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(AlterNet)   With law schools churning out so many lawyers, you knew this was going to happen sooner or later: Federal Judge announces wage-less job opening; calls working for him a "moral commitment"   ( alternet.org) divider line
    More: Unlikely, law schools, job opening, federal judges, Fair Labor Standards Act, open positions, web application, morals, court system  
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6490 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Nov 2012 at 4:02 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-24 06:43:00 PM  

EyeHateOnlineIdiots: the USA might turn into a democracy some day, but only after every federal judge is hanging from a rope


If you mean democracy in the original sense of mob rule, then yes.
 
2012-11-24 06:43:51 PM  
It is exactly this kind of thinking that has completely screwed artists. EVERYONE seems to think that we should work for free because it would be "Great for our portfolio"...

It's insulting and stupid and it screws over artists all the time.
 
2012-11-24 06:44:37 PM  
What happens to the birth rate of the professional class once nobody makes money until their early 30s because of the decades of education and underpaid internships required to enter the professional class? How about social security solvency? How about the economy in general? $150k/year might sound like alot, but its really not when 1/3 is gone in tax and you're making $2500/month student loan payments and living in a high cost of living area and retirement is only 30 years away.
 
2012-11-24 06:47:06 PM  

Gordon Bennett: Unpaid work? Welcome to the film industry.


amateur porn industry?
 
2012-11-24 06:47:12 PM  

LiberalEastCoastElitist: What happens to the birth rate of the professional class once nobody makes money until their early 30s because of the decades of education and underpaid internships required to enter the professional class? How about social security solvency? How about the economy in general? $150k/year might sound like alot, but its really not when 1/3 is gone in tax and you're making $2500/month student loan payments and living in a high cost of living area and retirement is only 30 years away.


www.voght.org
 
2012-11-24 06:50:16 PM  

jayphat: Am I the only person working for a company where the interns are actually paid?


I was paid as an intern working summers while at college ~15/hour, 40 hours a week with an additional $5k/year sponsorship on the agreement I'd work there after graduation. This was about 10 years ago.

I just think its messed up that we're rapidly headed to a situation that put seven more barriers to entry to kids who weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths, particularly given some of the areas where unpaid internships are more the norm.
 
2012-11-24 06:54:51 PM  
What's next? Unpaid whores?
 
2012-11-24 06:55:37 PM  

phrawgh: What's next? Unpaid whores?


omg.. I hope so... as long as they swing both ways
 
2012-11-24 06:58:12 PM  

Candygram4Mongo: An interesting precedent. Can we also eliminate salaries for congressmen, judges, and the president, on the obvious assumption that the job carries such prestige, that it is easy to find people willing to serve for free?


I have the opposite idea, pay those guys a buttload of money, enough that they don't need to beg wealthy people for cash and try to work an high paying lobbyist gig or 'consulting' gig when out of office. And better, pay politicians to run in the general election. That's right, pay them. Win the primary, then you job is running for office and the government pays a salary.
 
2012-11-24 07:06:17 PM  

gibbon1: Candygram4Mongo: An interesting precedent. Can we also eliminate salaries for congressmen, judges, and the president, on the obvious assumption that the job carries such prestige, that it is easy to find people willing to serve for free?

I have the opposite idea, pay those guys a buttload of money, enough that they don't need to beg wealthy people for cash and try to work an high paying lobbyist gig or 'consulting' gig when out of office. And better, pay politicians to run in the general election. That's right, pay them. Win the primary, then you job is running for office and the government pays a salary.


it would never be enough. greed knows no ceiling.
 
2012-11-24 07:13:07 PM  

BigBooper: At first I was outraged like the rest of you. But on second thought, I'm torn. This Judge is giving a third person an opportunity that otherwise wouldn't exist. A clerkship with a federal judge is a greatly valued. Yes it sucks that this is a non-paying position, but if someone has put the years into school to be a lawyer, wouldn't you consider investing one more year to obtain an elite position?
I agree that spending a year without pay is easier for someone who's rich, and that bothers me. Again, if this judge had to make this a paying position, it wouldn't exist. Is the opportunity worth the investment of a year? For many, I'm going to guess it will be. In the end, if people are willing to take this position, knowing that they won't be paid, who are we to say that they shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves?


This. John Stossel wrote a story about unpaid interns at NBC (IIRC). The decision was made at some point to start paying them, and as a result, far fewer interns were hired.

