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(Talking Points Memo)   Intent on losing his job as Speaker, Boehner goes to the well one last time: Obamacare must go as part of any fiscal cliff deal   (livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 324
    More: Dumbass, obamacare, debt negotiation, health law, Boehner, Ways and Means Committee  
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6201 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Nov 2012 at 2:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-21 06:12:37 PM

MmmmBacon: Weaver95: do these guys understand that they LOST the election? and not by a tiny margin either - they got a major blow out on almost all fronts. people who lose that badly shouldn't be acting as if they're running the show.

Delusion is a wonderful thing, I suppose.

I think this is all pandering for the base now, trying to show them that, by Golly, the GOP won't take an ass-kicking sitting down! Why, they'll stand right back up and get punched in the jaw again, and again, and again, until those nasty Dems get tired and walk away!

In the end, if no deal is done before Dec. 31st, the GOP takes the blame. And we will remind voters of this over, and over, and over again in the run-up to 2014 mid-term elections. "Who caused your taxes to go up, John and Jane Everyman? Why, it was the GOP, who refused to sit down and actually negotiate a proper deal to prevent a fiscal meltdown. But hey, at least the Bush Tax Cuts expired, so there's that."


It's like Rocky Balboa going against Clubber Lang, getting his snot beaten out. His only hope is that Clubber wears out his glove and loses on a technicality.
 
2012-11-21 06:13:54 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Obama is using his reelection to say that people want Obamacare. Boehner is just using the fact that Republicans kept the House as proof that they dont.


The Republicans lost the popular vote for the House. They want to keep Obamacare.
 
2012-11-21 06:16:03 PM

mrshowrules: I think Obama's best strategy right now is let all the tax cuts expire and veto any thing he doesn't like from the GOP in the new year. Let the GOP constituents feel the pain at this point. He should no longer try and protect them from themselves. Worse case scenario is you get a small recession and unemployment rises to 9%.


Why would unemployment go up? Once the Bush Tax Cuts expire, the treasury will fuel up with some revenues and a lot of new work can get done. Things that have already passed and are just awaiting funding. The GOP in Congress can't stop those since they're already passed. Once those jobs are in motion, the economy and employment numbers will do well.
 
2012-11-21 06:19:46 PM

dericwater: mrshowrules: I think Obama's best strategy right now is let all the tax cuts expire and veto any thing he doesn't like from the GOP in the new year. Let the GOP constituents feel the pain at this point. He should no longer try and protect them from themselves. Worse case scenario is you get a small recession and unemployment rises to 9%.

Why would unemployment go up? Once the Bush Tax Cuts expire, the treasury will fuel up with some revenues and a lot of new work can get done. Things that have already passed and are just awaiting funding. The GOP in Congress can't stop those since they're already passed. Once those jobs are in motion, the economy and employment numbers will do well.


The 'cliff', as they call it, would be painful on everyone, but it would light a nuclear-grade fire under the House to start 'doing' something.

I do believe that we're going to go right over the cliff. Just because the GOP is that 'deaf' to anyone and anything outside of the echo chamber. And Obama is going to simply 'let' them do it, too. It'd be worse for everyone if he caves in to them on this and I think the last 4 years has taught him that.
 
2012-11-21 06:25:58 PM
None of which the Senate will agree to so let's just waste more time. It's like all the ridiculous votes the House took on the Ryan budget plan.
 
2012-11-21 06:27:41 PM

tomcatadam: Dear GOP: You start with a high bid, and aim for a bit lower by making small concessions.

You don't increase your demands. Holy shiat.


Boehner wants to go all in, holding a pair of 8's. Except his all-in chips equal to a third of Obama's pile. Obama can play the game all night.
 
2012-11-21 06:28:27 PM
The insurance lobby has bought and paid for Boehner. They paid him to keep farking that chicken. He can't stop even if he desperately wants to.
 
2012-11-21 06:30:29 PM

Virtual Pariah: Now, I need to understand this.

If we go over the cliff, what does that entail exactly?

Return to Clinton era tax rates and Defense Sequestration?

If that's all, I may be ok with that.


Sequestration is all over the map, but yes, a big bulk of that will be cut from DoD. And really, the "fiscal cliff" is more like a "fiscal slope". 90% of us will feel no ill effects.
 
2012-11-21 06:30:54 PM

Mentat: randomjsa: So you're still under this delusion that ObamaCare is some wonderful, popular, thing and that its political suicide to be so against it?

