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(CNN)   Ireland is being pressured to leave the ranks of third world nations   (cnn.com) divider line 101
    More: Followup, abortion debate, Ireland, public inquiry, health information, back pain  
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4710 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Nov 2012 at 2:31 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-23 09:06:41 AM
lol. that's funny.
 
2012-11-23 09:25:51 AM
But just think, she's now with her child in heaven and...ah wait, they're from India. Never mind.

/Christian logic
 
2012-11-23 09:30:26 AM
I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."
 
2012-11-23 09:33:00 AM

ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."


Your argument is invalidated because Jesus.
 
2012-11-23 09:47:08 AM

ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."


Conservatives haven't gotten abortion banned yet, so we're still good to mock.
 
2012-11-23 09:47:20 AM

kid_icarus: ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."

Your argument is invalidated because Jesus.


I always forget Jesus.
 
2012-11-23 09:54:26 AM

kid_icarus: ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."

Your argument is invalidated because Jesus.


star.psy.ohio-state.edu
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-11-23 10:09:52 AM
Well, when you decide to settle in a backwards country run by theocrats who think it's still the middle ages that's the risk you take.
 
2012-11-23 10:58:03 AM
And yet another story dealing with Christians that has pissed me off. I need more pie!!
 
2012-11-23 11:01:44 AM

ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."


In the U.S. there are more women having babies when they're older, and more diabetic/obese women having babies.
 
2012-11-23 11:09:30 AM
When I read a story like that it makes me want to cry and/or stab somebody.
 
2012-11-23 11:10:24 AM

vpb: Well, when you decide to settle in a backwards country run by theocrats who think it's still the middle ages that's the risk you take.


I guess y'all are just taking a slightly lower risk by staying in the US.
 
2012-11-23 11:15:32 AM

Fark It: ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."

In the U.S. there are more women having babies when they're older, and more diabetic/obese women having babies.


"The usual suspects--poverty, pre-existing conditions, obesity, teen pregnancy and lack of prenatal care--are most likely NOT completely responsible for the number of women who leave hospitals in coffins rather than walking out with their newborns in their arms."

You should educate yourself on women's health issues in this country before blaming them for dying while pregnant at the highest rate of any developed nation.

"...the maternal deaths in New York City were not correlated with poverty, education, obesity, lack of prenatal care or pre-existing conditions. One statistic in the study does stand out though: Of those mothers who died of embolisms, 82 percent were African American, 0 percent were white. Disturbing racial disparities also occurred in the other major causes of maternal death: hemorrhage, infection and pregnancy-induced hypertension. Embolisms are widely considered preventable."

Link
 
2012-11-23 11:17:02 AM

mrshowrules: vpb: Well, when you decide to settle in a backwards country run by theocrats who think it's still the middle ages that's the risk you take.

I guess y'all are just taking a slightly lower risk by staying in the US.


Maternal mortality is actually a higher risk in the US.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-11-23 11:20:25 AM

mrshowrules: vpb: Well, when you decide to settle in a backwards country run by theocrats who think it's still the middle ages that's the risk you take.

I guess y'all are just taking a slightly lower risk by staying in the US.


It depends on which one of the United States you are talking about.
 
2012-11-23 11:37:53 AM

vpb: mrshowrules: vpb: Well, when you decide to settle in a backwards country run by theocrats who think it's still the middle ages that's the risk you take.

I guess y'all are just taking a slightly lower risk by staying in the US.

It depends on which one of the United States you are talking about.


I guess the ones where corn chips is considered a vegetable and a beautiful pick-up truck is what the bride and groom rent for their big day.
 
2012-11-23 11:50:45 AM

ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."


I wonder what that rate is by U.S. state?
 
2012-11-23 12:22:42 PM

make me some tea: ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."

I wonder what that rate is by U.S. state?


Link. Nearly twice as high in the District, surprisingly low in Alaska.
 
2012-11-23 12:50:22 PM

GAT_00: make me some tea: ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."

I wonder what that rate is by U.S. state?

Link. Nearly twice as high in the District, surprisingly low in Alaska.


Wow.

According to this, D.C. is so high because too many women don't have health insurance, hence they don't get prenatal care, which increases their likelihood of dying during childbirth by 4x.

Damn. That sucks.
 
2012-11-23 01:03:57 PM

GAT_00: make me some tea: ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."

I wonder what that rate is by U.S. state?

Link. Nearly twice as high in the District, surprisingly low in Alaska.


We can't actually measure it accurately. Only 21 states track maternal mortality rates. The CDC suspended reporting several years ago. The CIA and most international health organizations consider the US to be widely under-reporting the crisis. The one thing everyone agrees on is that it has at least tripled in the last couple of decades.
 
2012-11-23 01:09:57 PM
It's time for the Irish to take this shiat to the streets. A couple of months back the conservative government in Turkey tried to severely restrict abortion and women (and men) took to the streets in massive numbers. Eventually the government backed down.
 