Maybe instead of crying about how people are abused, we should let them decide for themselves whether the experience gained in an unpaid position is worth it.
 
2012-11-24 07:13:32 PM  

Summoner101: Is clerking with judges more for lawyers wanting to work in criminal justice or is it desirable for lawyers working in any field?


Any field. Clerking for a federal judge (most especially a SCOTUS justice) is pretty much the most prestigious thing that a law student can get right out of school. A would be willing to bet a very large percentage of current federal judges, US attorneys, attorneys general, and district attorneys (along with many of the high and mightys in private firms) clerked for federal judges
 
2012-11-24 07:15:08 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: So, rich kids with connections.


Came for this.
 
2012-11-24 07:16:37 PM  

Super Chronic: al's hat: Super Chronic: On the other hand, the judge isn't paying salaries from his own pocket. He has a taxpayer-funded budget and I'm sure he'd be happy to have a paid clerk if the budget allowed it. It's either this or not have a clerk at all, most likely. So what would people rather have: an opportunity available only to a few, or no opportunity at all?

I'm sure the judge would be more than happy to have an additional unpaid intern to go along with the two paid ones...as the article stated.

Fine, but it doesn't change my premise by one iota. He had the budget for two, and I'm sure he would have happily paid a third if he had the budget for it. If he paid 100 clerks and offered this to a potential #101 it would still be the same. Whatever it is: compare {state of the world without this opportunity} with {state of the world with this opportunity}, and I cannot see any justification for preferring the former.


Judges at this level have a staff to help them do their jobs. While clerks actually perform some real work, the position they fill isn't necessary. I liken it to the summer associates we had at the law firm I worked for. When the summer associates left at the end of the summer they weren't replaced. Their work went back to the regular associates and legal assistants whose load they somewhat lightened while they were there. Judicial clerk internships are a great opportunity for a law student but they provide very little real substance for a judge other than perhaps repaying or currying favor from someone with power and influence whose bright little crotchfruit wants to be a lawyer in the big leagues. There's no real social benefit or altruistic value in judge clerkships. Your premise is based on an optimistic view and assumptions and kudos to you for that but we as citizens don't benefit either way. The state of the world doesn't come into play, sorry to burst your bubble. :(
 
2012-11-24 07:20:57 PM  
An unpaid intern would not be allowed where I work. It's an insurance and security requirement, among other things. Hell, high school coop students are paid, which isn't normal. My license forbids me to work for free. It must suck to work in a profession where you are even less valued.
 
2012-11-24 07:21:03 PM  
"We hear much of the civilization and christianization of the barbarous tribes of lawyers. In my judgment, those ends will never be attained, but by first teaching them the lesson taught to Adam, that "in the sweat of his brow he should eat his bread," and teaching them to work, and feed, and clothe themselves."

--Alexander Stephens, 1861
 
2012-11-24 07:22:05 PM  
Just call it an internship and avoid the bad publicity.
 
2012-11-24 07:28:43 PM  

Rostin: BigBooper: At first I was outraged like the rest of you. But on second thought, I'm torn. This Judge is giving a third person an opportunity that otherwise wouldn't exist. A clerkship with a federal judge is a greatly valued. Yes it sucks that this is a non-paying position, but if someone has put the years into school to be a lawyer, wouldn't you consider investing one more year to obtain an elite position?
I agree that spending a year without pay is easier for someone who's rich, and that bothers me. Again, if this judge had to make this a paying position, it wouldn't exist. Is the opportunity worth the investment of a year? For many, I'm going to guess it will be. In the end, if people are willing to take this position, knowing that they won't be paid, who are we to say that they shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves?

This. John Stossel wrote a story about unpaid interns at NBC (IIRC). The decision was made at some point to start paying them, and as a result, far fewer interns were hired.

Maybe instead of crying about how people are abused, we should let them decide for themselves whether the experience gained in an unpaid position is worth it.


If it made little difference whether or not the interns were there to the company, it sounds like they were making coffee and fetching print jobs and other worthless activities for free. Also, are you unaware that the company might pretty much just lie about the experience the interns will gain? Or maybe instead of hiring a new entery level lawyer they'll split that job among four free interns.
 
2012-11-24 07:37:13 PM  

KIA: When plumbers, computer repair guys and electricians all charge $100.00 or more an hour, for some reason it's attorneys who get dumped on?

Howsabout we do away with minimum wage and unions altogether. Then we will see whose skills are worth more.

