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(NYPost)   State-controlled Long Island Power Authority to customers: Here's your bill for the electricity you didn't have for two weeks after Sandy, because this is New York so you can go fark yourselves (for which you'll be billed, taxed and surcharged)   (nypost.com) divider line 155
    More: Obvious, Long Island, Long Island Power Authority, New York, Public Service Commission, Jonathan Saporta  
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13632 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Nov 2012 at 1:02 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-24 09:11:31 PM  
No power? Fark you, pay me.
 
2012-11-24 09:19:30 PM  
We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?
 
2012-11-24 09:23:44 PM  

make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?


We just a gas bill $40 over the previous bill. An "adjustment". For what, I have no idea,
 
2012-11-24 09:31:30 PM  
So the submitted link a few hours ago from the same source with arguably better headline that has more hits and had more comments gets red, but this gets green?

/not Subbsie
 
2012-11-24 09:31:39 PM  

simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.


The state motto of New York.
 
2012-11-24 09:49:57 PM  

simplicimus: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

We just a gas bill $40 over the previous bill. An "adjustment". For what, I have no idea,


Deregulation and the glories of capitalism, citizen. Revel in the glory, for you have been blessed!
 
2012-11-24 09:54:09 PM  

Gulper Eel: simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.

The state motto of New York.


gubmint.

Had to do it. They are the ones that are billing you.
 
2012-11-24 09:55:10 PM  
FTA: ""I am not paying any of my bills, that much I promise," said Saporta. "They can put me into collections, and I'll fight them tooth-and-nail."

Sure you will - in the dark.

What part of POWER don't you understand?
 
2012-11-24 09:56:37 PM  

GAT_00: simplicimus: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

We just a gas bill $40 over the previous bill. An "adjustment". For what, I have no idea,

Deregulation and the glories of capitalism, citizen. Revel in the glory, for you have been blessed!


Based on Centerpoint's website, Natural Gas price went down fractionally from last month. So I guess I just get to revel in the glory of capitalism.
 
2012-11-24 09:57:16 PM  
The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.

And if you start using more of a commodity, you will eventually end up paying more. It's really unfair.
 
2012-11-24 10:00:27 PM  
Well, do you want electricity or not? I assure you that the power company does not have any qualms about cutting your ass off.
 
2012-11-24 10:08:13 PM  
got refunds from insurance company due to over-charging, yet they've been billing same amount ever since. not gonna name company, because like a good customer, my bill pay is there.
 
2012-11-24 10:10:06 PM  

Lsherm: Gulper Eel: simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.

The state motto of New York.

gubmint.

Had to do it. They are the ones that are billing you.


What the fark are you on? My power comes 100% from TVA and it's a county utility board that I pay for my power.
 
2012-11-24 10:13:38 PM  

tin_man: The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.



On the contrary, I'm sure it went through the roof, considering the destruction of infrastructure.

Yet they bill based on consumption, not delivery, so that's the problem of the utility company and their insurance providers, isn't it?


/I smell a troll
 
2012-11-24 10:20:03 PM  

Amos Quito: /I smell a troll


It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.
 
2012-11-24 10:30:29 PM  

Amos Quito: tin_man: The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.


On the contrary, I'm sure it went through the roof, considering the destruction of infrastructure.

Yet they bill based on consumption, not delivery, so that's the problem of the utility company and their insurance providers, isn't it?


/I smell a troll


Yes, speaking of the logistics and realities behind delivering a utility, any utility, to the end user is trolling.
 
2012-11-24 10:30:47 PM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: Gulper Eel: simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.

The state motto of New York.

gubmint.

Had to do it. They are the ones that are billing you.

What the fark are you on? My power comes 100% from TVA and it's a county utility board that I pay for my power.


The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?
 
2012-11-24 11:11:47 PM  

make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?


Remember all those employees they had who trudged from place to place, making note of the meters once a month? They've been fired, and replaced with a company that does it maybe once a quarter, but estimates your usage based on similar users in your area. It's not perfect, but, who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?
 
