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(CNN)   "Just say no to playing Indian" says columnist whose name translates to "She who has stick firmly jammed up rectum"   (inamerica.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 266
    More: Interesting, National Institute of Justice, Alaska Natives, Black in America, Soledad O'Brien, No Doubt, CNN, Violence Against Women Act, Merriam-Webster  
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13828 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Nov 2012 at 10:49 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-24 11:03:29 AM  
I wonder how many in here state that those who are offended need to "lighten up" while at the same time get their panties in a twist when anyone attacks Islam.

I'll wait.
 
2012-11-24 11:04:56 AM  
Just make the Battle of Little Big Horn a holiday already. Some people with piss and moan about anything


/Going to pack thepeace pipe and watch Little Big Man later.
 
2012-11-24 11:05:17 AM  

randomjsa: As another Native American Heritage Month comes to an end, I have to stop and ask, did anybody other than Native folks even know it was taking place?

Yes, but like every other month dedicated to certain issues...

We didn't care.

It's not unlike certain holidays. Most people consider Halloween to be a silly holiday where we give candy to children. Some people place some highly personal significance on it... Do you think they care what you think?


My personal favorite story about Victim History Months is at one organization I worked at, Black employees complained in a conference that "Of course Whitey would make Black History Month in February, the shortest month of the year, to oppress us!"

/Increasingly with Non-Asian Minorities, I can't tell if they really mean what they are saying or are just using the threat of smeering people as racist - which has very real professional and legal consequences - to get more goodies
 
2012-11-24 11:06:33 AM  
How about a nice game of Nazis and Jews?
 
2012-11-24 11:08:04 AM  
i1125.photobucket.com
I'm OK with this.

/Get over yourself, Ms. Sandy Vagina.
 
2012-11-24 11:08:50 AM  

Onkel Buck: Just make the Battle of Little Big Horn a holiday already. Some people with piss and moan about anything


/Going to pack thepeace pipe and watch Little Big Man later.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-24 11:08:58 AM  
I've never met a woman named Janet who wasn't a total biatch.
 
2012-11-24 11:10:10 AM  

dugitman: FTFA: According to congressional findings of the  2010 Tribal Law & Order Act    , 34% of American Indian and Alaska Native women will be raped; 39% will be subjected to domestic violence.


What....

in a row?
 
2012-11-24 11:10:12 AM  
www.chinaenvironmentallaw.com

nobody posted this yet? yes I know I know not a real Native American.
Personally, I didn't know November was Native American History month and I am Choctaw/Cherokee. I didn't know and now that I do know, it doesn't make me get all upset about these advertising and media gaffes that people have pulled compared to if I had known. Sure some people will find it offensive there is always someone who will. There is the whole, "it should be every day not just a month" crowd. I gladly will respect someone else's heritage and culture and I don't need a month out of the year set aside for it.

/can you imagine the butthurt that would flow though if during the other "history" months if common stereotypes were played out by businesses and in the media? Those places would be shut down even after an apology.
 
2012-11-24 11:10:34 AM  
As a white American, I don't take Native American's "rights" seriously, because on average, 9 out of 10 NA's I've dealt with (in Arizona) are less inclined to do something about it than I am. For this French writer chick, It's like trying to play the black card but you have no Jesse Jacksons or Al Sharptons up your sleeve.
 
2012-11-24 11:10:37 AM  
Of course nobody realized it was native american history month. Movember has a lot more hype attached to it.
 
2012-11-24 11:10:48 AM  

RexTalionis: Dancin_In_Anson: Some people think it's fine to celebrate their heritage. And believe it or not they have a lot of fun with it. Y'all should get yourself some fun.

Their heritage. Not somebody else's.


i.imgur.com

Ted Sewitski respectfully disagrees.
 
2012-11-24 11:11:49 AM  
When will all these minorities stop biatching that we didn't completely eradicate them? It's by the majorities grace alone that they're even able to take moral high groin on a discrimination issue anyway.
 
