of they cycle). Power companies always push for the second option for several reasons:

1. If you live on Long Island, they've been providing power to your location for decades, even if you haven't lived there that long. They know better than you what the normal power usage for your building is.
2. It ensures that you don't get whacked with unexpectedly high bills during winter or summer (depending on your usage and climate) that you're not prepared to pay. I've seen bills fluctuate from $35/month in the summer to over $400/month in the winter. Most people aren't able to budget for that.
3 It allows them to read you meter quarterly or semi-annually, instead of having to send someone out every month. Sometimes, they'll even offer you a lower rate per kwh to reflect their lower operating costs.

If you go without power for 2 weeks in autumn, it's not likely to impact your overall yearly bill very much, so you'll still end up owing about the same amount of money that month. The $20 or so of power that you would have used for those two weeks is spread out over multiple bills. If you had gone without heat for the entire month of February, you'd either see a big refund, or a greatly diminished monthly bill for the next cycle.
 
2012-11-25 02:20:42 AM  

Gulper Eel: simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.

The state motto of New York.

the entire northeast.
 
2012-11-25 02:21:06 AM  
Wait until a few months/year(s) from now when all the costs for repairing the damage has been realized. The power companies (and every other business that lost 10 cents) is not going to eat those losses.
 
2012-11-25 02:24:52 AM  

MisterTweak: Sherman Potter: Also, I have 8kw and 100 gallons of gasoline.

/feel free to start a separate "preppers" thread.
//cause we're all crazy.

One of my the neighbors here had some $400 costco generator he ran day and night after the last storm. I won't say the entire neighborhood was in agreement to burn his house down, with him inside it, but it was a pretty close vote. Happily, his generator died on about the third night. It was still a nasty week, but there's nothing like trying to sleep in hot, dark weather, with a shiatty lawnmower running round the clock.


Two AR's and a Mossberg 590-A1 tend to help in situations like this.
 
2012-11-25 02:31:14 AM  

KrispyKritter: Wait until a few months/year(s) from now when all the costs for repairing the damage has been realized. The power companies (and every other business that lost 10 cents) is not going to eat those losses.


I believe in the case of my state's regulated utilities, that cost has to be built into the regulated rates and they can't add arbitrary charges because of unforecasted costs. They can try to file for a rate increase because of increased storm costs, but they may not get all they ask for. I have no idea if New York utilities would work in the same manner.
 
2012-11-25 02:31:31 AM  

RedPhoenix122: It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.


Political exaggerations from Rupert Murdoch owned newspaper?!? Never!

Private industry is a hell of a lot worse at billing customers for services not received, you'll rarely see Fox or any News Corp newspaper hammer private industry for the same exact thing.

/Large bureaucracies are inefficient and do stupid things because of institutional momentum. Doesn't matter if they're run by private companies or government agencies. Government doesn't = inefficient, Large = inefficient.
 
2012-11-25 02:33:01 AM  

erst: Here in Los Angeles, the lazy farks at LADWP haven't come to read the meter once since March, when we bought the house and got service turned up in our names. They've been estimating readings, according to the bill.

Their estimates have been based on the past year's usage. The house had been empty for the year before we bought it. They estimate we use between 10 and 20 kwh/month based on "prior usage."

While it's been nice to have basically no utility bill, holy crap, we're going to get slammed with a gigantic bill when they really do come read the meter. I've been calling them for six months asking for someone to come actually read the meter instead of estimating. They keep saying they will, and they keep not doing it. It's really farking with my ability to budget, knowing that I'll eventually be hit with an "adjustment" for 9 months of energy usage.


Did you snap a photo of the meter when you moved in? Or record the reading at least? It's pretty trivial calculation to estimate your own bill. You just subtract the old reading from the new, and multiply by your price per kwh. If you're really worried, you could even go read the thing today, and again at the end of the week, and have at least an idea of your base usage.
 
2012-11-25 02:34:23 AM  

IlGreven: Satanic_Hamster: It's an estimated bill. They're not doing it manually; it's done by computer. Once the meter is read later on the bill will be corrected.

I_Hate_Iowa: It's not unfair practices because it will be corrected the next time there's an actual reading.

...you've never dealt with a power or gas company before, have you?


I have, and my utility actually has good, in-house customer service people on the phones. I've never had a single problem go unresolved after two calls, and most only need the one.
 
2012-11-25 02:34:25 AM  
"State-controlled Long Island Power Authority to customers: Here's your bill for the electricity you didn't have for two weeks after Sandy, because this is New York so you can go fark yourselves (for which you'll be billed, taxed and surcharged)"

Blue state problems...
 
