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(WebMD)   Can ADHD drugs help keep people law-abiding? Remember, citizen, a gram is better than a damn   (webmd.com) divider line 44
    More: Scary, ADHD, NYU Langone Medical Center, hyperactivity, adolescent psychiatry, Modern Swedish  
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1663 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Nov 2012 at 1:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



44 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-11-22 12:23:02 PM  
Thatbcan in no way go wrong.


Make sure you use a drug called Pax.
 
2012-11-22 01:24:30 PM  
All this study says is that many crimes are impulsive.

And I bet crazy people act less crazy when they take their crazy medicine.
 
2012-11-22 01:28:31 PM  
''Hug me till you drug me, honey;
Kiss me till I'm in a coma;
Hug me, honey, snuggly bunny;
Love's as good as soma."
 
2012-11-22 01:36:57 PM  
If you need medication to not commit crimes then your medication should be part of the parole conditions for your first court hearing. If you then don`t take your medication you suffer the full penalties for any previous crimes if you had a suspended sentence or similar. if you take your medication then you should suffer full penalties for any crimes you commit.

No excuses.

/I don`t have tourettes, I just think you are a coont
 
2012-11-22 01:37:39 PM  
Given that most ADHD drugs are a derivative of methamphetamine (or just meth), and one of my friends was beaten and smothered to death by a guy in the middle of a 6-hour meth bender this summer, I'd say that's probably the worst idea ever by a very, very wide margin.
 
2012-11-22 01:53:25 PM  

Marine1: Given that most ADHD drugs are a derivative of methamphetamine (or just meth), and one of my friends was beaten and smothered to death by a guy in the middle of a 6-hour meth bender this summer, I'd say that's probably the worst idea ever by a very, very wide margin.


Look man, they give eight year olds speed so they can "focus on their school work". This is the world you live in.
 
2012-11-22 01:53:36 PM  

dready zim: If you need medication to not commit crimes then your medication should be part of the parole conditions for your first court hearing. If you then don`t take your medication you suffer the full penalties for any previous crimes if you had a suspended sentence or similar. if you take your medication then you should suffer full penalties for any crimes you commit.

No excuses.

/I don`t have tourettes, I just think you are a coont


Ah what a brave new thread with such people in it.
 
2012-11-22 02:14:05 PM  

unicron702: dready zim: If you need medication to not commit crimes then your medication should be part of the parole conditions for your first court hearing. If you then don`t take your medication you suffer the full penalties for any previous crimes if you had a suspended sentence or similar. if you take your medication then you should suffer full penalties for any crimes you commit.

No excuses.

/I don`t have tourettes, I just think you are a coont

Ah what a brave new thread with such people in it.


It`s easy to be brave behind a castle wall or one made from dismissal.

Got a better idea?
 
2012-11-22 02:18:28 PM  

knowless: Marine1: Given that most ADHD drugs are a derivative of methamphetamine (or just meth), and one of my friends was beaten and smothered to death by a guy in the middle of a 6-hour meth bender this summer, I'd say that's probably the worst idea ever by a very, very wide margin.

Look man, they give eight year olds speed so they can "focus on their school work". This is the world you live in.


They do so under supervision of a doctor. I mean, I have ADHD, and I've been on this stuff since... eh... 1999. Indeed, I was put on it when I was eight, and it does actually work. I get that it can help people; I'm one of them. On the other hand, use of these drugs is really not something you want to do willy-nilly. It requires a lot of trust from doctor to patient that the patient won't just pass the stuff along for a buck every once in a while or won't stockpile it to have a meth day when they feel like it. In other words, the patient has to want to take it, and see it as a drug for treatment. Not very many people see it that way, especially not adults. Kids are a bit of a different story.
 
2012-11-22 02:23:23 PM  
Here's the problem with ADD medications: EVERYONE improves when they take the drugs.

To deal with ADD you can't simply rely on the drugs, you have to include dietary changes, exercise, cognitive behavioral therapy, and organizational skills developed for ADD.

Hubby's family only relied on drugs and it still didn't get rid of all the issues with ADD. They went from F's and D's to C's and B's but were still disorganized messes, etc.

The problem is with modern life, when I was growing up kids in elementary school sucked down on Coke instead of water. Maybe all that caffeine and sugar is making Timmy hyper? NOPE ADD!
 