/ not bitter

// willing to entertain the alternative of limited government so fewer attorneys are needed


OK, so long as we can also strip away any limited liability for corporations. Each investor/owner is jointly and severally liable for any harm done by or debts incurred to the business.

Then we'll see whose business is worth more.
 
2012-11-24 07:39:04 PM  

Loki009: Masta Kronix: Exactly. If I was a law school grad (I'm not) I'd be willing to live off of ramen for a year in my parent basement for another year for this.

Then you're part of the problem. Grow some self-esteem and sense of self worth and start demanding better treatment and stop sacrificing for the crums people throw to you.

No, it's called weighing the costs and benefits. After a year as a law clerk for a federal judge you have many more job opportunities opened up and likely will be making $50k a year more.
Like I said earlier. I would be singing a different tune if all law clerk positions went this way but this is a case where the judge has figured out a way to add an additional opening that otherwise wouldn't exist


Sorry, if you are doing actual work for your employer then you should be getting paid, period. The fact that you are getting good experience or that it might open doors in the future doesn't really matter. I get lots of great experience at my job, I learn new things every day, and if I work hard I will have opportunities for promotions and raises in the future. They still have to pay me a salary, and if they didn't I wouldn't be showing up.

If it's suddenly ok to stiff people on pay if you can prove you're providing them enough good experience and future opportunities then what's to stop universities from requiring tenure track professors to work for free? "Hey these positions are highly competitive, if you stick with it for 5 years you'll probably make tenure!!" Or requiring top managers at large corporations to work for free for a year or two while they get more experience for a big promotion? You could even look at lowly positions like McDonalds cooks, hey that company offers people good experience they can put on a resume, and they have the opportunity to become a franchisee if they stick with it and work hard!!

Sorry, but "experience" is not a legitimate excuse to pay someone zero who is providing a monetarily significant service for you. Experience is something that goes along with any job, anywhere, it's a side benefit.
 
2012-11-24 07:53:25 PM  

diaphoresis: phrawgh: What's next? Unpaid whores?

omg.. I hope so... as long as they swing both ways


Don't we have that already...except the word is "slut"?
 
2012-11-24 07:54:18 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: Benevolent Misanthrope: So, rich kids with connections.

Came for this.


Might want to rephrase that.
 
2012-11-24 07:58:20 PM  

Loki009: BigBooper: At first I was outraged like the rest of you. But on second thought, I'm torn. This Judge is giving a third person an opportunity that otherwise wouldn't exist. A clerkship with a federal judge is a greatly valued. Yes it sucks that this is a non-paying position, but if someone has put the years into school to be a lawyer, wouldn't you consider investing one more year to obtain an elite position?
I agree that spending a year without pay is easier for someone who's rich, and that bothers me. Again, if this judge had to make this a paying position, it wouldn't exist. Is the opportunity worth the investment of a year? For many, I'm going to guess it will be. In the end, if people are willing to take this position, knowing that they won't be paid, who are we to say that they shouldn't be allowed to choose for themselves?

Exactly. If I was a law school grad (I'm not) I'd be willing to live off of ramen for a year in my parent basement for another year for this.


You're assuming people have parents with basements who live in the area and can afford to give them ramen. You're assuming they already have a car to get to work, already have presentable clothing for the job, etc. An unpaid position isn't free. It has a cost. In a case like this a significant cost.
 
2012-11-24 07:58:58 PM  
Although Judge Martinez isn't going to pay the successful applicant, and reserves the right to fire this person arbitrarily at any time, the judge is asking whoever takes the job "to morally commit to the position for one year." (In other words, don't think for a moment it's OK to quit this non-paying job just because a paying job comes along.) As an added extra bonus, the posting states unequivocally that "there is no possibility of the position turning into a paid position with Judge Martinez."

Please let me know who takes this guy up on this "job" so I know to never go to them for legal help. What is Martinez going to do if you walk off the "job"? Refuse to release your last $0.00 paycheck?
 
2012-11-24 08:01:57 PM  
Yes, this was indeed bound to happen when you have law schools like Mississippi College of Law giving out legal educations. No one will pay to hire people who have a degree from a place like that, but those schools will definitely take poor saps' money.

Here's my advice to all budding lawyers: if you can't go to a Top 14 institution or have some means of avoiding the inevitable, crushing debt (like living from your parents' home), don't go to law school. It's not worth sacrificing three of the most productive years of your life just to say you have a law degree. Go do something else.
 