2012-11-23 01:16:35 PM

coco ebert: It's time for the Irish to take this shiat to the streets. A couple of months back the conservative government in Turkey tried to severely restrict abortion and women (and men) took to the streets in massive numbers. Eventually the government backed down.


Women should just lock that shiat up until they get what they want. No pussy until you tell me its my pussy.
 
2012-11-23 02:20:20 PM

mrshowrules: coco ebert: It's time for the Irish to take this shiat to the streets. A couple of months back the conservative government in Turkey tried to severely restrict abortion and women (and men) took to the streets in massive numbers. Eventually the government backed down.

Women should just lock that shiat up until they get what they want. No pussy until you tell me its my pussy.


Wut
 
2012-11-23 02:26:54 PM
Now that's some PRO-LIFE shiat right there!

PRAISE JESUS!!
 
2012-11-23 02:41:51 PM
What a chintzy moneygrubbing tight-ass cheapskate. Would it have killed his pocketbook to fly to France or Italy or Mexico or Mississippi to get a legal abortion to save the life of his wife? It's not like they don't ban pregnant women from flying to prevent abortions?
 
2012-11-23 02:48:17 PM
Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.
 
2012-11-23 02:49:29 PM

coco ebert: mrshowrules: coco ebert: It's time for the Irish to take this shiat to the streets. A couple of months back the conservative government in Turkey tried to severely restrict abortion and women (and men) took to the streets in massive numbers. Eventually the government backed down.

Women should just lock that shiat up until they get what they want. No pussy until you tell me its my pussy.

Wut


Irish women should have a sex strike until Irish society agrees that women should have control of their own reproductive rights.
 
2012-11-23 02:51:39 PM

Kevin72: What a chintzy moneygrubbing tight-ass cheapskate. Would it have killed his pocketbook to fly to France or Italy or Mexico or Mississippi to get a legal abortion to save the life of his wife? It's not like they don't ban pregnant women from flying to prevent abortions?


Don't know if you are trolling or skipped the article, but they weren't planning on an abortion until they went to the hospital and encountered problems.
 
2012-11-23 02:56:15 PM

SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.


...and Switzerland, as a neutral country, is also a third-world nation?
 
2012-11-23 02:57:27 PM

coco ebert: It's time for the Irish to take this shiat to the streets. A couple of months back the conservative government in Turkey tried to severely restrict abortion and women (and men) took to the streets in massive numbers. Eventually the government backed down.


When Turkey makes you look bad, it's time to reevaluate things.
Ireland, get your shiat together and allow abortions, and of course the right for abortion protestors to get abortions and lie about it.
 
2012-11-23 02:58:58 PM

make me some tea: I wonder what that rate is by U.S. state?


State Data

As always, New England is Best England America.
1. Maine (lowest)
2. Vermont
5. Massachusetts
7. Rhode Island
 
2012-11-23 03:00:47 PM

FarkTorrance: SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.

...and Switzerland, as a neutral country, is also a third-world nation?


Yes.

People erroneously say "third world" when what they mean is "developing nation"
 
2012-11-23 03:03:47 PM
kid_icarus: But just think, she's now with her child in heaven and...ah wait, they're from India. Never mind.

/Christian logic


Is Christian logic a lot like strawman logic?
 
2012-11-23 03:05:09 PM
ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."


Strange...this article is about Indians living in Ireland. How does the United States figure?
 
2012-11-23 03:11:36 PM

liam76: Kevin72: What a chintzy moneygrubbing tight-ass cheapskate. Would it have killed his pocketbook to fly to France or Italy or Mexico or Mississippi to get a legal abortion to save the life of his wife? It's not like they don't ban pregnant women from flying to prevent abortions?

Don't know if you are trolling or skipped the article, but they weren't planning on an abortion until they went to the hospital and encountered problems.


I was a bit tough on him. But to save the life of his wife, couldn't they have done some kind of emergency trip to Scotland or England at whatever the cost? He's an engineer and she was a dentist, income-wise. Lifesaving, my son, lifesaving.
 
2012-11-23 03:15:44 PM

SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their communist allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.


Thank you.
 
2012-11-23 03:21:36 PM

Cubicle Jockey: make me some tea: I wonder what that rate is by U.S. state?

State Data

As always, New England is Best England America.
1. Maine (lowest)
2. Vermont
5. Massachusetts
7. Rhode Island


He said "States". I'm pretty sure those are Canadian Provinces.
 
2012-11-23 03:29:34 PM

SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.


Ireland is a US ally? This will come as a surprise to them.
 
2012-11-23 03:32:30 PM

Kevin72: liam76: Kevin72: What a chintzy moneygrubbing tight-ass cheapskate. Would it have killed his pocketbook to fly to France or Italy or Mexico or Mississippi to get a legal abortion to save the life of his wife? It's not like they don't ban pregnant women from flying to prevent abortions?

