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(Adelaide Now)   Since society didn't collapse after the re-election of Obama, doomsday preppers now have the end of the Mayan Calendar to look forward to   (adelaidenow.com.au) divider line 63
    More: Silly, mayans, obama, underground bunker, long count  
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4960 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Nov 2012 at 9:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-11-24 09:48:32 AM
9 votes:
I'm a prepper. No, I don't believe in the Myan BS. I also didn't think there would be massive riots from the election. To me Prepping is about "living a better life when times get tough, and even if they don't" to steal a phrase from a pretty wise man. It's about learning to live without having to rely on someone else to survive. It's about being able to help others if they're in a worse position. I'm the guy who's got a 5gal can of gas, jumper cables, battery charger when someone is broken down. I'm the guy with flashlights, batteries, candles and a generator when there's a power outage. And I am more than happy to share. I'm the guy who's learning to grow my own veggies, which are not only healthier, but cost less, make a fun hobby, and make me less reliant on a just-in-time grocery store supply chain. Yes, I've converted some on my money into gold, silver, and copper. But in addition to it being a good hedge against the dollar losing even more value, it's also a good way to save money, as it takes some real effort to reconvert that gold back into dollars for an impulse buy. When other people's phones die, I'm the guy with the USB/AAbattery/solar charger that's more than willing to loan it out so they can charge their phones. I've always got a few 5 Hour Energies for buddies when I'm doing Army stuff. I'm never too far away from a first aid/CPR kit and I know how to use them. I'm a gun owner and I know how to use those responsibly too.

Those are just a few of my preps. Most of the ideas are not my own. Many are just sensible things I've learned from others. Others are things I've always just thought were smart, or they arose from a past situation that I was not able to deal with. Prepping is NOT about hating the government, Obama/Romney, or blaming one political party or the other. Prepping is just what the name says: being prepared. For things big and small. From a dead cell phone batter or a flat tire to a power outage,hurricane, or yes, even a period of time without any government services and/or social breakdown. And Prepping it about helping and teaching others. It's an "I will learn to do this myself, but I will always be willing to help you" attitude. Hopefully so that you gain the same attitude and I don't need to help you anymore. Because you can now do it yourself too and can help others as well on your own.

Prepping is just a response to an ever growing attitude of "someone else should do this for me". Someone else should protect me, Someone else should feed me. Someone else should provide me shelter. Prepping is about learning to live a more self-fulfilling life. A more resilient life. So when challenges arise, and they always do, you're not left by the side of the road waiting for AAA, or left in a flooded apartment waiting for FEMA. Prepping is about understanding that your life is yours to live. And only you are truly responsible for it.
2012-11-24 10:43:29 AM
6 votes:

diaphoresis:
Riiight.... I'm the problem... Government always knows best and is never the problem... See you in 40 yrs when you grow up.


did you know that Adam Smith (yes, THAT Adam Smith, the founder of capitalism) was a big proponent of worker's rights? he saw labor as an investment - that if you shared the wealth with your workers and made sure they understood WHY you were helping them out then you'd have a loyal work force that knew the business and was equally invested in it's success. He considered screwing over labor to be a stupid idea, since it only hurt you in the long run.

Interesting, isn't it?
2012-11-24 10:27:17 AM
5 votes:

diaphoresis: MassAsster: diaphoresis: sethstorm: Businesses are sure trying given their rush to get under the PPACA limits of 50 employees or 30 hours a week - whether by terminations or conversions to precarious employment(read: contractors & temporary workers).

I fired all my employees in July, then hired them back as contractors.

cause..... ur a dick?

Wrong gender, but yeah, sure.. why not.


The way I see it, unless your employing the just out of collage and begging for a job, your part of the problem..

Healthcare used to be a luxury in this country, something you could do without but was a privilege to have.. Today, with healthcare prices and bull shyt state of the economy, health insurance has become a requirement.

So yeah, It's a real dick move to avoid at all costs giving necessities to your employees.. Rather then look into the very basics of health insurance coverage, the bare essentials you can get away with and satisfy the requirements, you choose to say Fu*k you to your workers and truck on with your shiat management style-

So, single finger salute to you mam, and congratulations on being part of the problem.
2012-11-24 09:52:22 AM
5 votes:

wmanning833: Society hasn't collapsed because the major tax laws haven't gone into effect yet. In 2014 the Obamacare legislation begins becoming law.


Wrong. Most major provisions have already been phased in.

It's easy to beat your chest now.

Because the world hasn't ended yet? Because the economy hasn't collapsed as you've predicted? We're not beating our chests; we're simply looking at you wondering why you're still cowering in the corner with your AR-15, frothing on about Karl Rove and his incredible predictive skills.

Come back and let's hear about how great it is after a full 1/6 of the economy becomes government managed.

Because it's been 1/5.9th managed under Republican control for the last twenty years, and this is the tipping point? In the 1990s, a period in which Republicans controlled the House for six years, the share of health spending controlled by the government rose by 10 percent. The trend continued from 2000 to 2008, when Republicans controlled the White House and largely controlled Congress. In pretty much every year of the Bush administration, the government "took over" a greater chunk of the health care sector. And many of the Republicans who are complaining about reform proposals today didn't utter a peep. In fact, they helped the process along by voting for the Medicare prescription drug benefit in 2003.

In fact, you folks with student loans now all owned by Sally Mae, how's that working out for you? I hired three Comp Sci graduates you have $100K in student loans. They own more than I owe on my house.

