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(AlterNet)   With law schools churning out so many lawyers, you knew this was going to happen sooner or later: Federal Judge announces wage-less job opening; calls working for him a "moral commitment"   (alternet.org) divider line 51
    More: Unlikely, law schools, job opening, federal judges, Fair Labor Standards Act, open positions, web application, morals, court system  
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6459 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Nov 2012 at 4:02 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-11-24 04:40:46 PM  
8 votes:
Unpaid Internships = Jobs for kids of wealthy parents only.

Very effective at keeping children of the poors from getting entry level experience in well paying careers
2012-11-24 04:43:52 PM  
6 votes:
An interesting precedent. Can we also eliminate salaries for congressmen, judges, and the president, on the obvious assumption that the job carries such prestige, that it is easy to find people willing to serve for free?
2012-11-24 04:21:37 PM  
6 votes:
Translation: only law students who started off rich enough to pay for law school and their living expenses out of pocket need apply.

Translation of the translation: go be poor in some other judge's chambers.

Unpaid internships of any sort are shiatty. This is the shiatty kind of shiatty, because the person who gets a clerkship with a federal judge is actually going to have a huge practical advantage over the person who doesn't.

...Which brings me to the mordant punch line: Before becoming a federal judge, William Martinez was a lawyer for the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

Ha, well, so was Clarence Thomas.
2012-11-24 02:11:37 PM  
6 votes:
Actually, according to TFA, the "moral commitment" thing was part of the firing rules - the applicant makes a "moral commitment" to stay for a year no matter what, but the judge can fire the person at will at any time.

Farking bastard. And desperate lawyers who would farking KILL for a federal clerking gig will do it. Only the ones who can afford to be without a salary, though. So, rich kids with connections.
2012-11-24 04:11:25 PM  
5 votes:
It's freaking wrong - even if it is happening to lawyers. Acceptance of this moving through a few hundred iterations over then next few years means that any meaningful career begins with a year (or two or more eventually) of unpaid servitude.
2012-11-24 07:39:04 PM  
4 votes:

Loki009: Masta Kronix: Exactly. If I was a law school grad (I'm not) I'd be willing to live off of ramen for a year in my parent basement for another year for this.

Then you're part of the problem. Grow some self-esteem and sense of self worth and start demanding better treatment and stop sacrificing for the crums people throw to you.

No, it's called weighing the costs and benefits. After a year as a law clerk for a federal judge you have many more job opportunities opened up and likely will be making $50k a year more.
Like I said earlier. I would be singing a different tune if all law clerk positions went this way but this is a case where the judge has figured out a way to add an additional opening that otherwise wouldn't exist


Sorry, if you are doing actual work for your employer then you should be getting paid, period. The fact that you are getting good experience or that it might open doors in the future doesn't really matter. I get lots of great experience at my job, I learn new things every day, and if I work hard I will have opportunities for promotions and raises in the future. They still have to pay me a salary, and if they didn't I wouldn't be showing up.

If it's suddenly ok to stiff people on pay if you can prove you're providing them enough good experience and future opportunities then what's to stop universities from requiring tenure track professors to work for free? "Hey these positions are highly competitive, if you stick with it for 5 years you'll probably make tenure!!" Or requiring top managers at large corporations to work for free for a year or two while they get more experience for a big promotion? You could even look at lowly positions like McDonalds cooks, hey that company offers people good experience they can put on a resume, and they have the opportunity to become a franchisee if they stick with it and work hard!!

Sorry, but "experience" is not a legitimate excuse to pay someone zero who is providing a monetarily significant service for you. Experience is something that goes along with any job, anywhere, it's a side benefit.
2012-11-24 04:30:40 PM  
4 votes:

Fizpez: It's freaking wrong - even if it is happening to lawyers. Acceptance of this moving through a few hundred iterations over then next few years means that any meaningful career begins with a year (or two or more eventually) of unpaid servitude.


The problem is that if this becomes a common occurrence why would any employers keep people on after that initial free work period when they can just fire them and hire on someone else who will work for another year for free.

