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(ZDNet)   Refusing to wear a RFID-chipped badge? That's an expulsion   (zdnet.com) divider line 175
    More: Asinine, RFID, Rutherford Institute, tenth grade, surveillance state, badges, bar codes  
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7492 clicks; posted to Geek » on 21 Nov 2012 at 9:25 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-11-21 08:18:45 PM
So what i gather from this thread is that the slippery slope isn't a fallacy and there are plenty of folks begging for a jackboot on their throats
 
2012-11-21 09:19:00 PM

Raharu: DoBeDoBeDo: serial_crusher: This allows the school to track the student's location after leaving campus and for as long as the badge is on the student's person.

So they wired up the whole city of San Antonio, possibly the entire world, with those RFID readers or what? And people say Texas doesn't spend enough on the education budget.

It will be years before people stop confusing GPS and RFID. I know a doctor who thought they could track his dog anywhere on earth because he was micro-chipped.
^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

Most people have no clue how RFID works, from the chips, to the readers to the databases they access.


Next you'll tell me Helen Keller wasn't the little jewish girl in the attic.
 
2012-11-21 09:22:51 PM

Fano: So what i gather from this thread is that the slippery slope isn't a fallacy and there are plenty of folks begging for a jackboot on their throats


I'd agree. I think what's worse is people seem to be OK with forcing students to wear their ID. Why not just have it on you? In a wallet/pocket/book bag/purse whatever.
 
2012-11-21 09:34:06 PM
Blah...blah...blah. Until I got to this little gem, "links to their social security number". Got me to stop reading & into the "somebody done bad" mode.

No.

Bad programmer.

No cookie for you.

The phrase "unique system generated id" is the one that belongs there.
 
2012-11-21 09:50:56 PM
"This "smart" ID card will transmit location information of students to electronic readers which are installed throughout the campus. This is so that we always know where the students are in the building.

After all, parents, you expect school staff to always know where your children are during the school day."


Why? Aren't they in class? Look at their schedule - that's where they are. If they're not there, ask the teacher.

This has to have something to do with coveted attendance money.
 
2012-11-21 09:52:33 PM

rufus-t-firefly: NecoConeco: Here is a link to a more reputable source

Clickypops

From that link:

The family says they don't want their daughter wearing the badge for religious reasons.

Fark the other students - they can all burn in hell. But our precious snowflake should be able to point and laugh at them as they burn.

/yeah, a bit much
//but Christians persecuted in Texas?
///LOLOLOLOLOL


hang up the bigotry son
 
2012-11-21 10:39:17 PM

Fano: So what i gather from this thread is that the slippery slope isn't a fallacy and there are plenty of folks begging for a jackboot on their throats


THIS! This is how it happens, people. Our freedoms get nibbled away bit by bit for "Security" or "For the Children". Why not make them wear these badges? It's for our children! Even better, why not put GPS transmitters in the badges. That way you can know where your kids are at all times (for their safety, of course). But they might ditch the badge,so better stick the transmitter under the skin at birth, so we can find them if they're kidnapped.

I'm not religious, and don't consider myself a crank. I just think that we're heading towards a police state, where every citizen is tracked and has no privacy. If you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear, right?

As Benjamin Franklin said, he who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security
 
2012-11-21 10:58:17 PM

CujoQuarrel: Bossk'sSegway: What prevents students from putting the RFID badge in their locker and skipping school the next day? Would the system count the student as being in school?

You have it passed from friend to friend who are taking the same classes as you.


And the school still gets money because you're counted as "present." It's about money; any other benefits are serendipitous side effects.
 
2012-11-22 12:29:01 AM

Weaver95: how are kids supposed to learn to be fully functional adults in a 'free society'


static.prtst.net 

/THAT is exactly what they don't want
 
2012-11-22 12:56:08 AM

Mega Steve: As Benjamin Franklin said, he who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security


That's the worst bit. It's not even security, it's a guise of security. It's amazingly simple to thwart, doesn't actually protect anyone, and lulls the school staff into a false sense of control. "Oh, I don't need to take attendance anymore, all the lights on the screen are lit," before starting class. Not even a reason to check for the students. If they had these things when I was in school, I'd have definitely tried to see how hackable it was - create a few dozen duplicate students or whatever.

This sort of stuff could be useful if you wanted to have a two-factor credentials for the school's computing resources (a damn good idea actually), or maybe in it's most extreme form, as access control to unsupervised areas like restrooms while class is in session. As a way to reliably locate students like it's being advertised here? Plain stupid on the face of it. Even worse if someone is stupid enough to think it can tell them where student's aren't.
 
2012-11-22 01:06:57 AM
if my kids school tried this they get the badges back the 1st day with a note saying they don't have my ok to make my kid wear it and be tracked. The note would also state if they make my kid wear it again it would be sent back to school cut up.
 
2012-11-22 02:03:18 AM
Pretty sure you have no expectation of privacy in a public school.
 
2012-11-22 03:38:03 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.

" It is a direct violation of their Christian religious beliefs, as it bears a striking resemblance to Revelations 13: 16-18 warning of the Mark of the Beast."