2012-11-25 02:34:43 AM  
The more threads about this stuff I read, the more I want my own solar panels, etc.
 
2012-11-25 02:35:44 AM  

violentsalvation: GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.

I'm part of a co-op. I guess it's a co-op, in that they send me monthly newsletters about happenings in the co-op and small town news. Otherwise it feels like any old company. And my prices are a tad higher than what it would be across the highway, which is serviced by a corp. No complaints though. They restored power fast as heck when we had a bad fire.


Citizen's Utilities, right? I used to do contract work for them in Kingman and the surrounding area.
 
2012-11-25 02:41:29 AM  

erst: While it's been nice to have basically no utility bill, holy crap, we're going to get slammed with a gigantic bill when they really do come read the meter. I've been calling them for six months asking for someone to come actually read the meter instead of estimating. They keep saying they will, and they keep not doing it. It's really farking with my ability to budget, knowing that I'll eventually be hit with an "adjustment" for 9 months of energy usage.


so estimate what you think you use each month, put the month in savings, when the bill comes due, you will have the cash to pay. TADA

in fact, you can go read your own meter and not even have to estimate anything.
quick, go right now, subtract the estimated value from your last bill from the current total, multiply by the rate and then let us know how screwed you are

/inquiring minds wants to know
 
2012-11-25 02:42:08 AM  
My apartments converted from electric heat to natural gas. I'm on the budget plane, so my bill is averaged out (I could chose to not be on that plan and pay each months bill). Unfortunately, the average is taken over 12 months. We switched mid-month. That had almost no effect on my average electric bill with 11 other months in the average. The gas bill however, was averaged from one month. My bill jumped from about $120 a month, to two straight months closer to $170. It sucked and the company doing the conversion or the apartment complex should have known enough to warn us. We could have switched off the budget for a couple months and our bills would have stayed lower. That's how averages work- there is lag. This story is basically the same principle, except that it's done quarterly.

This month my adjusted bill hit and I paid $17.
 
2012-11-25 02:43:34 AM  

stonent: Blue state problems...


thank you
made my day

now to start using those two memes
constantly
 
2012-11-25 02:44:45 AM  

violentsalvation: We have a guy or gal in a truck who drives around and reads the meters from the road with binoculars. They are farking fast and must have some steady hands and some awesome lenses. I mean, they are at least 80 yards away and they have the meter read in seconds. I wonder what random debauchery they see.


Maybe they have image-capture? I haven't seen a pair of binoculars for as long as I can remember, but it seems unlikely that a little digi-camera hasn't been made standard on them by now.


Here you go, $30.
 
2012-11-25 02:46:05 AM  

bunner: So call them and demand an actual read. They have to do it and they can't shut it off until they read the meter, bill you and then you don't pay.


You forgot to add that they should check their local laws before doing that.
 
2012-11-25 02:49:58 AM  

Sherman Potter: MisterTweak: Sherman Potter: Also, I have 8kw and 100 gallons of gasoline.

/feel free to start a separate "preppers" thread.
//cause we're all crazy.

One of my the neighbors here had some $400 costco generator he ran day and night after the last storm. I won't say the entire neighborhood was in agreement to burn his house down, with him inside it, but it was a pretty close vote. Happily, his generator died on about the third night. It was still a nasty week, but there's nothing like trying to sleep in hot, dark weather, with a shiatty lawnmower running round the clock.

Two AR's and a Mossberg 590-A1 tend to help in situations like this.


Ok, maybe that would be impressive in Nantucket or something, but in Texas? The retired grandma at the end of the block here can put five .30-06 rounds in a one-foot circle at 200 yards. So much easier and safer to offer neighbors a few bottles of cold water and ask if they need to keep some medicines refrigerated or something.
 
2012-11-25 03:11:37 AM  

MisterTweak: Sherman Potter: MisterTweak: Sherman Potter: Also, I have 8kw and 100 gallons of gasoline.

/feel free to start a separate "preppers" thread.
//cause we're all crazy.

One of my the neighbors here had some $400 costco generator he ran day and night after the last storm. I won't say the entire neighborhood was in agreement to burn his house down, with him inside it, but it was a pretty close vote. Happily, his generator died on about the third night. It was still a nasty week, but there's nothing like trying to sleep in hot, dark weather, with a shiatty lawnmower running round the clock.

Two AR's and a Mossberg 590-A1 tend to help in situations like this.

Ok, maybe that would be impressive in Nantucket or something, but in Texas? The retired grandma at the end of the block here can put five .30-06 rounds in a one-foot circle at 200 yards. So much easier and safer to offer neighbors a few bottles of cold water and ask if they need to keep some medicines refrigerated or something.