Sure one could argue that you get what you paid for but after having worked for a large cell phone company for several years I witnessed first hand that management doesn't care about quality of service.
2012-11-24 05:13:08 PM  
3 votes:

Massa Damnata: Kinda funny its happening to lawyers. I'm trying to feel some outrage....really


Don't think I'm picking on you because I clicked your comment to respond to, however, I think everyone on this thread needs to be reminded that not all lawyers are corporate lawyers. There are lawyers who work for legal aid and similar groups. Such lawyers work with the indigent, with domestic violence victims, with people trying to save their homes from foreclosure, and with veterans who have been wrongfully denied their benefits. The legal field is big and encompasses a lot of different areas and many different kinds of people.
2012-11-24 05:06:14 PM  
3 votes:
Unpaid internships, working for free with the "promise" of a better future.

Probably why the US has one of the worst Economic Mobility of most 1st world countries.

http://morallowground.com/2012/01/05/americans-enjoy-less-economic-mo b ility-than-canadians-europeans/

We really are a bunch of farking idiots in the US for the most part.

Science, logic and reason have been replaced with religious zealotry, ignorance and beliefs.
2012-11-24 05:02:42 PM  
3 votes:

cman: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Unpaid Internships = Jobs for kids of wealthy parents only.

Very effective at keeping children of the poors from getting entry level experience in well paying careers

Yes, it is a conspiracy. The reptilian folk refuse to let humans get into any position of power.


Whether it's intentional or not unpaid internships like this are a huge barrier to people whose parents can't bankroll them, pretty much the only people who can do this are children of wealthy parents. Want to be an intern for a Rep or Senator as a stepping stone to getting into politics? Do you have enough spare cash to pay rent and living costs in DC for a year? If not no internship for you. Intern for a judge? Only if you have the $$$ lying about in a trust fund. Newspaper/News-Site internship? If your parents aren't wealthy I hope your parents live in New York and are OK paying for your meals and transportation for the next year.

If you don't have access to money to support yourself for a year or more none of these opportunities are available to you, because you will starve. Then when you and someone with the internship are both going for the paid jobs... Sucks to be you. Such a system flies in the face of anything resembling a mertiocracy.
2012-11-24 02:08:40 PM  
3 votes:
This judge should be immediately removed from office by whatever means necessary.
2012-11-24 10:40:49 PM  
2 votes:

al's hat: Super Chronic: al's hat: Super Chronic: On the other hand, the judge isn't paying salaries from his own pocket. He has a taxpayer-funded budget and I'm sure he'd be happy to have a paid clerk if the budget allowed it. It's either this or not have a clerk at all, most likely. So what would people rather have: an opportunity available only to a few, or no opportunity at all?

I'm sure the judge would be more than happy to have an additional unpaid intern to go along with the two paid ones...as the article stated.

Fine, but it doesn't change my premise by one iota. He had the budget for two, and I'm sure he would have happily paid a third if he had the budget for it. If he paid 100 clerks and offered this to a potential #101 it would still be the same. Whatever it is: compare {state of the world without this opportunity} with {state of the world with this opportunity}, and I cannot see any justification for preferring the former.

Judges at this level have a staff to help them do their jobs. While clerks actually perform some real work, the position they fill isn't necessary. I liken it to the summer associates we had at the law firm I worked for. When the summer associates left at the end of the summer they weren't replaced. Their work went back to the regular associates and legal assistants whose load they somewhat lightened while they were there. Judicial clerk internships are a great opportunity for a law student but they provide very little real substance for a judge other than perhaps repaying or currying favor from someone with power and influence whose bright little crotchfruit wants to be a lawyer in the big leagues. There's no real social benefit or altruistic value in judge clerkships. Your premise is based on an optimistic view and assumptions and kudos to you for that but we as citizens don't benefit either way. The state of the world doesn't come into play, sorry to burst your bubble. :(


Uh, what? That's not true at all. Clerks ARE the staff for a judge. They have a secretary as well, and the court itself has support staff, but in terms of actual staff for the judge that are qualified to do anything other than purely administrative work, it's the clerks and no one else.

