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(Abc.net.au)   Sweden's largest toy chain says its toys are "gender neutral", picturing boys holding baby dolls and girls brandishing toy guns. Not that there's anything wrong with that   (abc.net.au) divider line 22
    More: Silly, Sweden, toy gun, gender neutral, baby chicks, Toys R Us, toys, opera singers, boys holding  
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3942 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Nov 2012 at 9:11 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-24 11:09:01 AM  
7 votes:

Moosecakes: It's one thing to make gender neutral catalogues. It's another thing entirely to actively encourage boys to act like girls, and girls to act like boys. Add this together with the weird stories about using new gender-neutral pronouns, and childcare centers encouraging children to play house in combos of boy-boy, girl-girl, boy-boy-girl and other weird stuff, Sweden is going to have an extremely confused generation of children soon who have no idea what the hell they are.


... or an extremely empowered generation of children who understand that they can do anything they want, regardless of what some uptight jackoff with a holy book thinks.
2012-11-24 12:36:40 PM  
5 votes:

Theaetetus: Isn't that social engineering?


This definitely isn't social engineering.
farm5.staticflickr.com

Kids are stupid, but they aren't that stupid. They're smart enough to get the subtle messages that society is trying to send them about who they should be, but they're not smart enough to realise that those messages are just somebody else's dumb idea that they don't actually have to follow. Some people aren't smart enough to realise this even after they've become adults.
2012-11-24 11:07:16 AM  
5 votes:
It's one thing to make gender neutral catalogues. It's another thing entirely to actively encourage boys to act like girls, and girls to act like boys. Add this together with the weird stories about using new gender-neutral pronouns, and childcare centers encouraging children to play house in combos of boy-boy, girl-girl, boy-boy-girl and other weird stuff, Sweden is going to have an extremely confused generation of children soon who have no idea what the hell they are.
2012-11-24 12:04:22 PM  
3 votes:
Kids come with these notions in their head by default. I never stated anything against homosexuals in front of my children, the opposite really, but my daughter came to the conclusion that it was yucky to be gay. The prospect of me marrying my female Skyrim character to another female was gross, not quite repulsive but she was adamant that it was wrong. I explained to her that a lot of people are just born like that, but she kept complaining until I changed it. I've found this behavior interesting, she's genuinely a sweet little girl with no ill will towards gays but she finds the behavior quite confusing. In Skyrim, instead of running around killing dragons and leveling up armor, she spends time adopting children for her mansion she's able to customize, and courting a husband. No role model in real life displays this type of behavior for her to mimmic, this is just what she is magnetized toward.

I think the uneasiness towards homosexuality (or boys playing with girls toys-type behavior) is a very natural thing for children if they weren't raised around those type of people. The gay behavior is out of the norm, and so it can be confusing at first for them to understand, because they aren't old enough to understand relationships. I initially wanted to scold her for saying statements like "homosexuality is gross", if it was a contemporary acquaintance I'd probably tell them to grow up. But it really just is that deep in their bones. The acceptance of "some boys act like girls" or vice versa will have to occur when they are old enough to start understanding relationships.
2012-11-24 11:59:28 AM  
2 votes:
Awesome!

Moosecakes: It's one thing to make gender neutral catalogues. It's another thing entirely to actively encourage boys to act like girls, and girls to act like boys. Add this together with the weird stories about using new gender-neutral pronouns, and childcare centers encouraging children to play house in combos of boy-boy, girl-girl, boy-boy-girl and other weird stuff, Sweden is going to have an extremely confused generation of children soon who have no idea what the hell they are.


How about we just encourage people to be whoever they are? If they're a boy who likes dolls, well, that's fine. If they're a boy who likes trucks, that's OK, too. If they're a girl who likes trucks, that's fine. If they're a girl who likes dolls, that's OK, too.

I don't think it's OK to impose a gender role upon a kid, whether it's the one for the sex the child is or the opposite one. It's 2012. We should beyond this crap already.
2012-11-24 11:57:07 AM  
2 votes:

GORDON: Theaetetus: Moosecakes: It's one thing to make gender neutral catalogues. It's another thing entirely to actively encourage boys to act like girls, and girls to act like boys. Add this together with the weird stories about using new gender-neutral pronouns, and childcare centers encouraging children to play house in combos of boy-boy, girl-girl, boy-boy-girl and other weird stuff, Sweden is going to have an extremely confused generation of children soon who have no idea what the hell they are.

... or an extremely empowered generation of children who understand that they can do anything they want, regardless of what some uptight jackoff with a holy book thinks.

Yeah, because people today have real hard time right understanding they can do anything they want, don't they Ru Paul.

Just another solution lacking a real problem. I bet there's a wrist band for it.


Know how I know you don't have kids?