2012-11-22 02:32:57 PM  
What, no mention of Soma?
 
2012-11-22 02:52:34 PM  
They've swung back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that.
 
2012-11-22 02:54:11 PM  
And that's the end of the whole mess...
 
2012-11-22 03:01:58 PM  

knowless: Marine1: Given that most ADHD drugs are a derivative of methamphetamine (or just meth), and one of my friends was beaten and smothered to death by a guy in the middle of a 6-hour meth bender this summer, I'd say that's probably the worst idea ever by a very, very wide margin.

Look man, they give eight year olds speed so they can "focus on their school work". This is the world you live in.


Because the kids who really do need it calm down when given uppers. They are mutant freaks. Without the speed, truly ADHD kids act like they actually just ate a bag of Mars bars stuffed with meth.
 
2012-11-22 03:11:46 PM  

shortymac: Here's the problem with ADD medications: EVERYONE improves when they take the drugs.

To deal with ADD you can't simply rely on the drugs, you have to include dietary changes, exercise, cognitive behavioral therapy, and organizational skills developed for ADD.

Hubby's family only relied on drugs and it still didn't get rid of all the issues with ADD. They went from F's and D's to C's and B's but were still disorganized messes, etc.

The problem is with modern life, when I was growing up kids in elementary school sucked down on Coke instead of water. Maybe all that caffeine and sugar is making Timmy hyper? NOPE ADD!


Ummm, you do know that caffeine is a stimulant and thus helps people with ADHD, right? One of our doctor's recommendations for our son is to give him some tea or coke late in the day when his medication is wearing off. It works.
 
2012-11-22 03:16:29 PM  
I'll leave this here for ya

What is Parepin?
 
2012-11-22 03:18:47 PM  

Glockenspiel Hero: shortymac: Here's the problem with ADD medications: EVERYONE improves when they take the drugs.

To deal with ADD you can't simply rely on the drugs, you have to include dietary changes, exercise, cognitive behavioral therapy, and organizational skills developed for ADD.

Hubby's family only relied on drugs and it still didn't get rid of all the issues with ADD. They went from F's and D's to C's and B's but were still disorganized messes, etc.

The problem is with modern life, when I was growing up kids in elementary school sucked down on Coke instead of water. Maybe all that caffeine and sugar is making Timmy hyper? NOPE ADD!

Ummm, you do know that caffeine is a stimulant and thus helps people with ADHD, right? One of our doctor's recommendations for our son is to give him some tea or coke late in the day when his medication is wearing off. It works.


I know, it's why my husband drinks so much of it. I'm trying to get him to switch from Coke to coffee or tea due to the sugar and salt content of soda, but to no avail.

Just to be clear, I'm talking a normal kid getting misdiagnosed because of the piss-poor American diet of caffeine, sugar, dyes, allergies, and other junk and quick fix foods. There is hardly any examination of a kid's diet before they put him on a drug like Ritalin or Adderall.

If a healthier diet and exercise alone cures the kid, the kid most likely did not have ADD to begin with.
 
2012-11-22 03:22:51 PM  
I want to address bigger claims in here but bleh too much work. Sugar doesn't objectively make kids hyperactive. Caffeine can but not sugar, worth noting
 
2012-11-22 03:24:32 PM  
Far enough left you go right, speed a mind up enough and it appears to slow down, focus on details alleviates search for meaning in waking world through study.
 
2012-11-22 03:28:26 PM  
encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2012-11-22 03:34:45 PM  

JamisonJamieJames: I want to address bigger claims in here but bleh too much work. Sugar doesn't objectively make kids hyperactive. Caffeine can but not sugar, worth noting


Refined Sugar is sedentary, reliance is dependency. No point arguing indeed. The energy quickly depletes itself, and as more is attempted to be consumed, the iori forces itself into a harmful redundancy.
 
2012-11-22 03:35:20 PM  
Have at it.
 
2012-11-22 04:29:29 PM  
Prison Chaplain: Choice! The boy has not a real choice, has he? Self-interest, the fear of physical pain drove him to that grotesque act of self-abasement. The insincerity was clear to be seen. He ceases to be a wrongdoer. He ceases also to be a creature capable of moral choice.