And staffs are small. Appeals judges, including members of SCOTUS, get to hire five- the secretary and 4 clerks. District court gets three hires, and bankruptcy and magistrates get all of two. Clerks do real work, and they get a lot of it. It's not an internship, nor anything close to one.
2012-11-24 08:03:15 PM  
2 votes:
I will go a step further on this too. If paying someone a wage of zero is OK if you offer them really good experience and future opportunities why not take it a step further? For TOP position maybe you could charge your employees for the privilege of working for you!

What about a top position as an aid to a senator or something? I mean that's a huge opportunity that could open a lot of doors in the future. Making a contribution of say 25 k for a one year position would not be out of line right?

Or what about an internship at Google? I mean if you intern there you have a good chance at getting a job there, or founding your own startup later, something. That's a huge opportunity!! paying Google ten thousand bucks for the privilege of doing some coding work for them for a few summers is money well spent, and perfectly reasonable right?

I'm just taking things to their logical conclusion here. At what point do you say "enough"? This is where the government needs to step in and set a minimum wage. If someone is doing work for you then you must pay them. It's bad enough they will be getting far below market rate for the work they are doing. When I was an intern I was doing engineering work that, had they hired a "professional" to do would probably have cost them 50 k a year, plus benefits. I was getting 8 bucks an hour, no benefits. There was really no difference between what I was doing and what a lot of the full time engineers were doing right down the hall, except they had been doing it for a little longer and had a degree.
2012-11-24 07:37:13 PM  
2 votes:

KIA: When plumbers, computer repair guys and electricians all charge $100.00 or more an hour, for some reason it's attorneys who get dumped on?

Howsabout we do away with minimum wage and unions altogether. Then we will see whose skills are worth more.

/ not bitter

// willing to entertain the alternative of limited government so fewer attorneys are needed


OK, so long as we can also strip away any limited liability for corporations. Each investor/owner is jointly and severally liable for any harm done by or debts incurred to the business.

Then we'll see whose business is worth more.
2012-11-24 07:13:32 PM  
2 votes:

Summoner101: Is clerking with judges more for lawyers wanting to work in criminal justice or is it desirable for lawyers working in any field?


Any field. Clerking for a federal judge (most especially a SCOTUS justice) is pretty much the most prestigious thing that a law student can get right out of school. A would be willing to bet a very large percentage of current federal judges, US attorneys, attorneys general, and district attorneys (along with many of the high and mightys in private firms) clerked for federal judges
2012-11-24 05:52:20 PM  
2 votes:
He had savings and he wasn't fresh out of school.


How was your nephew getting Health Insurance?

How was he getting back and forth to work?

If by Car, who was paying his insurance/car note/gas money?

Seriously you want us to believe that your nephew was able to afford all of these normal expenses for an entire year without any help and just had the money saved up to pay for all of this.
2012-11-24 05:43:33 PM  
2 votes:
Why would anyone want to do that?


Because poor people are lazy and horrible people.

Why else would they be poor?

Or at least that's what the majority of people out there think.

That and racism plays a big part. Don't you know all people on welfare drive Cadillacs and are some sort of minority?

Don't you watch FOX NEWS!! WHITE PEOPLE ARE LOOSING THIS COUNTRY TO FILTHY POORS AND MINORITIES WHARBLEGARBLE.

Or something like that :shrug:

Or something like that.
2012-11-24 05:17:35 PM  
2 votes:
"It's a cheap generosity that promises the future as compensation for the present."
2012-11-24 05:13:12 PM  
2 votes:

Super Chronic: Super Chronic: On the other hand, the judge isn't paying salaries from his own pocket. He has a taxpayer-funded budget and I'm sure he'd be happy to have a paid clerk if the budget allowed it. It's either this or not have a clerk at all, most likely. So what would people rather have: an opportunity available only to a few, or no opportunity at all?