Fark grandma; she's on her own.

I prep for me and mine. No one else.
 
2012-11-25 03:21:44 AM  
All utility companies do that. Usually your bill you get this month is from the previous month. Guess who pays for the repair of the electric lines. It isn't the utility companies.
 
2012-11-25 03:21:55 AM  

JonBuck: GAT_00: simplicimus: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

We just a gas bill $40 over the previous bill. An "adjustment". For what, I have no idea,

Deregulation and the glories of capitalism, citizen. Revel in the glory, for you have been blessed!

Long Island Power Authority

LIPA, a non-profit municipal electric utility, owns the retail electric system on Long Island and provides electric service to over 1.1 million customers in Nassau and Suffolk counties, and the Rockaway Peninsula in Queens.

Emphasis added. It's owned by New York State.

But don't let facts get in the way of an anti-capitalist rant.


Fear not. He/she has never let facts get in the way of a good trolling.
 
2012-11-25 03:23:11 AM  

DownDaRiver: So the submitted link a few hours ago from the same source with arguably better headline that has more hits and had more comments gets red, but this gets green?

/not Subbsie


The mods are power hungry. The greenlight system is a scam. You may get bannation for even mentioning it.
 
2012-11-25 03:25:01 AM  

Nemo's Brother: DownDaRiver: So the submitted link a few hours ago from the same source with arguably better headline that has more hits and had more comments gets red, but this gets green?

/not Subbsie

The mods are power hungry. The greenlight system is a scam. You may get bannation for even mentioning it.


Also, "Welcometofark.jpg"
 
2012-11-25 03:33:02 AM  

tin_man: The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.

And if you start using more of a commodity, you will eventually end up paying more. It's really unfair.


Corporate farking socialism. fark you!
 
2012-11-25 03:35:31 AM  
yawn. i get charged for water and sewer i never use by my water company every month. i don't shower at my house, or have a washer/dryer or dishwasher. my water heater is turned off and i flush my toilet only when it is mellow yellow. my bill is always 21.84. i don't come near using the 'free' allotment of water they give you before they start charging extra. if they charged per gallon used right from the start i bet i'd pay 3 bucks each the water and sewer hooker and 2-3 dollars a month for water.
 
2012-11-25 03:41:35 AM  

RandomRandom: RedPhoenix122: It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.

Political exaggerations from Rupert Murdoch owned newspaper?!? Never!

Private industry is a hell of a lot worse at billing customers for services not received, you'll rarely see Fox or any News Corp newspaper hammer private industry for the same exact thing.

/Large bureaucracies are inefficient and do stupid things because of institutional momentum. Doesn't matter if they're run by private companies or government agencies. Government doesn't = inefficient, Large = inefficient.


My last job was doing reporting on LIPA for NYSERDA.

I disagree that LIPA is "large". It's more like "just smart enough to know that they don't know what they're doing".

Nothing gets done because the whole thing is held together by duct tape and questionable algorithms. "It might be wrong but as long as it's consistent then everything's okay," said one employee.
 
2012-11-25 03:43:20 AM  

starlost: yawn. i get charged for water and sewer i never use by my water company every month. i don't shower at my house, or have a washer/dryer or dishwasher. my water heater is turned off and i flush my toilet only when it is mellow yellow. my bill is always 21.84. i don't come near using the 'free' allotment of water they give you before they start charging extra. if they charged per gallon used right from the start i bet i'd pay 3 bucks each the water and sewer hooker and 2-3 dollars a month for water.


Wife and I had a store. We flushed the stool twice a day and probably washed our hands 3 or 4 times. Our bill was $65 a month without trash service. Used to piss me off badly, just because we were a business we got raped.
 
2012-11-25 03:54:08 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: Wife and I had a store. We flushed the stool twice a day and probably washed our hands 3 or 4 times. Our bill was $65 a month without trash service. Used to piss me off badly, just because we were a business we got raped.


Drama queen.

If you're looking for commiseration, my ISP bill is $65/mo. I'm not connected to a SONET ring or anything, it's just the cost of having internet.

Now, if you really want rape try getting your head pounded into the pavement while being painfully sexually penetrated. Maybe you'll live. Maybe you won't. You'll probably end up with a nasty disease if you do. At any rate it's going to be the kind of thing that haunts you for most of the rest of your life.

I don't mean to put too fine a point on it, but your water bill is a trivial accounting nuisance at best.

/ice clinks in the glass
 
2012-11-25 04:09:06 AM  
Subby, I know what you're trying to do with "state-controlled" in the headline, but you need to understand that all power companies exist to royally fark the customer.