My wife has a Sallie Mae loan, and it's working out just fine, thanks for asking. And it looks like you hire folks with very poor financial planning skills; I hope they won't have any budgetary responsibilities in your alleged business.

I'm a libertarian. I am against most of the same things you are. But damn I can't stand propaganda derp.
2012-11-24 09:43:22 AM
5 votes:

wmanning833: Society hasn't collapsed because the major tax laws haven't gone into effect yet. In 2014 the Obamacare legislation begins becoming law. It's easy to beat your chest now. Come back and let's hear about how great it is after a full 1/6 of the economy becomes government managed. In fact, you folks with student loans now all owned by Sally Mae, how's that working out for you? I hired three Comp Sci graduates you have $100K in student loans. They own more than I owe on my house.


In 2015 when things are fine, you'll be telling us it will take years before the full effects are felt and just wait until 2018... or some bullshiat like that.
2012-11-24 09:21:01 AM
5 votes:
I have friends like this.

I offered to send them to Vegas on an all expenses paid, end of the world blowout party if they'd just sign over all of their worldly possessions to me (houses, cars, etc,) effective January 1, 2013.

None of them went for it.
2012-11-24 09:26:53 AM
4 votes:

NutWrench: Ok, that's it. I'm going to start selling ammo.

Three thousand or more pieces of literature claim that the Maya predicted the Earth will be destroyed on this date.

Comics do not count as "literature."


Why would anyone need to buy ammo? Is it the end of the world? Or sorta kinda the end of the world?
2012-11-24 09:23:45 AM
4 votes:

NutWrench: Ok, that's it. I'm going to start selling ammo.

Three thousand or more pieces of literature claim that the Maya predicted the Earth will be destroyed on this date.

Comics do not count as "literature."


Tell that to Jack Chick.
2012-11-24 11:39:44 AM
3 votes:

Weaver95: diaphoresis:
Riiight.... I'm the problem... Government always knows best and is never the problem... See you in 40 yrs when you grow up.

did you know that Adam Smith (yes, THAT Adam Smith, the founder of capitalism) was a big proponent of worker's rights? he saw labor as an investment - that if you shared the wealth with your workers and made sure they understood WHY you were helping them out then you'd have a loyal work force that knew the business and was equally invested in it's success. He considered screwing over labor to be a stupid idea, since it only hurt you in the long run.

Interesting, isn't it?


Until you actually understand anything about economics you shouldn't be quoting tiny little snippets that you think support your point of view.

What Smith understood was that the intelligent employer (what he referred to as enlightened self-interest) would take very good care of his employees because they made him money. Think of it like a work horse - the better you treat him the better able he'll be to pull the plow. Starve him and you'll end up trying to pull the plow yourself.

The problem with all of the employment expenses that are imposed by the government (and mandated health insurance is one of those) is that the employee must be able to generate enough revenue for the employer to be able to cover those costs. The employer cannot lose money continuously - he will be forced into bankruptcy. So an employee who is paid $15/hr can't get by producing $15/hour of revenue for his employer; between matching FICA, FUTA, SUTA, worker's comp, liability, paid vacations, sick days, and health insurance he must generate at least triple his wages. If you understand product costing, margins, overhead and the like; and then take into account the fact that large employers need to employ several additional people (or pay a substantial amount to a third-party provider) to track all of the documentation, file all the necessary reports, and do all of the other busy work that accompanies employing people, you understand the employees need to generate a lot more money than they can possibly be paid in order to make the business viable.

If an employer is going to provide a full-coverage health insurance plan that will cover medical plus dental, optical, psychiatric, etc (and pay for contraception) that is the model under Obamacare, insurance policies will exceed $1000/month per employee. A normal employee is considered to work 2000 hours/year A full-coverage policy would thus cost at least $6/hour. Another little--known provision of Obamacare is that employees cannot be required to pay more than 9.5% of their household income toward their insurance. Median household income is just over $45,000; 9.5% of that is roughly $4300, leaving the employer to pay close to $8000/year or an additional $4/hour per employee. And that's just the insurance!!

If the employer can charge customers enough to cover those expenses and still be competitive with folks overseas who have none of those expenses (to say nothing of regulations that drive up costs while providing no benefit), he would happily pay it to employees. When he cannot be competitive, the employer will have to stop paying even the wages for his employees, let alone the health insurance.

It's not the employer who is screwing the employees. It's your friendly government. The government-imposed cost of employment is what makes us non-competitive. In terms of productivity, the U.S. worker is 2nd to none. In terms of piling expenses on employers that sap the productivity of the worker, the U.S. government is 2nd to none.
2012-11-24 11:07:00 AM
3 votes:

diaphoresis: Weaver95: diaphoresis:
To paint all businesses with the same brush is highly ignorant, irresponsible, and a perfect example of the failure of public education.

is that what I did? hmm. I mentioned that Adam Smith thought it was a bad idea to screw over your workers. nothing more or less than that. your response was...intriguing.

No.. that ISN'T what YOU did... thank you.


here's what I said:

did you know that Adam Smith (yes, THAT Adam Smith, the founder of capitalism) was a big proponent of worker's rights? he saw labor as an investment - that if you shared the wealth with your workers and made sure they understood WHY you were helping them out then you'd have a loyal work force that knew the business and was equally invested in it's success. He considered screwing over labor to be a stupid idea, since it only hurt you in the long run.