What is wrong about the reasons? Those are her beliefs. Doesn't matter if she is right or wrong. We are supposed to have religious freedom right? So if she should not base her decision on her beliefs, what should she do... base them on someone else' beliefs?


Of course it matters. Take an extreme case where your "beliefs" make you do something illegal. Still illegal no matter how much you believe in it and how much freedom of speech you have (freedom of religion is something else entirely, btw).

My religious believes require me to drink beer for breakfast. I'm a public transportation driver, what are you going to do about it?

Also, the mark of the beast is patently and objectively stupid. So, there is that.
 
2012-11-22 04:34:42 AM
"What we're teaching kids is that they live in a total surveillance state and if they do not comply, they will be punished"

Said the headmaster.

Enjoy your `land of the free`

what a joke.
 
2012-11-22 08:09:17 AM

dready zim: "What we're teaching kids is that they live in a total surveillance state and if they do not comply, they will be punished"

Said the headmaster.

Enjoy your `land of the free`

what a joke.


louderthanwar.com

"Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again. Here. Here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up. Go back to bed, America. Here is American Gladiators. Here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their farking skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom. Here you go, America! You are free to do what we tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!"
 
2012-11-22 08:49:49 AM

Mega Steve: Fano: So what i gather from this thread is that the slippery slope isn't a fallacy and there are plenty of folks begging for a jackboot on their throats

THIS! This is how it happens, people. Our freedoms get nibbled away bit by bit for "Security" or "For the Children".


Slippery slopes are a logical fallacy.

However, we don't live on the planet Vulcan, so slippery slopes are a valid concern. I can point to numerous examples of actual slippery slopes, and the mechanisms that drive slippery slopes have been defined.
 
2012-11-22 09:08:02 AM

serial_crusher: This allows the school to track the student's location after leaving campus and for as long as the badge is on the student's person.

So they wired up the whole city of San Antonio, possibly the entire world, with those RFID readers or what? And people say Texas doesn't spend enough on the education budget.


I don't know who the people are who say that. I've never heard it here in SA. This place seems to have no qualms about education spending. I've never seen so many gorgeous, sparkling schools. My finance is a high school teacher here - starting pay for a teacher with zero experience is around $46K/year, up to around 59K. I don't know how that compares to other states - it's hardly executive pay, but certainly better than in my native Florida.
 
2012-11-22 09:16:29 AM

Izunbacol: My finance is a high school teacher here


Heh.
 
2012-11-22 09:56:16 AM

hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.

" It is a direct violation of their Christian religious beliefs, as it bears a striking resemblance to Revelations 13: 16-18 warning of the Mark of the Beast."


phhh super smart and chose the excuse with the most fanatics the assist them

frankly I would micro wave it for 30 seconds and color in a small part of the barcode
 
2012-11-22 12:37:54 PM

bullsballs: While minors are alloted certain rights, they do not enjoy all of the rights and freedoms of an adult.


Go look up the word "unalienable." Then, go read the Declaration of Independence. In fact, you don't even have to read the entire thing. Just the first sentence.
 
2012-11-22 12:46:01 PM

Honest Bender: bullsballs: While minors are alloted certain rights, they do not enjoy all of the rights and freedoms of an adult.

Go look up the word "unalienable." Then, go read the Declaration of Independence. In fact, you don't even have to read the entire thing. Just the first sentence.


Really? And how exactly does, "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." apply?
 
2012-11-22 04:50:23 PM

spentshells: hinten: Student makes all the right decision for all the wrong reasons.

" It is a direct violation of their Christian religious beliefs, as it bears a striking resemblance to Revelations 13: 16-18 warning of the Mark of the Beast."

phhh super smart and chose the excuse with the most fanatics the assist them

frankly I would micro wave it for 30 seconds and color in a small part of the barcode


This suggestion has appeared many times. No one seems to think about the consequences: a visit from a truancy officer.

The farking RFID badges are primarily for attendance-taking so the school can get paid.
 
2012-11-22 05:36:38 PM

Honest Bender: bullsballs: While minors are alloted certain rights, they do not enjoy all of the rights and freedoms of an adult.

Go look up the word "unalienable." Then, go read the Declaration of Independence. In fact, you don't even have to read the entire thing. Just the first sentence.


The better answer would be, see Employment Division, Department of Human Resources of Oregon v. Smith , 494 U.S. 872 (1990) (holding that religious beliefs do not trump neutral laws of general applicability.)

It doesn't really matter whether she is an adult or not, or if the full force of her Constitutional rights are in effect or not. The Constitution doesn't provide an exemption from laws that are neutrally and generally applied.

Also, get with the program. Of course it can be circumvented (as can any technology), but attendance 2.0 is hardly the end of the world.
 
2012-11-22 08:51:17 PM

Bhruic: dittybopper: You aren't required by law to attend work. If you have a problem with wearing an RFID, you can either work somewhere else, or just not work. School isn't like that. Schooling is *MANDATORY*, and very few people have the time and resources to home school their kids.

Homeschooling is legal in all 50 states. Therefore going to public school is not mandatory.