Entergy, a private, Fortune 500 company that supplies power to greater New Orleans, routinely screws around. Let me ask you - do you think they were at all fair to us following Katrina? Would you like me to explain the anal trauma we received from them? Nah, I didn't think so. Let's just leave it at "it was bad."

If you're looking for examples of how states and the federal government can screw up, you really weaksauced this one.
 
2012-11-25 04:47:19 AM  

dickfreckle: the anal trauma we received


i.imgur.com
 
2012-11-25 04:58:30 AM  

Oznog: Naturally the quacks have come out to protest them, that somehow this is going to wirelessly poison people. Never mind the hundred cellphones you passed by today, there's a meter sending a brief data packet BESIDE YOUR HOUSE!!


Those people are idiots. I love my smart meter (in the Phoenix area), it gives me a daily read, estimates my bill for me, and gives me a chart against date and average daily temperature.
 
2012-11-25 05:00:12 AM  
Oh you people talking about your estimations.

My power bill for a two bedroom house went from $70 all the way up to $340, based on 'estimates.' Same with a lot of people in the area. Power bill went back down to $90 or so when enough people raised a stink to get meter readers to come out, but that was after the due date on the bill so if you didn't cough up the almost 5x more than you were used to paying you'd have your power cut off, and they'd still slap you with a $100 or so reconnect fee. Thanks, Knoxville.
 
2012-11-25 05:20:11 AM  
Can't customers read their own meters and avoid estimated bills?

Power Co. here reads the meter one month and estimates the next.

On estimated months I read it and enter the reading on their website.
 
2012-11-25 05:46:59 AM  

gweilo8888: Somacandra: GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.

Point of Order: Some middle-sized cities like Ames, IA and Lansing, MI do have their own power/water/sewer companies. These are usually described as being "owned" by the taxpayers. Sometimes they are for-profit regulated monopolies, sometimes simply bureaus of government.

Add Knoxville, Tennessee to the list. From their most recent newsletter:

"KUB, a municipal utility (not for profit), serving Knox and parts of seven adjacent counties, provides reliable electric, gas, water, and wastewater services to about 440,000 customers."


Likewise Seattle. The city-owned electric utility's called Seattle City Light.
 
2012-11-25 05:52:04 AM  
Am I understanding this correctly, some american electricity companies read meters every month!!!

That is a ridiculous waste of resourses.
I get a postcard to be filled in with the meter reading once a year, and yes you can cheat, but sooner or later you will be caught, when they make random checks.
After the reading the next bill is corrected for the difference to the estimated use you have payed for.
 
2012-11-25 06:13:40 AM  
The same thing happened to me after Hurricane Ike...3 weeks without power but a normal monthly bill here in unregulated Texas.
 
2012-11-25 06:30:17 AM  
I live on the fringe of an area served by a co op, rather than the big behemoth. Years ago, meter readers were constantly chased by dogs or the gun totin' good ole boys that didn't want anyone, ANYONE, on their property. So, the co op invested in upgraded equipment, and now the meter readers ride around in their trucks, and aim a little gizmo out their windows. They barely have to slow down, and it's done. Now, the fools complain their bills are wrong because no one reads their meters. We have the same 10 or so idiots that show up at utility meetings, public service meetings, news articles, you name it, and there they are biatching about how dare these companies charge so much, never read the meter, blah, blah, blah.
 
2012-11-25 07:38:13 AM  
What the fark are you on? My power comes 100% from TVA and it's a county utility board that I pay for my power.

TVA as in Tennessee Valley Authority? LOL got news for you, they are a quasi-federal entity.
 
2012-11-25 07:49:09 AM  

tin_man: Amos Quito: tin_man: The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.


On the contrary, I'm sure it went through the roof, considering the destruction of infrastructure.

Yet they bill based on consumption, not delivery, so that's the problem of the utility company and their insurance providers, isn't it?


/I smell a troll

Yes, speaking of the logistics and realities behind delivering a utility, any utility, to the end user is trolling.


I see, so it is WE who should be grateful for their benevolent existence without which we would be without electric/cable/water/whatever... it has nothing whatsoever to do with demand... it's such a burden for them. I don't see why we never saw this before... I mean after all... it's we who need them because there is no such thing as generating electricity, or digging a well, or entertaining yourself and thank God for that... what would those poor benevolent companies do if those things existed?

/oh... 0/potato btw :)
 
2012-11-25 07:50:15 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: It's an estimated bill. They're not doing it manually; it's done by computer. Once the meter is read later on the bill will be corrected.

BFD.


Well, the BFD is that people are getting bills that are not legitimate at a time when they are in the midst of a financial crisis.
 