Interesting, isn't it?


your response included a disparaging comment about public education and a lot of justification for being a greedy asshat. I didn't make accusations, I didn't make comments about your philosophy...I merely reminded you of an uncomfortable truth: that the father of capitalism believed that workers were/are an investment, and just as important as the equipment they operate. not for reasons of sentiment, but because they are part of his economic equations for success.

interesting that you changed the subject so quickly....
2012-11-24 10:37:43 AM
3 votes:

diaphoresis: MassAsster: diaphoresis: MassAsster: diaphoresis: sethstorm: Businesses are sure trying given their rush to get under the PPACA limits of 50 employees or 30 hours a week - whether by terminations or conversions to precarious employment(read: contractors & temporary workers).

I fired all my employees in July, then hired them back as contractors.

cause..... ur a dick?

Wrong gender, but yeah, sure.. why not.

The way I see it, unless your employing the just out of collage and begging for a job, your part of the problem..

Healthcare used to be a luxury in this country, something you could do without but was a privilege to have.. Today, with healthcare prices and bull shyt state of the economy, health insurance has become a requirement.

So yeah, It's a real dick move to avoid at all costs giving necessities to your employees.. Rather then look into the very basics of health insurance coverage, the bare essentials you can get away with and satisfy the requirements, you choose to say Fu*k you to your workers and truck on with your shiat management style-

So, single finger salute to you mam, and congratulations on being part of the problem.

Riiight.... I'm the problem... Government always knows best and is never the problem... See you in 40 yrs when you grow up.


lol - right......


This is why you suck at what you do, you fail to see things beyond your own nose..

/i'm done making my point with you
//GDIF
2012-11-24 10:02:40 AM
3 votes:
why should i believe the Mayan about the apocalypse? they didn't see the collapse of their own civilization coming.
2012-11-24 10:00:55 AM
3 votes:
So if some cosmic event happens, and the Earth is torn apart by some random elements. Say, comets, magnetic forces, whatever, some people think a rifle and reinforced door are going to help?

Yeah, that's a sellers market.

Besides, which is honestly scarier for a prepper: vindication? Or the knowledge that when nothing happens they've squandered their time and money. For April, or retirement, or whatever, their kid needs braces.

World events tend not to tip in ego assuring ways.

The irony, to me, is all of this might as well be looking for the fountain of youth, or potions, or little idols; a desperate and tenacious clinging to nonsense despite the absolute and certain knowledge that death is unavoidable, and selfishness in the light of that is particularly disgusting.

Go build houses for the impoverished instead of bunkers for yourself, maybe then you'll be less of a cause of societies unraveling.

Just my opinion
2012-11-24 09:59:49 AM
3 votes:

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Everyone always thinks their case of Poland Spring and five-gallon drum of Apocalypse Chow is going to make them Lord Humongous.


Exactly. If society as we know it collapses, it won't be the doomsday tough guys that survive it. It will be the groups of people that come together to cooperate and renew the process of division of labor, and pool their knowledge and resources to restore what they can. How welcome do you think these DTGs are going to be after a year of shooting anyone that comes onto their property, and refusing to share anything?

It's one thing to set yourself up with food, medicine, water, etc., for a temporary emergency. It's another to think your bunker and .308 is going to be your salvation from the Yellowstone supervolcano, or a K-T boundary-like impact.
2012-11-24 09:41:01 AM
3 votes:

wmanning833: Society hasn't collapsed because the major tax laws haven't gone into effect yet. In 2014 the Obamacare legislation begins becoming law. It's easy to beat your chest now. Come back and let's hear about how great it is after a full 1/6 of the economy becomes government managed. In fact, you folks with student loans now all owned by Sally Mae, how's that working out for you? I hired three Comp Sci graduates you have $100K in student loans. They own more than I owe on my house.


Obviously their investment in education was wasted. How many people without a college degree did you hire?
2012-11-24 11:53:59 AM
2 votes:

born_yesterday: Abox: born_yesterday: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Everyone always thinks their case of Poland Spring and five-gallon drum of Apocalypse Chow is going to make them Lord Humongous.

Exactly. If society as we know it collapses, it won't be the doomsday tough guys that survive it. It will be the groups of people that come together to cooperate and renew the process of division of labor, and pool their knowledge and resources to restore what they can.

Yep, the same folks that run things now will run things then...engineers.

Heh. Not sure if sarcastic, but I would be willing to argue that the technological advancement/restoration of a society is dependent on the technical knowledge of its engineers and scientists. While it was the footsoldiers of Rome that provided the wealth and farmland, it was the corp of engineers that built the aqueducts and roads that allowed cities to prosper.



Not being sarcastic at all...IMO society is only as successful as its engineers. They may not be the best frontmen, which is why have politicians and CEOs, but they put it together and keep it together.
2012-11-24 11:20:46 AM
2 votes:

belhade: diaphoresis: sethstorm: Businesses are sure trying given their rush to get under the PPACA limits of 50 employees or 30 hours a week - whether by terminations or conversions to precarious employment(read: contractors & temporary workers).

I fired all my employees in July, then hired them back as contractors.

I'll bet your profit margin thanked you heartily.


You can't just reclassify your employees as contractors. If you could, everyone would do it just to avoid paying payroll taxes.