Don't know if you are trolling or skipped the article, but they weren't planning on an abortion until they went to the hospital and encountered problems.

I was a bit tough on him. But to save the life of his wife, couldn't they have done some kind of emergency trip to Scotland or England at whatever the cost? He's an engineer and she was a dentist, income-wise. Lifesaving, my son, lifesaving.


In one of the instant red-lit links I submitted on this (not that I'm bitter), her condition degraded so quickly she couldn't travel.

Also, not defending Ireland on this, but the blame lies totally on the cowardly doctors who refused to perform the abortion. The laws were declared unconstitutional, the gov't had just been stalling in writing new ones. They had the legal right to do it, but chose not to.
 
2012-11-23 03:37:22 PM

ComicBookGuy: ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."

Strange...this article is about Indians living in Ireland. How does the United States figure?


Everything is about the United States.
 
2012-11-23 03:38:09 PM

SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.


Unfortunately the meaning of terms change and "Third World" has become synonymous with "Developing nations"
 
2012-11-23 04:09:31 PM

FarkTorrance: SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.

...and Switzerland, as a neutral country, is also a third-world nation?


Are you trolling?

Yes, Switzerland, Sweden and Finland was 3rd world. You understood that, so why did you ask?
 
2012-11-23 04:11:30 PM

Kevin72: I was a bit tough on him. But to save the life of his wife, couldn't they have done some kind of emergency trip to Scotland or England at whatever the cost? He's an engineer and she was a dentist, income-wise. Lifesaving, my son, lifesaving.


She died from infection caused by her cervix being open during the miscarriage. She probably wasn't judged to be in danger until the infection set in, after the termination was no longer necessary. We only know that the termination would be lifesaving with the benefit of hindsight, so cut the guy some slack.
 
2012-11-23 04:11:43 PM

dywed88: SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.

Unfortunately the meaning of terms change and "Third World" has become synonymous with "Developing nations"


No it hasn't.

People are morons though. But morons thankfully don't get to define a definition still used today in political science.
 
2012-11-23 04:16:49 PM

SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.


You are correct.

Re Switzerland - it was aligned in terms of economic philosophy.

HOWEVER, the original meaning has been lost. Ask someone on the street the definition of a second world country, and they will have no clue.

/subby
 
2012-11-23 04:16:50 PM

spawn73: People are morons though. But morons thankfully don't get to define a definition still used today in political science.


Actually, they do. That is how English works. Common usage has always been what defined the English language. The term may have different meanings in some circumstances, but in most usage "third world" is a synonym to the "developing world" and trying to be a pedantic ass doesn't change anything.
 
2012-11-23 04:32:08 PM

Fark It: ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."

In the U.S. there are more women having babies when they're older, and more diabetic/obese women having babies.


So your point is, "If we ignore THESE dead infants, we are not doing badly!"

We have high infant mortality and lower life expectancy in the US. Period

We have a crappy health care system, considering we spend twice as much per person as normal countries.
 
2012-11-23 04:32:12 PM

dywed88: spawn73: People are morons though. But morons thankfully don't get to define a definition still used today in political science.

Actually, they do. That is how English works. Common usage has always been what defined the English language. The term may have different meanings in some circumstances, but in most usage "third world" is a synonym to the "developing world" and trying to be a pedantic ass doesn't change anything.


^ This. The REAL meaning of English is embodied in your average Wal*Mart shopper. Go ask them what a third world county is, and what it means these days.

Hint: Most of them couldn't tell you what "political science" was if their lives depended on it AND they had a lifeline.
 
2012-11-23 04:39:34 PM

Fark It: ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."

In the U.S. there are more women having babies when they're older, and more diabetic/obese women having babies.


Low income, non-english speaking, and minorities. Afro-american women 3 times as likely to die then their white counterparts during labor. - CDC in Atlanta Georgia

CNN Health
 
2012-11-23 04:47:36 PM

spawn73: dywed88: SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.

Unfortunately the meaning of terms change and "Third World" has become synonymous with "Developing nations"

No it hasn't.

People are morons though. But morons thankfully don't get to define a definition still used today in political science.


Happens all the time, sorry about your luck. Ask any old school coder about hackers. Funniest part to me is that I'm familiar with the definitions you're using but use the more common developing nation meaning unless I'm talking to political types.

Cheers

//script-kiddies are not hackers
 
2012-11-23 04:48:50 PM

dywed88: spawn73: People are morons though. But morons thankfully don't get to define a definition still used today in political science.

Actually, they do. That is how English works. Common usage has always been what defined the English language. The term may have different meanings in some circumstances, but in most usage "third world" is a synonym to the "developing world" and trying to be a pedantic ass doesn't change anything.


Nope. It's a definition used in political science, and it is clearly defined as having a specific meaning in relation to the cold war. Common usage won't ever change /that/ definition.