Minister: Padre, there are subtleties! We are not concerned with motives, with the higher ethics. We are concerned only with cutting down crime and with relieving the ghastly congestion in our prisons. He will be your true Christian, ready to turn the other cheek, ready to be crucified rather than crucify, sick to the heart at the thought of killing a fly. Reclamation! Joy before the angels of God! The point is that it works.
 
2012-11-22 04:29:36 PM  
There's no such thing as ADD/ADHD.
 
2012-11-22 04:56:42 PM  

the_rhino: There's no such thing as ADD/ADHD.


1/10

(the 1 is because I actually responded)
 
2012-11-22 05:14:52 PM  

shortymac: Here's the problem with ADD medications: EVERYONE improves when they take the drugs.

To deal with ADD you can't simply rely on the drugs, you have to include dietary changes, exercise, cognitive behavioral therapy, and organizational skills developed for ADD.

Hubby's family only relied on drugs and it still didn't get rid of all the issues with ADD. They went from F's and D's to C's and B's but were still disorganized messes, etc.

The problem is with modern life, when I was growing up kids in elementary school sucked down on Coke instead of water. Maybe all that caffeine and sugar is making Timmy hyper? NOPE ADD!


excellent observation that can be applied to a wide range of mental disorders, their medication and treatment. it is a great big package that requires a lot of time and effort. doctors and therapists tell this to patients 5 days a week. one must be willing to help ones self. i've learned the road to good mental health is like mastering the guitar. there are things you have to do every day. slowly, over time, it gets better. to get really good requires steady effort, practice, participation, willingness to excel. one a more personal note even then i think society is way overdue to go back to sterilizing the mentally ill. given a choice i would not have marked the 'yes' box to being born and raised by alcoholic mentally ill socially retarded gamblers etcetera etcetera.
 
2012-11-22 05:23:03 PM  
North, north-east, east, south-east, south, south-south-west... south-south-west, south, south-east, east..
 
2012-11-22 05:25:39 PM  
On the right drug, everyone will act like less of an asshole. More at nine.
 
2012-11-22 05:50:12 PM  

Arthur the Sandwich Maker: On the right drug, everyone will act like less of an asshole. More at nine.


I act like less of an asshole as long as I don't run out of cheddar, tea, or biscuits.
 
2012-11-22 08:10:32 PM  
I wonder how much money WebMD got for that helpful article and the subsequent kickbacks in drug sales.
 
2012-11-22 09:31:57 PM  
Came for the Huxley reference.

Left disappointed.

Literacy is dead.
 
2012-11-22 10:43:24 PM  

shortymac: Here's the problem with ADD medications: EVERYONE improves when they take the drugs.

To deal with ADD you can't simply rely on the drugs, you have to include dietary changes, exercise, cognitive behavioral therapy, and organizational skills developed for ADD.

Hubby's family only relied on drugs and it still didn't get rid of all the issues with ADD. They went from F's and D's to C's and B's but were still disorganized messes, etc.

The problem is with modern life, when I was growing up kids in elementary school sucked down on Coke instead of water. Maybe all that caffeine and sugar is making Timmy hyper? NOPE ADD!


What in the world? All you're showing here is discrimination, arrogance, and lack of both empathy and sympathy.

People with ADD improve because the ADD medication removes the suffering of a constant uncontrollable sense of distraction and painful daily boredom. I've personally known a few people with true ADD for whom the medication calms their mind and reduces the distraction and painful daily boredeom.

People without ADD improve in the obvious stereotypical way of stimulant medications "WOW I was able to stay up for 24 hours studying!". It's not much of an improvement though (unless your goal would be to have boundless energy for 24 hours). It's more of a controlled mania.

But it's entirely different type of improvement from someone with true ADD. People with true ADD live a life with daily uncontrollable manias that swap between good mood and bad mood within minutes or hours. I have in fact seen my close friends with ADD become relaxed and able to even take a nap after taking amphetamine-based ADD medication. It seems paradoxical, but it's because ADD is a disease where the brakes of the brain don't work due to lack of energy to control those brakes (resulting in what appears on the surface to be energetic impulsiveness). Stimulant medications provide energy to these "brakes", hence creating a slow-down effect and giving the poor ADD person a calming relaxation.
 
