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(CNN)   Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-eal American) to Grover Norquist: You've had your 20-year run, asshat, now go the fark away   (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 181
    More: Hero, United States public debt, Saxby Chambliss, Chambliss, Grover Norquist, Americans for Tax Reform  
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7710 clicks; posted to Politics » on 23 Nov 2012 at 6:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-23 12:02:23 PM  
i301.photobucket.com

They had their chance. His name was Huntsman. They blew it.
 
2012-11-23 12:05:00 PM  

Tigger: globalwarmingpraiser: mrshowrules: nobodyUwannaknow: mrshowrules: Serious Black: Well, that depends. I mean, I've been a pretty big supporter of switching to a universal transaction tax that would almost certainly involve a major income tax rate cut. Would that be really considered a tax cut if you made it revenue neutral? Personally, I wouldn't care what the answer is to pedantic asswipes like Mr. Norquist, but my hunch is that most people would see a marginal cut from 15% to 0.5% as a big tax cut.

A Federal sales tax is exactly what is called for. Canada restored it's Triple-A credit rating very fast with a 7% Goods and Services tax. Now dropped to 5%. A huge money maker and what could be fairer than taxing people on what they consume.

You should only cut taxes when you are on track to balancing budgets and even then I would give more consideration to education and infrastructure spending. A true Fiscal conservative should focus on sustainability. Short term pain and long term growth (competitiveness). That should be the foiacus of the Conservative party IMHO.

"What could be fairer than taxing people on what they consume? "

Poor people consume every dime they get. Rich people bank offshore after consuming only essential and luxury items (caviar, leer jets)

I should mention that Canada has sales tax credit for the poor and even the lower middle-class. More than a credit actually, it is a quarterly cheque/payment to offset to people who like you say, spend to survive.

Sounds like the Fair Tax which is univerally despised by Fark. economists.


I figured the people that would despise the FAir Tax the most as written would be lobbyists. I am really up for any new ideas though. I try to be open minded and our current system seems to be filled with fail.
 
2012-11-23 12:09:17 PM  

MorrisBird: You people are weird. I don't get the Grover fanboys. I always preferred Oscar the Grouch.


Grover sounds like Yoda.

/Also prefers Oscar.
//It's the green olives.
 
2012-11-23 12:12:33 PM  
Raharu:

Cut it out, jackass.
 
2012-11-23 12:19:51 PM  

mrshowrules: Serious Black: Well, that depends. I mean, I've been a pretty big supporter of switching to a universal transaction tax that would almost certainly involve a major income tax rate cut. Would that be really considered a tax cut if you made it revenue neutral? Personally, I wouldn't care what the answer is to pedantic asswipes like Mr. Norquist, but my hunch is that most people would see a marginal cut from 15% to 0.5% as a big tax cut.

A Federal sales tax is exactly what is called for. Canada restored it's Triple-A credit rating very fast with a 7% Goods and Services tax. Now dropped to 5%. A huge money maker and what could be fairer than taxing people on what they consume.

You should only cut taxes when you are on track to balancing budgets and even then I would give more consideration to education and infrastructure spending. A true Fiscal conservative should focus on sustainability. Short term pain and long term growth (competitiveness). That should be the focus of the Conservative party IMHO.


Short term pain? You're prescribing an aggressively regressive national sales tax for a country which, unlike Canada, has weak unions, banana-republic income and wealth disparity, no universal health care, an eroding social safety net, and an inverse yield curve on tax rates for the ultra-wealthy?

Why do you hate us so much?

/It's not my fault my sister's in-laws have 50 acres of sugar maples.
 
2012-11-23 12:24:56 PM  

Serious Black: mrshowrules: Serious Black: mrshowrules: Serious Black: I wasn't talking about a sales tax necessarily. I was talking about a tax that applies to wages, sales, gifts, estate transfers, stock purchases, exchanges of currency, etc. Basically, anything that involves moving money from one account to another would be taxed under this system. The tax base on such a tax is astronomically huge, which is how you get away with a single tax rate of 0.5%.

Makes sense. Also, you should just cancel the Capital Gains deduction/loophole on any income above $250K.