Please keep thinking that and while you're at it remove the giant middle finger from the faces of the majority of Americans who remain against ObamaCare.

ObamaCare was passed into law. It survived a Supreme Court challenge. Campaigning on repealing ObamaCare failed miserably. Billionaire business owners firing people for phantom ObamaCare costs have only hurt their own image.

So if the Republicans want to charge that line again, I encourage them to do so. We'll write an epic poem for them.


They really dont have a choice. The insurance industry lobby wants its money's worth.
 
2012-11-21 06:38:59 PM

quickdraw: The insurance lobby has bought and paid for Boehner. They paid him to keep farking that chicken. He can't stop even if he desperately wants to.


The insurance company benefitted from Obamacare more than anyone else, including the citizens. Basically, obamacare requires people to get insurance. How can that hurt the insurance companies? They're basically going to add 30-90 million more customers.
 
2012-11-21 06:43:44 PM

LordJiro: These farktards DO realize that most Americans will blame THEM, not Obama, if we go over the fiscal cliff, right?


And apparently don't realize, like with the budget crisis last year, that they would look like freaking heroes if they compromised on this.

60% of the American public wants ACA, and most of the rest are at best indifferent. Very few people are actively opposed. If the Republicans were to compromise on ACA and get what few concessions out of the administrations they can for their special interests (the insurance companies), they would look like geniuses; but more importantly in the long term, they will have great leverage for the mid-term elections. There won't be anything the Democrats can hold against them (at least in re the ACA thing) when it comes to that, and they'll be able to hold themselves up as giving the American public affordable healthcare.

I doubt they'll figure it out in time, and instead they'll cut their throats again, like they did with the budget; and they'll have only themselves to blame. Again.
 
2012-11-21 06:51:10 PM

fluffy2097: Mentat: So if the Republicans want to charge that line again, I encourage them to do so. We'll write an epic poem for them.

Here lies the GOP, they are now dead.
Thought with their ass, instead of their head.


Burma Shave
 
2012-11-21 07:07:07 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: at a time when our national debt already exceeds the size of our country's entire economy. We can't afford it,

I don't believe the guy who voted in favor of two tax cuts, two wars, and medicare part D has any credibility when it comes to concern over the debt.


Exactly, cut the wars. Keep the healthcare.
 
2012-11-21 07:13:01 PM
Has anyone pointed out that repealing Obamacare will cost money?
 
2012-11-21 07:20:53 PM

Yakk: And this is where Obama says that the public option is back on the table to save money and point out the savings for medicare. This is a negotiation people, get rough!


That might work. I use that tactic with my kids on a regular basis.
Kid: Let me have 2 hours on computer games.
Me: You know the rule is 1 hour on computer games.
Kid: Let me have 2 hours.
Me: Make it 45 minutes.
Kid: That's not fair! Let me have 2 hours. Everybody at school gets 2 hours! If you loved me, you'd let me play 2 hours.
Me: Make it 30 minutes.
Kid: No, let me play video games for 1 hour, please.
Me: Oh, all right. I'll let you play for an hour because I'm generous and soft-hearted.
Kid: sigh
 
2012-11-21 07:25:42 PM

TV's Vinnie: These assheads really just cannot STAND the idea of people not being condemned to a gruesome death because their condition was deemed "pre-existing".


You could have stopped at the word "death".
Think about it.
They love going to war--that is, serving up gruesome death via modern weapons of war.
They hate social safety nets--so go ahead and have a gruesome death by starvation or exposure or disease if you're poor.
They love petro-energy. Hey, go look up "coal miner's pneumoconiosis"--yay, gruesome death for hard workers too!

B.b.but...they are pro-life! Against gruesome death by abortion doctor!
Yes, yes...but then what will the baby grow up to do? Maybe be an unwanted, unsupportable addition to a poor family?
Maybe a laborer in a hazardous industry? Maybe join the military to get away from unloving parents? Yeah, they're playing the long game.
 
2012-11-21 07:31:33 PM

dericwater: mrshowrules: I think Obama's best strategy right now is let all the tax cuts expire and veto any thing he doesn't like from the GOP in the new year. Let the GOP constituents feel the pain at this point. He should no longer try and protect them from themselves. Worse case scenario is you get a small recession and unemployment rises to 9%.

Why would unemployment go up? Once the Bush Tax Cuts expire, the treasury will fuel up with some revenues and a lot of new work can get done. Things that have already passed and are just awaiting funding. The GOP in Congress can't stop those since they're already passed. Once those jobs are in motion, the economy and employment numbers will do well.