2012-11-22 10:47:49 PM  

Silly_Sot: Came for the Huxley reference.

Left disappointed.

Literacy is dead.


It's okay. I'd go mostly if I had to do Epsilon semimoron work too. Fordtunately, I'm a Beta, which means I don't have to work so hard.
 
2012-11-22 10:56:39 PM  
Telling someone they need to take a pill seems like less of an intrusion than keeping them in jail, so I'm not feeling the outrage. If you don't like the idea of drugs or jail then there's always the tried and tested route of not committing crimes.
 
2012-11-22 10:58:40 PM  

Marine1: Given that most ADHD drugs are a derivative of methamphetamine (or just meth), and one of my friends was beaten and smothered to death by a guy in the middle of a 6-hour meth bender this summer, I'd say that's probably the worst idea ever by a very, very wide margin.


Maybe you need some meth to possibly raise your IQ above the retarded range.

First off....the article said that there was an actual benefit that was measured to have occurred in reality. The article did not say "We are proposing a theoretical method of lowering crime....". Rather, it said "IF the person had ADD, and IF the person had taken prescribed medication, THEN crime rates were much lowered COMPARED to what is known to be the crime rates for people with ADD who do not take medication".

The bold statements refer to statistical concepts (bear with me, I know this is mightily difficult for you). Each "If X" is not a hypothetical, it is a logical way of saying "Those among this study that were of the type X". Likewise, "Then" says "The resulting crime measurement for those of type X".

In addition, there is a difference between medication overdose and controlled medication usage monitored by a doctor. That guy taking the street meth was first of all probably not stable due to being poor (or maybe he was poor due to being naturally unstable), and he probably was not taking pure methamphetamine. It is not possible to control the quality of street drugs or even know what you're getting in them (a gift given to us by our gracious law makers). Not only did he not know what he was getting, he could not know the dosage. Most likely, he overdosed (i.e. ....having a little too much
Bottom line is: the difference between medication and toxin is dosage. Botulism is one of the most dangerous substances to human beings, yet it is used in controlled quantities as medication or to help with plastic surgery.

Please, get a life and try to learn about these things before you start bashing what you don't understand. Ignorant bashing is part of why we can't have nice things, like decent and humane drug laws.
 
2012-11-22 10:59:46 PM  

Silly_Sot: Came for the Huxley reference.

Left disappointed.

Literacy is dead.


insertsnarkyusername: What, no mention of Soma?


Look harder next time.
 
2012-11-23 12:31:11 AM  
But, I thought headlines in the form of a question were meant to have the answer of no?
 
2012-11-23 01:02:03 AM  

Flappyhead: Silly_Sot: Came for the Huxley reference.

Left disappointed.

Literacy is dead.

insertsnarkyusername: What, no mention of Soma?

Look harder next time.


These fools have a few head injuries from playing centrifugal bumblepuppy.
 
2012-11-23 07:47:58 AM  
What is the easiest way to take a gun from a Grammaton Cleric?
 
2012-11-23 09:08:34 AM  

Flappyhead: Silly_Sot: Came for the Huxley reference.

Left disappointed.

Literacy is dead.

insertsnarkyusername: What, no mention of Soma?

Look harder next time.


unicron702: dready zim: If you need medication to not commit crimes then your medication should be part of the parole conditions for your first court hearing. If you then don`t take your medication you suffer the full penalties for any previous crimes if you had a suspended sentence or similar. if you take your medication then you should suffer full penalties for any crimes you commit.

No excuses.

/I don`t have tourettes, I just think you are a coont

Ah what a brave new thread with such people in it.


Look double harder next time.
 
2012-11-23 09:29:03 AM  
So much derp in here. Hard to even take it seriously.

When I was 9 or so the parents put me on ritalin/dexedrine and all of a sudden I could focus, school made sense, and the seeds were planted for my life long love of books. Two years later it was not kosher to have a drugged up kid and I was pulled off the drugs cold turkey. I quickly resumed my unfocused, haywire, 1.8gpa life.

You can't tell a hyper kid to focus on something they don't want to focus on. You can't tell them to calm down, or be interested in a subject, class, job, relationship, whatever, that is not clicking with them.
For normal people the best I can describe it is like having 50 radio stations going on in my head at the same time and when I'm intensely interested in something due to a natural affinity or curiosity I can trim that down to 5 or so stations containing random and simultaneous thoughts; if I'm forced to focus on something that does not "click" the best I can do is bring it down to about 25 stations.