2012-11-24 11:32:18 PM  
I almost feel like it's nobody's fault there was a storm and everybody should be chipping in to pay for the crews working overtime to get the power back on. So, yeah, you didn't use electricity but it's costing a lot of money to get things back to normal.

Now if insurance premiums go up, causing rates to go up, THEN I think you'd have a beef.
 
2012-11-24 11:37:53 PM  

tin_man: Amos Quito: tin_man: The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.


On the contrary, I'm sure it went through the roof, considering the destruction of infrastructure.

Yet they bill based on consumption, not delivery, so that's the problem of the utility company and their insurance providers, isn't it?


/I smell a troll

Yes, speaking of the logistics and realities behind delivering a utility, any utility, to the end user is trolling.



The utility bills based on CONSUMPTION (hence the METER)

As utility failed to deliver the product to the end user, the product was not consumed.
 
2012-11-24 11:39:22 PM  

MisterTweak: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

Remember all those employees they had who trudged from place to place, making note of the meters once a month? They've been fired, and replaced with a company that does it maybe once a quarter, but estimates your usage based on similar users in your area. It's not perfect, but, who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?



Can't they outsource to China?
 
2012-11-24 11:52:55 PM  

Lsherm: The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?


My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.
 
2012-11-25 12:59:47 AM  

GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


Point of Order: Some middle-sized cities like Ames, IA and Lansing, MI do have their own power/water/sewer companies. These are usually described as being "owned" by the taxpayers. Sometimes they are for-profit regulated monopolies, sometimes simply bureaus of government.
 
2012-11-25 01:03:34 AM  

RedPhoenix122: It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.


It may be, but it needs looking into--while the Post sucks for 95% of what is does--if they can raise a stink about unfair charging practices, whether private or public or private/public 'regulated monopoly,' then more power to them.
 
2012-11-25 01:04:38 AM  

Somacandra: GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.

Point of Order: Some middle-sized cities like Ames, IA and Lansing, MI do have their own power/water/sewer companies. These are usually described as being "owned" by the taxpayers. Sometimes they are for-profit regulated monopolies, sometimes simply bureaus of government.


The Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP) is the largest municipal utility in the United States, serving over four million residents.
 
2012-11-25 01:05:45 AM  
It's an estimated bill. They're not doing it manually; it's done by computer. Once the meter is read later on the bill will be corrected.

BFD.
 
2012-11-25 01:13:15 AM  
Here's my NY Post headline for this story:

ELECTROCITY!
 
2012-11-25 01:15:49 AM  
Id be more outraged but what happened is a computer spat them out and a low paid peon at the power company did his job and mailed them out.

its still wrong of course but there is no malicious intent.
 
2012-11-25 01:16:51 AM  
If they estimate your bill one month, but then take a reading the next month, it all evens out and you only pay what you owe for two months, it just wasn't accurate one month. If they estimated usage because they couldn't get out and read meters, they probably don't have a special hurricane aftermath estimation algorithm. That means you're going to get an estimated bill because they couldn't get to your meter, and it's going to be wrong because they're going to be estimating based on normal usage because they can't come up with a superstorm estimation formula on the fly. But next month when they do get back to your meter, the reading will be much lower than another estimated reading would have pegged it at. Which means this is the month your bill will be low, instead of last month when it actually would have been low.

;tldr - The total amount paid will correct itself the next chance the power company gets an actual reading. They can't get actual readings right now because of the hurricane. Their estimations algorithms aren't dynamic enough to get a post-hurricane-accurate estimated reading.

make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?


I have no idea how they can possibly get away with no actual readings at least once every six months at the bare minimum. I remember growing up we had a co-op and included the meter reading you took yourself when you paid last month's bill. It's nigh impossible to be able to cheat it because you'd have to keep fudging the numbers every month, even if you just cheat one month and now are trying to stay even. If you report the real reading even one month, all past cheats are accounted for.
 