The problem with the common usage, is that when it comes to it, people using it can't really define what they mean by "3rd world", beyond that it's "maybe poorer than us". Similarly calling Obama a socialist, won't ever change the definition of socialism.
 
2012-11-23 04:49:01 PM

GAT_00: make me some tea: ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."

I wonder what that rate is by U.S. state?

Link. Nearly twice as high in the District, surprisingly low in Alaska.


Maine only has the lowest rate because it doesn't really exist.
 
2012-11-23 04:50:46 PM
Meanwhile, Rick Santorum and other Catholic lawmakers rubbed one out while reading this story, breathing, "Yes. YES. Die, you whore. Oh, god, soon we'll make all hospitals work like this"
 
2012-11-23 04:52:25 PM

whither_apophis: Kevin72: liam76: Kevin72: What a chintzy moneygrubbing tight-ass cheapskate. Would it have killed his pocketbook to fly to France or Italy or Mexico or Mississippi to get a legal abortion to save the life of his wife? It's not like they don't ban pregnant women from flying to prevent abortions?

Don't know if you are trolling or skipped the article, but they weren't planning on an abortion until they went to the hospital and encountered problems.

I was a bit tough on him. But to save the life of his wife, couldn't they have done some kind of emergency trip to Scotland or England at whatever the cost? He's an engineer and she was a dentist, income-wise. Lifesaving, my son, lifesaving.

In one of the instant red-lit links I submitted on this (not that I'm bitter), her condition degraded so quickly she couldn't travel.

Also, not defending Ireland on this, but the blame lies totally on the cowardly doctors who refused to perform the abortion. The laws were declared unconstitutional, the gov't had just been stalling in writing new ones. They had the legal right to do it, but chose not to.


They performed the abortion 3 days after the request, Doesn't say whether the fetus was expired by then. Also not clear whether she died from psepsis as a result of the precedure (secondary infection) or whether complications which killed the fetus had also spread to the mother as well.

For all we know, she might have died as a result of an infection obtained during the surgical precedure or from the complications that had terminated the pregnancy and not necessarily from not getting the termination when first requested.
 
2012-11-23 04:55:00 PM
Savita, a 31-year-old dentist, had died of blood poisoning after being denied an abortion for a miscarrying fetus under Ireland's strict laws, her husband says.

WTF Ireland? You can't save it. It's already farking dead. How is this even considered an abortion at that point?
 
2012-11-23 05:02:15 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Savita, a 31-year-old dentist, had died of blood poisoning after being denied an abortion for a miscarrying fetus under Ireland's strict laws, her husband says.

WTF Ireland? You can't save it. It's already farking dead. How is this even considered an abortion at that point?


The fetus was alive when the request was made- again article was not clear if the fetus was deceased when the request was granted 3 days later. The blood poisoning that caused the woman to miscarry may have been the same that eventually killed her. Or it may have been a result of the medical precedure. Article is to inconclusive although the implication is that having the abortion on demand would have prevented the blood disease and saved the mom.
 
2012-11-23 05:08:29 PM

ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."


Estonia and Singapore don't have black people and Mexicans.

/welcome to Fark.
 
2012-11-23 05:09:17 PM

DuncanMhor: Kevin72: I was a bit tough on him. But to save the life of his wife, couldn't they have done some kind of emergency trip to Scotland or England at whatever the cost? He's an engineer and she was a dentist, income-wise. Lifesaving, my son, lifesaving.

She died from infection caused by her cervix being open during the miscarriage. She probably wasn't judged to be in danger until the infection set in, after the termination was no longer necessary. We only know that the termination would be lifesaving with the benefit of hindsight, so cut the guy some slack.


Then I was too tough. Shame and hauntings on the doctors then if they could have saved her life.
 
2012-11-23 05:11:38 PM

clowncar on fire: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Savita, a 31-year-old dentist, had died of blood poisoning after being denied an abortion for a miscarrying fetus under Ireland's strict laws, her husband says.

WTF Ireland? You can't save it. It's already farking dead. How is this even considered an abortion at that point?

The fetus was alive when the request was made- again article was not clear if the fetus was deceased when the request was granted 3 days later. The blood poisoning that caused the woman to miscarry may have been the same that eventually killed her. Or it may have been a result of the medical precedure. Article is to inconclusive although the implication is that having the abortion on demand would have prevented the blood disease and saved the mom.


The doctors waited until they could not detect a fetal heartbeat. They only then performed the removal (not an abortion, as it had already died). Thats why they didn't do anything for three days as they didn't want to be any way related to the fetal death.
 
2012-11-23 05:13:42 PM
I wish the wives and girlfriends of these government assholes who want to stick their legislation in uteri, would hold out on them.

wouldn't work in the united states, because, you know, republicans.
 
2012-11-23 05:14:12 PM
yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.
 
2012-11-23 05:16:54 PM

Hunter_Worthington: yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.


and we should ask our mothers, our wives, our sisters to be beholden to someone else's desire for control over them? That's what restrictions to reproductive care are, you know.

