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(LA Times)   Record Store Day organizers are hoping that many new rare vinyl releases will bring customers to record stores on Black Friday, just as soon as people finish shopping at the Buggy Whip stores   (latimes.com) divider line 90
    More: Amusing, Record Store Day, Biz Markie, Jeff Buckley, Mark Mothersbaugh, Wii U, Captain Beefheart, Alexandre Desplat, Leonard Cohen  
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903 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 22 Nov 2012 at 9:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-22 10:35:55 PM

swaxhog: FeedTheCollapse: I know you're joking, but I've heard arguments that mirrored this almost exactly. I mean, arguing over the soundquality of vinyl vs. digital is one thing, but the "I just like the ritual that comes from listening to vinyl" is one of the saddest arguments I've ever read.

I see it a lot with ebooks vs paper books. "I like the smell of a paper book". Dude, that's mold and mildew.


That's why I will never tease someone for being an audiophile. It makes no sense to me, but at the same time, the thought of throwing out my physical book in favor of a nook or kindle makes me feel ill. We're all stupid about something
 
2012-11-22 10:46:30 PM
I don't like kindles or e-books as much as books because screens have a reflective surface, paper doesn't, the text and graphics are absolutely static and less fatiguing and I like being able to just toss a bevnap in the pages where I left off and pick it up later. That's what I'm comfortable with. And the notion that NEW! is always THE ONE TRUE WAY NOW™ seems a bit silly to me.
 
2012-11-22 10:47:40 PM
Also, I've never had a battery in a book fail. : )
 
2012-11-22 10:54:00 PM

bunner: I don't like kindles or e-books as much as books because screens have a reflective surface, paper doesn't, the text and graphics are absolutely static and less fatiguing and I like being able to just toss a bevnap in the pages where I left off and pick it up later. That's what I'm comfortable with. And the notion that NEW! is always THE ONE TRUE WAY NOW™ seems a bit silly to me.


the only time I've ever had a glare while reading was using an actual book. I don't think I've ever had that problem on my Kindle.

I think there's valid reasons to prefer books over Kindles (I would say yours is valid, even if I don't think it's correct), but stupid shiat like "I like how books smell" is just silly and doesn't really argue on any kind of technical level. I feel the same way about quite a lot of vinyl enthusiasts.
 
2012-11-23 12:23:39 AM

FeedTheCollapse: I think there's valid reasons to prefer books over Kindles (I would say yours is valid, even if I don't think it's correct), but stupid shiat like "I like how books smell" is just silly and doesn't really argue on any kind of technical level. I feel the same way about quite a lot of vinyl enthusiasts.


Perhaps, but the ostensibly unimpeachable technocracy was founded by people who read a lot of books and if reading is a pleasure, I find no fault in whatever peripheral enjoyment may be derived by the people who use them. It requires, in my humble opinion, no argument, no defense and certainly no justification on a "technical" level. That notion, to me, seems equally as silly as "I like how books smell".
 
2012-11-23 12:35:50 AM
We must, after all, remember that the simulacrum is based upon the actual article and successful emulation does not equal validity or relevance, let alone superiority.
 
2012-11-23 02:07:51 AM

bunner: I don't like kindles or e-books as much as books because screens have a reflective surface, paper doesn't, the text and graphics are absolutely static and less fatiguing and I like being able to just toss a bevnap in the pages where I left off and pick it up later. That's what I'm comfortable with. And the notion that NEW! is always THE ONE TRUE WAY NOW™ seems a bit silly to me.


Paying a hundred-some-odd dollars for a device so that I can then turn around and pay full price for the books I want anyway just doesn't seem like a very wise purchase. I'd rather have a little bit more space on my shelves taken up.
 
2012-11-23 02:10:02 AM

Third_Uncle_Eno: Cons: records develop hiss, crackles, pops, and skips.
pros: cds only develop one of these things.


I have ONE example where the vinyl sound quality is better than the cd.
CD: Communique by Dire Straits. Purchased in 1992. Most likely an 1980's cd version.
LP: Heavy gram vinyl re-issue. (note: just a re-issue, not a remaster).