There is a legal difference between an employee and a contractor, irrespective of what you call them. If you call employees contractors and don't pay payroll tax, Uncle Sam will eventually catch up and have a chat. Particularly if your "contractors" are pissed at their new tax status and decide to give him a call.
2012-11-24 10:50:17 AM
2 votes:

diaphoresis: Riiight.... I'm the problem... Government always knows best and is never the problem... See you in 40 yrs when you grow up.


I guess if you can make sweeping generalizations like that, then I guess someone else can make the generalization that you're part of the problem.
2012-11-24 10:46:21 AM
2 votes:

bunner: Are you sure?

*looks out window*

: /

Everything is OK, then?


Everything is just peachy! I just checked. Sol and Mani are still in the sky, Fenrir is still safely chained and I do not see hordes of Einherjar backed up by Valkyries coming across Bifrost. I think the signs all say Ragnarok will not be occurring in the next few minutes, so everyone can just chill out, rotate out a nice MRE for lunch and ponder why anyone who is not Mayan would worry about any misunderstood Mayan "prophecies". My own prophecy that we're fine makes me confident enough to fetch another cup of coffee rather than run screaming in terror.

Let the Mayans worry about Mayan stuff. I got the Norse stuff covered for us, so if I see any "signs or portents" of Ragnarok, I'll be sure and let you all know to give your loved ones a goodbye hug.
2012-11-24 10:45:41 AM
2 votes:
I have a prepper friend. He's an MRE stock-piling gun nut. Here's his logic: "I have guns, so when the shiat hits the fan, nobody can take my stuff. And because I have guns, if I need anything I don't have, I'll be able to use my guns to take stuff from someone else."

He doesn't see any problems with his logic.
2012-11-24 10:19:27 AM
2 votes:

no clever name here just move along: no one really knows what the date is.


No, no, no. I want a fixed date. I'm sick of this apocalypse shiat. I want one specific date and when that date comes and goes, I want everyone to agree to STFU about the end of the world. Thank you.
2012-11-24 10:17:22 AM
2 votes:

wmanning833: Society hasn't collapsed because the major tax laws haven't gone into effect yet. In 2014 the Obamacare legislation begins becoming law. It's easy to beat your chest now. Come back and let's hear about how great it is after a full 1/6 of the economy becomes government managed


You may think Obama is all-powerful but I really don't imagine him taking back even 1/6th of control of the economy from the Federal Reserve and giving it back to the Government.
2012-11-24 10:03:27 AM
2 votes:

diaphoresis: sethstorm: Businesses are sure trying given their rush to get under the PPACA limits of 50 employees or 30 hours a week - whether by terminations or conversions to precarious employment(read: contractors & temporary workers).

I fired all my employees in July, then hired them back as contractors.


cause..... ur a dick?
2012-11-24 09:36:42 AM
2 votes:

no clever name here just move along: no one really knows what the date is. one day some guy said "today is January 1st !" and we've been going on that ever since......so how could anyone say an exact date for the end of the world if all the calendars are wrong?


Uh... actually, they do know. Most calendars are based on repeated astronomical events. With modern technology and knowledge, it's relative easy to pinpoint exact dates in the future.
2012-11-24 09:29:18 AM
2 votes:
Tue preppers couldn't care less who wins what election. The world is going to hell and society is hanging on by a thread and they ain't going down with the rest of ya. Election year preppers are like the hipsters of preppers.
2012-11-24 09:15:40 AM
2 votes:
Give him time.
2012-11-25 02:33:20 PM
1 votes:

Mr. Right:

Christ did not give mankind orders to provide charity. He gave men and women orders to provide charity. There's a difference. Furthermore, when one takes the productivity of another and gives it to whoever he sees fit, that is not charity. Whether an individual extorts the money or a government, spending the money of another is not charity.


Yup, the only time Christ is written to have been pissed off is when money was being extorted from people. It did not matter in any way what the extorted money was to be used for, the extortion itself pissed him off.

Giving to others does not mean taking from others and rationalizing it as being well intended charity.
2012-11-25 07:20:40 AM
1 votes:

Kittypie070: Mr. Right: And the religious angle is also wrong. All of the Biblical injunctions for charity are singular in sense. In other words, YOU as an individual are obligated to help care for the sick, feed the hungry, and give aid to the downtrodden. The Good Samaritan acted as an individual - he didn't refer the beaten man to his local social worker or try to sign him up for Medicare. Christ never lobbied for government aid - he mandated that his followers individually provide for those in need.

No.

The August Son of Heaven indeed gave mankind DIRECT ORDERS straight from His Father to give charity to the poor and aid to the downtrodden.

He did not specify in detail how it was to be done, only that it was COMMANDED to be done.

You do not have the right to alter the word of God by adding anything to it.

It says so with unmistakable clarity in some of the final verses of the Book of Revelations.

Why do you attempt to subvert God's Word by adding the word of the atheist Ayn Rand to it?


Christ did not give mankind orders to provide charity. He gave men and women orders to provide charity. There's a difference. Furthermore, when one takes the productivity of another and gives it to whoever he sees fit, that is not charity. Whether an individual extorts the money or a government, spending the money of another is not charity.

I have not attempted to alter anything in the Bible, nor have I added anything by Ayn Rand. Perhaps you could give me the Randian quote I have supposedly inserted. Not being familiar with her works, I wouldn't know it was a quote if I did use it.