Or I can frame the issue this way. Say there are two law students in the world, Privileged Pete and Pauper Paul. Privileged Pete is wealthy, would like the most prestigious job available to him, and is not concerned about money in the short term. Pauper Paul just wants to start earning a living. Without this clerkship available, Privileged Pete gets a job as an associate at a law firm, beating out Pauper Paul for the position. But if Privileged Pete is able to take this clerkship, the law firm job becomes available to Pauper Paul. Pauper Paul could never have taken the clerkship given his circumstances, but nevertheless, its existence has benefited him, albeit in a way he'll never see.


Except Wealthy Walter is also on the scene and did an internship at the law firm or a year and is first in line for the new job opening.
2012-11-24 05:06:52 PM  
2 votes:

AbbeySomeone: cman: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Unpaid Internships = Jobs for kids of wealthy parents only.

Very effective at keeping children of the poors from getting entry level experience in well paying careers

Yes, it is a conspiracy. The reptilian folk refuse to let humans get into any position of power.

My nephew had a gig like this a few years ago. Neither of his parents are wealthy.


Out of curiosity - was he able to live at home? I'm looking at this in the context of stuff I see in DC - if you're not working then you need several tens of thousands of dollars lying about, or access to someone who does and really likes you.
pla
2012-11-24 05:03:56 PM  
2 votes:
Apos : Unpaid internships stop being cool after college.

Unpaid internships stopped being cool after January 1, 1863.

Despite the happy fuzzy ad campaigns trying to con everyone into volunteering a year of their life away, volunteerism (and unpaid internships come in only a hair better) very literally means stealing a job away from someone who would otherwise get paid to do it. This drives wages down overall and decreases the number of paid positions available for people trying to make a living.

Somewhat funny, actually, that the oligarchy has managed to put a socialist spin on something that benefits the industrialists more than anyone else.
2012-11-24 05:02:24 PM  
2 votes:

que.guero: In the new America employers would rather hire those who don't *need* the job as those workers are invariably less motivated by wages and more motivated by doing what they want to do/are good at. Would you rather have a lawyer who is stressed about about paying off their student loans or one who can devote all their time to innovating ways to increase billable hours?

It may not be fair, but it is sound business.


Many American confectioners use a similar line of reasoning to justify buying and using cocoa produced on plantations that are worked by slaves. It isn't merely unfair. It is morally indefensible.
2012-11-24 04:57:58 PM  
2 votes:
Exactly. If I was a law school grad (I'm not) I'd be willing to live off of ramen for a year in my parent basement for another year for this.


Then you're part of the problem. Grow some self-esteem and sense of self worth and start demanding better treatment and stop sacrificing for the crums people throw to you.
2012-11-24 04:57:51 PM  
2 votes:

DeathByGeekSquad: I wish colleges would tell their students that despite having a degree in a specific field, it doesn't mean they're all worth hiring. Some people are academically capable, but practically ineffective. it's like an apathetic individual with a Psychology degree lamenting that they're not getting any job offers.


This issue has nothing to do with whether or not the applicant fails to be qualified. On the contrary, only highly qualified applicants will be considered. This issue is about unethical employers exploiting people during the second of two greatest recessions since the great depression that this country has had in my life time. The same thing happened in the 90's. There were college career counselors who accepted "placement fees" from companies to put unpaid interns to work for 40 hours a week. These interns received zero compensation. They were frequently told interning was an excellent way to build a resume and get a foot in the door to paid employment. Instead, in some industries, such as publishing, employers let paid employees go and replaced them with unpaid interns.
2012-11-24 04:45:06 PM  
2 votes:
At first I was outraged like the rest of you. But on second thought, I'm torn. This Judge is giving a third person an opportunity that otherwise wouldn't exist. A clerkship with a federal judge is a greatly valued. Yes it sucks that this is a non-paying position, but if someone has put the years into school to be a lawyer, wouldn't you consider investing one more year to obtain an elite position?
I agree that spending a year without pay is easier for someone who's rich, and that bothers me. Again, if this judge had to make this a paying position, it wouldn't exist. Is the opportunity worth the investment of a year? For many, I'm going to guess it will be. In the end, if people are willing to take this position, knowing that they won't be paid, who are we to say that they shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves?
2012-11-24 04:37:04 PM  
2 votes:

que.guero: In the new America employers would rather hire those who don't *need* the job as those workers are invariably less motivated by wages and more motivated by doing what they want to do/are good at. Would you rather have a lawyer who is stressed about about paying off their student loans or one who can devote all their time to innovating ways to increase billable hours?