2012-11-24 11:17:21 AM  

doglover: RexTalionis: How can you be so obtuse that you can't recognize the difference between celebrating a culture respectfully and exploiting and co-opting one for financial and social benefits?

Octoberfest is nothing if not exploitation for financial gain. Do you have any idea how much German beers run for the liter!?


Total Farkers get a discount?!
 
2012-11-24 11:17:57 AM  
If you really want to be depressed watch this. Link

/lives in SD
//Works with quite a few Native kids
///They got bigger things to worry about than if people "exploit" their culture
 
2012-11-24 11:18:09 AM  
On one hand, I'd love to have a serious talk about cultural appropriation.

On the other hand, I'm willing to wager that most of the people on Fark are more content practicing their subconscious racism. It fits right in with the subconscious misogyny, homophobia, and overt cultural hegemony that is so prevalent here.

Oh, and DIA has been pretty racist for pretty much all of the last ten years I've been reading this site, so I'm not sure why people are surprised about what he's saying now.
 
2012-11-24 11:19:06 AM  

S.A.S.Q.U.A.T.C.H.: As a white American, I don't take Native American's "rights" seriously, because on average, 9 out of 10 NA's I've dealt with (in Arizona) are less inclined to do something about it than I am. For this French writer chick, It's like trying to play the black card but you have no Jesse Jacksons or Al Sharptons up your sleeve.


Actually, according to the tagline, she's a member of the Pueblo nation. Not all Native Americans are named Running Bear or Little Wolf. I'm Jewish but don't have a Jewish last name.
 
2012-11-24 11:20:32 AM  

DubtodaIll: When will all these minorities stop biatching that we didn't completely eradicate them? It's by the majorities grace alone that they're even able to take moral high groin on a discrimination issue anyway.


But there's only a few thousand of them left! Of course, that's a low-ball estimate.
 
2012-11-24 11:20:55 AM  

Spoon over Marin: Dancin_In_Anson:

Funny you say that. McMurray University was threatened with sanctions by the NCAA unless they dropped their Indian mascot even though the history of the school is steeped in American Indian history. Must have been over my butthurt or something right?

No it isn't it's a Methodist Univ. founded in 1923.


And we sent the Five Tribes there before that. Checkmate Lib.
 
2012-11-24 11:21:42 AM  

DubtodaIll: When will all these minorities stop biatching that we didn't completely eradicate them? It's by the majorities grace alone that they're even able to take moral high groin on a discrimination issue anyway.


"Hey! We're not currently committing genocide on your people! You should be grateful we even let you live!"
 
2012-11-24 11:22:31 AM  
Here's what I don't get. Stone Brewery is such a one trick pony that it doesn't make sense that they are as popular as they are. I guess putting a gargoyle on your bottle makes you edgy and cool, or having a CEO that's all vegan and anti-GMO gives you cred, but their beers are just more hop-crazy swill.

I only bring this up because some drunk indian idiot was sitting on a curb imbibing Stone IPA. I got some Four Loco on my way out of the store, because he just seemed to be wasting his time drinking unfortified drinks.
 
2012-11-24 11:22:50 AM  
If they want a celebration of their culture, I'm totally fine with it. If they want it to be popular, well, it needs to involve booze. Look at the major nationality/religion holidays..St. Pat's, Octoberfest, Cinco de Mayo, Mardi Gras, 4th of July....all of them fun. Hell, you could probably add Christmas to that list. Now, look at the ones that aren't fun/popular (I'm looking at you, Kwanzaa). Whats missing?
 
2012-11-24 11:23:20 AM  

Nogale: Actually, according to the tagline, she's a member of the Pueblo nation.


True story, you can order anything from Pueblo, Colorado.
 
2012-11-24 11:23:33 AM  

Spoon over Marin: I was taught that the NA cultures were matrilineal. Maybe the violence is a result of placing a group of people in a human petting zoo?


I think it was more like a few specific NA cultures didn't discriminate against women in politics, and had some women leaders - the Iroquois come to mind. If there were any matriarchal Native societies (not really sure), they definitely weren't the majority.