2012-11-24 08:02:49 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: What is Martinez going to do if you walk off the "job"? Refuse to release your last $0.00 paycheck?


No reference. Your time working for him would mean nothing.
 
2012-11-24 08:03:15 PM  
I will go a step further on this too. If paying someone a wage of zero is OK if you offer them really good experience and future opportunities why not take it a step further? For TOP position maybe you could charge your employees for the privilege of working for you!

What about a top position as an aid to a senator or something? I mean that's a huge opportunity that could open a lot of doors in the future. Making a contribution of say 25 k for a one year position would not be out of line right?

Or what about an internship at Google? I mean if you intern there you have a good chance at getting a job there, or founding your own startup later, something. That's a huge opportunity!! paying Google ten thousand bucks for the privilege of doing some coding work for them for a few summers is money well spent, and perfectly reasonable right?

I'm just taking things to their logical conclusion here. At what point do you say "enough"? This is where the government needs to step in and set a minimum wage. If someone is doing work for you then you must pay them. It's bad enough they will be getting far below market rate for the work they are doing. When I was an intern I was doing engineering work that, had they hired a "professional" to do would probably have cost them 50 k a year, plus benefits. I was getting 8 bucks an hour, no benefits. There was really no difference between what I was doing and what a lot of the full time engineers were doing right down the hall, except they had been doing it for a little longer and had a degree.
 
2012-11-24 08:04:10 PM  
I wonder if all his peers think, "oh yeah, Martinez, what an idiot...god help any kid that's taught to be just like him, because none of us want a mini-Martinez in our office..."
 
2012-11-24 08:05:52 PM  

ElBarto79:

Or what about an internship at Google? I mean if you intern there you have a good chance at getting a job there, or founding your own startup later, something. That's a huge opportunity!! paying Google ten thousand bucks for the privilege of doing some coding work for them for a few summers is money well spent, and perfectly reasonable right?


Google pays software engineering interns over $6800 a month.
 
2012-11-24 08:08:10 PM  

ElBarto79: I will go a step further on this too. If paying someone a wage of zero is OK if you offer them really good experience and future opportunities why not take it a step further? For TOP position maybe you could charge your employees for the privilege of working for you!

What about a top position as an aid to a senator or something? I mean that's a huge opportunity that could open a lot of doors in the future. Making a contribution of say 25 k for a one year position would not be out of line right?

Or what about an internship at Google? I mean if you intern there you have a good chance at getting a job there, or founding your own startup later, something. That's a huge opportunity!! paying Google ten thousand bucks for the privilege of doing some coding work for them for a few summers is money well spent, and perfectly reasonable right?

I'm just taking things to their logical conclusion here. At what point do you say "enough"? This is where the government needs to step in and set a minimum wage. If someone is doing work for you then you must pay them. It's bad enough they will be getting far below market rate for the work they are doing. When I was an intern I was doing engineering work that, had they hired a "professional" to do would probably have cost them 50 k a year, plus benefits. I was getting 8 bucks an hour, no benefits. There was really no difference between what I was doing and what a lot of the full time engineers were doing right down the hall, except they had been doing it for a little longer and had a degree.


Actually, come to think about it, if you are paying tuition to a university that hosts the unpaid internship, that is exactly what you are doing...
 
2012-11-24 08:10:16 PM  

Impaciente1: Here's my advice to all budding lawyers: if you can't go to a Top 14 institution or have some means of avoiding the inevitable, crushing debt (like living from your parents' home), don't go to law school. It's not worth sacrificing three of the most productive years of your life just to say you have a law degree.


Ehh, actually regional schools count, too.

A particular example I am familiar with - Loyola Chicago may not be a national powerhouse, but in Chicagoland it's a recognized and valuable brand. I work with a lot of Loyola grads who make a very good living.
 
2012-11-24 08:11:37 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: ElBarto79:

Or what about an internship at Google? I mean if you intern there you have a good chance at getting a job there, or founding your own startup later, something. That's a huge opportunity!! paying Google ten thousand bucks for the privilege of doing some coding work for them for a few summers is money well spent, and perfectly reasonable right?

Google pays software engineering interns over $6800 a month.


But having Google on your resume is so valuable, software companies will be tripping over themselves to hire you. Google shouldn't pay their interns anything. Believe me those internships are so coveted there will be no shortage of applicants, even at a price point of zero.
 