Well, the idea would be if you implemented that tax that you would basically wipe out the rest of the tax code, so there wouldn't be any loopholes. The only thing the guy that initially designed this could think of was people who stuck to all cash to avoid the automated tax, and that could be solved pretty well with a double or triple transaction tax when you took money out of a bank or deposited it back into a bank.

I honestly don't know enough about his subject to know if this could work. In any case, it sounds like something that would have to be implemented incrementally.

I think it could be implemented pretty easily. I mean, how do you think credit cards, debit cards, bank transfers, etc. work already? It's on a computer system. All you'd need to do is add a program that takes X% of the amount transferred every single time. You'd probably have to implement it as X/2% on each end to handle the cases where money gets sent overseas or comes back from overseas, but that's hardly a major problem. I think you'd want to test it out with a small set of taxes getting replaced at first, but if that test case worked, you could use it to replace all state and local taxes eventually.

globalwarmingpraiser: You know, I kind of like this idea. How would it effect debit cards though? It would lead to people carrying cash more to avoid the deposit, withdrawal, and point of service tax. As well as the deposit tax that would be buil ...


You said a rate of 7% on every transaction. You deposit the money, 7%, You perform a debit card transaction,7% for withdrawal abd 7% for purchase, You add in the 7% the corporation will tack on for the company to cover their tax and you will have a total of 28% increase. Also are you calculating this as inclusive or exclusive because the Fair Tax and the Income tax are setup as inclusive taxes with sets them at a lower quotable rate than an exclusive rate, which is how Sales taxes are normally calculated'.
 
2012-11-23 12:26:35 PM  

Mercutio74: Due to the US political systems the people that pay for campaigns are the ones with authority. Since Grover's pledge is extortionary and far more effective than if he, himself, were a representative or even a senator.


THIS. Recently a Farker astutely pointed out that the Republican Party doesn't have any leaders, they have owners.

In the Republican Party there are the politicians and there are the money men. Money men like Norquist run the show. They can replace the politicians whenever they don't do as they are told. The politicians themselves have little to no recourse if they don't like the money men.

Chambliss can do as he is ordered to do by Norquist or he can be replaced with a more obedient politician.
 
2012-11-23 12:37:50 PM  

Wasteland: Shirley Ujest: What kind of name is " Saxby"?


Heh. Turns out it's a Scandinavian name. Means "Saxon farm."


Hmm, there are 26 people in Sweden named Saxby. And it translates to: "Scissor Village".
 
2012-11-23 12:42:35 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: Serious Black: mrshowrules: Serious Black: mrshowrules: Serious Black: I wasn't talking about a sales tax necessarily. I was talking about a tax that applies to wages, sales, gifts, estate transfers, stock purchases, exchanges of currency, etc. Basically, anything that involves moving money from one account to another would be taxed under this system. The tax base on such a tax is astronomically huge, which is how you get away with a single tax rate of 0.5%.

Makes sense. Also, you should just cancel the Capital Gains deduction/loophole on any income above $250K.

Well, the idea would be if you implemented that tax that you would basically wipe out the rest of the tax code, so there wouldn't be any loopholes. The only thing the guy that initially designed this could think of was people who stuck to all cash to avoid the automated tax, and that could be solved pretty well with a double or triple transaction tax when you took money out of a bank or deposited it back into a bank.

I honestly don't know enough about his subject to know if this could work. In any case, it sounds like something that would have to be implemented incrementally.

I think it could be implemented pretty easily. I mean, how do you think credit cards, debit cards, bank transfers, etc. work already? It's on a computer system. All you'd need to do is add a program that takes X% of the amount transferred every single time. You'd probably have to implement it as X/2% on each end to handle the cases where money gets sent overseas or comes back from overseas, but that's hardly a major problem. I think you'd want to test it out with a small set of taxes getting replaced at first, but if that test case worked, you could use it to replace all state and local taxes eventually.

globalwarmingpraiser: You know, I kind of like this idea. How would it effect debit cards though? It would lead to people carrying cash more to avoid the deposit, withdrawal, and point of service tax. As well as the deposit tax tha ...


I didn't say 7%. That was mrshowrules. I said 0.5%. It's hard to keep track with all the quote trains, but I'm positive I said 0.5%.