FTFY, and I'll even note that the status of what constitutes homeschooling DOES differ in all 50 states, and--ironically--one of the reasons that some state definitions functionally lock out "unschooling" and non-correspondence-schooling in general (or make it far more difficult than the dominionist correspondence-schools masquerading as "homeschooling") is in fact because of a dominionist correspondence-school lobby (called HSLDA) that tries to pass itself off as the be-all end-all of "homeschooling" lobbies (only really covering the dominionist correspondence-school industry, though, and explicitly NOT including inclusive homeschooling, unschooling, secular homeschooling for Exceptional Child Education/IDEA compliance situations unable to be met in the school system, or religious homeschooling done by non-Christian faith groups such as Moslems, neopagans, or followers of indigenous faith systems).

In general, homeschooling may be allowed, but in a number of states one has to join a homeschooling association to legally homeschool, and a whole lot of religious "homeschooling" is in fact (both de facto and de jure) a type of correspondence-schooling done as essentially a "home education extension" of a pre-existing religious private school--and anything outside of this setup tends to be very difficult in practice in a lot of states where HSLDA throws its weight around.

(Yes, there actually is a national alliance of inclusive homeschooling groups fighting to show that HSLDA isn't the only game in town--it's between this and knowing some folks who've had to do secular homeschooling (usually out of problems with IDEA compliance with a public school) that I'm aware of the issues of trying to homeschool outside of the "dominionist correspondence-school and social isolation" framework.)

A lot of states also have regulations that require parents to file paperwork every semester or every year stating that their child is in a homeschooling program for the kid to not be legally considered truant. (An interesting case here is in Wisconsin, which recently approved a bill requiring homeschooling parents to simply list the parents, kids that are being homeschooled, and what district they live in--with inclusive homeschool groups approving (among other things, this also means parents no longer have to formally withdraw kids from public school if homeschooling) and HSLDA going into Full Whargarbl Mode.)

Also, of note--states have a LOT of leeway on deciding what will be considered to be valid curricula for a homeschool program (yes, in many states, parents who aren't going through a correspondence-school program have to file teaching plans, etc. just like an actual teacher in a public or private school must do); even some dominionist correspondence-school curricula are starting to get very hairy eyeballs due to extreme educational insufficiency (ACE/School of Tomorrow was actually considered so bad in Kentucky for a while that kids only "educated" on that dominionist curricula were considered to be legally truant; Bill Gothards "Institute of Basic Life Principles" curricula is considered educationally insufficient in most states; the California state college system will not accept any student whose sole education in most school fields is from the "big four" of dominionist correspondence-school curricula and even has labeled the major group "accrediting" these programs as well as a number of dominionist private schools to be a frank accreditation mill, and so on). Unschooling-type homeschooling (which does not have a set curricula but uses a Montessori-esque "child-led" learning approach) and exceptional child home education especially seem to have issues in states requiring documentation of curricula used per semester.

(Of note--Texas is one of the more problematic states in this regard, in that most of the "homeschool" associations (in fact, just about all of them) are HSLDA-run and the public school system, much less private ones, are de facto controlled by dominionists friendly to dominionist correspondence-schooling and unfriendly to actual homeschooling.)

That said...

Let's just say that I'm actually a little surprised that the kid in question is in public schools at all--they, and their family, would seem to be the prime candidates for a private dominionist school or dominionist correspondence-course "homeschool"; the kid in question is being represented by the Rutherford Institute, one of four known dominionist "legal bullying groups" (the others being Alliance Defense Fund "Americans Defending Freedom", the Thomas More Legal Center, and the American Center for Law and Justice--the last named, in the typical dominionist attempt at trolling, to be confusingly similar in initials to the legitimate American Civil Liberties Union whilst portraying itself explicitly as the dominionist "parallel economy" "Christian alternative" to the ACLU).

All four groups can be best described as "Legal Trolls"--much like patent trolls will buy up a patent to extort money out of legit companies or how "Disability Lawyer Trolls" will deliberately go into businesses to sue the owners for not putting a handicapped stall in an exempt historic building, the four dominionist "legal troll" companies make their bread and butter by seeking out dominionists to deliberately raise a legal shiatstorm in the hopes that a pro-dominionist First Amendment precedent will be set.

Yes, it's not uncommon for dominionist activists working with these groups to do shiat like deliberately becoming a pharmacist in a chain that has a "must dispense or give to someone who will" rule for things like birth control; for dominionist kids to deliberately try to get themselves suspended or expelled so they can basically sue the school system for religious discrimination; try to get on school boards and in teaching to promote "intelligent design" and deliberately get themselves fired so as to launch a lawsuit (this boomeranged spectacularly in Kitzmiller vs. Dover, of note) and so on. (And yes, this case positively SCREAMS "Dominionist Legal Troll" here. Kid is in dominionist family (with apparently the short line to the oldest of the dominionist legal troll firms), deliberately gets herself expelled even when offered a non-RFID alternative, and is trying to get a "must kiss the Jesus Camper's ass" precedent.)
 
2012-11-23 04:36:44 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Badges? Badges? We don't need no stinkin' RFID badges!


Nothing remains to be said on the matter.
 
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