And not for nothing, a fetus isn't a person. a blastocyst isn't a person. a zygote is not a person. neither is an unfertilized egg, nor a sperm cell.
 
2012-11-23 05:17:10 PM

clowncar on fire: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Savita, a 31-year-old dentist, had died of blood poisoning after being denied an abortion for a miscarrying fetus under Ireland's strict laws, her husband says.

WTF Ireland? You can't save it. It's already farking dead. How is this even considered an abortion at that point?

The fetus was alive when the request was made- again article was not clear if the fetus was deceased when the request was granted 3 days later. The blood poisoning that caused the woman to miscarry may have been the same that eventually killed her. Or it may have been a result of the medical precedure. Article is to inconclusive although the implication is that having the abortion on demand would have prevented the blood disease and saved the mom.




It certainly would have prevented her from lying in the bed for 3+ days, experiencing an active labor/miscarriage.

While the article is incomplete, there is a good chance that the lack of abortion either masked symptoms of her worsening condition, prevented more aggressive treatment of the sepsis if they knew at that point or at the very least--it would have saved her the pain of both fighting sepsis and labor (for 3 days).

This case is revolting.
 
2012-11-23 05:18:33 PM

vpb: Well, when you decide to settle in a backwards country run by theocrats who think it's still the middle ages that's the risk you take.


That's all well and good until somehow roe v wade gets overturned.

...and when they came for me, there was no one left to speak up.
 
2012-11-23 05:18:43 PM

SuperT: Hunter_Worthington: yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.

and we should ask our mothers, our wives, our sisters to be beholden to someone else's desire for control over them? That's what restrictions to reproductive care are, you know.

And not for nothing, a fetus isn't a person. a blastocyst isn't a person. a zygote is not a person. neither is an unfertilized egg, nor a sperm cell.



His account creation date; 2012-10-28 17:28:40

I wouldn't waste the text.
 
2012-11-23 05:20:48 PM

spawn73: Nope. It's a definition used in political science, and it is clearly defined as having a specific meaning in relation to the cold war. Common usage won't ever change /that/ definition.


You are correct, in the field of political science and with respect to Cold War history that definition will continue to be used. Outside those fields a new definition has been added.
This is not a political science or Cold War history discussion, so it is perfectly valid to use the most common definition.
 
2012-11-23 05:23:15 PM

TheAgeOfEgos: SuperT: Hunter_Worthington: yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.

and we should ask our mothers, our wives, our sisters to be beholden to someone else's desire for control over them? That's what restrictions to reproductive care are, you know.

And not for nothing, a fetus isn't a person. a blastocyst isn't a person. a zygote is not a person. neither is an unfertilized egg, nor a sperm cell.


His account creation date; 2012-10-28 17:28:40

I wouldn't waste the text.


oh ffs. that reminds me, my ten year fark-iversary is soon. woo.
 
2012-11-23 06:09:30 PM

TheAgeOfEgos: His account creation date; 2012-10-28 17:28:40

I wouldn't waste the text.


Election troll that decided to stick around.
 
2012-11-23 06:12:16 PM

SuperT: Hunter_Worthington: yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.

and we should ask our mothers, our wives, our sisters to be beholden to someone else's desire for control over them? That's what restrictions to reproductive care are, you know.

And not for nothing, a fetus isn't a person. a blastocyst isn't a person. a zygote is not a person. neither is an unfertilized egg, nor a sperm cell.


I agree with you on the sperm and egg. I'm all in favor of birth control. But you do understand you're listing stages of human development, for the rest, right? Because I dont think a good liberal such as yourself wants to get into arbitrarily declaring what is/isn't a human.
 
2012-11-23 06:33:32 PM

TheAgeOfEgos: This casereligious law is revolting.


FTFY

There is no sense in pretending anything other than Catholicism is what actually killed this woman. If the doctors had simply followed the most basic medical procedures available to any developed nation instead of having to worry about whether they would be prosecuted for murder based on an ancient book written by a bunch of mushroom-tripping goat herders she almost certainly would have survived.

And the irony is that the pair apparently wanted a child so she would have had a reasonable chance of actually having a healthy baby in the future. But now, because a bunch of backwards rock-eaters managed to get hold of the country, we don't have a dead fetus, we have a dead family.

Religion kills. End of story.
 
2012-11-23 06:34:11 PM

Hunter_Worthington: SuperT: Hunter_Worthington: yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.

and we should ask our mothers, our wives, our sisters to be beholden to someone else's desire for control over them? That's what restrictions to reproductive care are, you know.

And not for nothing, a fetus isn't a person. a blastocyst isn't a person. a zygote is not a person. neither is an unfertilized egg, nor a sperm cell.

I agree with you on the sperm and egg. I'm all in favor of birth control. But you do understand you're listing stages of human development, for the rest, right? Because I dont think a good liberal such as yourself wants to get into arbitrarily declaring what is/isn't a human.