The cd sounds like a typical 80's cd: quiet, slightly flat, slightly hissy. (compare to "Love Over Gold" or "Local Hero" soundtrack, which was recorded/engineered/mixed with Digital Equipment. Albeit early 80's digital equipment. They still sound crystal clear and great today)

Meanwhile the vinyl re-issue has a broad, louder, more full sound.


So you discovered that newer media works better in general. Interesting.
 
2012-11-23 07:41:33 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: Paying a hundred-some-odd dollars for a device so that I can then turn around and pay full price for the books I want anyway just doesn't seem like a very wise purchase. I'd rather have a little bit more space on my shelves taken up.


I do agree that the price of e-books, while cheaper than regular books, is still fairly outrageous considering there's almost no cost-justification.


thought there's *ahem* ways around that...
 
2012-11-23 07:51:46 AM

FeedTheCollapse: The My Little Pony Killer: Paying a hundred-some-odd dollars for a device so that I can then turn around and pay full price for the books I want anyway just doesn't seem like a very wise purchase. I'd rather have a little bit more space on my shelves taken up.

I do agree that the price of e-books, while cheaper than regular books, is still fairly outrageous considering there's almost no cost-justification.


thought there's *ahem* ways around that...


So paying for the content and the author who created it is for suckers since there's no *thing* there? Does that apply to software, too, or just books and music?
 
2012-11-23 07:58:58 AM
I have a theory.

In a society where everything is indexed to bank notes, if you de-monetize something, people stop making it.

I don't know if I'd be comfortable in a world where music was made by some lunkhead with a copy of Garageband, a Casio and his little sister caterwauling into a Radio shack mic.

Let alone museums full of sh*t scribbled in MS Paint and sh*tty blogs as literature.
 
2012-11-23 08:02:16 AM

bunner: Vinyl does actually sound better with a really good system.

It is not, however portable, convenient or inexpensive and you can't make endless "free" copies and hand them out like m&ms on Halloween.

So, yeah, people don't much care about it anymore.

It is, however, still a very useful format for music, if not one for saying "OMG, this totally should be my ringtone!" It's simply moved upscale like anything that focuses on quality rather than convenience. Vinyl is largely for people with 34,000.00 stereo systems in acoustically neutral rooms who have the kind of money for that stuff. And, yeah, that's fine.


i50.tinypic.com
 
2012-11-23 08:03:32 AM

kab: lol u gaiz are old! all mah music is in the clowd who needs records anyhow lol


503 Not Authorized

/Your music? Cannot haz.
 
2012-11-23 08:05:34 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Wasilla Hillbilly: I miss the warmth of analog video

Yeah, and the pops and crackles from when the tape got eaten by the VCR and you had to take it apart and try to smooth out the tape...

*sigh*

The good old days.


There were other kinds of analog video...
www.shebytes.com
/Yes it was analog
 
2012-11-23 08:06:26 AM
 
2012-11-23 08:12:25 AM

FirstNationalBastard: gnarlywizzard: The best way for artists to release music going forward IMO, is high quality vinyl records with high quality art/packaging, something that will justify the space it takes up, and include a download link for the mp3s with purchase. most independent musicians can sell a decent LP package for 10-15 bucks and still make money with runs of a few hundred copies. 7-inches and 45s should cost 5-10 bucks. CDs can be more cheap to produce, but they're also.,.cheaper.

...with superior sound, of course.

But, hey, you don't have anything to separate out the seeds and stems on.


the problem with vinyl made today is all the mastering equipment is digital... so you are going through this process:

A-D then D-A then A-D then D-A (Original Audio, Recorded on Master, Master to Vinyl, Vinyl played on Stereo, Stereo to Ears

instead of:

A-A then A-A then A-A and A-A (Original Audio, Recorded on Analog Master, Analog Master to Vinyl, Vinyl played on Analog Stereo, Analog Stereo to Ears

of course, today (if you could go analog all the way to the stereo, you would still have an A-D converter in the stereo and a D-A converter going to the speakers on any modern stereo equipment.