The tax rate I mentioned is an inclusive rate, but the difference between the inclusive and exclusive rates at this small level is almost completely negigible. The exclusive rate would be approximately 0.5025%, or 1/40000th larger than the inclusive rate. In comparison, the exclusive rate of the FairTax is almost a third larger than the inclusive rate.
 
2012-11-23 12:47:29 PM  

alienated: MorrisBird: You people are weird. I don't get the Grover fanboys. I always preferred Oscar the Grouch.

Lol. I hate both Chambliss and Norquist. I was more of a Count person myself anyhow.ah ah ah


I dislike Norquist a bit more. Also, I'm an Ernie girl. "Rubber Duckie you're the one, you make bath time lots of fun, Rubber Duckie I'm awfully fond of you ..."
 
2012-11-23 12:52:35 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: mrshowrules: Serious Black: Well, that depends. I mean, I've been a pretty big supporter of switching to a universal transaction tax that would almost certainly involve a major income tax rate cut. Would that be really considered a tax cut if you made it revenue neutral? Personally, I wouldn't care what the answer is to pedantic asswipes like Mr. Norquist, but my hunch is that most people would see a marginal cut from 15% to 0.5% as a big tax cut.

A Federal sales tax is exactly what is called for. Canada restored it's Triple-A credit rating very fast with a 7% Goods and Services tax. Now dropped to 5%. A huge money maker and what could be fairer than taxing people on what they consume.

You should only cut taxes when you are on track to balancing budgets and even then I would give more consideration to education and infrastructure spending. A true Fiscal conservative should focus on sustainability. Short term pain and long term growth (competitiveness). That should be the focus of the Conservative party IMHO.

Short term pain? You're prescribing an aggressively regressive national sales tax for a country which, unlike Canada, has weak unions, banana-republic income and wealth disparity, no universal health care, an eroding social safety net, and an inverse yield curve on tax rates for the ultra-wealthy?

Why do you hate us so much?

/It's not my fault my sister's in-laws have 50 acres of sugar maples.


I didn't explain it properly. I meant "tax" pain. Not austerity on those already suffering. I mean windfall profit tax increases on the rich to fund infrastructure and education spending. Let the rich profit from a rich country but let them invest in it first. I don't have a problem with Conservatives being advocates of the rich, I just wish they were thinking further ahead.
 
2012-11-23 12:55:18 PM  

Serious Black: globalwarmingpraiser: Serious Black: mrshowrules: Serious Black: mrshowrules: Serious Black: I wasn't talking about a sales tax necessarily. I was talking about a tax that applies to wages, sales, gifts, estate transfers, stock purchases, exchanges of currency, etc. Basically, anything that involves moving money from one account to another would be taxed under this system. The tax base on such a tax is astronomically huge, which is how you get away with a single tax rate of 0.5%.

Makes sense. Also, you should just cancel the Capital Gains deduction/loophole on any income above $250K.

Well, the idea would be if you implemented that tax that you would basically wipe out the rest of the tax code, so there wouldn't be any loopholes. The only thing the guy that initially designed this could think of was people who stuck to all cash to avoid the automated tax, and that could be solved pretty well with a double or triple transaction tax when you took money out of a bank or deposited it back into a bank.

I honestly don't know enough about his subject to know if this could work. In any case, it sounds like something that would have to be implemented incrementally.

I think it could be implemented pretty easily. I mean, how do you think credit cards, debit cards, bank transfers, etc. work already? It's on a computer system. All you'd need to do is add a program that takes X% of the amount transferred every single time. You'd probably have to implement it as X/2% on each end to handle the cases where money gets sent overseas or comes back from overseas, but that's hardly a major problem. I think you'd want to test it out with a small set of taxes getting replaced at first, but if that test case worked, you could use it to replace all state and local taxes eventually.

globalwarmingpraiser: You know, I kind of like this idea. How would it effect debit cards though? It would lead to people carrying cash more to avoid the deposit, withdrawal, and point of service tax. As well ...