It may not be fair, but it is sound business.


Cuz being born wealthy makes someone a brilliant, selfless innovator.
2012-11-24 04:34:26 PM  
2 votes:
Utter predation. Totally reprehensible.
2012-11-24 04:16:10 PM  
2 votes:
Unpaid internships stop being cool after college.
2012-11-25 11:34:04 AM  
1 votes:
In any event, I came back to the thread because I found this:

sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
2012-11-24 10:59:35 PM  
1 votes:
AKA a job only for privileged children who have parents wealthy enough to support them.
2012-11-24 08:25:34 PM  
1 votes:
Worse than Indentured Servitude. The prospective clerk gets bupkiss for his effort.
2012-11-24 08:08:10 PM  
1 votes:

ElBarto79: I will go a step further on this too. If paying someone a wage of zero is OK if you offer them really good experience and future opportunities why not take it a step further? For TOP position maybe you could charge your employees for the privilege of working for you!

What about a top position as an aid to a senator or something? I mean that's a huge opportunity that could open a lot of doors in the future. Making a contribution of say 25 k for a one year position would not be out of line right?

Or what about an internship at Google? I mean if you intern there you have a good chance at getting a job there, or founding your own startup later, something. That's a huge opportunity!! paying Google ten thousand bucks for the privilege of doing some coding work for them for a few summers is money well spent, and perfectly reasonable right?

I'm just taking things to their logical conclusion here. At what point do you say "enough"? This is where the government needs to step in and set a minimum wage. If someone is doing work for you then you must pay them. It's bad enough they will be getting far below market rate for the work they are doing. When I was an intern I was doing engineering work that, had they hired a "professional" to do would probably have cost them 50 k a year, plus benefits. I was getting 8 bucks an hour, no benefits. There was really no difference between what I was doing and what a lot of the full time engineers were doing right down the hall, except they had been doing it for a little longer and had a degree.


Actually, come to think about it, if you are paying tuition to a university that hosts the unpaid internship, that is exactly what you are doing...
2012-11-24 07:58:20 PM  
1 votes:

Loki009: BigBooper: At first I was outraged like the rest of you. But on second thought, I'm torn. This Judge is giving a third person an opportunity that otherwise wouldn't exist. A clerkship with a federal judge is a greatly valued. Yes it sucks that this is a non-paying position, but if someone has put the years into school to be a lawyer, wouldn't you consider investing one more year to obtain an elite position?
I agree that spending a year without pay is easier for someone who's rich, and that bothers me. Again, if this judge had to make this a paying position, it wouldn't exist. Is the opportunity worth the investment of a year? For many, I'm going to guess it will be. In the end, if people are willing to take this position, knowing that they won't be paid, who are we to say that they shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves?

Exactly. If I was a law school grad (I'm not) I'd be willing to live off of ramen for a year in my parent basement for another year for this.


You're assuming people have parents with basements who live in the area and can afford to give them ramen. You're assuming they already have a car to get to work, already have presentable clothing for the job, etc. An unpaid position isn't free. It has a cost. In a case like this a significant cost.
2012-11-24 07:20:57 PM  
1 votes:
An unpaid intern would not be allowed where I work. It's an insurance and security requirement, among other things. Hell, high school coop students are paid, which isn't normal. My license forbids me to work for free. It must suck to work in a profession where you are even less valued.
2012-11-24 06:44:37 PM  
1 votes:
What happens to the birth rate of the professional class once nobody makes money until their early 30s because of the decades of education and underpaid internships required to enter the professional class? How about social security solvency? How about the economy in general? $150k/year might sound like alot, but its really not when 1/3 is gone in tax and you're making $2500/month student loan payments and living in a high cost of living area and retirement is only 30 years away.
2012-11-24 06:43:51 PM  
1 votes:
It is exactly this kind of thinking that has completely screwed artists. EVERYONE seems to think that we should work for free because it would be "Great for our portfolio"...