The only way to get pure Analog is to get older equipment or build it yourself.
 
2012-11-23 08:13:59 AM

FeedTheCollapse: swaxhog: FeedTheCollapse: I know you're joking, but I've heard arguments that mirrored this almost exactly. I mean, arguing over the soundquality of vinyl vs. digital is one thing, but the "I just like the ritual that comes from listening to vinyl" is one of the saddest arguments I've ever read.

I see it a lot with ebooks vs paper books. "I like the smell of a paper book". Dude, that's mold and mildew.

yeah, that's another one that perplexes me. I can udnerstand preferring a physical product to a digital product, but any arguments involving secondary characteristics or rituals in using the mediums just feel like a lot of bending-over-backwards defenses that come off more as stubbornness.


Humans use all 5 senses....
How does a digital library smell compared to an actual library?
 
2012-11-23 08:17:26 AM
Or you could just get a pair of Futterman Atma Sphere OTL monoblocks, a pure analogue preamp and a really good table. They still make all that stuff, but oddly, it seems to be astoundingly expensive compared to digital gear. Much like hand made leather shoes compared to Chinese vinyl, "my feet hurt" sneakers at Target.
 
2012-11-23 08:20:11 AM

bunner: HindiDiscoMonster:
[i50.tinypic.com image 500x333]

What a 6 disc changer looked like in '61


OMFG that is so cool! I love it!
 
2012-11-23 08:20:47 AM
We, your corporate masters, are here to make you live better.

What would you rather have? Stuff that sort of works, sort of fits, looks / sounds like ass, breaks easily, isn't repairable but IT'S B*TCHIN' CHEAP - or a lot of stupid expensive stuff that, if you buy it, actually works well and would lift the domestic economy up eventually?

Yeah, that's what we thought.

It's black friday, kids! Get out there and stuff those stockings!
 
2012-11-23 08:23:11 AM

bunner: FeedTheCollapse: The My Little Pony Killer: Paying a hundred-some-odd dollars for a device so that I can then turn around and pay full price for the books I want anyway just doesn't seem like a very wise purchase. I'd rather have a little bit more space on my shelves taken up.

I do agree that the price of e-books, while cheaper than regular books, is still fairly outrageous considering there's almost no cost-justification.


thought there's *ahem* ways around that...

So paying for the content and the author who created it is for suckers since there's no *thing* there? Does that apply to software, too, or just books and music?




Yeah, fark libraries! Only True Fans have an opinion on a piece of art because they spend money!
 
2012-11-23 08:23:26 AM

bunner: Or you could just get a pair of Futterman Atma Sphere OTL monoblocks, a pure analogue preamp and a really good table. They still make all that stuff, but oddly, it seems to be astoundingly expensive compared to digital gear. Much like hand made leather shoes compared to Chinese vinyl, "my feet hurt" sneakers at Target.


I know... it's sick isn't it? Vacuum tubes (good ones) are outrageous... but worth it. There is no sound on earth like analog.

"T i s t e p o l m w t i i a u i ."

^^^^ That reads "This is the problem with digital music." --- in digital :P

Can't seem to get people to understand that digital is sampled. Maybe that will help.
 
2012-11-23 08:25:19 AM

FeedTheCollapse: Yeah, fark libraries! Only True Fans have an opinion on a piece of art because they spend money!


That wasn't my question. I hope you don't mind me setting fire to your strawman before you could get it to my lawn.
 
2012-11-23 08:30:19 AM
I think it has something to do with why a Mercedes Benz costs more than a Pontiac G6.
 
2012-11-23 08:38:10 AM
For anyone who is interested in the truth about Analog vs Digital...