I was lucky enough to be raised by hippy, PhD wielding teachers, who fully embraced a gender neutral upbringing for me and my sisters. I've followed in the same fashion with my children and this solution that lacks a problem only yields compassionate and confident children. Without worrying about how others perceive you, especially during the hormonally tumultuous time of adolescents my self, my siblings and my children were/are able to cut though the bullshiat of how people perceive and judge you based on your appearance and societal expectations and instead focus on school and extracurriculars. I can honestly say I had a blast being a dorky, one of the guys girls in high school, I wouldn't change it for the world.

Mind you children will socialize in-spite of your best efforts, but when they come home and aren't pressured to be masculine or feminine and can talk about how ridiculous it all is, and laugh at how seriously their peers take fitting into preconceived boxes I will never regret the decision my husband and I made for our children.
2012-11-24 11:03:36 AM  
2 votes:
That, and the IKEA Catalog has become the most printed book ever, overtaking the Bible.

If anything, it's a magazine.


Anyway, buy kids Legos, not lame dolls or sad little plastic guns. With good toys, they can make their own dolls and guns.
2012-11-24 08:57:40 PM  
1 votes:
GF named my left testicle thundercles: I once remember seeing a tv interview with some parents who were raising their kid so 'gender neutral' that they were keeping their child's sex a big mystery from everybody. Supposedly, this would help the kid avoid the dreaded 'gender boxes' and develop their own healthy gender identity and so on, et cetera. Their kid was flouncing-around on the lawn in a pink dress the whole while. (It was predictably a boy. As I said: they go out of their way to do this to boys.)

Then, at one point, the interviewer asked if there were any toys or clothes the parents did not allow?

The parents replied: "Yes, we don't allow hypermasculine stuff."

Uh huh, right. So the kid can freely choose whatever gender identity he wants, so long as he gets as far away as possible from that evil 'hypermasculine' end of the spectrum. Sure, mommy smiles a lot more when he wears that pink dress and acts like a princess, but he's totally free to choose whatever gender identity he wants!

What a farce.

A good question for the parents is: How can this boy freely choose a gender identity for himself if you're jerking him around like that?

Screw the kid, though. The parents want to show how progressive they are! That's what truly matters.
2012-11-24 04:08:18 PM  
1 votes:
Sigh. That's not "gender-neutral". That's just swapping gender toy interests.

Goddamnit, Sweden. Get it right.
2012-11-24 01:13:12 PM  
1 votes:
Boys playing with dolls? Ridiculous, What a useless skill set. Girls playing with guns OTOH = Fark yeah!
Women who can handle firearms are the ones you marry.

/and NEVER cheat on.
2012-11-24 12:40:35 PM  
1 votes:
My daughter preferred stuffed animals to dolls. And my stepsons, who were not technically allowed to own toy guns, could turn literally anything into some kind of weapon anyway. Even a well thrown handful of crayons can sting a bit when they hit the skin.
2012-11-24 12:38:13 PM  
1 votes:

Theaetetus: As DrewCurtisJr admits above, kids don't "fall" into gender roles, traditional or otherwise - we practice social engineering that results in the majority of them being conditioned to comply with traditional gender roles.


I admitted no such thing. You advertise your products to your target audience. Boys and girls have innate differences, and while there is some overlap, will choose different types of activities if given free choice.
2012-11-24 12:38:04 PM  
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: Theaetetus: Which ones? If telling boys that it's okay to play with dolls and telling girls that it's okay to play with guns is "social engineering," then (a) isn't telling boys that it's okay to play with guns and telling girls that it's okay to play with dolls also social engineering,

This catalog thing is a result of a much bigger effort.

and (b) aren't you admitting that social engineering already exists and has an effect on kids?

No, in the absence of these efforts that is the way people would normally behave. There is no effort to influence behavior or results.


If social engineering towards gender neutrality is a "much bigger" effort, then it's gotta be bigger than some other social engineering practice, no? Again, by making that comparison, aren't you admitting that there's social engineering pushing kids towards a gender dichotomy?

And as for "no effort to influence behavior", see the above homework assignment, as well as the Toys R Us Gendered Gift Guide which lets you pick the exact same traits and interests for boys and girls, and then suggests a very different set of toys.
2012-11-24 12:32:15 PM  
1 votes:

Honest Bender: Why do some people INSIST that we treat boys/girls the EXACT same? They aren't exactly the same. The majority of kids fall into traditional gender rolls.


As DrewCurtisJr admits above, kids don't "fall" into gender roles, traditional or otherwise - we practice social engineering that results in the majority of them being conditioned to comply with traditional gender roles.

It's either that or try and shoehorn everyone into the same mold. So either a small minority of people don't "fit" the mold or EVERYONE doesn't fit. Which sounds more reasonable?

Except that, one, there isn't a "the mold". Kids are individuals, not binary switches. And two, the shoehorning that Sweden is doing is shoehorning them out of being placed into these molds. If you're "shoehorning" people into being individuals, is that really shoehorning?
2012-11-24 12:30:54 PM  
1 votes:
Just let kids decide for themselves which toys they like. Take them to Toys 'Я' Us and see what catches their eye.