2012-11-24 08:19:50 PM  

Fizpez: It's freaking wrong - even if it is happening to lawyers. Acceptance of this moving through a few hundred iterations over then next few years means that any meaningful career begins with a year (or two or more eventually) of unpaid servitude.


Unpaid servitude is even worse than grad school, where you get almost enough to live (if you eat nothing but ramen and live with three roommates).
 
2012-11-24 08:21:14 PM  

ElBarto79: I will go a step further on this too. If paying someone a wage of zero is OK if you offer them really good experience and future opportunities why not take it a step further? For TOP position maybe you could charge your employees for the privilege of working for you!


Yes, I believe that is an internship worked for academic credit. Typically, the student may not accept payment and must pay the university for so many credit hours in order to receive academic credit. It works out very nicely for the universities. I think it also points us to the source of the unethical practice of expecting people to work for free.
 
2012-11-24 08:22:00 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: LouDobbsAwaaaay: What is Martinez going to do if you walk off the "job"? Refuse to release your last $0.00 paycheck?

No reference. Your time working for him would mean nothing.


I was under the impression that this pledge was meant to keep people from taking off if a real job-offer came around. If you're being asked to drop this "job" to pick up paid work, what can he do? Who gives a shiat if he won't provide a reference - you've got a job offer already.
 
2012-11-24 08:25:34 PM  
Worse than Indentured Servitude. The prospective clerk gets bupkiss for his effort.
 
2012-11-24 08:34:46 PM  

Rozinante: An unpaid intern would not be allowed where I work. It's an insurance and security requirement, among other things. Hell, high school coop students are paid, which isn't normal. My license forbids me to work for free. It must suck to work in a profession where you are even less valued.


Slaves have always been highly prized throughout history.
 
2012-11-24 08:41:24 PM  

Ishidan: StoPPeRmobile: Benevolent Misanthrope: So, rich kids with connections.

Came for this.

Might want to rephrase that.


It would'nt be funny then.
 
2012-11-24 08:48:18 PM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: this is a funny article because my friends and i all had several interviews for paid internships. of course, we didn't major in liberal arts and then try to dig our way out by going to law school. a good rule of thumb for choosing a major is anything that has more than 25% women is useless. exception for nursing of course.


My class of almost 30 physicists included 9 women.

\Yes, our year was weird.
 
2012-11-24 08:57:00 PM  

diaphoresis: Gordon Bennett: Unpaid work? Welcome to the film industry.

amateur porn industry?


No- Porn pays.

No reference. Your time working for him would mean nothing.

perfect - do you really think he's going to write a glowing reference anyway?

last year - can't remember where-made regional news, perhaps national news - young attractive female lawyer busted for hooking. My thought was, musta gotten tired of Ramen and wanted Lucky Charms for breakfast.
 
2012-11-24 09:16:55 PM  

phrawgh: What's next? Unpaid whores?


Those are wives.
 
2012-11-24 09:38:05 PM  

Gyrfalcon: phrawgh: What's next? Unpaid whores?

Those are wives.


You really think husbands don't pay for it in one way or another?
 
2012-11-24 10:29:02 PM  

Gyrfalcon: phrawgh: What's next? Unpaid whores?

Those are wives.


I just got you a damn dishwasher and ironing board. Aren't you ever happy?
 
2012-11-24 10:40:49 PM  

al's hat: Super Chronic: al's hat: Super Chronic: On the other hand, the judge isn't paying salaries from his own pocket. He has a taxpayer-funded budget and I'm sure he'd be happy to have a paid clerk if the budget allowed it. It's either this or not have a clerk at all, most likely. So what would people rather have: an opportunity available only to a few, or no opportunity at all?

I'm sure the judge would be more than happy to have an additional unpaid intern to go along with the two paid ones...as the article stated.

Fine, but it doesn't change my premise by one iota. He had the budget for two, and I'm sure he would have happily paid a third if he had the budget for it. If he paid 100 clerks and offered this to a potential #101 it would still be the same. Whatever it is: compare {state of the world without this opportunity} with {state of the world with this opportunity}, and I cannot see any justification for preferring the former.

