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(Patheos)   That awkward moment when a creationist gets outwitted by a sixth grader   (patheos.com) divider line 628
    More: Amusing, Hemant Mehtas, Portland State University, existence of God, ancient Greeks, innovations  
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35973 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Nov 2012 at 1:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-22 02:47:27 AM

reklamfox: SevenizGud: Even more awkward will be when the little shiat descends to hell to burn in agony for all eternity.

That's what always made God so unappealing to me... only a total penis would give mankind the gift of free will, then punish us for all eternity for not using it exactly how he wants us to. That's just a cruel joke and it makes me think that the Christian god is a total shiathead for setting us all up for failure.

/Also, I'm pretty sure its cheating if your rule book is totally unclear
//Slashies


Free will is from the Devil. Adam and Eve were blissfully stupid until that snake made them eat the apple. Then God jumped out from behind a bush and yelled "Gotcha!" and kicked their asses to the curb. You'd think eating apples would be a sin
 
2012-11-22 02:48:18 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: log_jammin: THE DEVIL MADE ME TYPE JOSH INSTEAD OF GOSH!!!!

I'm telling Josh. And I think he'll be very hurt.


fine. Just keep Drake out of it.
 
2012-11-22 02:48:42 AM
The thing is if a god does exist it obviously doesnt give a fark about us (see jersey shore)
 
2012-11-22 02:49:00 AM

Chaide: I guess I'm agnostic because the realistic side of me sees no evidence of a god (at least in the sense that a mainstream religion would like me to). Still, I'd be willing to accept a higher power, should one poke its head into reality in an indisputible fashion. Unlikely.


That's not agnosticism. That's just being pragmatic.
 
2012-11-22 02:49:43 AM

Mega Steve: reklamfox: SevenizGud: Even more awkward will be when the little shiat descends to hell to burn in agony for all eternity.

That's what always made God so unappealing to me... only a total penis would give mankind the gift of free will, then punish us for all eternity for not using it exactly how he wants us to. That's just a cruel joke and it makes me think that the Christian god is a total shiathead for setting us all up for failure.

/Also, I'm pretty sure its cheating if your rule book is totally unclear
//Slashies

Free will is from the Devil. Adam and Eve were blissfully stupid until that snake made them eat the apple. Then God jumped out from behind a bush and yelled "Gotcha!" and kicked their asses to the curb. You'd think eating apples would be a sin


So all this video proves is that some of us never moved past that blissfully stupid phase...

/I'll be here all night
 
2012-11-22 02:49:44 AM

man metaphysical: The thing is if a god does exist it obviously doesnt give a fark about us (see jersey shore)


You mean the show, or the damage from Sandy?
 
2012-11-22 02:49:49 AM
I grew up in a christian school, these people don't ever internalize situations like this. They simply write it off as a poor child who has been influenced by parents who don't believe and they corrupted his mind. To them, their illogic is perfectly logical. It's sad. They effect many children who become adults and in turn effect their children - all with lies. It will just take time, they have thousands of years and a tradition of fear and death behind them. We just need more time - humanity will realize it's fault.
 
2012-11-22 02:49:54 AM

Gyrfalcon: Arguing with a religious person who insists there is a god because they know there is a god will get you exactly nowhere. However, arguing with a non-religious person who insists there is no god because they know there is no god will get you exactly the same place. And that's pretty much where this thread will end up. At the end of the day it DOES NOT MATTER if there is a god or there is not a god; what DOES matter, however, is how people react when challenged about the existence or non-existence of a deity.

There are and have always been people who accept the existence of a god and yet have drilled down to the finest points of science; there have been and are people who insist there is no god at all and yet behave as if some unknown force was driving them on as devoutly as if they believed in Jehovah. Atheism is not a prerequisite for hard-edged science and rationality; nor is religiousness a bar to scientific inquiry and skepticism. But the way people have been carrying on lately, it's going to become that way. Blindly rejecting religious thought simply BECAUSE it is religious is no more "open minded" than blindly rejecting scientific thought for the same reason.

Gregor Mendel was a monk. So was Roger Bacon. So was Martin Luther. Darwin got his start as a Unitarian preacher. It's not the god part that makes people bad thinkers; it's whether or not they can accept the idea that there are other ways of thinking. And that's not unique to religion.


Not unique, but pretty common.

\so was Giordano Bruno
\\monks come in all flavors
 
2012-11-22 02:50:14 AM
No Blue Gargoyle? We either got smart of gave up.

We gave up.
 