2012-11-25 01:17:11 AM  
SOP. Welcome to reality.
 
2012-11-25 01:17:42 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: It's an estimated bill. They're not doing it manually; it's done by computer. Once the meter is read later on the bill will be corrected.


Couldn't they estimate how much you weren't using while the power was out?
 
2012-11-25 01:17:48 AM  

Somacandra: RedPhoenix122: It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.

It may be, but it needs looking into--while the Post sucks for 95% of what is does--if they can raise a stink about unfair charging practices, whether private or public or private/public 'regulated monopoly,' then more power to them.


It's not unfair practices because it will be corrected the next time there's an actual reading.
 
2012-11-25 01:18:54 AM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?

My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


Well, "power company" is a broad term. There are companies that generate the power, companies that distribute it, and companies involved in administering those two (billing, load management, etc.) In some places, one or more of those functions are run by a govenmental body, but more often, they're either a regulated or unregulated business. (full disclosure: I work in the field for a handsomely for-profit entity)

I know it absolutely horribly sucks to have no power after a bad storm, just like it doesn't help a lot when your bottom line is defined by there being large volumes of electricity being generated, delivered, and consumed. But when the lights do go out, the infrastructure actually gets really expensive - all those linemen aren't volunteers, and companies like Siemens, GE, ABB, and Bechtel aren't philanthropic organizations, they sell goods and services for large sums (the technical term is "f**king huge sacks") of money, and the guys generating the power have often committed to buy a quantity of fuel, regardless of whether they use it.

As usual, consumers don't always understand what it is they're buying, and the vendors are not very good (or motivated) to explain it. The NY Post has provided a pretty definitive example in "how to provide confusing infotainment to people who could really use some news, reporting, or analysis". Unskewed Journalism, I suppose.
 
2012-11-25 01:22:27 AM  
It's time to regulate the energy industry.
 
2012-11-25 01:23:42 AM  

Amos Quito: tin_man: The cost of bringing you that electricity right to your home didn't magically go down just because you were without it for a few days.


On the contrary, I'm sure it went through the roof, considering the destruction of infrastructure.

Yet they bill based on consumption, not delivery, so that's the problem of the utility company and their insurance providers, isn't it?


They are self insured. No one would write a policy to cover something like Sandy, and no one would pay the premiums if there was someone stupid enough to write that policy. Which means that the cost it going to come from the ratepayers. Which means there will be no willingness to raise rates to fix the infrastructure. Which means that the next storm is going to cause more and bigger outages.
 
2012-11-25 01:24:30 AM  

RedPhoenix122: Amos Quito: /I smell a troll

It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.


The power has been off for several weeks. These people have not been able to use any electricity. They are billed based on the amount they use. This month they're being charged the regular rate when they have not used anywhere near the amount of electricity they normallly use. Sounds to me like you're saying it's ok for government to screw people like this. If it were a private company screwing customers like this and not a government owned entity, the socialists on fark would be screaming bloody murder.
 
2012-11-25 01:24:42 AM  
img1.liveinternet.ru

So we'll march day and night
By the big cooling tower
They have the plant
But we have the power
 
2012-11-25 01:24:43 AM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?

My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


Boulder, CO, is currently looking into seizing the electric infrastructure within city limits through eminent domain and municipalizing their utility. The supporters are claiming that the city will be able to run it at the same or better rates than the current utility, and they will supply more renewable energy sources than the current utility. The current utility is pretty big and has all kinds of wind and solar in CO. I don't see how Boulder thinks they can do better. They're probably going to have to pay top dollar in compensation too. The utility thinks the city's reimbursement estimates are way low, and that will have to be litigated heavily.
 
2012-11-25 01:25:03 AM  
Similar thing happened to me after Wilma blew thru S. FL. I contested the first bill I got because it was exactly the same as the previous month. They finally sent someone to read the meter (I was still w/out power when he came). He asked asked if I knew I had to power. No shiat Sherlock, the whole neighborhood is still black after a week.