2012-11-25 07:50:50 AM  

Amos Quito: MisterTweak: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

Remember all those employees they had who trudged from place to place, making note of the meters once a month? They've been fired, and replaced with a company that does it maybe once a quarter, but estimates your usage based on similar users in your area. It's not perfect, but, who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?


Can't they outsource to China?


^^^^ That was a thing of beauty :)
 
2012-11-25 07:52:41 AM  
I would take them to court, and simply say "prove you delivered said service during this period of time"... can't do it, tough shiat.
 
2012-11-25 08:03:07 AM  

HindiDiscoMonster: I would take them to court, and simply say "prove you delivered said service during this period of time"... can't do it, tough shiat.


"Dear *insert customer name here* It has come to our attention that you are suing us in *name of court* for *infraction*. Due to pending litigation, we will no longer be able to deliver service to *your address*. Thank you for your understanding."
 
2012-11-25 08:05:12 AM  
My power comes 100% from TVA and it's a county utility board that I pay for my power.

For the fool that wrote the above: About TVA
"The Tennessee Valley Authority, a corporation owned by the U.S. government provides electricity for 9 million people in parts of seven southeastern states at prices below the national average. TVA, which receives no taxpayer money and makes no profits"

It is a government entity, but because it doesn't receive taxpayer funding, it is considered quasi-federal.
 
2012-11-25 08:21:41 AM  
Where I live FPL gived you 2 options for billing. Actual usage or budget (average). If this is similar then of course they will get billed because you pay the same amount every month regardless of usage that particular month.
 
2012-11-25 08:29:52 AM  
Even out here in rural Arkansas we have smart meters from our electric co-op. I have a propane tank for my gas device, don't start biatching until you have to fill it. $500 once a year.
 
2012-11-25 08:34:42 AM  
Some smart meters put out some sort of blip based on usage and you can hang a device over it to catch the blip so you can get real time usage you can track on your computer.
 
2012-11-25 08:41:44 AM  

Lsherm: GAT_00: Lsherm: Gulper Eel: simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.

The state motto of New York.

gubmint.

Had to do it. They are the ones that are billing you.

What the fark are you on? My power comes 100% from TVA and it's a county utility board that I pay for my power.

The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?


In GAT_00's world, if it something awesome, then it's the government. If something sucks, it must be the result of free market capitalism, logic be damned.
 
2012-11-25 08:45:29 AM  
"I can't get LIPA to acknowledge my existence on earth to talk to me about anything," he ranted.

Or "said." "Said" also works.

/Good old Post
 
2012-11-25 08:50:37 AM  

DownDaRiver: So the submitted link a few hours ago from the same source with arguably better headline that has more hits and had more comments gets red, but this gets green?

/not Subbsie


I know, right?
 
2012-11-25 09:08:33 AM  
I actually grew up in a town that has it's own city power plant. It's a city full of stubborn cusses. They still run their own city cable tv company too. So all the utility workers are your neighbors. I miss that town and hope to retire there.
 
2012-11-25 09:29:00 AM  

GAT_00: simplicimus: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

We just a gas bill $40 over the previous bill. An "adjustment". For what, I have no idea,

Deregulation and the glories of capitalism, citizen. Revel in the glory, for you have been blessed!


.
Want to know how I now you have never lived on your own?
 
2012-11-25 09:31:44 AM  
FTA: Those figures represent a portion of customers' fixed monthly bills, which exclude power usage

So even if you don't use any power you still get a bill? how does that work? I have solar panels outside that normally provide about 40-50% of my normal power, but the last 2 months it has been cool so the AC has not been running, and most of my work in my shop has been hand tool work so the big power hungry band and table saw hasn't been run much, so the last 2 bills from the power company have been 0 and -4.50, yup negative balance, they pay me to feed power into their system, not charge me for what I am not using.
 
2012-11-25 09:44:43 AM  

Oznog:

Somebody figured out how to hack them awhile back, BTW. Found there's an optical link hooked straight up to the controller's programming pins, that's the lowest level of interface and it can't protect itself against getting reflashed from there. No digital signing or anything. Doesn't require the ...



Thanks for the info.
 
2012-11-25 09:52:15 AM  
Sorry, I never got the bill because my mailbox is floating around in the Gulf Stream along with the rest of my house.
 
2012-11-25 10:08:41 AM  
I moved into a new complex, just after the fire department made them renumber the addresses. The power company never billed anyone due to the mix-up. So one day the 200 homes had their power cut. You would think that the people going house to house would be bright enough to figure out something was wrong.
I got my power right back on due to a call to the utility comission and saying that I had sent monthy certified letters asking for my bill. Since the utility comission got on their case, they waived my balance. My neighbors who did not complain every month had to pay.
 