I'm not sure unemployment would go up significantly but if it does, it won't be by much. Consumer confidence/demand would take a small hit but would recover quickly IMHO. Immediately after the tax cuts expire, Obama can ask Congress for a renewal of tax cuts for those making under $250K.
 
2012-11-21 07:37:36 PM

CPennypacker: REPUBLICANS HAVE WASTED 50 MILLION DOLLARS OF OUR MONEY TRYING TO REPEAL A BILL THAT IS PAID FOR AND GIVES AMERICANS HEALTHCARE

Domestic terrorists the lot of them.


THIS THIS THIS
 
2012-11-21 07:44:05 PM

Notabunny: cameroncrazy1984: randomjsa: So you're still under this delusion that ObamaCare is some wonderful, popular, thing and that its political suicide to be so against it

Yeah, it's amazing that we think so, when only 33% of Americans are for repealing it.

How weird is that?

You know what else the right-wing media isn't telling the "fiscally responsible" Teabaggers?

Believe it or not, the federal deficit has fallen faster over the past three years than it has in any such stretch since demobilization from World War II.

[img.photobucket.com image 600x369] 

/threadjack over


Your point is not threadjacking. It is valid and highly relevant to the discussion on whether we can afford healthcare.
 
2012-11-21 07:47:24 PM

Lunaville: Yakk: And this is where Obama says that the public option is back on the table to save money and point out the savings for medicare. This is a negotiation people, get rough!

That might work. I use that tactic with my kids on a regular basis.
Kid: Let me have 2 hours on computer games.
Me: You know the rule is 1 hour on computer games.
Kid: Let me have 2 hours.
Me: Make it 45 minutes.
Kid: That's not fair! Let me have 2 hours. Everybody at school gets 2 hours! If you loved me, you'd let me play 2 hours.
Me: Make it 30 minutes.
Kid: No, let me play video games for 1 hour, please.
Me: Oh, all right. I'll let you play for an hour because I'm generous and soft-hearted. Too late for that, want to try for 15?
Kid: sigh


If only my parents had been nice, like you.
 
2012-11-21 07:54:55 PM
Boehner: What have I to fear?
Obama: The Democrats. It's what we call ourselves, sort of like a party. "America's Re-elected Executive" type thing.
Boehner: Yes, I've met them.
Obama: Yeah. Takes us a while to get any traction, I'll give you that one but, let's do a head count here: 332 electoral college votes in 27 states, a candidate who couldn't get elected with four BILLION dollars worth of SuperPAC money on his side, the loss of eight seats in the House of Representatives, a Senate that was yours to lose until your nominees decided to turn women into brood-mares for the State, 64 MILLION people of a 61% turnout voting for the Democrat, and you, big fella, you've managed to piss off every single one of them.
Boehner: That was the plan.
Obama: Not a great plan. When the voters blame, and they will, they'll blame Republicans.
Boehner: I have a filibuster.
Obama: We have a Biden.
Boehner: I thought the beast had wandered off.
Obama: You're missing the point. There's no throne. There is no version of this where you come out on top. Maybe the fiscal cliff comes, and maybe it's too much for us, but it's all on you. Because if we can't protect the country, you can be damned well sure we'll avenge it.
 
2012-11-21 08:12:49 PM
How in the hell would this cause him to lose his job as Speaker? He's employed as chief idiot wrangler and the idiots get to choose who their wrangler is. Acting like an intransigent dickhead is only going to win him votes with them. The only way it would hurt him is if he manages to piss off enough people in his district to lose in the general... to a Democrat... in a district where he's never won by less than 20 points.
 
2012-11-21 08:18:30 PM

NateGrey: [static3.businessinsider.com image 612x612]

Miss me yet?


NO
 
2012-11-21 08:38:18 PM

antidisestablishmentarianism: Keep f*cking that chicken [4.bp.blogspot.com image 300x300]


Can we please be done with the chicken meme? There can't possibly be a chicken left alive within 100 miles of DC.