Liberals need to stop assuaging their guilt over being selfish and greedy and refusing to spend their own money to help the poor by electing governments that will do it for them. They insist that the government take more money from the rich (defined as anyone making more money than the liberal speaking) and set up elaborate and multiple welfare schemes that do nothing more than keep the poor perpetually mired in poverty while enriching (or at least providing employment for) the millions of social workers (all members of public sector unions, of course) who believe they are doing good work by spending other peoples' money to tell the poor and downtrodden how they must live their lives. Liberal welfare schemes are like an obsessive mental disorder - they create or invent poor and downtrodden classes in order to help them but they only help them with other peoples' money.  And they must make sure that the programs never lift them out of poverty or they wouldn't be able to feel noble about spending other peoples' money to help the poor.

That is NOT charity.
2012-11-24 03:07:59 PM
1 votes:

TomD9938: Weaver95: He considered screwing over labor to be a stupid idea,

Not providing health insurance to an employee doesnt equal "screwing" them though. It's a relatively new practice born largely out of wage controls (from the 40s I believe) when companies needed different carrots to dangle in order to attract talent.

If given the option between a health plan that costs the company $1000.00/mo or an addtional $1,000/mo in wages I'd take the higher pay and shop for a $500.00 plan on my own.


So what you're saying is that you've never priced out a private health plan.
2012-11-24 03:04:19 PM
1 votes:

diaphoresis: MassAsster: diaphoresis: MassAsster: diaphoresis: sethstorm: Businesses are sure trying given their rush to get under the PPACA limits of 50 employees or 30 hours a week - whether by terminations or conversions to precarious employment(read: contractors & temporary workers).

I fired all my employees in July, then hired them back as contractors.

cause..... ur a dick?

Wrong gender, but yeah, sure.. why not.

The way I see it, unless your employing the just out of collage and begging for a job, your part of the problem..

Healthcare used to be a luxury in this country, something you could do without but was a privilege to have.. Today, with healthcare prices and bull shyt state of the economy, health insurance has become a requirement.

So yeah, It's a real dick move to avoid at all costs giving necessities to your employees.. Rather then look into the very basics of health insurance coverage, the bare essentials you can get away with and satisfy the requirements, you choose to say Fu*k you to your workers and truck on with your shiat management style-

So, single finger salute to you mam, and congratulations on being part of the problem.

Riiight.... I'm the problem... Government always knows best and is never the problem... See you in 40 yrs when you grow up.


Being too dense to realize that screwing people over just to further your own self worth is not helping anyone, I'd say that you ARE the problem, not just a "part" of it.
2012-11-24 02:42:53 PM
1 votes:

CygnusDarius: Mugato: Animatronik: Electing Romney wouldn't have miraculaously solved these problems, but of the two candidates he was the only one acknowledging it.

He wanted to increase military spending, lower taxes on the rich and invade Iran. How the fark was that acknowledging the debt?

Two knights face a dragon. One knight charges towards it with rusty weapons, the other charges back to the village, to get a virgin to give it to the dragon.


Sorry, we're all out of virgins, what with all the raping and pillaging last month. But you can have One-Eyed Guinivere. Her rape wasn't legitimate, so the dragon might still accept her.
2012-11-24 02:27:17 PM
1 votes:

Mr. Right: When an employer such as diaphoresis is faced with the choice of not paying for the health insurance or not being an employer at all, choosing a way to circumvent an onerous government regulation does not make her the problem. The government is the problem. Thinking that Smith's opinion of employee treatment was relevant to the discussion displayed a lack of understanding of the issue. ...


except that's not what's going on here. small businesses are going to be largely exempt from the more heavy costs associated with Obamacare. that's rather the point of the legislation actually. so you are proceeding from false/misleading information and drawing conclusions based on that wildly inaccurate information.

My problem is the GOP's flat out hatred of health care reform. Adam Smith would have been ok with it - a healthy worker is a happy worker and happy workers are good for your business. Even if you wanted to ignore that reality, there's also the religious angle - the Republicans love to claim that they're all christians. last I heard, Christ was ok with healing the sick and helping the poor...so you'd think the Republican party would again be ok with Obamacare. Hey, it's part of their gotdamn religious obligation after all. so that's TWO reasons why the Republican party SHOULD be in favor of Obamacare: secular and religious. But of course, the GOP and it's shills hate the idea. Hence all the confusion from everyone else. A good bit of the GOP's own philosophy says that they should be in favor of a lot of what Obama proposes...but they fight him tooth and claw every chance they get.
2012-11-24 02:08:50 PM
1 votes:

david_gaithersburg: Weaver95: david_gaithersburg:
Don't even try using facts and logic on Weaver.

so you are saying that it's pointless to read 'Wealth of Nations' and that understanding the philosophy of capitalism is a waste of time?

I conglomerate you on your accompaniment.

[thumbnails.hulu.com image 512x288]


I find it fascinating that conservatives in general and you in particular seem determined to ignore the philosophical underpinnings of your own party ideology. And then you wonder why Obama had a landslide victory...
2012-11-24 01:16:06 PM
1 votes:

Mr. Right: Weaver95: Mr. Right:
Until you actually understand anything about economics you shouldn't be quoting tiny little snippets that you think support your point of view..

hmm. so when I passed all those economics courses, you're saying that the professor was lying to me about the work I did...? i'll let him know! thanks man...

Your comment about Adam Smith not being favor of screwing the workers and the context within which you used it shows a profound misunderstanding of Smith.