Why not? And what's arbitrary about the science of fetal brain development?
 
2012-11-23 07:50:50 PM

ginandbacon: Why not? And what's arbitrary about the science of fetal brain development?


I'm not a neuro-scientist, so I can't answer that question. I can tell you, form a logical standpoint, liberals shouldn't be deciding something is/isn't a human being, if they're arguing elsewhere that Human Rights are universal.
 
2012-11-23 08:10:56 PM

Hunter_Worthington: ginandbacon: Why not? And what's arbitrary about the science of fetal brain development?

I'm not a neuro-scientist, so I can't answer that question. I can tell you, form a logical standpoint, liberals shouldn't be deciding something is/isn't a human being, if they're arguing elsewhere that Human Rights are universal.


Here sweetie. Get a little science in your worldview. When you have figured out the difference between an adult woman and a collection of cells that recognizes light, get back to me.
 
2012-11-23 08:18:07 PM

ginandbacon: Here sweetie. Get a little science in your worldview. When you have figured out the difference between an adult woman and a collection of cells that recognizes light, get back to me.


one has rights, the other has tits?

Seriously, this is the problem here:

media.tumblr.com
 
2012-11-23 08:22:34 PM

ginandbacon: Hunter_Worthington: ginandbacon: Why not? And what's arbitrary about the science of fetal brain development?

I'm not a neuro-scientist, so I can't answer that question. I can tell you, form a logical standpoint, liberals shouldn't be deciding something is/isn't a human being, if they're arguing elsewhere that Human Rights are universal.

Here sweetie. Get a little science in your worldview. When you have figured out the difference between an adult woman and a collection of cells that recognizes light, get back to me.


Part of me wishes he had a daughter in that type of circumstance so he could have some informed perspective but then I think it is just generally better that he doesn't reproduce.
 
2012-11-23 08:32:13 PM

mrshowrules: ginandbacon: Hunter_Worthington: ginandbacon: Why not? And what's arbitrary about the science of fetal brain development?

I'm not a neuro-scientist, so I can't answer that question. I can tell you, form a logical standpoint, liberals shouldn't be deciding something is/isn't a human being, if they're arguing elsewhere that Human Rights are universal.

Here sweetie. Get a little science in your worldview. When you have figured out the difference between an adult woman and a collection of cells that recognizes light, get back to me.

Part of me wishes he had a daughter in that type of circumstance so he could have some informed perspective but then I think it is just generally better that he doesn't reproduce.


Agreed. Sadly.
 
2012-11-23 08:52:18 PM
What did the one troll say to the other?

ginandbacon: mrshowrules: ginandbacon:

drupal.org
Here sweetie. Get a little science in your worldview. When you have figured out the difference between an adult woman and a collection of cells that recognizes light, get back to me.

Part of me wishes he had a daughter in that type of circumstance so he could have some informed perspective but then I think it is just generally better that he doesn't reproduce.

drupal.org
Agreed. Sadly.

 
2012-11-23 08:54:34 PM

mrshowrules: ginandbacon: Hunter_Worthington: ginandbacon: Why not? And what's arbitrary about the science of fetal brain development?

I'm not a neuro-scientist, so I can't answer that question. I can tell you, form a logical standpoint, liberals shouldn't be deciding something is/isn't a human being, if they're arguing elsewhere that Human Rights are universal.

Here sweetie. Get a little science in your worldview. When you have figured out the difference between an adult woman and a collection of cells that recognizes light, get back to me.

Part of me wishes he had a daughter in that type of circumstance so he could have some informed perspective but then I think it is just generally better that he doesn't reproduce.


I don't. He might consign her to a horrible death while smugly lecturing her about libby libs and their stupid libby lib human rights. LIBBY LIBS.

Wouldn't be her fault dad is an ass.
 
2012-11-23 08:58:11 PM

Kibbler: mrshowrules: ginandbacon: Hunter_Worthington: ginandbacon: Why not? And what's arbitrary about the science of fetal brain development?

I'm not a neuro-scientist, so I can't answer that question. I can tell you, form a logical standpoint, liberals shouldn't be deciding something is/isn't a human being, if they're arguing elsewhere that Human Rights are universal.

Here sweetie. Get a little science in your worldview. When you have figured out the difference between an adult woman and a collection of cells that recognizes light, get back to me.

Part of me wishes he had a daughter in that type of circumstance so he could have some informed perspective but then I think it is just generally better that he doesn't reproduce.

I don't. He might consign her to a horrible death while smugly lecturing her about libby libs and their stupid libby lib human rights. LIBBY LIBS.

Wouldn't be her fault dad is an ass.


But it would be her fault for being a whore.

//chicks dig dicks.
 
2012-11-23 09:35:29 PM
But hey the Irish are number one in football! Amirite?!?
 