2012-11-25 10:16:16 AM  

Pribar: FTA: Those figures represent a portion of customers' fixed monthly bills, which exclude power usage

So even if you don't use any power you still get a bill? how does that work? I have solar panels outside that normally provide about 40-50% of my normal power, but the last 2 months it has been cool so the AC has not been running, and most of my work in my shop has been hand tool work so the big power hungry band and table saw hasn't been run much, so the last 2 bills from the power company have been 0 and -4.50, yup negative balance, they pay me to feed power into their system, not charge me for what I am not using.


I'm pretty sure our utility bill includes some flat-rate fees. In theory, we'd still get a small bill every month for those fees even if we didn't actually use any electricity.
 
2012-11-25 10:16:56 AM  
The NYP almost always takes the corporate side - why not here, too?

Not only are they nuts, but they are hypocritical as well - who would have guessed?
 
2012-11-25 10:20:48 AM  

MisterTweak: Remember all those employees they had who trudged from place to place, making note of the meters once a month? They've been fired, and replaced with a company that does it maybe once a quarter, but estimates your usage based on similar users in your area. It's not perfect, but, who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?


Actually, it's often done electronically. Our meters are most certainly read monthly but it's been a long time since I saw a meter reader. Many years ago our water meter acquired a box on it's face that from it's position obviously was a camera that let someone see what the numbers were. A while back the whole meter got replaced, no more camera, the electronics must be inside. It can't be read from the office, though.

I suspect that in the areas without electronic meters you're right that it's often estimated rather than read. In the long run it does no harm, you're going to pay the same amount, the only question is what month you pay it in.

I_Hate_Iowa: If they estimate your bill one month, but then take a reading the next month, it all evens out and you only pay what you owe for two months, it just wasn't accurate one month. If they estimated usage because they couldn't get out and read meters, they probably don't have a special hurricane aftermath estimation algorithm. That means you're going to get an estimated bill because they couldn't get to your meter, and it's going to be wrong because they're going to be estimating based on normal usage because they can't come up with a superstorm estimation formula on the fly. But next month when they do get back to your meter, the reading will be much lower than another estimated reading would have pegged it at. Which means this is the month your bill will be low, instead of last month when it actually would have been low.


Good point. The hurricane likely messed up normal meter reading.

I have no idea how they can possibly get away with no actual readings at least once every six months at the bare minimum. I remember growing up we had a co-op and included the meter reading you took yourself when you paid last month's bill. It's nigh impossible to be able to cheat it because you'd have to keep fudging the numbers every month, even if you just cheat one month and now are trying to stay even. If you report the real reading even one month, all past cheats are accounted for.

Even if you never report the real reading you'll be caught in the end when they do a final read when you disconnect service.

Pribar: FTA: Those figures represent a portion of customers' fixed monthly bills, which exclude power usage

So even if you don't use any power you still get a bill? how does that work? I have solar panels outside that normally provide about 40-50% of my normal power, but the last 2 months it has been cool so the AC has not been running, and most of my work in my shop has been hand tool work so the big power hungry band and table saw hasn't been run much, so the last 2 bills from the power company have been 0 and -4.50, yup negative balance, they pay me to feed power into their system, not charge me for what I am not using.


Most utility bills include a few dollars a month service fee--after all, it does cost them something to have a customer regardless of how much power they use. Around here I believe the feedback from solar can't get rid of this, either.
 
2012-11-25 10:20:57 AM  

MisterTweak: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

Remember all those employees they had who trudged from place to place, making note of the meters once a month? They've been fired, and replaced with a company that does it maybe once a quarter, but estimates your usage based on similar users in your area. It's not perfect, but, who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?


My power company replaced them with a meter that can be read wirelessly. They just send a truck around reading meters as it drives by. Why estimate when it's so easy to get the actual data?
 
2012-11-25 10:28:50 AM  
I don't see anything wrong with LIPA charging for electricity during the power outage. You signed their contract, you KNEW going in the terms and conditions, and you are using THEIR meter. They're a legal monopoly on Long Island (barring a few small-town suppliers who have maintained their independence) and as a corporation, they are NOT doing anything illegal. Deal with it or move out.

I /Seriously, they know how to make their money
//Pay the appropriate, INTELLIGENT, and educated people the correct per annum compensation too.
 
2012-11-25 10:54:59 AM  

RandomRandom: RedPhoenix122: It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.

Political exaggerations from Rupert Murdoch owned newspaper?!? Never!