2012-11-22 02:50:21 AM

log_jammin: Notabunny: Has anyone heard yet what the Creationists are going to say in a few weeks when NASA announces they've found signs of life on Mars?

"Proof that god is everywhere" is my guess.


I guess that's reasonable. But it's not very satisfying.

propasaurus: Notabunny: Has anyone heard yet what the Creationists are going to say in a few weeks when NASA announces they've found signs of life on Mars?

I had a pastor years ago who taught that the parable of the lost sheep could be interpreted to mean that there are other planets with life out there. But ours is the only one that went astray, and so we're the ones the shepherd had to come save.


Now THAT'S satisfying! Spiritual, emotional, hopeful, it's got everything. I like this one.

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Notabunny: Has anyone heard yet what the Creationists are going to say in a few weeks when NASA announces they've found signs of life on Mars?

They're probably just going to announce the presence of water, is my guess.


Perhaps, but they've been saying the news will be "Earth-shaking" and we already know there is ice.
 
2012-11-22 02:50:55 AM

Ambivalence: How come agnostics are never represented in these debates.


We are the ones looking on with bemusement at both the religious and the atheists.
 
2012-11-22 02:51:45 AM
Mike_LowELL: RoWRRR DoNt TaX MY CAt FUd ROWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Whoa-K, now I know for a stone cold FACT you been freebasing the Cheetos. LOLz.

Mike_LowELL: You would be wise to reread my post. In thirty years, it will be the world foundation for all academic studies. In fifty years, it will merge with the technological singularity and the singularity will declare me your king.

Sorry, pal, I already have an Emperor.

Would you like to mainline a few of my hallucinogenic jellybeans?

They're Reaganistic.
 
2012-11-22 02:51:51 AM

Notabunny: Perhaps, but they've been saying the news will be "Earth-shaking"


They discovered a copy of Firefly - Season 2???
 
2012-11-22 02:52:23 AM

Notabunny: Perhaps, but they've been saying the news will be "Earth-shaking" and we already know there is ice.


Ruins of an ancient civilization, that destroyed their planet before sending the survivors to the nearest habitable planet.
 
2012-11-22 02:52:47 AM

Chaide: lordargent: Chaide: I guess I'm agnostic because the realistic side of me sees no evidence of a god (at least in the sense that a mainstream religion would like me to). Still, I'd be willing to accept a higher power, should one poke its head into reality in an indisputible fashion. Unlikely

I've watched too much good sci-fi over the years so I would still be skeptical (in secret probably though, depending on the demeanor of the higher power that's poking their heads in).

EX: something shows up, says "I'm god", ok, how do we know that this is really God?

In Bablylon 5, [when kosh (a member of an advanced alien race) is revealed in his true form, people of different races see him differently (as a representation of their own god)].

So how can we be sure that it's a real god and not just some super powerful alien? 

[www.jennysb5world.3owl.com image 175x242]

And this is a situation I've also considered, believe it or not.

When it comes down to it, I just can't be bothered to convince people why I believe the things I do. To me, it's perfectly logical to be unsure, as there's always more to determined. At the same time, it's not very logical for me to let those insecurities outweigh the cold, logical facts of science.

To me, being agnostic is simply being open to suggestion proof. Not open to manipulation.

 
2012-11-22 02:52:58 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Notabunny: Perhaps, but they've been saying the news will be "Earth-shaking"

They discovered a copy of Firefly - Season 2???


They found Iraq's WMD's?
 
2012-11-22 02:53:43 AM

DisregardTheFollowing: Scripture (loosely quoted) says: There is only one God, He created all things, and in Him there is no evil. So if that's true, where did evil come from? Can you make an argument that evil doesn't exist?


And just how did Satan revolt against God? Angels do not possess free will. Only humans have been given that gift/burden by God.
 
2012-11-22 02:53:56 AM

Ed Grubermann: Chaide: I guess I'm agnostic because the realistic side of me sees no evidence of a god (at least in the sense that a mainstream religion would like me to). Still, I'd be willing to accept a higher power, should one poke its head into reality in an indisputible fashion. Unlikely.

That's not agnosticism. That's just being pragmatic.


Not calling you out with the statement I'm about to make, but hear me out.

This is why I don't care for religious discussions, or at least where they end up. People are more concerned with the label, than they are the thoughts behind them. There's much more to the beliefs I hold than a single word.
 
2012-11-22 02:54:53 AM

Gyrfalcon: At the end of the day it DOES NOT MATTER if there is a god or there is not a god;


Maybe not at the end of the day, but certainly at the end of my days.