2012-11-23 10:05:13 PM

SuperT: TheAgeOfEgos: SuperT: Hunter_Worthington: yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.

and we should ask our mothers, our wives, our sisters to be beholden to someone else's desire for control over them? That's what restrictions to reproductive care are, you know.

And not for nothing, a fetus isn't a person. a blastocyst isn't a person. a zygote is not a person. neither is an unfertilized egg, nor a sperm cell.


His account creation date; 2012-10-28 17:28:40

I wouldn't waste the text.

oh ffs. that reminds me, my ten year fark-iversary is soon. woo.


I salute you, fellow 5-digit Farker.
 
2012-11-23 10:17:54 PM

Lionel Mandrake: FarkTorrance: SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.

...and Switzerland, as a neutral country, is also a third-world nation?

Yes.

People erroneously say "third world" when what they mean is "developing nation"


Those terms are also used in anthropology. It isn't erroneous, it just depends if you are referring to history/politics or level of economic and technological development.
 
2012-11-23 10:18:50 PM

spawn73:
Nope. It's a definition used in political science, and it is clearly defined as having a specific meaning in relation to the cold war. Common usage won't ever change /that/ definition.


Actually given that it's former meaning is now of nothing more than historical interest, and its vernacular meaning is universal in both use and meaning, it is arguable that the primary meaning has completely changed. When someone says that Detroit resembles a third-world shiathole there is not one person reading who is confused, or who thinks 'why indeed, Detroit does appear to be politically unaligned vis-a-vis the former power blocs of the post-war period'.

You lose, you get nothing, good day to you sir.
 
2012-11-23 10:54:48 PM

Hunter_Worthington: Kibbler: mrshowrules: ginandbacon: Hunter_Worthington: ginandbacon: Why not? And what's arbitrary about the science of fetal brain development?

I'm not a neuro-scientist, so I can't answer that question. I can tell you, form a logical standpoint, liberals shouldn't be deciding something is/isn't a human being, if they're arguing elsewhere that Human Rights are universal.

Here sweetie. Get a little science in your worldview. When you have figured out the difference between an adult woman and a collection of cells that recognizes light, get back to me.

Part of me wishes he had a daughter in that type of circumstance so he could have some informed perspective but then I think it is just generally better that he doesn't reproduce.

I don't. He might consign her to a horrible death while smugly lecturing her about libby libs and their stupid libby lib human rights. LIBBY LIBS.

Wouldn't be her fault dad is an ass.

But it would be her fault for being a whore.

//chicks dig dicks.


0/10- Now you're just sounding desperate.
 
2012-11-23 11:45:50 PM

Hunter_Worthington: yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.


If your daughter was dying and could be saved by an abortion, you would deny her one?
 
2012-11-24 12:04:07 AM

Soymilk: Hunter_Worthington: yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.

If your daughter was dying and could be saved by an abortion, you would deny her one?


that's an interesting question. Really it depends on which choice would be utility maximizing. Considering that my daughter's life at that point would be a sunk cost, and therefore irrelevant to the decision making process, deciding which one lives comes down to which provides me with higher expected discounted net present value of utility.

that's how I would make the choice anyways. I mean, ignoring that your over-wrought emotional hypothetical involves killing one person for another.

which choice would you make? and, realize, if you say "flush away", you're implicitly performing the same process I laid out above.

//Sophie's Choice: only difficult if you're a woman.
 
2012-11-24 12:32:14 AM
Winners dont quote trolls -William S. Sessions, Director FBI
 
2012-11-24 01:20:54 AM

Britney Spear's Speculum: Winners dont quote trolls -William S. Sessions, Director FBI


I think you will find that intelligent people ignore not only trolls but posts containing their names.
 
2012-11-24 03:11:47 AM

mrshowrules: Irish women should have a sex strike until Irish society agrees that women should have control of their own reproductive rights.


Lysistrata would be proud. Frankly, they should do that more often; the lure of the vagina is strong, so they should use this power for good.

/just finished work, brain still fried
 
2012-11-24 04:31:40 AM

dywed88: SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.

Unfortunately the meaning of terms change and "Third World" has become synonymous with "Developing nations"


No! Things never change, especially word and phrase meanings, and never due to popularity! This begs a question!
 
2012-11-24 09:33:05 AM
Liberals: We should always respect the democratic choices of other nations except when we disagree with those choices.
 
2012-11-24 10:16:53 AM

beta_plus: Liberals: We should always respect the democratic choices of other nations except when we disagree with those choices.


BOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGG
 
2012-11-24 10:21:58 AM

Hunter_Worthington: Soymilk: Hunter_Worthington: yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.

If your daughter was dying and could be saved by an abortion, you would deny her one?

that's an interesting question. Really it depends on which choice would be utility maximizing. Considering that my daughter's life at that point would be a sunk cost, and therefore irrelevant to the decision making process, deciding which one lives comes down to which provides me with higher expected discounted net present value of utility.

that's how I would make the choice anyways. I mean, ignoring that your over-wrought emotional hypothetical involves killing one person for another.

which choice would you make? and, realize, if you say "flush away", you're implicitly performing the same process I laid out above.