//or dead, for that matter
/lots of turkeys, though
 
2012-11-21 09:18:15 PM

peasandcarrots: Boehner: What have I to fear?
Obama: The Democrats. It's what we call ourselves, sort of like a party. "America's Re-elected Executive" type thing.
Boehner: Yes, I've met them.
Obama: Yeah. Takes us a while to get any traction, I'll give you that one but, let's do a head count here: 332 electoral college votes in 27 states, a candidate who couldn't get elected with four BILLION dollars worth of SuperPAC money on his side, the loss of eight seats in the House of Representatives, a Senate that was yours to lose until your nominees decided to turn women into brood-mares for the State, 64 MILLION people of a 61% turnout voting for the Democrat, and you, big fella, you've managed to piss off every single one of them.
Boehner: That was the plan.
Obama: Not a great plan. When the voters blame, and they will, they'll blame Republicans.
Boehner: I have a filibuster.
Obama: We have a Biden.
Boehner: I thought the beast had wandered off.
Obama: You're missing the point. There's no throne. There is no version of this where you come out on top. Maybe the fiscal cliff comes, and maybe it's too much for us, but it's all on you. Because if we can't protect the country, you can be damned well sure we'll avenge it.


Do you perchance publish a regular newsletter?
 
2012-11-21 09:34:10 PM
"Subby thinks terrible leadership is a reason for us to lose power. Bwahahahah!"

Signed - Boehner, Pelosi, Reid, and Dix
 
2012-11-21 10:10:24 PM

Weaver95: do these guys understand that they LOST the election? and not by a tiny margin either - they got a major blow out on almost all fronts. people who lose that badly shouldn't be acting as if they're running the show.


A 1.7 million swing in the popular vote is a very tiny margin.
 
2012-11-21 10:40:38 PM
So Obama wants double the tax hikes and Boehner wants to gut healthcare. Gridlock as usual, or negotiating tactics?

Part of me really really wants to give the Dem's everything they want and stand back and watch. If it works, great news for all of us. If it doesn't, see ya later.

No more pointing fingers......whining that the promised land is just a few more tax hikes, just a little more social spending, just a few defense cuts away....blah blah blah.

The Dem's won, fair and square. Now give them everything they ask for, as fast as you can. And be very vocal about doing it.
 
2012-11-21 10:48:02 PM
60% of the American public wants ACA, and most of the rest are at best indifferent.

Most of the people who oppose it don't have any idea what it actually does, they just oppose it because it has "Obama" in the name their party gave it and they were told it was bad. If you tell people the individual terms of it, seems almost everyone is in favor of it.

And as I keep asking those who scream about being forced to buy insurance;

Are you angry because you're being forced to buy something you don't want,
Or because you're being forced to buy something you have and want to keep?
 
2012-11-21 10:54:03 PM

ghare: dumbobruni: Virtual Pariah: Now, I need to understand this.

If we go over the cliff, what does that entail exactly?

Return to Clinton era tax rates and Defense Sequestration?

If that's all, I may be ok with that.

clinton era tax rates return
2% payroll tax cuts eliminated
unemployment benefit extensions eliminated
AMT revises back to 2000 levels
$110 billion in annual spending cuts, split between defense and non-defense, plus 25% decline in Medicare disbursements.
Pell grants farked

I(t'll get fixed with the next Congress. I'm not too worried about it. Of course there's always a chance that the lame-duck Congress will put country before party and fix it.


Look, a flying pig!
 
2012-11-21 11:29:07 PM

Weaver95: hubiestubert: Hey, if you know you're going down, at least you can go swinging...

[images1.wikia.nocookie.net image 850x504]

Khan Noonien Singh (R). Alpha Ceti V


Well Khan could never be president of Alpha Ceti V, he was born on Earth... but he might have a fake ID chit. Lets call space sheriff Arapiao.
 
2012-11-22 12:09:32 AM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: And as I keep asking those who scream about being forced to buy insurance;

Are you angry because you're being forced to buy something you don't want,
Or because you're being forced to buy something you have and want to keep?


No, I'm angry that the government can force me to buy anythng.
 
2012-11-22 12:16:34 AM
Boner is a really slow learner. I just hope he doesn't wreck the US economy while he wises up. He's an embarassment to Oompa Loompas everywhere.
 
2012-11-22 12:29:09 AM

NateGrey: [static3.businessinsider.com image 612x612]

Miss me yet?


no.
 
2012-11-22 12:40:29 AM

mrshowrules: I think Obama's best strategy right now is let all the tax cuts expire and veto any thing he doesn't like from the GOP in the new year. Let the GOP constituents feel the pain at this point. He should no longer try and protect them from themselves. Worse case scenario is you get a small recession and unemployment rises to 9%.


Any chance he can do an executive order for the 98%?
 
2012-11-22 12:53:30 AM

bulldg4life: Has anyone pointed out that repealing Obamacare will cost money?