Having taught several courses in a couple of colleges and universities, I can assure you that it is entirely possible to pass a course without having any real understanding of the material or how to apply the body of knowledge to the world outside the classroom. So your professor may not have been lying to you, he just may have not been able to give you a grade commensurate with what he knew your true level of understanding to be. Chances are that if you do talk to him about this, you won't be telling him anything he doesn't already know.


And on the internet that means precisely...nothing. harsh, I know...but appeals to authority rarely work out the way you expect. now, if you'd bothered explaining WHY you felt adam smith was ok with with f*cking over his workers, that'd be different. that'd be an actual debate. I mean we'd have to meet you on a level playing field then. But you rolled up in here with the 'i'm a professor hear me rawr' thing and well...sorry man, but that ain't gonna wash. you can try it if'n ya want but as a veteran of too many fark politics tab rants to remember I can tell you that i've seen your approach fail time and time again.
2012-11-24 01:16:02 PM
1 votes:

diaphoresis: Researcher:
Go build houses for the impoverished instead of bunkers for yourself, maybe then you'll be less of a cause of societies unraveling.

Just my opinion

I'm amazed you think that will solve anything. But then again, this is Fark. You get what you get.


I know, it's a wacky concept; instead of building bunkers to defend against the impoverished poor, make sure the impoverished poor have a decent place to live, and maybe help with things like urban gardening so they have something to eat.

It's insanity. The only thing that will work is making sure you can kill every last one of 'em when they revolt.
2012-11-24 01:14:53 PM
1 votes:

Animatronik: Electing Romney wouldn't have miraculaously solved these problems, but of the two candidates he was the only one acknowledging it.


He wanted to increase military spending, lower taxes on the rich and invade Iran. How the fark was that acknowledging the debt?
2012-11-24 01:10:59 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: Mr. Right:
Until you actually understand anything about economics you shouldn't be quoting tiny little snippets that you think support your point of view..

hmm. so when I passed all those economics courses, you're saying that the professor was lying to me about the work I did...? i'll let him know! thanks man...


Your comment about Adam Smith not being favor of screwing the workers and the context within which you used it shows a profound misunderstanding of Smith.

Having taught several courses in a couple of colleges and universities, I can assure you that it is entirely possible to pass a course without having any real understanding of the material or how to apply the body of knowledge to the world outside the classroom. So your professor may not have been lying to you, he just may have not been able to give you a grade commensurate with what he knew your true level of understanding to be. Chances are that if you do talk to him about this, you won't be telling him anything he doesn't already know.
2012-11-24 12:56:48 PM
1 votes:

diaphoresis: Weaver95: diaphoresis: Weaver95: diaphoresis:
To paint all businesses with the same brush is highly ignorant, irresponsible, and a perfect example of the failure of public education.

is that what I did? hmm. I mentioned that Adam Smith thought it was a bad idea to screw over your workers. nothing more or less than that. your response was...intriguing.

No.. that ISN'T what YOU did... thank you.

here's what I said:

did you know that Adam Smith (yes, THAT Adam Smith, the founder of capitalism) was a big proponent of worker's rights? he saw labor as an investment - that if you shared the wealth with your workers and made sure they understood WHY you were helping them out then you'd have a loyal work force that knew the business and was equally invested in it's success. He considered screwing over labor to be a stupid idea, since it only hurt you in the long run.

Interesting, isn't it?

your response included a disparaging comment about public education and a lot of justification for being a greedy asshat. I didn't make accusations, I didn't make comments about your philosophy...I merely reminded you of an uncomfortable truth: that the father of capitalism believed that workers were/are an investment, and just as important as the equipment they operate. not for reasons of sentiment, but because they are part of his economic equations for success.

interesting that you changed the subject so quickly....

/sigh


You're looking pretty ignorant and stubborn here. I think, in the retard contest, you're losing.
2012-11-24 12:22:15 PM
1 votes:

arghhh: I am really looking forward December 22nd 2012 so we can finally lay all this 2012-internet-crap to rest.


I'm really looking forward to it so I can buy stuff like generators and fuel cans on craigslist for cheap.
2012-11-24 11:59:27 AM
1 votes:
I've been stockpiling porn for years.

/Prepared
2012-11-24 11:58:21 AM
1 votes:

diaphoresis: sethstorm: Businesses are sure trying given their rush to get under the PPACA limits of 50 employees or 30 hours a week - whether by terminations or conversions to precarious employment(read: contractors & temporary workers).

I fired all my employees in July, then hired them back as contractors.


Scarlett Johannsen invited me over yesterday to have a threesome with Mila Kunis, but because of 0butt's high gas prices, I decided to stay home and jerk off to the bra section in the Sears catalog. Because of 0booboo, two horny and hot ladies are going unsatisfied. Way to go, 0boogaloo.
2012-11-24 11:47:47 AM
1 votes:

diaphoresis: MassAsster: diaphoresis: MassAsster: diaphoresis: sethstorm: Businesses are sure trying given their rush to get under the PPACA limits of 50 employees or 30 hours a week - whether by terminations or conversions to precarious employment(read: contractors & temporary workers).

I fired all my employees in July, then hired them back as contractors.

cause..... ur a dick?

Wrong gender, but yeah, sure.. why not.

The way I see it, unless your employing the just out of collage and begging for a job, your part of the problem..

Healthcare used to be a luxury in this country, something you could do without but was a privilege to have.. Today, with healthcare prices and bull shyt state of the economy, health insurance has become a requirement.