//Sophie's Choice: only difficult if you're a woman.


Thanksgiving is over. You stop raping your father and stabbing your mother.
 
2012-11-24 10:24:43 AM

Lollipop165: Lionel Mandrake: FarkTorrance: SomeAmerican: Third world doesn't mean what subby thinks it means. It's a cold war term.

First world: the US and its allies.
Second world: the Soviet Union, China, and their allies.
Third world: unaligned states.

So Ireland is 1st world.

...and Switzerland, as a neutral country, is also a third-world nation?

Yes.

People erroneously say "third world" when what they mean is "developing nation"

Those terms are also used in anthropology. It isn't erroneous, it just depends if you are referring to history/politics or level of economic and technological development.


Anthropologists also used the word mongoloid, but they weren't talking about you.
 
2012-11-24 10:45:03 AM

Hunter_Worthington: ginandbacon: Here sweetie. Get a little science in your worldview. When you have figured out the difference between an adult woman and a collection of cells that recognizes light, get back to me.

one has rights, the other has tits?

Seriously, this is the problem here:

[media.tumblr.com image 235x206]



caffeinatedthoughts.com

When you look at the picture above, do you see a chicken and an egg, or do you see two chickens?
=Smidge=
 
2012-11-24 11:33:17 AM

herrDrFarkenstein: Anthropologists also used the word mongoloid, but they weren't talking about you.


Okay, this made me laugh.

/anthro major
 
2012-11-24 05:00:18 PM

Britney Spear's Speculum: Winners dont quote trolls -William S. Sessions, Director FBI


"Does this dress make me look fat?"

--J. Edgar Hoover, Director FBI
 
2012-11-24 08:52:49 PM
DERP KILLS.

And the number one source of derp is right wing churches.
 
2012-11-24 11:02:11 PM

Hunter_Worthington: Soymilk: Hunter_Worthington: yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.

If your daughter was dying and could be saved by an abortion, you would deny her one?

that's an interesting question. Really it depends on which choice would be utility maximizing. Considering that my daughter's life at that point would be a sunk cost, and therefore irrelevant to the decision making process, deciding which one lives comes down to which provides me with higher expected discounted net present value of utility.

that's how I would make the choice anyways. I mean, ignoring that your over-wrought emotional hypothetical involves killing one person for another.

which choice would you make? and, realize, if you say "flush away", you're implicitly performing the same process I laid out above.

//Sophie's Choice: only difficult if you're a woman.


In this situation, we are not comparing one life against another. We are comparing one death (that of the unborn baby) against two deaths, that of the mother plus the unborn baby, since the unborn baby will die when his mother does.

My daughter's life is an emotional decision for me. If your daughter's life is nothing but a logical argument to you then I pity your children.
 
2012-11-24 11:09:28 PM

Soymilk: Hunter_Worthington: Soymilk: Hunter_Worthington: yeah, nothing says "civilized nation" like giving women unilateral power over the life and death of another human being.

If your daughter was dying and could be saved by an abortion, you would deny her one?

that's an interesting question. Really it depends on which choice would be utility maximizing. Considering that my daughter's life at that point would be a sunk cost, and therefore irrelevant to the decision making process, deciding which one lives comes down to which provides me with higher expected discounted net present value of utility.

that's how I would make the choice anyways. I mean, ignoring that your over-wrought emotional hypothetical involves killing one person for another.

which choice would you make? and, realize, if you say "flush away", you're implicitly performing the same process I laid out above.

//Sophie's Choice: only difficult if you're a woman.

In this situation, we are not comparing one life against another. We are comparing one death (that of the unborn baby) against two deaths, that of the mother plus the unborn baby, since the unborn baby will die when his mother does.

My daughter's life is an emotional decision for me. If your daughter's life is nothing but a logical argument to you then I pity your children.


If it makes you feel better, I'm pretty sure he outed himself as a troll in another thread.

/I know, Poe's law, yadda yadda yadda.
 
2012-11-25 01:35:34 PM

jaytkay: Fark It: ginandbacon: I don't think we in this country should be gloating: "In 2010, countries with highest maternal mortality were: Chad (1,100), Somalia (1,000), Central African Republic, (890), Sierra Leone (890) and Burundi (800).[11]
Lowest rates included Estonia at 2 per 100,000 and Singapore at 3 per 100,000. In the United States, the maternal death rate was 21 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births in 2010."

In the U.S. there are more women having babies when they're older, and more diabetic/obese women having babies.

So your point is, "If we ignore THESE dead infants, we are not doing badly!"

We have high infant mortality and lower life expectancy in the US. Period

We have a crappy health care system, considering we spend twice as much per person as normal countries.


But at LEAST it's not that hippie-commie-islamofascist-SOCIALISM!

/must be why it works better almost half the time!
 
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