That is good to know. Done right anything would work better. Our current system seems designed to keep lobbyists working, not fund the government. I just want a tax system designed for that. It should have as little impact as possible and not tryto engineer behavior. It should generate revenue that is neccessary for the government. Also we should make some major government cuts and start in foreign military operations and bases. The navy is the only place that should have overseas operations when we are not involved in an active declared war. I know legally an AUMF is the same, but WAR has a psychological impact that makes people think and sacrifice more.
 
2012-11-23 01:07:47 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: That is good to know. Done right anything would work better. Our current system seems designed to keep lobbyists working, not fund the government. I just want a tax system designed for that. It should have as little impact as possible and not tryto engineer behavior. It should generate revenue that is neccessary for the government.


Well, that's basically all this tax would do. Definitely take a look at the paper I posted earlier in the thread.
 
2012-11-23 01:29:16 PM  
Or, you know, we could just take the caps off Social Security and Medicare taxes and tax capital gains as ordinary income.*
And remove all tax-advantaged deductions for corporations that have their manufacturing plants overseas, and cut out all deductions from artificially-inflated transfer costs in tax shelters.
Include a 200% tax on all executive compensation packages over 54 times the lowest compensation for employees/'contractors'/subcontractors on outsourced functions. (I call it the "Want to make more? Make everybody better off tax, you sociopaths.")

*Unless you can point to real, living-wage American jobs created by a specific "investment".
 
2012-11-23 01:29:16 PM  

Serious Black: globalwarmingpraiser: That is good to know. Done right anything would work better. Our current system seems designed to keep lobbyists working, not fund the government. I just want a tax system designed for that. It should have as little impact as possible and not tryto engineer behavior. It should generate revenue that is neccessary for the government.

Well, that's basically all this tax would do. Definitely take a look at the paper I posted earlier in the thread.


I plan on it. Like I said, I am looking for something that works better. It is why I kind of like the Fair Tax. It also completely detaxes the Poor. But really it is a search.
 
2012-11-23 01:48:37 PM  

Bungles: These pledges happen from time to time in the UK... but always on the understanding that it's for the life of the current Parliament (ie 3 to 5 years),

Because... you know... Shiat changes.


Ah, but, you see, this tax pledge came to Grover Norquist in a vision when he was a twelve-year-old. We have a lot of people who will follow a vision off a cliff.
 
2012-11-23 02:01:31 PM  
I'm not a Norquist fan, but using the hero tag for someone who questioned the patriotism of a guy who got three limbs blown off in Vietnam is a waste.
 
2012-11-23 02:18:38 PM  

globalwarmingpraiser: I plan on it. Like I said, I am looking for something that works better. It is why I kind of like the Fair Tax. It also completely detaxes the Poor. But really it is a search.


Apart from the tax we'll all pay on everything. So, for example, a mortgage for $150,000 will cost $195,000. And then we'll be paying the 30% on the interest too.

You'll notice I said 30% instead of 23%. That's because the 'Fair' Tax is stated as being 23% of the post-tax price.

So if something cost $100 after the 'Fair Tax' was added, that's because it was $77 before the tax, then $23 on for the tax...

upload.wikimedia.org

...which, as a sales tax (because it's a tax on things you buy) makes it close enough to 30% to use that percentage.

When an idea has to hide how much it would actually cost people in weasel math, I have a problem with it.
 
2012-11-23 02:19:00 PM  

mksmith: I don't what he might have done on any specific day, a loathsome creep like Chambliss should NEVER be given the "Hero" tag. Not Ever. Period.


It just goes to show how utterly loathsome today's GOP is when it can make CHAMBLISS look good in comparison.

/we are through the looking-glass, people
 
2012-11-23 04:06:57 PM  
He'll be primaried out just like Dick Lugar in Indiana, and then the Tea Party primary winner will lose to a Democrat. Win-Win!! Kill to a-hole GOP candidates in one election. How cool is that.

/Thanks Saxby for sticking your neck out.
 
2012-11-23 04:09:48 PM  

SevenizGud: cut spending maybe? just a thought


Has been done. To the bone.

/Well, except in the Department of Defense.
//Should slice up the Defense budget like a roast turkey on Thanksgiving
 
2012-11-23 04:13:02 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: The two-term senator from Georgia added he's "willing to do the right thing and let the political consequences take care of themselves."