So while I'm trying to learn math I'm thinking about wading in a stream, humming the itchy and scratchy song, thinking about the noise that a bag of chips makes when opened, looking at the mortar holding the bricks on the walls, the texture of a dog's nose up close, how much I want to make out with the girl sitting next to me, if I like chili or stew better, why helicopter blades when spinning at the right speed look like they are going backwards..... and on and on and on.

Try to wade through all that bullshiat, I dare you.
So I spent my junior high years all the way up to my 30s a highly unfocused / hyper (no pun) focused person. The kind of guy who could go in to painful detail on something that interested me and as long as I was in a familiar realm was considered "smart" yet I could not sit through paying my bills, or even a pre-algebra class (failed it three times as an adult) that I was paying for ($200 to $600) out of pocket each time. Being kept in a room and forced to focus on something that I did not enjoy caused me genuine anxiety and would scatter my brain on a level that was embarrassingly apparent to all around me.

So then I'm 33, I'm depressed (or think I am) because I can't keep things straight in my life. I'm ticking off my wife, have super high levels of anxiety, and just can't figure out why I can't complete basic tasks like a normal person while the high level things I do in my job as a ROV pilot snap together like nothing. I start talking to my doc and tell him about my past, he writes me a script for 7 days worth of adderall. Thirty minutes after taking my first pill I took a nap and slept for most of the day.
I took speed, and I slept.
The radios in my brain shut down to about 3 or so and I was back in a positive place.

That is the difference between someone with an effed up brain like mine and someone with a normal brain.

If you give adderall to someone with a normal brain they spend the rest of the day: cleaning, organizing tupperware by age,size,color, and weight in a complex pattern that they only understand, masturbate 20 times, and then memorize the owner's manual in their car.

You give adderall to someone who is add/adhd and they chill out. In fact, when I'm not on speed I act more like the person on the top.

The great thing about these drugs is that you know within 2 hours if you "need" to be on it or not. Any observant doctor can tell by asking the right questions if they have properly prescribed it.
"what did you do last week after starting adderall?"
"slept, read a little, chilled out"
or
"freaked out, shook a lot, but my house is effing spotless!!!!!moremoremoremore!1111111/hop/hop/hop"

The same doc prescribed my wife 7 pills to see if that was what she was working with (turned out to be thyroid), she was a rock star for 3 days, was crashing hard by the fourth, and stopped taking it after the fifth because she was going through a craving/crashing cycle.

Telling someone with add/adhd to focus is like telling someone with psoriasis to just have their skin stop hating them. Sure diet and exercise help, but trust me, I was a Marine for 9 years, I had plenty of both and was still scatterbrained.

My life is so much better now that I would give the last 10 years of it to be this clear headed until the end. Having a head full of fifty thousand stupid thoughts while trying to remember what your wife just told you (for the third time) five minutes ago is no way to make it.
So if you don't have add/adhd and are all pouty about people being on meds, please go die in a pit of flaming aids infested penis worms.

/wot
/csb
 
2012-11-23 12:39:47 PM  

omg bbq: So much derp in here. Hard to even take it seriously.

When I was 9 or so the parents put me on ritalin/dexedrine and all of a sudden I could focus, school made sense, and the seeds were planted for my life long love of books. Two years later it was not kosher to have a drugged up kid and I was pulled off the drugs cold turkey. I quickly resumed my unfocused, haywire, 1.8gpa life.

You can't tell a hyper kid to focus on something they don't want to focus on. You can't tell them to calm down, or be interested in a subject, class, job, relationship, whatever, that is not clicking with them.
For normal people the best I can describe it is like having 50 radio stations going on in my head at the same time and when I'm intensely interested in something due to a natural affinity or curiosity I can trim that down to 5 or so stations containing random and simultaneous thoughts; if I'm forced to focus on something that does not "click" the best I can do is bring it down to about 25 stations.