It's insulting and stupid and it screws over artists all the time.
2012-11-24 05:59:58 PM  
1 votes:

BigBooper: At first I was outraged like the rest of you. But on second thought, I'm torn. This Judge is giving a third person an opportunity that otherwise wouldn't exist. A clerkship with a federal judge is a greatly valued. Yes it sucks that this is a non-paying position, but if someone has put the years into school to be a lawyer, wouldn't you consider investing one more year to obtain an elite position?
I agree that spending a year without pay is easier for someone who's rich, and that bothers me. Again, if this judge had to make this a paying position, it wouldn't exist. Is the opportunity worth the investment of a year? For many, I'm going to guess it will be. In the end, if people are willing to take this position, knowing that they won't be paid, who are we to say that they shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves?


Kind of this. It is an incredible opportunity that will look spectacular on a law resume. Plus the fact that, once you're out of law school and have just taken the bar and are either waiting for or have just gotten your results, nobody will hire you. All law firms and most solo practitioners want someone with a MINIMUM of 2-5 years experience--and your law school internships don't count. A year of federal judicial clerkship might, especially if you can get a good letter of reference out of the judge to go with it.

If you can talk your parents or friends into free rent, and don't mind living without health insurance and living on ramen for the year; or doing contract work on the side or working nights in retail (all options my friends are using)--then take the clerkship. You have to keep your eyes on the long term, long term being the extra $2500/mo you're going to need to pay off your student loans.
2012-11-24 05:49:12 PM  
1 votes:
He had savings and he wasn't fresh out of school.


So you're telling us that your nephew had enough money saved to pay for everything for an entire year without any assistance or help.

Was he living at home with his folks or paying a mortgage/rent the entire time?

Seriously details matter. What was your nephew actually paying for the entire year?
2012-11-24 05:39:51 PM  
1 votes:
Good luck filling that Job your honor. No pay and they can be fired at anytime for anything? sorry can't see many if anyone interested especially as many may have large amounts of student loan debt to pay off.

This kind of a job maybe the key to getting into a lucrative job in a major law firm but with no pay many can't afford to take it,


That's the whole point.

Only those who are well off in life will be able to "afford" unpaid internships thus once again keeping the cycle of poor staying poor and rich staying rich until people finally realize what is going on.

Can't get the best jobs unless you can afford to work for free for a year.

Can't afford to work for free for a year, tough shiat go be poor somewhere else.
2012-11-24 05:35:06 PM  
1 votes:

Masta Kronix: No, he was in another state. He got a great job out of it.

How was your nephew able to support himself during this unpaid internship?


I'd like to see the answer to this question as well.
Even among people who have the parental support to work a full-time, unpaid internship it is still exploitation. Not only is it exploitation of the individual, it is exploitation of the parents. Particularly in the case of corporate internships, wealthy or not, why should parents subsidize a corporation?
I have children on the cusp of their teen years. Am I now expected to provide for them through out their childhoods, send them to college, send them to grad school, and subsidize their first year of "employment"? My attitude is "How about 'NO'?"
2012-11-24 05:28:40 PM  
1 votes:
Given the prestige to the openings and the doors it opens I am not going to shed a tear over the 125k a year they will make at a firm after this.


Look look look I know for the first year we bent you over the table and ass raped you repeatedly but now we're gonna pay you actual money now!!

You should be thankful!!! Aren't we such nice people!!!
2012-11-24 05:22:07 PM  
1 votes:

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Super Chronic: Super Chronic: On the other hand, the judge isn't paying salaries from his own pocket. He has a taxpayer-funded budget and I'm sure he'd be happy to have a paid clerk if the budget allowed it. It's either this or not have a clerk at all, most likely. So what would people rather have: an opportunity available only to a few, or no opportunity at all?