I received an adjusted bill with in a few days. The next bill I got was double my normal bill, called about that one. They sent a guy guy out. He asked how many days I was w/out power. I said at least one week before the end of the last bill period and probably almost a week and a half into this period. I really didn't know because I went to a hotel for about 8 days until I knew my electric was back on. He goes back to his car, calls some one and comes back and says I'll be back to read these meters for the next 2 billing cycles, you will see and adjustment in a few days. Thanks for calling us. The adjustment came and I owed $0, then it was half of normal and back to normal the next month. So I really can't complain about FPL (Flickering Power and Lights) here in SE. FL. They did me OK.

Last year they upgraded my meter and they can somehow read it remotely.
 
2012-11-25 01:25:34 AM  

jaylectricity: I almost feel like it's nobody's fault there was a storm and everybody should be chipping in to pay for the crews working overtime to get the power back on. So, yeah, you didn't use electricity but it's costing a lot of money to get things back to normal.

Now if insurance premiums go up, causing rates to go up, THEN I think you'd have a beef.


Wait, are you saying New Yorkers should all chip in to pay to get the power back online? The same New Yorkers who have had their homes, businesses and livelihoods completely destroyed by this hurricane and no idea what they're going to do should reach into their pockets and pay the power companies repair bills for them? What about those peoples repair bills? For their destroyed homes, cars and whatever else, who is going to chip in and help them pay those bills?
 
2012-11-25 01:26:38 AM  

Lsherm: GAT_00: Lsherm: Gulper Eel: simplicimus: Fark you, pay me.

The state motto of New York.

gubmint.

Had to do it. They are the ones that are billing you.

What the fark are you on? My power comes 100% from TVA and it's a county utility board that I pay for my power.

The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?


It must have been his still that blew up causing that earthquake in Kentucky.
 
2012-11-25 01:28:58 AM  

simplicimus: No power? Fark you, pay me.


Check the sauce.
 
2012-11-25 01:30:15 AM  

GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


My current electric provider (in town) is a for profit company. We get raped by them and they raise the rates every year because they need more money.

My old electric company (just outside of town) was a rural electric co-op. The people that get service through them are the share holders but you can't actually do anything with your shares. You will however get a small cut at the end of the year when they calculate the money you have put into them, their overall profit and such. Just before we moved we received a $25 check from them for that year. Their rates were considerably lower and they didn't have all the tax and add on crap that my current power company puts on the customers.

On the co-op we were paying between $50-$85 a month for electricity, on the for-profit we are paying $155 - $220 a month for the same amount of electronics running in the house. I have some friends that are getting hit with $400 electric bills, almost as much as they are paying in rent.

Satanic_Hamster: It's an estimated bill. They're not doing it manually; it's done by computer. Once the meter is read later on the bill will be corrected.


If it is anything like my current power company then the bills WILL NOT get adjusted, I would be surprised if it isn't going to cost even more on the customers. My electric company will jack up the bills to cover the over time pay for all the technicians out in the field working on major power outages, We see it when severe storms come through or icy winters.
 
2012-11-25 01:30:44 AM  

Somacandra: GAT_00: My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.

Point of Order: Some middle-sized cities like Ames, IA and Lansing, MI do have their own power/water/sewer companies. These are usually described as being "owned" by the taxpayers. Sometimes they are for-profit regulated monopolies, sometimes simply bureaus of government.


Add Knoxville, Tennessee to the list. From their most recent newsletter:

"KUB, a municipal utility (not for profit), serving Knox and parts of seven adjacent counties, provides reliable electric, gas, water, and wastewater services to about 440,000 customers."
 
2012-11-25 01:31:57 AM  

make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?


That's how basically all power companies work unless you have wireless meter readings. You have two to four readings per year, and in between those, you pay on estimated usage and the difference gets made up when your next actual reading happens.
 
2012-11-25 01:32:57 AM  

PaLarkin: RedPhoenix122: Amos Quito: /I smell a troll

It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.