Judges at this level have a staff to help them do their jobs. While clerks actually perform some real work, the position they fill isn't necessary. I liken it to the summer associates we had at the law firm I worked for. When the summer associates left at the end of the summer they weren't replaced. Their work went back to the regular associates and legal assistants whose load they somewhat lightened while they were there. Judicial clerk internships are a great opportunity for a law student but they provide very little real substance for a judge other than perhaps repaying or currying favor from someone with power and influence whose bright little crotchfruit wants to be a lawyer in the big leagues. There's no real social benefit or altruistic value in judge clerkships. Your premise is based on an optimistic view and assumptions and kudos to you for that but we as citizens don't benefit either way. The state of the world doesn't come into play, sorry to burst your bubble. :(


Uh, what? That's not true at all. Clerks ARE the staff for a judge. They have a secretary as well, and the court itself has support staff, but in terms of actual staff for the judge that are qualified to do anything other than purely administrative work, it's the clerks and no one else.

And staffs are small. Appeals judges, including members of SCOTUS, get to hire five- the secretary and 4 clerks. District court gets three hires, and bankruptcy and magistrates get all of two. Clerks do real work, and they get a lot of it. It's not an internship, nor anything close to one.
 
2012-11-24 10:49:40 PM  
So it slavery for a little while? Like the Greeks?
 
2012-11-24 10:59:35 PM  
AKA a job only for privileged children who have parents wealthy enough to support them.
 
2012-11-24 11:07:09 PM  

jaytkay: Impa


Absolutely. Some lesser known schools can still lead their graduates to lucrative, successful careers. But they are more of a gamble in that regard, and while the education at Loyola may be good (I'm basing that off the assumption that it's a Jesuit school) there are a ton of shady places willing to put "J.D." behind applicants' names solely as a way of making money. When those unfortunate students graduate, they are almost invariably disappointed at not being able to find a job that meets their expectations. That's why I think law school, outside of the elite ones, is a huge risk.
 
2012-11-24 11:09:26 PM  

luthia: AKA a job only for privileged children who have parents wealthy enough to support them.


It's farked up when the aristocrats shove this shiat in our faces.
 
2012-11-24 11:13:15 PM  

cptjeff: al's hat: Super Chronic: al's hat: Super Chronic: On the other hand, the judge isn't paying salaries from his own pocket. He has a taxpayer-funded budget and I'm sure he'd be happy to have a paid clerk if the budget allowed it. It's either this or not have a clerk at all, most likely. So what would people rather have: an opportunity available only to a few, or no opportunity at all?

I'm sure the judge would be more than happy to have an additional unpaid intern to go along with the two paid ones...as the article stated.

Fine, but it doesn't change my premise by one iota. He had the budget for two, and I'm sure he would have happily paid a third if he had the budget for it. If he paid 100 clerks and offered this to a potential #101 it would still be the same. Whatever it is: compare {state of the world without this opportunity} with {state of the world with this opportunity}, and I cannot see any justification for preferring the former.

Judges at this level have a staff to help them do their jobs. While clerks actually perform some real work, the position they fill isn't necessary. I liken it to the summer associates we had at the law firm I worked for. When the summer associates left at the end of the summer they weren't replaced. Their work went back to the regular associates and legal assistants whose load they somewhat lightened while they were there. Judicial clerk internships are a great opportunity for a law student but they provide very little real substance for a judge other than perhaps repaying or currying favor from someone with power and influence whose bright little crotchfruit wants to be a lawyer in the big leagues. There's no real social benefit or altruistic value in judge clerkships. Your premise is based on an optimistic view and assumptions and kudos to you for that but we as citizens don't benefit either way. The state of the world doesn't come into play, sorry to burst your bubble. :(

Uh, what? That's not true at all. Clerks ...


So...what function do these job titles fulfill? Staff Law Clerk, Staff Attorney, Sentencing Guidelines Specialist, Pro Se Law Clerk, Judicial Assistant, Clerk of Court, Chief Deputy Clerk, and Assistant General Counsel. http://www.uscourts.gov/Careers/

Clerks do real work but judges in no way depend on only a couple of clerks and an administrative assistant to help them. They have an entire bureaucracy as their staff. Many of those are not direct reports to the judge but that doesn't mean they aren't part of his staff. Do you think a judge doesn't have access to a staff attorney or counsel when a clerk's research or information is suspect? Judges don't operate in a little tiny bubble.
 
2012-11-24 11:20:26 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Actually, according to TFA, the "moral commitment" thing was part of the firing rules - the applicant makes a "moral commitment" to stay for a year no matter what, but the judge can fire the person at will at any time.

Farking bastard. And desperate lawyers who would farking KILL for a federal clerking gig will do it. Only the ones who can afford to be without a salary, though. So, rich kids with connections.


or for people who saved enough money to last themselves through the internship, via hardwork.
 
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  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

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