Or I can frame the issue this way. Say there are two law students in the world, Privileged Pete and Pauper Paul. Privileged Pete is wealthy, would like the most prestigious job available to him, and is not concerned about money in the short term. Pauper Paul just wants to start earning a living. Without this clerkship available, Privileged Pete gets a job as an associate at a law firm, beating out Pauper Paul for the position. But if Privileged Pete is able to take this clerkship, the law firm job becomes available to Pauper Paul. Pauper Paul could never have taken the clerkship given his circumstances, but nevertheless, its existence has benefited him, albeit in a way he'll never see.

Except Wealthy Walter is also on the scene and did an internship at the law firm or a year and is first in line for the new job opening.


And Pauper Paul will have a thinner resume. In addition to having a thinner resume, he will be repeatedly subjected to an asinine and cruel line of questioning wherein it will be implied that he is lazy or lacks commitment.
2012-11-24 05:17:07 PM  
1 votes:
Do you also believe that GMO's cause cancer and autism is caused by vaccines? How about 9/11, was it an inside job? Are you one of those people who believe that Obama was born in Kenya?


Yes because I understand that being poor in the US does actually drastically restrict that persons life I also believe in conspiracy theories :lol:

Go read a book or something. Seriously educate yourself.
2012-11-24 05:16:22 PM  
1 votes:

AbbeySomeone: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: AbbeySomeone: cman: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Unpaid Internships = Jobs for kids of wealthy parents only.

Very effective at keeping children of the poors from getting entry level experience in well paying careers

Yes, it is a conspiracy. The reptilian folk refuse to let humans get into any position of power.

My nephew had a gig like this a few years ago. Neither of his parents are wealthy.

Out of curiosity - was he able to live at home? I'm looking at this in the context of stuff I see in DC - if you're not working then you need several tens of thousands of dollars lying about, or access to someone who does and really likes you.

No, he was in another state. He got a great job out of it.


Congrats to him.

Out of curiosity - again, this is coming from the perspective of someone used to high cost of living areas, how did he earn enough for food and accommodation for a year (or however long) if he was working full time for his unpaid internship?
2012-11-24 05:07:53 PM  
1 votes:

Lord Zoranov: Sure one could argue that you get what you paid for but after having worked for a large cell phone company for several years I witnessed first hand that management doesn't care about quality of service.


I did cellphone support for a couple of years. I know exactly what you're talking about.
2012-11-24 05:02:46 PM  
1 votes:
Yes, it is a conspiracy. The reptilian folk refuse to let humans get into any position of power.


Or it could be the system genuinely is set up in a way that makes it much more difficult for poor people to succeed.

You need money to make it ahead in life, so it bears to reason those who don't have any money will have that much more difficult of a time making it ahead.

It's not that difficult if you actually use more than 2 brain cells but I know that's asking a lot from you evidently.
2012-11-24 04:48:22 PM  
1 votes:
cdn.bleacherreport.net

Moral

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/Your honor, I don't think these words mean what you think they mean.
2012-11-24 04:22:40 PM  
1 votes:
I wish colleges would tell their students that despite having a degree in a specific field, it doesn't mean they're all worth hiring. Some people are academically capable, but practically ineffective. it's like an apathetic individual with a Psychology degree lamenting that they're not getting any job offers.
2012-11-24 04:19:41 PM  
1 votes:

Fizpez: It's freaking wrong - even if it is happening to lawyers. Acceptance of this moving through a few hundred iterations over then next few years means that any meaningful career begins with a year (or two or more eventually) of unpaid servitude.


I have not heard a single good argument why people should be paid wages at all. Wages inhibit the ability of the job creators to provide prosperity. Why should someone be obliged to provide a living wage if someone will scrub the coal mines for free?
2012-11-24 04:06:33 PM  
1 votes:
Kinda funny its happening to lawyers. I'm trying to feel some outrage....really
2012-11-24 03:06:37 PM  
1 votes:
Supply and demand at play, folks

When you have a large pool vying for few positions employers really dont have to offer you shiat. There really isn't anything that can be done about that.
 
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