/I'm kinda hoping I'm wrong about no god, or at least wrong about no afterlife.

Gyrfalcon: Blindly rejecting religious thought simply BECAUSE it is religious


This is where I have to seriously disagree, and maybe I'm just not reading you correctly. I can certainly reject any line of thought that says "X is bad/good because god". I can certainly reject any line of thought that says "X is bad/good because my parents told me so". Both of those are inherently religious thinking.

Now, X could be murder, or X could be helping your fellow man. Rejecting those concepts doesn't mean I think murder is good, nor helping one another bad. What I reject is the religious reasoning behind it. As you say, someone who is highly religious can certainly be capable of making scientific breakthroughs. What you won't see him do is sit down with the bible for a few hours of reading and then submit any thoughts he had as data for a scientific discourse. So I guess maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean by "religious thought" because if the only basis for a thought is religious, then I'm going to reject it and rightly so. But if someone presents a thought with reasoning BOTH religious and non-religious, then I will ignore the religious side of it and look at the non-religious reasoning behind it.

I doubt you are saying that I shouldn't reject a statement like "god farts lightning bolts and that's where they come from" but are you saying that if someone says "god farts and that creates a path of least resistance for energy to come from a cloud down to the ground" I should be spending even a minor amount of thought pondering flatulent deities?
 
2012-11-22 02:56:32 AM

eraser8: Smackledorfer: eraser8: I'm going to correct you because you're wrong: quantum field theory has demonstrated absolutely that something can come from nothing.

As far as I was aware we could get SOMETHING from nothing, but we don't know if we could get everything from nothing (so perhaps I misspoke above) and we still can't get energy from nothing. So still no scientific explanation for how absolute nothing can create a big bang.

But then I didn't take physics at the university level, so I could be quite behind and in the dark on these things.

If you're really interested, a good primer on the subject is Stephen Hawking's latest book, The Grand Design.

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]

It's completely accessible to the layman (otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to understand it).


I might have to. I'm going to midnights soon and plan to get some reading in.
 
2012-11-22 02:56:56 AM

RedPhoenix122: The All-Powerful Atheismo: Notabunny: Perhaps, but they've been saying the news will be "Earth-shaking"

They discovered a copy of Firefly - Season 2???

They found Iraq's WMD's?


They found the original film reel of Song of the South?
 
2012-11-22 02:56:58 AM

ciberido: RedPhoenix122: SevenizGud: Even more awkward will be when the little shiat descends to hell to burn in agony for all eternity.

But enough about the creationist.

Thank God nobody mentioned the banana nightmare.


Did you know Comfort tried the same thing with the apple? I've always wondered how he explains the macadamia nut.
 
2012-11-22 02:57:13 AM

reklamfox: So a large majority of us are born destined to be thrown into a lake of fire for all eternity by a dickhead God with a ruthless sense of humor, and there is nothing we can do about it?


Nope, just the ones destined to be pieces of shiat, like Esau.
 
2012-11-22 02:58:17 AM

RedPhoenix122: Notabunny: Perhaps, but they've been saying the news will be "Earth-shaking" and we already know there is ice.

Ruins of an ancient civilization, that destroyed their planet before sending the survivors to the nearest habitable planet.


img.photobucket.com
 
2012-11-22 02:58:26 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Ambivalence: How come agnostics are never represented in these debates.

We are the ones looking on with bemusement at both the religious and the atheists.


Meanwhile, some of us actually know what "atheist" means.
 
2012-11-22 03:00:20 AM

Chaide: Not calling you out with the statement I'm about to make, but hear me out.

This is why I don't care for religious discussions, or at least where they end up. People are more concerned with the label, than they are the thoughts behind them. There's much more to the beliefs I hold than a single word.



I can understand it is a complex issue not easily simplified down to a single label. But from the brief description you do generally sound like a soft atheist.

An agnostic doesn't think the concept of god is defined and therefor would not hope for or be interested in the idea of one being discovered, as you said you are. It is an interesting difference between atheists and agnostics. It's perfectly valid (and common) for an atheist to say, "I think it would be cool if there really was a god." Whereas an agnostic thinks that idea is as silly as asserting there already is a god.
 
2012-11-22 03:00:33 AM

ciberido: DisregardTheFollowing: Scripture (loosely quoted) says: There is only one God, He created all things, and in Him there is no evil. So if that's true, where did evil come from? Can you make an argument that evil doesn't exist?