It's not your job as parents to police which toys your kids like. Excepting, of course, safety and morality concerns.
2012-11-24 12:28:49 PM  
1 votes:

D_Evans45: Kids come with these notions in their head by default. I never stated anything against homosexuals in front of my children, the opposite really, but my daughter came to the conclusion that it was yucky to be gay.


And your daughter doesn't go to school, watch television, or otherwise interact with anyone except you? Come on.
2012-11-24 12:28:16 PM  
1 votes:

D_Evans45: Kids come with these notions in their head by default. I never stated anything against homosexuals in front of my children, the opposite really, but my daughter came to the conclusion that it was yucky to be gay. The prospect of me marrying my female Skyrim character to another female was gross, not quite repulsive but she was adamant that it was wrong. I explained to her that a lot of people are just born like that, but she kept complaining until I changed it. I've found this behavior interesting, she's genuinely a sweet little girl with no ill will towards gays but she finds the behavior quite confusing. In Skyrim, instead of running around killing dragons and leveling up armor, she spends time adopting children for her mansion she's able to customize, and courting a husband. No role model in real life displays this type of behavior for her to mimmic, this is just what she is magnetized toward.

I think the uneasiness towards homosexuality (or boys playing with girls toys-type behavior) is a very natural thing for children if they weren't raised around those type of people. The gay behavior is out of the norm, and so it can be confusing at first for them to understand, because they aren't old enough to understand relationships. I initially wanted to scold her for saying statements like "homosexuality is gross", if it was a contemporary acquaintance I'd probably tell them to grow up. But it really just is that deep in their bones. The acceptance of "some boys act like girls" or vice versa will have to occur when they are old enough to start understanding relationships.


Yes, because your daughter could never get an idea in her head that didn't come from you. She obviously doesn't go to a school where "gay" is a generic term of abuse that kids throw around even before they know what it means (or at least, that's how it was in my day). This aversion to homosexuality has no other explanation than some kind of innate disgust. She certainly doesn't live in a youth culture that has an intense pressure to conform and tends to ostracise random groups of people it labels as outsiders.

/Don't worry, in a few year's she'll probably end up "practice kissing" with her girlfriends
//which isn't gay of course, cos it's just practice
2012-11-24 12:26:01 PM  
1 votes:

DrewCurtisJr: Theaetetus: ... or an extremely empowered generation of children who understand that they can do anything they want, regardless of what some uptight jackoff with a holy book thinks.

Anything they want, as long as it is approved by the social engineers.


Which ones? If telling boys that it's okay to play with dolls and telling girls that it's okay to play with guns is "social engineering," then (a) isn't telling boys that it's okay to play with guns and telling girls that it's okay to play with dolls also social engineering, and (b) aren't you admitting that social engineering already exists and has an effect on kids?

There's a story on the Sociological Images blog about this homework assignment, in which 8 year olds were instructed to categorize toys by "boys", "girls", and "both"... And this one girl failed, because she put too many things in the "both" category:
static.thesocietypages.org
Isn't that social engineering?
2012-11-24 12:20:42 PM  
1 votes:
Why do some people INSIST that we treat boys/girls the EXACT same? They aren't exactly the same. The majority of kids fall into traditional gender rolls. Nothing wrong with that. There's definitely a sub-section of the population who buck tradition. Nothing wrong with that, either.

But why not advertise to the majority? You'll marginalize the minority, I suppose. But as long as we all teach our children understanding and acceptance and as long as we try to educate in the presence of ignorance... what's the problem?

It's either that or try and shoehorn everyone into the same mold. So either a small minority of people don't "fit" the mold or EVERYONE doesn't fit. Which sounds more reasonable?
2012-11-24 11:45:33 AM  
1 votes:
Keep farking that chicken.
2012-11-24 11:15:42 AM  
1 votes:

Theaetetus: Moosecakes: It's one thing to make gender neutral catalogues. It's another thing entirely to actively encourage boys to act like girls, and girls to act like boys. Add this together with the weird stories about using new gender-neutral pronouns, and childcare centers encouraging children to play house in combos of boy-boy, girl-girl, boy-boy-girl and other weird stuff, Sweden is going to have an extremely confused generation of children soon who have no idea what the hell they are.

... or an extremely empowered generation of children who understand that they can do anything they want, regardless of what some uptight jackoff with a holy book thinks.


Yeah, because people today have real hard time right understanding they can do anything they want, don't they Ru Paul.

Just another solution lacking a real problem. I bet there's a wrist band for it.
2012-11-24 09:20:43 AM  
1 votes:
That, and the IKEA Catalog has become the most printed book ever, overtaking the Bible.

Everybody panic!
 
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