So yeah, It's a real dick move to avoid at all costs giving necessities to your employees.. Rather then look into the very basics of health insurance coverage, the bare essentials you can get away with and satisfy the requirements, you choose to say Fu*k you to your workers and truck on with your shiat management style-

So, single finger salute to you mam, and congratulations on being part of the problem.

Riiight.... I'm the problem... Government always knows best and is never the problem... See you in 40 yrs when you grow up.


Given that most other businesses will start offering healthcare, I would expect your "contractors" to suddenly stop showing up.
2012-11-24 11:46:44 AM
1 votes:

diaphoresis: Weaver95: diaphoresis:
Riiight.... I'm the problem... Government always knows best and is never the problem... See you in 40 yrs when you grow up.

did you know that Adam Smith (yes, THAT Adam Smith, the founder of capitalism) was a big proponent of worker's rights? he saw labor as an investment - that if you shared the wealth with your workers and made sure they understood WHY you were helping them out then you'd have a loyal work force that knew the business and was equally invested in it's success. He considered screwing over labor to be a stupid idea, since it only hurt you in the long run.

Interesting, isn't it?

Interesting, however, he did not believe in worker's rights to the exclusion of everything else. There is a balance that is rarely achieved in this arena. As times change so must business and employee expectations. While I do not disagree that health insurance is needed, until the economy changes and the costs to business can be better absorbed, some 'truly' small businesses (1-25 employees) will choose to keep as many employed as possible rather than reduce their workforce by 15-30%. It's a pretty simple decision. Keep people employed or get rid of 'up to' 1/3... especially around the holidays.

To paint all businesses with the same brush is highly ignorant, irresponsible, and a perfect example of the failure of public education.


Hope this isn't all about health insurance, those "truly" small businesses under 50 people are exempt from ACA health insurance requirements. So those truly small businesses are safe. If you do own a business and didn't know about that, that's funny right here.

Of course, if its just because your business model stinks right now and you're scrambling to survive, well, good luck.
2012-11-24 11:42:54 AM
1 votes:

justsomeusername: You can't just reclassify your employees as contractors. If you could, everyone would do it just to avoid paying payroll taxes.

There is a legal difference between an employee and a contractor, irrespective of what you call them. If you call employees contractors and don't pay payroll tax, Uncle Sam will eventually catch up and have a chat. Particularly if your "contractors" are pissed at their new tax status and decide to give him a call.


That, and it is the wrong-headed way to use a contractor. They're meant for providing a temporary service, not as a tax dodge or a way to insulate oneself from workers (and their concerns).
2012-11-24 11:31:34 AM
1 votes:
Save for retirement. Then, save more. Retirement is actually going to happen to you. Doomsday never comes.
2012-11-24 11:21:51 AM
1 votes:

diaphoresis:
/sigh


no, really - please continue.
2012-11-24 11:10:12 AM
1 votes:

oryx: I have to chuckle about these Doomsday preppers on the National Geographic Channel. Each one is preparing for a different apocalypse. Some are natural, others are man made. There are hundreds of them, yet each prepper is sure the one he is preparing for is the one.


That's why a decent prepper just prepares for life. Preparing for a blackout or a tornado is little different than preparing for some end of the world nonsense. It's just a matter of how long you can be self sustaining. The methodology is the same, and you'll just happen to be living a better life in the process. Learn to grow much of your own food. Learn to repair things on your own. Store some consumables like fresh water, medical supplies, emergency food, fuel, etc. And learn how to use it all appropriately. And it all works equally well no matter what you're preparing for.

Example: I've got 6 months of food stored. It's a mixture of canned goods I already know I like, MRE's (that I actually also like), and thing like beans and rice stored through vacuums sealing. But I also know how to grow my own vegatables. When I get a house I might get some sort of livestock, like chickens. Now does that stuff keep me self sustaining if there's some apocalypse? Yep. But more importantly, it's good for a natural disasters. I can eat it myself, or hand it out to neighbors. It's also good if I suffer some financial crunch on my own and need to reduce grocery purchases. And growing my own stuff is healthier.

Just grow a "How can I do this on my own?" mindset, and the preparations will come from there. You'll be much more able to deal with anything, big or small.
2012-11-24 11:00:10 AM
1 votes:

diaphoresis:
To paint all businesses with the same brush is highly ignorant, irresponsible, and a perfect example of the failure of public education.


is that what I did? hmm. I mentioned that Adam Smith thought it was a bad idea to screw over your workers. nothing more or less than that. your response was...intriguing.
2012-11-24 10:54:36 AM
1 votes:

Weaver95: diaphoresis:
Riiight.... I'm the problem... Government always knows best and is never the problem... See you in 40 yrs when you grow up.

did you know that Adam Smith (yes, THAT Adam Smith, the founder of capitalism) was a big proponent of worker's rights? he saw labor as an investment - that if you shared the wealth with your workers and made sure they understood WHY you were helping them out then you'd have a loyal work force that knew the business and was equally invested in it's success. He considered screwing over labor to be a stupid idea, since it only hurt you in the long run.

Interesting, isn't it?


Interesting, however, he did not believe in worker's rights to the exclusion of everything else. There is a balance that is rarely achieved in this arena. As times change so must business and employee expectations. While I do not disagree that health insurance is needed, until the economy changes and the costs to business can be better absorbed, some 'truly' small businesses (1-25 employees) will choose to keep as many employed as possible rather than reduce their workforce by 15-30%. It's a pretty simple decision. Keep people employed or get rid of 'up to' 1/3... especially around the holidays.