Nope, I think this is more of the result of the White Man giving them booze which they had never seen the stuff before, and went crazy with it, and it tore apart much of their society, which made them easier to conquer, and easier on the conscience to do so. That's how it went, anyway.
 
2012-11-24 11:25:08 AM  
Oy.

Let me lay out my opinions here, in case anyone cares:

1) Cultures represent our tribal history. Everyone belongs to a tribe. Some are family-esque or bigger, thus giving them an air of permanence, and some are ephemeral (like the fandom of a sports team, for example).

2) Often, cross-cultural interaction carries with it intense baggage related to past and/or current oppression - from mockery up through genocide - of one culture by another.

3) OPINION: Relics of such hostile, domineering interactions should be avoided, or, better yet, addressed in an appropriate forum with due resolution and reverence for the subject matter, where possible.

4) That being said, if we did not periodically "dabble" in each other's cultures, it would be as if to ignore that we're on this planet together. Cross-cultural interaction, complete with "borrowing," happens all the time, literally everywhere. What makes us human is culture, and what makes us vibrant is that those cultures are many and they interact.

5) Ergo: dress-up games are complicated affairs, which depend on context. OPINION: Avoid dressing up like a person from another culture unless invited to do so by that culture's members, because it's waaaaay too easy to screw up (and when you do screw up, those who get offended may very well have a point).

6) OPINION: That being said, see #4. We can't get away from each other, and encouraging everyone to silo their culture isn't just unrealistic, it's actually dangerous. We shouldn't avoid each other - there's too much of that going on already.
 
2012-11-24 11:25:08 AM  

iron_city_ap: If they want a celebration of their culture, I'm totally fine with it. If they want it to be popular, well, it needs to involve booze. Look at the major nationality/religion holidays..St. Pat's, Octoberfest, Cinco de Mayo, Mardi Gras, 4th of July....all of them fun. Hell, you could probably add Christmas to that list. Now, look at the ones that aren't fun/popular (I'm looking at you, Kwanzaa). Whats missing?


You can't invent a holiday?
 
2012-11-24 11:25:29 AM  

Aurric: On one hand, I'd love to have a serious talk about cultural appropriation.

On the other hand, I'm willing to wager that most of the people on Fark are more content practicing their subconscious racism. It fits right in with the subconscious misogyny, homophobia, and overt cultural hegemony that is so prevalent here.

Oh, and DIA has been pretty racist for pretty much all of the last ten years I've been reading this site, so I'm not sure why people are surprised about what he's saying now.


Wow, I never met a super-human who had all their emotions and feelings in such perfect harmony. You should be revered a god on FARK. The rest of as just use common sense but you are something special.
 
2012-11-24 11:26:35 AM  

Dafatone: iron_city_ap: If they want a celebration of their culture, I'm totally fine with it. If they want it to be popular, well, it needs to involve booze. Look at the major nationality/religion holidays..St. Pat's, Octoberfest, Cinco de Mayo, Mardi Gras, 4th of July....all of them fun. Hell, you could probably add Christmas to that list. Now, look at the ones that aren't fun/popular (I'm looking at you, Kwanzaa). Whats missing?

You can't invent a holiday?


Sure you can. If you want people to notice it, you gotta make getting drunk a big part of it.
 
2012-11-24 11:27:30 AM  

Dafatone: iron_city_ap: If they want a celebration of their culture, I'm totally fine with it. If they want it to be popular, well, it needs to involve booze. Look at the major nationality/religion holidays..St. Pat's, Octoberfest, Cinco de Mayo, Mardi Gras, 4th of July....all of them fun. Hell, you could probably add Christmas to that list. Now, look at the ones that aren't fun/popular (I'm looking at you, Kwanzaa). Whats missing?

You can't invent a holiday?


Seriously. MLK Day disapproves of iron_city_ap's shenanigans.
 
2012-11-24 11:28:50 AM  

Aurric: On one hand, I'd love to have a serious talk about cultural appropriation.