Actually, as far as I know, the Christian Bible never specifically says that there is only one god. In fact, there are a number of places where it seems to imply that there is more than one. Modern Christians seem to believe that there is only one god, but so far as I know there's no "proof" that this is true.

What the Bible does say is that you should worship Jesus/Yaweh exclusively, or at least "above" all other gods.

Islam, on the other hand, is the Abrahamic religion that asserts that there is only one god.

And your question is basically the famous "problem of evil."


I Googled it, 1st John chapter 5 says that God is light, and in Him there is no darkness. My phrasing was off. I find it very interesting that you pointed out that the Bible implies the existence of other gods. I've clearly got more reading to do. I did not know about the famous "problem of evil". Does that mean I can't turn a profit/Prophet for arriving at that theory independently?

/This is fun
 
2012-11-22 03:03:58 AM

Chaide: People are more concerned with the label, than they are the thoughts behind them.


Yet if we don't understand the words being used then we end up with dueling strawman competitions. At this point, in every single real life conversation I have that involves me saying I'm an atheist (and no I don't seek these discussions out, but rather at some points in political discussions the religious bring these things up) I have to stop and set definitions for our discussions. Without them I end up being told I believe all sorts of shiat that I don't, simply because they don't know wtf an atheist is.

Now, the average person I talk to then corrects me and says "no, you're actually an agnostic" so you might say 'hey smacks, why don't you just tell people you are agnostic'? Well, because then the other 30% of people who do know what words mean would think I'm something I"m not. If I have to explain either way, I might as well do so correctly, no?

And with that I've really got to go to bed. Good night all, and god bless (pending existence of said god)
 
2012-11-22 03:04:18 AM
KrispyKritter:
Those folks have faith in that scientific theory.

No, no they do not. That have confidence in a theory based on the ability of that theory to withstand scrutiny and testing.

A scientific theory that is man made opinion but not proven fact.

Oh, Jesus. Where to even start on this that doesn't begin with "Damn, you're an idiot!"? No, a theory is not an opinion. You really ought to learn what a theory is before you make an even bigger ass out of yourself.
 
2012-11-22 03:04:38 AM

Smackledorfer: eanwhile, some of us actually know what "atheist" means.


And some of us know that one can be agnostic and not atheist.
 
2012-11-22 03:04:47 AM

Smackledorfer:

Maybe not at the end of the day, but certainly at the end of my days.

/I'm kinda hoping I'm wrong about no god, or at least wrong about no afterlife.


That statement right there explains why so much of the world holds some type of religious belief in the afterlife. Because it is painful and uncomfortable for us to think that our loved ones and ourselves cease to exist at the moment of death. It's not nice to think about this as being the only life we get, and when we die we fade into nothingness. The mind has a hard time wrapping it's self around the concept of "nothingness". It's like trying to imagine what life was like pre-birth.

We don't like to think that we will never see our friends and family again when we all die, it's much nicer and more pleasant to imagine that we all live forever in some type of magical place with all the people we've ever loved surrounding us. It doesn't make any sense at all to believe this way, and there certainly isn't any evidence to back it up, but it sure makes us feel better. We don't have to be as scared of death if we don't believe it's truly the end. That's all religious dogma really is, a way of making us feel better about death. If we go on for all eternity after we shuffle off the mortal coil, then there is nothing to fear and we are no longer uncomfortable. Problem solved.

This is a simple explanation that I believe holds true for the afterlife dogma of all religions.
 
2012-11-22 03:05:17 AM

Arthur Jumbles: The creationist's premise is that unless you know everything you can't be sure that anything is true unless someone who knows everything tells you so.

As such, since I don't know everything I can't be sure that God exists unless It tells me so Itself. I assume the creationist believes that God communicates with people through the Bible. However, given the creationist's premise that we can't be sure of anything without knowing everything there is no way for us to know whether the Bible is actually the Word of God.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-11-22 03:05:47 AM
They can try being Covert-Christianstm.
 
2012-11-22 03:06:25 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: And some of us know that one can be agnostic and not atheist.


I guess I read more into your early statement then you meant to say. I withdraw my snark.

ThrobblefootSpectre: We are the ones looking on with bemusement at both the religious and the atheists.

 
2012-11-22 03:06:32 AM

ThrobblefootSpectre: Smackledorfer: eanwhile, some of us actually know what "atheist" means.

And some of us know that one can be agnostic and not atheist.


Of course.

You could be an agnostic theist. They're not all that rare.
 
2012-11-22 03:07:19 AM

Kittypie070: Whoa-K, now I know for a stone cold FACT you been freebasing the Cheetos. LOLz.