So while I'm trying to learn math I'm thinking about wading in a stream, humming the itchy and scratchy song, thinking about the noise that a bag of chips makes when opened, looking at the mortar holding the bricks on the walls, the texture of a dog's nose up close, how much I want to make out with the girl sitting next to me, if I like chili or stew better, why helicopter blades when spinning at the right speed look like they are going backwards..... and on and on and on.

Try to wade through all that bullshiat, I dare you.
So I spent my junior high years all the way up to my 30s a highly unfocused / hyper (no pun) focused person. The kind of guy who could go in to painful detail on something that interested me and as long as I was in a familiar realm was considered "smart" yet I could not sit through paying my bills, or even a pre-algebra class (failed it three times as an adult) that I was paying for ($200 to $600) out of pocket each time. Being kept in a room and forced to fo ...


This. I have ADHD but my parents refused to put me on anything, I was really good at tests but never could pay attention in class itself so I eek'd by, later in life I found those caffeine pills they sell for truck drivers to stay awake, they actually made me focus and calmed me down, not amp me up. I talked to my dr and he explained to me ADHD and how it works.

Even though I dont take the meds I have been able to control it better knowing that its a real issue and not just in my head, to tell people that have an issue to just get over it is really really easy, as long as you dont have the issue...
 
2012-11-24 03:17:40 AM  
If you manage to read all the below, congratulations! You've just survived thought vomit from two ADD people! lol

omg bbq: My life is so much better now that I would give the last 10 years of it to be this clear headed until the end. Having a head full of fifty thousand stupid thoughts while trying to remember what your wife just told you (for the third time) five minutes ago is no way to make it.
So if you don't have add/adhd and are all pouty about people being on meds, please go die in a pit of flaming aids infested penis worms.


This man has it totally correct. ADD bigots who think ADD medication is a joke, or don't "believe" ADD (like a few from this thread), please die in a pit of flaming aids infested penis works (same goes for bigots of any mental disorder).

I'll admit it - in the previous post when I said "I've personally known a few people with true ADD", I was referring to myself. School was mostly easy for me, I could make good grades due to having a good long term memory and strong intuition. But in adult life, ADD really does suck balls and I have no control over it.

I work as a software developer. If I can write my own code, I tend to write well designed and non-confusing code. But in the real world, you'll most often be tasked to work on other people's code. Most other people don't anally design good code because they're not as easily confused. Their badly designed code (well, badly designed for me) kicked my ADD ass in these recent years, until my diagnosis. Then I discovered the beauty of stimulant ADD medication.

With my ADD med, I make a lot less dinky mistakes for clients to get pissed about, I am less confused by other people's code, and I don't feel a constant sense of doom-like boredom. I feel more clear headed, calm, and wonderfully smoothed out. I can take the med and lay down for a couple hours peacefully napping, and wake up with my mind feeling like a million bucks.

Without ADD medication, I have those 50 radio stations blaring static in my head. e.g. in the evenings my poor wife often had to endure my "thought vomit" sessions: I will read about some cool science concept and gain about a bajillion ideas all at once that I HAVE TO EXPLAIN, IT IS SO AWESOME. While explaining, I usually gain new ideas and eventually I've taken countless tangents. My wife is lost, as anyone not in my head would be. Being the angel that she is, she just nods and listens or laughs at me nicely, or calmly asks for 10 quiet minutes that she can read a couple more chapters in her book (I don't know how I lucked out like this).

Communicating to someone while I'm in "thought vomit" mode feels like I'm a dam trying to hold back a large lake. With medication....I'm holding back the same volume of water, but it's a river...more narrow and simpler to manage.
 
2012-11-24 07:26:12 AM  

stevetherobot: Flappyhead: Silly_Sot: Came for the Huxley reference.

Left disappointed.

Literacy is dead.

insertsnarkyusername: What, no mention of Soma?

Look harder next time.

unicron702: dready zim: If you need medication to not commit crimes then your medication should be part of the parole conditions for your first court hearing. If you then don`t take your medication you suffer the full penalties for any previous crimes if you had a suspended sentence or similar. if you take your medication then you should suffer full penalties for any crimes you commit.

No excuses.

/I don`t have tourettes, I just think you are a coont

Ah what a brave new thread with such people in it.

Look double harder next time.


Oh, I`m an illiterate idiot who completely missed the brave new world reference and responded to the words. I`m a literal fool.
 
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