On the other hand, I'm willing to wager that most of the people on Fark are more content practicing their subconscious racism. It fits right in with the subconscious misogyny, homophobia, and overt cultural hegemony that is so prevalent here.

Oh, and DIA has been pretty racist for pretty much all of the last ten years I've been reading this site, so I'm not sure why people are surprised about what he's saying now.


Fark has cultural hegemony?
 
2012-11-24 11:29:07 AM  
It sort of weakens her argument, having a picture of a Victoria's Secret model wearing a headdress posted over the article.
 
2012-11-24 11:30:12 AM  

Spoon over Marin: dugitman: FTFA: According to congressional findings of the  2010 Tribal Law & Order Act    , 34% of American Indian and Alaska Native women will be raped; 39% will be subjected to domestic violence. That is more than twice the national average. In addition, the 2008 study by the  National Institute of Justice suggests that on some reservations, Native women are murdered at more than 10 times the rate of their non-native counterparts.
In the past year, Native advocacy leaders have made a push to reauthorize the Violence Against Women Act in Congress. The law would empower tribes for the first time to seek justice against non-Indian offenders.
 
I know next to nothing about this subject, but it seems counterintuitive that violence against NA women is being overwhelmingly committed by non-NA men. Is her point that: fetishizing the NA image in entertainment has spilled over onto the reservations and created a misogynistic environment in the NA community? Because I thought that environment has been there all along.

I was taught that the NA cultures were matrilineal. Maybe the violence is a result of placing a group of people in a human petting zoo?


You call it a human petting zoo. I call it a free range ghetto.

RexTalionis: Dancin_In_Anson: Some people think it's fine to celebrate their heritage. And believe it or not they have a lot of fun with it. Y'all should get yourself some fun.

Their heritage. Not somebody else's.


So no toga parties anymore? Boo.
 
2012-11-24 11:30:13 AM  

HeathenHealer: If you really want to be depressed watch this. Link

/lives in SD
//Works with quite a few Native kids
///They got bigger things to worry about than if people "exploit" their culture


stories like that and like the one about the beer and liquor sales on the border with the SD reservation are ones that should be out there letting people know exactly what is happening to Native Americans. But instead the media wants you to get outraged over a model wearing a headdress or some sport team that has a Native American mascot. The point is if it was another ethnicity and something like the link HeathenHealer posted or the alcohol sales were to happen, we would be getting constantly bombarded with outraged "journalists" (i use that term loosely) on why these atrocities should stop, followed up with unnecessary legislation making it a federal crime to do so.
 
2012-11-24 11:31:25 AM  
www.tvworthwatching.com
Where the Hekowi?
 
2012-11-24 11:31:59 AM  

Ryan2065: I think one of the big differences is Oktoberfest celebrates the "fun" parts of German culture (drinking, food, and parties). Most of the Native American things I've seen make fun of their religion, paint the Native Americans as uneducated drunks, and celebrate their genocide.


Really? I've never seen that... I've seen people dress up in feathered headdresses and dance around making nonsensical chants, but that seems about on par with dressing up in leiderhosen and dancing a silly jig as far as offensiveness... It's just drunken people having silly fun... When has anyone ever "celebrate[d] their genocide"? Seriously??

/Part Cherokee...
 
2012-11-24 11:33:50 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Dafatone: iron_city_ap: If they want a celebration of their culture, I'm totally fine with it. If they want it to be popular, well, it needs to involve booze. Look at the major nationality/religion holidays..St. Pat's, Octoberfest, Cinco de Mayo, Mardi Gras, 4th of July....all of them fun. Hell, you could probably add Christmas to that list. Now, look at the ones that aren't fun/popular (I'm looking at you, Kwanzaa). Whats missing?

You can't invent a holiday?

Seriously. MLK Day disapproves of iron_city_ap's shenanigans.


Good point. I forgot all those big MLK day parties and parades and firework displays I've been to over the years. Don't get me wrong though, centering a celebration around getting tanked misses the mark about what you are actually celebrating. It just makes it more widly popular.
 