I have never smoked, inhaled, ingested, or injected any drugs in my life, because freedom does not require any of those things. Freedom is all around you. Feel the freedom. Freedom is free.

Kittypie070: Would you like to mainline a few of my hallucinogenic jellybeans?

They're Reaganistic.


My parents told me never to take candy from liberals.
 
2012-11-22 03:08:04 AM

Smackledorfer:
Good night all, and god bless (pending existence of said god)


That sums things up quite nicely!

But I do understand where you're coming from. I suppose I just like to err on the side of ambiguity, for what I consider one of the most ambiguous topics imaginable.
 
2012-11-22 03:08:18 AM
And just how did Satan revolt against God? Angels do not possess free will. Only humans have been given that gift/burden by God.

Exactly. Growing up Catholic, I was always taught that Satan was jealous that only humans had free will, where angels were not granted that gift. So how did the revolution come about?
 
2012-11-22 03:09:41 AM

KrispyKritter: Faith is a big word, so is theory.


Big words tend to have meanings, of which you apparently aren't aware
 
2012-11-22 03:09:55 AM

NicoFinn: Arthur Jumbles: The creationist's premise is that unless you know everything you can't be sure that anything is true unless someone who knows everything tells you so.

As such, since I don't know everything I can't be sure that God exists unless It tells me so Itself. I assume the creationist believes that God communicates with people through the Bible. However, given the creationist's premise that we can't be sure of anything without knowing everything there is no way for us to know whether the Bible is actually the Word of God.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 476x293]


That other guy is a lying bastard.
 
2012-11-22 03:10:07 AM

DisregardTheFollowing: Exactly. Growing up Catholic, I was always taught that Satan was jealous that only humans had free will, where angels were not granted that gift. So how did the revolution come about?


obviously god made him do it. so the question then becomes "why?"
 
2012-11-22 03:11:24 AM
A better argument for theists is with faith rather than proof, otherwise the debate is lost.

By using examples of faith in everyday things, such as the value of money, in people to do right, and in one's self to accomplish something, the opponent can then be manipulated to understand one's faith in other things they cannot prove such as the creator of all things.

i'm an atheist and devil's advocate, but logic is hard to fight.
 
2012-11-22 03:13:13 AM

log_jammin: DisregardTheFollowing: Exactly. Growing up Catholic, I was always taught that Satan was jealous that only humans had free will, where angels were not granted that gift. So how did the revolution come about?

obviously god made him do it. so the question then becomes "why?"


fc05.deviantart.net
 
HBK
2012-11-22 03:13:14 AM

gremlin1: These things drive me crazy. I am not an atheist but I agree with their right to not believe in God.
However I believe in God (not organized religion)and have no trouble believing in science. I find the idea of a 9000 year old Earth ridiculous and I believe God set off the Big Bang and then sat back to see how it goes.


I went to Catholic school. We had a PhD. AP biology teacher. He told us on the first day of class "the more I learn about biology, the more certain I am that God exists." He went on to discuss the intricacies of the human eye and how unlikely it is that it would form without some guidance. It was my first experience with the "watch in the sea" hypothetical philosophers argue about.

We learned all about evolution, etc. And it was all the same biology that you would learn at a state school. Catholics get a bad rap for the child rapes, but they are pro-science and pro-evolution, and shouldn't be lumped together with the other Christians who refuse to believe in science.
 
2012-11-22 03:14:38 AM

muck1969: but logic is hard to fight.


libertarians tend to do very well at it.
 
HBK
2012-11-22 03:17:28 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: muck1969: but logic is hard to fight.

libertarians tend to do very well at it.


example?
 
2012-11-22 03:17:43 AM

eraser8: You could be an agnostic theist. They're not all that rare.


Yes, probably more common than hard theists.
 
2012-11-22 03:18:56 AM

HBK: The All-Powerful Atheismo: muck1969: but logic is hard to fight.

libertarians tend to do very well at it.

example?


RON PAUL!
 
2012-11-22 03:19:23 AM

HBK: The All-Powerful Atheismo: muck1969: but logic is hard to fight.

libertarians tend to do very well at it.

example?


catmacros.files.wordpress.com

This is one example of how they do it.
 
2012-11-22 03:19:24 AM
This is very, very simple. Only people write books. People that claim to speak or write or interpret the word of god are lying to you. Only people write books. It's that simple. Of course I'm using reason, which is completely ineffective against faith. DAMN THESE POWERLESS FACTS!!!!
 
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