The power has been off for several weeks. These people have not been able to use any electricity. They are billed based on the amount they use. This month they're being charged the regular rate when they have not used anywhere near the amount of electricity they normallly use. Sounds to me like you're saying it's ok for government to screw people like this. If it were a private company screwing customers like this and not a government owned entity, the socialists on fark would be screaming bloody murder.


All accounts will be balanced the next time there's an actual reading. It's hard to get those right after a hurricane. The estimated readings are a line of code somewhere in their billing software. You can't tweak it that fast after a hurricane to tell it to account for a hurricane in its estimates for thousands of customers.
 
2012-11-25 01:33:41 AM  

PaLarkin: RedPhoenix122: Amos Quito: /I smell a troll

It's NYPost, this is probably something blown out of proportion to gain support for privatization.

The power has been off for several weeks. These people have not been able to use any electricity. They are billed based on the amount they use. This month they're being charged the regular rate when they have not used anywhere near the amount of electricity they normallly use. Sounds to me like you're saying it's ok for government to screw people like this. If it were a private company screwing customers like this and not a government owned entity, the socialists on fark would be screaming bloody murder.


They will not be billed for power they did not use. When the meter actually gets read, the bill will be adjusted. It was probably impossible to read meters under the post-storm conditions. Nevertheless, monthly billing must be done.

So nobody is getting screwed.
 
2012-11-25 01:35:57 AM  

GAT_00: Lsherm: The county utility board isn't "gubmit"?

Are you sure you understand what the government does?

My power company, as are all power companies in the US as far as I know, is a for-profit company. That is NOT government.


Is the TVA still around?
Might still be a publicly held for profit power.
Yup, federally owned corporation. So it is the gubermint + profit.
 
2012-11-25 01:36:09 AM  

MisterTweak: make me some tea: We found out that the power companies around here don't actually read meters, they bill you estimated usage. We installed an A/C unit in the bedroom for this summer and the power bill didn't go up at all, which I did think was odd. Six months later, we got a notice that they were raising it because they figured out that we're using more than we had before, so now we are on a payment plan to pay the difference off. Awesome, right?

Remember all those employees they had who trudged from place to place, making note of the meters once a month? They've been fired, and replaced with a company that does it maybe once a quarter, but estimates your usage based on similar users in your area. It's not perfect, but, who wants to keep employees on payroll when you don't absolutely have to, right?


www.eastcountymagazine.orglh6.googleusercontent.com

A lot of them got replaced with digital "smart meters", with wireless links. And usually mesh networks too, where they just use enough transmit power to reach the next smart meter and-so-on until it gets to a more central communication point.

Naturally the quacks have come out to protest them, that somehow this is going to wirelessly poison people. Never mind the hundred cellphones you passed by today, there's a meter sending a brief data packet BESIDE YOUR HOUSE!!

Well they are yet another avenue for prying, looking for pot growers or something. And may be used to come up with more complex billing schemes for different pricing at hours of peak usage, which may get twisted into cellphone-plan complexity. But it's kind of an obvious thing that these meters will be used.

Somebody figured out how to hack them awhile back, BTW. Found there's an optical link hooked straight up to the controller's programming pins, that's the lowest level of interface and it can't protect itself against getting reflashed from there. No digital signing or anything. Doesn't require the meter to be physically opened, either.
 
2012-11-25 01:39:16 AM  

Tenatra: If it is anything like my current power company then the bills WILL NOT get adjusted, I would be surprised if it isn't going to cost even more on the customers. My electric company will jack up the bills to cover the over time pay for all the technicians out in the field working on major power outages, We see it when severe storms come through or icy winters.


It's not an adjustment, it's a correction, and it's a correction that has to happen if the utility ever takes an actual reading.

Is your electric company regulated? I don't think ours is allowed to arbitrarily raise bills based on a big storm restoration or anything like that. That cost has to already be built into the regulated rates I think.
 
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