2012-11-24 11:35:12 AM  
As an American Indian, I read the first sentence and said three things:

1 - Shut the fark up, you dumb biatch. You don't speak for me or anyone else in my family.

2 - If you were born in this country, you are a "native" American, so knock off that PC bullshiat - it's offensive to me. I'm both a "native" American and an American Indian of the Creek and Lakota tribes.

3 - My grandmother would slap your arrogant, disrespectful face if she were still alive and tell you to look to your own backyard before blaming someone else for the condition of theirs--and she called herself a "squaw" unapologetically and was not only not insulted by the term, but damned proud of her heritage, which she could trace beyond the Trail of Tears and the Dawes and Oakes Rolls. You should be too. Instead, you're so ashamed of who and what you are, you blame the children of immigrants (which I am also - my father was of Scottish descent) for your own low self-worth.


/farking whiny brats looking to take racist offense in everything. This country has moved beyond the 1700's and 1800s, maybe they should too.
 
2012-11-24 11:35:46 AM  
Vae Victis.
 
2012-11-24 11:35:51 AM  

Barfmaker: Does there come a point where we can borrow from other cultures simply for "the look"? At what point does it become insulting?


IKEA says go on, exploit Swedish culture all you like, and pick up some meatballs on the way oiy.
 
2012-11-24 11:36:43 AM  

RexTalionis: Barfmaker: Does there come a point where we can borrow from other cultures simply for "the look"? At what point does it become insulting?

This is fine:
[www.shoes.com image 350x350]

This is stupid:
[24.media.tumblr.com image 500x346]
[blogs.ubc.ca image 640x960]

[biatchmagazine.org image 500x386]


Only really the last one is stupid; those are some badly drawn ugly assed white chicks.
 
2012-11-24 11:37:11 AM  
I like how we've reached a place in post-racial America where it's OK to keep perpetuating stereotypes because we're all equal and it's all just in fun and everything's peachy and OK.
 
2012-11-24 11:37:44 AM  

Make More Hinjews: 5) Ergo: dress-up games are complicated affairs, which depend on context. OPINION: Avoid dressing up like a person from another culture unless invited to do so by that culture's members, because it's waaaaay too easy to screw up (and when you do screw up, those who get offended may very well have a point).


If I was native American I'd be more offended by the ghetto-like state of the reservations than by some idiot that wanted to play dress-up. But no one's going to write an article about that, because that's boring and depressing and apparently not an issue that anyone wants to deal with.

These people need jobs, quality schools and rehab centers, not some patronising token measure of respect.
 
2012-11-24 11:37:59 AM  

Aigoo: As an American Indian, I read the first sentence and said three things:

1 - Shut the fark up, you dumb biatch. You don't speak for me or anyone else in my family.

2 - If you were born in this country, you are a "native" American, so knock off that PC bullshiat - it's offensive to me. I'm both a "native" American and an American Indian of the Creek and Lakota tribes.

3 - My grandmother would slap your arrogant, disrespectful face if she were still alive and tell you to look to your own backyard before blaming someone else for the condition of theirs--and she called herself a "squaw" unapologetically and was not only not insulted by the term, but damned proud of her heritage, which she could trace beyond the Trail of Tears and the Dawes and Oakes Rolls. You should be too. Instead, you're so ashamed of who and what you are, you blame the children of immigrants (which I am also - my father was of Scottish descent) for your own low self-worth.


/farking whiny brats looking to take racist offense in everything. This country has moved beyond the 1700's and 1800s, maybe they should too.


Me, shiny beads, fire water, give you. Land me, you give? Great respect your ancestors. Long live peace my family your family.
 
2012-11-24 11:40:38 AM  

RobSeace: Ryan2065: I think one of the big differences is Oktoberfest celebrates the "fun" parts of German culture (drinking, food, and parties). Most of the Native American things I've seen make fun of their religion, paint the Native Americans as uneducated drunks, and celebrate their genocide.