And this is why the Hero tag was misused. Either raising taxes didn't become "the right thing" until the election revealed a shift in public sentiment to this scumbag or he's admitting that the pledge has always been about political posturing to protect the rich.


Yeah, this. Why wasn't it the right thing to do on day one, you Grovercock sucking politiwhore.
 
2012-11-23 04:16:46 PM  

Kibbler: Suddenly Chambliss is being presented, by both the media and the far right, as moderate. That fark was goosestepping with wild abandon back in the Drydrunk Hillbilly Murder Party days.

Still, if it's a choice between him and some teabagger zealot in 2014, I'd prefer him. He clearly will adapt somewhat, based on prevailing political headwinds.

But if Romney had won, I'm sure he'd be fapping to an Iran Murder Party


Are you kidding? If there's a primary between him and some Teabagging nut case, we should do all we can to get the nuttiest nutbag to run and have that person win the primary. Look what happened to Akin in Missouri and Mourdock in Indiana (and McMahon in NH/CT/VE/wherever). That was just beautiful.
 
2012-11-23 04:33:01 PM  

Jjaro: Dunnski: randomjsa: Now we just need GOP leadership to give him a severe talking to and threaten him.

You know, the way the Obama administration does to any Democrat going against the party line on anything at any time.

Citation needed. Actually, several needed, since it happens every time.

I can provide one off the top of my head - when they reigned in Corey Booker for having the audacity to suggest that maybe Bain Capital isnt evil.


Only to realize that they were right and Corey was wrong. Bain is evil.

/"rein" is correct
//"reign" is incorrect
 
2012-11-23 05:20:40 PM  
Good for Chambliss. It takes real courage to stand up to bullies like him.
 
2012-11-23 07:13:31 PM  
FLIP FLOPPER!
 
2012-11-23 08:06:10 PM  

Kibbler: Suddenly Chambliss is being presented, by both the media and the far right, as moderate. That fark was goosestepping with wild abandon back in the Drydrunk Hillbilly Murder Party days.

Still, if it's a choice between him and some teabagger zealot in 2014, I'd prefer him. He clearly will adapt somewhat, based on prevailing political headwinds.

But if Romney had won, I'm sure he'd be fapping to an Iran Murder Party


If Karen Handel tries to primary him, I will have to vote for Saxby. Witch made me vote for Nathan Deal, too. How does Georgia keep growing such slime mold?
 
2012-11-23 08:17:05 PM  

zenobia: Kibbler: Suddenly Chambliss is being presented, by both the media and the far right, as moderate. That fark was goosestepping with wild abandon back in the Drydrunk Hillbilly Murder Party days.

Still, if it's a choice between him and some teabagger zealot in 2014, I'd prefer him. He clearly will adapt somewhat, based on prevailing political headwinds.

But if Romney had won, I'm sure he'd be fapping to an Iran Murder Party

If Karen Handel tries to primary him, I will have to vote for Saxby. Witch made me vote for Nathan Deal, too. How does Georgia keep growing such slime mold?


If Tom Price were to decide to leave the House for the Senate, I would have to vote for Saxby. Tom Price makes me shudder.
 
2012-11-23 09:52:24 PM  

somedude210: Shadowknight: Shirley Ujest: What kind of name is " Saxby"?

In my head, it always calls forth an image of a southern dandy. Like he should be a minor character in "Gone with the Wind."

Why Mister Grover, I know nothin' bout birthin' no debt reduction


Inherit the wind?
 
2012-11-24 01:25:35 AM  

randomjsa: Now we just need GOP leadership to give him a severe talking to and threaten him.

You know, the way the Obama administration does to any DemocratRush Limbaugh does to any Republican going against the party line on anything at any time.


Fixed.
 
2012-11-24 11:11:34 PM  

mksmith: I don't what he might have done on any specific day, a loathsome creep like Chambliss should NEVER be given the "Hero" tag. Not Ever. Period.


Agreed. Congress is full of loonies, liars and scumbags, but Chambliss is the lowest of the low.

His ad against wounded veteran (and actual hero) Senator Cleland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKFYpd0q9nE
 
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