No. Or yes. Maybe.

The problem is, the explanation why it reduces the deficit doesn't fit into a bumper sticker. All Republicans have to say is IT INCREASES FEDERAL SPENDING which is true, but actually is a net savings because of increased revenue as well as a lower projected rate of increase over a decade and transfers of Medicare BUT OBAMA IS TAKING YER $800 BILLION FROM MEDICARE to which you spend a few more minutes explaining increased efficiencies and no benefits or services will be reduced and blah blah.

Every Republican attack can be countered, it just takes a few hundred words for each one.
 
2012-11-22 12:54:43 AM

cchris_39: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: And as I keep asking those who scream about being forced to buy insurance;

Are you angry because you're being forced to buy something you don't want,
Or because you're being forced to buy something you have and want to keep?

No, I'm angry that the government can force me to buy anythng.


You're not being forced to do anything, chief.
 
2012-11-22 01:14:18 AM

Popcorn Johnny: Weaver95: do these guys understand that they LOST the election? and not by a tiny margin either - they got a major blow out on almost all fronts. people who lose that badly shouldn't be acting as if they're running the show.

A 1.7 million swing in the popular vote is a very tiny margin.


This is why you are losers. Because you read, watch and believe the propaganda instead of doing investigation.

So far, the official totals are:
Obama: 64,390,077
Romney: 60,221,499
I'll even do the math for you: 4,168,578

A 6.9% lead.

I'll leave it to the serious student to find the source.
 
2012-11-22 01:22:15 AM
It's not really his fault. Corporate pockets are deep, and it's hard to see the real world for so far down in them.
 
2012-11-22 01:36:25 AM

Githerax: This is why you are losers. Because you read, watch and believe the propaganda instead of doing investigation.

So far, the official totals are:
Obama: 64,390,077
Romney: 60,221,499
I'll even do the math for you: 4,168,578

A 6.9% lead.

I'll leave it to the serious student to find the source.



Where did I say I was a Republican, you ignorant little twit? Also, you don't seem to have any idea what a swing means, do you? Even if we go with your numbers, which aren't correct by the way, the swing is only a little over 2 million votes.

Do the world a favor and go back to 4chan.
 
2012-11-22 01:40:25 AM

NateGrey: Republicans are economic terrorists.


Lest we forget Iraq and their circling the wagons of defending torture committed by the state terrorist organization the CIA.
 
2012-11-22 01:49:41 AM

Grand_Moff_Joseph: The voters hit the GOP on their noses with a newspaper, but I guess that didn't work as well as they thought it did. Maybe it's time to rub their noses in their own derp piles.


Newspaper: Meh
Nose-rubbing: Kinda
Hard kick in the ribs: Message sent
 
2012-11-22 02:31:02 AM
Over the past couple of years, I have noted there are essentially three major routes to repeal of the president's law: the courts, the presidential election process and the congressional oversight process. With two of those three routes having come up short, the third and final one becomes more important than ever.

Perhaps this means the American people have spoken and you should leave it alone.
 
2012-11-22 03:10:03 AM

UseLessHuman: It's not really his fault. Corporate pockets are deep, and it's hard to see the real world for so far down in them.


Plus, 0bummer shouldn't have scheduled the meeting so late in the day. I mean, 10AM? Shiat, by then Representative Drunky McCriesalot is already 9 whiskey sours into his day. Of course, he's going to say something foolish.
 
2012-11-22 03:28:33 AM

rufus-t-firefly: Boehner's holding the ACA hostage...but he REALLY sucks at it.

[i48.photobucket.com image 600x442]


Why is that lady holding a mini scimitar. And why is she brandishing it so daintily?
 
2012-11-22 04:27:57 AM
I heard that the tax increases on the rich will only pay for an additional 8 days per yr of government spending. Is this true? If so, and if no one is willing to make meaningful spending cuts, then we're farked. Subby's headline is right, but that won't help our debt crisis.
 
2012-11-22 04:54:51 AM
Six pages of buthurt from the left. Love it!
 
2012-11-22 06:15:27 AM
Add "Butthurt" to the list of terms "conservatives" don't know the meaning of...
 
2012-11-22 06:17:54 AM

keylock71: Add "Butthurt" to the list of terms "conservatives" don't know the meaning of...


Also "six" and "pages".
 
2012-11-22 07:13:05 AM

dehehn: [i935.photobucket.com image 394x295]
The United States doesn't negotiate with terrorists.


lol
 
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