Private industry is a hell of a lot worse at billing customers for services not received, you'll rarely see Fox or any News Corp newspaper hammer private industry for the same exact thing.

/Large bureaucracies are inefficient and do stupid things because of institutional momentum. Doesn't matter if they're run by private companies or government agencies. Government doesn't = inefficient, Large = inefficient.


Yeah, I sincerely doubt that Con Edison and PSEG didn't do the same farking thing.
 
2012-11-25 11:15:20 AM  

I_Hate_Iowa: Is your electric company regulated? I don't think ours is allowed to arbitrarily raise bills based on a big storm restoration or anything like that. That cost has to already be built into the regulated rates I think.


Opps meant to say "rumor has it" before that. They are regulated by the state, they say they have gotten rid of a lot of their workers to save millions but they say they need to raise rates to cover costs with dealing with emergencies and other crap. This year they were approved for raising the rates 15%. Also my electric usage is around 800 - 1150. The first month I had the house my electric usage was 1800, that was for 17 days of service and I didn't even live here that month because I was packing up the old home. The second month was 1600 for 29 days and I actually lived here. I called and complained both months and they told me that the meter is accurate. The third month my electric dropped to 820 even though I didn't change any of my daily habits. My usage never broke 1200 again until we were hit by a summer storm that did damage in town and my usage magically jumped up to 1500. This company doesn't do estimates for first year customers, they will do it for second year customers if you say that you want them to.

/no nobody is hijacking my electricity
//I don't even have an electrical outlet outside.

///When I had the co-op we reported our own usage and they would send their own crew members around to audit it every 6 months to make sure everything was correct.
 
2012-11-25 11:18:01 AM  
It will get adjusted. They will only be charged taxes and meter usage.
 
2012-11-25 11:19:47 AM  
LIPA isn't a private-sector power company - it's a political entitiy created by the State of NY under Mario Cuomo after state and Long Island politicians (a lot of them supposedly "conservative" Republicans) farked its predecessor Lilco nine ways from Sunday: governments first overcharged Lilco by $1.4 billion on property taxes, so Lilco sued and won...except that oopsie, the Long Island governments had gone and spent that $1.4 billion already. Sucks to be you, Lilco.

Lilco also had a perfectly good nuclear power plant ready to go at Shoreham, but they made the mistake of trying to get rolling during the peak of No Nukes hysteria, plus the thoroughly mobbed-up construction and other unions of the day were pissing and moaning that they didn't get their cut so the state's politicians shut it down. And there went six billion dollars. Today's ratepayers are still stuck with the tab for it. Gibbering scientific ignorance: it's a winner for leftists too.
 
2012-11-25 11:25:27 AM  

hypocaffeinemia: The same thing happened to me after Hurricane Ike...3 weeks without power but a normal monthly bill here in unregulated Texas.


The what now?
 
2012-11-25 11:34:55 AM  
LIPAsucktion.
 
2012-11-25 11:35:11 AM  

Sherman Potter: MisterTweak: Sherman Potter: MisterTweak: Sherman Potter: Also, I have 8kw and 100 gallons of gasoline.

/feel free to start a separate "preppers" thread.
//cause we're all crazy.

One of my the neighbors here had some $400 costco generator he ran day and night after the last storm. I won't say the entire neighborhood was in agreement to burn his house down, with him inside it, but it was a pretty close vote. Happily, his generator died on about the third night. It was still a nasty week, but there's nothing like trying to sleep in hot, dark weather, with a shiatty lawnmower running round the clock.

Two AR's and a Mossberg 590-A1 tend to help in situations like this.

Ok, maybe that would be impressive in Nantucket or something, but in Texas? The retired grandma at the end of the block here can put five .30-06 rounds in a one-foot circle at 200 yards. So much easier and safer to offer neighbors a few bottles of cold water and ask if they need to keep some medicines refrigerated or something.

Fark grandma; she's on her own.

I prep for me and mine. No one else.


Humans: well known solitary creatures who never need others, either for companionship or for specialized skillets.
 
2012-11-25 11:56:49 AM  
Maybe I'm the only one to point this out so far, but the crybaby in the article has two homes and his own business, and he's whining about a few hundred on his utility bills? Boo hoo hoo. Pardon me for not shedding a tear for this "near-1%er". Man up already, and go back to paying your waitresses below minimum wage to make you rich.
 
2012-11-25 12:01:26 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: Sherman Potter: MisterTweak: Sherman Potter: MisterTweak: Sherman Potter: Also, I have 8kw and 100 gallons of gasoline.

Humans: well known solitary creatures who never need others, either for companionship or for specialized skillets.


Cannibal?
 