Really? I've never seen that... I've seen people dress up in feathered headdresses and dance around making nonsensical chants, but that seems about on par with dressing up in leiderhosen and dancing a silly jig as far as offensiveness... It's just drunken people having silly fun... When has anyone ever "celebrate[d] their genocide"? Seriously??

/Part Cherokee...


Indian City

only a few miles from where we live now. I wouldn't call it a celebration of genocide insomuch as you can go and actually learn something about Native American history. True the back story on it is sad, but it gives the uneducated a glimpse into the culture.
 
2012-11-24 11:41:59 AM  

mat catastrophe: I like how we've reached a place in post-racial America where it's OK to keep perpetuating stereotypes because we're all equal and it's all just in fun and everything's peachy and OK.


What is this place you speak of? It's always been strange to me for people to deny their own nature. I you've ever travelled anywhere outside the USA you quickly realize that America is the least racist place on earth. It's in your instincts to distrust those outside your own group. While I'm all legal equality, cultural and emotional equality are unattainable.
 
2012-11-24 11:42:01 AM  
Can we just change the name of Columbus Day to "Tough shiat, You Lost" Day?
 
2012-11-24 11:42:31 AM  
graphics8.nytimes.com

Ashton should have just said no.
 
2012-11-24 11:43:12 AM  
i can't believe people still think this kind of thing isn't offensive and disrespectful. it really needs to end, but it won't stop unless people do something about it. we would need a lot of people on board to finally stop the disrespect. a large, well trained group of people who can recognize offensive use of native imagery. yeah, like an army. then this "army" could round up all offensive mascots, headdresses, dream catchers, etc and stop ignorant people from dishonoring them. maybe put Native American symbols in their own special place, some place just for them where they could stay apart from the rest of American culture. anybody with me?
 
2012-11-24 11:43:31 AM  

Make More Hinjews: Oy.

Let me lay out my opinions here, in case anyone cares:

1) Cultures represent our tribal history. Everyone belongs to a tribe. Some are family-esque or bigger, thus giving them an air of permanence, and some are ephemeral (like the fandom of a sports team, for example).

2) Often, cross-cultural interaction carries with it intense baggage related to past and/or current oppression - from mockery up through genocide - of one culture by another.

3) OPINION: Relics of such hostile, domineering interactions should be avoided, or, better yet, addressed in an appropriate forum with due resolution and reverence for the subject matter, where possible.

4) That being said, if we did not periodically "dabble" in each other's cultures, it would be as if to ignore that we're on this planet together. Cross-cultural interaction, complete with "borrowing," happens all the time, literally everywhere. What makes us human is culture, and what makes us vibrant is that those cultures are many and they interact.

5) Ergo: dress-up games are complicated affairs, which depend on context. OPINION: Avoid dressing up like a person from another culture unless invited to do so by that culture's members, because it's waaaaay too easy to screw up (and when you do screw up, those who get offended may very well have a point).

6) OPINION: That being said, see #4. We can't get away from each other, and encouraging everyone to silo their culture isn't just unrealistic, it's actually dangerous. We shouldn't avoid each other - there's too much of that going on already.


I'm not in the least bit offended by Stefani's video or Victoria's Secret's headdress. Stefani is, in fact, part of a multi-racial/cultural band, and I seriously doubt the intent was racist. But that keyhole dress thing was hideous. She should've apologized for whatever the hell that thing was supposed to be instead of the rest of the video. Ugh.

As for the Victoria's Secret show... first, VS models are among the most tasteful in the business for underwear models. The fact that they are required to maintain a healthy body weight rather than be anorexic is a point in their favor. I thought the headdress was tasteful and attractive and just as many American Indians shop at Victoria's Secret as non American Indians, so I fail to see the problem except for a bunch of jackasses getting their knickers in a twist over "zomg! A headdress associated with American Indians! It must be racist!" farkwits. If it had been an American Indian model, would there still have been such an outcry, I wonder?
 
2012-11-24 11:43:37 AM  
I learned a new term today: Non-asian minorities.
 
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