An analog waveform looks like this:
1.bp.blogspot.com

A digital waveform looks like this:
thedawstudio.com

Note how the analog waveform has smooth peaks and valleys where the square wave has sharp peaks and valleys. The reason is simple. An analog waveform has infinite resolution and a digital waveform is either all on or off - binary. The analog waveform sounds more natural because in the real world, all audio is analog. This is why, on digital media, sound may be technically good and always reproducible exactly the same way every time, but it will always sound harsh by comparison with the exact same music in an analog format. Each format has its pro and con sides. Analog sources tend to degrade over time (noise, hiss, pops, crackle, etc) and Digital either works or doesn't, but has problems like resolution, rounding errors, etc.

Here is a primer.
 
2012-11-23 08:39:35 AM
If you ask a person who is involved in making things in this country, why they don't make them BETTER in order to compete, eventually, they are going to say "hey, the guys upstairs don't give a sh*t as long as they get their bonuses." American workers aren't lazy or stupid. Unions aren't dismantling the viability of American business. Fat, greedy cocksuckers in nice suits who do next to NOTHING involved in producing the products they sell, other than trying to make it cheaper every year, are.

112west.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-11-23 08:44:02 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: Note how the analog waveform has smooth peaks and valleys where the square wave has sharp peaks and valleys. The reason is simple. An analog waveform has infinite resolution and a digital waveform is either all on or off - binary. The analog waveform sounds more natural because in the real world, all audio is analog.


No! You can't use science to defend old stuff because everybody knows science is computers and computers are digital. DUH!
 
2012-11-23 08:44:55 AM

bunner: HindiDiscoMonster: Note how the analog waveform has smooth peaks and valleys where the square wave has sharp peaks and valleys. The reason is simple. An analog waveform has infinite resolution and a digital waveform is either all on or off - binary. The analog waveform sounds more natural because in the real world, all audio is analog.

No! You can't use science to defend old stuff because everybody knows science is computers and computers are digital. DUH!


I'm sorry... I forgot where I was...
 
2012-11-23 09:25:38 AM
I will be doing my black friday shopping at Princeton Record Exchange. Long live analog.
 
2012-11-23 12:30:22 PM

Son of Streak: swaxhog: FeedTheCollapse: I know you're joking, but I've heard arguments that mirrored this almost exactly. I mean, arguing over the soundquality of vinyl vs. digital is one thing, but the "I just like the ritual that comes from listening to vinyl" is one of the saddest arguments I've ever read.

I see it a lot with ebooks vs paper books. "I like the smell of a paper book". Dude, that's mold and mildew.

That's why I will never tease someone for being an audiophile. It makes no sense to me, but at the same time, the thought of throwing out my physical book in favor of a nook or kindle makes me feel ill. We're all stupid about something


Up until a couple years ago when the national book club went out of business, I was still buying the paper book and an ebook. Putting the paper book on my bookshelf and never opening it but still in the habit of having to own one. I have since went 100% digital the same as I did with music and video years before. Having all your reading material on a single sd card and using a good e-ink reader is far better than carrying around even 1 hardcover.
 
2012-11-23 02:38:10 PM
Wifey and I both have Kindle Fires but hardly ever use them for reading. Hers is used 100% for video (mostly TV series) and mine split about 50/50 between video and Fark or email. We both love books.
 
2012-11-23 04:37:49 PM
i.qkme.me 

i.qkme.me
 
2012-11-23 05:35:53 PM
chriskresser.com

All my mp3s are backed up in THREE PLACES!
 
2012-11-23 06:13:09 PM

bunner: FeedTheCollapse: Yeah, fark libraries! Only True Fans have an opinion on a piece of art because they spend money!

That wasn't my question. I hope you don't mind me setting fire to your strawman before you could get it to my lawn.


very well then: I did not say that paying for MP3s, epub/mobi, etc. is for suckers; I stated that I think that the minute price differences for the digital products is rather absurd considering there's not as much cost put into the product as there is for the physical versions (i.e. printing, artwork, packaging, etc.). It's certainly not like the cost savings for the digital version is then defrayed to the author/artist.

though as an aside, I do think the idea of "only True Connoisseurs pay for music" to be a generally absurd notion that's nothing but snobby self-congratulatory bullshiat.
 