2012-11-25 12:18:09 PM  
Ha ha. My Pepco bill was $27 this month.
 
2012-11-25 12:44:04 PM  

GAT_00: simplicimus: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

We just a gas bill $40 over the previous bill. An "adjustment". For what, I have no idea,

Deregulation and the glories of capitalism, citizen. Revel in the glory, for you have been blessed!


????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????....
 
2012-11-25 01:02:39 PM  

ElBarto79: jaylectricity: I almost feel like it's nobody's fault there was a storm and everybody should be chipping in to pay for the crews working overtime to get the power back on. So, yeah, you didn't use electricity but it's costing a lot of money to get things back to normal.

Now if insurance premiums go up, causing rates to go up, THEN I think you'd have a beef.

Wait, are you saying New Yorkers should all chip in to pay to get the power back online? The same New Yorkers who have had their homes, businesses and livelihoods completely destroyed by this hurricane and no idea what they're going to do should reach into their pockets and pay the power companies repair bills for them? What about those peoples repair bills? For their destroyed homes, cars and whatever else, who is going to chip in and help them pay those bills?


Looks like people who live in coastal areas should have insurance.

You telling me New Yorkers are just like those rednecks who live next to rivers?
 
2012-11-25 01:13:38 PM  
LIPA -- "We got bills to pay too, asshole. Pay up or we'll cut off your power when we get around to restoring it!"
 
2012-11-25 01:35:51 PM  
i dont know how about make your union workerd hmmm read the farking meters get off your lazy donunt eating @$$ and read the farking meter. unless the bill reflects the power thet you used for the period in the bill, the bill is mail fraud.
 
2012-11-25 01:44:06 PM  
I don't know if it's been mentionned, but there was an article (on Slate.com ?) that went on the main page specifically about LIPA.
25 year-old computer mainframes running cobol, tracking outages with paper maps.
Obviously the only automated system that's up to date is billing, and they let it run its course for the following billing cycle.
You still pay for the power you use, it's just that they show up 2 times a year to do a reading, so obviously no one can see you've been out of power for so long...

Smart meters aren't such a bad idea suddenly, no ?
 
2012-11-25 01:51:48 PM  

MisterTweak: who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?


To be fair, spending all day walking around checking meters is a crappy job. Get rid of it and let those people do something more productive.

The problem is not that crap jobs are going away, the problem is that the benefits of that higher efficiency are not being shared. If the US invented a device that created infinite free power without pollution, rather than a boon to mankind it would mean a dozen white guys who head a corporation (and it would be a bunch of white males) would become fabulously wealthy while a hundred thousand people lost their jobs.

/Not a communist, just a capitalist who sees the obvious need for true progressive taxation - wealth should not be shared equally, but it should be shared
 
2012-11-25 04:10:49 PM  

12349876: Satanic_Hamster: It's an estimated bill. They're not doing it manually; it's done by computer. Once the meter is read later on the bill will be corrected.

Couldn't they estimate how much you weren't using while the power was out?


Why?
 
2012-11-25 06:45:17 PM  

IlGreven: Satanic_Hamster: It's an estimated bill. They're not doing it manually; it's done by computer. Once the meter is read later on the bill will be corrected.

I_Hate_Iowa: It's not unfair practices because it will be corrected the next time there's an actual reading.

...you've never dealt with a power or gas company before, have you?


Yes, I have, in eight different states. Any other stupid assumptions or questions?
 
2012-11-25 08:33:35 PM  

GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


Aww, bless. After being comprehensively proven wrong by 3/4 of the thread, GAT_00 "forgot" to come back and admit he was talking out of his ass.
 
2012-11-26 10:00:25 AM  

PaulieattheTap: [...]FPL here in SE. FL.

Last year they upgraded my meter and they can somehow read it remotely.


I like the upgraded meters. You can go to their website and see how much electricity you are consuming at any given moment.
 
2012-11-26 12:15:50 PM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?

My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


My father-in-law works for a power co-op... it is not in fact a for-profit.
 
2012-11-27 02:35:04 AM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: Gulper Eel: simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.

The state motto of New York.

gubmint.

Had to do it. They are the ones that are billing you.

What the fark are you on? My power comes 100% from TVA and it's a county utility board that I pay for my power.

For the fool that wrote the above: About TVA
"The Tennessee Valley Authority, a corporation owned by the U.S. government provides electricity for 9 million people in parts of seven southeastern states at prices below the national average. TVA, which receives no taxpayer money and makes no profits"

It is a government entity, but because it doesn't receive taxpayer funding, it is considered quasi-federal.


Special stupid, GAT_00. Since you're unemployed, maybe you should bone up on this.
 
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