To paint all businesses with the same brush is highly ignorant, irresponsible, and a perfect example of the failure of public education.
2012-11-24 10:48:58 AM
1 votes:

diaphoresis: sethstorm: Businesses are sure trying given their rush to get under the PPACA limits of 50 employees or 30 hours a week - whether by terminations or conversions to precarious employment(read: contractors & temporary workers).

I fired all my employees in July, then hired them back as contractors.


I'll bet your profit margin thanked you heartily.
2012-11-24 10:43:04 AM
1 votes:

Abox: born_yesterday: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Everyone always thinks their case of Poland Spring and five-gallon drum of Apocalypse Chow is going to make them Lord Humongous.

Exactly. If society as we know it collapses, it won't be the doomsday tough guys that survive it. It will be the groups of people that come together to cooperate and renew the process of division of labor, and pool their knowledge and resources to restore what they can.

Yep, the same folks that run things now will run things then...engineers.


Heh. Not sure if sarcastic, but I would be willing to argue that the technological advancement/restoration of a society is dependent on the technical knowledge of its engineers and scientists. While it was the footsoldiers of Rome that provided the wealth and farmland, it was the corp of engineers that built the aqueducts and roads that allowed cities to prosper.

There is an interesting exhibit at the Field museum in Chicago about how leadership roles change as societies develop. Smaller groups tend to seek leaders that can best feed them and keep them from getting eaten, or killed by other tribes. As these groups continue to grow, and labor gets more specialized, the importance of these leaders is reduced, almost to the point of abstraction. If "doomsday" does occur, I'd prefer to find myself in a group of engineers, doctors, and farmers, rather than my Congressional representatives.
2012-11-24 10:34:39 AM
1 votes:
I have to chuckle about these Doomsday preppers on the National Geographic Channel. Each one is preparing for a different apocalypse. Some are natural, others are man made. There are hundreds of them, yet each prepper is sure the one he is preparing for is the one.
2012-11-24 10:32:23 AM
1 votes:
look, the world isn't going to end...the current age is going to end. then dragons come back, magic starts working again and those f*cking elves are gonna pull a fast one on the US government.
2012-11-24 10:18:33 AM
1 votes:

born_yesterday: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Everyone always thinks their case of Poland Spring and five-gallon drum of Apocalypse Chow is going to make them Lord Humongous.

Exactly. If society as we know it collapses, it won't be the doomsday tough guys that survive it. It will be the groups of people that come together to cooperate and renew the process of division of labor, and pool their knowledge and resources to restore what they can.


Yep, the same folks that run things now will run things then...engineers.
2012-11-24 10:05:45 AM
1 votes:

Researcher:
Go build houses for the impoverished instead of bunkers for yourself, maybe then you'll be less of a cause of societies unraveling.

Just my opinion


I'm amazed you think that will solve anything. But then again, this is Fark. You get what you get.
2012-11-24 09:58:08 AM
1 votes:

Tanthalas39: Come back and let's hear about how great it is after a full 1/6 of the economy becomes government managed.

Because it's been 1/5.9th managed under Republican control for the last twenty years, and this is the tipping point?


Oh, I know you did not just imply 1/5.9 is smaller than 1/6.
2012-11-24 09:47:40 AM
1 votes:
Well if things don't pan out next month they'll have to wait until 2029
2012-11-24 09:39:07 AM
1 votes:

no clever name here just move along: no one really knows what the date is. one day some guy said "today is January 1st !" and we've been going on that ever since......so how could anyone say an exact date for the end of the world if all the calendars are wrong?


It's because they predict Date B in reference to Date A, the day the prediction is made.
2012-11-24 09:33:41 AM
1 votes:

wmanning833: Society hasn't collapsed because the major tax laws haven't gone into effect yet. In 2014 the Obamacare legislation begins becoming law. It's easy to beat your chest now. Come back and let's hear about how great it is after a full 1/6 of the economy becomes government managed. In fact, you folks with student loans now all owned by Sally Mae, how's that working out for you? I hired three Comp Sci graduates you have $100K in student loans. They own more than I owe on my house.


What are you on about? I have a hard time reading derp sometimes.
2012-11-24 09:25:16 AM
1 votes:
Society hasn't collapsed because the major tax laws haven't gone into effect yet. In 2014 the Obamacare legislation begins becoming law. It's easy to beat your chest now. Come back and let's hear about how great it is after a full 1/6 of the economy becomes government managed. In fact, you folks with student loans now all owned by Sally Mae, how's that working out for you? I hired three Comp Sci graduates you have $100K in student loans. They own more than I owe on my house.
2012-11-24 09:24:18 AM
1 votes:
I'm sure they haven't cleaned out their bugout rooms just yet anyway.
2012-11-24 09:24:07 AM
1 votes:
Businesses are sure trying given their rush to get under the PPACA limits of 50 employees or 30 hours a week - whether by terminations or conversions to precarious employment(read: contractors & temporary workers).
2012-11-24 09:21:56 AM
1 votes:
Ok, that's it. I'm going to start selling ammo.

Three thousand or more pieces of literature claim that the Maya predicted the Earth will be destroyed on this date.

Comics do not count as "literature."
 
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