2012-11-23 06:37:00 PM

FeedTheCollapse: though as an aside, I do think the idea of "only True Connoisseurs pay for music" to be a generally absurd notion that's nothing but snobby self-congratulatory bullshiat.


And that's the strawman.

You attributed that to me.

Music, literature and film are not things that are glued up like a collage out of available 1's and 0's and a film song or a book emerges. It's not a matter of the hard copy cost. There's is a relatively minor expense added when making a disc or a hard copy book or DVD, admittedly, but that's not what you're paying for. You're paying for directors, writers, producers, engineers, studio time, grips, CGI farms, actors, set design, editors, producers, promotion, hotels, trucking and transfer and about a jillion other things that go into making a file or a record that, oddly, do not fall out of the sky, either. When you de-monetize something, the people who are capable of doing it well stop doing it because they have bills to pay.

I might also add that I find the "if it's to gotten for free, cool, I will and, like, f*ck all that stupid sh*t I don't care about" to be not exactly the mark of a true fan, either. I've heard every, sniffy, "whut UVER" argument to endorse the idea that as long as people are stupid enough to make things that cost money and can be gotten for free, it's their f*cking problem and I can't really justify it, personally. I picked up a few pieces of warez and some .mp3s in the day before I figured out I was basically eating out of the fridges of the artists I claimed to enjoy so much. I don't do that anymore. YMMV. I'm not on a pulpit and trying to put me on one isn't gonna fly.
 
2012-11-23 11:49:35 PM
But will the analog signal work over my gold plated Monster Cables?
 
2012-11-24 12:51:36 AM
Z

Gleeman: But will the analog signal work over my gold plated Monster Cables?


No.
 
2012-11-24 07:28:19 AM

John Buck 41: ZGleeman: But will the analog signal work over my gold plated Monster Cables?

No.


True fact.

Monster, aside from being a lawsuit happy corporate whorehouse, makes the 1/4" ends on their guitar cables just *little* thicker than normal.

So, once you buy one and use it, the little tip connector thingy in the jack gets spread out and other brands of cable have a tendency to not seat correctly in the jack anymore.

Lovely bit of engineering, eh? Avoid those.
 
2012-11-25 12:46:53 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: For anyone who is interested in the truth about Analog vs Digital...

An analog waveform looks like this:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 446x304]

A digital waveform looks like this:
[thedawstudio.com image 496x304]

Note how the analog waveform has smooth peaks and valleys where the square wave has sharp peaks and valleys. The reason is simple. An analog waveform has infinite resolution and a digital waveform is either all on or off - binary. The analog waveform sounds more natural because in the real world, all audio is analog. This is why, on digital media, sound may be technically good and always reproducible exactly the same way every time, but it will always sound harsh by comparison with the exact same music in an analog format. Each format has its pro and con sides. Analog sources tend to degrade over time (noise, hiss, pops, crackle, etc) and Digital either works or doesn't, but has problems like resolution, rounding errors, etc.

Here is a primer.


Someone understands. Excellent.
 
2012-11-25 12:52:18 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: For anyone who is interested in the truth about Analog vs Digital...

An analog waveform looks like this:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 446x304]

A digital waveform looks like this:
[thedawstudio.com image 496x304]

Note how the analog waveform has smooth peaks and valleys where the square wave has sharp peaks and valleys. The reason is simple. An analog waveform has infinite resolution and a digital waveform is either all on or off - binary. The analog waveform sounds more natural because in the real world, all audio is analog. This is why, on digital media, sound may be technically good and always reproducible exactly the same way every time, but it will always sound harsh by comparison with the exact same music in an analog format. Each format has its pro and con sides. Analog sources tend to degrade over time (noise, hiss, pops, crackle, etc) and Digital either works or doesn't, but has problems like resolution, rounding errors, etc.

Here is a primer.


But this is a more accurate look at how it works in the real world. You definitely loose the subtleties that analog has.

But this is fark. Someone will call me out on this. Someone who has no idea how electronics work.

wiki.hydrogenaudio.org
 
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